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General => General Chat => Topic started by: tpowell1830 on October 05, 2018, 02:11:38 pm

Title: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tpowell1830 on October 05, 2018, 02:11:38 pm
Seems that Fran has a lot of things going against her. I have been watching her channel for a couple of years and these crises seem to vex her. Serendipity is a double edged sword and sometimes the writing on the wall is a specific message i.e. in this case it is saying to move out of Philly.

Fran, if you are reading, I wish you well and hope you find a peaceful place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4)
Title: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 06, 2018, 01:18:15 am
Not good:

I recon we could crowd source finding a new place for her if she lets us know the budget and requirements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 06, 2018, 01:46:02 am
I saw that. The described situation is historically quite common. I have seen quite a number of neighborhoods that for one reason or another get the eye of a developer (or a number of developers) that gob up properties and push people out. This was much worse in certain cities in Brazil, and I still recall near my workplace a very tiny lot with a house inserted in the middle of several skyscrapers - someone probably either too stubborn or deed was lost and recovered only years after the buildings were erected.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 06, 2018, 02:16:12 am
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: beanflying on October 06, 2018, 04:45:26 am
PITA and part of living in the Tenanted world. I have had it happen to me commercially at the end of lease. I was offered a new lease with a 50% hike or else. I suggested impolitely I would be taking the or else option and they could place their bluestone building somewhere appropriate  >:D

No need for outrage or response or campaigns just a sad/annoying event in the quirky, offbeat and slightly kooky (good thing) that is Franlabs  :-+
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 06, 2018, 04:59:33 am
This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: TheSteve on October 06, 2018, 05:03:21 am
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: Brumby on October 06, 2018, 05:13:47 am
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.

Depends on where the new owners are in the development process.  If they are ready to start site work in a few weeks, then that might be a possibility.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: tpowell1830 on October 06, 2018, 06:56:46 am
I just hope that she takes it in stride and keeps on with the business of making videos of cool things. Not to mention good guitar music and accessories.

The worst thing to happen would be if she lets it get her down.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 06, 2018, 04:03:18 pm
I did not watch the video yet,

But based on what people are writing

Isent this the plot of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCp0qLqnCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCp0qLqnCY)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 06, 2018, 11:26:59 pm
The downsides of renting.  You're really at the mercy of the landlords/owners and your life can be turned upside down real quick if they make any decisions that affect you.

Hopefully she can somehow find a new place and own it and get set up again but sounds like money is an issue.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 06, 2018, 11:52:22 pm
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
There he goes again. :palm: Get help, this obsession isn't healthy or productive.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 06, 2018, 11:57:07 pm
well she does not dress like

wait why am i even

breast implants?

maybe flame thrower boobs like wild wild west? fembots?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYj4YDgwrs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYj4YDgwrs0)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 07, 2018, 12:06:54 am
2000 sq ft?  Really for a Lab ?  What she builds rocket engines there?  Or it is also her living place?

I do not see it necessary to live near restaurants and night clubs, and with today's online supplies procurement i see no problems to run a small business from a suburb.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 12:16:08 am
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department

you get a sales call and you say hold up, let me quote you in 3 days after I verify 15 different parts sources? when someone asks to buy some shit you wanna get back to them as soon as humanly fucking possible with a YES.. and deliver, not wonder if people are  gonna send you sharp fucked up brackets, tomb stoned PCB and have their laser cutter break down.

2000sqft is small for a work shop.

reasonably accessible table saw, mill, drill  press, grinder, lathe, tool cabinets, a few work benches, laser cutter, pick and place, oven occupies all that real fast. add welding, electronics, burn in test area...

a lot of idiots can pack all that stuff real tight but its not good for cleaning, workflow or safety.  yea I am talking to you buddy, with that spectrum analyzer 2 feet away from a bench grinder.

if you wanna get stuff done fast too, you wanna setup your production in a round robin fashion, not have to hire a mathematician to do complex analysis on what route to take. less stress and you can actually focus on doing stuff rather then 'juggling space'

then there is always the 'cad factor'. You can setup jigs quickly to do certain jobs to match what you have in your head without going to a god damn computer to make a drawing, then argue about it over a telephone because you forgot to specify some shit someone wants to know about that you just intrinsically know about (quality of a drilled hole, tolerances (you can just tell or do a quick fit test). Wanna make a few parts fast for a small production? Spending hours making blue prints is not the way to go about it. Maybe a few notes on a post it.

If you have a few people that like being tied up with utter bullshit (stop production because some one gets something thats not absolutely perfect and their a fuckin robot) all the time then sure, you can get by just mailing things to different people.. and it makes some sense on extreme mass production.. but for a smaller business that does custom work???? come on.

theoretically you might be able to squeeze some money out of it, but practically your gonna end up looking like professor xavier
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 07, 2018, 12:37:40 am
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
There he goes again. :palm: Get help, this obsession isn't healthy or productive.
Those two are the only other female tech TV show hosts who have publicly asked for help in recent history. (That I know of anyways.)
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department

you get a sales call and you say hold up, let me quote you in 3 days after I verify 15 different parts sources? when someone asks to buy some shit you wanna get back to them as soon as humanly fucking possible with a YES.. and deliver, not wonder if people are  gonna send you sharp fucked up brackets, tomb stoned PCB and have their laser cutter break down.

2000sqft is small for a work shop.

reasonably accessible table saw, mill, drill  press, grinder, lathe, tool cabinets, a few work benches, laser cutter, pick and place, oven occupies all that real fast. add welding, electronics, burn in test area...

a lot of idiots can pack all that stuff real tight but its not good for cleaning, workflow or safety.  yea I am talking to you buddy, with that spectrum analyzer 2 feet away from a bench grinder.

if you wanna get stuff done fast too, you wanna setup your production in a round robin fashion, not have to hire a mathematician to do complex analysis on what route to take. less stress and you can actually focus on doing stuff rather then 'juggling space'
It's possible to shrink down an electronics lab quite a bit without losing too much functionality (been there, done that), but as you stated that's definitely not true of mechanical shops. Stationary power tools take up a lot of space and there has to be lots of clearance to allow for transport of large workpieces. Not to mention space to store materials.

It's often said that the sort of lab that downsizes the easiest is software - all you need for programming is a computer and there's no shortage of efforts to pack lots of computing power into small spaces. Not to mention cloud services for the stuff that really needs a lot of compute power.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 12:40:49 am
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 12:49:20 am
Those two are the only other female tech TV show hosts who have publicly asked for help in recent history. (That I know of anyways.)
This has nothing to do with female or not. You're just inventing reasons to mention the Youtube ladies you obsess about again.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 12:50:19 am
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
There's a lot between climbing on tables and 2000 square feet.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: Cerebus on October 07, 2018, 12:55:40 am
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...

Fran is hardly an old lady you cheeky young whippersnapper you!

Now get off my lawn! Pesky kids!  :)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 07, 2018, 01:07:11 am
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.

That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.
This has nothing to do with female or not. You're just inventing reasons to mention the Youtube ladies you obsess about again.
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 01:11:16 am
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
There's a lot between climbing on tables and 2000 square feet.

challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.

like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..

if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories

and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).

You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.

then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.

All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.

i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.

fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 02:19:05 am
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.

like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..

if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories

and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).

You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.

then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.

All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.

i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.

fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 02:29:47 am
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.

That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.

I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cerebus on October 07, 2018, 02:58:23 am
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.

That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.

I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.

At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 03:04:46 am
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.

like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..

if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories

and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).

You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.

then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.

All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.

i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.

fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.

and this people, is how your boss keeps costs down

i know your type, your working on a shrink ray aren't you? you wanna run shit out a broom closet to keep rent down
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 03:10:59 am
looking to hire: ant man
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 07, 2018, 04:01:25 am
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department
...

Now that was a long post but i have no clue why you went to that extreme. It is about one person, not a full blown company  with employees, and the person said it is a Lab (not manufacturing facility).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 04:05:27 am
cuz someone is loosing a work space and lab and people are like nah you dont need that, your backwards, dont know how to use space, etc

ridiculous , i think she has been doing it for like 20 years
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 04:06:35 am
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 04:09:26 am
obsessive is news paper cutout collages in a dim basement, creepy guys with binoculars and lockpicks, love letters being mailed, dmm's, constant current sinks

this is more like advertising for a particular sub segment of a community
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cerebus on October 07, 2018, 04:12:22 am
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.

I was trying to lighten up the whole thing, and frankly your attitude towards it is a bit obsessive. I don't recall you being appointed as a moderator. it's one thing to call out bullshit, or object to racism, or some other on-the-spot thing that might happen in a normal conversations. It's quite another to announce a campaign where you're declaring that you've decided to moderate a particular user's postings. Some might characterise that as bullying.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 04:18:49 am
and this people, is how your boss keeps costs down

i know your type, your working on a shrink ray aren't you? you wanna run shit out a broom closet to keep rent down
What makes you think bosses don't care about output? They generally rent what's required for the staff to do their job properly. Staff tends to be a lot more expensive than rent. You turned that into needing a large amount of square meters or choking your staff productivity, but that's a false dilemma.

It's good to remind ourselves that people simply wondered what all that space is required for, as it's a lot of space for a one woman band. That's a fair question.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 07, 2018, 04:28:08 am
I was trying to lighten up the whole thing, and frankly your attitude towards it is a bit obsessive. I don't recall you being appointed as a moderator. it's one thing to call out bullshit, or object to racism, or some other on-the-spot thing that might happen in a normal conversations. It's quite another to announce a campaign where you're declaring that you've decided to moderate a particular user's postings. Some might characterise that as bullying.
I didn't quite read the lightening up part in it, but fair enough. My response was a bit tongue in cheek for sure. It should be pretty obvious I'm not moderating anything. I just felt compelled to address an issue that has bothered quite a few forum members before and which they talked to NiHoaMike about before on a few occasions. Much like how you felt the need to address me, I guess.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Simon on October 07, 2018, 08:39:49 am
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.

Yea OK he has a bit of a problem but you seem to be a bit trigger happy here and now half the thread did become about you obsession about his obsession. If you think there is a problem then please report it.

Are we all happy and calmed down now?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 07, 2018, 10:59:19 am
It's good to remind ourselves that people simply wondered what all that space is required for, as it's a lot of space for a one woman band. That's a fair question.

I have 88sqm spread over two offices, plus a 44sqm storage bunker. Fran is looking for 185sqm.
I have one full time employee but he only takes up one small desk, so let's say it's just me.
We are basically in the same business with similar requirements in terms of space for filming, R&D, stock, assembly, packing and shipping, works in progress, and storage of gear and other stuff.
I have 7 work benches in my lab and its STILL not enough space.
I can totally understand why Fran would be looking for 185sqm.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 12:12:48 pm
a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up, and so you can do things like have a few empty rack mounts in your lab so you can wheel a rack mount over to a bench, configure it up with a bunch of test equipment that might not even have inputs on the front (i am looking at you microwave amplifiers or high power supplies or other specific things) and comfortably work there or possibly leave it running over a long period of time.

People expect you to 'build stonehenge' for some reason. You can have a rotary table but as soon as you have some hook up wires in the front and you need to adjust something in the back, your in trouble and risk kinking the cables with the equipment its self and you can stress the connectors. If its heavy and sinks into a ESD mat then you need to play build the ancient monuments.

I have had to egyptian walk behind crap to do hook ups before, because someones area was housed in a catacomb. Not fun.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_c-FRuQYOFCs/SDWHuoFo4GI/AAAAAAAAAP8/VJwOJ3lvXsk/s320/walk.jpg)
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: tooki on October 07, 2018, 12:37:05 pm
Not good:

I recon we could crowd source finding a new place for her if she lets us know the budget and requirements.
If there's anyone in the electronics world who deserves that kind of help, it's Fran. Historical preservation is not financially productive, yet IMHO extremely important.

If just a quarter of her 80K subscribers pitched in 25 bucks each, that'd cover moving and construction costs as well as make a massive down payment to buy a building. Renting just isn't viable in the volatile, skyrocketing real estate market of any halfway-desirable US city.


PITA and part of living in the Tenanted world. I have had it happen to me commercially at the end of lease. I was offered a new lease with a 50% hike or else. I suggested impolitely I would be taking the or else option and they could place their bluestone building somewhere appropriate  >:D

No need for outrage or response or campaigns just a sad/annoying event in the quirky, offbeat and slightly kooky (good thing) that is Franlabs  :-+
This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
This is what angers me about rental agreements in USA: they are barely worth the paper they're printed on, as far as tenant security goes.

<rant>One of the things I (as an American) appreciate about Switzerland is that tenants are very sensibly protected. (In the US, where tenants are protected, it's often poorly implemented, leading to abuse at the expense of landlords.) Like, if you have a lease, and the building is sold… well, tough luck, new owner, you must adhere to the lease, and you can't just kick someone out with a month's notice. That's the thing that I really hate about US leases: you can end it on far too short notice. Here in CH, it's 3 months notice and not before the lease ends. (If a tenant wants to break the lease, they must also give 3 months notice, or find nominate a suitable replacement tenant. This seems like a very equitable system to me.) And you also can't just raise rent arbitrarily — you can raise it to cover costs and then some, just not open-ended. (I moved into my current apartment right as this neighborhood had begun to gentrify, so I essentially locked in a rent quite a bit below market rate these days. And since inflation here is essentially zero, there have been no cost increases to justify a higher rent.)

I realize that USA has designed its real estate system and laws around homeownership, not rental. But given how real estate prices have skyrocketed, and real wages have remained flat, this just isn't a sustainable model. We can do better.</rant>
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: station240 on October 07, 2018, 12:56:02 pm
Also lets not forget, the stuff Dave sells comes pre-assembled and pre-packaged.
Were the EEVBlog lab being use to assemble PCBs, cases, package equipment etc, it would need a lot more space too.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 07, 2018, 01:18:47 pm
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
None of the above presents a particularly welcoming environment for fellow EE/tech nerds who happen to genetically differ from the dominant profile in only one of 46 chromosomes... To me, it doesn't have a place here, regardless of how normal and species-survival-critical a behavior might be in the wild, if it doesn't affect what happens in the engineering, I think it's best left aside.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: sokoloff on October 07, 2018, 01:27:15 pm
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
This is what angers me about rental agreements in USA: they are barely worth the paper they're printed on, as far as tenant security goes.

<rant>One of the things I (as an American) appreciate about Switzerland is that tenants are very sensibly protected. (In the US, where tenants are protected, it's often poorly implemented, leading to abuse at the expense of landlords.) Like, if you have a lease, and the building is sold… well, tough luck, new owner, you must adhere to the lease, and you can't just kick someone out with a month's notice. That's the thing that I really hate about US leases: you can end it on far too short notice.
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy. Around here (MA and NH), a new building owner absolutely does inherit the leases of existing tenants and there are very few cases where commercial tenants can be forced out against their will. (Negotiated settlements and non-renewals do happen all the time, of course.) I'm looking at some commercial property in NH and the very first thing we reviewed with the current owner is the status of the existing leases and renewal options. (In my case, I'm interested in keeping the tenants, but either way, I want to know what I'm buying into.)

Assuming she's not going to be kicked out against her will prior to July '19, she might be able to reach a cash settlement to leave earlier (if that's acceptable/preferable to her) or can stay until then.

If the facts are as above, I don't see this as a particular failure of the US real estate system and norms, but simply a natural conclusion of "you have more control over your real estate if you own it than if you don't".
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 07, 2018, 02:01:07 pm
a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up

I need a bench like that for the lab. The mailbag bench doesn't cut it as I have to keep it at least reasonably clear.
I'd have 3-4 such benches if I had a big open lab, so you can have a few projects ongoing at once and you can leave then so they don't get disturbed.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 07, 2018, 02:13:55 pm
Also lets not forget, the stuff Dave sells comes pre-assembled and pre-packaged.
Were the EEVBlog lab being use to assemble PCBs, cases, package equipment etc, it would need a lot more space too.

Indeed.
I have done some small scale assembly, and have tested thousands of boards in my 50sqm lab. Packaging and shipping was on the floor in a few sqm available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgbIn_7z8Ng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgbIn_7z8Ng)

The current 88sqm is too small, 120sqm would be more what I really need to not be cramped. Include my storage bunker and that's close to Fran.
Fran does more stuff than me, so 185sqm is definitely not too big. And Fran said it's the size she's always found she needed for 20 years or whatever, and I can certainly believe it.

I should consolidate my lab and office into one bigger space, but it's about $50k in rent.
Trio Test moved out their office in the same business park which was about 130sqm and it was very nice, but again, about $50k in rent.
Also, setting up a lab with all the required lighting and benches and a zillion parts doesn't make for a clean space when they come around to inspect.
Not to mention the hassle of moving, but it would at least force me to clean up   ;D
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: EEVblog on October 07, 2018, 02:17:49 pm
She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.

That's what just happened to my office space, I'm now on month to month, so they could boot me out any time now.
There was no financial benefit to signing another multi-year lease so I didn't bother.
Getting booted out of the office space wouldn't be much of a hassle, it's just desks and boxes.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Messtechniker on October 07, 2018, 02:48:16 pm
Guys and gals,
stop wasting your time with this useles discussion.

If I were anywhere close, I would offer some assistance in moving all that gear.

Looking at the videos, moving such a lab will involve quite some man and lady power. I'd expect some 80 to 100 man hours (10 volunteers each working 8 to 10 hours or so) to get it all out and roughly back in at the new place, depending on distance of course.




Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 07, 2018, 02:53:22 pm
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
I agree. Just look at what Rxpilot is doing with only a 400 square feet garage. More space costs more money.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 07, 2018, 05:13:37 pm
i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.

temporary folding table. no.

work bench access being blocked by cabinet.

crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.

I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available.  I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.

Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?





that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 07, 2018, 05:35:44 pm
a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up

I need a bench like that for the lab. The mailbag bench doesn't cut it as I have to keep it at least reasonably clear.
I'd have 3-4 such benches if I had a big open lab, so you can have a few projects ongoing at once and you can leave then so they don't get disturbed.

The number of benches you need will probably turn out to be something like n + 3, where n is however many you currently have or have space for.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 07, 2018, 05:38:29 pm
i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.

temporary folding table. no.

work bench access being blocked by cabinet.

crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.

I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available.  I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.

Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?





that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.

Sometimes you need to compromise between what you need, and what you can afford. If fran can't afford something, then she needs to figure something else out.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: nctnico on October 07, 2018, 05:51:48 pm
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: james_s on October 07, 2018, 06:08:10 pm
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.


In most of the cases I see, the new owner is going to demolish the building and replace it with a tower having trendy high end retail in the ground floor and expensive luxury condos above. What the new owner gains is a tremendous amount of profit.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: apis on October 07, 2018, 06:11:22 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 07, 2018, 11:24:25 pm
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
I agree. Just look at what Rxpilot is doing with only a 400 square feet garage. More space costs more money.

Are any of you even remotely qualified to evaluate such needs?

Do you make engineering videos and have a business manufacturing products?

I'm probably as close as it gets to doing the same stuff as Fran and I have 127sqm total vs Fran's 180sqm, and I can assure you that I could really do with some more space.
If someone has spent decades being productive in 2000sqft then who's to say they don't need all that space again?

Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
Post by: EEVblog on October 07, 2018, 11:27:08 pm
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.

It's clear they want the building for their own use. Happens all the time when someone buys a commercial space.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Halcyon on October 07, 2018, 11:31:32 pm
Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!

 :-DD

Comment of the week.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 08, 2018, 12:39:25 am
i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.

temporary folding table. no.

work bench access being blocked by cabinet.

crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.

I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available.  I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.

Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?





that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.

Sometimes you need to compromise between what you need, and what you can afford. If fran can't afford something, then she needs to figure something else out.

i never said you can't make money or work in that space but I am just saying its not a good work environment. He made a compromise between work space and quality of equipment being used. The quality of equipment that he has is decent but none the less the space is over packed 3-4 times and the storage methods, furniture, work ability, etc is low quality. Most people would be very frustrated to work there.

The human interface design of that room is poor due to the decisions he made, but it seems that for him the juice is worth the squeeze.

The eevblog laboratory is also cramped and has loads of inconveniences like the use of tupperware plastic containers to house equipment, open shelves, tons of stuff on the floor.

In my opinion a good laboratory will have a austere feel to it. Frantone clearly has the same feelings as I do.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 08, 2018, 04:04:33 am
One idea, Detroit. Lots of people in similar situations have ended up in Detroit where large spaces are available for a pittance because of the situation there. Also, other parts of PA. Pittsburgh area for example. Or Cleveland, might have warehouse space to spare.

However, that may be cut off in the future by the price of heating. If the price of natural gas goes up a lot like they say it will, due to exports, its going to be insanely expensive heating a large place, nomatter where it is in the US. Like it is in Europe.

These kinds of situations put people under a kind of stress that even just by itself is neurotoxic. I can't overemphasize the importance of this. A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.

If I were her I would try to pare down the bulk of my stuff. If she does that in a well thought out methodical way she'll be able to keep the things that matter to her but she cant be wasting any time hoping its going to change, if a miracle occurs, great but she cant count on that. This huge shift is happening everywhere. It happened to me. I had to give away 3/4 of what I owned. Its impossible to sell things on short notice.

It will not be easy finding another place to live, let alone a 'lab' in an urban area, without a very well paying job and perfect credit. And often they want a little under the table too. Thats what she should focus on. Living space.  Its very very hard to find a live work space. The future is people living in dorm like shared spaces (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-grown-ups-san-francisco.html). Basically living like college students again. (Blessedly now, they might be able to find a unit with its own bathroom! That would be almost as good as a small apartment in a city where there are often good, cheap ways to eat out)
It can get really desperate. When I lived in SF several times I had to extricate people from spaces in my building they werent supposed to live in (under the front stairs, where we kept the garbage cans, and old abandoned storage rooms in the damp dark basement. Whos to say if we wont end up in rabbit hutch like "cage homes (https://allthatsinteresting.com/cage-homes-hong-kong)" like the poor in Hong Kong do.

When people are trying to drive you out, what can I say. Its not a safe situation to be in.

She could end up in a really bad situation.

Wealthy people don't understand the rest of the human race's values when they have dollar signs in their eyes. They see buying properties, tarting them up and reselling them to make a quick profit as their entitlement. Really. "Everybody else is getting rich", they say, doing this, why not them too? Its like a game for them.

If poor people try to hang on to spaces they have professionals who they hire to come in and drive them out. Professional building clearers. They can make it impossible for anybody who has to keep a job or who needs to sleep, breathe, etc. to live in a building. The stories I could tell people would just blow your minds. I've been through this.

She really doesn't want to become a speed bump on their highway to riches. If she cannot afford an attorney to fight it out (and it looks like that would be really hard to find, as they are super expensive.) she should just be happy she has some time because of her lease, and move. Try to find another place to live first. Thats the #1 priority. She needs to get on top of it because other things are likely coming that will displace lots of others so soon she will be competing with them. And many of them will likely be better off financially. Still working and needing to stay near jobs, nearing retirements, etc. Thanks to our President, the REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER.

Older people like Fran and myself are still living in another, gentler era. We're not really so realistic. For better or for worse, thats just the way we are.

Fran if you read this, your health is the thing you need to think about, the sooner you decide to deal with this and start finding good places for your stuff and self, the better off you'll be in terms of your chances of finding a new lab too. Don't become a paralyzed 'deer in the headlights', if you do you will sink into despair and not be able to find a new place. Paradoxically, like employment, the more you 'need' something like that the harder it is to find it. All that old equipment may be interesting for historical reasons but its big and bulky and not as useful as newer equipment in a pragmatic electronics sense. You have to move on. Thats how to improve your chances of finding another challenge and maybe you will luck out. Its more likely than not if you rise to the challenge, but if you dont its going to be very hard.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 08, 2018, 04:48:11 am
Detroit is an area that could really use a little gentrification. The problem is that once the ball starts rolling, it's really hard to stop.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 08, 2018, 05:55:56 am
Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)

Are you sure you measured the sq ft properly? My space is 270 sq ft and yours does not look 4 times bigger.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rdl on October 08, 2018, 11:12:23 am
She speaks of being able to safely walk to the supermarket and restaurants where she lives now and of not really needing an automobile. So the need is not just for a new workspace but a new neighborhood.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2018, 11:43:50 am
Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)

Are you sure you measured the sq ft properly? My space is 270 sq ft and yours does not look 4 times bigger.

My lab is 50sqm
I have two separate spaces in two different buildings. Three if you count my storage bunker.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2018, 11:46:39 am
The eevblog laboratory is also cramped and has loads of inconveniences like the use of tupperware plastic containers to house equipment, open shelves, tons of stuff on the floor.
In my opinion a good laboratory will have a austere feel to it. Frantone clearly has the same feelings as I do.

Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 08, 2018, 01:27:00 pm
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 08, 2018, 02:12:30 pm
Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
I've always wondered about why you've chosen to rent multiple spaces rather than consolidating, though I understand you might not want to share anything and everything.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 08, 2018, 02:13:51 pm
One idea, Detroit. Lots of people in similar situations have ended up in Detroit where large spaces are available for a pittance because of the situation there. Also, other parts of PA. Pittsburgh area for example. Or Cleveland, might have warehouse space to spare.
I thought about the same exact thing. However, since she mentioned on the video she is concerned about the neighbourhood safety, I can't help but think what copper thieves would do with a treasure trove of "metals for scrapping" at her lab in the middle of an abandoned area of Detroit (IIRC, certain areas are not even policed anymore due to lack of residents/funds, but I am not sure if this was FUD I read somewhere).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Jr460 on October 08, 2018, 02:14:45 pm
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

I knew someone that had a small retail store in a mall.  It was a good location and was doing OK.  Then the large main anchor store moved out.   That killed a lot of his walk ins, the "oh while we are here let's take a look traffic".   On top of that his share for the HVAC and maint of the common space when up.   The store that moved, because they rented the largest space, paid a large share of those costs.   The cost got re-calculated and all the smaller shop renters had to make up the difference.   As more stores moved out, the costs to the others skyrocketed.

It is not all about location.

A small 5-6 unit strip mall.  One unit was a salon that was run by the landlord and couldn't make a go of it.   It sat empty for some time until two people I know leased it.  Since it was already setup as a salon, it didn't take much for it to get up and going.  They did great, mainly because their long term customers stayed with them, and they did really good work at a good price.   When the lease came up for a second renewal, the landlord seeing how much business they had just about doubled the rent, pushing them out.  The landlord thought that now it has a lot of traffic, She could take it back over, just a change of owners and staff and name, the same people will keep coming to the salon.   

Of course the plan didn't work for the landlord, and on top of that traffic to whole strip mall crashed and the pub next door with very good food closed up. 

Greed.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2018, 02:17:28 pm
Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
I've always wondered about why you've chosen to rent multiple spaces, though I understand you might not want to share anything and everything.

It's a bit complicated financially, logistically, and plus market availability wise.
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 08, 2018, 03:23:21 pm
The problem is, thats what everybody wants.

Ironically, its the people who really need walkability who are suffering the most by the shifts. (maybe they don't own a car or even drive, but still need to get to work.)

People who were born in and grew up in city neighborhoods but whose incomes have not kept up are the ones who are getting forced out in large numbers now. And there really is no place for most of them to go thats likely to work out well. Its going to get much worse before it gets better (if it ever does)

She speaks of being able to safely walk to the supermarket and restaurants where she lives now and of not really needing an automobile. So the need is not just for a new workspace but a new neighborhood.

There are a lot of people in this situation and they should join up and set up organizations to buy properties in areas unlikely to gentrify soon. Outside of towns so unlikely to be added to redevelopment projects.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 08, 2018, 04:46:56 pm
lol detroit walkability, more like driving around in dead reckoning
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cerebus on October 08, 2018, 05:20:37 pm
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.

Out of curiosity, in what way? Bear in mind that most of us non-antipodeans have no clue what's happening in your local economy.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: jmelson on October 08, 2018, 08:18:14 pm
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Well, there are incubators and makerspaces, which can be very helpful to our types of people.  One incredible one is Tx/Rx labs in Houston.  I visited there once for a conference, and it was amazing.  They also had the best electronics facilities I've ever seen in a makerspace.  But, there are a bunch of others that are also pretty good.

At least some parts of Detroit may be too far gone to be a viable location right now, but there are plenty of other cities where crime is tolerable and property values are not crazy.  I don't know if Fran really WANTS to stay in New York, but there are a lot of other places that could be a lot more affordable.  I'm in a suburb of St. Louis, MO, and have my lab/production facility in the basement of my house.  I have a Bridgeport mill converted to CNC, a 3500-Lb lathe, a sheet metal shear and finger brake, pick and place machine, and electronics lab down there.  At least, in the past, I made great use of the home office deduction, too, although the tax laws have been changed, so they may not do as much in the coming years.

Jon
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2018, 08:57:30 pm
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
Out of curiosity, in what way? Bear in mind that most of us non-antipodeans have no clue what's happening in your local economy.

Two years ago there was a massive shortage of stock in my business park for rent or for sale.
I would prefer to buy a bigger place, but there simply wasn't anything for sale at the time and I needed the extra space.
Not to mention that prices have more than doubled in my business park for commercial realeststate, something that was almost unprecendented before (commercial realeststate never goes up like residential)
So if I wanted to buy, I needed to do that about 3 years ago, I missed that boat.
Now there is a lot more stock available for rent, so there is more choice to find something suitable.
And rents haven't gone up so now renting one big space makes sense where it didn't before, it made more sense to buy instead of rent 3 years ago.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: a59d1 on October 08, 2018, 09:10:53 pm
A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.

No sources cited.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: a59d1 on October 08, 2018, 09:13:12 pm
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(

If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 08, 2018, 11:52:42 pm
Look at the emerging science of psychoneuroimmunology - and especially allostasis and allostatic load (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=allostatic+load).

These insults are cumulative. Racism is the most studied but other forms of similar discrimination are identical physiologically. So are certain other kinds of visceral pain, say the realization that one has been cheated out of something important, by some trick, the sickness or death of a close family member, or even a messy divorce. Health care costs, paradoxically, increase health care costs.

Fear of loss of housing is also a severe shock that figures high up in Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

The things that are then measurable are things like "all source mortality"(death) (and/or "morbidity"(disease))  They can use other statistical techniques.. comparing deaths in one cohort to another, say between countries with otherwise similar sets of conditions and development. Another useful search term is "excess deaths"

Usually used in a context like "excess deaths amenable to improved health care" and or "excess deaths amenable to improved access to health care".

But the new development is our understanding of where the allostatic load fits in and why these problems occur. Stress hormones - glucocorticoids (steroids) are powerful stimulants of the immune response made by the body to keep us alive when we are facing a direct threat to our survival. But they also are neurotoxins. This is why people just fall apart when subjected to continuous stress. Cortisol will dysregulate the HPA and destroy large amounts of grey matter in the brain over time. (The brain actually shrinks, causing the sunken eyes effect.) They also impact the delicate structures connecting the two sides of the brain. This is why people who have been under a lot of stress for a long time (more than a few weeks) often develop incurable brain damage ("PTSD") It was first observed in World War I in soldiers in the trenches of warfare.

Some substances, curcumin is one, may be neuroprotective but come at a cost in terms of loss of the (necessary for survival) fear response.

This science is still in its infancy.

You can find out much more on PubMed.

A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.

No sources cited.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 09, 2018, 12:29:53 am
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(

If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?

Getting richer flipping property is relatively easy, getting rich, not so much. You really need to have a substantial amount of cash on hand to buy up a lot of those properties, can't just go take out a bank loan and if you do, the interest will eat up much of the profit. Once one has a certain amount of wealth it gets progressively easier to acquire more wealth.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 09, 2018, 12:34:19 am
you also want to be willing to deal with massive amounts of utter bullshit.

there is the hidden cost of going to visit those properties and having to maintain some kind of vision. Then renting and being a land lord to some degree or hiring people that don't suck. It;s a headache. You could try to get by with heavy handed lease agreements and stuff but that limits client base.

Then you have all sorts of bullshit relating to industry in the area, zoning, chemicals storage for business use. And you can easily get involved in litigation.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 09, 2018, 12:37:19 am
Ah, OK, so it's not such a free and easy path to riches then which I think was a59d1's point...
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 09, 2018, 12:41:09 am
Ah, OK, so it's not such a free and easy path to riches then which I think was a59d1's point...

If you hire professionals to do everything for you, you can get by just being an ideas man but the margins become slimmer and slimmer.

Even for a simple rental something like a shady HVAC repair man or plumber can fuck you in the ass hard.. you need to patrol that shit or just be willing to have alot of exposure. If you have alot you might need to hire managers, which you then need to super vise. It's basically similar to running a business. If you know how to do all that stuff to some degree to where systems remain maintained and functional you can save a pretty sum of money.. but then you need to be on call basically. Otherwise you just need to trust that a repair is good.. or you might end up fighting with contractors.

It can be the stupidest shit, like say you have an out door HVAC unit and you hire a lawn care guy. Tennant does not give a shit, but wants the AC back on as per the lease. Then you need to either shell out hard for a repair.. or if you wanna save money you can investigate the manner yourself to see if maybe the lawn care guy broke it, or if you can prove he broke it. Easy 2000$ loss right there. Typically if you own the property your pretty careful to at lease observe, determine if damage occurred after services, work being done, etc but you can't really 'demand' the tenant do that.

It still either comes down to having a good relationship with the tenant to have him do some leg work (inspection, pictures, talking to the repair people), or for you to work as a remote facilities manager, or just write some insane lease that says you don't give a fuck if something breaks (which people don't wanna go for unless its really cheap). The financially reasonable/easy way is to get property where you are and organize your life so you have time to deal with those issues. If you are working a 40 hour a week job and the property is 3 hours drive, you can go mad if you had to work late then you need to deal with some broke crap in another city. Home owner might know how to use a snake to unclog a toilet. Tenant will likely ask for a plumber. Thats 200$ for a clogged john. God forbid the heating goes out in the winter.

I don't know how it scales financially when you own alot of properties though.

Also keep in mind when your own property breaks, you usually know the town/city and have contacts, so you know whats reasonable, and you might call a few services to shop around.. and over time you get to know the best services etc so you can save money. If you need to do that for 10 houses in 10 different locations imagine how much home work you have. It's not like you have good neighbors you can ask.. your just some land lord.

You can also get blood pressure raising stuff like someone demanding a carpenter to come in to tighten a screw on a cabinet door (for real). Electrical inspection because someone 'smelled something'.

Someone in my family was a super.. and believe me it can be super frustrating. Going to your property and you see the place is a pig sty.

You kinda need to treat it like a investment I think, set rules for yourself and follow them (i.e. make a plan to actually be professional and call a plumber or tech immediately, rather then trying save a few bucks by begging tenants to do things, or be tempted to decide to 'drive around doing over time' to save a few bucks... ) then you can focus on buying more property.. but its hard to accept stupid ass cash hemorrhaging that can theoretically be prevented. When your big its probobly easier, but then you can end up getting a bad reputation because you don't do your homework with correct service choice (if you end up having a brand name etc).. people get pissed if they talk to someone in the area and they find out your hiring the biggest slack asses. 

There is a old funny cartoon about this, called the PJ's.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 09, 2018, 01:08:00 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1tMr5yEwM0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1tMr5yEwM0)

then there is also that movie with Joe Pesci 'the super'. I probably like this movie more then most since I grew up with someone in my family being a super in a rather bad building with super greedy owners.

As for flipping, thats everyones plan... homes can take a while to sell but rent quick.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 09, 2018, 02:28:19 am
I keep hearing that everything connected to the US and investment is being puffed up tremendously by large investment from Asia in particular. There is a perception that the US (and Australia) are two of the safest places to invest - while many other countries are - at least their inhabitants believe, so extremely corrupt, so corrupt they are on the verge of revolutions.

Also there is the huge demographic hump of older people, coming as it is just as technology is eliminating (soon) billions of jobs. Plus we have trade obligations where other countries claim we owe them access to the shrinking pools of jobs we have, in perpetuity! After all, they are cheaper.

This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets.  Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.

At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(

If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?

Getting richer flipping property is relatively easy, getting rich, not so much. You really need to have a substantial amount of cash on hand to buy up a lot of those properties, can't just go take out a bank loan and if you do, the interest will eat up much of the profit. Once one has a certain amount of wealth it gets progressively easier to acquire more wealth.

Yes, exactly. Just ask our President, the "self made billionaire". (cough)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 09, 2018, 10:02:14 am
LMAO no. The US is not special in this.

Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).


This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets.  Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
:-DD

Riiight.

The UK is dumping its social safety nets because the tories are just as heartless, deluded, and evil as the GOP.

Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 09, 2018, 04:19:35 pm
LMAO no. The US is not special in this.

Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).


I'm a little surprised they don't have serious problems with squatting if that many are uninhabited. I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors. I certainly wish they'd do that down in my area. Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 09, 2018, 04:44:15 pm
I'm a little surprised they don't have serious problems with squatting if that many are uninhabited. I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors.
They’re generally high-end urban properties, many are apartments, many are row houses, some are standalone buildings. In any case, as investment properties that they use instead of hotels when in town, they will have caretakers. I’ve heard of roads in London where the only actual residents are the handful of live-in caretakers hired to keep the houses safe and clean, and to manage the gardeners, etc.  :(

From an economics standpoint, a problem is that they’re only used a short time out of the year, if at all, or even if there’s a live-in caretaker, it might be one person in a house that should live 8...

I googled a bit and it also seems that a ton of the foreign-owned buildings are rental properties. So off the market for local buyers, but not unoccupied at least.


I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors. I certainly wish they'd do that down in my area.
Indeed!!! I’m not entirely sure what the motivation is for places like London and New York to not restrict foreign buyers, given the acute affordable housing shortages in both. Is it just property tax greed?


Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 09, 2018, 04:47:42 pm
The Internet (in its capacity as a surveillance wet dream come true) is replacing the safety nets.

I venture to say we will not see many more revolutions (than we did in the past).

 Nor, I suspect are we likely to see true democracy, (meaning the kind that can actually fix things) unless a great many things change. FTAs that limit the policy space for things of economic relevance, in the interest of certainty for MNCs, (with a sop thrown in to pay lip service to economic integration) are incompatible with democracy. Because people would vote to fix problems, and they would never vote to do things that maximized the income stream for investors, as policy is forced into now.

For democracy to work, people need to have a 'commons' where everything can be discussed - even policy not desired by the MNCs.

With the number of working people likely to decline greatly, society has to figure out what to do about the people who suddenly find themselves and the skills they worked for so long to gain, unable to earn income. In the environment we are entering carving anything in stone is a mistake, but that is exactly what is being done, in a panic reaction. very bad decisions are being made in a rush to "future proof" the future.

Right now, most of us, are very lacking in understanding of the implications of, for example, machine learning. Why? Part of it is intentional, people who think the current state of everything will continue as it is are much easier to manipulate. Also, people who think a current state of employment is about to end have statistically been shown to be far more likely to commit frauds.

Although some want to give up on educating people (whats the point, they say, "if few will be good enough to ever get jobs", why give people unrealistic expectations") thats very stupid because what is likely to happen when people are freed of work is ironically, an explosion of hugely creative activities that ironically are likely to create lots of new wealth.

But only if people have health, and a good quality of life and friends to share it with, what you were saying, tooki.

What a shame that they have made expanding safety nets a "taking" that must be compensated to corporations, isnt it?  The kinds of "public good" that we all can see would be a plus in communities, is forbidden because its encouraged by a government entity, who are supposed to never hurt businesses investments.

So no more non-market anything, unless it already existed 20 years ago and isnt changed. It can only be privatized, never re-nationalized, thats the ideology. A one way ratchet exists. (Shhh!)

This is what I mean about people being ignorant.

People also really need to understand computer science better, thats for sure.

And its implications for 'civil society' in all sorts of ways. Especially employment.


LMAO no. The US is not special in this.

Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).


This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets.  Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
:-DD

Riiight.

The UK is dumping its social safety nets because the tories are just as heartless, deluded, and evil as the GOP.

Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically.

Quote
Tooki: "Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically."

Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.

Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.

The democracy we can't be allowed to have, now, as some see it. Precisely because we need it so badly.

Imagine you are on top of the world now.


To you, every change is a threat, because you're on top NOW.

By on top I don't mean any specific country, I mean the people who are on top in all countries, and nobody else.

As far as the rest of us, everywhere, we're representative of the so called "mob's" thinking (yes, some people actually do use that term)

So, divide and conquer.

Therefore the stuff we're getting from the media is lacking any coverage at all on most of the most important issues and dominated by issues that are designed to divide and conquer us when in fact we would all agree on the important stuff we're not told about.

We're being manipulated VERY skillfully to create a 'record' for the future of fake consent to things we've never (and will never be) told about.

Look up 'shock therapy' in the context of what we've done to other countries. (Most Americans don't know anything about this.) But now they are getting ready to do the same things to us.  Thats why there is all the commotion.

Both 'parties' in the US are playing a 'good cop bad cop' routine.

And the political candidates in many cases limit themselves to these wedge issues.

To cover up never getting anything fixed for as long as possible why they try to nail future policy down via backroom FTAs. (which do an end run around democracy)

The very few (you could count them on your fingers) candidates who discuss the real issues are either ostracized by all the rest, and everything they say is spun in a way as to shred any sense it makes, by the media, or fake and very skilled at deception, and likely plan to never win. By this the will of the people is frustrated.

This pattern is likely being replicated all around the world.

Here its easy to prove by how they structure it. But people are so heavily misled they wouldn't recognize it when they saw it. They often think the bits of real news are "fake news"!

I would be willing to bet the exact same thing is going on now in the UK. And MANY other countries.

Just wait and see, They are 20-30 years ahead of us on this. Thats why they are rich and we're not.

They see themselves as the true owners of everything. Its kind of like the enclosures of the past, what they are doing. Shifting the beneficial ownership of the planet's resources and policy totally to themselves.

I can't go any deeper into this because I'd get tossed off this blog. Do some research in the academic literature on trade and you'll see the disconnect.

Some day this will all be uncovered and people are going to be disgusted by how sordid it is.

It will make all these other issues seem insignificant. They all really must be having a good laugh at all of our expense over drinks at the end of the day.

I could be wrong I suppose, and I am sure I am on some of the minor points Ive made. My mental model is just a hypothesis. But, the anomalies that I see are so damning that its 100% clear to me that the model most of us think is true, isn't.

If it was we would have fixed a lot of our problems long ago. We're very much victims of abuse who fail to realize how brutal it was until after its over because we've not ever had a state of non-abuse to compare it to. 

Hint, things would work for people. Most people would have happy lives.

Diversity of opinions and backgrounds would be celebrated - not just tolerated, or even worse, attacked.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 09, 2018, 05:32:02 pm
Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 09, 2018, 05:47:01 pm
Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
Yeah, I think a lot of Americans (at least) really overextended themselves when buying, and bought properties they could afford the mortgage on, but not the maintenance. :/
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 09, 2018, 05:56:31 pm
Two words, eminent domain.

If you live in the US, everything changed in 2005-2006. Now its perfectly legal for some real estate developer to displace you because they have some money making proposal which your local government sees as awarding benefit, to them.

Why let you capture the increase in value when your track record of moneymaking is generic, while that of Mr. Developer is good.

As real economic activity declines, churning increases exponentially.

Nobody makes any money by people just staying where they are and living nice lives. Thats their attitude. In some areas there is precious little other economic activity (other than churning) and its going to get far worse as more and more things are automated and tax receipts fall.

Few communities, even the ones you think would or should, take the long views that need to be taken. When they try to, they eventually find that FTAs stand in the way.   This is, and will become more and more difficult to change because its an international game where everything is now 'tradable'. Including jobs.

Because there are far too few one eyed, let alone sighted men and women in the kingdom of the blind.

...

Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 09, 2018, 05:59:23 pm
Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.

Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.
I doubt that the rate of knowledge increase is exponential. I can't see any mechanism that would be substantially higher than quadratic with time. (The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: apis on October 09, 2018, 06:39:46 pm
The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.
World population isn't really growing anymore, or rather, the birthrate is more or less constant now. The population is still growing for a little while longer because there are still fewer people in the oldest generations that are dying than the youngest generations having babies, but that will change and stabilise pretty soon.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: technix on October 09, 2018, 06:55:48 pm
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.
World population isn't really growing anymore, or rather, the birthrate is more or less constant now. The population is still growing for a little while longer because there are still fewer people in the oldest generations that are dying than the youngest generations having babies, but that will change and stabilise pretty soon.
Parts of the world is actually experiencing a population decline. Germany has been on this track for quite a while and has heavily relied on eastern European workforce brought over thanks to EU and Schengen Agreement. Even in China almost all major cities, Peking, Shanghai, Guangzhou and HK are all suffering from an aging population and a decline in local workforce, and having to rely on people from other places to even run the city. The Chinese example is particularly alarming since the customs of family reunion during Chinese New Year means during that time the major cities are almost empty with a lot of semi-essential services shut down. (It is lucky that China has employed AI and automation in those cities, so during that holiday the essential services can be largely left on unmonitored autopilot.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 09, 2018, 08:13:59 pm
If she was an owner and was getting pushed out by eminent domain she would be entitled to "fair market value" but studies show that often the former owners got substantially less than fair market value at the time, and right after that it shot up.

As a renter, it depends on if her community has a 'just cause' eviction /condo conversion law.

But they - those kinds of laws, which generally limit rent increases and other changes to an arbitrary figure based on the estimated "consumer price index" - as well as other laws that require some 'below market rate' housing (which is still way too expensive for the people being displaced, who often don't even drive so living in rural areas, will be at best life changing, more likely than not it will be unmanageable.) be built, instead of all multi-million dollar condos) are on shaky legal ground nationally, because of the changes that have been occurring here recently.

(Also, what happens when or if the bubble breaks which you know it must, eventually.)

Miraculously, most people here, for the most part, have been kept completely oblivious to these changes by obviously phony candidates that puff up their confidence by telling them what they think they want to hear, even if it has little if any resemblance to whats really going on.

Generally, even in cities which are alleged to be the most favorable to renters, the owners hold pretty much all of the cards, that is, unless a bigger fish comes along and is able to displace them. Which happens a lot if an area doesn't maintain its spending.

This is why ending so called "net neutrality" is so important to certain people. An incredible amount of data collection is enabled by a total lack of entitlements to privacy.

It will make it possible to make all sorts of decisions, including city planning decisions based on the real data of how much the residents in neighborhoods spend. (and what they spend it on) Also their health status and habit, friends, everything.

Sort of like China's "Social Credit" system if it was strictly based on profit and spending.

The real change has come about because of a new emphasis on profit, and a shift in the body of law (see Ronald Coase's 1960 paper, "The Problem of Social Cost," ) that says that breaking contracts of all kinds at all levels of society is okay if more money is made by breaking them than by keeping them, its 'more efficient'..

"Efficient". Remember that word.

Obviously this shift is music to the ears of the very wealthy, all around the world, after years of being told their behavior was immoral and antisocial, now its not only okay, its desirable for might to make right. That is basically what fascism said, with a modernized spin to it.

Because this obviously would reduce profits for people to know this was happening, the general populace has been kept ignorant of these changes- so people have not reduced spending or started saving every penny, thats more profitable!

In country after country, government is prohibited from doing anything that reduces profits, pretty much now. This includes the profits of foreign investors, or its supposed to. Illustrating how countries no longer matter, class does. The wealthy would rather help out other wealthy people, than help poor people anywhere.

So a justification can be found for basically anything.

The argument against limits on rent increases and arbitrary evictions is a market based one, that laws which limit rent increases for existing tenants prevent the building of lots of new market rate housing which would in theory lower costs for new people moving into a city.

In practice that rarely if ever happens, though.

The other side of the coin is that longterm tenants who have been reliable tenants and have paid the increases without complaint, become less and less desirable to keep compared to new tenants who might may not only the going rate, they also may pay fees, or even bribes which are non-refundable.

Tenants of bad landlords may often find themselves increasingly on the front lines of a war. They cant even offer to pay more money because thats forbidden by the laws. And moving into another apartment in the same city will require much more money plus an annual income customarily two or preferably three times the rent.

Some tenants may be able to pay that but long term tenants rarely are, also they tend to not understand the big picture because its been years since they had to look for a place to live.

Plus the government,federal, state and local governments are not supposed to build any new public housing. As far as replacing existing public housing. That may also be prohibited.

In the near future it likely depends on whether they have carved out that service sector in advance. (The text I got that from was an EU document, the EU claiming it was for 'transparency' published a single, exceedingly vague document which gives an outline of the changes. The US position is likely just as aggressive or more so but its not public. Australia is also involved. )

So what this means is that money is everything.

As within a period of a decade or even less, the 'going rate' likely soars/has soared.

What then happens is some (a minority) of landlords - depending on their intrinsic mean spiritedness or not, some landlords either totally stop maintaining buildings, or they start activities which are calculated to be 'legal' but which have the effect of driving the better situated existing tenants out.

Ive had the bad luck to be in that situation and I can tell you its total hell.

They might not burn a building down but they might stop maintaining critical systems which seriously impact the tenants, even things as important as a (often shared in older buildings) hydronic heating, fire alarms and sprinklers (common) and lighting in common areas. (or often they steal the electricity for it)

Even in areas where laws then require they stop collecting rent some period after citations issued by building departments are ignored, and notices given (even fining them if they ask for it) tenants are so terrified by the possibility of not ever being able to rent again that they pay anyway.

Even as the landlord is trying to drive them out!

If pipes freeze that will cause flooding which causes a major mold problem that if not immediately addressed makes a building virtually uninhabitable for its future, until its literally gutted and cleaned out. Roofs can literally be falling in on tenants. Still they pay rent.

Because- where are they going to go once blacklisted?

Another tactic is hiring 'work people' (often fake) to do 'renovations' that never end, and 'security guards" and even fake other tenants, to harass the inhabitants. They go to lengths to find the weak spot of somebody (for example, say somebody is sick, maybe they have AIDS, or asthma or RA, and are on drugs that leave them vulnerable to opportunistic infections, well, rent an apartment and fill it full of garbage and sick cats and have the litter boxes, overflowing and never cleaned, right next to them - where they share a balcony.

They exploit every possible weakness they can find.

Another tactic is to - as tenants who can move somewhere else, leave, rent the vacant units out on airbnb, to party groups, which makes it impossible for the other tenants who typically have jobs they must go to every day, having slept the night before, making it exceedingly hard to get sleep.

Another tactic is to barrage them with notices of various work which needs to be done, giving the minimum 24 hours notice, making it impossible for people to leave their apartment for any kind of extended period. (even as they make it hell.)

Imagine living in a nice multifamily building thats sold and suddenly apartment after apartment becomes short term rentals.

Housing in US cities like San Francisco and New York is extremely difficult to find. So difficult its increasingly common to find homeless working people. Or maybe they are not officially homeless but desperate enough to live in closets, garages and even camp out in backyards and on roofs.

There is a web site "the worst room" where you can see what your money might buy you in NY and SF now.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 09, 2018, 08:16:02 pm
those nail houses always impressed me.

Sometimes I wonder if Leonidas was reincarnated as chinese.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 09, 2018, 09:41:03 pm
Sokoloff,

For the purpose of this discussion is the difference between "quadratic" and "exponential" growth that material?

Its an interesting comparison.

Suppose we just are discussing what matters to us, the knowledge which comes into the possession of ourselves, the world's population of human beings.

As more and more knowledge is being extracted from data by other means, a certain percentage of that knowledge now and likely more and more in the future will be collected and recorded in manners which make it difficult for us to fully understand it, or perhaps even understand it at all.

That possibility seems to me to illustrate what I meant about technology changing everything really well.

But unless one is directly involved with science (enough to have to deal with this speeding up in a visceral manner) you're far less likely to ever have thoughts about things like the rate of change and if it is accelerating exponentially or quadratically, and instead one likely bases life decisions on inherently flawed estimates of the rate of change in the future, flawed because they are based on one's own perception of the rate of change in the past.

Thats why politicians, economists, etc, again and again make horrible mistakes hugely underestimating the disruption caused by technology, the disruption it causes.

Back in the day, we used to joke that on the Internet everything happened in dog years.  In other words, seven times faster.

(That situation likely was the inspiration for the famous New Yorker cartoon.)  The Internet may not be the science where the biggest most earthshaking changes are happening any more, but its still changing the world very quickly, and not in a way thats likely to have a positive impact on employment.

Unrelated but important. The hype train and the cult of putting 'growth' and 'efficiency' for its own sake above everything else in a sort of race to the bottom on everything that matters to the people of the human race makes no sense to any smart person and indeed it is a Pied Piper leading us into (multiple) disasters.

At its core, its a bad model thats trying its best to obfuscate and steal the amazing gifts technology is giving us. Upon examining its core tenets, one sees that despite its hype, its not trying to facilitate progress, its actually trying to prevent and steal it.

Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.

Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.

I doubt that the rate of knowledge increase is exponential. I can't see any mechanism that would be substantially higher than quadratic with time. (The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.)

We need to start thinking about something important. Setting a good example for our offspring. Being good parents.

Treating others, no matter who or what they are, with respect in the way we ourselves would like to be treated.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 09, 2018, 11:12:53 pm
The melodrama seems to be getting high here.
This is a simple case of a commercial lease and a new owner wanting to end the lease once it's up. Nothing new here at all, happens all day every day in every city in the world.
Fran has a lease, and I doubt they can throw her out until the lease is up, subject to local laws.
It's the risk every company takes when they lease a place. And also the risk the owner takes in giving a lease (that usually includes extension "options"), in that they can't get it back until the lease expires.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: edy on October 09, 2018, 11:21:29 pm
I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors.

Believe it or not, the amount of foreign investment is small.... it is NOT the main reason for prices going up, at least not in Toronto. I don't think that's the case necessarily in Vancouver either, or any of the other major cities.

The main problem is low interest rates, lack of new developments and generally just immigration of mostly ethnic populations (now the MAJORITY in many large Canadian cities) who wish to move to the large cities where they find their communities (food needs, religious, social, language, etc).

I happen to be a minority as well, just not VISIBLE... who happens to live in Toronto also to be close to my community that shares the same needs (schooling, religion, food, social groups, etc). And many people I work with are VISIBLE minorities who also wish to stay close to their ethnic communities. There is a lack of housing, historically low interest rates, and demand/supply is skewed... hence the housing "bubble".

We blame it on the foreign investors but even with them taken out of the picture or taxed like crazy, there is still a huge problem. If you move out of the major cities into small-town Canadian white-majority population areas you will not see this kind of housing feeding frenzy, and you can buy a huge house with tons of land at prices that have barely moved up.

The destruction and renewal of building spaces in large cities is necessary to create more space vertically for condos or other types of tentants because location is key, and the urban sprawl cannot continue indefinitely as it creates even worse traffic, pollution and inefficiencies.

Also, there is a general thought that purchasing property is a means of savings so even if you are paying a huge amount, you figure that it will go up in value and you will eventually cash out when you down-size. So as long as interest is fairly low and you can afford to pay, you buy... even if it seems a crazy amount, because when you rent you will save up NOTHING and build absolutely no equity. And also the longer you wait to enter the market, the harder it will be..

So once again, foreign investors are just a scape-goat for problems caused by our own country that nobody wants to really dig deep and look at. Americans may be more thinking of "melting-pot" mentality so ethnic people will go almost anywhere as long as it is close to their job. But Canadians are used to more of a "patchwork quilt" and so the major cities are attracting and keeping more people because that is where their ethnic social fabric and family and needs are.

Remember... the FREE MARKET will eventually push people away to other smaller cities/communities that are more affordable as long as people are willing to do it, and can give up their ties or rebuild new ones. How bad does it have to be before you leave Toronto? You can ask the same about New Yorkers... they love living in NYC and cannot imagine leaving, even though it costs them more and adds more stress to their lives, they have a love/hate relationship with the city. I lived and commuted through NYC for a number of years and talked to many people about this.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: thm_w on October 09, 2018, 11:23:12 pm
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China)

Quote
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.

https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2 (https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2)
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf)

Quote
Consequently, local  governments  ultimately  control  the  rules  for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed  real  estate  is  much  more  than  the  compensation  fees  given  to  the evictees.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 10, 2018, 12:44:01 am
For the purpose of this discussion is the difference between "quadratic" and "exponential" growth that material?
When discussing or contemplating the pace at which society must adapt to any type of sustained change, the difference between "adapt at a linear rate" (the first differential of x2) and "adapt at an exponential rate" (the first differential of 2x) is massive, IMO.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: technix on October 10, 2018, 01:52:31 am
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China)

Quote
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.

https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2 (https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2)
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf)

Quote
Consequently, local  governments  ultimately  control  the  rules  for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed  real  estate  is  much  more  than  the  compensation  fees  given  to  the evictees.
At least in Shanghai the local authorities is currently maintaining a stiff upper lip regarding evictions - the government can help you hanging out banners, but it is up to the developer to negotiate, and no force is allowed or face immediate criminal liability. As of renters protection most of the residents are renters but they get the same treatment as homeowners really, since there is a belief in China that people should not be stripped of their last roof over their head. Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 10, 2018, 01:59:09 am
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China)

Quote
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.

https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2 (https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2)
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf)

Quote
Consequently, local  governments  ultimately  control  the  rules  for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed  real  estate  is  much  more  than  the  compensation  fees  given  to  the evictees.
At least in Shanghai the local authorities is currently maintaining a stiff upper lip regarding evictions - the government can help you hanging out banners, but it is up to the developer to negotiate, and no force is allowed or face immediate criminal liability. As of renters protection most of the residents are renters but they get the same treatment as homeowners really, since there is a belief in China that people should not be stripped of their last roof over their head. Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.

does she live at her shop? the rules are usually quite different for homes and "professional"
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 10, 2018, 12:59:34 pm
Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
Until someone clearly says that this is more than "we're not renewing anyone's lease once the term runs out", I'm going to work under the assumption that that's what happening, which is a simple, clear, and fair "both sides lived up to the bargain to which they agreed" outcome. I haven't heard anything to the contrary yet.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: schmitt trigger on October 10, 2018, 01:15:38 pm


Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)

This clearly demonstrates, that Nature abhors vacuum.

Specifically in an electronics lab.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: schmitt trigger on October 10, 2018, 01:41:10 pm


You can also get blood pressure raising stuff like someone demanding a carpenter to come in to tighten a screw on a cabinet door (for real). Electrical inspection because someone 'smelled something'.

Someone in my family was a super.. and believe me it can be super frustrating. Going to your property and you see the place is a pig sty.


I have been a small landlord for 32 years. Only two units. Everything, and I mean everything, that you have mentioned is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. It is a whore job.
On top of it, insurance and taxes have been skyrocketing faster than what I can increase the rent.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 10, 2018, 02:17:33 pm
Paterson, NJ, birthplace of beat poet Allen Ginsburg, and the American labor movement, was also the link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0oHPPhF_Q)

...birthplace of the industrial revolution in the US (because of easily available hydro-power from the nearby Passaic River, which Alexander Hamilton and others harnessed).

 Paterson still has a lot of huge, well-illuminated (from natural light) surviving red brick industrial buildings from that period.

I don't know the current status of the buildings (besides the fact that the area recently attained status as a national historic park (https://www.nps.gov/pagr/learn/historyculture/the-birthplace-of-the-american-industrial-revolution.htm)) but my gut feeling is that, if one can deal with the issues of a community thats still struggling with lots of poverty, (IMHO the  best way to do that would be by providing a resource that helped interested people learn about technology!) that it would be an ideal and welcoming place for a maker renaissance, with lots of available warehouse space, and that because of that rich tradition, something like a big maker space could likely get lots of support from the local community and maybe even grants from ???.

It sounds like the kind of proposal that can sometimes get supported by grant funds in various ways.

Because it helps people learn and get their lives going in a positive direction.

I should add the caveat though that parts of Paterson are still very poor, and it has its share of urban problems.  The area near the falls however is pretty and there are still many visible remnants of a thriving industrial area.

Although the area has the classic Rust Belt feel, the huge old buildings have a lot going for them because of the habit back then of providing factories with lots of natural light. The ones that remain, (that have not already been torn down) for the most part have NOT fallen into quite the level of disrepair I've seen elsewhere.

You can check the area out using Google Earth.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: technix on October 11, 2018, 06:35:26 am
Paterson, NJ, birthplace of beat poet Allen Ginsburg, and the American labor movement, was also the link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0oHPPhF_Q)

...birthplace of the industrial revolution in the US (because of easily available hydro-power from the nearby Passaic River, which Alexander Hamilton and others harnessed).

 Paterson still has a lot of huge, well-illuminated (from natural light) surviving red brick industrial buildings from that period.

I don't know the current status of the buildings (besides the fact that the area recently attained status as a national historic park (https://www.nps.gov/pagr/learn/historyculture/the-birthplace-of-the-american-industrial-revolution.htm)) but my gut feeling is that, if one can deal with the issues of a community thats still struggling with lots of poverty, (IMHO the  best way to do that would be by providing a resource that helped interested people learn about technology!) that it would be an ideal and welcoming place for a maker renaissance, with lots of available warehouse space, and that because of that rich tradition, something like a big maker space could likely get lots of support from the local community and maybe even grants from ???.

It sounds like the kind of proposal that can sometimes get supported by grant funds in various ways.

Because it helps people learn and get their lives going in a positive direction.

I should add the caveat though that parts of Paterson are still very poor, and it has its share of urban problems.  The area near the falls however is pretty and there are still many visible remnants of a thriving industrial area.

Although the area has the classic Rust Belt feel, the huge old buildings have a lot going for them because of the habit back then of providing factories with lots of natural light. The ones that remain, (that have not already been torn down) for the most part have NOT fallen into quite the level of disrepair I've seen elsewhere.

You can check the area out using Google Earth.
This kind of reminded me that some rust belt cities might even have above average universities and other infrastructure built back in their heyday but the land price there plummeted due to the factories closing down. If Fran move there she might get easy access to materials and manufacturing services from the remaining factories, can just outright buy what remains of a closed down factory an sell whatever that is in the building to recoup some of the money, a steady source of well educated employees from the universities there, and MIT isn't far from there if she really need a star engineer on her team.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 11, 2018, 12:05:00 pm
but moving to NJ or a 'rust belt' state could be pretty depressing.
not quite moldova but not exactly ivy league . and NJ smells bad.

even driving through some parts of PA I was like 'damn' .

what is it, like ancient turn of the century ware houses with those slatted windows on the ceiling your supposed to open up to keep the heat down?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 11, 2018, 12:22:59 pm
The buildings I've seen have huge south facing windows, lots of them. This was because they were built before electricity was common, for natural light, when factories were largely powered by water. The mills were typically built right alongside major waterways. Those kinds of buildings, when renovated, are really nice.

That is, if they don't turn out to be filled with liquid mercury, as one in Hoboken, I think was. (Unusual situation which displaced an artists collective.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NivagSwerdna on October 11, 2018, 12:50:59 pm
Just my 2c worth...

These replies seem to miss the point of the OP's video....

Fran clearly stated that she has a money problem both with money generally and money in the short term to pay for a move.

So the real issue seems to be revenue generation... There seem to be a number of approaches to that... The most obvious being YouTube ad revenue and Patreon but also Fran has a portfolio of products, both electronic and textile, that have made money in the past.

Perhaps the solution lies more in scaling those products to make money (and possibly outsourcing manufacture to places where labour and space is cheap)?

(Cost of premises is a universal problem... e.g. London Hackspace has just had to move out from central-ish London to the wilds of NW London for similar reasons)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 12, 2018, 08:33:29 am
These replies seem to miss the point of the OP's video....
Fran clearly stated that she has a money problem both with money generally and money in the short term to pay for a move.
So the real issue seems to be revenue generation... There seem to be a number of approaches to that... The most obvious being YouTube ad revene and Patreon but also Fran has a portfolio of products, both electronic and textile, that have made money in the past.
Perhaps the solution lies more in scaling those products to make money (and possibly outsourcing manufacture to places where labour and space is cheap)?
(Cost of premises is a universal problem... e.g. London Hackspace has just had to move out from central-ish London to the wilds of NW London for similar reasons)

I think if she just did a GoFundMe to move, she'd get a fair amount.
I still think if she makes her budget and requirements public (for the space + living + how far she's willing to move) and get the crowd to work on finding a suitable place she'd find somewhere nice.

As someone who is currently searching for a bigger combined place, just assessing all the option in my current business park is hard work. There are probably dozen of nice options she hasn't even thought about.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: schmitt trigger on October 12, 2018, 01:26:18 pm
I believe that Dave has nailed it.
She has some loyal followers, and if each one donated say $20US, she would obtain a significant amount of money.
I certainly would.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 12, 2018, 01:59:05 pm
If she could get some kind of grant to do education for what she does that might help (may have to be for kids though, as adult education in the US is now commercial.)

Does anybody in Philadelphia get to live in boats? (Are there stable communities of boat-dwellers anywhere?) Owning a small boat (they might be sold by a previous resident who is leaving the area, cheap) is a good way to have a cheap(er)(sometimes), semi-permanent place to live in some areas. In the not too distant past it was like that in the Bay Area, with lots of small marinas, some of which were also communities of boat dwellers.

Don't know the situation now. Back then it was somewhere in cost between living in an RV and renting. (RV's are another possibility but they can also be a trap when they are not in good shape, as can boats)

One friend I had back in the day had spent I think around $30k to buy a small piece of a much larger boat that was shared by a bunch of people and used as a home and office space. It was in Sausalito. At Gate Five. He got a small suite of rooms out of the deal. It was a pretty big boat.  Similar communities exist even on the usually insanely expensive Peninsula. (i.e Silicon Valley) At the edges of the Bay. Worth taking a trip around the edges of your local waterways to explore them on a nice weather (weekend) day and ask residents.. who will often be out enjoying the sun or working on their boats- now you know where to look. Also check out web sites for boaters. See the one below.

That seems like both potentially fun (if one makes the right choices which would seem to me to need help) and has the potential to be suitable for a semi-normal life.

At least with self-owned boats of moderate size, depending on the local environment for boat residents it may or may not have an advantage of being able to move it if your ability to tie it up in one place ends.

In SF, over the years I've had a number of friends who lived on their own, or shared boats. My mom who lived in Sausalito for a while in the 50s, before I was born, had friends who did too, back then. All sorts of artists and writers lived there back then and as far as I know, at least some still do.

Its (sometimes) less expensive than many other kinds of housing/rentals. Plus if you fix your boat up, you get the benefit of that work, not your landlord.

Flat boats, houseboats that are more for inland waterways than the ocean seem to be more appropriate for long term living. Bigger sailboats (with motors for backup) that are seaworthy are popular for living too, and there is a huge 'cruiser' community who travel and live on boats now. (Check out "Cruisers Forum" for info. The very cool boaters charting and navigation program OpenCPN is maintained by a core group of people who hang out there)

Boats aren't always cool.. they only are when they aren't holes people pour their money into - or traps for the unwary, which has always been my biggest fear (and should be Fran's)

This is where having a community of online supporters can really help. She has the best chance of finding a stable housing and work space if she's flexible in what she does next.

If only it wasn't for all that old "boat anchor" equipment it likely would be a lot easier for her. A small number of modern tools could likely replace a whole rack of old test equipment and work so much more flexibly she would never look back as far as most of it.

If in the future she finds a place to expand (not unlikely as many people get more resourceful in creative ways as we get older) she likely could rapidly accumulate a similar wealth of old test equipment quickly because of this housing and work space crunch. If someone has access to a vehicle, they often can get tech stuff for next to nothing, because its often advertised in local papers, craigslist for free, or close to it, if somebody would just come and pick it up.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 12, 2018, 02:22:09 pm
The weather in San Francisco is much more live-aboard friendly than in New England.
People do it (in very limited amounts) up here, but the winter conditions (cold, ice, snow) make for a "more sacrifices required" lifestyle than is true in climates without a deep winter.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 12, 2018, 02:48:02 pm
Good point (about the weather) Philly is quite a bit warmer than New England (in both winter and summer) but not quite Florida either. Not by a long shot.

I live not super far from there and although the weather is getting warmer, we're not even remotely at the point yet where its sub tropical.

Still, despite our cold winters, a few of the hardiest most cold-tolerant palms are beginning to be seen around here, in actual plantings (not pots)

although they all are pretty small, and subject to die back in a real cold snap.
 
Things I have read recently are making me wonder if perhaps the potential for very rapid climate change is increasing. Thats what experts seem to be saying now.

In particular, the situation with methane clathrate - is scary, Methane ice is trapped around the world in Arctic permafrost and along the coastal areas in the Continental shelf.

A look at the phase diagram for methane will show why its hydrate is problematic.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 12, 2018, 11:33:33 pm
I believe that Dave has nailed it.
She has some loyal followers, and if each one donated say $20US, she would obtain a significant amount of money.
I certainly would.
My idea was to make a "no IT knowledge required" cryptocurrency miner to help her. As an American, she should have no problem accepting Bitcoin which really expands what coins would be workable - basically any coin that's profitable to mine. I vote Curecoin/Foldingcoin to get some medical research done at the same time.

I thought about giving her my latest Amazon gift card from exchanging some Swagbucks, but had to abandon the idea since the exchange is not very trustworthy and best practice is to redeem the cards ASAP. (There's exactly one thing I like about Swagbucks and that's the high mining efficiency, even though it's way down compared to what it was last year.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 13, 2018, 12:51:19 am
Patreon video, but I'm sure will be released shortly, shows the task ahead of her in moving, and she has about 7 weeks before the building is knocked down.
She can of course "stay" until her lease is up in July  ::) how generous of them.
They aren't buying out her lease.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKPjZxnOGG4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKPjZxnOGG4)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 13, 2018, 01:16:20 am
I'm not surprised. Their permits probably don't allow them to work until all the leases were due up anyway. Typically permits aren't until done, you need a date so putting an early date in hopes you can start would be risky since it could shift your finish date. Of course in that case they can apply for new permits but why raise the costs for no reason.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: TheSteve on October 13, 2018, 02:39:37 am
Patreon video, but I'm sure will be released shortly, shows the task ahead of her in moving, and she has about 7 weeks before the building is knocked down.
She can of course "stay" until her lease is up in July  ::) how generous of them.
They aren't buying out her lease.

Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 13, 2018, 04:17:00 am
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.

Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 13, 2018, 02:00:22 pm
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.

Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
Exactly. The pressure to leave becomes unsurmountable, which may include recklessness (on purpose or not). I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: modrobert on October 13, 2018, 03:02:07 pm
Fran,

Snap out of that apathy and get busy with the move!

Clean out the stuff rarely used first, move it to temporary storage (or sell it) and go for something smaller than 2000 square feet, half of it will do fine. You will feel better when it's over, less boxed up junk in the lab, less shit to worry about. It's hard to feel sorry about your situation when most us make do with far less space, and less junk.

Use that insomnia for something useful instead of whining. If you need cash via Patreon or similar it's always easier by being specific, set goals where people can help with each part which also makes it less overwhelming. Looking forward to more of your videos about electronics, but no more whining, that sucks.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 13, 2018, 03:16:30 pm
i wanna see someone throw old vacuum tube at bull dozers
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 13, 2018, 06:12:35 pm
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
I agree. However from the video I also get the impression Fran is a bit of a hoarder as well. It seems to me 75% can be thrown away because A) it isn't used and B) it is cheaper to buy when needed instead of paying for storage.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: RoGeorge on October 13, 2018, 06:27:21 pm
Too many home electronics labs looks like hoarder's rooms. It might be a professional disease, or some side effects caused by too much soldering fumes.

Please don't take this as offensive. I am an electronics hoarder myself, too.
Let's look for a moment at the funny side of owning "stuff".  ^-^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 13, 2018, 06:45:50 pm
I think it just comes with the territory. Engineers see the world differently, we know what's inside stuff, when something is broken we often see value in some of the parts contained within and think that some day we might repair the thing or harvest parts from it. I certainly do both of the above, although I also have a lot of stuff I haven't gotten around to doing anything with yet and may never.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: G0HZU on October 13, 2018, 07:06:10 pm
One idea would be to find something amongst all that hoarded stuff/junk that is worth $3500 and sell it. Then use this to rent a nearby 1 bed flat for 6 months. Use the existing building for 'storage' until most of the stuff is sold. Also, this gives time to find an alternative (smaller) premises. If you don't sell or dispose of all the excess in time then I guess you can leave some of the clutter behind to get demolished with the building.

Otherwise it is going to cost a lot of money to move and store that stuff and also fund somewhere to live.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 13, 2018, 07:20:40 pm
If you don't sell or dispose of all the excess in time then I guess you can leave some of the clutter behind to get demolished with the building.
I don't think leaving stuff is a good idea. I bet the lease contract says that the premises must be left clean. Leaving stuff usually means the land lord hires cleaners at your expense and they don't choose the cheapest ones.

I think it just comes with the territory. Engineers see the world differently, we know what's inside stuff, when something is broken we often see value in some of the parts contained within and think that some day we might repair the thing or harvest parts from it. I certainly do both of the above, although I also have a lot of stuff I haven't gotten around to doing anything with yet and may never.
That is the hoarder's prayer. I used to hoard stuff as well and in reality you use maybe 0.01% of it. The space to store it costs more than the components are worth. Things get different if you turn it into a repair business but then you have to be disciplined and throw the really old stuff out. For example: back in the day when I repaired PCs I bought some boxes with PC parts. So when I got to an older computer I'd always have a spare VGA card or IDE interface to fix an old PC cheap. When I stopped fixing PCs I threw most of the stuff out or sold it. Discipline is everything.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 13, 2018, 09:28:28 pm
i cant see accumulation of expensive high tech equipment as hording.

I always saw it as a test equipment library. Can you really fault someone for owning a library? So long you don;t have a pile of shit to the sealing and its ergonomic how is it hording?

If you had a nicely arranged library in your home thats dust free, properly maintained an ergonomic no one would say shit. One of my big regrets was selling a old vacuum powered electrometer. I thought I got a digital one, but shortly after I sold it I realized it's nice to have more then one when working on weird circuits like hybrid amplifiers.

To me it seems hording is almost always proportional to your wealth, because wealth is required for proper storage and organization. If someone kept a private library of easily accessible old news papers to archive their towns history or something, and it was neat, no one would say anything bad about it, other then notice someone has money to spend and they have a fancy of archival of information. At that point its considered a private library.

If the same library of old news papers was found in poor conditions, unorganized and stacked in a way thats condusive to fire hazard, mold etc.. then it would be considered the road to a mental illness... even if all the news papers are theoretically readable...

But to follow best practice in manufacturing, like making test circuits in data sheets and all that stuff to categorize your circuits well, you need ALOT of stuff. Look at the PROPER requirements for something like a spectrum analyzer calibration (as per a HP manual). Its a room full of shit for one thing.

If you deviate that means you trust yourself to do research, compare equipment, etc. this can take alot of time for weird tests. Some people want to do it right and don't want to follow rules of thumb that work most of the time or spend their lives becoming a 'substitution expert'. While valuable for a companies bottom line, its not necessarily pleasant to do something like categorize an unknown comb generator to to some test... or figure out why you might get away without needing one

Same with high end mechanical shop. Imagine having all the go-no go gauges, different calipers, different standards etc.. quickly it looks alot different then shoving a bridge port, few end mills and calipers in your garage and calling it a equipped machine shop

Reading this thread I see alot of 'commercial get her done' talk, not actual deep interest in underlying physics, quality, etc.

I call this 'transfer functionitus', where you start to save money and time by making assumptions or making transfer functions equal to eachother in your head in order to solve electrical problems. There is alot more to engineering/design then just transfer functions. Also the more you get into metrology the harder it is to make substitutes. Everything starts to appear as a specifically engineered solution to a specific problem


TLDR:
"u don't work for NASA LOL NO NEED' (and the ~ is EVERYWHERE in your work)


Same thing for shop tools. I did work with my old family crap before I accumulated my own stuff and got used to working at a certain pace, at a certain stress level and certain expected quality per time/energy investment.

When I got higher quality tools of my own, more optimized to the tasks even with things like simple ergonomics, cordless, etc.. all aspects of the job were improved so long I planned out how to use everything. When I got certain tools I got criticism (whats the difference with the drill we had), then after a year I am the one complaining my tools don't get put back in the right spot. Sometimes it was the smallest most insignificant detail that changed how a problem is solved... to the point where I was scared that I wasted money.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: chris_leyson on October 13, 2018, 09:56:24 pm
Fran, you've accumulated far too much stuff, you got to sell some of it, stuff is nice to have but do you really need it ? Sell the stuff you don't use or the stuff that gets seldom use, it's a difficult decision because there is always that "I can use it for this or that" excuse so I will keep it. What is important is the stuff you carry around in your head, the ideas, the projects, the knowlege you can pass on to others, that's something you carry around all day 24/7 and it takes up optimum storage space. It's what is in your head, your persona, that's what defines you woman and not the shiney toys, so just ditch the shiney toys because they are luggage you don't need.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 13, 2018, 10:05:26 pm
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: chris_leyson on October 13, 2018, 10:59:42 pm
Quote
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning
I wasn't calling the equipment toys but more like the attitude of the collectors, look at me I've got a whole shelf full of toys I seldom use.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 14, 2018, 12:39:08 am
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Even the highest quality equipment becomes old junk at some point. It is not easy to see because you get older as well. I have fallen into that trap myself by buying equipment which was way too old. Nowadays you can often buy better performing equipment which is much smaller and/or cheaper. It is better to have less space to fill because it forces you to think about what you really need in order to be effective. Having one oscilloscope which can do 3 things well is better and easier than 3 old boat anchors each with their quirks and short comings. Sometimes less really is better.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 14, 2018, 12:54:33 am
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Even the highest quality equipment becomes old junk at some point. It is not easy to see because you get older as well. I have fallen into that trap myself by buying equipment which was way too old. Nowadays you can often buy better performing equipment which is much smaller and/or cheaper.
The problem is that in many cases, the modern replacement just doesn't have the charm of the original. It's not very difficult to build a digital audio player that will outperform any record player, but it just isn't the same overall experience.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 14, 2018, 01:48:13 am
I sort of feel like the osciloscope is a edge case in terms of test equipment. Its something thats really useful to everyone so I feel like its been hyper focused on for development.

But in terms of practical use, its difficult to compare a quality tektronix analog oscilloscope to something like a rigol 1052e. I find low end oscilloscopes downright annoying to use, plus you need to consider all the very advanced plugins that were made for certain scopes. With low end stuff you can get hit by firmware bugs.

I actually think that just now you can start to get really good quality digital scopes.. I think I also prefer the trigger system on older scopes.

There is also the repair factor, which can be a big thing, and the up time factor, if your scope breaks and its real expensive you can be in a world of hurt (say a 8000$ scope vs some 100$ old ebay deal).

But some other stuff, like power supplies, there is little reason for the modern ones. Something like a old lambda precision series PSU is a great value, and other then the fact that the display is limited, its very stable, very low noise and very cheap. I would actually consider it a questionable business decision to buy things like a 800$ wheras you can get like 3-5 high quality power supplies (between 1-3 channels each) on ebay for the same price, or even more, to have redundancy and ruggedness, high quality parts being used, established documentation.

I think that tools useful for digital circuit work have reduced in cost vastly, but still, I would never use a freaking bus pirate over something like a 1660 logic analyzer system, and there are even merits to using things like serial mainframes/mini computer things for some work so you have known good hardware that will work. Easy to access setup, quality cables, good UI, your never gonna be writing fucking useless code to test blink LED's if you have a setup like that.

This is a bit of a stretch, but take something like a PLUTOSDR that I bought. Extremely cheap, extremely good capabilities for the cost in terms of digital/communications work.. but I have had to struggle to use it, pretty much I need to run a separate with a version of linux I don't like to make the thing work, without too much work, otherwise I will be on linux forums all day.

All the minaturization and modern design trends are not all peachy IMO.

I for instance have some Sorensen power supplies for high current use, which are remarkably small and light for their power output but they are a complete bitch to fix, built super compact.. I actually would prefer to dedicate a space to a big old hunking linear supply to work with for the same power levels.. and they are pretty noisy (in both senses) too. I don't wanna deal with that shit when I am making a prototype really. I see it as something to use post development on a test bench after some high power subassembly is already tested in categorized, to approximate what can happen in a realistic power use scenario (where you might use something like a meanwell switcher of the right kind to power it). You end up dealing with more variables that can mask intrinsic problems.

I have a large 3A/8V power supply from HP. Made in 1960. All I ever needed to do with it was replace capacitor.. I see no reason why its junk or why I should replace it with anything else. I can take it off the shelf, put it anywhere I want and do something like a circuit burn in, remote module test, all sorts of things, with no effort to build a power supply, relocate primary lab units, etc. Boat anchor digital stuff often has weird input ranges that make it robust too. You can conveniently probe some weird signal level along with all the other ones without making adapters etc. If its some gigantic digital stream your gonna need  to go with the poorly engineered cheap modern solution, but for nuts and bolt shit, keep it in a drawer. So much less frustrating.

But to be fair, I do have a fair bit of damaged/broke gear that is partially usable. But a economic and space analysis shows me that it siting on a cheap wire rack in the basement, with its cost, still is worth while compared to buying pricier equipment.. just the psychological factor is hard to get over sometimes. It mostly stays broke because there are fucking annoying ass design features which make it hard to fix (there is a HP function generator made of 4 PCB's all connected to each other in a cube made out of card edge connectors). Complete bitch to probe compared to some things. But I consider it a outlier compared to some other stuff. But I have also been getting side tracked alot and not planning it well. If I had to do it for a job, rather then enjoyment, it would all be fixed promptly with minor investment... I could strip and solder in the 40 or whatever bodge wires pretty quickly so it can be laid out on a bench and fixed, but I just dont wanna do that in my free time... if I got paid to do it though it would be done in a jiffy

with it being a hobby its just so easy to find other more entertaining things you can do once you reach a critical mass of crap...


***I do pitty the fool that does not have a digital oscilloscope
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 14, 2018, 03:00:31 am
Too many home electronics labs looks like hoarder's rooms. It might be a professional disease, or some side effects caused by too much soldering fumes.
Please don't take this as offensive. I am an electronics hoarder myself, too.

I won't show a photo of the current state of my 44sqm storage bunker...
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 14, 2018, 04:08:08 am
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 14, 2018, 04:05:30 pm
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 14, 2018, 04:21:48 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQsGiiPVFo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQsGiiPVFo)

for some reason this song comes to mind with some of the responses in this thread, in regards to being condescending lol
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: firewalker on October 14, 2018, 06:21:14 pm
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location?  As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?

I tend to believe that the problem is mainly psychological and not practical reasons. Tired of moving, bored of the process etc.

Alexander.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: RoGeorge on October 14, 2018, 06:49:37 pm
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?

My guess is 1k patreons, after all fees and taxes, means way, way less than $1500.
https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 14, 2018, 07:51:38 pm
When are you  guys going to realize that relying on donations is not a sustainable business model. If what Fran is doing is not making her living she should think about doing something different. Like it or not.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 14, 2018, 07:55:51 pm
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?

I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ? 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 14, 2018, 08:21:56 pm
I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?

I do live in my own place, and have done so for many years. But not everybody does, because not everybody has a sufficient (and sufficiently steady) income to afford property and convince the bank to bridge the gap. Or people live in rented property by choice, because they actually want to stay flexible and mobile: In Germany, only 45% of the population own the place they live in. The cost of selling and buying a new place adds up to around 10% of the property value; so you are far less mobile once you own property.

But whether someone lives in rented space by choice or by necessity -- I would not demand that they reduce their lives to the contents of a couple of suitcases. Or tell them "that will teach you" when things go wrong and they have to (painfully) figure out new solution for their life.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 14, 2018, 08:47:06 pm
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?

My guess is 1k patreons, after all fees and taxes, means way, way less than $1500.
https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon
I calculated that if supporters were to use some old smartphones/tablets to mine Swagbucks (at current profitability - i.e. including the recent halving) and send her all the profit, it would only take a little more than 100 supporters (each running one old smartphone/tablet) to basically double her donation income.

Now I wonder how to make use of that to actually help her. If I release the code used to make my miner run so well, would supporters be encouraged to set up their own mining rigs and pass a significant amount of the profit onto her or would all I end up accomplishing is destroy the only thing I like about Swagbucks - the high mining profitability?

There are other coins to mine, of course. Given it's entering winter in the northern hemisphere, maybe some less efficient coins are also worth considering?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 14, 2018, 08:59:09 pm
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?
I don't think owning or renting a place is the issue. Even if you own a place you can be evicted for various reasons (toxic ground, unstable ground, building a road, etc, etc). The trick is to buy or rent something which is not going to be subject to those kind of problems.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: chris_leyson on October 14, 2018, 09:06:21 pm
I don't drive so for me it's public transport. Last year I was made redundant, owed two months salary and was living away from home in a single rented room, quite a large room. No money for rent so I sold the two TEK7000 scopes and all of the plugins. Had enough to pay the rent and I managed to bundle all of the other miscellaneous crap into a taxi to get me the 150 miles back home.
It was an easy decision to sell the TEK gear, I needed the money and didn't have room for it back home. Loads of stuff just went into the local "electrical waste" recycling bin, some of which I regret, but you got to make tough choices. It took me about a week to sort everything out and finally move, dump the stuff you don't need and pack to stuff you might need. Managed to get it all into three 42L plastic storage containers and one of them was for books ! In the six years living and working away from home I had managed to collect a reasonable sized pile of stuff and out of 5 scopes I sold two, dumped two and kept a working one. Maybe I should have kept the 2465 and 2235 both with only one working channel but they came with the 54610B at auction. That was my biggest regret.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 14, 2018, 09:25:35 pm
I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 14, 2018, 09:31:21 pm
I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 14, 2018, 10:12:16 pm
Good luck Fran.

Sure if she owned the place there would be no question. Sure if she was making a lot more money it would be easier. Not everyone does either though.

A lot of creative people tend to accumulate tools and parts and think more about their passion and making stuff than about potential long-term issues.
That's just how it is. As long as it's not hurting anyone...

Since we don't know squat about her life outside of this (at least I don't), there's not much we can say. Just hope she'll be able to relocate without having to give up too much.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 14, 2018, 11:10:37 pm
I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.

Sure, and that can vary case to case. However most people I've known end up collecting stuff they don't need over time(For working or hobbies). I was an automotive technician who moved into electronics design. I have 2 10' wide, 3' deep, 8' tall shelves in the garage, a large and a small toolbox, 4 large inside shelving units, and 2 decent size workbenches(one for each discipline). I have way more stuff I could get rid of than I need. Probably close to 4:1, in volume it'd be even greater. I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of anything not damn near worth its weight in gold and if it makes you money it probably is. Some stuff will absolutely make sense to keep, way more isn't worth the hassle if I had issues. I stopped using storage units years ago because I decided if I was storing it, it was likely losing me money. I'd be better off selling it or getting rid of it rather than letting it get old(er) in storage and paying for the privilege.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: chris_leyson on October 14, 2018, 11:25:04 pm
Quote
I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe.
Quote
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
That's two different perspectives on "gear" business or hobby. How much gear do you really need and Fran has collected one hell of a lot gear. So if there is anyone in Philly please drop by Frans lab and give her a hand to help sort shit out or a least organise and help pack it, the clock is counting.
How many guitar effects pedals did FranTone Labs sell ? I don't know I don't play guitar.
That's the problem with creative people, we are like moths we flit from one "light bulb" to another, and collect all of the gear we need for the next "light bulb".
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 15, 2018, 12:05:56 am
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Reminds me of an old Mad TV skit where Oprah is explaining how she deals with post-9/11 economic uncertainty: “Three words: Buy. A. Mountain!”

https://youtu.be/pzsErLOip-Y


Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
It is a bit condescending. And yet, if you’re used to what it’s like renting in Europe, it may come as a shock that it’s also totally true. In most places in USA you can be kicked out with little to no notice. The US’s history as a place where homeownership is expected (outside of a few major cities), means that renting has always had a clear “second rate citizen” status. It’s something you do because you’re young and haven’t figured things out yet, goes the story. That it’s untrue, and that we need to create more equitable relations between landlords and tenants, gets forgotten in the “homeownership is the goal” chatter.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2018, 09:03:33 am
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?

Engineers tend to lack tact.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2018, 09:07:56 am
Quote
I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe.
Quote
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
That's two different perspectives on "gear" business or hobby. How much gear do you really need and Fran has collected one hell of a lot gear.

Fran has lots of interests, that tends to accumulate more stuff as a result.
Her Twitter username is ContourCorsets, she's had a sewing business for a long time as well.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: @rt on October 15, 2018, 09:14:25 am
The life of a renter. Not an exclusive club.
I’m not even sure why this is a thread. There’s a period I moved more often than Fran mentioned.
I just sold up a large and rare collection of retro computing in anticipation of it.
It’s heartbreaking, but I don’t expect the details to interest anyone else.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2018, 09:38:27 am
The life of a renter. Not an exclusive club.
I’m not even sure why this is a thread.

Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.

I'm looking at a big move right now. I currently own the lab and rent the 2nd office. This was always a stop-gap because the 50sqm lab was too small and buying a larger space wasn't really an option. My required 100sqm would cost >$800k. And it's next to impossible to get credit for commercial property.
So the options are:
1) Stay with what I've got.
2) Consolidate the lab and office into one bigger rented space, and then rent out my lab space.

I have found I space I like, the rent is reasonable, but they are being aggressive on terms. I'm not sure what to do.

Why bring it up? Because it impacts my audience too, I'd have to move the entire lab and set it up practically from scratch again.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NivagSwerdna on October 15, 2018, 10:07:54 am
Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
Viewership is typically far less than 10k views per video. Looks like some significant downsizing is required with funds being raised by selling some of that stuff.  The move itself looks like a major endeavor.
Over the past few months I have been looking at my own stuff, in the context of making a will, and thinking how awful it would be to sort this out after I am gone.  I'm planning on selling or throwing my hoard but it is hard work parting with things that might have a use in the future  ;)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Alex Eisenhut on October 15, 2018, 10:11:24 am
The hoarders back in 1588 had a solution

http://www.openculture.com/2017/09/behold-the-book-wheel-the-renaissance-invention-created-to-make-books-portable-help-scholars-study-1588.html (http://www.openculture.com/2017/09/behold-the-book-wheel-the-renaissance-invention-created-to-make-books-portable-help-scholars-study-1588.html)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: @rt on October 15, 2018, 10:12:12 am
That might be true, but it’s not the crux of the OP, nor what it occurs to me the video is about.
I relate to it sure, but sympathy, not from me.

In your case, I’d guess the move would be quite the undertaking, but in Fran’s case... I’m quite sure my stuff is much heavier, at least as much drama, and at least as often.

I’m glad I don’t work on vehicles.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2018, 10:31:04 am
Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
Viewership is typically far less than 10k views per video.

What does that imply?, that's it's not worth discussing here?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2018, 10:32:47 am
Looks like some significant downsizing is required with funds being raised by selling some of that stuff.

I don't think that needs to be the case, and I've outlined a plan to help with that.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 15, 2018, 11:27:24 am
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?

i noticed in USA i heard stuff like 'sell it' quite a bit. It was always a fucked up last measure in my head. It's much less stressful to borrow money then to sell property.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 11:54:45 am
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?

My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

That can make it very uneconomic, to regularly buy and sell (move) property. Because a significant chunk of the money (in percentage terms), goes straight to the government. So, if you borrowed most of the money, anyway. The loss is especially hard hitting.

Hypothetical countries example:
Loan $250,000 to buy property.
24 months later, sell for $250,000
You now owe the government $25,000 (or some percentage)
You still owe the loan people $250,000
So you have to somehow magic up $25,000 plus all the loan interest rates and other bills.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 15, 2018, 12:12:41 pm
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?

i noticed in USA i heard stuff like 'sell it' quite a bit. It was always a fucked up last measure in my head. It's much less stressful to borrow money then to sell property.
If you have a short-term, temporary cash crunch and otherwise strong prospects for mid and long-term income, borrowing is better than selling useful assets.
If you have a long-term, structural deficiency on your income statement, borrowing money is only going to delay and worsen the inevitable day of reckoning and selling assets might be a better course of action.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2018, 01:10:11 pm
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 01:11:35 pm
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.

Same in the UK (capital gains tax), but I know little about Australia, so that is interesting to know, thanks!

Despite being the other side, of a big planet. It is amazing (at least to me), how much similarity there is between the UK and Australia. Driving on the left, language, etc etc.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 15, 2018, 01:16:02 pm
Despite being the other side, of a big planet. It is amazing (at least to me), how much similarity there is between the UK and Australia. Driving on the left, language, etc etc.

Strange... I wonder how that came about...  ::) ;)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 01:39:15 pm
Strange... I wonder how that came about...  ::) ;)

If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.

Ignoring obvious language differences.
I somewhat consider Germany, more similar (especially culturally) to the UK, than America.
Despite the history, of how the UK/Britain's involvement with the creation of America/Australia etc.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: glarsson on October 15, 2018, 01:45:00 pm
If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.
Some English subjects didn't want to stay in England and sailed to the new America, changing some bits just to make a statement.
Some English subjects wanted to stay but was forced to sail to Australia.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 01:46:04 pm
Back on topic.

Because Fran is just one person, there seems to be a huge amount of stuff and not much time to deal with the situation.
I think that things are not going to go, too well.

But maybe Fran's apparent intention, to put a huge number of things, into more storage, may ease up the situation enough, to give her time to settle things better in the longer term.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 15, 2018, 02:00:22 pm
Strange... I wonder how that came about...  ::) ;)

If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.

Ignoring obvious language differences.
I somewhat consider Germany, more similar (especially culturally) to the UK, than America.
Despite the history, of how the UK/Britain's involvement with the creation of America/Australia etc.
It's almost as though the radically different histories of USA and Australia could have had an impact on the end result!

As for USA vs Germany… (FYI, I'm an American who's lived in Europe for about 17 years.) Well, for one thing, "German" is the #1 self-identified background in USA, even above English, Irish, Italian, etc. And let me tell you, northern Germany is clearly where many American traditions came from. But ultimately, USA is a melting pot of countless influences.


As for differences in English by country: USA tends to have retained the historical (original) forms of many words which then changed in British English (and from there went on to be exported to the younger colonies). For example, the widely known difference in "can/can't" (where American English pronounces the vowels the same, while British English pronounces them differently) is not the result of American laziness (as is usually claimed), but because that was the original form, the form used when the American colonies were established.

Add to this new words added to both vocabularies, changes that happened on one side or the other, and the influx in USA of other native English speakers (namely, Irish and Scottish, and the occasional Welsh), and it's no surprise the accents are different. But at the same time, it's important IMHO not to dwell on the 0.1% that's different, and instead to remember the 99.9% that's the same. :)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: In Vacuo Veritas on October 15, 2018, 02:55:19 pm
What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: IanMacdonald on October 15, 2018, 04:32:34 pm
Well, in the UK we have a kind of financial bubble in which houses fetch crazy prices, far more than they are worth. In fact it isn't so much the house that's worth that amount, but the land. You can pay almost as much for a plot with planning permission as land with a completed house. Whilst a plot which can't get permission to build is worth little. At the same time, interest rates on savings are next to nil. The lack of returns on other ways to invest money pushes investors to buy-up land or housing as an investment, and that exacerbates the housing price problem.

Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.

I've often thought of moving to other European countries where I could have a far better house and workshop, and some cash to spare, for the price of this place. That, and the taxes would be lower.  Of course the incomes are lower too, that's the only thing.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 05:32:17 pm
{I've intentionally NOT replied to the secondary "English/UK" discussion, I accidentally seemed to have started. In an attempt to NOT derail the thread. Which could be important, for Fran. Sorry, if it affects you}

If Fran is truly, fed up with moving and all the hassle of dealing with huge amounts of equipment. Being moved from place to place and re-installed/sorted-out in the "new" premises.

Then, significant reduction in the amount of stuff she has, is probably required.
Just putting it all into extra storage, is only really a very short term fix.

I feel sorry for her. Because the more I think about it. The more of a problem, I can see with her current situation.

It is annoying that they are (in real terms), NOT giving Fran plenty of notice/time to sort things out.
They should be compensating her, for the shortened lease/contract time, as well.

I guess life can be hard, at times.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 15, 2018, 07:26:48 pm
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.

surely that would depend on there being a gain
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 15, 2018, 08:17:51 pm
Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. Almost always in the cases I've seen, the storage bill far outweighs the value if the items.

IMHO the only time a storage unit makes sense is when there is a short term need with a finite timespan and a well thought out plan for dealing with it. We used one once to deal with an influx of stuff from a deceased relative so their house could be sold but we decided ahead of time it would be for no more than 3 months and then set right to work going through things deciding what to keep, what to sell and what to give away. I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 08:22:54 pm
Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. Almost always in the cases I've seen, the storage bill far outweighs the value if the items.

IMHO the only time a storage unit makes sense is when there is a short term need with a finite timespan and a well thought out plan for dealing with it. We used one once to deal with an influx of stuff from a deceased relative so their house could be sold but we decided ahead of time it would be for no more than 3 months and then set right to work going through things deciding what to keep, what to sell and what to give away. I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

That is similar to what I fear is going to happen.
I get the impression from the unpublished-video in this thread, that Fran, is (sadly) in denial of this situation.
They really need to NOT have a lot of the stuff. There are all sorts of ways of getting it to a good home or disposing of stuff.

I'm too far away to help (directly), and would probably not be the right sort of person, to be able to help, either.

But they just seem to have far too much stuff, and don't seem to properly realize it.

Without a massive home or workshop, they are going to get into big difficulties.

I think the real problem here, is they have way too much stuff. If they had a normal amount of stuff, like most people. This would be an easy problem to sort out.
Find a new rented or bought place and spend a day moving the stuff into it. Problem sorted.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 15, 2018, 08:29:29 pm
I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;) 

Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 15, 2018, 08:34:56 pm
Quote
I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
In Chicago, they used to just hire crackheads to break into your place to "burglarize" it every 3 weeks until you leave.

If I had nothing better to do, 9 months left on my lease, and no buyout offer, I might consider buying every type of insurance to cover any theft or incidental damage and maybe come out on top, lol. If your lease is costing the owner hundreds of thousands of dollars, they could at least make a decent offer for a buyout. 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 15, 2018, 08:35:49 pm
I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;) 

Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...

But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
Which accumulates over the years, to become a somewhat big total, of fairly wasted money.
Which would be better spent, towards buying somewhere permanent to live or other things.

I.e. Maybe it would be better, to treat the situation, like a failed/bankrupt business.
Have a big "fire" sale, and get rid of most of the stuff.
I guess it's easier said than done, in practice.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: PointyOintment on October 15, 2018, 08:50:09 pm
Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. […] Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

Indeed. I wouldn't recommend anyone get a storage unit for long-term occupancy unless they have a really good, usable inventory system to keep track of what's in there and also exactly where in the storage unit each item is. Preferably they would also reasonably expect to put in and take out items on a regular basis, such that they keep the storage unit and contents in mind.

Regarding Fran & Dave downsizing: Why not sell stuff to subscribers and other fans? That would keep the equipment in good hands, and raise a bit of money for moving. Possibly add a condition that the buyer give yearly updates on what they've done with it, even if the update is nothing more than "it's still here" or "I sold it on", to ease everyone's minds about nixie gear getting scrapped and the like.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 15, 2018, 09:14:49 pm
Before you sell you need to inventory the stuff, then you need to ship the items, let alone create listings for sale. This is huge work. 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Macbeth on October 15, 2018, 09:49:11 pm
Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.

This isn't true - the problem with UK vs other EU countries like Germany are 6 month short hold tenancies. You WILL be kicked out every 6 months by default if your landlord decides there are better paying tenants or just doesn't like you on a whim, or that the latest batch of "refugees" are far more profitable as they are paid and guaranteed by the state.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 15, 2018, 09:53:30 pm
What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Google “glottal stop”. It’s a common sound in many languages.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: thm_w on October 15, 2018, 10:22:28 pm
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location?  As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?

I tend to believe that the problem is mainly psychological and not practical reasons. Tired of moving, bored of the process etc.

She is hiding her donation dollar total, which many people do, but it could be anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per month ($951 x $1-3).

For comparison: Dave $2.73 donation per person, Julian I. $1.56, Micah $4.33. Its nice that some post the info publicly to compare.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 15, 2018, 10:45:12 pm
Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.

This isn't true - the problem with UK vs other EU countries like Germany are 6 month short hold tenancies. You WILL be kicked out every 6 months by default if your landlord decides there are better paying tenants or just doesn't like you on a whim, or that the latest batch of "refugees" are far more profitable as they are paid and guaranteed by the state.

here that is because if the contract is not time limited, the landlord lets the renter stay beyond the limits and bunch of other traps it basically
becomes interminable

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 15, 2018, 11:16:36 pm
Quote
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location?  As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?

I know plenty of people that live paycheck to paycheck and are constantly "broke" and need to borrow money for any trouble in their life. Sure, they have a retirement account worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. But they are "broke," and that's the story they stick with.

this is the new modern day thing. Socking away most of your savings into a 401K, have a nice retirement account, and still live the bohemian life.

But if she's making 1000 a month from Youtube and she's actually broke, then she probably makes a large percentage of her income from Youtube, compared to w/e she's doing with the other 1500 square feet of metro real estate/workshop/production (making guitar pedals/effects or w/e she does). Maybe she ought to take a trip to the dumpster and downsize a little, if she wants to stay in the city. Focus on what brings in the net profit per square foot of lease.
 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 15, 2018, 11:50:44 pm
the bohemian life is pretty shit.

people get stuck doing that stuff. leaving the lights on turns into some kind of capital offense. don't you notice your sanity slowly leaving you around those kinds of people?

went to college, designed high tech equipment for rich people, pp&j on toast for lunch?  :scared:
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 16, 2018, 12:41:59 am
Only an idiot would dip into their 401k to pay for day to day expenses. Most people greatly underestimate the amount of money they need to retire and do not save nearly enough, not the other way around. This is one reason that retirement is a pipe dream for many.

Taking in $1k/month would be poverty in this area. You'd be lucky to scrape by renting a room in someone's house and relying on public transit.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: firewalker on October 16, 2018, 05:51:06 am
What is the city she lives?

Alexander.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 16, 2018, 06:11:29 am
What is the city she lives?

Alexander.

It is perfectly acceptable to actually read the thread (or at least, say, the original post) before asking questions.  :P
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cerebus on October 16, 2018, 10:02:59 am
What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Google “glottal stop”. It’s a common sound in many languages.

Or ask any native of the East End of London to pronounce "glottal stop" for you — a dialect in which that phrase is self-defining, alright Guv?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: station240 on October 16, 2018, 10:11:41 am
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?

She is hiding her donation dollar total, which many people do, but it could be anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per month ($951 x $1-3).

Fran for whatever reason has a few trolls that post in every single one of her videos.
Comments like "stop begging for money" "what is this [swear word]" etc.
It's about the time this started, that she hid the total donation amount.

My understanding is the donations cover the youtube channel and related projects, without that money the channel would be abandoned mostly a the time spent making things to sell instead.
However given the recent landlord decision to screw Fran out of a year's lease, she needs the money.

To the fools telling Fran to just bin most of her stuff, and move into a caravan or something. You owe Fran an apology.
You have no idea what Fran owns, what she uses it for, or what it's worth.
If someone binned your most useful but ugly looking tool/machine as it was taking up space, you would be livid.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 11:34:07 am
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 11:40:39 am
Regarding Fran & Dave downsizing

I'm not downsizing, in fact I'm upsizing, I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
And I'll be saving money by upsizing actually.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NivagSwerdna on October 16, 2018, 11:54:06 am
I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
I hope it was selected purely on the basis of the other tenants.... i.e. the dumpster room potential  :)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cerebus on October 16, 2018, 12:49:00 pm
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price

So about £16 per square foot per annum - which is the standard way of thinking about commercial rents in the UK. To put that into perspective, the current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 01:10:15 pm
I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
I hope it was selected purely on the basis of the other tenants.... i.e. the dumpster room potential  :)

Same dumpster room!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 01:15:03 pm
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

 :o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on October 16, 2018, 01:23:50 pm
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

(https://www.history.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_768/MTU3ODc5MDg0MDE5MzYxNTAz/vladimir-lenin-portrait.jpg)

Does anyone actually have alot of respect for their land lord? :-DD
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 16, 2018, 01:24:59 pm
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

 :o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.

The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.

Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 01:50:44 pm
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

Maybe that owner actually worked running a factory or doing R&D to afford to buy the land in the first place?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cerebus on October 16, 2018, 01:51:11 pm
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

 :o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.

The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.

Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?

That would usually include some joint facilities management fees (which are almost inescapable in UK rented commercial properties) but excludes everything else. UK commercial property has always been expensive and recent (10-20 yrs) general shifts in the property market have made it even more so. You can get better rates in the north of England, but most technology companies are in the South/South East where rents are the highest. At the very bottom end it can be a little cheaper, renting a single (grotty) office with a desk over a local shop would set me back £300 per month.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 16, 2018, 01:55:55 pm
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

Does anyone actually have alot of respect for their land lord? :-DD
At somewhere along the way, rather than using money to consume, someone used money to invest in land, buildings, or other rentable improvements. That they are now reaping the benefit of that foregone consumption is no more offensive to me than someone enjoying the shade of a tree they planted 20 years earlier.

I respected all three of my individual landlords. One was a divorced woman renting a third of her house where she'd done some remodeling to block off a hallway, add a kitchen and bath, and make what would be an illegal apartment in most cities (but out in the unincorporated area, it was likely legally unfettered). She was giving up a third of her house to me to make ends meet. The second was a mid-60s (estimated) handyman who converted his basement of a split-level into a similar setup and renting to me to make ends meet. The third was a real-estate agent who bought a triplex, lived in the bottom unit, rented the top two out to make the mortgage, then moved out and bought another triplex to continue to the same process and I moved into his old owner's unit. He was doing better financially than the previous two, but there was an obvious linkage between his sacrifice (of time and money) and the little real estate empire he was beginning to build for himself.

So, yes, I have a lot of respect for all three of them. The commercial landlord I rented from I have no information or knowledge of, but given that their investment allowed me to live in a place that I enjoyed and couldn't afford to buy and that they lived up to every aspect of their end of the lease, I also respect them.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 02:01:43 pm
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
:o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.

The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.

Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?

Yes, my price does not include "outgoings" as they are called here.
The smaller the office gets the more expensive per sqm. For example, my current office is about $500 sqm for the 33sqm, $400sqm for a larger one, again, not including outgoings. But it's probably the best and most prestigious building in the park and has a front desk concierge. Really schmick, I hate to leave it actually.

In the park across the road you can get large office spaces for under $200 sqm, like this random one:
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-nsw-castle+hill-502666534 (https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-nsw-castle+hill-502666534)
The combined warehouse/office thing is cheaper again at about $180sqm
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-industrial+warehouse-nsw-castle+hill-502898898 (https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-industrial+warehouse-nsw-castle+hill-502898898)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 02:04:25 pm
My old lab will be available for rent shortly, anyone want me as landlord?  ;D

Actually, most commercial (and residential) places are run by management agencies, so you never really know who your landlord actually is.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: RickBrant on October 16, 2018, 06:11:45 pm
Fran should maybe investigate rural-ish western PA - the rural areas around Pittsburgh, in Washington County, etc.

I don't know the situation around Philadelphia but rural western PA is extremely depressed and yet not that far from "civilization".

I'd donate to a GoFundMe.

(This thread is increasing my resolve to hold a garage sale.)

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 16, 2018, 07:50:00 pm
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price

It is a fairly expensive thing, at those prices.
For you, with a thriving YouTube and other stuff, business. You can justify (business case) and afford it.

Similarly, if the area in the US's, storage rental rates can drop enough, in a unpopular, not so convenient location. Which I hope is possible, but I'm not familiar enough with the US, to be sure.

Maybe Fran's YouTube and business activities, can afford the storage.
If they CAN'T afford them, then solutions, such as downsizing, need to be considered.
But maybe Fran could raise prices (on the other activities) and attempt to make more money via the YouTube things.

In fairness to Fran and others, stuff in life costs money. If Fran has effectively created a tiny/modest TV channel like thing (YouTube), then there is a need for some revenues to come in and pay for things, like rent etc.

I've seen and enjoyed some of Fran's videos, in the past. Such as weird, somewhat long forgotten, display devices. Which they very determinedly, researched and got it working, for the video. It was very nice to watch.

Actually, I've just had a look, to refresh my memory.
I've really enjoyed, lots of Fran's videos, on various rare things. Such as rare electronics kits, rare LED's, space related electronics etc.

I'm now beginning to feel guilty. I'm not particularly good, at brand recognition. I tend to just watch interesting videos, without necessarily remembering the channel it was. I'd forgotten how many of Fran's videos I'd watched and enjoyed.

Unfortunately, I'm the sort of person, who watches electronics related videos, but who doesn't send any money. (I don't want to admit my adblock status, but you can probably guess ).

In the case of Daves EEVblog, he does sometimes sell things, which I am at least tempted to buy, at times. Such as multimeters, and microcurrent devices. So, sooner or later, I could end up contributing, indirectly, financially.

This post has got, too big, sorry.
Modern life seems to have created this YouTube channels thing, whereby MOST viewers, can just not directly pay any money for it (i.e. it is "free"). Rightly or wrongly, that is the way of the world (of youtube), at the moment. But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.

i.e. A sort of Netflix for YouTube. So if you watch lots of electronics related videos, they get a significant chunk of your subscription to youtube. Hence can carry on, doing their stuff.
But I'm a tiny/minute cog, in a massive machine, full of giant cogs, so can't initiate changes like this, myself. Unless I turn into Bill Gates, or similar, and do it myself.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 16, 2018, 08:34:09 pm

And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;) 

Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...

That sounds like a good way to waste a lot of really valuable stuff potentially. No sense in throwing the baby out with the bath water, at least take some time to go through it, I regularly find treasures I forgot I had or didn't know what I had done with when I clean out a closet or the garage.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 16, 2018, 08:38:44 pm
Before you sell you need to inventory the stuff, then you need to ship the items, let alone create listings for sale. This is huge work.

What I've done a few times and helped others do is do is first do a quick sort between keep and dispose of, then do another quick sort through the dispose of pile, cherry picking all the stuff that I'm fairly sure will fetch enough to be worth the trouble of selling, then I get a bunch of flat rate boxes from the post office and start listing a few items each evening on ebay, packing them up in a shipping box as I finish listing them. Then I start going through the less valuable stuff and make some collections of similar stuff and list these for sale as small lots, then if I have time I list some of the lower value stuff or just give it away. Anything not worth selling that I can't give away, that's when I consider tossing it out. The key is to make sure you deal with a few items every day, until it's all gone.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 10:48:04 pm
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price

It is a fairly expensive thing, at those prices.
For you, with a thriving YouTube and other stuff, business. You can justify (business case) and afford it.

I actually own my own 44sqm storage unit and rent it to myself  ;D (yes, it's legal)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 16, 2018, 10:50:47 pm
But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.


They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MK14 on October 16, 2018, 11:40:20 pm
I actually own my own 44sqm storage unit and rent it to myself  ;D (yes, it's legal)

That makes perfect sense. The UK is similar, where similar things are done, to (usually fully legally), allow you to pay the tax you need to, but not more. But some extreme tax saving schemes are both morally wrong (arguably), and potentially illegal these days. Which for example, some massive plc companies do.

They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.

I will seriously consider that, for the coming future.
Google messed up partly, because some time ago, I was seriously considering getting it. But then found out, that at that time, it was NOT available in the UK  :(
Now that it is available, I can look into it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 17, 2018, 01:54:10 am
But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.


They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
Alas, only available in a few handfuls of countries. :(
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: SilverSolder on October 17, 2018, 02:27:30 am
Youtube is down hard at the moment - can't be good for anyone's video based business!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 17, 2018, 03:14:22 am
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

Maybe that owner actually worked running a factory or doing R&D to afford to buy the land in the first place?

Good point. ;D

Thing is, in some countries, real productive work is actually taxed more than rental income. That's probably this part that is highly debatable, not the fact you can make money off owning a property - and the fact that some owner actually worked hard (and got taxed accordingly at the time) to own a property (which is not always the case but obviously happens) doesn't really change the idea that this tax policy is biased.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 17, 2018, 03:21:51 am
Lots of people who put stuff in storage lose their possessions to the bills, which mount up. It ends up being auctioned off to whomever shows up with cash.

And its just heartbreaking to see people pleading to get some prized item, family photo or important document out of the auction items. Lots of the time, of course, they dont even know its going to be sold, not having an address to receive the notification at. Evictions and homelessness in the US are at all time highs.

Best to just sell the bulky stuff and not put things in storage unless they are really irreplaceable. The cost is too high for storing anything like old electronics unless it really is valuable. Not just interesting.

Personally, I think its a bubble that is bound to break. There is less and less real wealth creation, much of what we see is just churning, money-mad landlords displacing good tenants like Fran in order to get some pie in the sky deal that may never pan out.

Last I looked my old apartment in SF was still on the market for one and a half million dollars. Or had it been sold and then resold. It doesnt matter. It was a nice top floor flat. I lived there a long time, and it made me really ill. A super toxic challenge for anybidy because the mold was just inside everythunbg inside the walls and they never cleaned it out. Just painted it over. beware, the inside of the building's walls were is a mold trap.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 17, 2018, 03:25:38 am
Now I own and my walls are my own. Thank god.

Looking to finish a survey of my house I am doing for Photogrammetry

Dense point cloud....
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Siwastaja on October 17, 2018, 04:38:46 pm
Thing is, in some countries, real productive work is actually taxed more than rental income.

Such as Finland, with work-based income taxed quickly at 70%, while capital income is at 34% max. (Both progressive as of now, but the latter is almost linear.)

The progressivity which quickly gets over 50% causes interesting things, and the whole system works around no one actually getting a big payroll, but through other legal, "gray" or even illegal ways, so after this, we basically have a non-progressive tax system. For example, we have a system in which the employer can pay tax free money for the employee driving their own car quite arbitrarily, by a rate much more than the car maintaining or fuel costs, which encourages people to drive as much as possible to get extra tax free money. This is freaking great for our environment...

This is designed so that it's best to either be super rich (being able to circumvent the taxes in multiple ways), or be in the "higher low class" with low enough income so that the progression doesn't feel yet, then live wisely with what you have. Middle class easily pays 50-60% taxes (and they often feel they need to have high-class symbols they can't afford, typically bought with loans), and the absolutely lowest class tends to drop out through the gaping holes in the overly-complex social security system, whose primary purpose is to give "social security" to the social security workers themselves by having as many different parallel systems as possible, and a lot of paperwork. Here, it's rare not to receive any kind of monetary social benefit directly or indirectly, usually meaninglessly small for the big picture, but it keeps the bureaus running.

What it's worth, it's inevitable that living in a largish city with big premises is going to be expensive, but I guess this isn't news to anyone. While most seem to be suggesting downsizing the space requirements, my suggestion wouldn't necessarily be downsizing, but instead, maybe compromising with the location. Yeah, not that much café culture on countryside, but living peacefully closer to the nature may work as well. For me, my heart is in the forest, in serenity. (Which is one of the reasons I like being where I am, even though I loathe "the system".)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 17, 2018, 06:08:08 pm
This is designed so that it's best to either be super rich (being able to circumvent the taxes in multiple ways), or be in the "higher low class" with low enough income so that the progression doesn't feel yet

Absolutely, same as in France. I guess those countries that have (or at least pretend to have) heavy social programs actually tend to favor the super-rich. Something to think about.
Additionally, taxing productive work too much is counter-productive IMO and as you said, tends to be an incentive for tricking the system when you can. Not morally sane IMO.

What it's worth, it's inevitable that living in a largish city with big premises is going to be expensive, but I guess this isn't news to anyone. While most seem to be suggesting downsizing the space requirements, my suggestion wouldn't necessarily be downsizing, but instead, maybe compromising with the location

Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 18, 2018, 02:05:19 am
Absolutely, same as in France. I guess those countries that have (or at least pretend to have) heavy social programs actually tend to favor the super-rich. Something to think about.
Additionally, taxing productive work too much is counter-productive IMO and as you said, tends to be an incentive for tricking the system when you can. Not morally sane IMO.

Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
Even if your job doesn't tie you to a specific location, jobs tend to be clustered around city areas and also higher paying in those places. Only if your job is fully independent of the location it really pays.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 19, 2018, 02:25:46 am
Two words: Services Liberalization (http://www.thefutureworldofwork.org/media/35389/tisa-foul-play-uni-global-union-web-spreads.pdf).

Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
Even if your job doesn't tie you to a specific location, jobs tend to be clustered around city areas and also higher paying in those places. Only if your job is fully independent of the location it really pays.

Enjoy your life while you can! Just don't make any binding financial commitments based on things remaining as they are. Churners - like Fran's new LL, are likely to over-leverage themselves and find themselves in debt to the Mob. Except this time the Mob will be overseas investors who have no mercy. The sharks are circling.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 19, 2018, 03:00:12 am
They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
What % of the fee actually goes to the creators? What about creators who do not have it set up to accept payments? I don't think the ad free part is worth much when there are many free adblockers for that, but the premium content might be worth it. (What is "premium" content anyways? Movies?)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 19, 2018, 04:30:48 am
What % of the fee actually goes to the creators?

Complex algorithm. Depends on how long they watch, and how many others to watch. It gets auto-magically divvied up

Quote
What about creators who do not have it set up to accept payments?

Anyone who has a monetisation enabled gets Premium income as well if a premium user watches their video.

Quote
I don't think the ad free part is worth much when there are many free adblockers for that, but the premium content might be worth it. (What is "premium" content anyways? Movies?)

Movies and shows like Kobra Kai (worth it just for that!)
I think I can make content Premium users only, but haven't looked into that.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 19, 2018, 04:51:15 am
I'd be quite reluctant to pay for a service that "promises" to pay the creators without proof of how much actually goes to them. It could be something like 10% or less in which case it would be even more of a scam than record company deals. In contrast, Patreon boasts that 90% goes to the creator and some cryptocurrencies (not Bitcoin except for large transactions or special cases) do even more than that.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 19, 2018, 09:43:24 pm
She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!

https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/ (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 20, 2018, 02:36:24 am
Is she able to accept Paypal or Bitcoin?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Towger on October 20, 2018, 05:37:01 am
She has already exceeded her 10k goal in 13 hours.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 20, 2018, 11:04:20 am
She has already exceeded her 10k goal in 13 hours.
Which is roughly 5% of the time that EEVBlog forum wrung hands and tossed opinions about it... ;)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 22, 2018, 12:23:50 am
And now over $20K in just 2 days! :)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 22, 2018, 12:48:26 am
She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!

https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/ (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/)

 :-+
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 22, 2018, 03:11:08 am
Thats great. I hope she can get enough to find a good new space with room for her equipment.

Philly, with its gentrification, is still nowhere near as bad as SF or NYC!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 22, 2018, 04:06:05 am
I'm still creaming at the screen to let us help crowd source a place!
99% of the recommendations might be not suitable, but all it takes is that one gem of a place to make it all worthwile.
Finding a new place to uproot your life too must be very difficult, it's not like she it just moving a lab, it's her home as well.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Richard Crowley on October 22, 2018, 04:19:27 am
In two days Fran has raised over $21 thousand of her $10 thousand goal on Gofundme.
In an update video she said her landlord is helping to pay for moving, and the donation $$$ will go for a down payment on rent-to-buy in her new place.

Ref:  https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home)

https://youtu.be/RDO-lZfi_UE (https://youtu.be/RDO-lZfi_UE)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Towger on October 22, 2018, 05:06:34 am
I'm still creaming at the screen

Too much detail Dave,  we already know you have a thing for the vintage test equipment, even if it is in the background!!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 02:59:45 am
Thats great but - Fran if you read this, please try to raise more money. $20k may seem like a lot but - trust me, it isn't in any urban context. You should try to have this next move be a permanent one, i.e. try to buy a place to work and live if possible. Otherwise its not at all unlikely you'll find yourself in the same position again and all this is going to get old fast.

Some urban areas change so quickly you go away for a few years and when you come back you almost don't recognize it. The funky livable areas become popular and trendy and thats what kills them. All that oppressive trendy-ness makes it too popular which ruins everything, and of course its soon too expensive for the people who made it happen in the first place and they flee.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Richard Crowley on October 23, 2018, 03:08:19 am
In her latest update video, Fran reveals that she doesn't qualify for a mortgage for the very reasons @cdev reviewed. She (and millions of people) are condemned to be life-long renters because of their economic status.  :(
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 03:30:50 am
I had edited my post so let me recap them.. landlords 1.) want prospective renters to have perfect credit, as in have established credit, not just (like me) credit averse people who won't/ never buy things on credit. Many current city dwellers lack the credit history of suburbanites with their car and home loans, so right there they are at a huge disadvantage.

2.) Income - So they want people be not just employed and have an income, they want to see you employed with some well established firm and making at least 3 times the monthly rent, or have collateral that can be put up as security or

3) a co-signer, (who is often some rich young person's parents who assume the risk)

Also I had been told that now many people are broadly hinted that substantial bribes to the real estate agent will get them first crack at apartments that five or ten people with perfect credit and checkbooks at the ready all want.

All this works against most of us.

When I lived in San Francisco some people did a study and they concluded that something like 95% of the residents of San Francisco at that time could not afford to re-rent in the city if they lost their apartments and had to find another. (They also found that many older people who lost their rented homes ended up on the streets and soon 'were lost to follow up' as doctors writing medical papers put it. Vanished, in many cases died or were forced to move to places unknown. No forwarding address.. stuff put out on the sidewalk.)

I don't know how many of you live in the Bay Area but if you do and ride Cal Train you will notice that all along the railroad right of way there are countless homeless people living in corners and under highway overpasses, any place that affords even the slightest amount of shelter. Many, perhaps most of those people used to have normal lives. But something happened, somebody decided to buy and flip their building, is a common story, and poof.

That could be any of us.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 23, 2018, 03:46:41 am
You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 04:06:37 am
Back in the pre-gentrification San Francisco, there was a fair amount of very inexpensive housing that people were living in very creatively.

Housing is crucial to having a creative community.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 23, 2018, 11:46:48 am
I've never been to Philly and don't know it, but a quick search for >2000sqft places for rent under $1k/month found 84 places.
Are these dodgy areas?

(https://i.imgur.com/Ywsn95q.jpg)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: stevelup on October 23, 2018, 12:19:16 pm
To put that into perspective, the current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

I can't reconcile your numbers... We have 3750 square feet in Theale near Reading. This is a < 10 year old office/warehouse on a high-tech business park in a fully landscaped location with gigabit internet etc.

Your £70/sqft/annum figure is almost an order of magnitude higher than we're paying!

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 01:20:43 pm

If somebody is willing to live in an area thats not so trendy, deals are still out there.

What some of us are dealing with is the situation you can see laid out on sites like worstroom.com - the situation for residential spaces in places like SF, NYC and maybe a few others, where costs are sky high.  (and I use that term "residential" in a bit of an inappropriate way, as you will see if you look at it.)

Whats best is if you can live close enough to the city (whichever one it is) to get there by reliable, fast, public transportation in a short enough time to work there, without having to pay that much.

Thats getting harder and harder to find but its still out there. Many areas also have large industrial buildings that are not getting used to their full potential.
NJ might be more expensive than Philly, but then again it might not be. The downside is, apart from the downtown areas of the older communities its not that walkable really. People do their shopping in malls.

I wonder if there are spaces in the "Oranges"? Thats the former home of Thomas Edison's laboratory which is now a national monument. They seem to be very welcoming of innovative educational businesses.

Don't know about vacancies or cost. It might well be higher than Philly's environs. Or maybe not. I don't know.

Bloomfield, right next door to Montclair, has a walk in electronics parts counter,  NTE electronics, (website https://www.nteinc.com (https://www.nteinc.com) ) that handles all the major lines.

Really convenient for a small manufacturer to have that nearby.

Although many NJ areas are 'walkable' to a point, some areas more than others, realistically, unless she really planned things out, she would need to have a car to get around, especially when it comes to shopping for groceries, etc.

 Any car that passed the quite thorough inspections. Meaning one with low emissions, etc. Any car manufactured in the last 15-20 years or so would likely pass. A tiny car - ideally a hatch-back, would be fine.

One big plus is, its not that trendy, compared to NYC, SF, etc. Not by a long shot. But its still pricey compared to many other areas. So, hard to say whether it would be a good choice.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 23, 2018, 01:46:25 pm
She would need to have a car. Any car that passed the quite thorough inspections. Meaning one with low emissions, etc. Any car manufactured in the last 15-20 years or so would likely pass. A tiny car would be fine.
She owns a motorcycle and renting a truck would be the way to go for the move.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 02:04:00 pm
She would need to have a car. Any car that passed the quite thorough inspections. Meaning one with low emissions, etc. Any car manufactured in the last 15-20 years or so would likely pass. A tiny car would be fine.
She owns a motorcycle and renting a truck would be the way to go for the move.

U-Haul works out well. Thats definitely a good way to move. I don't trust other people to handle my electronic items. Many of them could be damaged by improper handling. There are also firms that will let you rent a metal box, a small storage container,  which they pick up and drop off, which you put your own lock on.  That works out really well too.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 23, 2018, 02:07:30 pm
You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.

countries with an extensive social safety net still have homeless people, usually a result of a mix of mental issues and substance abuse 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 23, 2018, 03:25:36 pm
Commuting to NYC would also be possible for me, although a lot more expensive than when I was a kid and I could get into the city for $0.95 ($0.60 for bus and another $0.35 for PATH train) And there is much more traffic now too. Its congested and people go nuts on the bus when its stuck in a traffic jam and they need to get to some meeting.

Also, if you commute, the fares add up quite a bit and come out of your pretax income.
Commuting costs coming out of pre-tax income is a good thing, right?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rrinker on October 23, 2018, 03:28:17 pm
 The thing is, just outside the city limits of Philadelphia would save a ton in taxes - they city is higher than the surrounding areas plus they have an additional sales tax above the state one, AND heaven help you if you are stuck within the city and like to have an occasional soda or other sweet drink, as there is a special extra tax on those things. Property is many of those just outside the city places would likely be less expensive as well.
 But I get it, some people are just city people. I know at least two other people who live well within the city of Philadelphia. They moan and complain about things all the time, but if you suggest there are other alternatives they immediately get defensive and complain that it's so much easier for them to get to things without a car (yet they pay a fortune to keep a car parked in the city so they can go to other places on occasion - go figure.  Where I live, no, I can't walk ot the mall (easily) or many of the restaurants around me, but those things also aren;t far. The traffic is not like driving in the city - it takes me 5 minutes to drive from my house to my office. Were I younger and in better shape, I could possibly bike it in nice weather, but I do live at the top of a fairly steep hill. Getting To work would be a breeze, it's getting home that would be less fun. I did live in Philly at one point, just started my first job out of college, and I was by myself, so a small place was affordable. Still had to drive to work, but I did have several close things I could walk to, which was nice. Thing is, when I later switched jobs and move outside of the city, the same rent money got me a larger 2 bedroom place that was as nice as the place I had in the city. It's all tradeoffs - for me I'd rather live where I have space (I have a decent size yard) rather than pay extra to live inside city limits, yet I am not in such a fancy area that housing costs are unaffordable - my house was relatively inexpensive compared to some places around me, but the neighborhood is good and fairly quiet.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 23, 2018, 03:29:33 pm
You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.

countries with an extensive social safety net still have homeless people, usually a result of a mix of mental issues and substance abuse

Yea
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 03:48:53 pm
A big problem everywhere is churning and churners. Insiders who radiate a particularly disturbing kind of aggressive entitlement. Their attitude is "all these other people have gotten rich off of X" "I have a right to do it too". Except X is some activity that ruins peoples lives and THEY have no escape from it. The limits that used to exist in the past have been quietly removed and now normal people are fair game for what amounts to a global shakedown.

That is likely to create a huge amount of homeless people in the US, people who did nothing wrong, who just had the misfortune to be alive now and in the way of greedy peoples profit-churning activities.  And the totally infuriating thing is, vast legions of these cult-like people don't listen to any kind of logic, and nomatter where in the world they are from, if you discuss them with them for awhile, the truth comes out, they consider these kinds of nasty things to be their entitlement. If you play along with them, the truth comes out.

Its a predator-prey relationship.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 05:39:35 pm
Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.

The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.

Lots of homeless people now have jobs. Somehow they manage this. Probably by staying with friends in a serial fashion or living in their cars.

Many jobs don't pay enough to keep a roof over ones head in the US. Add the coming changes which are being driven by new AI technologies and energy price increases due to export, and the large scale elimination of safety nets, using 'trade barrier' as an excuse, and the planned large scale outsourcing of many jobs using the Internet, and we have a recipe for a major, unprecedented disaster in the coming years.

You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.

countries with an extensive social safety net still have homeless people, usually a result of a mix of mental issues and substance abuse

Yea
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 23, 2018, 06:04:56 pm
Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.

The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
If you are putting Mexico in the "developed world" bucket, there are much worse places than US to be poor.

Quite frequently, disputes between drug cartels become quite violent in the slums of the main cities in Brasil. This one was a big one about a year ago:
https://youtu.be/uFZF3f8RtPY?t=20
(there are some fireworks mixed with guns, but a certain point you can hear what it looks like a .50 cal)

That is another in an area known as Gaza Strip in Rio:
https://youtu.be/7Ls36bf5uyM?t=1

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Richard Crowley on October 23, 2018, 06:18:54 pm
Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world".  Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US.  If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice. 

If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day?  Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written.  Are they all fools? 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: GreyWoolfe on October 23, 2018, 06:39:03 pm
The thing is, just outside the city limits of Philadelphia would save a ton in taxes - they city is higher than the surrounding areas plus they have an additional sales tax above the state one, AND heaven help you if you are stuck within the city and like to have an occasional soda or other sweet drink, as there is a special extra tax on those things. Property is many of those just outside the city places would likely be less expensive as well.
 But I get it, some people are just city people. I know at least two other people who live well within the city of Philadelphia. They moan and complain about things all the time, but if you suggest there are other alternatives they immediately get defensive and complain that it's so much easier for them to get to things without a car (yet they pay a fortune to keep a car parked in the city so they can go to other places on occasion - go figure.  Where I live, no, I can't walk ot the mall (easily) or many of the restaurants around me, but those things also aren;t far. The traffic is not like driving in the city - it takes me 5 minutes to drive from my house to my office. Were I younger and in better shape, I could possibly bike it in nice weather, but I do live at the top of a fairly steep hill. Getting To work would be a breeze, it's getting home that would be less fun. I did live in Philly at one point, just started my first job out of college, and I was by myself, so a small place was affordable. Still had to drive to work, but I did have several close things I could walk to, which was nice. Thing is, when I later switched jobs and move outside of the city, the same rent money got me a larger 2 bedroom place that was as nice as the place I had in the city. It's all tradeoffs - for me I'd rather live where I have space (I have a decent size yard) rather than pay extra to live inside city limits, yet I am not in such a fancy area that housing costs are unaffordable - my house was relatively inexpensive compared to some places around me, but the neighborhood is good and fairly quiet.

I am with you on this.  When I lived in S Florida, I rented a 1 bedroom apartment in a so-so neighborhood that Mrs GreyWoolfe laughingly called the room under the stairs, 550 sq ft, for $600 a month.  When I bought the house we have now in Central Florida is a small city of about 20K people, we have 3 X the size, 3 X the bedrooms for less than twice what I paid to rent.  Granted, the only thing we can walk to is the small convenience store outside the subdivision that is about a half mile away but everything we need is a short drive.  On top of that, I am a remote FSE working from home and Mrs GreyWoolfe works less than 3 miles from home.

If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day?  Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written.  Are they all fools? 

No, they are the smart ones.  We the people are the fools that keep electing government officials that encourage this to happen so they get extra, often illegal votes so they can stay in power. 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 06:41:05 pm
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world".  Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US.  If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice. 
I think you’ve got it all wrong. You do realize that a HUGE percentage of drug (and alcohol!) addiction is self-medication for otherwise untreated mental health problems? Nobody wants to become a heroin addict. It starts as an escape from some situation that feels even worse.

As the Vietnam war was wrapping up, there was a huge worry back home that returning GIs were going to become a huge wave of heroin addicts, because heroin use in the Vietnam war theater was rampant. But what actually happened was that very few veterans remained heroin users. As it turns out, the heroin use was popular over there because it was a way to cope with the horrors around them. Once removed from that situation, nearly all of them simply stopped using it.

Similar experiments performed more recently on rats show that they behave the exact same way: if their living situation is awful (i.e. a small cage with nothing to do), the rats will choose to use drugs, often choosing it in lieu of food. Take the same rats and put them into a “rat paradise” and they stop using the drugs, even if they remain available.

So, if you were homeless, do you think that’d be happy? Or do you think you’d feel desperate? Do you think you might want a little mental escape from that? (And before you compare developing nations, consider that relative wealth does make a difference mentally. Being destitute in a fundamentally rich country is a very different individual experience than it is in a country where almost everyone else is destitute, too!)

Yes, some people become homeless because of drug addiction (this is almost always due to unresolved mental health issues or traumas). But many become addicts because of homelessness and destitution!

So, maybe consider having a bit more sympathy for our homeless and those with substance abuse problems. Their story isn’t as simple as you think it is.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 06:43:14 pm
No, they are the smart ones.  We the people are the fools that keep electing government officials that encourage this to happen so they get extra, often illegal votes so they can stay in power.
Yeah, all those illegal votes that have proven to be pure fantasy invented by one party to create FUD.  :rant:
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 23, 2018, 06:57:19 pm
Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world".  Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US.  If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice. 

If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day?  Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written.  Are they all fools?
I think you need to add some gradients here. I'd guess that a lot of the homeless people became homeless due to an inability to work and no social security or family to fall back on. The rest of the misery probably followed later.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 07:25:51 pm
I think you need to add some gradients here. I'd guess that a lot of the homeless people became homeless due to an inability to work and no social security or family to fall back on. The rest of the misery probably followed later.
Absolutely. Most Americans are less than one paycheck away from being broke. 40% of Americans cannot afford an unexpected $400 expense! (https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/27/could-you-come-up-with-400-41-of-americans-cant.aspx)

And with American austerity-based safety nets in a political climate that assumes poverty to be a personal moral failing, meaningful safety nets do not exist.

Depending on who you believe and how it’s counted, 4% (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/) to 62% (https://www.thebalance.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729) of personal bankruptcies in USA are due to illness/disease (medical bills, loss of income, etc.). IMHO, it’s scandalous that even one person should go bankrupt due to illness or disease. Never mind hundreds of thousands per year. Not in a country that, as a whole (per-capita), is as wealthy as USA.

So one unexpected $500 medical bill, and almost half of Americans are at financial risk.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 23, 2018, 07:39:08 pm
I think you need to add some gradients here. I'd guess that a lot of the homeless people became homeless due to an inability to work and no social security or family to fall back on. The rest of the misery probably followed later.
Absolutely. Most Americans are less than one paycheck away from being broke. 40% of Americans cannot afford an unexpected $400 expense! (https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/27/could-you-come-up-with-400-41-of-americans-cant.aspx)

And with American austerity-based safety nets in a political climate that assumes poverty to be a personal moral failing, meaningful safety nets do not exist.

Depending on who you believe and how it’s counted, 4% (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/) to 62% (https://www.thebalance.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729) of personal bankruptcies in USA are due to illness/disease (medical bills, loss of income, etc.). IMHO, it’s scandalous that even one person should go bankrupt due to illness or disease. Never mind hundreds of thousands per year. Not in a country that, as a whole (per-capita), is as wealthy as USA.

So one unexpected $500 medical bill, and almost half of Americans are at financial risk.

Now how many of those people have new phones and cars? Health insurance with high premiums and deductibles? There are other things you can't measure reliably too, steps taken to improve the situation, earnest efforts to keep some money around. Actual skills vs what is required near them. There is never a single reason which is why the individuals are generally considered to be at fault. I read an article today on cnn where Seattle raised the min wage to 15 but people actually only make 1-2% more due to cut hours. This is in a busy urban area. Nothing said about cost of living changes though.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 07:46:59 pm
Simple: US wages are too low relative to cost of living. Nobody wants a high-deductible insurance policy. Phones are a necessity, as are reliable cars in nearly the entire country. You cannot set aside money you don’t have.

But go ahead, try and argue the poverty-as-a-moral-failing angle...
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 07:54:06 pm
P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.

(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 07:56:47 pm
P.P.S. Funny that you mention Seattle, since I just saw another article saying that the situation in Seattle is actually looking much better now than initially thought. https://apple.news/Ao8FDA_OmR7qNSQEJ-8rlvA
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 23, 2018, 08:07:04 pm
P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.

(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)

Actually I used to be poor. We had stores where things were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the normal chain stores. They had limited selection but everything you'd need. Bread, eggs, milk, cheese, canned goods, fresh fruit and vegetables, cream, some other "luxury" food stuffs but mostly essentials. As for Seattle the article is likely based on the same research which I haven't read so I'm not going to try to say much more than what I read. actually it looks like mostly the same article but on cnn business rather than just cnn.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 23, 2018, 08:12:53 pm
It depends a lot on where you are. Some places have cheap stores like that. Many poor urban neighborhoods do not, leaving people reliant on expensive corner stores.

Here’s a pertinent recent event from my adopted hometown, Baltimore: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 08:18:05 pm
Please don't get me wrong. This is my home and even with its problems I love it. I wouldn't complain if I didn't think there was hope. Its just that well organized, quite evil and cynical people are literally trying to steal all we hold dear and our futures. In ways that none of us would agree with. And they are also doing their best to divide us. Using contrived 'wedge issues' that divert attention and prevent discussion of the real problems.

No, I won't blame the victims. The people in places like LA's huge "Skid Row" area are just as often as not people who had some major misfortune happen to them and it just ruined their lives. The health care situation in the US in particular is absolutely criminal. And the situation, artificially prolonged by means of FTAs and endless negotiations over them, has kept our problems from ever getting solved. Even as huge numbers of Americans have died unnecessarily. This is clear as the nose on your face when you dig into the finer points of the connections between the General Agreement on Trade in Services and health insurance and other health care related issues. Healthcare/+ insurance/ + patients + medical staffing have become pawns - or maybe poker chips in a cynical international game.

If this became more widely known the media would be forced to cover it.

Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world".  Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US.  If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice. 

If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day?  Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written.  Are they all fools?

Why do we try to overthrow governments in other countries that attempt to better the conditions for their people, including Honduras, quite recently. Why?

BTW, those people from Honduras would be welcomed with open arms if they coughed up around $500,000 USD per person as an 'investment' in a condo.  A representative of the very well connected K****** family was recently reported to be giving seminars in China on how to do exactly that.  WTF?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 23, 2018, 08:23:47 pm
It depends a lot on where you are. Some places have cheap stores like that. Many poor urban neighborhoods do not, leaving people reliant on expensive corner stores.

Here’s a pertinent recent event from my adopted hometown, Baltimore: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore)

Yea, I was in kansas. There are some places where it's not great to be broke and poor but at some point you should consider moving then. It's what I did.  Multiple times actually. If you don't give up you can improve your situation. If you do give up or wait for someone else to change things for you though you probably have a low chance of improving things. This isn't for people with legitimate disabilities but I'm fairly certain that's not the majority of poor people in america.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 23, 2018, 08:29:51 pm
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.

many (poor people who should be risk-averse) who are barely surviving buy expensive HDHPs (which were designed for rich, healthy people only) (because otherwise the insurance costs more than they make in wages) and find that they are designed to strip them the poor of their coverage immediately when they get a serious illness (thats what the health insurance companies are experts at) So they pay faithfully for years until they get some diagnosis and then zap, the bills just push them out. Thats the way they are designed, their intent.

I do support a higher minimum wage because otherwise, peoples time gets all used up and they don't make any money. If they make a wage thats more substantial, sure, they don't have to work as many hours to make the same amount. Then its possible that they might be able to do something in that other time to get out of the rut, learn some new skill or get a better paying job.

Also, keep in mind that because of how austerity and also trade deals work, that minimum wage may become a great many peoples wage at some point. Including many engineers. (although getting their employers to actually pay it may be impossible as the wages might be paid overseas into overseas workers accounts, as was the case with the proposed $6.47/hr wage for the Malaysian engineer in the "Matter of i-corp" case.)

Here is the problem, young people's from around the world's parents now seem to be on the verge of paying so they can work. Sort of like internships in other fields, desperate people will have to work for almost nothing (well, actually, its possible US minimum wage, or maybe not, as it will be very hard to enforce in practice, because the money stays outside the country, and its disputed whether we even have the right to tell foreign staffing firms what to pay their workforce, who are likely talented young people just like our own. Desperate for some work experience. They are kept in a state of disempowerment - working for very little - for as much as several years - or maybe forever if the situation keeps getting worse. And it may, thanks to the technology we're creating.

... Paying for the experience.

The horrid experience..

The point I am getting at is that technology is changing the world in entirely new ways and we have to be aware that there are important debates we need to be having which are being suppressed.

This is being done to against all odds, (one would think that democracy would be seen as our way out, the democracy we have not had in a long time) But instead we're being so deluged with noise to put us and keep us in an ever deeper rut.  Common sense is all we need, that and truth. We are all in this together.

Now how many of those people have new phones and cars? Health insurance with high premiums and deductibles? There are other things you can't measure reliably too, steps taken to improve the situation, earnest efforts to keep some money around. Actual skills vs what is required near them. There is never a single reason which is why the individuals are generally considered to be at fault. I read an article today on cnn where Seattle raised the min wage to 15 but people actually only make 1-2% more due to cut hours. This is in a busy urban area. Nothing said about cost of living changes though.

Cost of living is not considered in setting wages under neoliberal ideology, its all based on the market, and supply and demand. Thats what we're headed for. So any explosion in labor saving technology (basically AI is functionally identical to workers who will work for almost nothing, just electrons) may be accompanied by huge falls in wages. This could happen even without the outsourcing and offshoring they will claim they "need" to do to 'restore profitability'. See where our greed takes us, if we tune out and fail to see how democracy is in danger globally in a way that hurts everybody?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 24, 2018, 01:20:49 am
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.


I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.

Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.

Then there are the most visible poor, the homeless population. Of the ones you see, a large majority are suffering from mental illness and/or drug addiction. I see them every day walking between my bus stop and office.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 24, 2018, 01:25:24 am
Actually I used to be poor. We had stores where things were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the normal chain stores. They had limited selection but everything you'd need. Bread, eggs, milk, cheese, canned goods, fresh fruit and vegetables, cream, some other "luxury" food stuffs but mostly essentials. As for Seattle the article is likely based on the same research which I haven't read so I'm not going to try to say much more than what I read. actually it looks like mostly the same article but on cnn business rather than just cnn.

There's a place like that down in Shelton, I often stop there when I'm in the area. They have all kinds of stuff that is past the "best by" date, damaged packages, discontinued, etc. I shop there not because I'm poor but because I'm cheap and I don't care if the box of cake mix is squished or a bottle of BBQ sauce is a little past the best by date. They also have produce for typically less than half the price of a regular grocery store, I sometimes buy several pounds of apples for dehydrating. You can't tell they're less than perfect once they've been dried.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 24, 2018, 10:00:40 am
It depends a lot on where you are. Some places have cheap stores like that. Many poor urban neighborhoods do not, leaving people reliant on expensive corner stores.

Here’s a pertinent recent event from my adopted hometown, Baltimore: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore)

Yea, I was in kansas. There are some places where it's not great to be broke and poor but at some point you should consider moving then. It's what I did.  Multiple times actually. If you don't give up you can improve your situation. If you do give up or wait for someone else to change things for you though you probably have a low chance of improving things. This isn't for people with legitimate disabilities but I'm fairly certain that's not the majority of poor people in america.
(I lived in Kansas from age 3-5! :P)

The problem is that many of America’s poor simply don’t even have the means to move. :( It’s another of those things that perpetuates poverty. (A slightly related issue is the one of transportation to work. I read recently that good public transit is one of the reasons why socioeconomic mobility is now better in Europe than in USA: A person can take a job that’s farther away, but pays much better, even if they don’t have a car to commute with. This is a HUGE problem in USA, where poverty causes people to be unable to have reliable transportation, without which they can’t get or keep a better job. American public transit is largely so bad as to be irrelevant.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 24, 2018, 11:43:16 am
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.

Those people aren't poor, they are just poor at money management.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sokoloff on October 24, 2018, 11:56:07 am
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Those people aren't poor, they are just poor at money management.
If you have a total net worth below $0 (or hell, below $2K), you're poor in my book. If we use that definition, I see a lot of poor people with new phones, new cars, drinking $5 cups of hot water poured over beans, and regularly eating meals prepared for them.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 24, 2018, 12:02:21 pm
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Those people aren't poor, they are just poor at money management.
If you have a total net worth below $0 (or hell, below $2K), you're poor in my book. If we use that definition, I see a lot of poor people with new phones, new cars, drinking $5 cups of hot water poured over beans, and regularly eating meals prepared for them.

 :palm:

Those people aren't poor if they have a $1000 iPhone, a fancy car, and are eating smashed avo toast (aussies will know what I mean) and three cafe coffees every day. They are simply crap with management of their money and spend beyond their means.
Poor is having no money to begin with, not having money and blowing it all on lifestyle choices so you end up being forever in debt.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: IanMacdonald on October 24, 2018, 12:41:56 pm
Those people aren't poor if they have a $1000 iPhone

You are talking two orders of magnitude more money to buy a house. The problem is that houses, like designer clothes, fetch silly prices. They aren't even worth what you have to pay for them.

As for drugs being self-medication for mental health problems, that might be right on the nail where teenagers and school is concerned. A major overhaul of that institution is needed.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 24, 2018, 02:38:45 pm
At my local chain drugstore they sell prepay smartphones which look just like top of the line cellphone brands.

Price, around $30. They look expensive but aren't.

Also, some cities have programs to give poor people prepay phones with a small number of calls, basically so they can be notified of appointments they need to keep. (also they can probably be tracked via GPS)

The cell phones are basic Android based cell phones.

As far as new cars, that is - just wrong.

Maintaining any car successfully (and keeping it out of the impound garage in any city) requires resources that poor people rarely if ever have.

Just simply renting a garage or parking space in many urban areas costs substantial sums of money.

(Insurance does too!)

Parking a car on a street and moving it when that is needed, requires knowledge of when streets are going to be cleaned and a daily attention to detail, as well as having immediate access to funds to bail a car out if its towed,  that is guaranteed to trip up those who don't have a stable life situation.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tom66 on October 24, 2018, 03:09:34 pm
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.

Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.

It's very easy to demonise people for living beyond their means,  but you don't know their financial situation.

In the UK, the average salary is £27,000,  but the average house is over £250,000, so only high earners or lucky well-paid professional couples can buy them.  Even a basic two-bedroom flat in the SE of England,  where many well paying jobs are located,  will cost your north of £200k.

The only option you have if you ever want to escape the cycle of renting is to mortgage a house for 90% of its value (and finding £30,000 to put down, once agents fees and moving costs are accounted for) and hope that house prices don't crash because if they do,  you will be trapped in negative equity for the next twenty years, unable to move out of the house you now despise.

So we've built a society that essentially continues propping up house prices and rents to support those who own,  because we're so afraid of the damage this could cause,  but this is just at the expense of everyone else who don't own homes.  This problem is unsolvable without upsetting a substantial portion of the population, namely the ones who tend to vote (older generations, baby boomers typically.)

When you see people with the latest iPhone or drinking coffee from Starbucks,  perhaps that's their escape from their financial destitution.  At the end of the day, I really doubt £40 a month makes much difference when your paycheque is ~20% more than your rent every month.    They are never going to be able to afford to  buy a home.   And a brand new car - who knows how they're paying for that?  But you can finance cars for under £100 per month in the UK,  that can be less than an unexpected mechanical bill on a used car.  What if you don't have the £5k to buy a decent used car up front, anyway?  You end up trapped in a loop on credit after credit.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MT on October 24, 2018, 03:54:05 pm
P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.

(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)

And sickness (not even cancer) for a month or less can and have made some go into personal bankrutt!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 24, 2018, 04:18:03 pm

It's very easy to demonise people for living beyond their means,  but you don't know their financial situation.

In the UK, the average salary is £27,000,  but the average house is over £250,000, so only high earners or lucky well-paid professional couples can buy them.  Even a basic two-bedroom flat in the SE of England,  where many well paying jobs are located,  will cost your north of £200k.

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to chance


The only option you have if you ever want to escape the cycle of renting is to mortgage a house for 90% of its value (and finding £30,000 to put down, once agents fees and moving costs are accounted for) and hope that house prices don't crash because if they do,  you will be trapped in negative equity for the next twenty years, unable to move out of the house you now despise.

has there ever been a time where it took more than max 10 years to break even?

So we've built a society that essentially continues propping up house prices and rents to support those who own,  because we're so afraid of the damage this could cause,  but this is just at the expense of everyone else who don't own homes.  This problem is unsolvable without upsetting a substantial portion of the population, namely the ones who tend to vote (older generations, baby boomers typically.)

how would you change that houses are worth what people willing to pay for them, mandate a maximum price? here there are certain type of houses that have a fixed price,  when that is much less than the free market value it usually means bags of cash change hands to
be the "lucky" buyer

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 24, 2018, 06:02:10 pm
She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!

https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/ (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/)
Just checked the page but no Paypal button??
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 24, 2018, 08:24:43 pm

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change



Technology changes things rapidly.

Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?

Then lots of housing may become available in the areas where jobs are lost, all around the world, because people who have loans may be unable to meet payments.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 24, 2018, 08:47:20 pm

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change

Technology changes things rapidly.

Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?
That ain't gonna happen.
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jose_Duarte/publication/227229384/figure/fig1/AS:316765855862797@1452534273235/Worker-feeding-machine-Still-from-Charlie-Chaplins-Modern-Times-s-1936_W840.jpg)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 24, 2018, 09:03:23 pm

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change



Technology changes things rapidly.

Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?

Then lots of housing may become available in the areas where jobs are lost, all around the world, because people who have loans may be unable to meet payments.

yes, so where there are no well paid jobs housing will be cheap

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: a59d1 on October 24, 2018, 09:42:25 pm
Parking a car on a street and moving it when that is needed, requires knowledge of when streets are going to be cleaned and a daily attention to detail, as well as having immediate access to funds to bail a car out if its towed,  that is guaranteed to trip up those who don't have a stable life situation.

People survive for a long time without any of that preparation.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 25, 2018, 03:56:08 pm
If someone is drinking coffee at Starbucks and have the latest iPhone to escape their financial situation, they're doing it wrong. That is irrational behavior, behavior which I was able to easily avoid so I know it's not that hard. When someone is living sensibly and still struggling then I'll be far more sympathetic.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 30, 2018, 12:05:30 am
Latest update.
She can get into a nice space, but they want 1 years rent up front, $30k or so, which seems crazy.

I wonder if she can separate working and living spaces. i.e. get a small apartment to live in and rent a commercial lab space somewhere?
Does Philly have commercial business parks like we do here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 30, 2018, 12:19:54 am
Just had a quick look at commercial realestate in Philly, and I can't seem to find prices on anything, is this normal?

https://www2.colliers.com/en/Properties/#sort=date%20descending&f:propertytype=[Office,Industrial]&f:_91F90D81-D1CE-4EF8-AC35-41F58B651EE8=[2000..5000]&f:lat=[39.11795702025965..40.17534721445156]&f:long=[-78.61342166379006..-71.62886355832131]&location=Philadelphia%2C%20PA%2C%20USA&offeringtype=For%20Lease

https://www2.colliers.com/en/properties/class-a-office-building/USA-1020-laurel-oak-road-voorhees-nj/USA1023571

Here we have lease prices on almost all listings and consolidated websites were all the different agents list their properties on one website.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 30, 2018, 01:48:03 am
Probably not right inside the city like we do in suburbia. My memories of Philly the times I have been there is that its the classic East Coast city with a downtown of a mix of older, mostly red brick industrial spaces and some modern buildings, a fair amount of modern buildings but many of them are themselves aging, maybe dating back to the 70s and 80s. Philly also has lots of very old houses, some single family, others converted into flats. The last time I was there was around six years ago, and even though many many neighborhoods have seen a lot of restorative energy and fresh paint, and are kind of gentrified, it still has its share of run down housing thats not that far from abandonment. Some towns in the area (on the NJ side of the river) are realistically, close to being slums.

Riding through Philly on the train in the distant past (a really long time ago and memories are very hazy) not regularly, (because I lived in CA back then) what is called the Eastern corridor, I used to see a lot of English looking row housing, some of it nice, but most of it kind of run down. (Thinking about it though, I may be confusing Philly with Baltimore, thats quite possible, the Amtrak train goes through both areas)

Much of that is likely gone by now. Some parts of that area are also very upscale. NJ has a lot of industrial parks, one area that has a lot of electronics is the Princeton area which is not that far from Philly. But its expensive. Probably way too expensive for Fran.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tom66 on October 30, 2018, 08:42:15 am

in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to chance

Thing is - it's all over the country

Unless you live absolutely in the middle of nowhere,  you're going to be paying at least £150,000 for a home.  For instance I live in the NE of England,  where the average salary is £23k and the house price average is still around £180k.  That's still a ratio of >7:1 so most banks will not loan you the money to buy the house without a substantial downpayment...and good luck putting that downpayment down when you're paying £7-8k a year in rent alone.

how would you change that houses are worth what people willing to pay for them, mandate a maximum price? here there are certain type of houses that have a fixed price,  when that is much less than the free market value it usually means bags of cash change hands to
be the "lucky" buyer
There's no free market with houses, we have a bunch of people who own land in vast swathes,  who continue to sit on that land because it appreciates in value.  Building houses would decrease the value of their land, so few homes get built.

The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes.  Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created,  which is not easy.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrW0lf on October 30, 2018, 09:57:57 am
The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes.  Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created,  which is not easy.

Building homes goes against the general idea of concentrating people in cities. So building home needs to be difficult and expensive. Here they made sure it wont be even a habitable home by forcing A energy rating on new private buildings from 2020. This will mean unreasonable amount of insulation materials and everything rotting forever with even slightest issue with vapor control membranes or violation of building procedures. They are experimenting with this in Scandinavia for some time in public building sector and these are notorious mold nests. Kindergartens, schools etc...
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tom66 on October 30, 2018, 11:57:35 am
The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes.  Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created,  which is not easy.

Building homes goes against the general idea of concentrating people in cities. So building home needs to be difficult and expensive. Here they made sure it wont be even a habitable home by forcing A energy rating on new private buildings from 2020. This will mean unreasonable amount of insulation materials and everything rotting forever with even slightest issue with vapor control membranes or violation of building procedures. They are experimenting with this in Scandinavia for some time in public building sector and these are notorious mold nests. Kindergartens, schools etc...

Some people don't want to live in cities.  And raising children is awful in a flat. So we need more homes.

But anyway, we are still not even building enough flats, when a flat in the city centre of Leeds costs £300,000 for two bedrooms. Even outskirts, lower than £150,000 is rare.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 30, 2018, 01:48:41 pm
This (see link (http://members.iinet.net.au/~jenks/GATS_BC2001.html)) is relevant to the housing problem everywhere, just about, too. Worth reading, it explains a lot.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 30, 2018, 05:23:34 pm
The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: technix on October 30, 2018, 06:14:23 pm
The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
At least you have swaths of habitable land, and there is no need to literally blow a mountain up to construct infrastructure if people are to be spaced out. With that geography it is possible to space out the population if the government is willing to invest in the infrastructure.

Countries like China has swaths of inhospitable mountain ranges and deserts. Every inch of halfway habitable land is already densely populated yet we still have to put people into those hostile locations and have trouble lift them out of poverty. Here in China almost the entire southwestern quarter of the mainland of the country is covered in one of the largest mountain ranges and the highest plateau in the world - this mountain range starts not far west from Shenzhen really. And the northern half, with the exception of the strip next to ocean, is desert. A newly constructed highway, G7 Beijing-Urumqi Expressway running almost the entire length of northern China, has a few hundred-mile stretches crossing literally no man’s land, not even a gas station. just road.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 30, 2018, 07:59:39 pm
Well you Chinese have lots of sea-shore as well. Call Arcadis and have them convert sea (or lakes) into land. Problem solved.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 30, 2018, 08:36:49 pm
It seems that China might do well to buy some additional land in the northeast from Russia.

We should be less obsessed by growth and put more energy into improving the quality of life for people.

The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
At least you have swaths of habitable land, and there is no need to literally blow a mountain up to construct infrastructure if people are to be spaced out. With that geography it is possible to space out the population if the government is willing to invest in the infrastructure.

Countries like China has swaths of inhospitable mountain ranges and deserts. Every inch of halfway habitable land is already densely populated yet we still have to put people into those hostile locations and have trouble lift them out of poverty. Here in China almost the entire southwestern quarter of the mainland of the country is covered in one of the largest mountain ranges and the highest plateau in the world - this mountain range starts not far west from Shenzhen really. And the northern half, with the exception of the strip next to ocean, is desert. A newly constructed highway, G7 Beijing-Urumqi Expressway running almost the entire length of northern China, has a few hundred-mile stretches crossing literally no man’s land, not even a gas station. just road.

I do think that the world generally including the US has lots more build-able and habitable land than many make out. One problem you pointed out, frankly, they aren't willing to invest in the infrastructure.

Imagine a landlord who is fixated on short term profit generation, and not investment for the long haul.

The very good thing is technology. Technology is the return on the investment by the entire human race in knowledge, an investment that now is paying back large dividends, gains which uniquely, could be shared without taking from people. Technology by itself is a radically win win thing, not a zero sum game.

We have to rise to the challenges it presents us and figure out what to do. Its the biggest challenge we've ever faced.

We could easily solve the housing problem by applying technology to the making of high quality homes. Houses can be manufactured and not be cheaply made. It would be smart to do that. But ... (see the link I posted earlier to the web site in Australia, the same applies to us)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rrinker on October 30, 2018, 08:50:53 pm
I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.


I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.

Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.

Then there are the most visible poor, the homeless population. Of the ones you see, a large majority are suffering from mental illness and/or drug addiction. I see them every day walking between my bus stop and office.

 Indeed. Just come here and I will take you into the city I live just outside of and show you the cars, which aren't fancy, but have sets of wheels and tires on them worth probably 10x what the car is, with a stereo system installed that is so loud you can hear them coming from blocks away. It's quite common around here. Enough so that there are plenty of places to take advantage of these people's poor money management and decision making skills - often the wheels and tires are RENTED - yes, you can RENT TO OWN wheels and tires for you car, so even if you don't have a couple thousand dollars for the bling bling rims, you don;t need to feel left out. The stereo and speakers are probably rented, too. Now, many are quick to condemn these companies for taking advantage, but they most definitely are not forcing anyone to pay their ridiculously high prices (after the terms are up, you do own whatever it is you are renting, however by that time you will have easily paid 2-3x or even more vs just buying the item. But then if you can't afford to just outright buy the item - but these aren't necessities, a better money manager would just save up and do without until they can buy the desired item, or really not buy it at all because you simply don't need it.). No one is standing outside these stores and tossing people inside and making them stay until they sign a rental agreement for some piece of electronic gear, or furniture, or whatever. These places exist because there ARE people who will pay their prices just to get things NOW. Who's fault is that really?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 30, 2018, 08:59:08 pm
If young people are denied opportunities for advancement in the system thats dominant, they will create alternative hierarchies "subcultures" they can rise in - its a primal need thats tied to reproduction.

Evolutionary biology explains a lot of things people do, in ways which might not be obvious at first but when you see it, it makes perfect sense.

OTOH, IF we were smarter, we would protect poor people from predatory lending instead of encouraging it.

Oh, and electronics of certain kinds is now cheap enough so that it at least, should not be that expensive. 

Music is good for all of us. Basic furniture doesn't have to be that expensive either. Furniture can be nice without being expensive. There is no law that says we have to have a society that attempts to make people miserable unless they buy lots of stuff they can't afford. That attempts to measure people's intrinsic worth by how much they spend. But we do.

But, if people had a better support network and less stress they wouldn't need to buy useless stuff to feel happy. Actually, learning is a flow experience that competes positively with all the others well. It can help keep people sane in a world of problems.

Learning is fun. Everybody needs to have some fun from time to time. Fun doesn't necessarily cost money. Its good for people.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: thm_w on October 30, 2018, 09:52:58 pm
Latest update.
She can get into a nice space, but they want 1 years rent up front, $30k or so, which seems crazy.

I wonder if she can separate working and living spaces. i.e. get a small apartment to live in and rent a commercial lab space somewhere?
Does Philly have commercial business parks like we do here?

youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI

Gofundme is at 41k, so she has the money.

Some prices here: https://www.loopnet.com/pennsylvania/philadelphia-commercial-real-estate/ (https://www.loopnet.com/pennsylvania/philadelphia-commercial-real-estate/)
Anywhere from $6-25 /sf/yr. $30k for 4,000 sqft would be $7.50 which is reasonable I guess.

Rent for apartment would be another $700-1k per month.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 30, 2018, 10:48:59 pm
I just rented the new lab at $40k gross a year. It's certainly not cheap (well, actually it is kinda cheap for my business park), but I'm paying for the privilege of being close to home, i.e. basically no commute to work (2 minutes by car, 5 minutes by bike, 17min walk)
If would be a different story if I was single with no dependencies like Fran, there would be far more options to uproot where and how I live.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 30, 2018, 10:57:47 pm
For sure.

One thing that Fran hasn't said, but perhaps could be a factor in her reluctance to move out of her neighborhood in Philly, is her belonging to a minority group that is currently under active, rabid siege by the conservative right (all the way up to the White House, which has now erased all mention of that group from all federal websites). On the one hand, she's not going to want to move to a state where attempting to use the bathroom could get her beat up or arrested, and on the other hand, she probably has a substantial social/support network in Philly that she does not want to leave behind. (I know that as a gay man, there are many parts of the USA I would be hesitant to move to, and I understand the importance of having people like yourself around.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 30, 2018, 11:35:32 pm
It's an interesting experience being a minority straight person/couple in a mostly gay neighborhood. The thing to take away is that its really safe for people of all kinds. Because gay people are attacked all the time, or at least were, in the past, many gay people carried/wore/wear whistles. If they were being attacked, they could blow a whistle and lots of people would be out on the streets to protect them, in seconds.

Plus its clean and well kept up. And stores, like food stores are open late. Its also child friendly, lots of gay couples are parents, they adopt. Culturally, its not that different than any other urban area with just these few exceptions.

The downside now is of course, then and especially now, the whole urban everything is insanely expensive, especially nicer neighborhoods.

While there, I also had trans neighbors. Once my trans neighbor and I had to fend off a crazy person who had come down our air shaft and gotten trapped in the small space outside our two apartments. They ended up climbing back up to the roof on the piping. (Our landlord in that building was not into repairing things like the front door's electric lock, so homeless people would get in, sometimes take drugs in the hallways, and sometimes we had to call the police to get them out of there.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Macbeth on October 31, 2018, 12:19:53 am
It is fucking absurd to say that Fran is being chucked out because of trans when she is the final victim (and she is a victim as all the tenants have been)

Everyone is treated like shit here.  :--
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on October 31, 2018, 12:40:09 am
I saw that last video and I found it disturbing that they regard Fran as someone who is not good or high class for not earn a stable income and they want rich people with steady incomes only to have the space equivalent to the lab and that money may run out next year and may end up homeless.

Most food citizens work part time and I'd imagine Fran lives to work all day and night as for living there.

I think of greedy Landlords as being blood sucking vampires who sink their fangs into their victims savings and income.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 31, 2018, 12:54:35 am
I've been thinking about this a lot, and trying to search for places, and I ultimately think Fran needs to take a risk and move out of Philly.
Many of the Youtube comments have interesting points about being able to buy a place or at least put a put deposit on place in a smaller town.
I know in her position you have to pick your locations carefully, but surely that's not impossible. Maybe hop on the LGBT forums (I assume there are ones) and ask around for location recommendations.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on October 31, 2018, 01:28:20 am
Thats not true. many landlords are not big property owners. Maybe they have a house and needed to rent it for some reason. A common situation is a job takes somebody somewhere else but they want to come back in the future. A bad tenant who damages the property or doesn't pay rent can be financially devastating to a small landlord. Its a complicated situation that broad generalizations don't do justice to. 

I saw that last video and I found it disturbing that they regard Fran as someone who is not good or high class for not earn a stable income and they want rich people with steady incomes only to have the space equivalent to the lab and that money may run out next year and may end up homeless.

Most food citizens work part time and I'd imagine Fran lives to work all day and night as for living there.

I think of greedy Landlords as being blood sucking vampires who sink their fangs into their victims savings and income.

Sometimes that is quite true, but more often than not its not. I've probably rented more than a dozen places in my life and Ive only had bad landlords three times, and two of them were really bad. (So bad they were both in serious trouble with the local building authorities over safety violations) But the others were all good. Several were like family.

Edit: That said, there are so many people being forced out of cities now, its really horrible. People should be aware that the choice to vote for any kind of not for profit anything has been taken away by trade agreements and nobody has been told this. The same has occurred for other once public services. Even public higher education is under attack. All this is being hidden. So our votes are being stolen, if thats what we want from politicians, they rigged the system so we wont get it without telling anybody. All around the world. That basically means that cities, where the decent public transport is, where most of the jobs are, have been made unaffordable for most of the people who live in them today. We just don't know it yet.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 31, 2018, 01:37:57 am
After watching the last video, I cringed at the idea of even considering giving so much money upfront for a rental unit - imagine if that was the case at her current place? If such place seems to be looking for upper class citizens (and presumably "clean" and "spotless" units), I can't help but imagine the owners or direct neighbours (assuming it is either a strip mall or an office park) would try to push her out anyways if they consider her business undesirable for the place - it could go from simple petty harassment to the extent of "accidents" or other shady rental contract clauses. The difference in this case would be the heavy financial leverage the owners would have over her.

At any rate, if time is of the essence (considering the old place will become a construction site), she could plan renting one or a few air conditioned storage facilities to place 90~95% of the lab equipment, get a small month-to-month rent place to sleep and take one or two months (not more than that) to carefully search properties in the area. After getting the unit, clear the storage entirely so you don't bleed financially storing unused equipment.

We did this when we sold our previous house but did not have another one lined up - it took us exactly two months of an apartment rent and a storage unit. However, the key word in this is discipline - if you slack or get analysis paralysis, the transitional phase becomes permanent.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: eugenenine on October 31, 2018, 02:44:51 am
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

I've learned that even if you own you still need to be mobile.  The neighborhoods around ours were 'gentrified' and so everyone who was forced out of those came into ours.  We had houses being flipped and hiding from baby's daddy renters along with the typical drug dealers and wannabe gang bangers.  We had to sell and move.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on October 31, 2018, 07:42:00 am
In the latest video Shocking! Terrifying! Halloween Toy Autopsy! on The Raven Poems it sounds really sad, maybe i am getting the wrong end of the stick but the poems seem connected to the situation. I also mean with the trouble of being locked out of Patreon and not getting the donations through.

"A visitor tapping on the chamber door only this. Nothing more."
"Had to borrow from books sir case of sorrow"
"I opened wide the door, darkness there, nothing more."

It can be like Fran clutching at straws if things don't go well after the move.

Made me feel miserable hearing that.

Sounds caught in a trap in not being able to secure property with a mortgage.
I suppose everyone will have to donate even more down the line so that Fran doesn't end up becoming homeless.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 31, 2018, 11:07:01 pm
It is fucking absurd to say that Fran is being chucked out because of trans when she is the final victim (and she is a victim as all the tenants have been)

Everyone is treated like shit here.  :--
Yes. It would be absurd to say that she’s being chucked out for being trans. But literally nobody said or otherwise suggested that.

I brought up being trans as a potential explanation for why she is so intent on staying not just in Philly, but in the neighborhood, as opposed to moving to the countryside (where real estate is cheap) as many people have suggested to her. 

And just to be clear, this is just idle speculation on my part, as a gay person myself. She’s said absolutely nothing about this issue either way. It could be entirely other reasons behind her desire to stay local.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 31, 2018, 11:17:17 pm
In the latest video Shocking! Terrifying! Halloween Toy Autopsy! on The Raven Poems it sounds really sad, maybe i am getting the wrong end of the stick but the poems seem connected to the situation. I also mean with the trouble of being locked out of Patreon and not getting the donations through.

She is locked out of Patreon, but I don't think the donations will stop, her existing bank account setup should continue to work just fine.
She just can't access it to say thanks and post updates etc. Still sucks of course.

Quote
Sounds caught in a trap in not being able to secure property with a mortgage.
I suppose everyone will have to donate even more down the line so that Fran doesn't end up becoming homeless.

That' why I think she needs to make the move now, otherwise it's just kicking the can one year down the road.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 31, 2018, 11:18:27 pm
And just to be clear, this is just idle speculation on my part, as a gay person myself. She’s said absolutely nothing about this issue either way. It could be entirely other reasons behind her desire to stay local.

It is a factor, trust me.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 12:37:07 am
Here in the US I can see a very wide range of communities ranging from welcoming to indifferent to hostile to different people. (Meaning different of every kind) The tolerant communities are the ones where people do the best in. And living with different people we realize that they are oftentimes more like ourselves than we realized. And, then we get along. Even get along great.

We really do need to step back and take a look at ourselves and realize that intolerance is not a trait that is positively correlated with either survival or prosperity.

The people some want us to be is not the people we are or that we want to be. We're not the people the haters are trying to turn us into.

Its surprising how people from wildly divergent backgrounds can and do get along when they find themselves in welcoming environment with one another.  I've seen it happen.

Thats when magical things happen in terms of creativity, too.

What are we afraid of, success?

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 12:54:26 am
Why is Fran locked out of Patreon?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Richard Crowley on November 01, 2018, 01:28:26 am
I live in the greater Portland, Oregon area and Portland is the 2nd ranked LGBT-friendly city according to NerdWallet
Ref:  https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/ (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/)

The #1 city is San Francisco (surpassing Seattle). However, SF is also the #1 most expensive city to live in the US.

Portland has a good maker-community and Fran would find a much more friendly reception here. And Portland plays the role of "San Francisco" to the Silicon Forest" which is well beyond just Intel and Tek and Micron, et.al.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on November 01, 2018, 01:59:52 am
I live in the greater Portland, Oregon area and Portland is the 2nd ranked LGBT-friendly city according to NerdWallet
Ref:  https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/ (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/)

The #1 city is San Francisco (surpassing Seattle). However, SF is also the #1 most expensive city to live in the US.

Portland has a good maker-community and Fran would find a much more friendly reception here. And Portland plays the role of "San Francisco" to the Silicon Forest" which is well beyond just Intel and Tek and Micron, et.al.
For sure. But Portland is also very expensive. I haven’t looked at any numbers, but I doubt it’s much cheaper than Philly — and the cost of moving the lab cross-country would consume a significant amount of budget.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on November 01, 2018, 02:03:40 am
Here in the US I can see a very wide range of communities ranging from welcoming to indifferent to hostile to different people. (Meaning different of every kind) The tolerant communities are the ones where people do the best in. And living with different people we realize that they are oftentimes more like ourselves than we realized. And, then we get along. Even get along great.

We really do need to step back and take a look at ourselves and realize that intolerance is not a trait that is positively correlated with either survival or prosperity.

The people some want us to be is not the people we are or that we want to be. We're not the people the haters are trying to turn us into.

Its surprising how people from wildly divergent backgrounds can and do get along when they find themselves in welcoming environment with one another.  I've seen it happen.

Thats when magical things happen in terms of creativity, too.

What are we afraid of, success?
:::sigh:::

The sad thing is that so many Americans seem to have forgotten the extent to which our diversity enriched us as a nation, and have now reverted to “everyone who came before me is OK, but no more!” and rabid interpretations of the Bible to justify their internal bigotry. But above all, they’ve been emboldened. As a multiple targeted minority (gay and half Latin American, and the bonus of being honorary “eurotrash” for having lived here — yes, I’ve been called that in USA), this both saddens and terrifies me.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on November 01, 2018, 02:07:15 am
is Philadelphia a ghetto?

yep confirmed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLTkIhdyYjY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLTkIhdyYjY)

have faith

'Even if your hood looks bombed and depleted don't let your soul be defeated.  Faith in Jesus Christ saves eternally.   This life is temporary.  Material things will always fade and crumble. '
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 02:48:29 am
They should tax houses that sit vacant really really heavily. I think that is the #1 beef about housing - many East Coast Americans cite Europeans, but really, the problem is not evenly distributed. Some Russians are absentee landlords, on the West Coast people blame Chinese but I think reently laws there have limited foreign investment.

The buying up of housing and people not living in it is not confined to any one country. On the West Coast vacant houses that are kept empty - but are investments are called 'ghost houses'. many of them are not kept up and they just sit there, a constant reminder of growing inequality.
Here in the US I can see a very wide range of communities ranging from welcoming to indifferent to hostile to different people. (Meaning different of every kind) The tolerant communities are the ones where people do the best in. And living with different people we realize that they are oftentimes more like ourselves than we realized. And, then we get along. Even get along great.

We really do need to step back and take a look at ourselves and realize that intolerance is not a trait that is positively correlated with either survival or prosperity.

The people some want us to be is not the people we are or that we want to be. We're not the people the haters are trying to turn us into.

Its surprising how people from wildly divergent backgrounds can and do get along when they find themselves in welcoming environment with one another.  I've seen it happen.

Thats when magical things happen in terms of creativity, too.

What are we afraid of, success?
:::sigh:::

The sad thing is that so many Americans seem to have forgotten the extent to which our diversity enriched us as a nation, and have now reverted to “everyone who came before me is OK, but no more!” and rabid interpretations of the Bible to justify their internal bigotry. But above all, they’ve been emboldened. As a multiple targeted minority (gay and half Latin American, and the bonus of being honorary “eurotrash” for having lived here — yes, I’ve been called that in USA), this both saddens and terrifies me.

I have it from somebody I trust that there are fake bigots online, people who are literally being paid to go online and pretend to be bigots. At least thats what I think he was trying to tell me in our short half hour long lunchtime conversation over beer.

This person is an ad industry veteran who came here from Europe during an era when everybody in Europe smoked. He went to work defending 'smokers rights'.  Now he no longer smokes and has put on a lot of weight.

he knows a lot about the darker side of the online world. I hadn't seen him in years, since before the Internet existed, so thats what we talked about.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on November 01, 2018, 03:01:45 am
They should tax houses that sit vacant really really heavily. I think that is the #1 beef that many East Coast Americans have with Europeans, their buying up housing and not living in it. There is a similar problem on the West Coast with so called 'ghost houses'. many of them are not kept up and they just sit there, a constant reminder of growing inequality.
I've heard Europeans accused of many things by Americans, but believe me, this isn't one of them! I have absolutely no idea where you got this idea, but it's got no foundation in reality. I can't rule out that it might be the case in some very specific locations, but it's absolutely not the case on the east coast as a whole. Heck, Europeans don't even buy homes in their home countries nearly as much as Americans do, never mind vacation or investment homes in USA. (Most of USA is not that attractive to Europeans, to be blunt.) I'm not saying that no Europeans own US real estate, but this just is not a reason why Americans hate on Europeans!!!

I don't think you can generalize about the west coast, either, but in San Francisco specifically, you have a weird situation where there is a severe housing shortage AND high vacancy, because their tenancy laws make it essentially impossible to evict a tenant, so when people buy a building they want to convert back into a single-family house, or merge a few apartments into a bigger one for their own use, they cannot have anyone living in it. So as tenants move of their own volition, they don't re-rent, but just keep it vacant until the building (or the adjacent units) is free and they can begin construction.

Meanwhile, look at places like London and New York, which really do have tons of high-end real estate being bought as investment properties by ultrawealthy investors from China, Russia, and the Middle East. (Switzerland largely put an end to this, to stop such investment from making mountain resort villages desolate outside of the ski season, as well as pricing locals out of the real estate market. Some of those villages passed laws outlawing vacation home sales, i.e. mandating that it must be a primary residence.)


Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on November 01, 2018, 03:28:07 am
Yes, I know that's a real thing. But few Europeans are responsible for that, and even fewer Americans put this anywhere on their list of gripes about Europeans! ;)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 03:40:05 am
Yes, I know that's a real thing. But few Europeans are responsible for that, and even fewer Americans put this anywhere on their list of gripes about Europeans! ;)

When you used that term, "euro trash" thats what my mind immediately went to because thats what younger people call them.. these people are legendary. Yes, many of them are probably Russian, etc.

The term which I think is much more appropriate for them is the one the "old Russians" use, "New Russians".

"Euro Trash" to me means much more people like Edina and Patsy in the BBC series Absolutely Fabulous. Kind of dated but very descriptive of people who existed in large numbers back in the 90s.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on November 01, 2018, 06:11:19 am
You're thinking way too specifically, man! ;)

The people who call someone "eurotrash" simply for having lived in Europe for a few years are a) not the kind of people who know anything about Europe (or any place outside USA, for that matter, or even much within USA, really!), and b) don't actually care about any particular characteristics, they just use against you whatever you've got. It's just a handy xenophobic insult they can hurl at anyone who isn't a flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot". The same kind of people who, when we were kids, admonished me to "go back to Guallamalla" [sic].

My entire point was that the world-ignorant bigots in USA who used to be somewhat kept in check now feel emboldened to wear their bigotry with pride, and are taking that to ever-increasing violence, too.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 02:17:04 pm
I totally agree with you about racism and other forms of discrimination.


Since this thread was originally about housing, and the phenomenon of profit mad investors, and flippers and their ilk, making housing impossible for normal people to afford, and driving people out of their homes without even a by or leave, as Dave would say, its important to see how communities of all kinds are threatened by these changes. This is being done to disempower all communities. Its what Hannah Arendt calls 'atomisation' .

Housing is really important. Affordable housing is necessary for progressive communities to exist and that is under attack for reasons that go way beyond simple profit seeking.

Anyway, I wrote out a long post but decided not to post it, its not super relevant to this thread now, but let me just say we have to be pro active and fight for new housing to be created especially for creative people and non-commercial activity.

Which is being targeted. Anything thats not for profit is under attack.

I also feel that we're being manipulated, people everywhere now are being manipulated in a coordinated way to cover up a huge theft that we would all agree is wrong.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NivagSwerdna on November 01, 2018, 03:08:36 pm
That' why I think she needs to make the move now, otherwise it's just kicking the can one year down the road.
IMHO Looking after your mental health is the #1 issue and so it's really good to see the GoFundMe being so successful and and the effect that it had on Fran's outlook.  From a dark place to a more optimistic one. 
It is a sad reality that suicide rates are depressingly high.
Moving away is hard and strains support networks... far better to 'rightsize' but stay as close to where you want to be as you can, the Northern Liberties sound cool.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on November 01, 2018, 05:13:44 pm
You're thinking way too specifically, man! ;)

The people who call someone "eurotrash" simply for having lived in Europe for a few years are a) not the kind of people who know anything about Europe (or any place outside USA, for that matter, or even much within USA, really!), and b) don't actually care about any particular characteristics, they just use against you whatever you've got. It's just a handy xenophobic insult they can hurl at anyone who isn't a flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot". The same kind of people who, when we were kids, admonished me to "go back to Guallamalla" [sic].

My entire point was that the world-ignorant bigots in USA who used to be somewhat kept in check now feel emboldened to wear their bigotry with pride, and are taking that to ever-increasing violence, too.

I don't see much difference between calling someone "flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot"" and
calling someone eurotrash

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on November 01, 2018, 07:17:22 pm
I don't see much difference between calling someone "flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot"" and
calling someone eurotrash
Stereotypes, langwadt, stereotypes. Just like single out christian religion when talking about bigotry (one reference here (https://www.npr.org/2018/06/16/620651574/faith-leaders-oppose-trumps-immigration-policy-of-separating-children-from-paren)).

Anecdotal evidence but, in my experience, people of all backgrounds that are open to listen to another opinion (actually listen and not pretend to) tend to be very reasonable. I happen to live in Texas and know *a lot* of "flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot"" that are absolutely reasonable about immigration/foreigners and care to listen to contrary opinions. And some of them are not from here, but also migrated from many other areas of the country and the world.

That' why I think she needs to make the move now, otherwise it's just kicking the can one year down the road.
IMHO Looking after your mental health is the #1 issue and so it's really good to see the GoFundMe being so successful and and the effect that it had on Fran's outlook.  From a dark place to a more optimistic one. 
It is a sad reality that suicide rates are depressingly high.
Moving away is hard and strains support networks... far better to 'rightsize' but stay as close to where you want to be as you can, the Northern Liberties sound cool.
Definitely. The mental stress of moving is very high, especially when you have a lot to do yourself.

At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 07:32:52 pm
rsjsouza, what do you mean, how much do you pay, and what do you mean by 'maintenance'?

Do you live in a place where they force you to pay for landscaping?

This reminds me of something..

Poor and working people 'who are given opportunities' to rent 'below market rate housing' in newly constructed  environments of all kinds in the US, rarely manage to hold on to these 'homes' for long.

(builders had or sometimes have agree to build in some low cost housing when they are displacing lots of non-wealthy people)

So suppose a displaced family, after waiting years on a waiting list, is given the opportunity to rent in their old neighborhood in SF, NYC, Philly or wherever, at way below market rate in one of these new buildings, maybe they build in a separate entrance for them in back.

Anyway, its been found that they rarely last long in these situations because various other costs and fees just add up to often make the situation totally unworkable for them, and they lose these supposedly affordable homes.  This is because those fees, unlike their rents, are not specifically supposed to be affordable.

A similar situation applies to health insurance where oftentimes, costs passed on in toto to supposedly insured people which are not covered materialize and those fees can be totally unexpected and astronomical.

For example, $70,000 unexpected fees arriving after a spine operation because a surgeons regular anesthesiologists canceled and rather than put off the operation they used an out of network one. This stuff, which is called 'drive by doctoring' happens all the time.

The message is, stay away from using your insurance if you are poor, or we'll make you pay a high price.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 07:52:22 pm
In my opinion, there is a lot of truth to the opinions expressed by poor people everywhere these days, including the working class people who many try to frame as 'rednecks' (an interesting term that in the distant past referred to trade unionists !) who say that the system has been turned into one that no longer represents them. I have rarely seen those people be bigots, more often than not they see more in common with other people in their economic condition and its not based on race.


 More often than not, these days the gatekeepers to access to the media fall over backwards to find some excuse, any excuse to trivialize and dismiss their staements or arguments, nomatter who they come from.

Around the world these excuses vary quite a bit but the aggressive way they are squelched and intelligent conversation prevented is common to all of them.

They try to fit them into a number of constructed frames which have been stripped of essential contextual information in order to hide the truth in them.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NivagSwerdna on November 01, 2018, 07:59:31 pm
Nivag Swerdna, what do you mean by 'maintenance'?
Did I say that?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on November 01, 2018, 08:04:43 pm
Nivag Swerdna, what do you mean by 'maintenance'?
Did I say that?
I think it was directed to me. I repeated myself while writing my post  :palm:

What I meant to say is:
"At any rate, owning a place also adds a lot of costs - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance."
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: station240 on November 01, 2018, 08:43:52 pm
It's not just property flippers Fran has had trouble with.
University asked her to help clear out a lab, after answering everyone questions about what things were and leaving, the students and staff promptly cleared everything out including most of what she put aside to collect.
No doubt it's all been listed for sale on ebay, by people who barely know what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_znnfw0tQFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_znnfw0tQFc)

Yes I hate ebay flippers too, if you have no clue what something is don't buy it to sell at a profit!
Not to mention all the stuff they bin as it's not 'worth' their time to sell it, or they think no one would want it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: thm_w on November 01, 2018, 10:02:59 pm
It's not just property flippers Fran has had trouble with.
University asked her to help clear out a lab, after answering everyone questions about what things were and leaving, the students and staff promptly cleared everything out including most of what she put aside to collect.
No doubt it's all been listed for sale on ebay, by people who barely know what it is.

If its a university then good chance its gone into electronics recycling/garbage, same as would be done at most companies. I wouldn't assume malicious intent yet.
If you take extra effort to sell it, profit goes to the company. So it means more work for you for zero benefit.

Lesson learned: don't put things aside to collect, take them at the time they are offered.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 10:12:19 pm
She probably had to get a friend with a car to help. Poof, equipment gone.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on November 01, 2018, 10:30:37 pm
This is crazy, she needs to GTFO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJPK-99gMw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJPK-99gMw)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 01, 2018, 10:59:32 pm
She needs to get out. She only has one life, one set of lungs.

She should *shed stuff and not acquire any new stuff*.


Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on November 02, 2018, 01:12:56 am
i think she can race the local youth on quads or motorcycles to make some money like in the fast and the furious according to my research about that city
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on November 02, 2018, 06:18:23 am
At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.

In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.

I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on November 02, 2018, 06:58:34 am
I see more money is being poured into the GoFundMe campaign.
If it gets any better hopefully she can buy a property.
Not including those who donated using Paypal.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 02, 2018, 05:54:53 pm
There are a lot of other factors that determine the value of property. One of them is the proximity to employment. The value of a place to live is determined by both the value to people of living near family and friends, as well as work. Weather, and cultural life and especially, the intangible but very important things like government and level of integrity or corruption matter a great deal. All the other stuff in the world matters little if a country is not safe too. There is a huge benefit to being in an environment where people trust one another because they are in fact, trustworthy. Property may be grossly overvalued if it is in a place where the people in charge are not in fact trustworthy, while people think they are.

There is also a phenomenon, similar to the not invented here phenomenon, or familiarity breeds contempt, which leads many people to tend to want to invest elsewhere, oftentimes its not necessarily because of common sense, its just based on perceptions which may be wrong.


At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.

In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.

I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on November 02, 2018, 06:12:41 pm
Recently in England many are trapped in what they call "Fleeceholds" sold under fancy names such as "Virtual Freeholds" which they are often misconstrued as "Virtually it is a freehold" nonsense and it has gotten so bad they recently banned new homes without including the land it is sold on. I read the investments firms the land is sold charge £108 for queries like to find out how much it is to buy the freehold, over £600 for a pet license and over £120 to put up picture or a blind on ground clauses and after consent for building works they want four figure sums if they went ahead.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: IanMacdonald on November 02, 2018, 06:28:22 pm
In Scotland,  leasehold is largely a thing of the past, with a previous government having ruled that leaseholder could buy-out their feu by putting down a sum which would return a given amount in interest.

Most blocks of flats here are jointly owned by the residents.  :-+

Of course you can still rent office space or the like, as a tenant.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on November 02, 2018, 09:08:35 pm
At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.

In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
Your commentary is sensible and, historically speaking, property ownership tends to have an ever increasing but very long term significant return on investment.

However, such skewed economy that turns property into pure investments (flippers, empty houses, etc.) increases the risk of such long term financial commitment and makes people pause before hedging their savings on this - mortgage and taxes can be an unsustainable part of the income of young people and families, not to mention gentrification (the subject du jour). This is specially true after entire families have been burned by the 2008 crisis, where financially independent younger generations are moving this down on their list priorities (a while ago I read this in a few references around). Another thing that contributes to this is the immense college debt.

With a heated economy, the allure of the financial market flips the equation towards having the down payment money invested in finance products and recovering their rental expenses through it - in other words, you build your equity not in a house but in cashflow. In the long run it tends to pay off or at least get close enough, but obviously this always depends on your own financial skills or advice.

As anecdotal evidence, twelve years ago a very financially savvy friend used to have three properties for rental in two states and was considering adding a one more to his portfolio. Fast forward to today, all his money is on the finance market. Another friend living in California went upside down on his house and ten years later he has yet to recover from that loss.

In another country and era (2002), I paid for my apartment in full with my savings and lived on it for a few years. Economy tanked, my job moved to another the country and I got almost no return in selling it (strenuous consequences, but still a fact of life). My parents have about four properties (apart from their own) and the return is about 0.5~1% a year when comparing to the total value of the properties - that on a country with an economy that pays 6~7%/yr interest in a conservative investment.

To me this is quite similar to the folks that challenge the cost of higher education: with the amount of money saved, one could potentially invest it now and gain in the long run, but that takes discipline and skills. Not everybody will be successful. 

All that said, I still own a house and bleed every year we make a comparison with rental - financially it is a disaster, but there are many other practical/psychological factors involved, especially when you have kids.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 02, 2018, 09:20:53 pm
Was that before or after January 1, 1995?

In Scotland,  leasehold is largely a thing of the past, with a previous government having ruled that leaseholder could buy-out their feu by putting down a sum which would return a given amount in interest.

Most blocks of flats here are jointly owned by the residents.  :-+

Of course you can still rent office space or the like, as a tenant.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on November 02, 2018, 09:55:38 pm
All that said, I still own a house and bleed every year we make a comparison with rental - financially it is a disaster, but there are many other practical/psychological factors involved, especially when you have kids.

Would it still be a disaster though if you look 10, 20 or even 30 years into the future? I don't know how old you are, but let's say you decide to retire and downsize, move into a rented apartment or assisted living home. If you own your house, in the case of most people it would be paid off by then and will have appreciated substantially. I know people sometimes get underwater with houses but I've never met someone who has owned the same house for 20+ years and is still underwater. Anyway if you own, you have a valuable asset you can sell or rent out to someone else, whereas if you had rented all that time you'd have nothing. Someone else would have that valuable asset you helped pay for.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 02, 2018, 11:47:09 pm
No investment is risk free.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on November 03, 2018, 06:25:38 pm
No but some are much safer than others, and if you never take any risk at all you will never have any reward either. If you make investments, there is a risk you will lose. If you don't invest in anything, you *will* lose.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 03, 2018, 07:18:24 pm
Have you seen the figures on student debt?
The level of student debt is insane.

At least one's house is something you can use. This is why real estate is called real.

But, good luck making enough money, the jobs and housing situation for young people is really horrible.
It was bad when I was their age but its ten times worse now.

So the advice to people to 'invest' seems *sigh* like a cop out. 

Many Americans don't even have the money to buy basics, let alone invest.

A huge chunk of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
They are working two or more jobs and just barely keeping a roof over their heads.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on November 03, 2018, 07:29:45 pm
I'm young and I have a house, 3 cars, 2 kids a motorcycle. You know what I did with my student debt? I paid it off and didn't get a degree in gender studies. Young people have problems but a lot of them are THEIR problems. Not the worlds. I don't know why you keep leaving 3 messages for every single 1 but it's pretty excessive.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on November 03, 2018, 07:37:14 pm
Many Americans don't even have the money to buy basics, let alone invest.

A huge chunk of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
They are working two or more jobs and just barely keeping a roof over their heads.

I saw a documentary a couple of months ago and I cannot remember the name of it but they showed people in California living in caravans and lorries all parked up on the roads in some areas because the landlords raised the rent so much and some of them had respectful jobs. One of them lived in a car and worked for Google.
A place was opened for them to go toilet, wash and shower.

They said they find that they are able to save something that way even though it still won't be enough to afford a house there but it is better than loosing all the money to the  landlords or blood sucking vampires.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on November 03, 2018, 09:19:53 pm
I'm not saying there aren't problems, or that wage inequality is not an issue, or that living in some areas is even viable for most people, but that doesn't change the fact that for virtually anywhere, renting is much more expensive in the long run and property is generally speaking a very sound, conservative investment. When looking at time periods in the 20-30 year range I think one would be hard pressed to find an instance where property value had not increased.

A long time ago I set a goal for myself to buy a house by the time I was 25 and I just barely squeaked by and accomplished that. Things were very tight for a while, I borrowed $5k from my mom which was the most she could afford to loan me, I packed a lunch every day instead of eating in the cafeteria at work for a couple years. I had to get one of those scary adjustable rate mortgages and a separate equity loan and after signing the papers I had a whole $52 left to my name. I immediately rented out a room to somebody and had at least one roommate for the first 7 years I was in the place. As soon as I could afford it I started paying extra principal each month and when interest rates bottomed out I refinanced to a 15 year mortgage which again was cutting things a bit close. I've never bought a new car, I rarely eat out, instead of buying things like a new TV I've always gotten broken ones for free and fixed them myself. For about 10 years I didn't have much extra money but now things are starting to change. The amount I still owe is less than $100k which is a nice psychologically pleasing threshold. My house is worth well over twice what I paid for it, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I'll be paid off and own my home free and clear by my mid 40s. That is something I greatly look forward to, it will be a big weight off my shoulders and I cannot imagine the feeling of gloom I would have knowing that instead of relief I could look forward to a lifetime of paying more and more money into something that would never be mine. Even if my salary never increases beyond what I make today, I'll be doing just fine. Without a mortgage to pay each month I could even get by on minimum wage if I had to.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on November 03, 2018, 10:01:50 pm
In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.

Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?

I think it might have something to do with the landlord or building company.

It is not like Fran insulted some some religion of have extremist views and I see nothing political in the videos.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 03, 2018, 10:27:09 pm
Her landlord probably has retained a slumlord lawyer to harass her, which might at this stage be things like demands for inspections or demands for various work-peoples access or notifications that the power or water or heat will be off.

If, 'having been given legal notice' she doesn't do whatever the law requires her to let them do then they would claim grounds for a lawsuit against her.

 


Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on November 03, 2018, 10:57:51 pm
All that said, I still own a house and bleed every year we make a comparison with rental - financially it is a disaster, but there are many other practical/psychological factors involved, especially when you have kids.

Would it still be a disaster though if you look 10, 20 or even 30 years into the future?
It could go either way. My crystal ball is out for repairs.

What I can say is that, some of the expenses required for infrastructure work in my house in the past few years will never be recovered. A lot can be said about how houses are cheaply built with damn wood that rots away after a few decades (give me a brick and mortar house any day), the terrible Dallas soil that obliterates any slab foundation after 15~20 years, the EPA merry-go-round that outlaws refrigerant gases every two decades or so (and air conditioning unit repairs become more and more expensive), the neighbourhoods that suffer natural disasters or become surrounded by rundown places which contribute to your own property, and so on.

As I said before, I know people that went underwater and ten years later are still in the very long path to recover. Others that have moved away from this. You can build your equity in many ways along your life.

My biggest criticism is to not take at face value the belief that you will ALWAYS be better if you buy a house.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on November 03, 2018, 11:23:12 pm
My biggest criticism is to not take at face value the belief that you will ALWAYS be better if you buy a house.
Buying a house is always about location location location location.

I see a lot of similarities between james_s' story and my own situation (except for the room mate  ^-^ ). When bought at the right price and in the right location a good quality house is a good pension fund. My home isn't particulary expensive or special but it sits in (what turns out) an excellent location. Whenever a house in the street is for sale it is sold within a couple of weeks. Even during the worst part of the 'credit crunch'.

In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.

Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?
Paranoia maybe. But then again she is kind of a public figure and that usually attracts all kind of crazy people. Over a decade ago I co-owned a company directory website and you really don't want to know how bat-sh*t crazy some people are.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on November 03, 2018, 11:45:02 pm
At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.

The most important thing about owning a property is that you become your own bank.
All your repayments go into an offset/redraw account and you can without that money at any time for any purpose at all, and at low housing interest rates, no bank approval needed.
For example, I bought my current lab with cash from our home loan. The same interest rate to buy commercial property on a separate commercial loan would have been about double. In effect I loaned my myself the money.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on November 04, 2018, 12:05:53 am
At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.

The most important thing about owning a property is that you become your own bank.
All your repayments go into an offset/redraw account and you can without that money at any time for any purpose at all, and at low housing interest rates, no bank approval needed.
For example, I bought my current lab with cash from our home loan. The same interest rate to buy commercial property on a separate commercial loan would have been about double. I in effect loaned my myself the money.

and house prices tend to follow each other, so when you own and want to move any increase/decrease of prices will affect the house you are selling in the same way as the one you are buying
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on November 04, 2018, 02:25:32 am
In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.
Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?

She pulled the video?
I didn't get to see it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on November 04, 2018, 02:29:20 am
I see a lot of similarities between james_s' story and my own situation (except for the room mate  ^-^ ). When bought at the right price and in the right location a good quality house is a good pension fund.

Actually your house is an asset that produces zero income, and that doesn't help you at all in retirement unless you sell it and "down size" and pocket the difference in cash. In that respect it's often described as "dead money" although not in the same way as rent is.
The house in theory will go up in value with time though, so it's better than having the equivalent of cash in the bank or a share portfolio, but it's not like compounded interest.

Best way to think of a house is as a bank account indexed to inflation.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on November 04, 2018, 02:30:59 am
Maybe we should try to find out the company/companies not being nice and let the crowd send them a flood of complaints by phone and email. Even if it doesn't stop them, costing them resources sounds like a way to get back at them. Maybe they'll even get some bad press.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on November 04, 2018, 10:32:57 am
In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.
Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?

She pulled the video?
I didn't get to see it.

Yes it is gone like it was never there.
This is the link from history (just called Youtube in history) but it was the last video that I saw last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBH8nUoSj-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBH8nUoSj-4#t=0m00s)

I left a comment which read something like:
"Wise. You might get something nasty off the landlord or building company".

Can't find any mirror copies elsewhere.

Just now I have incidentally found a blurred video thumbnail of the video Fran pulled down when I opened another copy of Chrome in the tiles page.
Looking at the picture and I think it was called "New Rules for Viewer Mail"

On searching there is keyword link to a Youtube clone website abcTube.org but the video is no longer there or in cache but the description:

Quote
Quote
"Sorry kids - You'll have to let me know what you're sending in for Viewer Mail in advance, and any ..."
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 04, 2018, 12:22:40 pm
The lawyers who work for some developers are experts at terrifying people. bad developers are often real monsters. I don't know if that applies in this situation but having met many (other) would be developers and heard them laugh about what they do, and how they wont give people a moment of rest, I could easily imagine why she might have good reasons to be nervous.

Under that scenario, it could be a really really stressful situation for her.

I have met many of these would be princelings and princesses socially.

People have to understand, in the US, there is NO 'right to counsel' in civil cases, and winners often get to sue the losers 'for their legal costs' as well.

By not spending the hundreds of dollars an hour for a lawyer, somebody in a civil case where the law is stacked in favor of building owners, (giving them the benefit of the doubt in cases where they are "trying to improve their property") is certain to make some procedural mistake which loses their case.

The paralysis poor people exhibit when faced with this existential threat is for a good reason, they are statistically very likely to lose, even if they are still naive and unaware of the typical non-existence of any comprehensive system that in other countries always exists to protect them, something that often they don't grasp for some time, going around to various agencies and looking for help that is not there. This hunt for help and frustration wastes precious time and the inaction as the system sees it, plus the fatigue courthouse workers often overwhelmed cant help but feel at the endless stream of self-represented poor people who don't understand how the courts work, stacks the cards against them.

Fighting back for ones rights such as they may be, is only a rich persons game and rich people know that.

If they are that kind of developer, whatever she does now, they might try to work it into some attack on her.

Here, rich people, the ones with the lawyers, are always 'right'.

The statistics show that its a housing bloodbath out there right now for poor people, with evictions higher now than they have ever been before.

In this atmosphere, the sheer numbers of people who need help long ago began to cause a breakdown in all the structures that are supposed to protect them, and attorneys focus on 'triage' for the most unambiguous easiest cases, and try mostly to exact concessions from developers like more time for the soon-to-be dispossessed.

The kinds of services available illustrates how poor peoples lives are being destroyed, families broken up, in a systematic manner.

Compared to many others, Fran is actually a person whom one can see might actually be in physical danger outside of a city.

Its likely a visceral burden she's carried for a long time.

I doubt if she is in so much of a fighting mood - because of all her stuff that she feels is a part of her identity as a YouTuber.

But the stuff, and the urgent need she has for help getting a decent buyout,  may be making it harder in terms of her ability to fight for what should be her right to compensation.

There will be more stuff in her future if she finds another place. Tons more old hardware is likely to become available as space becomes harder and harder to find. People will be giving it away.

She needs to put that stuff out of her mind and find a place to live. And be flexible as far as her next home, maybe it will just be a slightly larger apartment than the one she might get otherwise.


It seems to me to be almost impossible for a stressed person facing eviction, a non-attorney - to successfully make arguments for a settlement on behalf of themselves.

Slumlord and developer lawyers are very very slick and they have hundreds of ways they force people out of their homes and into the streets. Nomatter how smart or street-savvy a person may be, they are very very unlikely to win without a lawyer.

Its only when somebody is represented by counsel in the US that they are likely to get justice and almost no actual urban poor people are eligible for free help either.

People who have any kind of income are falling through the cracks in large numbers.

Once you have any income at all you are deemed capable of playing the game. Which is just a ludicrous proposition given its costs.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 04, 2018, 02:16:57 pm
No, that would likely not help at all.   This is not the YouTube or the Internet.

The thing that she needs is a kick ass attorney who is on her side and affordable.

And especially, a place to live. A place to call home.

Maybe we should try to find out the company/companies not being nice and let the crowd send them a flood of complaints by phone and email. Even if it doesn't stop them, costing them resources sounds like a way to get back at them. Maybe they'll even get some bad press.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on November 08, 2018, 01:44:05 am
Fran replied to someone in her new video "New Camera" about the video that was pulled down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qzxT19Zpaw&lc=Ugx1otEvQswPzjzxn5J4AaABAg.8nMqpvw3hVO8nMwPkUjMfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qzxT19Zpaw&lc=Ugx1otEvQswPzjzxn5J4AaABAg.8nMqpvw3hVO8nMwPkUjMfk)

Quote from: Fran Blanche in video comment "New Camera"
Quote
I originally put up a video saying I'd do that but the comments were quite vitriolic, so I took that down and had to rethink the idea of viewer mail altogether.

vitriolic
filled with bitter criticism or malice

I wonder:
Were some of the mailbag viewers unhappy that they have to confirm what they send in.
Did the haters behave like that after watching because they had their plot spoiled by the requirement.
I wasn't around to see it any of that.

It sounds like she recently had some hate mail.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on November 30, 2018, 10:27:53 pm
A number of US cities have set up programs to stem the flood of evictions of unrepresented tenants by runaway gentrification.

Hiring an attorney in the United States is often beyond the means of poor as well as middle income tenants who fall through the cracks of a legal system that has no concept of a civil right to counsel like most other developed countries do.

This has led to an open season on tenants who live in areas where rents have been rising. ('Churning')

Philadelphia has recently been looking at providing help to the poorest tenants.

http://philadelphiabar.org/page/NewsItem?appNum=2&newsItemID=1001829 (http://philadelphiabar.org/page/NewsItem?appNum=2&newsItemID=1001829)

"if the City were to invest just $3.5 million annually to provide counsel for all low-income tenants facing eviction, it would receive a return of $45.2 million annually."

"only 7 percent of Philadelphia tenants are represented, compared to 80 percent of landlords"

"represented tenants are only displaced 5 percent of the time, compared to 78 percent of pro se (self-represented, i.e. lawyer-less) tenants."

For coverage of the report see:

Philadelphia Tribune

http://www.phillytrib.com/news/legal-aid-beneficial-to-tenants-study-says/article_e128fb37-0114-54fc-8cd5-8b65f3989634.html (http://www.phillytrib.com/news/legal-aid-beneficial-to-tenants-study-says/article_e128fb37-0114-54fc-8cd5-8b65f3989634.html)

WHYY 

https://whyy.org/articles/study-philly-tenants-facing-eviction-too-often-lack-legal-representation/ (https://whyy.org/articles/study-philly-tenants-facing-eviction-too-often-lack-legal-representation/)

Philadelphia Weekly

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news/new-report-claims-city-could-save-millions-by-providing-lawyers/article_98e5bfca-e734-11e8-bb05-9f515a683ebc.html (http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news/new-report-claims-city-could-save-millions-by-providing-lawyers/article_98e5bfca-e734-11e8-bb05-9f515a683ebc.html)

PlanPhilly

http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/11/13/study-spending-now-on-legal-aid-for-renters-would-save-city-down-the-road (http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/11/13/study-spending-now-on-legal-aid-for-renters-would-save-city-down-the-road)

Next City

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/what-philadephia-could-gain-from-expanding-legal-aid-for-tenants (https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/what-philadephia-could-gain-from-expanding-legal-aid-for-tenants)   


-----

It should be said though that everybody should be able to get help, not just the very poor. People whose income is more than the poverty line don't suddenly become able to afford $300 or more an hour fees.

-----
New York City’s first year of right to counsel kept 84% of tenants in homes

The New York City Office of Civil Justice has released its 2018 report

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/hra/downloads/pdf/services/civiljustice/OCJ-UA-2018-Report.pdf (https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/hra/downloads/pdf/services/civiljustice/OCJ-UA-2018-Report.pdf) 

84 percent of all tenants who were provided an attorney in Housing Court remained in their homes (21,955 New Yorkers representing 7,847 households). It is especially notable that the 84 percent figure exceeds the 77 percent figure estimated by the NYC Independent Budget Office. Moreover, 97 percent of those receiving legal services for NYCHA administrative termination of tenancy were able to remain in their homes. These results demonstrate the incredible effectiveness of a right to counsel in preserving housing stability.  In considering the reasons for that effectiveness, it is meaningful that nearly three-quarters of those receiving legal assistance for Housing Court obtained full representation.

Evictions conducted by (NYC) City Marshalls have dropped by 27 percent overall since 2013, and have declined steadily in all but one year since then;

30 percent of all tenants are now represented by an attorney

The right to counsel is reaching those most in need: the largest represented group was those making less than 50 percent of the federal poverty level, and half of the legal services recipients were receiving public benefits.

The 2018 report's release was covered by WNYC

https://www.wnyc.org/story/more-tenants-lawyers-city-says-evictions-are-dropping/ (https://www.wnyc.org/story/more-tenants-lawyers-city-says-evictions-are-dropping/)

and

The Real Deal
https://therealdeal.com/2018/11/14/why-eviction-rates-are-dropping-in-nyc/ (https://therealdeal.com/2018/11/14/why-eviction-rates-are-dropping-in-nyc/)

Media coverage of similar programs elsewhere.
 

The Arizona Daily Star

https://tucson.com/news/local/more-affordable-housing-right-to-legal-counsel-could-ease-tucson/article_29beed58-e769-11e8-8312-23aee3ac4e68.html (https://tucson.com/news/local/more-affordable-housing-right-to-legal-counsel-could-ease-tucson/article_29beed58-e769-11e8-8312-23aee3ac4e68.html)

 looks at a number of different ways in which the eviction crisis in Tucson could be addressed, including the right to counsel.

The Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-tenant-advocates-launch-program-that-aims-to-help-renters-on-the-verge-of-eviction/500542492/ (http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-tenant-advocates-launch-program-that-aims-to-help-renters-on-the-verge-of-eviction/500542492/)

 covers the recent expansion of housing representation, and highlights the great work of Mid-Minnesota Legal Aid in Hennepin County (where a pilot has been running for a while).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These links are from http://civilrighttocounsel.org/ (http://civilrighttocounsel.org/)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 08, 2018, 12:09:40 am
Insane!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRQ9wyZXJ2k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRQ9wyZXJ2k)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on December 08, 2018, 12:22:15 am
Well even if you own a home the neighbours can start doing noisy construction work as well at 8 in the morning. Why hasn't Fran started packing yet???
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 08, 2018, 12:35:02 am
Why hasn't Fran started packing yet???

She has been. She has set up a storage facility with custom racks.
The problem is she hasn't found another place. I'm sure if she did have a place all her stuff would be packed and gone within days.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 08, 2018, 12:54:02 am
Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.

Additionally,  the building used to be a brake shoe company, so has anybody tested the air for asbestos fibers? If they are present, they need to stop stirring up the dust and set up negative air pressure blowing outward so it doesnt get blown into her space.

Also, are the workpeople doing that work, qualified to do asbestos remediation? Are they wearing appropriate personal protective equipment?

City inspectors need to know this kind of info.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 08, 2018, 12:56:45 am
Not if they have asbestos there. If they do they need to follow special procedures such as hosing down the areas they are demolishing to reduce dust and disposing of the debris carefully so that it doesn't cause cancer for people. .

Well even if you own a home the neighbours can start doing noisy construction work as well at 8 in the morning. Why hasn't Fran started packing yet???
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 08, 2018, 03:09:18 am
Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.

These companies (and the law) don't care about what you deserve. Her lease is until July.

If it was me, almost everything would go straight to storage, and I'd find the cheapest medium term AirBnB (or equivalent) I could find and modify my content and business as required until a longer term solution can be found.
One of the problems is she's holding out for a longer term solution.

A list of co-working spaces in Philly:
Mostly not suitable, but some may be.

https://phillyviews.com/coworking-space-philadelphia/
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 08, 2018, 03:20:26 am
Right, exactly.

If they collect rent or have a contract to rent, there is an implied warantee of habitability during that period.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/implied_warranty_of_habitability (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/implied_warranty_of_habitability)

All US states except Arkansas have similar laws.

However, it seems as if the state's lack of a law could be challenged as if a business collects people's money they are expected to provide what people pay them for, a habitable space.

Not collect free money.

For a PA. example, see https://theincline.com/2018/01/05/the-renters-guide-to-surviving-pittsburgh-winters-frigid-apartments-and-frozen-pipes/ (https://theincline.com/2018/01/05/the-renters-guide-to-surviving-pittsburgh-winters-frigid-apartments-and-frozen-pipes/) about another Pennsylvania city, Pittsburgh.

Contrast Arkansas with California

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Apartment-Ceiling-Collapses-in-Logan-Heights-After-Water-Damage-490299071.html (https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Apartment-Ceiling-Collapses-in-Logan-Heights-After-Water-Damage-490299071.html)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on December 08, 2018, 11:48:05 am
Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.
These companies (and the law) don't care about what you deserve. Her lease is until July.
True. And there is probably something in the leasing terms about allowing construction work on the property. Better to get out ASAP and be done with it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on December 08, 2018, 12:04:27 pm
Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.
It's USA… such sensible concepts are generally not recognized by law. The "implied habitability" you mention is so pro-landlord that it usually doesn't cover quality of life in any meaningful way. :( (Or if they do, it's only for dwellings, not commercial properties.)

(Even here in Switzerland, where tenant protections are much stronger — while still being fair to landlords, I might add — you can't complain about construction being done in adjacent units, provided the work is done outside of the statutory "quiet hours" of nighttime and lunch.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 08, 2018, 03:55:06 pm
I agree, she does need to get out because of her health.

But - really, what may be happening may have a lot of ominous overtones.

In one of her videos she shows where something white and fluffy and fibrous that looks like asbestos was just painted over previously.

She explained the fact that the building used to be a company that manufactured brake shoes .

If its got an addressable asbestos issue, its not rocket science, it just means that any demolition work should be done with the proper precautions, by people qualified to do it, after the building is vacant.

If there is asbestos in the building, what they may be doing, given that she still has a lease, could be seen as more akin to a deliberate attack on her life and health, not 'just' a condition incidental to 'the work'. If there is danger, also a failure to inform everybody appropriate of the issue may also endanger others, such as the workpeople, -

Its really evil if a hazard exists and they are not made aware of this potential hazard.

If the building indeed used to make brake shoes, those owners likely bought the building at a discount because of this history. So doing a proper cleanup would likely come with the territory. No cleanup, no future healthy building. They could likely get grants which go to such things, especially if they are in economically distressed areas.

In Hackensack, NJ, a picturesque old industrial building was bought and fixed up by an artist collective. It turned out to have previously been a factory that made mercury sunlamps and the building was heavily contaminated to the point of having pools of liquid mercury collect in voids inside the buildings walls. Inhabitants were beginning to show symptoms of mercury intoxication. It was condemned as unsafe and after a lengthy and expensive cleanup process was put on the market as a bunch of million dollar condos.

The distinction between dwellings and commercial property likely doesn't extend a permission to expose tenants of any kind to unhealthy or carcinogenic materials in any situation.

Yes, I think Fran should get on top of moving her stuff out, ASAP, even if she has no place to go, she has to do her best to minimize the damage to her future health.
 
If she cannot clean her stuff (she shouldn't because it will take up precious time) she should just bag it all up, put it in trash bags double bag it and mark it with red tape, for future cleaning, and then get out of there.

The disposable N-95 or P95 mask (if that is what it is) she is wearing is likely not good enough for this situation, she needs a P-100 HEPA filter (magenta colored)  I use a pro-quality half-face North respirator for even the most mundane dusty tasks. The filters though are not as cheap as I would prefer but it gets the job done. She could also use it with pancake filters which are a lot cheaper but I don't think quite as good.

She should wear disposable PPE clothing over her regular clothes and throw them out at the end of the day. Or she is going to have that stuff in her clothes.

She has to put her own health first. And get out of there.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on December 09, 2018, 05:54:02 pm
lol fuck them, you can spill a bag of asbestos fibers into a vent and fucking cost everyone major money. all that time sensitive investment bullshit some fucking  v is worrying about can be easily dwarfed by abatment contractors and permits.

that kind of thing does not happen unless someone has some insane time sensitive financial theory. It;s probably small too. it's probobly some cracked out bullshit about the 'post holiday season xxre==k' or something. I swear. If a board of investors had to listen to why this is occurring, they would fall asleep. some insane amount of planning probobly went into crunching a few percent off the price at everyone elses expense. that should be turned around.

imo the action of those workers constitutes as chemical and psychological warfare.


also all the shit applying to residential etc does not apply to some shitty factory thats been converted into a living space. You have different transmittance of forces/noises/dust in such a environment then residential. If my neighbors did heavy work it would be much more tolerable then some giant ass wall designed in 1930 being pounded on the other side. their wormy fucks and they def know it being in the trades.  those cunts know how it will sound and feel on the other side cuz they worked in that kinda shit before. the roof structure is also different and it is less tolerable/isolating of work most likely.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 09, 2018, 06:39:15 pm
Subcontractors often hire work-people by the day for jobs like that- to do the actual work -

They are just people who are trying to feed their families.

They are likely not trying to be noisy, they likely were hired for the day or a few days off the side of the street, given a sledgehammer or a crowbar and told 'demolish this'.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on December 09, 2018, 06:54:42 pm
someones paying them and making a work schedule though
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on December 10, 2018, 06:41:15 am
I can see why it is going to be troublesome moving out.

In her later videos I see there is a lot more in the lab and the heavy machinery.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 10, 2018, 08:27:18 pm
Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on December 10, 2018, 09:52:24 pm
You can say that again. A couple of years ago a friend sold for the price of a fancy coffee a Tek 7000 mainframe with two plugins simply due to the sheer lack of space (it wasn't anything out of this world in specs, though). Unfortunately I was in a very special situation and could not take it. :(
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 10, 2018, 11:24:17 pm
Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.

Also the huge hassle in trying to sell it. Logistics sucks for big heavy items.
It's even too much hassle for people to come pick it up for free.
I'm starting to toss out stuff that I hate to do, but I know it's just too much hassle otherwise.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on December 11, 2018, 07:51:39 am
Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
We tend to look at gear and dream about it. The reality is that the real estate gear occupies quickly becomes more expensive than the gear itself, especially the more sizeable stuff. Square meters are expensive.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on December 11, 2018, 02:23:09 pm
Also the huge hassle in trying to sell it. Logistics sucks for big heavy items.
It's even too much hassle for people to come pick it up for free.
I'm starting to toss out stuff that I hate to do, but I know it's just too much hassle otherwise.

That is why dumpster rooms exist. Your junk, someone else's treasure.  :P
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 11, 2018, 10:56:52 pm
Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
We tend to look at gear and dream about it. The reality is that the real estate gear occupies quickly becomes more expensive than the gear itself, especially the more sizeable stuff. Square meters are expensive.

Lab office space in my business park is $300-$400 sqm
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on December 11, 2018, 11:18:30 pm
Just seen a picture of her lab factory on Patreon.
It looks much more than lab like a factory setting all nicely arranged in the middle but a bit cramped

She disabled comments on her last video.
The situation is becoming worse and she is pleading for more help.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 11, 2018, 11:45:31 pm
She disabled comments on her last video.
The situation is becoming worse and she is pleading for more help.

That's because it's not a normal video, it's just a promotional video to be viewed on Patreon.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 12, 2018, 12:00:41 am
Is that per year or - gasp - per month?

Lab office space in my business park is $300-$400 sqm
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 12, 2018, 12:04:46 am
Is that per year or - gasp - per month?
Lab office space in my business park is $300-$400 sqm

Oops, per year. I pay about $30k a year (not including outgoings, which is also largely based on sqm) for my 100sqm lab.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 12, 2018, 12:42:07 am
Fran could use some of that equipment to help set up a hacker space/nonprofit and perhaps get some community or redevelopment grants to do it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on December 22, 2018, 12:08:12 am
She got a new space!  :-+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB6_IonNvhI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB6_IonNvhI)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on December 22, 2018, 04:38:09 pm
This is really good news.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on December 22, 2018, 04:43:08 pm
It is going to be a good Christmas.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 24, 2019, 05:54:14 pm
I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.

I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.

What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 24, 2019, 08:52:56 pm
I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.

I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.

What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 25, 2019, 03:17:00 am
I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.

I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.

What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.

I know she doesn't own it. So even though she paid her lease they can still kick her out before the lease with some notice of course or take legal action to delay it which I can see may cost a lot.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: technix on January 25, 2019, 06:50:11 am
I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.

I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.

What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.

The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 25, 2019, 08:42:16 am
they can still kick her out before the lease with some notice of course or take legal action to delay it which I can see may cost a lot.

And that's the trick. They don't care and they know she doesn't have the money to fight it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 25, 2019, 10:47:38 am
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.

The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on January 25, 2019, 01:24:27 pm
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.
This is a complex subject and laws vary by state and by city.  There are very great differences between jurisdictions.

I do not know of any jurisdiction which obligates the tenant to fulfill the term of a lease and yet allows the landlord to evict the tenant before the lease is up. I do not believe such thing exists and if there was even such law on the books I do not believe it would be upheld by the courts.

Something does not add up in the picture being presented which I find low on facts and charged with much emotion.

I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on January 25, 2019, 01:34:10 pm
I tend to agree that we are not privy to all the facts in this conundrum, especially the contract terms (conditions for a commercial zone, applicability of penalties and determination of culpability, etc.), thus the discussion will forcefully be lead by emotions and guesswork.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 25, 2019, 02:56:42 pm
All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own.   If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me.  Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff. 

Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord.   Still need a form of down payment and steady income though.  Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 25, 2019, 03:00:01 pm
All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own.   If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me.  Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff. 

Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord.   Still need a form of down payment and steady income though.  Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
The problem with that often is that everything becomes much more of a pain and that finding suppliers can be painful. People concentrate in cities for good reasons, even if that means space becomes woefully expensive.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: JoeO on January 25, 2019, 04:37:09 pm
All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own.   If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me.  Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff. 

Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord.   Still need a form of down payment and steady income though.  Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
You are right Mr Squirrel.  It is typical for a building owner to lease a building to someone to start a retail business, let's say selling ice cream.  If it is successful, the lease will not be renewed and the owner then starts his own ice cream business in the same location.  It is best to own your building if you want to operate a business.

AFAIK, Fran can live anywhere.  Housing is cheap in upstate NY but you don't have all the "culture" or "entertainment" available to you that is in NYC or Philly.

Louis Rossmann in NYC has a thriving business, some of which is walk-in traffic.  But Jessa Jones, who does similar work at iPad Rehab is in upstate NY, Honeoye Falls, NY (Population 2,674).  Most of her business has to be mail in.     

Good luck to Fran.  I hope things work out for her.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Richard Crowley on January 25, 2019, 04:52:44 pm
The problem with that often is that everything becomes much more of a pain and that finding suppliers can be painful. People concentrate in cities for good reasons, even if that means space becomes woefully expensive.
So what's so special about Philly (or NYC, or Silicon Valley, for that matter)?
At least as far as "local suppliers" in the electronics game, there isn't really anywhere in the US (or perhaps any other country except possibly China)  Detroit is an example of the failure of concentrating in cities.  That was a phenomenon of a previous century, at least for supply lines.  Today we have the world-wide internet and global deliver services.

Although the number and size of mega-cities continues to grow in the 21st century.  But it doesn't seem to have any relationship to supply lines.  And the next pandemic will be devastating in mega-cities.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on January 25, 2019, 04:53:44 pm
I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
A transgender person.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on January 25, 2019, 07:08:52 pm
I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.

I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.

What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.

The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
I suppose you mean a type of credit reporting agency? (In USA, the term “credit union” is already taken, and means a type of community-owned bank.)

And yes, it sounds like a great idea!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on January 25, 2019, 07:11:13 pm
I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
Broken?! That’s kind of an extreme opinion...

Meanwhile, she actually has a certain following specifically because of her voice, which they find calming.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on January 25, 2019, 07:15:15 pm
I have a co-worker who is a healthy man in his 30s but has voice of a 90 years old person. So that happens.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 25, 2019, 10:04:20 pm
It reminds me of Eevblog video but I can't remember what it was called.
It was about saving your money for when you're out of a job and Dave called it "screw you money."

In this case it seems the opposite.
The landlord makes profit out of the residents and screws them over by shortening their duration and using other various means with their own money from the leases. Any legal resistance will be met with more screw you money that the landlord throws at the lawyers to screw over the residents further.

Just an idea.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on January 25, 2019, 11:14:52 pm
If the average rent for an area is going up really fast, say 15% a year, and because lets say almost nobody's income is rising that fast, lets say that as a sort of act of desperation, a law gets passed by a municipality saying that no matter what rental agreements or leases say, people who rent for a month or longer are protected from arbitrary evictions and rent increases larger than the CPI, lets say that is 3.5% a year, for as long as they stay in an apartment, as long as they are a good tenant and pay rent on time and don't break laws.

However in a few years the going rate may be twice or more what long term tenants are paying.

What happens then? What is the solution?  This is a real problem.

------




Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 25, 2019, 11:26:01 pm
She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public but the whatnot's? have yet to see the real "snowflakes" in her building in the form of dust or unless they themselves don't care about working in it and I thought builders were wearing protection from the dust and noise but it sounds in her videos like they're not.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 26, 2019, 12:31:18 am
So what's so special about Philly (or NYC, or Silicon Valley, for that matter)?
At least as far as "local suppliers" in the electronics game, there isn't really anywhere in the US (or perhaps any other country except possibly China)  Detroit is an example of the failure of concentrating in cities.  That was a phenomenon of a previous century, at least for supply lines.  Today we have the world-wide internet and global deliver services.

Although the number and size of mega-cities continues to grow in the 21st century.  But it doesn't seem to have any relationship to supply lines.  And the next pandemic will be devastating in mega-cities.
Maybe electronics is one of the more favourable fields, but that's not the only field of interest. I've worked out in the boondocks and getting things done is a hassle. Simple things can become a chore and tight planning becomes much more vital while still occasionally blowing up in your face. The advantage of a place like Silicon Valley is that everything and anything you could need is readily available. It's like a chemical reaction where all the required parts are readily available. It'll bang instead of fizz.

This does come at a price, so you'll have to see whether that makes sense to you.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 26, 2019, 12:50:51 am
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.

The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.

The problem is the ease enforcing those rights. Fran might very well have every legal right to stay and not have them demolish around her, but when I big company doesn't care and starts to do it, how easy is ti to enforce your right?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 26, 2019, 12:52:25 am
Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord.

She doesn't want to leave Philly for various reasons.
Yes, she could buy a house on her own land in a small town with the crowd funding money, but that's not what she wants to do.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 26, 2019, 12:55:09 am
So what's so special about Philly (or NYC, or Silicon Valley, for that matter)?

Party because it's a trans friendly city.
But a big city being a big city with it's extremes everywhere, you might be able to argue that a small town could be potentially safer.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on January 26, 2019, 01:00:38 am
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.

The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.

The problem is the ease enforcing those rights. Fran might very well have every legal right to stay and not have them demolish around her, but when I big company doesn't care and starts to do it, how easy is ti to enforce your right?

Exactly. The problem is, almost anybody who has the money to live in a major US city has too much money to get low cost help, and there lies the problem.
The rising rents have made it seem desirable to bad landlords to keep tenants moving in and out every few years. This subset of apartment building owning folk sometimes express feelings to the effect that they are missing out on huge profits by having long term tenants stay and pay rent on time for more than three or four years in the same apartment. They are the exception rather than the rule and many of them are new owners, but ... arrgh.. 

Sometimes in the past in some cities, (NYC) where neighborhoods were gentrifying rapidly, this occasionally quite hideously devolved into an arson situation.

There are now professionals who advertise their services in driving people out, who move in pretending to be just another building dweller and then drive the people living around them out by every dirty trick possible.

They advertise in apartment owners association yellow pages.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 26, 2019, 01:00:51 am
She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public

I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on January 26, 2019, 01:12:40 am
Honestly, at this point, I think she should devote some quality time to asking other trans people about smaller towns. Along the Hudson River there are a lot of smaller towns (Nyack is one) that are not so gentrified, are nice, artsy, and I suspect would be welcoming, not hostile to her and her cool stuff.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 26, 2019, 01:55:49 am
She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public

I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.

I see on Patreon "I wish I could help... and if we all chpped in etc" maybe they can all help Fran by also exposing the situation about the building.

But I suppose for those that live far out, I am not sure if some live close or not, that they would have to travel there which maybe impractical.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on January 26, 2019, 04:36:57 am
I see on Patreon "I wish I could help... and if we all chpped in etc"...
Is funding currently the biggest problem to be solved? Regardless, I would say that it wouldn't hurt and it's something a bit of distributed computing can help with.
https://pastebin.com/XvACe09K
I calculate that if just 1% of Fran's subscribers each set up a miner and share 80% of the profit with her, she would end up getting on the order of $11k per month. Seems too good to be true, but the percentage of viewers on a tech-oriented show who happen to have a Raspberry Pi and old Android phone or tablet lying around would probably be quite a bit more than 1%?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 26, 2019, 09:32:05 am
Honestly, at this point, I think she should devote some quality time to asking other trans people about smaller towns.

I suggested that some time ago.
Too late now, she has a new lease signed.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on January 26, 2019, 10:52:43 am
She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public

I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
That would be certainly an interesting fight. The problem is that, once this bottle is opened it can't be closed again. In one of her videos she mentioned the aversion to interact with people - imagine with journailsts, where several are specialists in the art of deception and distortion. That and the fact she would expose her businesses to public scrutiny.

She is a smart person and probably calculated all these risks, including personal safety - unfortunately, as I said before, we are not privy to all details about her lease contract and her business affairs.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 26, 2019, 03:21:43 pm
She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public

I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
That would be certainly an interesting fight. The problem is that, once this bottle is opened it can't be closed again. In one of her videos she mentioned the aversion to interact with people - imagine with journailsts, where several are specialists in the art of deception and distortion. That and the fact she would expose her businesses to public scrutiny.

She is a smart person and probably calculated all these risks, including personal safety - unfortunately, as I said before, we are not privy to all details about her lease contract and her business affairs.

So she wants to use her time and energy to continue with what she doing with the work to the best she can and not get distracted or derailed by unwanted attention.

I see that what keeps the subscribers in and the support and the videos going.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: JoeO on January 27, 2019, 03:47:47 am
All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own.   If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me.  Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff. 

Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord.   Still need a form of down payment and steady income though.  Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
You are right Mr Squirrel.  It is typical for a building owner to lease a building to someone to start a retail business, let's say selling ice cream.  If it is successful, the lease will not be renewed and the owner then starts his own ice cream business in the same location.  It is best to own your building if you want to operate a business.

AFAIK, Fran can live anywhere.  Housing is cheap in upstate NY but you don't have all the "culture" or "entertainment" available to you that is in NYC or Philly.

Louis Rossmann in NYC has a thriving business, some of which is walk-in traffic.  But Jessa Jones, who does similar work at iPad Rehab is in upstate NY, Honeoye Falls, NY (Population 2,674).  Most of her business has to be mail in.     

Good luck to Fran.  I hope things work out for her.
Louis Rossmann just got it stuck to him by the owner of his building.  There has been no gas heat in his building for 3 months.  Management gave him 3 tiny electric heaters to use to heat his work area.  Guess who is sitting in the cold?  Guess who pays for the electricity!

Own your space!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o)

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 27, 2019, 10:19:29 am
Louis Rossmann just got it stuck to him by the owner of his building.  There has been no gas heat in his building for 3 months.  Management gave him 3 tiny electric heaters to use to heat his work area.  Guess who is sitting in the cold?  Guess who pays for the electricity!

Own your space!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o)
Or move to a place with decent laws protecting the renter. In many places that wouldn't fly. You'd simply hire a repair main and send the bill to the owner, or deduct it from the rent.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: 0xff7 on January 27, 2019, 01:03:53 pm
This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.

Can confirm.

Back in 2016 I had to move from my surprisingly decently priced 1br off Yesler because the owner sold the building. Now there's $500k condos in its place. 🙄
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on January 27, 2019, 02:47:56 pm
I suspect she would be overjoyed to get out of the city a bit. She would be able to afford more space, have a garden, get some sunshine, not worry so much about parking, crime, etc.

Suburban areas outside of large cities may no longer be as hostile to non-traditional people as she might remember from her past, if she grew up in some non-urban area.

She should move because the longer she stays, the more time recovery (as far as her health) from the current situation could take, I suspect.

If I were her, though, I would save money- if she buys a place, she should only buy right after the next crash, which seem to occur almost like clockwork every ten years or so. And not get a variable rate mortgage, or ideally, any mortgage. There are communities where people can buy houses for very little. Big parts of the country cost very little to live in, unlike the Northeast or West Coast. Finding one that also is a positive place that wont be hostile to her being trans, seems like a big job but it would be made a lot simpler if she finds people who have successfully made similar transitions and gets advice from them. They must be out there somewhere.

Todays nice affordable small town often becomes tomorrows unaffordable small town so its a moving target.

At one point in my life I was considering moving to the area around Santa Fe, NM, in the US Southwest, because I really like the food, artistic, tech and social matrix, and awesome scenery and hiking around there. And at the time it was really cheap. Not any more! Now its just insanely expensive. People have to act on things like that when they can.






Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 27, 2019, 03:13:52 pm
You seem to make an awful lot of assumptions about that Fran would like and is looking for, cdev. I can only assume she's evaluated various options, including ones which mean moving around.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on January 27, 2019, 07:16:22 pm
She certainly would be an asset to any community I would want to live in.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cs.dk on January 27, 2019, 07:18:19 pm
I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
A transgender person.

Never watched any of her content - But it she a he? :wtf:
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on January 27, 2019, 07:35:34 pm
I think her voice is likely raspy right now because of the junk in the air she's likely inhaling. She needs to get out of there.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on January 27, 2019, 10:17:04 pm
Quote
Never watched any of her content - But it she a he? :wtf:
I think she was outed like 2008, or something. Maybe 2012? And she is now more or less open about it.
It was obvious to me within a few seconds of seeing her on video, but I've lived in LA. After your first surprise, you see it everywhere. But it's like when someone is obviously pregnant. You can't be 100% sure, so you just keep it to yourself. Plus there's nothing to gain from acknowledging it. If you're wrong, you pissed off a female. If you are right, you disappointed a transgender who thinks she is passing. Fran's style of hair and clothing for her age is as big a tipoff as her voice. 40 somethin' with pigtails and tight T shirts. Yeah, ok.

It surprises me that it surprises anyone. Female tech level nerd who isn't a total frump. When something's too good to be true... If she were a biological female, she would have been snapped up by the feminist SJW's ten years ago, made the face of some tech company or otherwise having her name and face plastered all over the internet. Ala Jerry Ellsworth or Meredith Perry. She would have some gig better than scraping up Pateron cash for a place to live.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on January 27, 2019, 11:31:30 pm
Lots of people don't wear age-indicative clothing. My 83-year old aunt comes to mind...if you were to see her from behind in any non-formal setting, she'd look like a 5' teenage girl in t-shirt and jeans with a ponytail down to her waist.

I'm sure Fran would be happy you think she is that young...you missed by a decade. But that might also indicate your observational skills aren't quite as sharp as you claim.  Also remember the shirts Fran wears on-stream are being modeled. You can buy them.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on January 27, 2019, 11:43:17 pm
Quote
I'm sure Fran would be happy you think she is that young...you missed by a decade
Like with the pregnant woman. If you're not sure, you better guess low. :) See, I have no problem with trans persons. I treat her like a woman, still.

I get it. I still remember how hard it is to cross that line in your head the first time. When someone looks close enough and they present and act like a woman, you just give them the credit. Heck, my first big surprise was a 3rd date. :) My friends met her and didn't know, either. There are probably a lot of trans woman I wouldn't guess, but Fran isn't one of them.

I don't mean to reinforce stereotypes, but I didn't entertain for more than a second or two that she might be a biological woman. Living alone in a utilitarian warehouse surrounded by (expensive!) tools and junk instead of decorations and colors, but her own appearance being so... feminine and meticulous. I would probably be fooled if she dressed in a sack, didn't care about her makeup, and she ate her own earwax. That would be believable.

I don't mean any of this as a put down or insult. If anything, it would be incredible if there was a biological woman raised in the 70's that turned out like Fran. It would be also be nice if unicorns existed. You can mark me as a fan and supporter of Fran as a person. I'm subscribed. I like her. I just don't watch. Her electronics related content just doesn't interest me. The rants, neither. I like her YouTube analytics and conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rrinker on January 28, 2019, 06:07:30 pm
Honestly, at this point, I think she should devote some quality time to asking other trans people about smaller towns.

I suggested that some time ago.
Too late now, she has a new lease signed.

 Yeah, and she wouldn't have had to go far even. New Hope is right there. If ever there was a place friendly to all sorts of alternative lifestyles, that's certainly it. Although being such an artsy area it's also not a cheap place to live. Though I kind of think at one point she did mention that. Since most people here are NOT familiar with this area, Google it - New Hope is quite an eclectic place.

 Water over the bridge, since she has a new place all lined up already and everything, so little point in dwelling on it now.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on January 29, 2019, 05:11:29 am
I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
A transgender person.

Never watched any of her content - But it she a he? :wtf:
No. She is a trans woman, which is not a “he”.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on January 29, 2019, 01:49:11 pm
Why are some guys insistent on calling engineering women fake? And then expect women to be nice to them?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on January 29, 2019, 03:24:04 pm
I don't care what gender she is she does good videos and shares it.

I understand the majority of things she is explaining.

I have seen Thunderfoot's channel where he exposes some fake whatnots? but he argues it is not about their gender.
Edit: Actually just remembered I don't think they were actually engineers but more scientists of some sort.

I think Fran is much more than a real engineer and a machinist with all that machinery and she has a lot to show for it in the videos.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: coppercone2 on January 29, 2019, 05:49:44 pm
I sense a shit storm brewing in this thread. Get your rain slickers. Tornado is approaching the treatment plant.

Alternative life styles like what kind of degenerate behavior are you thinking of? Stuck thinking about a 70s disco or something? You meant to say a location not occupied by phobic paranoid dickheads?

Thunderfoot is shit. I wanna see if he can open a can of beans. That guy fused with the armchair.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 31, 2019, 10:53:10 pm
FranLab FLOODED!  :palm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU)



She seems to have three options:
- Just continue to take it up the arse
- Give up and walk out right now, get an AirBnB or something in the mean time and make do until the new space is ready
- Engage lawyers at 12 paces
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 31, 2019, 10:58:44 pm
Lots of people don't wear age-indicative clothing. My 83-year old aunt comes to mind...if you were to see her from behind in any non-formal setting, she'd look like a 5' teenage girl in t-shirt and jeans with a ponytail down to her waist.
I'm sure Fran would be happy you think she is that young...you missed by a decade. But that might also indicate your observational skills aren't quite as sharp as you claim.  Also remember the shirts Fran wears on-stream are being modeled. You can buy them.

I'm the odd one out in my building - shorts, silly t-shirt (today it's Thunderbirds), sandles. The rest look like corporate drones.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on January 31, 2019, 11:07:46 pm
I hope Fran has some form of business or renters contents insurance cover, that way it would be trivial to claim damages and let them fight for the money at no cost to her.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 31, 2019, 11:09:15 pm
FranLab FLOODED!  :palm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU)



She seems to have three options:
- Just continue to take it up the arse
- Give up and walk out right now, get an AirBnB or something in the mean time and make do until the new space is ready
- Engage lawyers at 12 paces
At this point you really have to wonder whether it's a somewhat coordinated campaign. Just be such a pain that people decide to pack up and leave.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: grumpydoc on January 31, 2019, 11:11:57 pm
No. She is a trans woman, which is not a “he”.
She is, but you know what would be cool - just viewing Fran as Fran.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on February 01, 2019, 01:52:58 am
Unfortunately I called this scenario a few months ago...

Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.

Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
Exactly. The pressure to leave becomes unsurmountable, which may include recklessness (on purpose or not). I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on February 01, 2019, 09:27:11 am
The latest flooding video has been removed.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: JoeO on February 01, 2019, 10:15:07 am
Why?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: LapTop006 on February 01, 2019, 12:24:51 pm
I'm the odd one out in my building - shorts, silly t-shirt (today it's Thunderbirds), sandles. The rest look like corporate drones.

I had to go into the city this morning (normally I'm just on the other side of Darling Harbour in Ultimo & Pyrmont), I think I saw more men in suits in that half hour than I do in an average month normally.

A good well-fitting suit can be quite comfortable, although a dark suit in the middle of the Australian summer? Not sure I could be paid enough for that one.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on February 01, 2019, 03:40:03 pm
They peed on her apartment and with the video taken down I expect they are going to compensate and fix the damage.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: apis on February 01, 2019, 05:09:41 pm
Wow, that really sucks. I hope she has insurance and/or can sue or something.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: cdev on February 02, 2019, 04:17:45 am
ugh.. this sounds like San Francisco's real estate wars, not Philly's.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: basinstreetdesign on February 02, 2019, 04:59:02 am
They peed on her apartment and with the video taken down I expect they are going to compensate and fix the damage.
The direct approach - I love it.  It can work faster and with more positive results than any lawsuit.  I hope that is what is happening.  It may also motivate them to help her move.
Best of luck to her.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Richard Crowley on February 02, 2019, 12:19:18 pm
Since the flooding video is gone, what did it say?
When I saw "flooded" I assumed it was perhaps related to a broken pipe from the epic cold wave, etc?
Especially since the building is in some intermediate state of being demolished?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: apis on February 02, 2019, 02:50:38 pm
Iirc they had cut of pipes to the sprinkler system around the building (or something equivalent) and then someone turned on the valve again.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on February 02, 2019, 05:51:04 pm
Other than the bit at the beginning and the bit at the end, that video was mostly of the camera pointed at the room during cleanup. That included a somewhat heated conversation with one of the building representatives, followed by some conversations with a couple of the girls hired to help mop up the water.

And that is probably also why Fran pulled the video once she thought about it. She was probably OK on the video portion of it, but Pennsylvania generally requires both parties be aware of audio recording in non-public places, and I'm pretty sure the building guy wasn't aware the camera was on. (Surveillance laws vary significantly among the 50 states. In many states this would be legal with only one party consent.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on February 04, 2019, 03:02:23 am
I hope this situation leads to them simply saying "this is nuts, just give her some money to bugger off".
But given that any liability on this will likely not waste any of their time, and cost will be handled by insurance, I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on February 04, 2019, 03:03:15 am
Other than the bit at the beginning and the bit at the end, that video was mostly of the camera pointed at the room during cleanup. That included a somewhat heated conversation with one of the building representatives, followed by some conversations with a couple of the girls hired to help mop up the water.

And that is probably also why Fran pulled the video once she thought about it. She was probably OK on the video portion of it, but Pennsylvania generally requires both parties be aware of audio recording in non-public places, and I'm pretty sure the building guy wasn't aware the camera was on. (Surveillance laws vary significantly among the 50 states. In many states this would be legal with only one party consent.)

Even if legal, her lawyer (which she said she was going to engage) might have advised her to remove it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on February 05, 2019, 09:49:37 pm
I hope this situation leads to them simply saying "this is nuts, just give her some money to bugger off".
But given that any liability on this will likely not waste any of their time, and cost will be handled by insurance, I'm not holding my breath.
You could call the work or safety inspection on them due to dangerous situations being created by the work they do. Contractor cowboys love a good OSHA inspection.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on June 04, 2019, 01:21:20 am
Fran is looking for a job (request toward end of video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhtXP2Gn8U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhtXP2Gn8U)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: MrMobodies on June 04, 2019, 02:35:26 am
I have just seen that. I don't know if the changes have come in effect but if they start to dictate what they think I want to see not what I select (Interfere with my search and refuse content) despite me paying for Premium and cause the channels that I go there for to see to go out of business I think that may be a cut off point for me.

All colour tiles in stuck there in yer face and I could imagine that giving someone an epileptic fit.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 24, 2019, 04:35:54 am
Here we go again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbLNfYe8ls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbLNfYe8ls)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sleemanj on September 24, 2019, 05:49:34 am
She has a six year lease. 

:shrug:  ball is in her court entirely unless the lease isn't worth the paper it was written on.

She gets to stay there as long as she wants (up to the lease expiry), and a reasonable chance that if she finds somewhere better she could probably get out early and maybe be paid to do so if the cards are played right.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 24, 2019, 07:39:34 am
She has a six year lease. 

In Australia you have to buy it with the lease, but in the US?  :-//
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 24, 2019, 07:56:23 am
I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on September 24, 2019, 08:26:02 am
I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?

But the new landlord can make your life hell if he wants you to leave: Start noisy and dirty renovations in the rest of the building, "accidentally" cut off or damage water, heating and electricity supply, etc.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: thinkfat on September 24, 2019, 09:24:11 am
I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?

But the new landlord can make your life hell if he wants you to leave: Start noisy and dirty renovations in the rest of the building, "accidentally" cut off or damage water, heating and electricity supply, etc.

Which is precisely what happened to her with her previous lease. The building was practically being demolished around her, while she tried keeping the lab running and the dust and noise out.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sleemanj on September 24, 2019, 10:06:21 am
I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?

But the new landlord can make your life hell if he wants you to leave: Start noisy and dirty renovations in the rest of the building, "accidentally" cut off or damage water, heating and electricity supply, etc.

A good lease agreement should include a Quiet Enjoyment term, "noisy and dirty renovations" lasting  long period of time, "accidentally" doing things on a recurring nature, that sort of thing would breach such a Quiet Enjoyment clause.

If a lease agreement didn't have such a clause, well, it wouldn't be a very good lease agreement!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: dr.diesel on September 24, 2019, 10:24:56 am
A good lease agreement should include a Quiet Enjoyment term, "noisy and dirty renovations" lasting  long period of time, "accidentally" doing things on a recurring nature, that sort of thing would breach such a Quiet Enjoyment clause.

If a lease agreement didn't have such a clause, well, it wouldn't be a very good lease agreement!

Landlords almost always have the upper hand, especially in situations like Fran's, they would have absolutely zero incentive to allow a noise clause.  And even if Fran had such a clause she would have to sue to enforce it at her own expense.

If the new buyer's goal is to renovate and flip, her best bet is they offer a few months rent to buy out her lease and move on.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on September 24, 2019, 12:51:09 pm
Here we go again!
That is just sad. How much bad luck can a person get?  :o
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: thinkfat on September 24, 2019, 01:38:38 pm
Landlords almost always have the upper hand, especially in situations like Fran's, they would have absolutely zero incentive to allow a noise clause.  And even if Fran had such a clause she would have to sue to enforce it at her own expense.

If the new buyer's goal is to renovate and flip, her best bet is they offer a few months rent to buy out her lease and move on.

Buy out is likely what's going to happen. I remember she had to do a pretty substantial advance payment on the rent, too. But it's really tough on Fran. It was quite hard for her to get this place, being self-employed and such. It's quite a shame. Landlords and banks get to ask substantial securities while they really don't offer any safety against loosing the lease in return.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on September 24, 2019, 02:05:01 pm
I foresee a slew of folks pointing the fingers and saying "I told you so" on many angles and opinions...  :(

I wonder: isn't there in the lease contract a break clause with a hefty penalty proportional to the length of time remaining on the contract? All things aside, that could easily offset the moving expenses - not the mental breakdown, though.

I don't know the rules around here in the US - it varies from state to state and maybe even from city to city.

Perhaps bring the new/prospective owner to the bargaining table would help?

I once had to deal with this and the owner sent a letter saying the property was being offered for sale, gave us priority to buy it or leave within 60 days. Obviously that, without cash, we were forced to leave but fortunately the law didn't match the owner's planned schedule for his own sale plans: we had 30 days to reply, then 90 days more to vacate the premises (this was in Brasil). Also, the lease contract had a break clause with a hefty penalty to cover the moving expenses. In the end we left the property within 60 days but we got lots of extra benefits from the owner for the expedited process, such as one month free and paid moving expenses (on top of the break penalty).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: leonababy on September 24, 2019, 02:19:05 pm
Oh dear - I am so sorry to hear this Fran!  I had to keep looking at the date to verify this is new bad news.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: FreddieChopin on September 24, 2019, 05:55:09 pm
Here we go again!
That is just sad. How much bad luck can a person get?  :o

Never enough  ;D or as we say: давай нахуй быстро, сука блядь! But seriously, if he's constantly in trouble to pay rent then maybe it's a sign that it's time for a career change? Software development is less demanding while offering a pay good enough for her to continue electroncis tinkering as a pure hobby.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on September 24, 2019, 06:04:06 pm
Here we go again!
That is just sad. How much bad luck can a person get?  :o

Never enough  ;D But seriously, if he's constantly in trouble to pay rent then maybe it's a sign that it's time for a career change? Software development is less demanding while offering a pay good enough for him to continue electroncis tinkering as a pure hobby.

Lack of awareness? Being able to pay the rent isn't the issue here at all!

Also, you're being pretty insensitive/insulting with your choice of gender pronouns, never mind the unsolicited advice you're offering.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 25, 2019, 12:16:20 am
If the new buyer's goal is to renovate and flip, her best bet is they offer a few months rent to buy out her lease and move on.

I believe Fran has a long lease, like 6 years or something, maybe even with options to extend.
I don't know what building she is in, I assume it's a residential apartment type block, but it's likely a new owner won't be looking to buy and just sit on it for 6+ years and eek out the rent.
How common is property "flipping" in Philly?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Cyberdragon on September 25, 2019, 01:38:28 am
Quote
She has a six year lease.

:shrug:  ball is in her court entirely unless the lease isn't worth the paper it was written on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjaLsBdKGrY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjaLsBdKGrY)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 25, 2019, 03:54:40 am
I wonder if she should have banded together with some other makers to buy a shared shop where real estate is cheap, as Laura Kampf did.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 25, 2019, 04:00:45 am
She refuses to move outside of the area she's in.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 25, 2019, 04:20:26 am
In that case the situation is likely to repeat. What's that saying, something about insanity being trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: wilfred on September 25, 2019, 06:23:01 am
She refuses to move outside of the area she's in.
And she fully and openly explained why she prefers to stay near friends in a community that embraces her.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 25, 2019, 07:15:39 am
I don't care why. Sometimes your biggest problem is in the mirror, like it or not. Her friends should be pushing her to do what she NEEDS to do, not what she wants to do.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: FreddieChopin on September 25, 2019, 08:24:03 am
NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.
If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.
An optional additional explanation is:
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on September 25, 2019, 12:08:00 pm
In that case the situation is likely to repeat. What's that saying, something about insanity being trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome?
I wouldn't put it that way but there is some truth in it. When choosing an older (cheap) building in an upcoming neighbourhood the chances are high the building will be renovated / demolished some time soon. So the trick is to rent something which has been built/renovated recently. That is going to be more expensive; it could be Fran's wishes don't match her income so she may have to make a tough choice.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: dr.diesel on September 25, 2019, 12:23:46 pm
I believe Fran has a long lease, like 6 years or something, maybe even with options to extend.
I don't know what building she is in, I assume it's a residential apartment type block, but it's likely a new owner won't be looking to buy and just sit on it for 6+ years and eek out the rent.
How common is property "flipping" in Philly?

Flipping property is common all over the US and the lease could have easily had provisions for such an event, many do.

In any case, if the new owner wishes her out, they can make her life miserable, fighting it will just prolong the misery.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 25, 2019, 01:09:27 pm
And she fully and openly explained why she prefers to stay near friends in a community that embraces her.
Are her friends also interested in better housing? Maybe a shared shop building would be the best solution, whether mostly common areas or partitioned.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on September 25, 2019, 01:20:14 pm
I don't care why. Sometimes your biggest problem is in the mirror, like it or not. Her friends should be pushing her to do what she NEEDS to do, not what she wants to do.
It‘s not about her friends’ needs, it’s about Fran’s own needs. And they matter, a lot. Trans women are being murdered left and right in USA right now. Choosing a place that is accepting is not a matter of convenience. It’s about personal safety. It’s about specialized healthcare. It’s about having (or being able to acquire) a support network. These are all things that any rational person would take heavily into consideration when choosing a place to live. As a gay man, I can assure you that they’re all things I think about a LOT when choosing where to live.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on September 25, 2019, 01:31:34 pm
Probably but such a choice should also include getting a job or keep trying to be self-employed. In the end it all boils down to having enough money to live the way you want. You have to find the lesser of all evils (a compromise).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 25, 2019, 04:03:39 pm
I don't care why. Sometimes your biggest problem is in the mirror, like it or not. Her friends should be pushing her to do what she NEEDS to do, not what she wants to do.
It‘s not about her friends’ needs, it’s about Fran’s own needs. And they matter, a lot. Trans women are being murdered left and right in USA right now. Choosing a place that is accepting is not a matter of convenience. It’s about personal safety. It’s about specialized healthcare. It’s about having (or being able to acquire) a support network. These are all things that any rational person would take heavily into consideration when choosing a place to live. As a gay man, I can assure you that they’re all things I think about a LOT when choosing where to live.

Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were. I don't care about Fran's friends either and I wasn't talking about their needs. I have a trans family member and more gay friends than I can count and talking honestly is always the best course of action. Not scaring people, not making them think they're going to be murdered but pushing them to have the best life they can even if you never get to see them again. This could be a really good example of WHY Fran should leave the area she's in if her friends are making her afraid to leave.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on September 25, 2019, 09:28:38 pm
Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)

Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016.  >:(

I don't care about Fran's friends either and I wasn't talking about their needs. I have a trans family member and more gay friends than I can count and talking honestly is always the best course of action. Not scaring people, not making them think they're going to be murdered but pushing them to have the best life they can even if you never get to see them again. This could be a really good example of WHY Fran should leave the area she's in if her friends are making her afraid to leave.
Where did you get the idea that her friends are telling her to be afraid to leave? She never said that. AFAIK we haven’t been told anything that her friends might have said.

All we know about this (and I’m not even sure this is from the horse’s mouth, as I believe it’s more what we have speculated in this thread) is that she has a support network in Philly that she doesn’t want to leave, and IMHO that is a perfectly valid reason to choose to stay.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on September 25, 2019, 10:07:38 pm
Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)

Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016.  >:(


getting totally off topics but , ...


from google:
"According to the Williams Institute, in 2016, approximately 0.6 percent of adults in the United States identified as transgender."

from the article you linked:
"In 2018, advocates tracked at least 26 deaths of transgender people in the U.S. due to fatal violence"

26*100/0.6 = 4333

from FBI:
"In 2017, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 17,284"








Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 25, 2019, 11:38:33 pm
Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)

Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016.  >:(

I don't care about Fran's friends either and I wasn't talking about their needs. I have a trans family member and more gay friends than I can count and talking honestly is always the best course of action. Not scaring people, not making them think they're going to be murdered but pushing them to have the best life they can even if you never get to see them again. This could be a really good example of WHY Fran should leave the area she's in if her friends are making her afraid to leave.
Where did you get the idea that her friends are telling her to be afraid to leave? She never said that. AFAIK we haven’t been told anything that her friends might have said.

All we know about this (and I’m not even sure this is from the horse’s mouth, as I believe it’s more what we have speculated in this thread) is that she has a support network in Philly that she doesn’t want to leave, and IMHO that is a perfectly valid reason to choose to stay.

I assume her friends would be like you telling her trans people are being murdered all the time so she can't go anywhere. Feeding her fears and making her stay put. A support network can change, and maybe hers should.

Notice how most of the transgender deaths have been Black people? This has been a running trend for YEARS. Murder rates in black populations are high so the fact that they're transgender doesn't mean people are murdering transgenders at any specific rate, it's more likely being black and in a black community was a bigger part of it. No, it's also not racism. People generally murder people like themselves. The uptick(a couple more a year) is most likely attributable to the number of people identifying as transgender.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 26, 2019, 12:11:45 am
Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016.  >:(

It says 26 people in a whole year. I don't know how many trans people there are in the USA but given there are two of them just in my own little circle of friends they can't be *that* rare.

Is it a problem? Sure, it would be great if 0 people were being murdered, but I still wouldn't say it's "happening left and right". I think in most large cities a trans person is more likely to be killed by a drunk/texting driver or be the victim of a random crime than to be targeting specifically for being trans.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on September 26, 2019, 01:13:04 am
26*100/0.6 = 4333

And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.

I'll give you a hint. Population of the USA is about 330 million. Some of those are children, so call it 250 million adults. 0.6% may be a small percentage, but it's still a lot of people.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on September 26, 2019, 01:23:21 am
26*100/0.6 = 4333

And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.

I'll give you a hint. Population of the USA is about 330 million. Some of those are children, so call it 250 million adults. 0.6% may be a small percentage, but it's still a lot of people.

26 out of 0.6%,  extrapolate to 100% you would expect 4333, the actual number is ~17000 iow the rate is less than 1/4 of the average for the population as a whole
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on September 26, 2019, 01:59:53 am
26*100/0.6 = 4333

And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.
This was a test on how to interpret statistics and you failed  >:D
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 26, 2019, 03:29:24 am
Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)
Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016.  >:(

Nope, sorry.
0.6% population is trans best figure I can find (I doubt it's that high, but it's an often quoted number), so that's 1.96M people US wide.
26 trans deaths US wide, or 0.0013%, assuming all are deaths because they were killed just for being trans (they aren't, but worse case).
Homocides in Philly alone were 351 for 2018, so right there you are vastly more likely to get killed randomly on the streets of Philly than killed for being trans.

You can't live your life in fear.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 26, 2019, 03:37:07 am
As for moving somewhere else, I've tried my best to convince Fran to do that but she keeps assuring me it's not possible. I still don't believe it's not easily possible, but what do I know. I tried.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 26, 2019, 04:37:36 am
She grew up in a time when misogyny was even more of a problem than it is now, maybe she's under the false impression that the area she's living in is less misogynistic than the places she lived in previously?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 26, 2019, 04:40:42 am
Well you can lead a horse to water...

Eventually it sometimes becomes clear that a person is just going to keep making poor life choices and it gets harder to be sympathetic.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 26, 2019, 04:55:33 am
Could part of the problem is that it's mostly guys giving the advice? Problem is that there aren't many well known women who have recently dealt with similar situations regarding housing - Laura Kampf and Naomi Wu are the only ones I can think of. But they both figured out that cheap real estate is the way to go to have the room to work and keep expenses down.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 26, 2019, 05:01:20 am
I don't see how this is a gender issue, it's a common problem that anyone who is renting will need to figure out. If you live in an inexpensive older building in an area that is gentrifying there is a very good chance you'll soon be looking for a new place to live.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on September 26, 2019, 05:26:44 am
they both figured out that cheap real estate is the way to go to have the room to work and keep expenses down.

Brilliant! ;)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on September 26, 2019, 06:20:47 am
26*100/0.6 = 4333

And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.

I'll give you a hint. Population of the USA is about 330 million. Some of those are children, so call it 250 million adults. 0.6% may be a small percentage, but it's still a lot of people.

26 out of 0.6%,  extrapolate to 100% you would expect 4333, the actual number is ~17000 iow the rate is less than 1/4 of the average for the population as a whole

You STILL haven't said 4333 what, although now that you've explained it a bit more I get where you were going from context.

Anyone with a teacher hat on would probably take points off for not actually stating the units or the conclusion.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: magic on September 26, 2019, 06:45:56 am
 :palm: :palm: :palm:

This should be obvious from the calculation itself.
Dividing the number of murders in a 0.6% subpopulation by 0.6% gives you the expected number of murders in the entire population, assuming the same density. Turns out, the actual number of murders in the rest of America is 4x higher.

Most likely "the activists" failed to count some deaths that happened or that SJW thinktank inflates their 0.6% statistic or both.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 29, 2019, 08:46:36 am
Fran is officially looking for an "investor" to buy her lab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBOg1SFVCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBOg1SFVCY)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 29, 2019, 08:54:38 am
I hope that's plan B while plan A is moving along.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 29, 2019, 08:59:27 am
I hope that's plan B while plan A is moving along.

This is plan Alpha, preempting the need for a Plan-A
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on September 29, 2019, 09:01:06 am
Got it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 30, 2019, 01:39:47 am
I don't see how this is a gender issue, it's a common problem that anyone who is renting will need to figure out. If you live in an inexpensive older building in an area that is gentrifying there is a very good chance you'll soon be looking for a new place to live.
She refuses to move to an area with cheap real estate, claiming that as a woman, she wouldn't feel safe in those areas. (Yet she feels perfectly safe "grounding" outlets to the neutral wire, go figure...)

I wonder if she's aware that not too long ago, a little Chinese girl, faced with a similar problem, did just that - get a nice, big shop in a cheaper part of the city.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on September 30, 2019, 02:31:01 am
I only hope she does not burn her credibility for new supporters and stretch the patience of her existing by having yet another unfallible plan that pretty much resembles the former one. The supporters may feel they are giving money to someone that is not making reasonable monetary decisions and the risk of a steep drop in income is quite real.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: BravoV on September 30, 2019, 03:06:22 am
Don't understand what the fuss is this all about ?

Isn't this exactly like ordinary problem that we're all facing in the world ?

Want to live "and work" in a nice cozy neighborhood but cheap and affordable ? This can't be right.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: beanflying on September 30, 2019, 03:30:26 am
I only hope she does not burn her credibility for new supporters and stretch the patience of her existing by having yet another unfallible plan that pretty much resembles the former one. The supporters may feel they are giving money to someone that is not making reasonable monetary decisions and the risk of a steep drop in income is quite real.

Agreed and to a fair degree she has lost me as a regular viewer while I am still a currently subscriber (along with 50 other channels  :palm:). People airing their business issues publicly for sympathy or monetary gain for what most of us consider general life problems isn't conducive to viewing their other content. This doesn't mean don't do it but there is a downside risk to your bottom line when you make content for part of your living. Youtube if done as a business is just that and some last and some fail.

If the business model isn't sustainable in the current location/area she is comfortable with then time to move on either location or business wise.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: BravoV on September 30, 2019, 03:47:15 am
Personally, I would like to see her settled in Trump Tower, complete with living + her workshop space enough for all her stuffs, that will be perfect.

But alas, just don't have the spare money to help her, just supporting emotionally.

That place is pretty safe I guess, as US Secret Service personnel usually wondering around in vicinity.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 30, 2019, 04:17:05 am
Don't understand what the fuss is this all about ?
Isn't this exactly like ordinary problem that we're all facing in the world ?

It would be if it's just were she lived, and her lab space was separate, but this involves her lab, so automatically becomes part of the audience care factor.
AFAIK she lives in the same space.

FYI, I found houses under $250k within 5km of Philly central, and big townhouses for $120k. I can see no sensible reason to pay $389k to be were she is (presumably in a nice "safe" area of Philly CBD).
I can understand liking a city, but surely looking 5-10km out isn't such a big deal?

She could probably raise $100k-$150k to buy a place outright or put a huge deposit on if it was done right, but it can't be like last time were is just sold effectively as a "stop gap" fund raising to keep her going another year.
And it is very difficult to get loans in her circumstance, but with say a 50% cash deposit I don't believe for a minute that it shouldn't be possible if you find the right broker.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Carl_Smith on September 30, 2019, 04:36:35 am
The last time this happened she went on for quite a bit about "gentrification" and how people purposely buy properties and whole neighborhoods for the purpose of improving them so that the lower income and "less desirable" people can no longer afford to live there.

I think that is assuming a lot about the situation that probably is not true.  What is boils down to most of the time is one thing:

People with money want to invest their money to make more money.  One way to do this is to buy a property and "add value" by improving it, then sell it for a large profit, or by rent it for a much higher rate than would have been possible before the improvements.  That's all it is -- an investment.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 30, 2019, 04:44:55 am
FYI, I found houses under $250k within 5km of Philly central, and big townhouses for $120k. I can see no sensible reason to pay $389k to be were she is (presumably in a nice "safe" area of Philly CBD).
I can understand liking a city, but surely looking 5-10km out isn't such a big deal?

This.

Sorry but I've just known too many people like that and used up most of my sympathy. What they are doing obviously is not sustainable so you offer them several viable solutions to their problems and they shoot them all down with various excuses and keep moaning about their situation and blaming external causes that they have no control over. Someone who lives and works in the same space has little reason to be stuck in a big city, and using safety as an excuse is just silly. Cities in general are statistically far less safe than the suburbs and either way there are only a few pockets scattered around the country that I would consider genuinely unsafe to live in.

I mean I get that she'd like to continue living in the area she's living in, ok well I'd like to live in a big house on a lake but the simple reality is that one has to live within their means. Fran has the fairly unique situation of being self employed in a field that relies only on having decent internet service and adequate space, there are countless affordable places all over the country that are arguably nicer and certainly much less stressful than moving from one dumpy building to the next in an area that is in the middle of gentrification. Count me as another who stopped watching the videos when they became soap operas that remind me of the circle of friends I had in my early 20s rather than interesting technical videos about random unusual stuff.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 30, 2019, 04:48:23 am
The last time this happened she went on for quite a bit about "gentrification" and how people purposely buy properties and whole neighborhoods for the purpose of improving them so that the lower income and "less desirable" people can no longer afford to live there.

I think that is assuming a lot about the situation that probably is not true.  What is boils down to most of the time is one thing:

People with money want to invest their money to make more money.  One way to do this is to buy a property and "add value" by improving it, then sell it for a large profit, or by rent it for a much higher rate than would have been possible before the improvements.  That's all it is -- an investment.

That is exactly it, it is nothing personal, it's strictly a business decision. If a property is available relatively cheaply in an area that is increasing or projected to increase in value, it's only natural that people are going to buy it, improve it and attempt to profit off it. I don't like gentrification either generally, I hardly recognize Seattle anymore but it isn't happening to get rid of undesirable people, it's happening because there is a lot of money to be made and by and large everyone likes making money. People love to ride their moral high horse until they themselves have an opportunity to profit.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: BravoV on September 30, 2019, 04:55:00 am
To me, she is just milking the audiences, purely opportunistic move, if it fails she has nothing to loose, and if succeed, yay .. hooray.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 30, 2019, 07:51:51 am
Well, I guess that's that. She's completely given up on other options :(
If the place does get sold and "flipped" then she's probably screwed given the amount of grief it was last time.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: sleemanj on September 30, 2019, 09:46:05 am
She has a 6 year lease, unless that lease was written on the back of a piece of toilet paper by a drunk lawyer, then she should just quit worrying about things that might not, and probably won't, be a problem.

Just because the property is for sale, doesn't mean that things are going to change.  Plenty of properties are bought and sold all the time with existing leases in place, it doesn't mean they are going to, or are able to, push you out, it means you get to change the bank account you are depositing your rent into.

I've never even met my commercial tenants, they were there when I acquired the property, and are still there today 6 years later, as long as the rent is in my account each month I'm a happy landlord.

Even if the property is sold to somebody who wants to redevelop, that doesn't mean they want or are even able to redevelop NOW, properties are commonly purchased and simply held for years, the new owners just sitting on the rental income until ducks are in a row, and that often means waiting for the existing leases to expire.

She has a lease, the purpose of a lease is to provide long term certainty, if it is not doing that, then that lease is terrible.







Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on September 30, 2019, 10:40:31 am
Well, I guess that's that. She's completely given up on other options :(
If the place does get sold and "flipped" then she's probably screwed given the amount of grief it was last time.
Being honest, I think she correctly sees that a new crowdfunding will fail - after all, it would happen way too close to the previous one. IMHO people always deserve a second chance, but most feel they already gave that to her.

Regardless, what sleemanj mentioned is correct: would having a new owner automatically mean ejecting a steady source of income? Or is this a reasonable fear (but still only a fear) she has, due to her previous encounters with landlords?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Psi on September 30, 2019, 10:46:17 am
There's no issue unless

A) The sale happens
and
B) The new owner makes things hard to try and make her leave.

For all we know, she could get a really nice new owner.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on September 30, 2019, 01:16:38 pm
She has a 6 year lease, unless that lease was written on the back of a piece of toilet paper by a drunk lawyer, then she should just quit worrying about things that might not, and probably won't, be a problem.

She got royally screwed over last time, they literally demolished the building around her, so that would be the catalyst for the fear.
You could argue she shouldn't have told anyone (or even worried about it) until it was sold and the problems start.
But also it's not a bad strategy to float it out there like she did and see if someone guaranteed friendly wants to buy it.

I reckon paying some homeless people to conveniently hang around the building when the inspection times happen could extend the sale indefinitely ;D
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: GreyWoolfe on September 30, 2019, 02:16:16 pm
I reckon paying some homeless people to conveniently hang around the building when the inspection times happen could extend the sale indefinitely ;D

A couple of cases of cheap beer or wine should cover it. :popcorn:
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on September 30, 2019, 02:54:15 pm
She got royally screwed over last time, they literally demolished the building around her, so that would be the catalyst for the fear.
You could argue she shouldn't have told anyone (or even worried about it) until it was sold and the problems start.
But also it's not a bad strategy to float it out there like she did and see if someone guaranteed friendly wants to buy it.

I reckon paying some homeless people to conveniently hang around the building when the inspection times happen could extend the sale indefinitely ;D
If all you have to do to make a healthy profit on real estate is to scare away a few hobos everyone would be jumping in.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on September 30, 2019, 04:11:11 pm
If all you have to do to make a healthy profit on real estate is to scare away a few hobos everyone would be jumping in.

I think you misread the proposal. Quite to the contrary, it suggests that all you have to do to scare away a real estate buyer is to invest in a few hobos.  ;)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on September 30, 2019, 04:22:07 pm
I don't think it would make any difference. At least here in Seattle piles of trash, used syringes and feces scattered around ratty tents doesn't seem to slow anything down. When a building is being demolished crews sweep the camp which soon pops up somewhere else nearby. Unfortunately well meaning people trying to advocate for the homeless mostly end up enabling addicts to live like this more so than helping but that's another topic.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Carl_Smith on October 01, 2019, 12:56:44 am
Like I commented on her video:  Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships.  You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage.  Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 01, 2019, 01:34:43 am
Quote
Cities in general are statistically far less safe than the suburbs and either way there are only a few pockets scattered around the country that I would consider genuinely unsafe to live in.
Not only this, but Philly has to be one of the worst cities for any kind of woman to live in. The street people in Philly are the most aggressive and privileged I have ever encountered. I have seen them follow a 70 yr old lady down the street, within arms reach and yelling so loud you can hear the harrassment from down the block, word for word. If they don't get your money, that won't stop them from marking "their territory" and making you feel unwelcome. And this isn't in the ghetto. It's everywhere there are restaurants and shops and businesses, and especially in the touristy areas.

I can't think of a worst place, other than small pockets of larger cities which are easily avoided and best forgotten. Baltimore might be up there, too, but Philly sure leaves an impression. I have no doubt Fran has friend that make her feel safe, there. But in 99.9% of the country, she wouldn't feel as unsafe to begin with, I imagine.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on October 01, 2019, 01:37:55 am
Like I commented on her video:  Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships.  You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage.  Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.

For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 01:42:18 am
Like I commented on her video:  Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships.  You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage.  Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.

Sole proprietors worldwide can generally get a loan if they have a good track record and figures to back them. A good mate of mine recently got a 90% loan for a house and has had a sole trading business for 7-8 years as an example but his accountant is a good one and the business has been doing well.

If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 01:48:40 am
Like I commented on her video:  Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships.  You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage.  Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.

For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.

That's not Carl's point. Fran has made the assertion that she flat out does not qualify for a home loan because she is a sole proprietor.
I agree with Carl, I can't see how that fact alone can be possibly true. There must be a way to get a loan given enough deposit and income.
Fran is not looking for a commercial business space, or a business loan, she's looking for essentially a home loan (or large apartment space) for a space she can live in. The fact that she operates a sole proprietorship from the space is inconsequential.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 01:49:54 am
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.

But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Psi on October 01, 2019, 01:53:30 am
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.

Even if you have plenty of income.
The banks do not like self employed people who get income in tiny amounts but from many sources. Even if they have plenty of total income to service the loan.
They prefer a self employed person who gets paid all their money from doing one or two tasks.

This makes no sense to me, but that's the way they think.
Maybe they are required to investigate and document all the sources of income and can't be bothered looking over 100 separate sources.
Or maybe they don't like 100 little sources coming and going from week to week.
Yeah, it's probably less about the person proving they had plenty of income in the past, and more about the bank knowing their sources of income are static and never changing.
i dunno.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Carl_Smith on October 01, 2019, 01:58:36 am
Like I commented on her video:  Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships.  You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage.  Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.

For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.

You do have a point there but it doesn't totally disprove my point.  :)

Probably a lot of those sole proprietorships are like you mention, a kid shoveling snow that has support of his parents for a place to live. Or people that run a side business from home but have a "real" job or a spouse with a "real" job that qualifies them for a mortgage on the home they live in.

But Fran was saying that if you are a sole proprietor you can't get any sort of mortgage, even for the home that you are going to put that desk and computer in to run your home based business, which is not true.  A significant portion of those sole proprietors are people that have no other income to qualify for a mortgage.

The problem is not being a sole proprietor.  Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Psi on October 01, 2019, 02:01:18 am
The problem is not being a sole proprietor.  Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.

Maybe not reliable, as you can prove reliability by looking at past history.
But definitely regular and consistent is the key issue.
If money comes in randomly and from random sources they wont touch you.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 01, 2019, 02:01:18 am
When the bank loans you the money, they own the property. 50% down is a no brainer. Default on payment, they get the property, they keep your 50% down. And they have to pay only for evicting you and cleaning up the property.

Quote
Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.

If she can't get a mortgage with 50% down, I would bet dollars to donuts it is because she has bad personal credit and/or the property is way overpriced to begin with. I don't care if she's a sole proprietor. I live in the US, and I'm a sole proprietor. IME, the bank mainly cares to see 3 things. That your last two months of deposits checks out with the annual income you are claiming, your personal credit history, and your asset to debt ratio, e.g. bank accounts and other loans and credit card balances.

 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Carl_Smith on October 01, 2019, 02:04:34 am
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.

But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?

I was thinking the exact same thing.  You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half.   But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 02:17:28 am
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.

But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?

I was thinking the exact same thing.  You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half.   But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.

50% of what and if that source of lump money is not your own then that is also a consideration to loan the $. That then Guarantor needs to be part of the loan agreement in most/all cases.

I have been a sole trader and or an unemployable bum for about 20 years so I have had plenty of exposure to banks and how they treat sole traders.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: forrestc on October 01, 2019, 02:28:31 am
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.

But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?

You would think so, wouldn't you?

The problem in the US is that a lot of banks are either extremely risk-averse or are large enough to not care.

If you have a perfect credit score, a "normal" easy-to-sell property, a large down payment, and a lot of wage (not self-employed) income, then things are fairly easy.   The more ways you differ from this the fewer options you have. 

One thing most people don't realize is that a very large percentage of loans (almost all?) are done through an automatic underwriting package which uses verifiable information to come up with an approve/deny based on weighted factors.   There are still manual underwriters out there but they're few and far between.   The automatic underwriters all seem to have 'hard qualification' issues.

For instance:

1) I've attempted to get a loan on a property which had a residence on just over 20 acres (like 20.05).   A lot of lenders won't write on anything over 20 acres.  Even if it was 20.05.   

2) A lot of lenders won't write to anyone who doesn't have wage income (as opposed to self-employed income).

3) A lot of lenders won't write to anyone who has a business on the property.    For example FHA (government guaranteed) loans don't permit loans on property with over 25% of the square footage being dedicated to business or non-residential use.

4) A lot of lenders won't write for anything slightly unique.   I once owned and lived in an old church which had been converted to a residence.   Because it looked like a church, most lenders wouldn't even consider a loan.   Add in the fact that I've pretty much always been self-employed, and financing it and refinancing it was typically a year-long process due to repeated rejections from different lending companies, usually due to the nature of the property, even though there are several properties like this in the neighborhood and they have historically sold very quickly - assuming a buyer can find financing.

5) If you have a business on the property, many home insurance companies won't write an insurance policy.   All lenders require you to have an insurance policy in place.   

6) If you're self-employed, lenders are VERY VERY fussy about proving consistent income which meets their thresholds and rules.   Anything perceived as not long-term is often a disqualification.

Combine more than one of the factors above (and probably others), and you'll find that getting loan is very difficult.  Especially if you don't have a perfect credit score.

My experience has been that down payment actually makes little difference to the lenders.   All they seem to care about is that you have either 20% to not have to pay extra for mortgage insurance, or if you qualify, even less is accepted but with mortgage insurance being charged every month.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 02:30:04 am
The problem is not being a sole proprietor.  Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.

And not having found the right broker who can help. There are almost 5000 banks in the US, and this is a list of banks in Pennsylvania:
https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm (https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 02:38:12 am
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.

But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?

I was thinking the exact same thing.  You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half.  But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.

Err, that's the point.
The bank owns your property, let's say valued at $200k contract price.
You put down 50% deposit and borrow $100k to buy the place.
You can't make the repayments, the bank can sell the property easily for $100k to recover their costs. Let's say $120k to include any foreclosure costs or whatever.
It's almost zero risk, unless you were completely hopeless at valuing properties, or the value more than halves.
Damn, I'll take that deal every day of the week, seriously, I'll go into the lending business. I'm not kidding. Anyone who wants to give me the title deed to a $200k housing asset to borrow $100k, I'll loan you the $100k no questions asked.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 01, 2019, 02:47:13 am
Quote
I was thinking the exact same thing.  You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half.  But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
But...
This person can take out a second mortgage with another lender, taking loans/credit on that original 50% down, then fuck off into overspending with no way to repay any of it. The second lender may be able to put a lien against the property.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on October 01, 2019, 02:52:11 am
Quote
I was thinking the exact same thing.  You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half.  But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
But...
This person can take out a second mortgage, taking loans/credit on that original 50% down, then fuck off into overspending with no plan to repay any of it.

That is largely irrelevant to the first mortgage holder, since they get paid before the second mortgage holder gets any. That's on whoever gave/authorized the second mortgage.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Carl_Smith on October 01, 2019, 02:53:27 am

I have been a sole trader and or an unemployable bum for about 20 years so I have had plenty of exposure to banks and how they treat sole traders.

In that case you probably have a better view of the situation than I do.  I just have a problem with her attitude that this is an unsolvable problem.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: maginnovision on October 01, 2019, 02:55:42 am
I actually had a friend a couple years ago who bought a house and his situation wasn't TOO much different. He made his money working on cars for people. He didn't have a proper business set up but he had a shop and regular customers. When he went to buy his house I helped him with that. The bank basically needed a record of money coming in and money going out going back 2 years. Wasn't quite as simple in the moment with lots of back and forth but that's about what it came down to. He got an FHA loan and only put down 3.5% so I really doubt she can't get a loan.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 03:25:38 am
Quote
I was thinking the exact same thing.  You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half.  But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
But...
This person can take out a second mortgage with another lender, taking loans/credit on that original 50% down, then fuck off into overspending with no way to repay any of it. The second lender may be able to put a lien against the property.

The first lender physically holds the deed, they own it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: forrestc on October 01, 2019, 04:04:45 am
The problem is not being a sole proprietor.  Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.

And not having found the right broker who can help. There are almost 5000 banks in the US, and this is a list of banks in Pennsylvania:
https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm (https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm)

I agree with finding the correct broker helps.   I finally found a local bank which makes a lot of their money with being a mortgage broker, which has helped greatly with my most recent loans.  They only make money if they can place a note with someone, so they have a LOT of options which they can sell the mortgage to once originated.

Which brings up another point - although there are 5000 banks in the US, very few actually carry their own paper.  Instead, the vast majority of them rely on being able to sell the note to someone else, which is why once you get outside "normal" your options shrink.    In the US, 90% of Mortages are either held or insured by one of the federal loan programs (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae), so the loans which are to be sold to those programs have to meet their borrowing requirements.   What you find as a result is that a large portion of lenders have a very similar set of lending requirements.   So much so that I can definitely understand why someone who is outside these requirements would feel like they can't get a loan at all.

Which comes back to the whole, yes, finding the right mortgage broker is important once you step outside the norms.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 01, 2019, 05:03:26 am
Like I commented on her video:  Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships.  You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage.  Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.

For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.

That's not Carl's point. Fran has made the assertion that she flat out does not qualify for a home loan because she is a sole proprietor.
I agree with Carl, I can't see how that fact alone can be possibly true. There must be a way to get a loan given enough deposit and income.
Fran is not looking for a commercial business space, or a business loan, she's looking for essentially a home loan (or large apartment space) for a space she can live in. The fact that she operates a sole proprietorship from the space is inconsequential.


My mom is a sole proprietor and has a mortgage, it was not easy for her to get qualified but she did. That is the only data point I have, but it is proof enough that it is possible.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tom66 on October 01, 2019, 07:57:51 am
Even if you have plenty of income.
The banks do not like self employed people who get income in tiny amounts but from many sources. Even if they have plenty of total income to service the loan.
They prefer a self employed person who gets paid all their money from doing one or two tasks.

This makes no sense to me, but that's the way they think.
Maybe they are required to investigate and document all the sources of income and can't be bothered looking over 100 separate sources.
Or maybe they don't like 100 little sources coming and going from week to week.
Yeah, it's probably less about the person proving they had plenty of income in the past, and more about the bank knowing their sources of income are static and never changing.
i dunno.
This is one reason many managing directors in the UK struggle to get mortgages, even when running £1m+ turnover businesses.
You will want to pay yourself a salary. My boss had the same issue. No one would lend him £300k to buy a house, despite business turnover being 10x that, because he was paying himself in dividends only.
He had to draw down a salary, take the mortgage, and then switch back to dividends. Cost him a bit more in tax, but made the mortgage achievable.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 01, 2019, 08:04:20 am
When the bank loans you the money, they own the property. 50% down is a no brainer. Default on payment, they get the property, they keep your 50% down. And they have to pay only for evicting you and cleaning up the property.


This shows no understanding of how banks operate legally. That is not the way things work.

In any case, most banks have no interest in executing mortgages, their interest is in having performing loans which pay their interest regularly. If the bank does not want to foreclose it does not matter if you put 90% down, they are not interested. They want to see ability to pay and meet your obligations.

Go to your local grocery store and tell them you want to leave your gold watch as collateral and come back to pay next week. They can't lose. Still, they will not accept because that is not the business they want to do. Maybe you can pawn the watch elsewhere but not at the grocery store even they might win a watch in exchange for a can of beans.

Most banks are not interested in foreclosures. It is not the business they are looking for and they try to avoid it. Arguing that they are protected is useless because it is not a business they are interested in. They will tell you to go find another lender who might be interested.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 01, 2019, 08:08:05 am
It's almost zero risk, unless you were completely hopeless at valuing properties, or the value more than halves.
Damn, I'll take that deal every day of the week, seriously, I'll go into the lending business. I'm not kidding. Anyone who wants to give me the title deed to a $200k housing asset to borrow $100k, I'll loan you the $100k no questions asked.
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 01, 2019, 08:17:42 am
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 09:01:11 am
It's almost zero risk, unless you were completely hopeless at valuing properties, or the value more than halves.
Damn, I'll take that deal every day of the week, seriously, I'll go into the lending business. I'm not kidding. Anyone who wants to give me the title deed to a $200k housing asset to borrow $100k, I'll loan you the $100k no questions asked.
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.

Nope, I'd make a killing.
If I can get a place for half the current market rate then I can make a killing reselling that. Like I said, unless you are an absolute fool and don't know the market and prices.
I'd be begging people to default on their loan instead of paying the pathetically low interest rate.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 09:11:24 am
When the bank loans you the money, they own the property. 50% down is a no brainer. Default on payment, they get the property, they keep your 50% down. And they have to pay only for evicting you and cleaning up the property.

This shows no understanding of how banks operate legally. That is not the way things work.

Of course it is, it's called foreclosure, that's why the bank keeps the legal deed to your property, they own it until you pay it off.
They can and do sell your property if you fail to repay the loan. They may not want to do that, but it happens all the time. New Jersy for example has the highest rate, one in every 600 or so.
https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/do-you-live-in-one-of-the-10-states-with-the-highest-foreclosure-rates-in-the-us/ (https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/do-you-live-in-one-of-the-10-states-with-the-highest-foreclosure-rates-in-the-us/)

Quote
In any case, most banks have no interest in executing mortgages, their interest is in having performing loans which pay their interest regularly. If the bank does not want to foreclose it does not matter if you put 90% down, they are not interested. They want to see ability to pay and meet your obligations.

Of course that is their business, but they hold the deed to the property, they own it.
What that means is that all things being equal, any bank would rather give a $500k loan on $1M property deed than a $900k loan on that same property. i.e. that $500k loan is a vastly lower risk than the $900k loan.

Quote
Most banks are not interested in foreclosures. It is not the business they are looking for and they try to avoid it. Arguing that they are protected is useless because it is not a business they are interested in. They will tell you to go find another lender who might be interested.

Sure, but that's a different argument entirely. Banks look very favorably on large deposit loans for a reason, they are lower risk.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 09:13:04 am
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.

Here in Australia it's a national sport. We have dozens of TV reality shows devoted to it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 09:21:35 am
Even if you have plenty of income.
The banks do not like self employed people who get income in tiny amounts but from many sources. Even if they have plenty of total income to service the loan.
They prefer a self employed person who gets paid all their money from doing one or two tasks.

This makes no sense to me, but that's the way they think.
Maybe they are required to investigate and document all the sources of income and can't be bothered looking over 100 separate sources.
Or maybe they don't like 100 little sources coming and going from week to week.
Yeah, it's probably less about the person proving they had plenty of income in the past, and more about the bank knowing their sources of income are static and never changing.
i dunno.
This is one reason many managing directors in the UK struggle to get mortgages, even when running £1m+ turnover businesses.
You will want to pay yourself a salary.

Salary makes no difference in Australia, if you have a controlling interest director position in a company you are deemed to be self employed, and a majority of bank will not touch you.
That's the reason I took the money out of my own home loan in order to buy my lab, I became my own bank. And it's why I've never paid off my house, I use it as a line of credit.
Ironically, most banks are happy to take your existing home and give you 80% of the value as a line of credit, but want to buy the same value home with a 20% deposit - nope.
I went through this the other year for an investment property, but luckily Mrs EEVblog has a regular job which made it more manageable. Still we had to go through a broker to find us a bank willing to give us a 2nd look because I'm "self employed".
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 09:34:57 am
Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Ysjoelfir on October 01, 2019, 09:53:35 am
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D

Finaly a legit reason to save some money for a vacation to aussieland! :D
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 01, 2019, 09:58:04 am
Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
Make sure the last part is true. I know of a few countries where it isn't.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 10:00:43 am
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
Finaly a legit reason to save some money for a vacation to aussieland! :D

I could rent out a room on AirBnB  ;D
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Electro Detective on October 01, 2019, 10:14:41 am
Jaws: "I think you'll need a bigger barbie.."

The only downside I can think of if moving the lab to a house, which btw is a great long term move  :-+

is you will lose Dumpster Diving privileges/access to corporate tosses   :( 

or, you could go nuts now/hoard overdrive and stock up with 12 months worth and wack it in storage   :)

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 01, 2019, 11:38:41 am
Quote
Most banks are not interested in foreclosures. It is not the business they are looking for and they try to avoid it. Arguing that they are protected is useless because it is not a business they are interested in. They will tell you to go find another lender who might be interested.

Sure, but that's a different argument entirely.

It's not a different argument. It's the argument I am making. It is my entire and sole argument.

If a bank is looking to sell loans that will perform and is trying to avoid loans that will result in foreclosure telling them they are protected in the case of a foreclosure is useless because that is what they are trying to avoid.

If the applicant's profile looks like they might default the bank decides it is not interested regardless of the applicant's ability to put down a substantial percentage. Another bank might be interested but many are not. Really, it's not difficult to understand.

What I don't understand is why some people feel they are entitled to tell a bank or other business how they should manage their business. You are entitled to do business with whoever you want on whatever terms you want and the rest of the world is entitled to the same privilege.

Some years ago a friend of mine got very upset when his bank cancelled his credit card. He took it very personally and was quite upset because he had perfect credit and payment record. I offered to go to the bank with him and the bank officer explained it had nothing to do with him personally; it was just that the bank needed to reduce certain activities and exposures, etc. But my friend just couldn't understand why they would cancel HIS credit card when he had a perfect record.

It serves no purpose to argue why a bank should lend you money. They have their policies and business model. If you don't like their services better try to find some other bank you like better.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 11:41:34 am
is you will lose Dumpster Diving privileges/access to corporate tosses   :( 

Nope, I'm still an owner and have the key  ;D
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 01, 2019, 11:50:55 am
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
But Dave isn't talking about flipping but lending people the money and then getting the house 'cheap' when they can't afford it. My point is that Dave is underestimating of all the hidden costs before you can sell a home for a profit. The 'flippers' have to be creative to make a profit and usually they won't touch a home which is fubar. If you are the lender you have to sell whatever junk gets thrown in your lap.

I've seen how bad this can get first hand when they foreclosed the neighbours a few houses away. First they had to haul away 3 large dumpsters of junk, then 4 weeks of repairing, cleaning and painting including filling in the DIY basement which wasn't built according to code. And these are homes build from bricks and concrete (including pilings) so wood rot, foundation problems and termites aren't an issue.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 01, 2019, 01:08:31 pm
The first lender physically holds the deed, they own it.

If I may digress on this topic for a moment, the deed and who holds it are pretty much a "bill of goods", quite literally.

The concept of mortgage, that is a loan secured by real estate, exists pretty much in every western nation I know. But the old English system of deeds and chain of title is being replaced gradually by a system of registry. In nations like France and Spain there never really was a deed and chain of title system and it always was a registry system. Whoever appears in the registry as the owner is the owner and all interests, liens, etc. need to be registered to be enforceable.

Australia, with Torrens, was one of the first Anglo countries to switch to a registry system.

In a registry system the registered owner of record is the owner for legal purposes. A lien or mortgage holder will have that interest recorded but they are not the owner. Rights on real property take precedence by date of recordation, not by date of creation.

What matters with a deed is that it is recorded. After that you can frame it and hang it in your bathroom if you like.

https://epilawg.com/2012/08/torrens-vs-abstract-property-whats-the-difference/ (https://epilawg.com/2012/08/torrens-vs-abstract-property-whats-the-difference/)
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/planning-and-property/certificates-of-title/torrens-titles (https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/planning-and-property/certificates-of-title/torrens-titles)
https://www.reisa.com.au/publicinfo/general-tips-and-traps/torrens-title-explained (https://www.reisa.com.au/publicinfo/general-tips-and-traps/torrens-title-explained)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrens_title (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrens_title)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: ebastler on October 01, 2019, 01:39:41 pm
is you will lose Dumpster Diving privileges/access to corporate tosses   :( 
Nope, I'm still an owner and have the key  ;D

Umm, didn't you mention "12 months left on the current lease"?
Are you owning or renting the current lab? (Just curious...)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 01:45:47 pm
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
But Dave isn't talking about flipping but lending people the money and then getting the house 'cheap' when they can't afford it. My point is that Dave is underestimating of all the hidden costs before you can sell a home for a profit.

My entire point is that the bigger your deposit the more likely you are to find a willing lender. I've experienced this first hand several times.
If Fran went to a broker with say $100k cash and said she wanted to buy a $200k property, that broker has more to work with than if she rocks up with only $20k.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 01:48:54 pm
Umm, didn't you mention "12 months left on the current lease"?
Are you owning or renting the current lab? (Just curious...)

I own my old lab. It's currently rented to a bunch of lawyers I found via Gumtree.
The new lab is rented, both are in the same complex and share the same garbage room.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Nusa on October 01, 2019, 05:30:34 pm
Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.

Or you could stumble across a property the family actually likes for living in, and turn your old house into a lab.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 01, 2019, 05:51:01 pm
Or you could stumble across a property the family actually likes for living in, and turn your old house into a lab.

Or get a house on enough property to build a lab out back, or a bigger house with a full basement and build it down there. Because why commute somewhere when you can have your office right in your own back yard?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: dr.diesel on October 01, 2019, 06:01:56 pm
Or get a house on enough property to build a lab out back, or a bigger house with a full basement and build it down there. Because why commute somewhere when you can have your office right in your own back yard?

I bought a rental property two years ago with a 1100sq ft house and a 3000sq ft shop with office for $95K on 3 acres.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 01, 2019, 06:26:38 pm
Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
If you can get the loan approved and the interest rate fixed for the entire period it seems like a good deal. Renting is expensive. I'd be wary of zoning laws though and perhaps you may change your mind and do a higher volumes. Neighbours may start to complain due to traffic. Also see if big trucks have easy access.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: jancumps on October 01, 2019, 06:48:25 pm
I bought a house with virtually no money on the bank - but a steady income.
Loaned 110% of the value. Interest about 6% (early 90s), 20 years. The amount I had to pay every month was comparable to renting a place.
The house was under hypotec (deed? I don't know the English term) by the bank until the very last day of the mortgage - meaning they could sell it if I failed two payments, even if in the 20st year when I virtually payd everything back.

During the years, I used that hypotec to get new loans from the same bank. It means that you can take out money at the same interest rate. The payments go up but the duration stays the same.
But a payment that hurt in the early 90s (approx. 600 euro) was almost neglectable in the 2000s, when I worked longer and both my partner and I earned more.


So as long as the interest rate on my house was lower than the going rate for a financial loan, I've been using it as a vehicle to loan and pay off money when it made sense.

 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 01, 2019, 07:22:25 pm
I bought a house with virtually no money on the bank - but a steady income.
Loaned 110% of the value. Interest about 6% (early 90s), 20 years. The amount I had to pay every month was comparable to renting a place.
The house was under hypotec (deed? I don't know the English term) by the bank until the very last day of the mortgage - meaning they could sell it if I failed two payments, even if in the 20st year when I virtually payd everything back.

During the years, I used that hypotec to get new loans from the same bank. It means that you can take out money at the same interest rate. The payments go up but the duration stays the same.
But a payment that hurt in the early 90s (approx. 600 euro) was almost neglectable in the 2000s, when I worked longer and both my partner and I earned more.


So as long as the interest rate on my house was lower than the going rate for a financial loan, I've been using it as a vehicle to loan and pay off money when it made sense.

at the moment the interest on a mortgage is silly low, here you can get 15 years fixed 0.00% or 30 years fixed 0.50% so it is much cheaper than renting, but since the last financial crisis you can't borrow more than ~4x your annual income


Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: dnwheeler on October 01, 2019, 07:23:40 pm
In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.

The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

The reason the bank wants a big down payment isn't so they get more money in a foreclosure and sale, it is to ensure that if they have to go through that process that will be able to sell the property quickly and for enough money to cover the debt. They also don't want to go through this process, so they want the borrower to be incentivized to make their payments (or sell the property themselves to pay off the debt).

The primary issue with self-employed borrowers is the bank needs to see consistent income for many months (typically 2 years). There has to be some assurance that the borrower will still be able to make the payments for the next 3-4 years (at which point, enough equity has been built up to mitigate most of the risk). Many sole proprietors tend to co-mingle their personal and business accounts (or simply don't keep business accounting records), or try to structure their income in such a way as to show little to no income (by writing off everything, typically for tax purposes). Unfortunately, you can't tell the IRS that you only make $10,000/yr and then try to tell a bank that you really make $100,000/yr. You also can't say I make $10,000/mo, if you can't demonstrate (with documentary evidence) that you actually receive (personally, as payroll income or cash taken out of the business, properly documented and taxed) this amount every month from a source that will continue at that rate indefinitely.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 01, 2019, 07:32:42 pm
The house was under hypotec (deed? I don't know the English term) by the bank until the very last day of the mortgage

German Hypothek is mortgage. A loan secured by real property.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: jancumps on October 01, 2019, 07:33:04 pm
Quote
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

I think in reality it's the same. I used the word deed but lien may be the correct English term.

The bank does not own the property, but they can force a sale if you fail to pay back. Once the bidded price is higher then your outstanding costs and additional legal fees and interests read:never), you get the rest of the mony.
So the bank can not make a  gain. It stops when they have all their losses and costs back.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 01, 2019, 07:38:54 pm
In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.

The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 01, 2019, 07:57:27 pm
Quote
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

I think in reality it's the same. I used the word deed but lien may be the correct English term.

The bank does not own the property, but they can force a sale if you fail to pay back. Once the bidded price is higher then your outstanding costs and additional legal fees and interests read:never), you get the rest of the mony.
So the bank can not make a  gain. It stops when they have all their losses and costs back.
That could depend on local law.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: jancumps on October 01, 2019, 08:00:59 pm
Is it different in The Netherlands when you fail to pay back a mortgage?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: dnwheeler on October 01, 2019, 08:07:01 pm
I think in reality it's the same. I used the word deed but lien may be the correct English term.

Not quite. The deed is the legal statement of ownership - that is typically in the name of the buyer. A lien is an "encumbrance" on the property. Basically, it prevents the owner from selling the property until the lien is removed. Even a carpenter remodeling a kitchen can get a lien on the property if the work isn't paid for.

More dry technical details:

Note that some states allow the use of a "Deed of Trust" instead of a mortgage. This then effectively "splits" the ownership, where the buyer holds the "equitable title" and the lender holds the "legal title".

The lien doesn't give the bank the right to sell the property. First, they must go through the courts to take ownership of the property through a foreclosure - this typically must be approved by a judge (depending on state law) and can be contested. Only after the foreclosure is complete, does the bank own the property and can proceed to sell it. Some banks will simply "sit" on a house if the market is down (although the ongoing maintenance costs to the bank add up). During the U.S. housing crisis, some banks were even letting people live in their foreclosed property for free as long as they maintained it, likewise many foreclosures were delayed indefinitely because the value of the house was below the amount due, so there was no benefit for the bank to take possession. It is also possible for the homeowner to purchase the property back from the bank after foreclosure, possibly for less than the amount owed (by being the high bidder at a real estate auction).

Some states (including California and Texas) allow for "power of sale" clauses which, upon default, permit the lender to sell the property even though they don't own it. They are essentially forcing the sale on behalf of the owner to satisfy the lien(s).
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: jancumps on October 01, 2019, 08:18:06 pm
Quote
Not quite. The deed is the legal statement of ownership - that is typically in the name of the buyer. A lien is an "encumbrance" on the property. Basically, it prevents the owner from selling the property until the lien is removed.
Yes, that Lien is what I wanted to say. I have the deed, the bank has the lien.
Not a native English speaker.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 01, 2019, 09:34:11 pm
Is it different in The Netherlands when you fail to pay back a mortgage?
No but it may be different in the US and other countries based on the 'English' law system.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 10:53:59 pm
The reason the bank wants a big down payment isn't so they get more money in a foreclosure and sale, it is to ensure that if they have to go through that process that will be able to sell the property quickly and for enough money to cover the debt. They also don't want to go through this process, so they want the borrower to be incentivized to make their payments (or sell the property themselves to pay off the debt).

Correct. I was not suggesting otherwise, the banks aren't in the foreclosure business, but it's a thing they have to deal with and factor in.
Bigger deposit = lower risk = better chance of getting a loan. It's a part of their risk formula.

Quote
The primary issue with self-employed borrowers is the bank needs to see consistent income for many months (typically 2 years). There has to be some assurance that the borrower will still be able to make the payments for the next 3-4 years (at which point, enough equity has been built up to mitigate most of the risk). Many sole proprietors tend to co-mingle their personal and business accounts (or simply don't keep business accounting records), or try to structure their income in such a way as to show little to no income (by writing off everything, typically for tax purposes). Unfortunately, you can't tell the IRS that you only make $10,000/yr and then try to tell a bank that you really make $100,000/yr. You also can't say I make $10,000/mo, if you can't demonstrate (with documentary evidence) that you actually receive (personally, as payroll income or cash taken out of the business, properly documented and taxed) this amount every month from a source that will continue at that rate indefinitely.

This is Fran's big problem, but I think she can work her way out of this issue.
Incorporate a company, get seriously back into Frantone where she has brand recognition, and make that the mainstay income source. FranLab income isn't going to cut it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 01, 2019, 11:04:23 pm
In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.

The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.

Here legally the bank does not have to go through the court system to repossess and sell your house. But for home owners they usually do that so that it gives a sheriff the power to come around and legally change the locks and physically evict you. They don't legally have to though, they can in theory just sell the house and have the new owner deal with throwing you out.
If the house is rented then the bank can take the repayments without a court order. Of course you can contest this in court and make them go through that process if you have the money to do that. But if you had that money you would have just repayed the loan.
Basically, the bank controls title on your home and can legally operate on the title without court order. In theory they could even legally do that whilst you are still repaying the loan, and it would be up to you to then sue them for breach of contract or some such.
https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-resources/mortgage-stress-handbook/3.-can-the-lender-take-my-house-what-is-the-process (https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-resources/mortgage-stress-handbook/3.-can-the-lender-take-my-house-what-is-the-process)

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 01, 2019, 11:15:36 pm
In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.

The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.


Ultimately I would say it doesn't really matter to the person buying the house. You get approved for a mortgage, you keep up on your payments and eventually own the property outright. If you fall far enough behind on the payments your loan can get foreclosed and the property is taken away, eventually to be sold.

The area where a lot of people could benefit is understanding the advantages of paying off excess principal faster than required. As soon as I earned enough to afford it I have paid a couple hundred bucks extra each month toward the principal and ultimately it is chopping off a significant amount and resulting in a very substantial savings. I found an online calculator years back and ran the numbers experimenting with different amounts of excess principal to pay and settled on a value where the benefit of paying more was starting to plateau.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 02, 2019, 11:14:44 am
The area where a lot of people could benefit is understanding the advantages of paying off excess principal faster than required. As soon as I earned enough to afford it I have paid a couple hundred bucks extra each month toward the principal and ultimately it is chopping off a significant amount and resulting in a very substantial savings. I found an online calculator years back and ran the numbers experimenting with different amounts of excess principal to pay and settled on a value where the benefit of paying more was starting to plateau.

Yep, it makes a HUGE life changing difference down the track.
Not only in reduced compounded interest, but in terms of forced saving and having equity you can pull out later.
Like I said before, I bought my own lab with zero approval required from anyone, and zero paperwork. I am my own bank. I simply took out the money stored in the home loan, and then payed off a commercial property at low home loan interest rates.
For those who don't know, if you think it's often hard getting a home loan, try getting a commercial property loan. At best (here in oz anyway), you need a 40% deposit and the interest rates are double home loan rates.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rsjsouza on October 02, 2019, 04:00:35 pm
For those who don't know, if you think it's often hard getting a home loan, try getting a commercial property loan. At best (here in oz anyway), you need a 40% deposit and the interest rates are double home loan rates.
When we moved houses, the year was 2010 and the banks were very shy in lending money without a minimum of 20% down payment, percentage of income, mandatory escrow* and other things. We were able to workaround these requirements and get the lowest rate by giving a down payment of about 40% of the total value. This was high enough that the bank was comfortable in removing the requirements and low enough that the bank would still make good profit. Above 60% down payment and the interest rate would start to increase again.

*For foreigners: escrow is when the money to pay taxes is added to every monthly payment. This is supposed to benefit the loaner, as he/she don't get a massive impact at the beginning of the year when the tax has to be paid. Since we are very responsible with money, we don't like this as the money generates zero interest for us loaners while the bank withholds this money scot-free.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 02, 2019, 04:42:57 pm
In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.

The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.

Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.


Ultimately I would say it doesn't really matter to the person buying the house. You get approved for a mortgage, you keep up on your payments and eventually own the property outright. If you fall far enough behind on the payments your loan can get foreclosed and the property is taken away, eventually to be sold.

The area where a lot of people could benefit is understanding the advantages of paying off excess principal faster than required. As soon as I earned enough to afford it I have paid a couple hundred bucks extra each month toward the principal and ultimately it is chopping off a significant amount and resulting in a very substantial savings. I found an online calculator years back and ran the numbers experimenting with different amounts of excess principal to pay and settled on a value where the benefit of paying more was starting to plateau.

maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tooki on October 02, 2019, 05:34:12 pm
maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
In USA you definitely can make extra payments on a mortgage, though it's important to specify that one wants it applied to the principal and not the interest, otherwise the bank will apply it as is most advantageous for them, not for you! :P Doing so does not, however, delay or replace any of the regular scheduled mortgage payments due. (This has caught many people off guard, who sent in payments early, but without the proper payment slip, resulting in "missed" payments despite actually having paid early.) This is different from paying off the whole mortgage early in one transaction, which does often involve a fee of some sort.

The details of course vary by the terms in the mortgage contract.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 02, 2019, 08:07:58 pm
maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
In USA you definitely can make extra payments on a mortgage, though it's important to specify that one wants it applied to the principal and not the interest, otherwise the bank will apply it as is most advantageous for them, not for you! :P Doing so does not, however, delay or replace any of the regular scheduled mortgage payments due. (This has caught many people off guard, who sent in payments early, but without the proper payment slip, resulting in "missed" payments despite actually having paid early.) This is different from paying off the whole mortgage early in one transaction, which does often involve a fee of some sort.

The details of course vary by the terms in the mortgage contract.

here a the bank is only doing the paperwork, mortgages are from separate institutions that does nothing else
but real estate mortgage bonds, I think the fee for paying extra is ~$100

but at the moment you where you can get fixed interest rates at close to 0% so does it really make sense to
pay off faster ?

 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rrinker on October 02, 2019, 08:34:08 pm
 I bought a house suitable to my needs - not "the biggest house the bank said I could afford based on my income". Doing so has allowed me to pay extra principal every month, and getting me under an 80% loan to value figure just over 5 years in to a 30 year mortgage (straight calculation based on the original amount borrowed - I also put 10% down at time of purchase). This is allowing me to remove the $120/mo cost of mortgage insurance, but since I am more than comfortable with my payment as is, rather than take a reduction in payment, I will keep paying the same and add that additional $120 to the principal payment. I don;t want to be paying a mortgage after I retire, I want to have this paid off. Of course - in the US, that STILL doesn't mean I own my home - if I fail to pay my taxes, they can take my home. Yup, fail to pay a tax of $5000 and they can take a house currently worth about $240k. As in - I get nothing, kicked out to the streets. This is where a lot of the flippers get their properties, from tax auctions, all the selling party is looking to get is the taxes owed plus auction fees, so you have extravagant properties selling for pennies on the dollar. Of course, it IS an auction so if there is much competition, the price could go way up.

 What Dave wants to do in regards to buying a house and making that the new EEVBlog Lab - that wouldn't work in most US communities due to zoning laws. No one generally says anything if you use a spare bedroom as an office and run a consulting business out of your house, or sell baskets or something as a side line. But unless the zoning allows commercial use of the property, you can't set up a full fledged business, even if the only difference is you might get a few more delivery trucks compared to the average person (yeah, so I order a lot from Amazon - big deal). Even if there is no noise, smells (well, so much for blowing up capacitors...) or constant coming and going disturbing the neighbors, it's simply not allowed in an area zoned residential.

 As for Fran's situation, without the verifiable income, she's out of luck. ANd many banks have limits on how much of your down payment can come from gifts rather than directly from your own savings. You will often need to produce documentation proving it truly is a gift, even from family members, and not a loan you are expected to pay back. This generally applies to significant sums - say your parents gift you $10k towards a down payment, most banks will require a signed letter from your parents stating that this is a gift, free and clear of an obligation.

 And I've said it before, In the city limits of Philadelphia is about the worst possible place to live. There is an extra sales tax above the state one. There is an extra income tax above the state one. There are other nearby places to live that you can also manage without a car, that do not have these extra taxes. There are also plenty of places in this state where no one will care about LGBTQ status. There are for sure places she would NOT want to live in this state, but downtown Philadelphia is NOT the only 'safe' place. Good example, not that housing there is cheap, for sure, but I'm willing to bet she'd find even MORE acceptance in New Hope, just a short distance north of Philadelphia. None of the extra taxes, but hosuing costs there are quite high, so it's not ideal across the board, but on the lifestyle issue, it probably doesn't get much better.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 02, 2019, 10:51:36 pm
maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
In USA you definitely can make extra payments on a mortgage, though it's important to specify that one wants it applied to the principal and not the interest, otherwise the bank will apply it as is most advantageous for them, not for you! :P Doing so does not, however, delay or replace any of the regular scheduled mortgage payments due. (This has caught many people off guard, who sent in payments early, but without the proper payment slip, resulting in "missed" payments despite actually having paid early.) This is different from paying off the whole mortgage early in one transaction, which does often involve a fee of some sort.

The details of course vary by the terms in the mortgage contract.

here a the bank is only doing the paperwork, mortgages are from separate institutions that does nothing else
but real estate mortgage bonds, I think the fee for paying extra is ~$100

but at the moment you where you can get fixed interest rates at close to 0% so does it really make sense to
pay off faster ?

I think my interest rate is 3.28%, it's very low but non-zero and when the principal is several hundred thousand dollars it doesn't take a very high percentage to add up to real money. Even paying extra I'm pretty sure I will ultimately pay more for interest than I do for the house.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: beanflying on October 02, 2019, 11:13:21 pm
And we are now just a touch off topic  ::)

Domestic housing loans to wage earners have little to ZERO relevance to the sole trader / self elmployed person getting a loan and in particular buying commercial property.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 12:11:21 am
maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals

Here in Australia most loans will have one of two options, or both:
1) An "offset account" that is a bank account you put money into, the balance of which is subtracted from the loan remaining amount. So if your pay goes into this account you automatically reduce your interest. And you pay your bills and live your life using this transaction account.
2) A "redraw facility" lets you take out extra money you have payed into your loan account. e.g. if your repayments are $1000/month and you pay $2000/month, in a year you'll have $14,000 you can redraw from your loan to use for whatever you want. I used this to buy my old lab outright. of course your principle has gone down if you withdraw it so your interest goes back up accordingly.

As for "line of credit" type loans. Let's say you own your home, you set up a line of credit loan, on say a $1M house they will give you an account with $800k in it you can use for anything you want. if you don't take the money out, you don't pay any interest and it just sits there like an $800k bank balance.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 12:19:00 am
Domestic housing loans to wage earners have little to ZERO relevance to the sole trader / self elmployed person getting a loan and in particular buying commercial property.

I don't believe Fran is buying a commercial property, I believe it's just a big residential apartment. I stand to be corrected though.
You usually can't live in a commercial property.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 12:23:11 am
but at the moment you where you can get fixed interest rates at close to 0% so does it really make sense to pay off faster ?

In theory, no, but in practice yes, because it forces you to save instead of pissing your money away like most people end up doing.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: edavid on October 03, 2019, 01:16:04 am
Here in Australia most loans will have one of two options, or both:
1) An "offset account" that is a bank account you put money into, the balance of which is subtracted from the loan remaining amount. So if your pay goes into this account you automatically reduce your interest. And you pay your bills and live your life using this transaction account.
2) A "redraw facility" lets you take out extra money you have payed into your loan account. e.g. if your repayments are $1000/month and you pay $2000/month, in a year you'll have $14,000 you can redraw from your loan to use for whatever you want. I used this to buy my old lab outright. of course your principle has gone down if you withdraw it so your interest goes back up accordingly.

As for "line of credit" type loans. Let's say you own your home, you set up a line of credit loan, on say a $1M house they will give you an account with $800k in it you can use for anything you want. if you don't take the money out, you don't pay any interest and it just sits there like an $800k bank balance.

We don't have those options (offset or redraw) in the US.  If you pay down your mortgage, you lose the optionality.  We do have "HELOCs", but they are much more expensive than first mortgages.

I don't believe Fran is buying a commercial property, I believe it's just a big residential apartment. I stand to be corrected though.
You usually can't live in a commercial property.

You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
In practice, you can get away with either.
(There are also properties that are legal live/work.)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bud on October 03, 2019, 01:37:34 am
With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: TheSteve on October 03, 2019, 01:42:29 am
With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .

Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 03, 2019, 01:43:43 am
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Siwastaja on October 03, 2019, 06:42:35 am
You usually can't live in a commercial property.

I do, have been for 6 years. Officially homeless. No issues whatsoever. I need a "lab", and I need to live; and it's easier to do the lab / business thing in a commercial/industrial setting. This way, I get rid of half of the expenses. Here, we don't have any specific law that actually forbids it, it's just something people seem to assume and fear of doing. A key to avoid unwanted discussions or actions is to actually have commercial things going on (like me, or Fran, do). No law prevents you from working all night at your workplace. No law prevents you from having a sofa or bed at your workplace, or adding a shower. No law prevents you from taking a short nap while working. Quite the opposite, if a trendy Silicon Valley company implemented this, there would be articles of how well they take care of their workers.

Finally, no law prevents you from giving your "workplace" address to everyone, including authorities, so you get all the official mail. Homeless people (including those who really live on the streets) need to have an address as well, it's a normal procedure to come up with something.

It's just that if it becomes obvious that you are misusing a commercial property to live in, and not using it for the intended purpose, someone may get upset, and depending on legislation and actual contracts, may have leverage for actions. This is easily avoided by using it for the intended purpose and keeping low profile about the fact that your "naps" are 8 hours, not 30 minutes. This is easy, because it's your private area.

No one, including my landlord (I'm renting) or fire inspectors, have never had anything to say about this. They can clearly see I "quite" live here, but they clearly don't see it as an apartment, because the business + hobby is predominant.

And as a plus, I can drive a car in my living room.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 06:53:57 am
I do, have been for 6 years. Officially homeless. No issues whatsoever. I need a "lab", and I need to live; this way, I get rid of half of the expenses. Here, we don't have any specific law that actually forbids it, it's just something people seem to assume and fear of doing.

Not so here. Every commercial office complex I have seen has a clause in the strata law that forbids living on the premises.
Of course if Mrs EEVblog booted me out I'll be conveniently working really late nights at the lab for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 06:57:52 am
With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?

Because she refuses to even consider moving out of a certain part of Philly, and she has given up trying to get a loan.
But she also had limited time previously so had to find something quick. So even if she wanted to buy a place, that takes more time and effort.
After moving into the new space she only had $14,270 left from the GoFundMe, and said that will last another 8 months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XpsuUPgY6k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XpsuUPgY6k)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on October 03, 2019, 07:22:57 am
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission for extensions soley used for business, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 07:36:03 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY)

Watching that again she said that the her new lab was for sale before, she could have bought it, and wanted to, but couldn't get the loan.
Now she seems surprised it's going up for sale?
Maybe I missed a video and it's not the same place she's talking about?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: 2N3055 on October 03, 2019, 07:52:40 am
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.

In Croatia, there is even category of sole proprietor called something like "silent business" that legally allows just that. Electronics, computer programing, even lawyers and such are in that category.
You make a home office and run business from there.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Siwastaja on October 03, 2019, 12:43:11 pm
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.

In Croatia, there is even category of sole proprietor called something like "silent business" that legally allows just that. Electronics, computer programing, even lawyers and such are in that category.
You make a home office and run business from there.

Here, you can tax deduct up to 50% of your rent (probably your loan payments as well, wasn't relevant for me at the time) if you work as a sole proprietor in your home and can show (for example, using a floor plan and photographs) that said percentage is used to run the business.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: nctnico on October 03, 2019, 12:53:07 pm
With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?
Because she refuses to even consider moving out of a certain part of Philly, and she has given up trying to get a loan.
But she also had limited time previously so had to find something quick. So even if she wanted to buy a place, that takes more time and effort.
After moving into the new space she only had $14,270 left from the GoFundMe, and said that will last another 8 months.
If that is the case then she has bigger issues: not enough income. She should be getting more money in the bank, not less. I fear this situation isn't going to end well.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: BravoV on October 03, 2019, 01:30:52 pm
With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?

Because she refuses to even consider moving out of a certain part of Philly, and she has given up trying to get a loan.
But she also had limited time previously so had to find something quick. So even if she wanted to buy a place, that takes more time and effort.
After moving into the new space she only had $14,270 left from the GoFundMe, and said that will last another 8 months.

Maybe she is just trying to proof that actually, beggars can be a choosers.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NivagSwerdna on October 03, 2019, 02:39:10 pm
My 2c worth...
The elephant in the room is that FranLab is not a going concern. 
The April video explained that of the $44K donated that after expenses that the ongoing costs were only 63% funded.
i.e. the spare cash from the donations would be burnt in 8 months and here we are approx 8 months later.
Indeed the move has made things much worse than they were... Previously Fran said she was 100% funded in the old space but now is maintaining storage, sewing and lab areas so cost has increased and income hasn't... A recipe for going bust.
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
As Dave pointed out recently the number of 100k sub channels has hugely increased so the FranLab channel in itself looks more like an indulgence rather than a way of life.
Maybe a brutal downsizing is required and maybe realise some $ from the stuff in storage.
Either that .. or find a sugar daddy Patreon!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 03, 2019, 03:23:44 pm
Either that .. or find a sugar daddy Patreon!

There's a website for that: https://www.seeking.com (https://www.seeking.com)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Howardlong on October 03, 2019, 03:48:27 pm
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission for extensions soley used for business, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.

Not only is it fine, it's frequently positively encouraged, in terms of family friendly rights, mandated flexible working and limiting environmental impact. As a business, you also claim back a portion of your mortgage repayments or rent on your tax based on the proportion of the area used for your business.

It is possible to come unstuck if you're in breach of lease or planning terms. In practice, any action is extremely unlikely to be taken as long as you make efforts to get on with your neighbours, keep your head down, and don't generally accept visitors, or else the curtain twitchers and self-appointed parking wardens will start complaining. I have at least one or two daily visits from one or other logistics firms, which is frankly not a million miles away from some purely domestic residential units nowadays.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: edavid on October 03, 2019, 05:06:48 pm
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?

We are talking about a hypothetical situation of applying for a mortgage to buy such a space.  The mortgage lender would know about it when she applied for a loan based on the income she would be getting from operating the business in that space.  They probably would not go for that.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 11:04:50 pm
It is possible to come unstuck if you're in breach of lease or planning terms.

Yes, even just for basic lab stuff even. I had to make sure that the lessor understood what I'd be doing in the lab, and got that added to the lease. Soldering, chemicals etc. Because that's fairly unique in an office complex building that is used to having just lawyers, accountants, and realestate agents etc. And an "engineering" firm like I have across the corridor is thought of as a bunch of engineers with big screens, calculators, and an A0 plotter.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 03, 2019, 11:08:26 pm
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?

Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 03, 2019, 11:21:46 pm
I think the market for old fashioned analog effects has dramatically reduced in favor of digital effects, especially as older musicians start to retire.

Maybe once she realizes there is no choice but to move to a cheaper area will she do so.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 03, 2019, 11:35:00 pm
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission for extensions soley used for business, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.

Not only is it fine, it's frequently positively encouraged, in terms of family friendly rights, mandated flexible working and limiting environmental impact. As a business, you also claim back a portion of your mortgage repayments or rent on your tax based on the proportion of the area used for your business.

how does that work with tax? here gains when selling a home you have lived in is tax free. If you jump through all the hoops to claim back a portion of your mortgage repayments I'm sure that will also mean being taxed on part of the gains when selling
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: soldar on October 03, 2019, 11:37:37 pm
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?


I believe forum member Calambres (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=156976) specializes in this type of thing.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: langwadt on October 03, 2019, 11:38:56 pm
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property  :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.

In Croatia, there is even category of sole proprietor called something like "silent business" that legally allows just that. Electronics, computer programing, even lawyers and such are in that category.
You make a home office and run business from there.

here called usually a "liberal profession", providing services but not producing or selling goods
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bassman59 on October 03, 2019, 11:52:41 pm
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
House-flipping is a sport here in the US. "Investors" will buy properties in foreclosure, deal with the issues and make repairs as necessary, and put in new cabinets and such. Then six months to a year later they'll put the house back on the market at market price, and they can make a tidy profit. The trick, of course, is to not overextend yourself; too many flippers have gone under when market conditions weren't what they had hoped for when the houses were put back on the market. Some flippers at that point may choose to just rent out the houses until the market improves.

The main thing a flipper needs is access to cash to buy the properties. You have to have money to borrow money, and thus to make money. Some flippers will take equity out of a home they own and use it as a down payment on an investment property/house to flip. It is these people who get screwed in a downturn, as they now have two mortgages to pay.

Another thing about the flippers: a lot of the work they do on the properties is purely cosmetic. Fresh paint, new floors, new cabinets, all of which is the cheapest possible and the sort of things a homeowner who intends to stay in a home would never choose.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: james_s on October 03, 2019, 11:58:29 pm
That was one of the big draws to me when I bought my house. It was looking a little tired but it was almost all original and unmolested. I loathe the cheap flipper remodel jobs where they try to update an old house to make it appear modern. It almost always ends up crappy, I'd much rather have original. Those remodel jobs always seem to involve knocking out walls to make one huge room out of the kitchen, dining and living spaces. I hate that, walls exist for a reason, to divide up areas used for different purposes so they can be used simultaneously. Then there is the fact that as mentioned everything is the cheapest of the cheap crap available.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: John B on October 04, 2019, 12:21:19 am
I think the market for old fashioned analog effects has dramatically reduced in favor of digital effects, especially as older musicians start to retire.

Not really. There's a pretty significant dichotomy between players who use digital multi-effects and old school analogue. I'm not going to put it in the same category as audiophile purchasing habits, but there are players who will spend $200 on a single pedal that does limited tone shaping. Sometimes it's the retro effect, other times it happens to be a particular pedal that does just the right tone shaping.

I just wouldn't rely on that market for a business. Maybe a supplementary side business at a residential location, but I wouldn't take out a loan based on that model!
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2019, 08:43:16 am
You usually can't live in a commercial property.

I do, have been for 6 years. Officially homeless. ..................

No one, including my landlord (I'm renting) or fire inspectors, have never had anything to say about this. They can clearly see I "quite" live here, but they clearly don't see it as an apartment, because the business + hobby is predominant.

And as a plus, I can drive a car in my living room.
Lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.

Look at it from their potential POV:
Premises in use 24/365 and the additional wear and tear that creates.
Higher insurance risk.
Greater/faster property depreciation/higher maintenance.

Have you ever considered if the landlord isn't factoring into the lease these additional costs imposed upon them from live-in commercial tenants then they're subsidizing your lifestyle ?

A buddy that has commercial tenants won't allow such live-in tenancy agreements other than 12hr/6 day occupancy.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rjp on October 04, 2019, 08:49:24 am
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?

Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?

the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead  of  clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.




Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: beanflying on October 04, 2019, 08:51:19 am
Living in commercial properties varies vastly. Some of the normal exceptions are 'caretakers' and 'security' which will get you around the red tape in some cases. Giving advice of what you have got away with or seen gotten away with and the actual local rules may be two very different things. Australian rules vary by state for example and then on top of that local councils can also impose additional layers of  :bullshit:
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 04, 2019, 09:09:49 am
Australian rules vary by state for example and then on top of that local councils can also impose additional layers of  :bullshit:

And then you have the corporate strata conditions where that restriction is common. It's hard to enforce that, especially if an owner does it, but it's there and the corporate body can take legal action if needed.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: SiliconWizard on October 04, 2019, 01:47:40 pm
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?

There is, but it has become a very niche market. I don't know enough about Frantone to have an opinion here. But all I can say is that these days, you have to have some kind of "high-end" offering to pull that off. And you have to put a lot of effort in marketing to have a chance to sell enough to make a living out of it.

Again I don't know Frantone much, but if she wants to make this more profitable, she'd probably have to re-think her product line a bit and offer new things. Also make the activity a bit more diverse. For instance, design guitar amps as well, offer some kind of additional service, etc. And of course, ADVERTISE! I think a brand new and modernized web site would be in order as well.

Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 04, 2019, 02:03:43 pm
Again I don't know Frantone much, but if she wants to make this more profitable, she'd probably have to re-think her product line a bit and offer new things. Also make the activity a bit more diverse. For nstance, design guitar amps as well, offer some kind of additional service, etc. And of course, ADVERTISE! I think a brand new and modernized web site would be in order as well.

I'm sure a viewer with web experience could help with that.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 09:14:27 pm
I still don't get why she needs that much space. I don't get why Dave needs that much space, lol. After you're done reviewing your o-scopes, you can get rid of 29 of them and just keep the 2 you use, right?

I have seen Fran use a small lathe. I'm sure she has a drill press and some other basic tools. What the heck do you need a commercial property for to use such equipment? Garage. Fran, look it up. I bet RX8 has a higher amount of more used and useful equipment in his garage. Collin Furze is building hoverbikes and hydralic Edwards scissor hands every two weeks, and getting million of subscribers, and he does this out of his garage. My Carlson's Lab seems to be a room the size of my bedroom closet filled oscilloscopes and with room for only a chair, his head, and about 1 square foot of bench space. I've never seen a Fran video on anything that couldn't be done out of a bedroom, not counting making a small wooden housing for a radio, smaller than a volleyball.

Perhaps Fran wants her Youtube channel to support her lifestyle. But her lifestyle is maybe not necessary in order to produce the content she currently makes. Well, take that back. Her lifestyle and personal issues are increasingly = to her content.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Bassman59 on October 04, 2019, 11:53:21 pm
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?

Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?

the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead  of  clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.

Musicians who prefer limited-scope pedals rather than a does-it-all digital box like how they have immediate access to everything during performance. The digital boxes work quite well if you spend the time to program them in advance and have your set list all sorted, but if you get into any sort of improvisation then nothing beats having those knobs at your feet.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: windsmurf on October 05, 2019, 12:47:12 am
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?

Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?

the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead  of  clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.

Musicians who prefer limited-scope pedals rather than a does-it-all digital box like how they have immediate access to everything during performance. The digital boxes work quite well if you spend the time to program them in advance and have your set list all sorted, but if you get into any sort of improvisation then nothing beats having those knobs at your feet.

Yes I agree. 
The problem is that electric guitar/bass (and related item) sales have been declining for a long time now.
There's a ton of boutique pedal effects makers chasing this shrinking market, not to mention a flood of cheap effects coming in from China, as was mentioned. 
https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/ (https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/)



 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rjp on October 05, 2019, 01:40:50 am
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?

Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?

the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead  of  clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.

Musicians who prefer limited-scope pedals rather than a does-it-all digital box like how they have immediate access to everything during performance. The digital boxes work quite well if you spend the time to program them in advance and have your set list all sorted, but if you get into any sort of improvisation then nothing beats having those knobs at your feet.

Yes I agree. 
The problem is that electric guitar/bass (and related item) sales have been declining for a long time now.
There's a ton of boutique pedal effects makers chasing this shrinking market, not to mention a flood of cheap effects coming in from China, as was mentioned. 
https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/ (https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/)

On top of all this,  most of these classic "tone" pedals are fully documented and reversed engineered  and are quite simple to build as hobby projects for anyone with a soldering iron and a few bucks. The pedal world is full of Audio Woo (tm) and much drama is made of  transistors and an op amp brands.

eg: Frans big muff type pedals  https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic

Hers costs $300 ish,  Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.

Personally, I used to have a tube amp and a pedal board of unique pedals, it does  sound *better* than a digital modelling board in a one to one analysis however the moment you have to mic up the amp, or play in a musically dead room, or carry that crap around, that small difference in sound quality becomes much harder to hear.
 
As for creativity Im finding the digital one more creative because it has such a big range of virtual pedals Id never bother buying in boutique form.

 
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: technix on October 05, 2019, 02:23:12 am
On top of all this,  most of these classic "tone" pedals are fully documented and reversed engineered  and are quite simple to build as hobby projects for anyone with a soldering iron and a few bucks. The pedal world is full of Audio Woo (tm) and much drama is made of  transistors and an op amp brands.

eg: Frans big muff type pedals  https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic

Hers costs $300 ish,  Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.

Personally, I used to have a tube amp and a pedal board of unique pedals, it does  sound *better* than a digital modelling board in a one to one analysis however the moment you have to mic up the amp, or play in a musically dead room, or carry that crap around, that small difference in sound quality becomes much harder to hear.
 
As for creativity Im finding the digital one more creative because it has such a big range of virtual pedals Id never bother buying in boutique form.
Hmm I wonder if a DSP pedal would sell. The pedal comes doing exactly nothing by default, but you can load arbitrary program into it (up to memory limitation) to make it perform any function...
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rjp on October 05, 2019, 02:28:34 am
On top of all this,  most of these classic "tone" pedals are fully documented and reversed engineered  and are quite simple to build as hobby projects for anyone with a soldering iron and a few bucks. The pedal world is full of Audio Woo (tm) and much drama is made of  transistors and an op amp brands.

eg: Frans big muff type pedals  https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic

Hers costs $300 ish,  Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.

Personally, I used to have a tube amp and a pedal board of unique pedals, it does  sound *better* than a digital modelling board in a one to one analysis however the moment you have to mic up the amp, or play in a musically dead room, or carry that crap around, that small difference in sound quality becomes much harder to hear.
 
As for creativity Im finding the digital one more creative because it has such a big range of virtual pedals Id never bother buying in boutique form.
Hmm I wonder if a DSP pedal would sell. The pedal comes doing exactly nothing by default, but you can load arbitrary program into it (up to memory limitation) to make it perform any function...

the teensy boards come with synth and audio processing libraries that exploit the DSP on the high end arm micro's (cortex m4) and you can buy a case with input/output buffered circuits for them

https://www.tindie.com/products/Blackaddr/arduino-teensy-guitar-audio-shield/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/Blackaddr/arduino-teensy-guitar-audio-shield/)

a realtime FGPA version would possibly be popular but the skill required to make it sound nice is possibly a step too far for the hacker market, so you would also need to do a gui that provided building blocks.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: windsmurf on October 05, 2019, 02:40:44 am
...
eg: Frans big muff type pedals  https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic

Hers costs $300 ish,  Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.
...

Joyo overdrive was $25 but its gotten so many positive reviews from pro's that the price went up to $35-40. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfuAkR1V2o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfuAkR1V2o)



Hmm I wonder if a DSP pedal would sell. The pedal comes doing exactly nothing by default, but you can load arbitrary program into it (up to memory limitation) to make it perform any function...

There's a ton of those around already but DSP pedals tend to cost more and have more features... why not, its just additional software/firmware...


Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 05, 2019, 03:26:50 am
I still don't get why she needs that much space. I don't get why Dave needs that much space, lol.

I don't actually need 100sqm now that David works from home, so it's just me and a part time packing and shipping person.
The old 50sqm lab would be enough if I didn't have packing and shipping, that takes room. We used to do packing on the floor because of the lack space. So I need somewhere between 50-100sqm.
Could I get by with less? yeah, if I had to, but I don't have to any more so I choose not to.
Bench space is important, my old 50sqm lab had 6 benches. It's not about equipment storage, it's about working bench space to put stuff in progress etc. I have a storage bunker which helps a lot, it holds all my stock and my "hoard". Every week or two I bring up boxes of stock from the bunker.
Just having a permanent mailbag "set" takes room.
As for Fran she has sewing and all sorts of mechanical construction stuff. I can see her easily needing 200sqm+ when she lives there, works there, and uses it for storage.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: KL27x on October 05, 2019, 05:48:01 am
Oh. I didn't realize you regularly made and shipped stuff. I forgot about the Bryman DMM thing.

I recalled the scientific calculator from like a decade ago. And I guess the uCurrent is still selling? Wonder what else I missed.

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As for Fran she has sewing and all sorts of mechanical construction stuff. I can see her easily needing 200sqm+ when she lives there, works there, and uses it for storage.
  200 square meters is a fairly cozy house. I mean that's about 1800 square feet, right? I guess she doesn't want to live in a residential area, though. I guess I haven't seen too many of her videos where she uses/features/demonstrates any of that stuff. Had no idea about the sewing. I wonder if that generates any income.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: EEVblog on October 05, 2019, 06:23:25 am
Oh. I didn't realize you regularly made and shipped stuff. I forgot about the Bryman DMM thing.
I recalled the scientific calculator from like a decade ago. And I guess the uCurrent is still selling? Wonder what else I missed.

http://eevblog.com/store (http://eevblog.com/store)

I have many hundreds of meters in stock at any one time, I order pallet loads of them at a time.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuNRuwnV4AApDK3?format=jpg&name=900x900)

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As for Fran she has sewing and all sorts of mechanical construction stuff. I can see her easily needing 200sqm+ when she lives there, works there, and uses it for storage.
  200 square meters is a fairly cozy house. I mean that's about 1800 square feet, right? I guess she doesn't want to live in a residential area, though. I guess I haven't seen too many of her videos where she uses/features/demonstrates any of that stuff. Had no idea about the sewing. I wonder if that generates any income.

Her Youtube username is actually ContourCorsets, as is her Twitter name, not FranLab, or FranTone. She makes custom corsets, but not sure how much these days.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ContourCorsets (https://www.youtube.com/user/ContourCorsets)
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: Siwastaja on October 05, 2019, 08:47:14 am
Lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.

They don't need to know every detail. The point is, don't do anything that causes any harm or risk to them, and they'll have nothing against you (formally or informally). Be a good customer, in other words.

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Look at it from their potential POV:
Premises in use 24/365 and the additional wear and tear that creates.

I generate an order of magnitude less wear and tear than a typical tenant, which is a car repair shop by day, and hobby car repair shop by night.
Sleeping on a bed for 8 hours generates 0% more wear and tear than sleeping for 30 min, which is clearly allowed and normal.

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Higher insurance risk.

Err, nope. No difference whatsoever.

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Greater/faster property depreciation/higher maintenance.

Nope, see the first point.

I have been able to report things like roof leaking during heavy rain in the middle of the night with zero latency. My landlord likes me thanks to this fact.

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Have you ever considered if the landlord isn't factoring into the lease these additional costs imposed upon them from live-in commercial tenants then they're subsidizing your lifestyle ?

No, because this is based on your imagination based on non-facts caused by not properly reading what I wrote, then extrapolating between the lines. Please don't make assumptions on my "lifestyle".

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A buddy that has commercial tenants won't allow such live-in tenancy agreements other than 12hr/6 day occupancy.

Such agreement isn't in place. Sometimes you need to stop looking at things legal/paper side first, and concentrate doing the right thing, and being excellent to each other.

I have no more comments regarding this, let's keep on track.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: tautech on October 05, 2019, 09:41:27 am
Lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.

They don't need to know every detail.
Why not, it's their property and investment after all and their right to set terms to protect it.
Sure, you pay for the right to use it at terms agreeable to you both however not disclosing full facts of usage is deceit.

Anyways as I posted earlier, lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.
Title: Re: FranLab is getting evicted
Post by: rrinker on October 09, 2019, 06:55:05 pm
 There are certainly areas within easy walks of all sorts of things in Philadelphia that are small homes with garages. I lives in the Northeast section of the city immediately after college, and while I lived in an apartment building with 5 apartments, the rest f the residences on my street were single family homes with even small yards and garages, yet I was only 1 block off the main street with all sorts of shops - I could and did walk to most everything except my job which was several miles away. And it was a bit far to carry a week or more worth of groceries by walking, so instead of the fairly nearby place, I usually stopped on the way home from work since I already was in my car anyway. There are similar areas where there are no yards, just blocks of houses, but they have garages, not the ancient style row home built in an age before the automobile. At  the time, this fit my lifestyle, but after a year and a half or so I took a better job and needed to move closer to that because the commute was killing me.

 Mostly pointless to talk about, Fran will do as she wishes. There are options which can keep the same thing from happening to her over and over again, but as the old adage goes, you can lead a horse to water...