Author Topic: Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment  (Read 35630 times)

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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2016, 01:46:52 pm »
When you fire a rifle at a target, there is no control of the bullet during flight.  Try convincing the courts of law that you weren't responsible for that bullet based on that lack of control.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #101 on: May 01, 2016, 02:31:35 pm »

So make no mistake, an unmanned balloon traveling around the world is classed under the same rules as RC and totally illegal in pretty much any country it fly's over.

Um, not really. There is a special category in the rules applying specifically to weather balloons and similar scientific stuff. Most of these high altitude balloon launches are done under that category, not RC modelling rules (which wouldn't apply for the many reasons you have outlined).

Now whether or not the flight was legal under the weather balloon rules is another story - normally that needs a permission (not hard to obtain), some countries require that there needs to be some sort of a flight termination device onboard and the device is not permitted to fly across country borders.  But those things differ between countries.

For example for UK:
https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq#do_i_need_to_get_permission_to_launch_a_weather_balloon_in_the_uk

US:
http://community.balloonchallenge.org/t/regulations-overview-including-contacting-the-us-faa/676

So considering this was a bunch of party balloons with a lightweight payload, it was in all likeliness completely legal to launch and fly if they got the FAA paperwork done in time. Better check the actual rules next time.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 02:38:28 pm by janoc »
 

Online Brumby

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #102 on: May 01, 2016, 03:38:14 pm »
So considering this was a bunch of party balloons with a lightweight payload, it was in all likeliness completely legal to launch and fly if they got the FAA paperwork done in time. Better check the actual rules next time.

The paperwork is likely to make sure someone doesn't try something like this:
 

Offline botcrusher

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #103 on: May 01, 2016, 05:07:59 pm »
Camo it with cotton balls :P
 

Offline timb

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #104 on: May 02, 2016, 12:12:29 am »
So considering this was a bunch of party balloons with a lightweight payload, it was in all likeliness completely legal to launch and fly if they got the FAA paperwork done in time. Better check the actual rules next time.

The paperwork is likely to make sure someone doesn't try something like this:


But they do! Haven't you ever heard of Lawnchair Larry?

The FAA wanted him charged and jailed, but it turns out he didn't actually break any laws! (Well, he did break at least one when he drifted into active federal airspace over a *major* airport, hence the $1500 fine.)

The way I see it, what the OP is doing is absolutely no different than letting a couple of party balloons go. There's no danger to passing aircraft (they regularly impact birds much larger than the balloons + payload) and no danger to people on the ground.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Offline Carl_Smith

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #105 on: May 02, 2016, 04:13:26 am »
I'm in North Dakota.  I didn't see your balloon.   :)

It's kind of strange that the line on the live tracking map ends like a mile from the North Dakota Border.  Seems suspicious.  They were waiting at the border.  :)

Seriously though, the height was 9980 meters, so unless the balloon popped and fell like a rock, it probably ended up somewhere many miles from the end of the tracking line...

Very interesting project.    :-+

Offline ez24

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #106 on: May 02, 2016, 04:31:39 am »
I hope we have not scared the OP from trying again by quoting all those laws.

I think he should put a little fan on it, so if it get close to ND again, it will come on and blow it around ND
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Online Brumby

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #107 on: May 02, 2016, 05:21:48 am »
So considering this was a bunch of party balloons with a lightweight payload, it was in all likeliness completely legal to launch and fly if they got the FAA paperwork done in time. Better check the actual rules next time.

The paperwork is likely to make sure someone doesn't try something like this:


But they do! Haven't you ever heard of Lawnchair Larry?

The FAA wanted him charged and jailed, but it turns out he didn't actually break any laws! (Well, he did break at least one when he drifted into active federal airspace over a *major* airport, hence the $1500 fine.)

The way I see it, what the OP is doing is absolutely no different than letting a couple of party balloons go. There's no danger to passing aircraft (they regularly impact birds much larger than the balloons + payload) and no danger to people on the ground.

I'd forgotten about him.

In checking his story, I found there have been other efforts around the world - at least one of which was not too successful.  There was also someone who did the UP! house thing.


Still, I think the FAA would be interested.........
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2016, 07:11:42 am »
I don't know, but it might make for an interesting legal case. I know all the FAA rules use the words "flown", "controlled", and "operated" when referencing UAS, none of which seem to apply in this situation.

As I see it, "controlled" would not seem to be immediately applicable, but we (or certainly I) don't know is - what technicality could be applied in a legal case.

However, "operated" and "flown" make no inference of control - other than an intention that has been carried out.  These two terms would apply, IMHO.

I could be wrong but i don't think "controlled" actually refers to "controlled flight".  In this case i think his link was TX to balloon only, but if it had two way comms it would be "controlled" even if that control was not to cause a change in flight path.

Don't get me wrong, i think the OP's balloon flight was awesome. Just saying the FAA wouldn't find it awesome at all.
They like to set examples of people when it comes to things flying in "their" airspace that they have no control over.
eg lawnchair man, and that was before all the drone panic set it.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 07:15:50 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Online Brumby

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #109 on: May 02, 2016, 07:46:09 am »
I could be wrong but i don't think "controlled" actually refers to "controlled flight".  In this case i think his link was TX to balloon only, but if it had two way comms it would be "controlled" even if that control was not to cause a change in flight path.

Fair enough.  I'm not aware of the context of the terms, so I will admit to flying blind...  :D
 

Offline timb

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2016, 09:28:59 am »
So considering this was a bunch of party balloons with a lightweight payload, it was in all likeliness completely legal to launch and fly if they got the FAA paperwork done in time. Better check the actual rules next time.

The paperwork is likely to make sure someone doesn't try something like this:


But they do! Haven't you ever heard of Lawnchair Larry?

The FAA wanted him charged and jailed, but it turns out he didn't actually break any laws! (Well, he did break at least one when he drifted into active federal airspace over a *major* airport, hence the $1500 fine.)

The way I see it, what the OP is doing is absolutely no different than letting a couple of party balloons go. There's no danger to passing aircraft (they regularly impact birds much larger than the balloons + payload) and no danger to people on the ground.

I'd forgotten about him.

In checking his story, I found there have been other efforts around the world - at least one of which was not too successful.  There was also someone who did the UP! house thing.


Still, I think the FAA would be interested.........

Yes, if I remember right there was a priest down in South America somewhere (I think) who did it once semi-successfully. He tried it a second time, only to be killed after drifting into a large storm, which swept him off the coast, where he fell into the ocean. Apparently, he *did* have a GPS onboard, but unfortunately didn't know how to operate it. So he couldn't relay his position to the ground. A naval ship found his body two weeks later.

He received a Darwin Award!

A ton of other people have done it as well. In fact, it's actually an extreme sport now!

As for Lawnchair Larry, a few years after his flight, he shot himself in an apparent suicide. At least he'll always live on in our hearts. (But not his own, because that's where he shot himself. In the heart.)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Offline DaveBev

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 knots at the moment
« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2016, 01:32:20 pm »
A new balloon attempt to float around the world, was launched this morning.
The radio is a little lighter at 18gms, and if all goes well, could float at about 10500 meters above sea level.

live map here :http://qrp-labs.com/ultimate3/ve3kcl-balloons/ve3kcl-s10.html

Dave
 
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Offline botcrusher

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #112 on: May 09, 2016, 03:10:08 pm »
And it speeds out of the gate!

I'll be watching this new one closely for sure!
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #113 on: May 09, 2016, 04:42:58 pm »
I wish the winds would make the balloon fly west...
it would pass the United Danger Zones of A. right away, instead of waiting that it has almost completed to an entire round across the globe  ;D
 

Offline john_p_wi

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 knots at the moment
« Reply #114 on: May 09, 2016, 05:35:28 pm »
A new balloon attempt to float around the world, was launched this morning.
The radio is a little lighter at 18gms, and if all goes well, could float at about 10500 meters above sea level.

live map here :http://qrp-labs.com/ultimate3/ve3kcl-balloons/ve3kcl-s10.html

Dave

Awesome Dave, subscribed.

Go little guy, GO!
 

Offline botcrusher

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #115 on: May 09, 2016, 05:45:52 pm »
If one coated the balloon in that paint they used on the SR-71...
Outdated, but It is a freaking party balloon.
 

Online hendorog

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Re: Balloon flies 51000km and it has just Vanished
« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2016, 08:24:04 pm »
Probably best not to contact them.  With the bureaucracy of today's world I would not be surprised if you need some kind of permit to do something like this and could get in trouble. 

So make no mistake, an unmanned balloon traveling around the world is classed under the same rules as RC and totally illegal in pretty much any country it fly's over.

Its fine where we live:
"Free Balloon means a pilotless aerostat without propulsion in free flight, having a gas capacity greater than 1.5 m³"
As long as the payload is < 4kg it is a light free balloon. If the gas capacity is < 1.5m^3 it doesn't seem to be regulated at all.

https://www.caa.govt.nz/rules/Part_101_Brief.htm

 

Offline ez24

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 knots at the moment
« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2016, 08:33:05 pm »
A new balloon attempt to float around the world, was launched this morning.
The radio is a little lighter at 18gms, and if all goes well, could float at about 10500 meters above sea level.

live map here :http://qrp-labs.com/ultimate3/ve3kcl-balloons/ve3kcl-s10.html

Dave

Thanks Dave  :-+ :-+ :-+

Lets hope it will stay away from North Dakota, you know what they say about N. Dakotaians

« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 08:35:04 pm by ez24 »
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Offline Skimask

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 knots at the moment
« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2016, 11:14:34 pm »
Lets hope it will stay away from North Dakota, you know what they say about N. Dakotaians
What's that???
I didn't take it apart.
I turned it on.

The only stupid question is, well, most of them...

Save a fuse...Blow an electrician.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 knots at the moment
« Reply #119 on: May 10, 2016, 12:27:23 am »
Lets hope it will stay away from North Dakota, you know what they say about N. Dakotaians
What's that???

The last one disappeared over North Dakota after traveling around the world.  It is suspected that it was shot down by a F-16 on orders of NORAD

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Offline Skimask

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2016, 02:25:00 am »
Only thing military flying around this area is B-52H's...and they are not equipped for offensive air to air weaponry.
I didn't take it apart.
I turned it on.

The only stupid question is, well, most of them...

Save a fuse...Blow an electrician.
 

Offline botcrusher

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2016, 11:40:57 am »
What about turrets with freakin laser beams!

Seriously though, i just noticed it's a foil balloon... Could explain why it was shot down.

I do suppose it has to be a foil balloon...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 11:49:45 am by botcrusher »
 

Offline jitter

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #122 on: May 10, 2016, 02:11:29 pm »
Awesome thread.
I just bookmarked the site for flight S-10. Hopefully it will be as successful or even better than S-9.

As for the reason of the demise of S-9, IMHO it's likely it just failed, given the history of the previous flights. Besides, if it can fly over war zones and be discussed openly on the internet, it seems likely to me that those who might have an interest might be aware of it but are just not bothered by a DIY device that does nothing more than report its position.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 02:14:53 pm by jitter »
 

Online Brumby

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2016, 04:07:20 pm »
The answer, my friend ...
is blowing in the wind.
The answer is blowing in the wind.
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: New Balloon cruising at 120 at the moment
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2016, 07:14:58 pm »
For all those thinking this thing got shot down, please explain to me who shot it down, and why.

If it was the Americans, why did they let it fly over the western US and then shoot it down as it left US territory.

If it was the Canadiens, why did they let it fly over eastern Canada, depart unmolested, then fly over part of western Canada unmolested, and then shoot it down either just before or just after it entered Canadian airspace for the third time.

Too bad it didn't make it all the way home, but one heck of a trip for a low cost experiment.  Maybe one of these days one of them will make it around the world twice.
 


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