WWB is getting it budget cut and going off air after almost 100 years.

[Beamin]

Well we can expect this and lots of other things to lose as the government scramble to to try and fund 100% of the government with 2/3 the income. I don't think there will be any tax dollars "trickling down " to fund the WWV. And once we lose it its not ever coming back.

For years this was a way to crudely test my shortwave radios to see how many WWV it could get or also see propagation vs a known signal on the different bands. I was also starting projects with telemetry with my first projects to see if they could get the time off the WWV. But I guess that and the millions of electronics that set their time, will be forced back into blinking 12:00 12:00. Was also a fun way to check the time as a small shortwave cracks out the time signal in the back ground at low volume if you wanted to check the time in your sleep with out putting on glasses or contacts, listening to the calming and mesmerizing sound of the clicks.

The sad part is there is plenty of money to keep it going. I wonder how much private donations would have to be raised to keep it going. I  personally wanted to visit it to just hear the strange noises it made while standing under the towers.

  Asshole doesn't even know what it is so he's just cutting budgets. As he said "I don't care about the debt or deficit and how its spiraling out of control, I won't be president when that happens." That's someone who cares more about the country then their own self image. What will the children listen to in their cages at the ICE camps without the WWV to keep them with a reference of how many months they have been there?

This actually pisses me off.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641835302/what-closing-a-government-radio-station-would-mean-for-your-clocks

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: National Institute of Standards and Technology time - this is radio station WWV, Fort Collins, Colo.
SIMON: WWV is the oldest continuously operating radio station in the United States. It's been on the air since 1920. It's signal provides a frequency standard for receivers. The time stamp is regulated by an atomic clock. But a 2019 budget proposal for NIST would close WWV, WWVH in Hawaii and WWVB, which syncs up the time for about 50 million radio-controlled clocks, wristwatches and appliances. Thomas Witherspoon wrote about this on his shortwave listener website, SWLing.com He joins us from the studios of the CBC in Quebec City - that's a lot of alphabet soup to get through in this intro. Thanks for being with us, Mr. Witherspoon.
THOMAS WITHERSPOON: Oh, thank you very much. It's my pleasure.
SIMON: So what would the effect of the closing of WWV be?
WITHERSPOON: Well, these little WWVB receivers are embedded in lots of devices that look for accurate timing - clocks, watches, weather stations, even irrigation systems. So if the WWVB signal goes away, these devices will have to be changed manually. They're not going to update themselves.
SIMON: Isn't that all taken care of on the Internet these days? I mean, we set the time according to what we see on our iPhones. I venture most Americans do.

[kj7e]

Perhaps there is a business opportunity to produce an NTP to low power 60KHz broadcast device, to sync all of your home clocks.

[djacobow]

It is a shame.

It reminds me a bit of when they shut down the LORAN chains. IMHO, this was a huge mistake, as they just didn't cost all that much to operate, and could have served nicely as a backup to GPS. Being a terrestrial system it would have totally different failure modes than GPS. Also, not having to rely on solar power, it could send a more powerful signal, much more difficult to jam than the fraction of a "bee's dick" power levels from GPS satellites.

[Bryan]

Is there a update to this, was the budget passed to decommission the WWVB transmissions?

[jfiresto]

Would this help answer your question?

[awallin]

Is there a update to this, was the budget passed to decommission the WWVB transmissions?

"WWV, along with WWVB and WWVH, was recommended for defunding and elimination in NIST's Fiscal Year 2019 budget request.[5] However, the final 2019 NIST budget preserved funding for the three stations.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_(radio_station)

[Beamin]

Is there a update to this, was the budget passed to decommission the WWVB transmissions?

"WWV, along with WWVB and WWVH, was recommended for defunding and elimination in NIST's Fiscal Year 2019 budget request.[5] However, the final 2019 NIST budget preserved funding for the three stations.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_(radio_station)

All the interesting stuff on SW is going away since I built my first radio in the 90's. Except the "reverend" staircase who spouts hateful jesus talk and end of world scenarios that never come true but yet they don't refund the money of the people tricked into the 2nd coming of Christ. There are also useful beacons for measuring propagation going away as they break. Seems dumb not to have a back up for GPS especially since its one CME away from going down.

[edy]

That sucks. How much can it cost to run this thing, and does it not have some useful military application so it can get sucked into the military budget? Another thing, does my clock use it:



I've never set the time on this thing manually and probably wouldn't know how to. I think it always figured out daylight savings time by itself. A lot of people are going to be unpleasantly surprised if it gets shuttered and they sleep in or wake up an hour earlier when the time change occurs and they didn't know, assuming their alarm clock would work the same way it did for years before.

[james_s]

Yes that little dish logo in the bottom right corner means it uses WWV to set itself.

[rdl]

NIST said eliminating funding currently “supporting fundamental measurement dissemination” would include putting WWV and WWVH off the air for a saving of $6.3 million.

Today President Donald J. Trump sent Congress a proposed Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 budget request of $716 billion for national security, $686 billion of which is for the Department of Defense. 

The equivalent of shutting down the DoD for about 3 days if I did the calculation right.

[ledtester]

It's about 5 seconds minutes of savings:

(6.3 million) / (686 billion) * 365 * 24 * 60 = 4.8269...

[fourfathom]

It's about 5 seconds of savings:

(6.3 million) / (686 billion) * 365 * 24 * 60 = 4.8269...

Minutes.

[ledtester]

I don't wear watches, but I did get this one years ago:

[technix]

I have the idea that it is likely GPS that ate into the user base of WWV and WWVH. GPS have better time accuracy, and GPS receivers are commonplace enough (most smartphones have built-in GPS) and cheap enough (US$10 for a basic module.)

Perhaps there is a business opportunity to produce an NTP to low power 60KHz broadcast device, to sync all of your home clocks.

Or GPS (any GNSS really) to 60kHz. NTP requires Internet connection, but GPS can work entirely offline. It can even be a self-contained module with onboard solar panel and batteries for offline power. Such a self contained GPS to 60kHz module can be mounted outdoors on a pole (or left on the roof) and just work, requiring no cable to it and little maintenance.

[Richard Crowley]

It would seem almost trivial to create a low-power transmitter on 60KHz to mimic the code from WWVB if it goes dark.  Based on GPS time.  The "Atomic Clocks" don't use the carrier frequency for a reference, AFAIK.  They only use the modulated data.

By "low power" I mean something of a few mW that would cover all the clocks in your house (or in the neighborhood, for that matter).  The same cutbacks that put WWVB off the air would likely cut back on the number of FCC folk who could come out and hassle you for that. 

[ledtester]

It would seem almost trivial to create a low-power transmitter on 60KHz to mimic the code from WWVB if it goes dark. ...

e.g.:

https://www.anishathalye.com/2016/12/26/micro-wwvb/

Update: The article has this to say about the legality of transmitting on 60 KHz:

Luckily, the FCC grants exemptions for certain unlicensed transmissions, as specified by 47 CFR 15. This is explained in some detail in “Understanding the FCC Regulations for Low-Power Non-Licensed Transmitters”.

Transmitters in the 60 kHz band are allowed, and the emission limit at that frequency is given in 47 CFR 15.209. As long as the field strength is under 40 μV/m as measured at 300 meters, it’s fine.

[edy]

e.g.:

https://www.anishathalye.com/2016/12/26/micro-wwvb/

That's a neat project. I am thinking somebody could do this with a RaspBerry Pi as well, and get internet time (if it's easier than using a GPS module) to modulate a 60 kHz signal to do the same. OH, wait a minute... look what I just found:   

https://hackaday.com/2018/09/10/no-signal-for-your-radio-controlled-watch-just-make-your-own-transmitter/

[CatalinaWOW]

I'm with OP.  WWV has always been my go to station for checking out a new receiver.  Since the first vacuum tube regenerative model several decades ago in high school.  It is the only one I know of that is always there and available on several bands.  Easy to remember frequency and useful once you got tuned in.

Maybe the ARRL could be the coordinator for a donation campaign to keep it going.  Even though the 2019 battle seems to have been won, this will continue to be a target for cuts since the vast majority of people and close to 100% of lawmakers have no idea whether it has any value.  I am forced to agree that for NIST it is no longer part of their primary mission, but it could be argued that it is part of one of their secondary missions - education.

[technix]

Maybe the ARRL could be the coordinator for a donation campaign to keep it going.  Even though the 2019 battle seems to have been won, this will continue to be a target for cuts since the vast majority of people and close to 100% of lawmakers have no idea whether it has any value.  I am forced to agree that for NIST it is no longer part of their primary mission, but it could be argued that it is part of one of their secondary missions - education.

The education perspective of WWV can be split between some other multi-band broadcaster and GPS.

Here in China, in the 90s, the similar education purposes is split between local broadcasters for radio transmissions (I have even visited Shanghai Oriental TV once for that,) BPM for frequency standard (Shanghai is a special case here as Shanghai Observatory CAS maintains a few Beijing Time reference atomic clocks and is a contributor of National Time Service Center of China, indirectly participating in maintaining UTC, so that is used instead and is not taken over by Beidou,) and Dongfanghong-I for satellite communications. The current textbooks use telecom carriers for radio transmissions, but the frequency standard and satellite communications arms of the education is taken up by Beidou-II and Beidou-III systems. Beidou-II and Beidou-III together forms the Chinese equivalent of GPS, and there are combined receivers out there that can receive both GPS and Beidou signals, and incorporate them into the same geolocation equations.

[soldar]

I can see how GPS/Galileo/Beidou will make radio time signals obsolete but there are a lot of devices out there which will also be rendered obsolete.

In Europe we have DSF77 out of Germany. I have several clocks which are supposed to synchronize using DSF77 but they work very badly or not at all. I guess I am too far away and the antennas they have are crap.

[Black Phoenix]

Didn't the Casio Wave Ceptor is one that is also going to lose from the WWV going down?

Casio watches synchronise to radio time signals from one or more of six low frequency time signal transmitters. The 60kHz signals from different transmitters are not compatible with each other; a watch designed for WWVB only cannot receive MSF.

Japan

Watches can receive signals from two JJY transmitters:

The 40kHz signal from Mount Otakadoya, near Fukushima (Ohtakadoyayama).

The 60kHz signal from the Haganeyama Transmitter at Mount Hagane (Haganeyama).

China

Watches receive the 68kHz signal from BPC at Shangqiu.

United States

Watches receive the 60kHz signal from WWVB at Fort Collins.

United Kingdom

Watches receive the 60kHz MSF at Anthorn.

Germany

Watches receive the 77.5kHz DCF77 at Mainflingen.

As an example, Casio Wave Ceptors using modules 3353 and 3354, such as the WVA-440, can tune to signals from both DCF77 (Germany) and MSF (UK). The two submodels use the same electronics module, but with a soldered jumper selecting preferential tuning first to DCF77, or to MSF. This is default behaviour after a factory reset; the user can choose to use either one of the two transmitters with either module, although this limits use when travelling within Europe.

So that means that a watch build for the WWVB will lose is use after the signal goes down, since it is done only to USA and not anywhere in the world, right?

[EEVblog]

Perhaps there is a business opportunity to produce an NTP to low power 60KHz broadcast device, to sync all of your home clocks.

I was just looking into that actually, for atomic watches...
I'm picturing a community network of low power transmitters all registered on a googly map website to show the coverage.

[james_s]

I can see how GPS/Galileo/Beidou will make radio time signals obsolete but there are a lot of devices out there which will also be rendered obsolete.

In Europe we have DSF77 out of Germany. I have several clocks which are supposed to synchronize using DSF77 but they work very badly or not at all. I guess I am too far away and the antennas they have are crap.

"A lot" is probably an understatement. There are hundreds of millions of devices, a majority of owners of which are probably completely unaware that their "atomic" clock relies on WWV to work.

[soldar]

"A lot" is probably an understatement. There are hundreds of millions of devices, a majority of owners of which are probably completely unaware that their "atomic" clock relies on WWV to work.

Yes, but such is the price of progress. When TV went digital millions of receivers were obsoleted and had to get a converter box. I suppose someone could make some money offering the GPS to 60 KHz "converter".

The day they shut down Loran C they obsoleted my Loran C receiver which I liked and it had many of my routes memorized. Sometimes I would not mind stopping progress, or at least slowing it down a bit.

My German clocks do not seem to receive DSF77 and I have to set them manually. Which means a few weeks late in changing from and to daylight saving time. Hopefully they will soon get rid of that idiocy.

[james_s]

I've never really been a fan of the digital switchover for TV either, I got one of those converter boxes when they were essentially free, hooked it up and briefly marveled over the great picture quality on my old Trinitron TV downstairs. Then I quickly realized that modern broadcast TV is terrible between the heavy ad load and logo floating in the corner on all the channels and never actually used it again. Analog TV worked just fine and most people who care about HD have cable or satellite anyway. I cannot think of a single person I know who actually watches HD OTA TV.