Your best "Made in ..."?

[Zeyneb]

Which "made in <country name>" gives you most confidence in the product?

[electronics man]

you forgot UK

[Zeyneb]

I added UK as well.

Please ask if your favorite country name is not listed I will add.

It seems only possible to add one at the time.

Regards Zeyneb

[electr_peter]

Utopia land

[Andy Watson]

Can I have the last century? I.e. before the race to the bottom entered the final lap.

[HighVoltage]

"Made in Germany" is the oldest of those marks.
It was required by the British government as a kind of punishment, to show the people in the UK that it is inferior quality that comes from Germany.

Too many things these days called "Made in Germany" is only assembled here and many parts come from China and other places.
Kind of weird, how it has changed in the last 20 years.

[John Coloccia]

Honestly, depends what I'm buying.  For example, nobody thinks of Italy when they think of machinery, but they make the best woodworking bandsaws, period.

[nctnico]

I added UK as well.

Please ask if your favorite country name is not listed I will add.

Holland ofcourse....

I vote not USA, not China and not UK.

@John Coloccia: and pasta!

[PA0PBZ]

Honestly, depends what I'm buying.  For example, nobody thinks of Italy when they think of machinery, but they make the best woodworking bandsaws, period.

+1
It depends on what you are buying. If it is a watch I'd go for the Swiss, any mechanical probably Germany, Test instruments USA or Japan....

[dannyf]

Doesn't this depend on one's value system (what's best to me may not be best to you) and products we are talking about? Generally speaking, you can always  find "the best" anything anywhere anytime, as long as you are willing to pay a sufficiently high price.

[Fsck]

a lot of bests are product dependent as the others say. I put Japan just because a lot of the products I buy fall in that category.

[Zeyneb]

I added The Netherlands as well

@nctnico: Please make your vote.

[tszaboo]

I voted UK, but obviously CCCP wins.
Those washing machines still work. You look into them it is filled with millitary grade components. You know those were usually production lines where you flipped a switch and T72 was the end product instead of the washing machine.

[mauroh]

Made in Italy
We are a relative small country and only the quality and the attention to details is the key to survive (and grow) in the actual world.

Mauro

[AG6QR]

A few esoteric categories that I know of...

Steel-stringed acoustic guitars?  USA.

Morse code keys/paddles?  Italy

Camera lenses? Germany, followed closely by Japan

Beer?  let the debates begin!

[dannyf]

F15: USA
F16: USA
F18: USA
F22: USA
F35: USA


to name a few.

[Bud]

OP should have said what product.
To me cars is Japan, hardware tools is Germany, watches - Switzerland. As to China.... perhaps chopsticks ?

[nctnico]

Made in Italy
We are a relative small country and only the quality and the attention to details is the key to survive (and grow) in the actual world.

Except for cars and trains 

[xrunner]

Made in what country is one thing - designed in what country is quite another. 

[Grapsus]

[Grapsus]

Also, all my supplies say "made in Colofomia", am I doing it right ?

[Richard Crowley]

Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you’ll know of the old joke about European stereotypes that goes like this:

In Heaven…

• The mechanics are German
• The chefs are French
• The police are British
• The lovers are Italian
• And everything is organised by the Swiss.

In Hell…

• The mechanics are French
• The police are German
• The chefs are British
• The lovers are Swiss
• And everything is organised by the Italians.

[Zucca]

And everything is organised by the Italians.

Oh, I love my messy country so much...

[HighVoltage]

The Italians are making some of the best high speed winding machines for very thin copper wires.
They actually impressed me a lot a few years ago.

[lapm]

Few rules:
Is it made in China?
Does it have China Exported logo? (looks like European CE logo, buts not in closer look)
Is it super cheap compared to more reputable suppliers?

More time you answer yes, less quality it has...

And im not saying this is end of all list, you do time to time get shit made in western countries as well..

Im also not saying all super cheap from china is crap. I often buy super cheap stuff from ebay, etc.

[KJDS]

If I want a one off, or limited production run done very quickly and very well then it's the UK. There's a reason most F1 teams are based here.

[madires]

I really can't vote for one single origin. I've had crap "made in Germany" as well as from other countries. But in my experience stuff made in Switzerland seems to be totally overprized. In most cases you can get the same quality for 1/3 of the price and the quality of the Switzerland made electronics don't live up to the expectations based on the high price and the "made in Switzerland" label. My common favourites are Germany (obviously , Japan und UK. Tons of stuff comes from China, cheap and dangerous, also high quality, often made for known companies. So it's hard to find a proper place in my personal list of favourites. USA is mixed too. There are some things I prefer to be made in some other countries, like Italy.

[VK3DRB]

THE BEST QUALITY:

I don't want to sound biased here but...

Personal Computers... Australia, up until 1997 (the lowest warranty return rate in the world)
Football... Victoria, Australia (Only AFL)
Beer... Australia (Kosciuszko Beer, made in Melbourne)
Meat pies... Australia (Four 'n Twenty)
Raw food... Australia (No hepatitis from our berries)
Meat... Australia (No mad cow here)
Milk... Australia (Contains no melamine)
Pop Music... Australia (Little River Band, Olivia Newton John, and Dave and the Derros)
Gospel Music... (Hillsong)
Rock Music... Australia (AC/DC)
Electronics design software... Australia (Altium... OK I admit I am exaggerating a bit here)

[Muttley Snickers]

THE BEST QUALITY:

I don't want to sound biased here but...

Personal Computers... Australia, up until 1997 (the lowest warranty return rate in the world)
Football... Victoria, Australia (Only AFL)
Beer... Australia (Kosciuszko Beer, made in Melbourne)
Meat pies... Australia (Four 'n Twenty)
Raw food... Australia (No hepatitis from our berries)
Meat... Australia (No mad cow here)
Milk... Australia (Contains no melamine)
Pop Music... Australia (Little River Band, Olivia Newton John, and Dave and the Derros)
Gospel Music... (Hillsong)
Rock Music... Australia (AC/DC)
Electronics design software... Australia (Altium... OK I admit I am exaggerating a bit here)

Not to mention kangaroo steak.

[Stonent]

South Korea is another one missing.
They've really stepped up their game since the 80s when Samsung was the poor man's Sony, Goldstar (now LG) was the poor mans Panasonic and Hyundai was the poor mans Honda.

Now in things like display technology S.K. is at the top. Samsung and LG make some of the best display panels in the world.

KIA and Hyundai offer well made cars that are quite a bit less in price than Honda and Toyota.

Cell phones? Samsung and LG are top android phone makers.

[dannyf]

Not to mention kangaroo steak.

Or roasted Koala, .

Someone somewhere somehow is always going to be good at something for someone. So if you don't specify what that something is and how you determine "best", you pretty much have to include anyone / any region / any country on that list.

[elgonzo]

F15: USA
F16: USA
F18: USA
[...snip...]

That era was quite remarkable - a country with an industry able to engineer and build such wonderful airplanes, yet so bad at building good passenger cars. Hmm... that reminds me of another country of that time which had similar problems.

[free_electron]

zimbabwe and ukraine. can't top that.

and for scams: nigeria

[mtdoc]

Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you’ll know of the old joke about European stereotypes that goes like this:

In Heaven…

• The mechanics are German
• The chefs are French
• The police are British
• The lovers are Italian
• And everything is organised by the Swiss.

In Hell…

• The mechanics are French
• The police are German
• The chefs are British
• The lovers are Swiss
• And everything is organised by the Italians.

The version I'm falimiliar with is slightly different and had to do with the hopes and fears of the founders of the European Union:

The Hopes…

• The mechanics are German
• The chefs are French
• The bankers are British
• The lovers are Italian
• And the doctors are Swiss.

The Fears....

• The mechanics are French
• The doctors are German
• The chefs are British
• The lovers are Swiss
• And the bankers are the Italians.

[free_electron]

DPRK. because everything there it is so much better than the imperialistic west.

[dannyf]

DPRK. because everything there it is so much better than the imperialistic west.

Not to mention that everyone there is really EQUAL. That's a heaven for those equality nuts.

[m100]

All those countries as a choice but no option for Austria?

UK for me   

[KJDS]

The bankers are British

Again... British bankers screwed out out of billions and consider themselves above the law. In fact, they own an entire police form (City of London Police) who act on their behalf with the full power of the law. Our system is badly broken, and none of them were held to account for the financial crisis.

Bollox

[steve30]

Hard to say really. I've had good and bad stuff from all over.

Since we often make fun of cheap Chinese crap, I'm a bit reluctant to say it, but even China makes some pretty good stuff.

[PeterFW]

The bankers are British

Again... British bankers screwed out out of billions and consider themselves above the law.

Bankers are a plague, regardless were they are from... 

[LektroiD]

A few decades ago, stuff produced in the UK (or Great Britain as it was referred to then) was considered some of the best in the world, now a lot of the stuff produced here is absolute garbage.

A lot of '70s & '80s music synthesizers manufactured in USSR are built like tanks...

There's always companies who make the exception to the rule in any country... China is known for producing cheap fakes, but then genuine Apple products are also outsourced to China. My Fluke 101 is made in China and is both rugged and accurate, so you can only generalise when you talk about which country is the best for manufacturing.

[dannyf]

A few decades ago, stuff produced in the UK (or Great Britain as it was referred to then) was considered some of the best in the world,

cadbury chocolate is still the best.

[LektroiD]

A few decades ago, stuff produced in the UK (or Great Britain as it was referred to then) was considered some of the best in the world,

cadbury chocolate is still the best.

LOL!

Over-sweetened crap! Give me Lindt, Thorntons, and anything from belgium before I'd consider touching that toxic waste!

[helius]

A lot of famous brand products are now owned by multinationals with little attachment to any particular country.
Cadbury's was known as Cadbury-Schweppes, but is now owned by Kraft, which in turn is about to become Brazilian... and the rights to the name Cadbury in the US are owned by Hershey's, which sells its own chocolate under the name "Cadbury's", and uses lawsuits to prevent imports of the original English Cadbury products.

[Stonent]

DPRK. because everything there it is so much better than the imperialistic west.

Not to mention that everyone there is really EQUAL. That's a heaven for those equality nuts.

Liberty > Equality

[Tallie]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

[KJDS]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

That's almost as ridiculous a comment as that from mojo-chan earlier.

[Tallie]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

That's almost as ridiculous a comment as that from mojo-chan earlier.

All national pride BS aside... there's really no disputing it.

[calexanian]

Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you’ll know of the old joke about European stereotypes that goes like this:

In Heaven…

• The mechanics are German
• The chefs are French
• The police are British
• The lovers are Italian
• And everything is organised by the Swiss.

In Hell…

• The mechanics are French
• The police are German
• The chefs are British
• The lovers are Swiss
• And everything is organised by the Italians.

Could not have put it better myself!

[KJDS]

The bankers are British

Again... British bankers screwed out out of billions and consider themselves above the law. In fact, they own an entire police form (City of London Police) who act on their behalf with the full power of the law. Our system is badly broken, and none of them were held to account for the financial crisis.

Bollox

That's a pretty devastating argument, I'll grant you, but go read the Wikipedia article about the City of London. Then read up about what the City's police get up to. In particular, the intellectual property unit.

How the City of London police force is funded, mostly by government grants and business rates.

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/about-the-city/how-we-make-decisions/budgets-and-spending/Documents/city-fund-overview-2013-14.pdf

[HighVoltage]

Again... British bankers screwed out out of billions and consider themselves above the law. In fact, they own an entire police form (City of London Police) who act on their behalf with the full power of the law. Our system is badly broken, and none of them were held to account for the financial crisis.

The banking system is screwed up all around the world and anyone who has put time and effort in to the understanding of our modern banking system knows that. "Made in Germany" banks are as bad a "Made in UK" banks.
The worst used car salesman is probably more honest than the most honest banker!

[smjcuk]

I worked for a company that detects fraud in banks as external early warning systems in the UK. Its actually not that common! Banks are pretty honest believe it or not.

Currency and stock trading, financial advice, estate management and public sector is faaaaaar worse. These people hire people to make the problems go away and there is no regulation at all worth mentioning.

[BradC]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

American beer is like making love in a Canoe. It's fucking close to water.

Belgians only do two things right. Chocolate and Beer.

[tszaboo]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

American beer is like making love in a Canoe. It's fucking close to water.

Belgians only do two things right. Chocolate and Beer.

And Waffles.

[Muttley Snickers]

The country names should be placed in the appropriate order.

alphabetical


Muttley

[elgonzo]

If you add new countries to the poll, it would be a good idea to also enable the option which allows users to revoke their vote to place it on one of the newly added countries if they so wish...

Also, what about Taiwan? Technically it is China, but "Made in Taiwan" has a different ring to me than "Made in China". China got already 2 votes, and i would expect Taiwan to get more votes than China... (Taiwan is a relevant choice since it is an important manufacturer of electronic goods and components...)

[Tallie]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

American beer is like making love in a Canoe. It's fucking close to water.

Belgians only do two things right. Chocolate and Beer.

You don't know much about American beer...

[elgonzo]

You don't know much about American beer...

 

[Tallie]

That's really funny... but A-B InBev, the company that produces the piss-water of which you speak(Budweiser, Bud Light, Corona, Natural Ice, Michelob, etc.)... is a Belgian company. The American craft beer culture blows all others out of the water... canoe or no canoe.

[Zeyneb]

If you add new countries to the poll, it would be a good idea to also enable the option which allows users to revoke their vote to place it on one of the newly added countries if they so wish...

Hi elgonzo,

I don't have the ability to revoke users votes. Or you can tell me how?

Taiwan is added.

Regards Zeyneb

[elgonzo]

If you add new countries to the poll, it would be a good idea to also enable the option which allows users to revoke their vote to place it on one of the newly added countries if they so wish...

Hi elgonzo,

I don't have the ability to revoke users votes. Or you can tell me how?

Taiwan is added.

Regards Zeyneb

The SMF manual lists all the Poll Options you can set or modify (see here). But i am not sure how to do it exactly (i have never created a poll on a forum driven by SMF...  )

[mtdoc]

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

American beer is like making love in a Canoe. It's fucking close to water.

Belgians only do two things right. Chocolate and Beer.

You don't know much about American beer...

Unfortunately, most outside of the U.S. will equate American beer with Budwiser and similar crap swill. They won't be familiar with the many excellent craft beers that have become popular over the past 20-30 years. They aren't generally exported and the whole microbrewery movement in the US will be alien to those outside the U.S. (and still is to many in rural America as well).

[elgonzo]

That's really funny... but A-B InBev, the company that produces the piss-water of which you speak(Budweiser, Bud Light, Corona, Natural Ice, Michelob, etc.)... is a Belgian company. The American craft beer culture blows all others out of the water... canoe or no canoe.

So, Budweiser is then Belgian Beer...? (Don't tell me it is Czech... i know )
But i agree, the big multi-national brewery conglomerates have really severely damaged the image of American beer brands in the world...

I don't know much about the American craft beer culture, and i am not sure whether it will blow other beer cultures out of the water.
However, i grant it that it is probably one of the most creative beer cultures around...

[mtdoc]

But i grant it that it is probably one of the most creative beer cultures around...

Ha! Where else but in America [Utah to be exact]would you get a Polygamy Porter.

Why have just one?...

[Wytnucls]

There isn't much we do better than anybody else, but 1500 beers can't be wrong:



http://www.belgianbeerboard.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=88889023

[zapta]

How the City of London police force is funded, mostly by government grants and business rates.

Come on, don't be naive. The local government is there to serve corporations only. Corporations actually vote in the elections and have the vast majority of votes. The local government and the police force serve them, and are funded by them. It's an affront to democracy, and you will note that the City of London police mostly seem to be interested in things that their corporate masters are. For example, they recently started making false claims to get web sites that their masters don't like shut down, and arresting people on civil copyright infringement matters.

Here we go again...

[elgonzo]

Ha! Where else but in America [Utah to be exact]would you get a Polygamy Porter.

Why have just one?...

Hahaha 
I wonder what goes through ones head when drinking "Polygamy Porter"... Something like this but turbo-charged, i guess:

[smjcuk]

How the City of London police force is funded, mostly by government grants and business rates.

Come on, don't be naive. The local government is there to serve corporations only. Corporations actually vote in the elections and have the vast majority of votes. The local government and the police force serve them, and are funded by them. It's an affront to democracy, and you will note that the City of London police mostly seem to be interested in things that their corporate masters are. For example, they recently started making false claims to get web sites that their masters don't like shut down, and arresting people on civil copyright infringement matters.

Here we go again...

It's about right actually. They only serve 4000 residents and about 19000 businesses.

[KJDS]

How the City of London police force is funded, mostly by government grants and business rates.

Come on, don't be naive. The local government is there to serve corporations only. Corporations actually vote in the elections and have the vast majority of votes. The local government and the police force serve them, and are funded by them. It's an affront to democracy, and you will note that the City of London police mostly seem to be interested in things that their corporate masters are. For example, they recently started making false claims to get web sites that their masters don't like shut down, and arresting people on civil copyright infringement matters.

Here we go again...

It's about right actually. They only serve 4000 residents and about 19000 businesses.

Which is fine, except my comments were made relating to the initial statement that it was the banks which own the City of London police. That's still bollox.

[Bud]

I wonder what goes through ones head when drinking "Polygamy Porter"...

Now guess what goes through heads of fellow Canadians when having for breakfest this

http://holycrap.ca/collections/all/products/holy-crap-cereal

[dannyf]

"own" as in "largely control or dominate".

Basically, you are saying that you are owned by your employers, your landlords, your neighbors, your family members, your banks, your contractors, and even your cars.

Wow, you are really owned.

[Zero999]

Most of the time, I don't care where it's made, as long as it's a good quality product, is well designed and well made.

For most food, it's good if it's local but the EU at least because I have more faith that it'll be produced under good hygiene standards than most parts of the world.

If it's fireworks then China are the experts!

[mtdoc]

"own" as in "largely control or dominate".

Basically, you are saying that you are owned by your employers, your landlords, your neighbors, your family members, your banks, your contractors, and even your cars.

Wow, you are really owned.

Anyone opposed to statism and/or corporacracy should be sympathetic to criticism of situatuons where the police are not controlled by or serving the general populace. (Unless of course someone is just out to sow discord)

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Have a beer from your country of choice and relax..

[G7PSK]

I won't vote. It is pretty much impossible to buy any product these days that does not incorporate parts and materials from more than one country and even if you do buy something due to it being made in a particular country it is either an import  repackaged or it was designed in another country and or the manufacturer is owned in another country. One thing is fore sure though I will not buy anything made on Mars if its not made on Earth I wont buy it. 

[Noise Floor]

Too many things these days called "Made in Germany" is only assembled here and many parts come from China and other places.
Kind of weird, how it has changed in the last 20 years.

I have a few Festool sanders I like a lot that I got at an estate sale.  They are "Made in Germany", any knowledge if they are really designed and built there with German parts?

[HighVoltage]

Festool is a really high end brand for tools in Germany.
All of them are supposedly designed and made in Germany.
Based on their quality and the 3 year warranty they offer, I would think that they are all made in Germany.
I have lots of Festool tools and really never had a problem with them except one time and they took care of my claim as one would expect from a good company in Germany.

On the other side, many Bosch hand tools these days are not made in Germany any more.

[Noise Floor]

Festool is a really high end brand for tools in Germany.
All of them are supposedly designed and made in Germany.
Based on their quality and the 3 year warranty they offer, I would think that they are all made in Germany.
I have lots of Festool tools and really never had a problem with them except one time and they took care of my claim as one would expect from a good company in Germany.

On the other side, many Bosch hand tools these days are not made in Germany any more.

Yeah, Bosch is my "go to" brand.  Most of the consumables are made in China, but I still find several of the power tools made in Germany or Switzerland. I'll keep my eyes peeled for more Festool on craigslist.

[HighVoltage]

These are some of the Festool high end customers

https://www.festool.de/Branchen/Automotive/Global/Pages/Service-Zentren.aspx

They are especially strong in the airplane repair industry.
Festool does not have the best in every category, but they are close

Another great German brand for these type of tools is FEIN
http://www.feinus.com/en_us/

[VK3DRB]

...Also, what about Taiwan? Technically it is China, but "Made in Taiwan" has a different ring to me than "Made in China".

Taiwan is the Republic of China where there is democracy and it is a developed first world country. They have a good education system and Taiwan produces some excellent home grown electronics technology. I trust Taiwanese made goods. In contrast, the People's Republic of China is a communist third world totalitarian state. Unlike Taiwan, the PRC has almost no innovation. What they do well is copy, steal, pollute, bribe and exploit cheap labour. Quality wise, there is no comparison. Just ask anyone who knows anything about machine shop tools such as lathes and milling machines.

[VK3DRB]

Colour TV set quality in design and component quality over the last 40 years...

Best: Made in Japan (eg: Sony, NEC, Panasonic)
Worst: Made in Europe (eg: Blaupunkt, Luxor)

The Blaupunkt sets were so unreliable, you could buy a published book in Australia on Blaupunkt faults. The dummkopfs who who designed Blaupunkt TV's had a habit of using underrated components in the TV. Moreover most continental European TV sets did not meet Australian safety standards. One TV technician in Queensland was electrocuted because a defective component shorted the live chassis to the antenna.

I bought a colour TV manufactured in Sydney in 1983 (National). It lasted 25 years without a hitch. I never took the back off except when I rejuvenated the picture tube near the end of its life. You would never get that reliability out of an European import. And it had an inbuilt isolation transformer for safety too. My in-laws bought a Japanese NEC TV in 1985. It is still running today and has never had the back taken off the set.

[Richard Crowley]

Taiwan is the Republic of China where there is democracy and it is a developed first world country. They have a good education system and Taiwan produces some excellent home grown electronics technology. I trust Taiwanese made goods. In contrast, the People's Republic of China is a communist third world totalitarian state. Unlike Taiwan, the PRC has almost no innovation. What they do well is copy, steal, pollute, bribe and exploit cheap labour. Quality wise, there is no comparison. Just ask anyone who knows anything about machine shop tools such as lathes and milling machines.

YES absolutely.  A WORLD of difference between Taiwan (ROC) and China (PRC).
x10 to everything VK3DRB said.   

Some of the most advanced high-tech companies outside the traditional "first world" are to be found in ROC and S.Korea.
To the point where they are eclipsing Japan these days.

I was trying to think of a true technical innovation that came out of China and I can't think of any.
To be sure they are experts at low-cost (read: exploitative) manufacturing.
But the designs came from (or were copied from) intellectual property from elsewhere.

[SeanB]

To be fair the Chinese invented agriculture, banking ,paper, paper money and taxation, along with merchant shipping. But that was a long time ago under different conditions and under an autocratic rule by a hereditary ( mostly ) king. OK not much has changed then.

[smjcuk]

One TV technician in Queensland was electrocuted because a defective component shorted the live chassis to the antenna.

To be fair the whole live chassis deal was rather stupid. It surprised me to learn about these design choices.

[SeanB]

Live chassis saved a lot of weight and space, as with a typical set using 400W plus having a transformer inside to supply isolated rails which were capable of 400W of power would involve a 5kg unit, which would have a large external field which would also need additional magnetic shielding, adding about the same mass again of Mumetal, and which would about double the cost of the basic set.

Using capacitors and more robust insulation negated this, and later sets used 2 mains rated capacitors in series with the antenna so that a single component failure would still not make the antenna live, or used a small toroidal transformer to couple the antenna signal in in some sets. The failure rate for these arrangements was about the same as for a transformer, and as houses typically did not have ground conductors in those days this carried on forward to having sets with no ground connection other than the requirement to ground the external antenna mast.

[ResR]

For me "Made in USSR" gives the most confidence, followed by Japan. Sanyo Eneloop rechargeable AA batteries are the best. I'm also testing cheap chinese SW pocket radio for reliability, so far one year later it works well so China is 3rd as they start to ramp up in quality for quite some products (my Optio E30 is made in china and it works well for 8 years apart from paint worn off the buttons).

Beer?  let the debates begin!

USA; no contest.

Saku Õlletehas, Estonia, beats it easily. 

[smjcuk]

Those eneloops are indeed awesome. Sanyo always knock out the best cells.

[BradC]

Sanyo always knock out the best cells.

You mean knocked? Sanyo of course being no more.

[coppice]

Sanyo always knock out the best cells.

You mean knocked? Sanyo of course being no more.

When people talk of Panasonic's leadership in batteries, its the Sanyo business, which Panasonic bought, that they are talking about. So, the Sanyo name has gone, but not their products.

[dannyf]

For me "Made in USSR" gives the most confidence,

I would agree. Their stuff was built like tanks.

[dannyf]

They have a good education system and Taiwan produces some excellent home grown electronics technology. I trust Taiwanese made goods.

You probably want to put your ideology aside, understand a little bit history of not just how Taiwan developed but also how Japan developed. For starters, "it's a sony" was a derogatory term for quite sometime.

[BradC]

When people talk of Panasonic's leadership in batteries, its the Sanyo business, which Panasonic bought, that they are talking about. So, the Sanyo name has gone, but not their products.

You'd like to think that, but look at the numerous reviews and tests that compare the old Made in Japan Eneloops vs the new Made in China units and you'll see a significant difference.

[jancumps]

[zapta]

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Once again Mojo Chan's wing man comes to the help and once again he ignores rule violations by his lead man.

[mtdoc]

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Once again Mojo Chan's wing man comes to the help and once again he ignores rule violations by his lead man.

Well,I guess that answers that question.

Clearly more beer is needed here. From my current locale. I had one of these last night. Not bad. Relax Bra 

[zapta]

We all know political discussions don't belong here and only lead to personal attacks. Maybe this time it can be avoided?

Once again Mojo Chan's wing man comes to the help and once again he ignores rule violations by his lead man.

Well,I guess that answers that question.

Clearly more beer is needed here. From my current locale. I had one of these last night. Not bad. Relax Bra 

Once again the wing man tries an evasion by spreading chaff.   

If you really care about the debate culture here, please don't apply it selectively.

[mtdoc]

Zapta,

Reread my post. My plea to avoid political discussion and personal attacks was not directed at anyone in particular.

Many of us (myself included) are guilty of occasionally making personal attacks within the context of arguing our points in a heated debate. But there are very few here (thankfully) who make posts that are purelly personal attacks with no content related to the debate at hand. Anyone reading this forum regularly can judge for themselves who they are.

My offer of a beer was sincere. I'd buy you one in person if you were here- well it's 8:18 am here so maybe this afternoon. Back to my conference....

Cheers.

[zapta]

Zapta,

Reread my post. My plea to avoid political discussion and personal attacks was not directed at anyone in particular.

I just did and it was a reply to a quote from dannyf even though there were previous political posts by Mojo Chan.

It's a repeating pattern, I observed it in other threads as well and wouldn't mention it otherwise. Your 'call for civility' is targeted at people that disagree with your politically. In a sense, this is an abuse of the forum's rules.

As for bear drinking, if the MT in your user name stands for Montana, we will give you a call next time we travel there. It's  a beautiful state.

[Tandy]

I don't care WHERE it is made, I care about HOW it is made. If a product is made down to a price then chances are it is going to be awful. Right from the outset money is being saved, you don't blow the budget on hiring a team of specialists to design the product, you do it yourself or hire the cheapest designer to do it. Next you look at the design and take out any bits that you think are too expensive. Now you employ the services of the cheapest factory you can find, who will take advantage of poor uneducated people who are worked until they are exhausted under horrible conditions. These people have no choice but to be there as without the job they would have nothing. They don't exactly have an incentive to use their initiative to identify ways of making a better product, they take their pittance of pay home and feed their family.

The opposite approach is to spend a fortune on hiring engineers and designers, the engineers will try and tweak everything until it is as technically perfect as they can get it, while the designers will shape it into a beautiful object that probably doesn't actually do anything useful, but looks nice. It will get manufactured in a factory with 7 layers of management, extensive health and safety regulations and workers unions. Meaning that labour to build the thing costs 10x the cost of the materials to make it. You end up with a product that costs a fortune but is highly unlikely to be worth the price tag.

IMHO the best products are those that are a compromise. Designed by a sensible person or team who recognise when something is not really necessary and where extra time, effort and money should be spent to improve things. Ideally I want a product that I can see has had some thought put into it, so it does what I expect of it at a reasonable price. I am happy to accept that my moderately priced item may have some limitations compared to top-of-the range items, but at the same time I don't want something that will fall apart because someone tried to save 20c by using a plastic clip instead of a metal one. I'd rather pay a little extra to get something useable.

The trouble is that is not how the market tends to work. On the one hand you have the business that competes on price, and we consumers all love a bargain so to remain competitive there is a race to the bottom. On the other there is a need to 'justify' the extra expense, by adding features that are useless to most, or putting some fancy designers name on it and making it trendy. Rarely do you get a product that is just pretty well made at a reasonable price, no matter what country it is made in.

[dannyf]

I don't care WHERE it is made, I care about HOW it is made.

To assess how it is made requires a lot more expertise than to assess where it is made.

That's why so many people equate where it is  made to how it is made.

[mtdoc]

Your 'call for civility' is targeted at people that disagree with your politically.

Nope. It's directed at everyone, including myself.

(BTW, despite you assumptions, my politics only partly overlap with mc's. They also partly overlap with yours).

As for bear drinking, if the MT in your user name stands for Montana, we will give you a call next time we travel there. It's  a beautiful state.

I used to live im MT, now I live in WA in the mountains. But I'm currently in HI.

[zapta]

I don't care WHERE it is made, I care about HOW it is made.

That's a very good point. Apple for example manufactures in China but owns the design and process.

As for countries with specialities, the UK has some of the best small wheel bike designs, Brompton, Molton and Strida. Some affordable, some cost more than 15K GPB.

[smjcuk]

Apple make some of the most dangerous and stupid kit there is. I've had a macbook catch fire on my lap for reference.

[zapta]

Apple make some of the most dangerous and stupid kit there is. I've had a macbook catch fire on my lap for reference.

An anecdote doesn't make statistical significance.

[smjcuk]

At least you can isolate the power on most of them. I had to throw the damn thing in the garden and watch it burn.

Lenovo ThinkPad all the way now.

[smjcuk]

Apple make some of the most dangerous and stupid kit there is. I've had a macbook catch fire on my lap for reference.

An anecdote doesn't make statistical significance.

Yep you're right. Several watt-hours of energy sitting there with no manual isolation is significant though.

For ref it wasn't the battery that exploded. It was something in the screen/lid that shorted, arced and set fire to the keyboard. I was in the room. If I could have yanked the battery then it wouldn't have escalated to a fire that burned my table and a large hole in my lawn.

That's simply bad and dangerous design.

Tried to talk to someone at apple and I got absolutely nothing back. So insurer sorted it out.

[HighVoltage]

Lenovo ThinkPad all the way now.

+1
For years I have been using the Lenovo ThinkPad's and they are just perfect, if you take their good quality one, either
"p" in the name for professional series or the "W" for the workstation series.
Actually the "W" series is so good, it runs my CAD software more stable and faster than on my normal workstation.

[smjcuk]

Lenovo ThinkPad all the way now.

+1
For years I have been using the Lenovo ThinkPad's and they are just perfect, if you take their good quality one, either
"p" in the name for professional series or the "W" for the workstation series.
Actually the "W" series is so good, it runs my CAD software more stable and faster than on my normal workstation.

Yep this. I've got an X-series (X201) -  the tiny ones. It's 4 years old but it has a docking station and I have two 17" Lenovo monitors and a keyboard and wireless mouse attached to it. Just plonk it down, shut the lid and it's a workstation class machine. i7, 16Gb of RAM, 256Gb Samsung SSD. Proper scary fast machine.

However I'm now sitting in the car with it on my lap while the better half has a hospital appointment, thanks to the 3G card it has built in and the battery has 7 hours left...

And it cost me less than a new Chromebook last year including the docking station and monitors!