Wun Hung Lo

[Galenbo]

It was the governments willingness to throw money at these technologies in the name of defence.

Exactly. And their unwillingness to do the same for pure science. Thus the war was the driver for progress.

For pushing development, war is a really good situation.

-they can momentary put democracy completely aside
-they give the poor-winers some real poverty to the level they do not make noise anymore.
-they give the hipsters and the bourgeoisie a new goal in life: not belonging to the new-real-poor
-the proportional influence all kinds of people have is cut down, it becomes 1/0. Master or slave.
-population is reduced too. so there is a time when population can grow again, witch means economical growt numbers.

[Galenbo]

I'm pretty proud of myself - I didn't make any posts in the thread at all (except this one). 

your point being ? no one is told not to post, those who can't stomach the discussion are recomended to not read and contribute. No one has offended anyone, it's been more cordial than technical discussions that descend into flame wars fast.

Even when I say I'm proud of not getting into any more arguments here I get yelled at LOL! 

I do not see yelling.
You pretend to not post, I do not see a reason in that to be proud.
But you do post, so you lie or did not keep a promise, I do not see a reason in that to be proud.

But I am happy you are, and while I do not understand your quotes and/or I do not agree, I am happy you could type it down on this forum.

[Galenbo]

If I was running a country I would ban religion unless somebody could come and bring me solid scientific proof of their so-called God or gods.

I think so too, but imagine, me being the boss of a country, millions of people asking for attention, millions starting to question my ruling abilities, whining about their version of "fair", whining about what they call "work" or purchasing power... pfff... not again..

Who can install some distracting for these guys here? Do whatever you want but do something to keep them busy or attacking eatchother instead of me.
Call it religion, TV, football, whatever.

and give me some solid scientific proof that this "god" thing will help me :-)

[Zero999]

Cats never really belonged to anybody they choose who owns them or rather they choose who to befriend. When I lived in Italy the neighbour's son was a little shit and found this kitten which he decided was abandoned giving him the reason to bring it home. The kitten grew up to be a cat and never really liked them or their house so she would come over to us where we welcomed her and eventually she became pretty much our cat. She was extremely intelligent at first she didn't like it when we got cats of our own so we shooed her away and sprayed water at her. Then one day I came down into the garage and found her curled up with our cats. She went to run away thinking I would not want her there but I grabbed her and put her back down where she was and stroked her and soothed her and she stayed. She understood. She is the most intelligent cat I have ever known. She even worked out how to tell us she wanted her basket moving closer to the fire she would get in the basket and walk around in it and then jump out and walk over to the fireplace and now walk round in the circle. As soon as we move the basket she settled down in it. She outlived both the cats that we acquired as one was hit on the road and the other died in childbirth. The neighbour's son would come round and demand his cat Back and we would tell him it was nothing to do with us if the cat chose to come to our house and be in our garden. Eventually he gave up. Obviously we have since left and I've no idea what became of the cat despite temptation we did not take it with us as it would not have been practical at our new house and I have now since returned to the UK.

That's sad.

I'm sure that cat missed us though, in southern Italy they don't treat animals very well but then it doesn't help that the church teaches them that they don't have any soul, the church is responsible for a lot of things including war not just a Christian church all religion causes wars. Groups of people do naturally tend to oppose each other having formed clans or groupings of whatever size but religion creates hardened irrational reason to fight each other. If I was running a country I would ban religion unless somebody could come and bring me solid scientific proof of their so-called God or gods.

Religion in itself is not what causes wars. It's organised religion which is used to control people which is the man problem.

Banning religion has done much more harm than good in the past. Communist states such as North Korea, USSR and China banned religion and look at what happened there: millions of deaths (much more than the Nazis) and totalitarianism.

Freedom of religion is essential for a free society. Ideally the state should neither encourage nor discourage region or promote one religion over another. All religions should have to prove they're non-profit making organisations or pay the same level of tax as any other business.

[AF6LJ]

If I was running a country I would ban religion unless somebody could come and bring me solid scientific proof of their so-called God or gods.

You're just itching for a reason to lock this thread. 
 

Well as we are having an adult debate for once hopefully nobody is going to take offence. I'm not singling out any particular religion I would just ban all of them. I have already lost enough of my life to religion through having to attend church and the bigotry of other people just to keep my grandmother happy. It was only when I was working long hours and just oversleeping on a Sunday that she stopped forcing me to go to church despite being an adult of course. She was more worried about what other people thought than what I wanted. Jehovah witnesses do not exactly have a whale of a time when they come to see me. I don't tell them to get lost I engage with them to a point where they get lost themselves because they are simply indoctrinated and have memorised things to say and standard replies to standard questions and responses. I don't have standard replies and standard questions and they quickly go because they can't handle me.

Unfortunately for you and most others who are caught up in the man made institutions that claim they are the middlemen for GOD the experience being negative is the norm rather than the exception. Thank GOD that middleman is not a requirement to attain spiritual awareness, enlightenment, and communion with GOD.

[zapta]

If I was running a country I would ban religion unless somebody could come and bring me solid scientific proof of their so-called God or gods.

This will make you a ruler rather than a leader.

[gildasd]

I hate vehemently people on both sides that oppose religion and science.

When you read Genesis, for example, you are not getting history or science, but 6000 years of how to divide a week and/or how to manage a project. To my own surprise, quite a lot is usefull and still valid today IF not taken litteraly. If millennia old religious book are used this way for the good of all, even as a staunch atheist, I don't see a problem.
Science should be taken a such. Cold hard truths. It uses the scientific method that many a hard core Jesuit had no problem mixing with his faith. If they can, why can't an internet commenter? Lack of education I think.
As for faith, if you have it, great for you, don't bore me with it. If you don't, great for you, don't bore me with it.

[AF6LJ]

If I was running a country I would ban religion unless somebody could come and bring me solid scientific proof of their so-called God or gods.

This will make you a ruler rather than a leader.

Unfortunately every free society drifts toward a dictatorship in one form or another.

[AF6LJ]

I hate vehemently people on both sides that oppose religion and science.

When you read Genesis, for example, you are not getting history or science, but 6000 years of how to divide a week and/or how to manage a project. To my own surprise, quite a lot is usefull and still valid today IF not taken litteraly. If millennia old religious book are used this way for the good of all, even as a staunch atheist, I don't see a problem.
Science should be taken a such. Cold hard truths. It uses the scientific method that many a hard core Jesuit had no problem mixing with his faith. If they can, why can't an internet commenter? Lack of education I think.
As for faith, if you have it, great for you, don't bore me with it. If you don't, great for you, don't bore me with it.

I think also you are getting an oversimplified view of possible events. There is a section in the book of Daniel that sounds like a description of the aftermath of an atomic bombing.
The other thing...
Old Testament dietary law is actually fairly sound advice given the time and the lack of knowledge of nutrition and food safety.

One's belief in anything science, atheism or any given god is a religion. The belief in mathematics's ability to explain all of the world around us is a religion, the same with belief in one's self.

The operative word is Belief. 

[zapta]

I believe that this thread, while still staying very civil, is getting too close to locking territory.

[ez24]

I believe that this thread, while still staying very civil, is getting too close to locking territory.

It was fun while it lasted.

[AF6LJ]

I believe that this thread, while still staying very civil, is getting too close to locking territory.

It was fun while it lasted.

Indeed it was...
Did you get my PM??

[zapta]

I believe that this thread, while still staying very civil, is getting too close to locking territory.

It was fun while it lasted.

Same here, I enjoy reading it, and I appreciate the civil conduct.  Mentioning religion tends to push the wrong buttons with Management.

[tautech]

I believe that this thread, while still staying very civil, is getting too close to locking territory.

It was fun while it lasted.

Same here, I enjoy reading it, and I appreciate the civil conduct.  Mentioning religion tends to push the wrong buttons with Management.

The laugh is Simon started it. 

The clock is ticking........
Wil he? won't he?
Dave?
Seppy?

Who's the other Mod we barely/rarely see these days?

[Simon]

My goodness we were being so adult for once I forgot the rules that we had to put in place for the children 

[AF6LJ]

My goodness we were being so adult for once I forgot the rules that we had to put in place for the children 

There are a number of us who are perfectly capable of acting grown up, even on a bad day

[AF6LJ]

I believe that this thread, while still staying very civil, is getting too close to locking territory.

It was fun while it lasted.

Same here, I enjoy reading it, and I appreciate the civil conduct.  Mentioning religion tends to push the wrong buttons with Management.

The laugh is Simon started it. 

The clock is ticking........
Wil he? won't he?
Dave?
Seppy?

Who's the other Mod we barely/rarely see these days?

In a forum I use to post on the operative phrase was In Before Thread Lock or IBTL.
The sad part of it is...
That forum has mods who are as childish as the the trolls that infest that forum.
Don't see that here....
Thank The GODS.

[Simon]

Gods or Mods 

[tautech]

My goodness we were being so adult for once I forgot the rules that we had to put in place for the children 

There are a number of us who are perfectly capable of acting grown up, even on a bad day

Won't stay that way if Religion is discussed OR Politics, both recipies for disaster.

Let's talk hobbys:

Racing
Tramping
Sport
Travel

[tautech]

Gods or Mods 

Gods, they don't have a "Report to Moderator" link on ANY of their posts. 

[Kjelt]

Won't stay that way if Religion is discussed OR Politics, both recipies for disaster.

+1
But forget about sports, been there done that, a disaster on a forum if you have users from opposite teams, gets real nasty quick. 

[AF6LJ]

 

Gods or Mods 

[Simon]

Won't stay that way if Religion is discussed OR Politics, both recipies for disaster.

+1
But forget about sports, been there done that, a disaster on a forum if you have users from opposite teams, gets real nasty quick. 

oposite teams, hm... no comment 

[IanB]

One's belief in anything science, atheism or any given god is a religion. The belief in mathematics's ability to explain all of the world around us is a religion, the same with belief in one's self.

The operative word is Belief.

The difference is in the basis for belief. In science beliefs change when evidence indicates that beliefs should. The most important statement a scientist can make is "I don't know". In religion beliefs become doctrine and holding fast to doctrine becomes really important. Questioning doctrine and trying to change it is called heresy.

[AF6LJ]

One's belief in anything science, atheism or any given god is a religion. The belief in mathematics's ability to explain all of the world around us is a religion, the same with belief in one's self.

The operative word is Belief.

The difference is in the basis for belief. In science beliefs change when evidence indicates that beliefs should. The most important statement a scientist can make is "I don't know". In religion beliefs become doctrine and holding fast to doctrine becomes really important. Questioning doctrine and trying to change it is called heresy.

To borrow an old phase "Where the Rubber Meets the Road" the human element has an effect on both.
Often in science it is what you don't look for that is as important as what you looked for. in religion interpretation is the same element of chance.

The early Chorlestorl drugs worked by blocking a chemical that was used in the formation of Cholesterol The problem is the same chemical was used in the formation of co-enzyme Q-10 an essential nutrient for the maintenance of cells. Those statin drugs caused more problems than they "cured". come to find out that dietary cholesterol doesn't directly effect cholesterol in the first place.

Science is only as good as the people who do the science.
Religion is only as good as the honesty of the people preaching the religion.

The human element in both is the problem, but we have to live with it.

A very smart man once told me, "what you believe doesn't matter, it's what the people who control your life believe that really matters."...

If the people that make the laws here in California believe that when you die your soul goes into the oil drip pan in a garage in East LA; they are going to act accordingly, and it will effect me. It pays to know what your leaders believe, God help you if they believe they are superior to you.