Why I don't like Arduino !

[ggchab]

First, I was impressed by the availability of cheap modules that can do almost everything.

As a first Arduino experience and for a quick and dirty project, I believed I would just have to select the right pins for my modules, install the libraries and inform them how the devices are connected.

But then comes the nightmare. If you test the examples code, everything works pretty well as long as you follow exactly the instructions. But when you start having to mix modules, sharing, for example, the SPI bus, this is something else. On several forums, I even read that I should use software SPI for the second module, ... and all sort of horrible things 

And most of the time, documentation of the libraries is only made of examples. I would prefer a strict documentation of the offered functions, parameters, actions and returned values.

My conclusion, as a hobbyist, is that I really prefer learning devices datasheet and writing the drivers myself. This takes a lot of time but, at least, I have full control of my hardware and when something is not working, I know where to look at. And I learn a lot more 

What do you think ?

[fourtytwo42]

I think you are absolutely right, grappling with the device data sheets often reveals improved ways of using them and as you say you learn lots. Many people come on here asking for help with library code that only works in a particular situation. Wherever possible I do not import code, or if I do to get something working I re-write it into something I consider sane. Same goes for many spice models!

[llkiwi2006]

I don't like Arduino because it's "IDE" is more like a stripped down text editor that encourages you to write bad code. It forces (or at least highly encourages, idk I have used it much) you to put everything into one source file, which just teaches you to not make your code modular, readable, and maintainable. The standard library also sets a bad example with inconsistent capitalization and bad naming. Finally, come on, why would you take away the main function that all C programmers know and love?

P.S. I also love writing low level code and poking the hardware registers myself. I feel like it gives me way more control than whatever HAL is provided. But I can imagine it being confusing and tedious for beginners. Also yeah I agree I often learn a lot from the reference manuals.

P.P.S Why are people so obsessed with atmel avr (like in arduino)? These days arm microcontrollers are much better in pretty much all aspects and cheaper as well.

[doobedoobedo]

I'll come at this from a slightly different angle.

Arduino is awesome for getting started with microcontrollers and for simple projects. People have put a lot of time in to writing libraries and providing example code, which is just what you need as a complete beginner. It flattens out the initial learning curve.

Having said that, as soon as you start to step out of simple projects and want to do something a bit more complex, then it may well be that it's no longer for you.  You can read datasheets and apply them within the arduino environment, but as stated by others the IDE is truly awful for managing anything complex.

Would I be working on my current ARM project without arduino? - probably not.
Would I consider arduino for a simple project? - definitely. It currently runs my toaster oven, unlocks my back gate and the complex thing that made me look for something else works - just - in it's initial version, but I ran out of program space and AVRs are too power hungry - hence the move to ARM.

[sleemanj]

The Arduino IDE is great as a simple ready-to-go just-download-it toolchain. 

Certainly it has limitations, but frankly I am the sort of person who thinks the perfect IDE is a text editor. file tree and shell, so for me, it's really not bad (a file tree would be nice though).  It's not for writing highly complex systems it's for writing a few kb of code.  I do usually wind up writing library (or My work on ATTinycore and Optiboot) code in  my favourite editor of choice (kate currently), but "sketch" code I write directly in the IDE.

Libraries are of course  highly variable, being as a lot of people who get involved in Arduino projects are not professional developers, or even experienced, the amount of bad code out there is high, but you can write good code.  Certainly from time to time I have ended up heavily reworking or writing a library from scratch because I did not care for the existing ones.  But this is hardly the fault of "arduino" if people write shitty code for it.

As for AVR8 popularity, it's a simple easy to understand not-terribly-documented  family with large similarity and a well supported official free open source readily available (especially on a decent linux distro - apt-get install avr-gcc) toolchain.

[Galenbo]

...I believed I would just have to select the right pins for my modules, install the libraries and inform them how the devices are connected.

But then comes the nightmare. If you test the examples code, everything works pretty well as long as you follow exactly the instructions. But when you start having to mix modules, sharing, for example, the SPI bus, this is something else. On several forums, I even read that I should use software SPI for the second module, ... and all sort of horrible things 

I have exactly the same experiences with https://www.mikroe.com/

After a quick test of the modules and their examples + closed libraries, you start an intregrated project.

Ethernet-SPI comes together with port expander SPI, and you can start messing around.
Another PIC with 2 SPI busses is not compatible with board X and compiler Y, or there are voltage conflicts on programmer Z.
All of this undocumented, of course, you run into 1 of the many problems and when a solution is not explicitily mentioned, it is "normal"

The same thing with LCD-over-expander. Both LCD and expander libraries were unusable.
Even separate they were unusable, lacked a lot of options and had some bugs.

[Red Squirrel]

Arduino is kinda what got me interested in electronics, and microcontrollers and I imagine it's the same for lot of people.  I did not even know about the concept of them, like I kinda knew that there was "embedded computers" in devices but not more than that.

I never really gotten into the modules (shields or hats or whatever you want to call them) as I think it's more fun to try to just connect stuff myself directly so I can know what's going on more than just a ready solution.

One thing I do like about Arduino is that it's easier to find out how to do stuff, even if I don't plan to use Arduino.  For example if I have some kind of sensor and I want to know how to use it, I'm going to get way more results if I search for "[sensor] Arduino" than if I search for the name of a specific MCU or "bit bang" or other keywords.  Arduino will also have libraries to do all that if I go with that route.

I actually want to learn how to program MCUs without using Arduino code though, but I find it's hard to find resources on how.  Like the names of all the variables and built in functions etc.  The datasheets show small code snippets and explain what the ports do etc but you don't really get the whole picture.  It's probably more good as a reference for once you already know how to code them.    Googling "how to set a pin high" with the name of a specific MCU probably won't give you much, but with Arduino as a keyword it will, for example. 

I want to get into more automation projects and will probably go the AVR / Arduino route.    Maybe Raspberry Pi for the central unit then all the sensors/expanders will connect to it.

[cstratton]

- The IDE is horrid.  Basic edit, search, etc functionality has quirky issues, the utilized character set aliases different symbols, library integration is goofy, and it complains about version control tracking objects in the source tree.  Once you have more files in a project than tabs that can fit across your screen, navigation becomes difficult.

- There's not been any consistent-over-time way to do command line builds, which precludes adult software development practices like automated builds

- The documentation is woeful imprecise.  Compare any arduino method page, to the Unix manual page for comparable function.  It's fine that the page starts out with beginner-friendly language, but it must also include key information for real programmers, like a function prototype with the return type, and it does not.  Sometimes the text clarifies, often it does not and one is forced to grep the platform sources.

Even apart from all the room for criticism in how Arduino may start beginners down a path of bad habits, these failures make it very hard to carry already established sound habits into the occasional Arduino project. 

Beginner friendly is a fine goal; but being so incompatible with professional use is a problem.

[frozenfrogz]

Arduino is awesome for getting started with microcontrollers and for simple projects. People have put a lot of time in to writing libraries and providing example code, which is just what you need as a complete beginner. It flattens out the initial learning curve.

Exactly this!

When I started trying to figure out my way into the glorious world of micro controllers, the Arduino approach helped me a lot. I remember that when I was a child back in the 1990s, I bought a "C-Control Unit" (Conrad here in Germany sold these) for quite a lot of my hard earned pocket money. I had bold plans of building an autonomous robot, but the hard reality was, that I barely just kind of figured out how to drive an old DC motor from a tape deck I found in the dumpster from a weak AA battery pack.
Programming was done in Basic and since there was nothing like today's web forums (well technically there were news groups and all, but I did not know that then), I was left with some manuals and no knowledge of electronics. I never built that robot and I got frustrated because my Lego model would not even move with the low torque I got from the scrap motor.

Today, the world is quite different. You can have all the expertise you want on internet forums, PDF manuals, example projects,... and because of free libraries and cheap hardware you can dive straight into creating awesome stuff! Learn as you go is the approach that makes it a lot of fun and keeps frustration at a level that makes you want to figure out stuff instead of throwing everything out the window.
I do agree, that the point in time where you realize the Arduino environment now is more of a restriction than helping you is inevitable, but at that time you already learned all the basic stuff and you can evolve into another direction.

I think, the Arduino project is awesome! If it is able to inspire lots of people to get together, learn about programming, ask questions, try to figure out how stuff works and make them create their own things, but that comes at the price of having a restrictive and simplified IDE: Be my guest!

Edit: Besides that, there are of course lots of things to criticize, starting with the horrible documentation. However, you need to start somewhere

[kerrsmith]

- The IDE is horrid.  Basic edit, search, etc functionality has quirky issues, the utilized character set aliases different symbols, library integration is goofy, and it complains about version control tracking objects in the source tree.  Once you have more files in a project than tabs that can fit across your screen, navigation becomes difficult.

I always use Visual Micro which is an Arduino IDE for Visual Studio, it works on the Visual Studio Community 2017 Edition so both are completely free to use.

When using Visual Micro you get all the intellisense features such as List Members, Parameter Info, Quick Info, and Complete Word that Visual Studio provides and as you are using Visual Studio you can also include extensions such as Git and code tidying (such as CodeMaid).

Visual Micro is a really great program and you can do everything you can in the the Arduino IDE directly in Visual Studio (code uploading, verifying etc) - the error checking and highlighting alone is extremely useful.

The program is actively maintained and is updated on a very regular basis to keep up to date with new boards that are developed. I have been using it for several years now and I find it extremely hard to go back to the default Arduino IDE as it lacks so many useful features (error highlighting, jump to function definition etc).

I highly recommend checking out this program if you want to code for Arduino in a really great programming IDE.

[IanJ]

Hi all,

Arduino IDE config tip:
Enable external text editor and use NotePad++ instead (or any other source code text editor).
When you save in NotePad++ it's automatically updated in the IDE, so all you ever use the IDE for is to compile/upload or the serial monitor.

Ian.

[Nusa]

Complaining about the Arduino IDE is not complaining about the Arduino itself. If you know enough to do things yourself, you also know enough to use a different editor or IDE. There's nothing magic about it.

If you don't know enough to use another IDE, then you probably aren't missing the obscure, but useful, features in other IDE's because you don't know them either.

Repeat above paragraphs about library support. Nobody makes you use the ones others have written unless you aren't capable of doing otherwise.

Now if you have actual complaints about the hardware, that's another matter. Most of you don't seem to be complaining about the hardware, however. The atmega datasheet is huuuge and comprehensive if you just want to do things yourself.

[Beamin]

I find the hardest part about an Arduino is answering the question "What's an Arduino do?" from a lay person. Everything? Blink a light? Run a webserver that monitors the doors in your house from your cell phone?

[madires]

I fully agree that the Arduino is a great tool for starting with MCUs. The IDE and tons of tutorials are very helpful for beginners. If you like to do more advanced stuff you have to deal with the MCU directly anyway. And you can do this with the Arduino too. It's a versatile little MCU board.

[Beamin]

First, I was impressed by the availability of cheap modules that can do almost everything.

As a first Arduino experience and for a quick and dirty project, I believed I would just have to select the right pins for my modules, install the libraries and inform them how the devices are connected.

But then comes the nightmare. If you test the examples code, everything works pretty well as long as you follow exactly the instructions. But when you start having to mix modules, sharing, for example, the SPI bus, this is something else. On several forums, I even read that I should use software SPI for the second module, ... and all sort of horrible things 

And most of the time, documentation of the libraries is only made of examples. I would prefer a strict documentation of the offered functions, parameters, actions and returned values.

My conclusion, as a hobbyist, is that I really prefer learning devices datasheet and writing the drivers myself. This takes a lot of time but, at least, I have full control of my hardware and when something is not working, I know where to look at. And I learn a lot more 

What do you think ?

I think that's the exception not the rule. I really like electronics especially analog devices where you have to know how it works in order to make it work. But for me anything with the code more just editing a few variables is incredibly boring and I consider it a chore. It feels like work and taking away time I could be spending making hardware work. The Arduino is popular because you can do all kinds of things without being a computer programmer. Yes witting code can be sort of fun but I find myself usually getting frustrated spending hours making it work because I forgot a ; or don't know the syntax. When I am working on the code I just think I could be spending this time learning the part I like. If you are choosing this as a career this can be really frustrating taking away precious study time only to realize 10 of hours of project building isn't working because of one line of code.

[Beamin]

Actually what I hate most about the Arduino has nothing to do with the Arduino:

I bought the RFduino thinking that would be the ultimate toy: RF stuff with Arduino. I have about 50 projects I want to make. So I bought the thing and I decide to make the iPhone RGB mood light thing since I couldn't find any other projects. Every dIY went like this:

Solder the lights remember LEDs are polarized. Use glue to stick the popsicle sticks together. Make sure the glue dries. I use paper towels to clean up the glue and not my moms good fabric table napkins. (About 20 more steps of common sense/things that insult my intelligence)
Next upload the appropriate library and code for your device and app.(wait what? )
Open the app by using one finger to tap the icon don't tap twice. Click on the color wheel to change the color. Don't forget to shut off the lights or the batteries will die. Now is a good time  to put the lid on the glue by turning the cap clockwise.

I don't know if the examples are like this because the people don't understand the middle part/hard part or if they don't feel like explaining how the thing actually works. To this day my RF arduino has never been used because I can't find any good instructions or even documentation to learn from it. Wasn't cheap either. There were some forums but nobody posts there and the few people that do think you are idiot for not having spent 4 years learning code. And respond with "find your mistake and then fix it. Its not hard"

If anyone knows a good example or just instructions on how the RFarduino works that would be great. I still haven't figured out if you program it together or if thats done over air: there just isn't any basic info. So it sits collecting dust with the other failed projects. I miss the days of big thick paper instruction manuals. Back then if something didn't work it was because you didnt ead the manual. Now there is no manual.

[ggchab]

Arduino IDE config tip:
Enable external text editor and use NotePad++ instead (or any other source code text editor).
When you save in NotePad++ it's automatically updated in the IDE, so all you ever use the IDE for is to compile/upload or the serial monitor.

=
Thank you, very good tip  I was often doing copy/paste between Notepad++ and he Arduino editor which is missing some basic functionalities.

[JoeO]

I don't like Arduino because it's "IDE" is more like a stripped down text editor that encourages you to write bad code. It forces (or at least highly encourages, idk I have used it much) you to put everything into one source file, which just teaches you to not make your code modular, readable, and maintainable. The standard library also sets a bad example with inconsistent capitalization and bad naming. Finally, come on, why would you take away the main function that all C programmers know and love?

You can do the main function with Arduino. 

[Nusa]

I don't like Arduino because it's "IDE" is more like a stripped down text editor that encourages you to write bad code. It forces (or at least highly encourages, idk I have used it much) you to put everything into one source file, which just teaches you to not make your code modular, readable, and maintainable. The standard library also sets a bad example with inconsistent capitalization and bad naming. Finally, come on, why would you take away the main function that all C programmers know and love?

You can do the main function with Arduino.

Indeed. This is the default main function:

Code: [Select]

  main.cpp - Main loop for Arduino sketches
  Copyright (c) 2005-2013 Arduino Team.  All right reserved.
  This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
  modify it under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public
  License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either
  version 2.1 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
  This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
  but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
  MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
  Lesser General Public License for more details.
  You should have received a copy of the GNU Lesser General Public
  License along with this library; if not, write to the Free Software
  Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301  USA
*/

#include <Arduino.h>

// Declared weak in Arduino.h to allow user redefinitions.
int atexit(void (* /*func*/ )()) { return 0; }

// Weak empty variant initialization function.
// May be redefined by variant files.
void initVariant() __attribute__((weak));
void initVariant() { }

void setupUSB() __attribute__((weak));
void setupUSB() { }

int main(void)
{
	init();

	initVariant();

#if defined(USBCON)
	USBDevice.attach();
#endif
	
	setup();
    
	for (;;) {
		loop();
		if (serialEventRun) serialEventRun();
	}
        
	return 0;
}

If you want your own main instead of the setup/loop setup, just create one. If you want to use library functions, you'll still need to call init(), or a number of things won't work.

[b_force]

You have to put it all in perspective.
I am not a huge fan of the Arduino boards and shields.
On the other hand it gives you a possibility to do some quick experiments.

I mainly like the concept because it's much easier to develop stuff.
Instead of spending a lot of time reading datasheets and things.
(which for me is far from joy)

[retrolefty]

Beginner friendly is a fine goal; but being so incompatible with professional use is a problem.

 The Arduino team hit a home run and reached a new user base they were shooting for, which was not professional programmers/developers, but rather non programming university student/artist types. It was never meant to be a mainstream programming product for professional programmers or commercial developers, nor a path to a professional C++  career. 

 My main complaint with the Arduino platform is that once they reached their original target(s) they found they couldn't compete with cheap compatible asian clones ($3 nano boards, etc) and therefore lost most of their retail cash flow for the 8 bit hardware products. So they went crazy releasing so many different boards, 32 bit based, wireless capabilities, etc etc, and the IDE has to be continuously upgraded to support each new product. So they are now trying to be everything for everyone which of course is not really possible.

 All that aside I don't think there has ever been a more successful open source hardware/software project project, at least in number of users, but maybe someone here can offer an argument with that.

 

[james_s]

The issue I had with the Arduino is that there are multiple different versions of the IDE which don't seem to like to coexist and newer versions break things in older code and libraries. I understand some of the reasons behind this but for something that is supposed to be beginner friendly I found it annoying.

[imidis]

 

This makes me sad =(

[alsetalokin4017]

Why I don't like bicycles !

You can't carry a lot of grocery bags on a bicycle. They don't go very fast either. And it takes _all day_ to go from New York to Boston. And you're all tuckered out when you finally get there.  And don't even mention rain! Everything just gets wet! Bicycles are terrible if you only have one leg. Well at least they come in different colors.


Get it? Arduino is a tool. You don't hammer nails with a bicycle and you don't write huge complex programs for Arduino. But you _can_ do a practically infinite number of things with Arduino and the stock IDE, and do them quickly and without a lot of hardware overhead. It is what it is. Don't like it? Doesn't suit your purpose? Fine... don't use it. But I don't think I'll be tossing my Arduinos out the window just yet. A couple dollars for a Nano or ProMini clone, a free IDE that is instantly portable  between WindSux, Linux, and OSX, bazillions of example programs available, easy learning curve for beginners.... but hey, it's not a Harley Davidson with a sidecar, it's a _bicycle_.  If you know what I mean.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Arduino is a machine like any other, it's either a benefit or a hazard. If it's a benefit, it's not my problem.