Youtube "how to" videos are mostly useless

[soldar]

Even leaving aside the obvious fakes and scams I find most videos quite useless. I search for "how to make X" and I get a bunch of videos where some guy is seen working with his tools for 30 or 40 minutes and, at the end, he has made something.

If it is wood he is seen using the table saw, the drill, some hardware... and in the end he made some piece of furniture or something.

If it is metal then he is seen using a lathe, a drill press, maybe a milling machine and in the end he made something.

If it is basic electronics he is seen soldering a few things together and in the end he has made something useless.

I just don't get it.

I know how to use tools. If I didn't know how to use tools I would be searching for videos on how to use those tools.

If i want to build a structure, a piece of furniture, a metal thing,a tool, an electronic circuit then what I am looking for is plans, ideas, designs, drawings, diagrams, schematics. A tutorial on everything I need to know, what I should look out for.  That is what I need. Not just watch some random dude in his workshop doing things. That contributes nothing to what I am looking for.

I have to wonder if those videos are directed at people who know nothing on the subject and just like watching other people work.

I want a good intro an what you are going to build. What is the finished product. Then a good explanation on how to go about it. I do not want to see a video where the guy just starts out cutting lumber in a mysterious fashion.

Just give me a set of plans and don't waste my time.

And get off my lawn! Sheesh!

[soldar]

And this was supposed to go in the general chatter channel but I put it in the repair section by mistake.

Absent-minded and grouchy. I think I need my morning coffee.

[elektryk]

If it is basic electronics he is seen soldering a few things together and in the end he has made something useless.

Yeah, a lot of stuff that can't even work in a real world, especially those free energy related.

[Nominal Animal]

Even leaving aside the obvious fakes and scams I find most videos quite useless.

I, too, don't think howto/tutorial videos are sufficient for conveying such information.

I once got into an argument with Dave about how useful tutorial videos are.  Dave ended up calling me a troll. :'(  I don't think I was expressing my position clearly at all.

I know there are people who prefer videos, and obtain sufficient information from them, but I always worry that they only get a superficial understanding, only enough to look like they understand; that they do not understand enough to correctly apply the understanding in real world situations.

The best videos are the ones that describe the reasons behind the choices in the plans or implementation.  Stuff like "this gusset is here to support the join in case of forces in this direction, and that cross member spreads the load between these points", or "to transfer these signals over 1m distance, we're using twisted-pair cable with a shield foil/mesh and differential signaling" or "the primary winding is triple-insulated, which helps avoid shorting mains to the low-voltage side; this is good for safety".

I particularly like the teardown videos by AvE (BOLTR), BigClive, and DiodesGoneWild.  It is never just "this is good, buy this" or "this is bad, don't buy this", but an examination of what in the thing is done well, and what is iffy or downright dangerous.  You need practical experience to do that, and the videos are like looking over the shoulder of a talkative old hand who is telling what they see and think.  It is not that their opinions matter much, it is more that they describe the reasons, experience, and logic behind those opinions; and those are the valuable part that is difficult to obtain except through lots of practical experience.

Funnily enough, I often encounter the exact opposite in higher math, where the disposition centers on proving some statement or other is formally correct, but applying it for solving real-world problems is usually left "as an exercise": exactly the opposite to what is most useful to me and people like me!  Seeing Bessel functions still makes me cranky.

Thus, I do admit that there are people who get everything they need out of tutorial videos and similar material, but I don't; and I worry that of those who claim they do, most get an understanding that is too superficial/simplified to actually apply in practice.

[JohanH]

I have to wonder if those videos are directed at people who know nothing on the subject and just like watching other people work.

Pretty much the whole idea with Youtube. Entertainment and views.

As soon as you concentrate on design, engineering, or any profession really, you narrow down the potential viewer base and don't earn any money (there are of course a few exceptions). I see this in many areas. Many have tried taking their profession to Youtube and tried to make a respectful amount of educational videos. They get a few hundred views, so they don't earn any money. Then they start doing these stupid Reaction Videos, in where they sit and stare on a video clip of someone else doing something and possibly giving their expert opinion about it. Suddenly they have tens of thousands of views. It's ridiculous.

Look for a reference to a blog, web page or github with design plans. Or their videos are 30 to 60 minutes and consists of several parts. These ones are serious, but few and far between.

[jpanhalt]

I have to wonder if those videos are directed at people who know nothing on the subject and just like watching other people work.

Some videos are helpful.  Most seem to be posted to get views = money or for marketing.  Those how to's show some pretty miserable methods used by hacks.  Once in awhile something is useful.  Dave's (EEVBlog owner) are useful. I wish there were a way to do a search and exclude YT videos.

[Mechatrommer]

Even leaving aside the obvious fakes and scams I find most videos quite useless. I search for "how to make X" and I get a bunch of videos where some guy is seen working with his tools for 30 or 40 minutes and, at the end, he has made something.

much more useful than someone shooting lifestyle in bars drinking beers or some random political opinions talks or someone stretching and spreading butts in the morning (fun no doubt). those videos you mentioned imho can give more ideas how things get done to beginners and even experienced. for experienced they know it could take days to complete, but in videos you can see the whole process in few minutes. for beginners they may get excited but once they try to do it, thats where the real life and learning begins. cheers.

[tggzzz]

Even leaving aside the obvious fakes and scams I find most videos quite useless. I search for "how to make X" and I get a bunch of videos where some guy is seen working with his tools for 30 or 40 minutes and, at the end, he has made something.

True for more than "how to" yoootooob vids.

Most vids are "talking heads" full of ums and ahs - far too long for the content.

Most vids are "look at meeee, Amn't I klever" - when they aren't.

Most vids content could be better expressed in a few words.

I can speed read far faster than I watch videos.

When I was growing up, information was scarce - so the key skill was to carefully examine everything you could get to extract all you could learn.
Nowadays the key skill is the opposite: there is are so many things clamouring for our attention that the key skill is how to quickly decide what to ignore.

99.99% of yoootoob vids are a waste of my remaining life. There has to be a demonstrable reason explained in advance for me to watch them.

[armandine2]

I have watched a few of the Ben Eater 8-bit computer videos.

These were made to be followed step-by-step and appear to me to work ok. 

Success, perhaps due to Ben's educational focus and his previous experience, and I think, a backroom team in production.

[eutectique]

Just give me a set of plans and don't waste my time.

The good thing is that you can rather quickly identify the YT channels which post void crap, blacklist them, move on, and don't waste your time any more. Rarely, how-to YT videos have links to sites with "16000 woodworking plans" or such more stuff. These sites are not free.

If you demand useful and practical information -- pay for it.

[Mechatrommer]

duh! why ask for plan? make it yourself! it shouldnt be so hard is it?

[fmashockie]

I disagree with the OP.  In today's world where manufacturers who make any type of electronic aren't releasing resources to help repair their products, YouTube can be a more powerful tool than ever to help the customer repair the product themselves. 

Some YT creators are better than others at conveying information.  Some have become professionals at it like Dave Jones and others might just be putting up one video that they think could help someone else.  Have you ever watched w2aew's channel?  He provides tons of how-to videos on different EE topics (novice to advance) and he is an excellent teacher.  Probably one of the best IMO.  And there are many others out there like him - you just need to find them.

I started my own channel last year.  It is more of a videoblog to document my experience learning electronics.  It has helped me continue to learn because people with more experience will comment and provide me more information on the circuit I might be working on than I knew before.  At the same time, I get people commenting from all over the world asking for help repairing their own products.  It's pretty cool!  I'm also a Lab Instrumentation Engineer working on lab equipment where the manufacturers of said equipment are nortorius for keeping all info on how to fix thier products propriety.  So I'll put a video up on fixing one of these pieces of equipment to help someone else in my position who has no resources. 

I do agree with some of what others have said in that everyone has different motives for putting up their videos.  And people have different reasons for watching them.  But regardless, they are far from useless.

[soldar]

I disagree with the OP.
...
I started my own channel last year. 

Well, you would disagree, wouldn't you?

Let me expand my OP. There are channels that are entertainment, comedy, etc and they are fine for those who are entertained by them. There are even channels, like This Old Tony, where comedy is an important part of the show.

There are channels that deal primarily with tools and how to use them, metalworking tools, woodworking tools, electronic etc. Fine as long as they are done competently. Stumpy Nubs comes to mind.

But I am referring very specifically for videos I get when I search for "How to do X" or "how to build X". Clearly I want to build X and what I want is a video where the guy first of all shows the finished product and explains the basics, the advantages and the limitations, the pros and the cons, the materials and tools needed, etc.

I do not want to get started on a video where I am going to watch a guy working in his shop for 35 minutes, not even knowing what he is building, and have to wait to the end to see if it suits my needs. Nope. Sorry. Not watching.

Also not interested in clickbaitty nebulous titles like "why don't welders do this?".

Also, as has been said, guys who are wasting time with ums and hums while the figure things out, like I am their friend there just keeping them company. Nope. Sorry. Don't waste my time.

Matthias Wandel is pretty good in that he starts out explaining the issue he is going to solve and how he is going to solve it. He does not waste time. Cutting, drilling and other routine operations are speeded up. Good because I've seen a table saw cutting wood a million times already and I have no interest in seeing it again. He explains the how to do it and that is enough. His audio could be better but I guess it can be overlooked.

This rant was triggered because I thought of making a sheet metal brake, to bend sheet metal and make enclosure boxes for electronics. Most of the videos suggested by YouTube were absolute crap. If I do go ahead to build a sheet metal brake I will probably start by making my own design. YouTube is not helpful.

[JPortici]

Youtube "how to" videos are mostly useless

disagree. howtobasic taught me most of what i know

[Mechatrommer]

Nope. Sorry. Not watching...
Don't waste my time...

so dont waste your time on the things you are complaining! or use the magic feature arrowed below to know whats its all about... granted youtube is 99% useless uploaded by content wannabis, but that 1% is large more than anyone can handle anyway... free tv and infotainment as never before... ymmv.

[tggzzz]

But I am referring very specifically for videos I get when I search for "How to do X" or "how to build X". Clearly I want to build X and what I want is a video where the guy first of all shows the finished product and explains the basics, the advantages and the limitations, the pros and the cons, the materials and tools needed, etc.

Almost guaranteed to be better explained on paper, especially if they bother to include tables indicating the relative merits of different aspects of different tools.

I do not want to get started on a video where I am going to watch a guy working in his shop for 35 minutes, not even knowing what he is building, and have to wait to the end to see if it suits my needs. Nope. Sorry. Not watching.

Also not interested in clickbaitty nebulous titles like "why don't welders do this?".

Also, as has been said, guys who are wasting time with ums and hums while the figure things out, like I am their friend there just keeping them company. Nope. Sorry. Don't waste my time.

Good decisions

There are some good videos...

CGP Grey (sometimes) speeds entertainingly through complex topics.

The paceworldwide basic soldering lessons make good use of video - i.e. they show how solder moves well and poorly. They were made for professional audiences (duration==money) when making and distributing videos was difficult and expensive. Hence they planned and scripted the damn things, something that escapes mot yootoob creators.

TheSignalPath also deals with interesting complex subjects, but they could mostly be done on paper.

[tggzzz]

Nope. Sorry. Not watching...
Don't waste my time...

so dont waste your time on the things you are complaining! or use the magic feature arrowed below to know whats its all about... granted youtube is 99% useless uploaded by content wannabis, but that 1% is large more than anyone can handle anyway... free tv and infotainment as never before... ymmv.

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

N.B.: speech is ~60 words/minute. I can speed read (to determine whether it is worth reading in detail) at >1000wpm. Yoootoob videos are a >20:1 slowdown.

20:1 and 0.1% worthwhile is a very bad tradeoff.

[langwadt]

This rant was triggered because I thought of making a sheet metal brake, to bend sheet metal and make enclosure boxes for electronics. Most of the videos suggested by YouTube were absolute crap. If I do go ahead to build a sheet metal brake I will probably start by making my own design. YouTube is not helpful.

if you are capable of build a sheet metal brake, you don't need to be spoon feed every single process or exact measurement, what you need is seeing how various designs functions and how well they seem to work, as inspiration for you own. youtube is excellent for that 

[langwadt]

Nope. Sorry. Not watching...
Don't waste my time...

so dont waste your time on the things you are complaining! or use the magic feature arrowed below to know whats its all about... granted youtube is 99% useless uploaded by content wannabis, but that 1% is large more than anyone can handle anyway... free tv and infotainment as never before... ymmv.

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

N.B.: speech is ~60 words/minute. I can speed read (to determine whether it is worth reading in detail) at >1000wpm. Yoootoob videos are a >20:1 slowdown.

20:1 and 0.1% worthwhile is a very bad tradeoff.

that depends, if you want information or you want to see how something is assembled or functions

[thm_w]

If you are looking for "plans" then a site that hosts videos is not the ideal location to look.
Google "plans xyz" or look around on instructables. Literal first google result: https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Sheet-Metal-Bender-Brake/
Having a video that shows plans on the screen would be boring. Some will link their plans if they've bothered to create them, but often its just some one off build based on what parts they had on hand.

Terrible rant.

[Veteran68]

I have learned an enormous amount from YouTube, across a wide variety of subjects including electronics. It's why I've paid for a Premium membership for many years now. Sure, the signal to noise ratio can be a problem, but when I find a good channel I subscribe to it and check it regularly and don't waste a lot of time on useless videos unless I'm only looking for entertainment.

Put it this way: my YouTube to TV ratio is probably somewhere around 1000:1. And I have multiple 4K TVs all over the house with Apple TVs and a subscription to almost every streaming service you can name (certainly the big ones). The family benefits more from that than I do.

[Kim Christensen]

Yea, it's hard to sort the junk from the gems. Some tasks do lend themselves to video format quite well, like how to do some specific mechanical task such as bleeding the brake system on a car.
But as for building an electronics project, video really sucks when all we need is a schematic, mech drawings, parts list, etc. Video usually adds very little value.
I find myself watching many YouTube instructional videos at 1.5x or even 2x speed just because the creator talks too slow or takes forever to get to the point. 

[soldar]

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

N.B.: speech is ~60 words/minute. I can speed read (to determine whether it is worth reading in detail) at >1000wpm. Yoootoob videos are a >20:1 slowdown.

20:1 and 0.1% worthwhile is a very bad tradeoff.

Exactly. I miss the old magazine articles where they would present a project in just a few pages. With just a few seconds you could have a look at the intro and the illustrations and know if it was something which might interest you. You could skip forward or back, you could stop to review something specific.

No doubt though that video has an advantage when needing to illustrate movements or certain techniques.

I am referring only to videos about how to build this or that. I am not referring to humor or comedy or interviews or arts, etc.  I am referring to things like "how to build your own diesel-electric submarine" and all you see is a guy welding for a long time.

[tggzzz]

Nope. Sorry. Not watching...
Don't waste my time...

so dont waste your time on the things you are complaining! or use the magic feature arrowed below to know whats its all about... granted youtube is 99% useless uploaded by content wannabis, but that 1% is large more than anyone can handle anyway... free tv and infotainment as never before... ymmv.

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

N.B.: speech is ~60 words/minute. I can speed read (to determine whether it is worth reading in detail) at >1000wpm. Yoootoob videos are a >20:1 slowdown.

20:1 and 0.1% worthwhile is a very bad tradeoff.

that depends, if you want information or you want to see how something is assembled or functions

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to there.

The point about wasted time is true w.r.t. assembly, w.r.t. functions, w.r.t. entertains, w.r.t. .... whatever you are looking for.

The USP of videos is movement+images. There are very few technical videos where moving pictures are vital; I mentioned the Pace soldering videos as being one of the few examples where movement and pictures are important.

[Chris56000]

I'll quote my case in point!

I was asked to look at an Epson XP–620 inkjet printer for a friend's mate, which stopped allowing third–party cartridges due to a forced firmware update on the part of Epson!

. . . Anyway I found I needed to reflash an old Firmware, which Epson had taken great care to remove all downloads of, but I eventually got a copy emailed to me, which installed correctly.

. . .Whilst the printer was going thro' cleaning and nozzle–check cycles there was a smell of burning from inside and some distinctly unhealthy fizzing noises!

. . .On a Y.T. search for assistance for this issue I found :–

a) ONE video explaining Epson Fatal Errors with no resolution ;

b) Over FORTY commercial "Waste Ink Reset" scam videos ;

c) Over TWENTY "unboxing" videos!

. . .Why do people waste so much effort and time clogging up You Tube with stupid "Unboxing" videos that serve no useful purpose whatsoever?!

There wasn't ONE useful video offering any repair advice on these printers whatsoever !

Chris Williams

PS!

I haven't produced any videos myself, mainly because my voice sounds absolutely atrocious played back through recording/amplifying equipment, and also because an illustrated "Reader's Digest Repair Manual" style step–by–step guide with well written picture captions serves to illustrate the principles just as well, and is far easier to photograph and prepare!

[thm_w]

There wasn't ONE useful video offering any repair advice on these printers whatsoever !

So then the information isn't out there, what is your point exactly? Every possible repair of every product should be well documented on youtube?

[tszaboo]

Nope. Sorry. Not watching...
Don't waste my time...

so dont waste your time on the things you are complaining! or use the magic feature arrowed below to know whats its all about... granted youtube is 99% useless uploaded by content wannabis, but that 1% is large more than anyone can handle anyway... free tv and infotainment as never before... ymmv.

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

N.B.: speech is ~60 words/minute. I can speed read (to determine whether it is worth reading in detail) at >1000wpm. Yoootoob videos are a >20:1 slowdown.

20:1 and 0.1% worthwhile is a very bad tradeoff.

You make a website describing stuff, you get 100 views a month, zero monetization, thousands of spam posts and you need to pay for hosting. The tube gets you 1000 times more visitors, and you get paid for it. Do the math.

[soldar]

There wasn't ONE useful video offering any repair advice on these printers whatsoever !

So then the information isn't out there, what is your point exactly? Every possible repair of every product should be well documented on youtube?

His point seems quite obvious to me: that there are a ton of videos that are a waste of time.

[thm_w]

His point seems quite obvious to me: that there are a ton of videos that are a waste of time.

Then don't watch them. If the first ~10 videos when searching for "epson inkjet burning" aren't clearly relevant based on the title, move on to a google search, or acknowledge the info isn't out there.
Usually printer problems are not model specific, so searching just for a model number, I'd expect to get unboxings and reviews not repairs.

First google result: https://bchtechnologies.com/blog/how-to-fix-a-burnt-printhead-on-your-epson-printer/

[soldar]

You make a website describing stuff, you get 100 views a month, zero monetization, thousands of spam posts and you need to pay for hosting. The tube gets you 1000 times more visitors, and you get paid for it. Do the math.

This is something I do not quite understand. YouTube, like forum sites, get content from outside creators and manage to (hopefully) make some profit after paying expenses.

For regular website pages there used to exist places like Geocities but they have pretty much disappeared. Surely it must be much cheaper to host a few pages with text and pictures than to host and serve video.

I used to have my pages in Geocities. Then I moved to hosting I had to pay and when the price skyrocketed I just took them down . I do not understand why I cannot find free or very low cost hosting.

[Mechatrommer]

I was asked to look at an Epson XP–620 inkjet printer for a friend's mate, which stopped allowing third–party cartridges due to a forced firmware update on the part of Epson!

there was a (pirate i think) website selling pdfs for cheap for repair most of consumers electronics stuffs, the few that i have canon dslr, lenses, epsons printer etc, complete diagram, exploded views and steps ect inside, pretty much can solve all my problems. now the website no more, probably taken down by copyright infringement / anti piracy agency. at least i'm happy that i bought as much as i can while its still up even the things not in my possession yet. if you nitpick on youtube alone surely you are doomed.

I miss the old magazine articles where they would present a project in just a few pages. With just a few seconds you could have a look at the intro and the illustrations and know if it was something which might interest you. You could skip forward or back, you could stop to review something specific.

i wasted money on circuit cellar subscription for some years. i still keep hundreds of pdf that i subscribed, maybe only 0.1% content read. want to find a topic of interest? go through the first few pages of content list, if its not there, browse all the hundreds of pdf there. time saving? speed reading? yeah right, maybe not for me. there's only maybe like 0.1% of things that i searched i cannot find in google/internet/youtube/etc... if you want books, there are few if not many paid subscriptions out there... go look for them and enjoy.

[tggzzz]

Nope. Sorry. Not watching...
Don't waste my time...

so dont waste your time on the things you are complaining! or use the magic feature arrowed below to know whats its all about... granted youtube is 99% useless uploaded by content wannabis, but that 1% is large more than anyone can handle anyway... free tv and infotainment as never before... ymmv.

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

N.B.: speech is ~60 words/minute. I can speed read (to determine whether it is worth reading in detail) at >1000wpm. Yoootoob videos are a >20:1 slowdown.

20:1 and 0.1% worthwhile is a very bad tradeoff.

You make a website describing stuff, you get 100 views a month, zero monetization, thousands of spam posts and you need to pay for hosting. The tube gets you 1000 times more visitors, and you get paid for it. Do the math.

I do my arithmetic, as I noted.

They do their arithmetic

The difference is why yoootoob is almost entirely a waste of my time. (Of course I don't care about their time!)

[tggzzz]

There wasn't ONE useful video offering any repair advice on these printers whatsoever !

So then the information isn't out there, what is your point exactly? Every possible repair of every product should be well documented on youtube?

The amount of his remaining life wasted by people falsely leading him to believe they have the answer he is looking for.

Much less time would wasted with irrelevant printed material.

[tggzzz]

I used to have my pages in Geocities. Then I moved to hosting I had to pay and when the price skyrocketed I just took them down . I do not understand why I cannot find free or very low cost hosting.

Wordpress.com gives 3GB (?) free, but only of some filetypes.

[CatalinaWOW]

I come down in the middle.  A blanket condemnation of YouTube videos seems inappropriate.  But I do agree that it is often a frustrating medium.  A great many of the presenters enjoy the sounds of their own voice too much, spend too much time setting the stage for what they are doing or whatever.  My boredom threshold is exceeded long before I even really understand where they are going.  And there is plenty of scam material and material from people who should really learn to tie their shoes before trying to teach someone else how to do something.

After saying all of that, I really do learn a lot from the videos.  Sometimes a better way to use my tools.  Sometimes a tool I didn't know I needed.  How to reach the damned connector for an automotive sensor that is buried between the firewall and the engine.  And many similar things.  While tggzzz is right, reading is a lot faster, I can absorb the YouTube material while sweeping the floor or doing other mentally non-challenging tasks that would be difficult while perusing a paper document.  And that presumes that an appropriate paper document exists.  It is hard to write a good document on how to get to that buried automotive sensor, but there seem to be a lot of both professional and back yard mechanics that can put up a video that is useful for this type of thing.

YouTubes algorithm for suggesting videos isn't too bad.  It has learned that I really am not interested in the flat earth material, the gotcha political stories, and all the other drivel that populates the channel.  At least 10-20% of what it suggests that I view I actually find useful or entertaining.  And that is a rich enough vein for me to continue processing the ore.

[thm_w]

The amount of his remaining life wasted by people falsely leading him to believe they have the answer he is looking for.

Much less time would wasted with irrelevant printed material.

No one falsely mislead anyone. Search for "epson XP–620" on youtube, see no repair videos and move on. Every video in the top ten is clearly labeled as to being a review or unboxing video.

Of course youtube clickbait and scam videos exist, but this is not an example of that at all. All of the specific examples given in this thread so far are just people not understanding how and where to search for content.

[wilfred]

Just give me a set of plans and don't waste my time.

The videos aren't made with just you in mind. You have to do the work finding the one someone made with you in mind. Of the rest of the videos you may find out what you don't want to do.

And yeah there are a lot of videos of people just making something which isn't always helpful of entertaining. It isn't new, just look at most cooking shows on TV, only a small portion of the audience will ever make the recipes. For the rest it is just entertainment and possibly collecting ideas.

I watch Cutting Edge Engineering every Friday even though I will never own a lathe or fix broken parts of heavy earthmoving equipment. But even with being a niche Australian channel he still has 750,000 subscribers and some videos attract millions of views. Even Adam Savage from Mythbusters is a fan.

[rsjsouza]

This is a rant repeated to oblivion and the generalization carries zero merit. It is similar to say that Google is useless because it returns 110.000 hits on a subject and most of them are off-topic. You can get better at handling the search tool and its switches/syntax. Also, the more you use it, the more you develop a feel for the type and quality of content based on the title and the channel/website.

I have used the platform to create "how-to" videos for GUIs that carry much higher information value amd lead to a much faster resolution when compared to a wall of text. Explaining menu options, right-clicks and other events (which ironically are sometimes shown in an animated GIF no less) are less efficient in text. Concomittantly, I also created long form user's guides and quick tips in text form, only to notice how short span attention is prevalent these days. A large number of people complain there is no user's guide, then when pointed out to it, don't read and ask questions where answers are easily searchable in the documentation.

At last, as tzaboo mentioned, the financials are extremely favourable to publish content on Youtube, Odysee, etc.

[IanB]

I want a good intro an what you are going to build. What is the finished product. Then a good explanation on how to go about it. I do not want to see a video where the guy just starts out cutting lumber in a mysterious fashion.

Just give me a set of plans and don't waste my time.

I think there are some exceptions.

For example, with wood working, Matthias Wandel ("Woodgears") gives a good overview of his thought process, shows construction in detail, and includes mistakes to watch out for.

If you want plans, he has very detailed plans for many of his projects available from his website.

Another excellent resource for machining is Clickspring. Very detailed explanations of every step with 11/10 production quality. I have no idea how he does it.

I think YouTube is so big it takes time to sort the gold from the dross.

[langwadt]

I want a good intro an what you are going to build. What is the finished product. Then a good explanation on how to go about it. I do not want to see a video where the guy just starts out cutting lumber in a mysterious fashion.

Just give me a set of plans and don't waste my time.

I think there are some exceptions.

For example, with wood working, Matthias Wandel ("Woodgears") gives a good overview of his thought process, shows construction in detail, and includes mistakes to watch out for.

If you want plans, he has very detailed plans for many of his projects available from his website.

he's said before that most seem buy plans as way to support him and very few actually get to building the thing

[SiliconWizard]

Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
- Then, don't do that.

[jonovid]

some more useless I have seen on youtube

jump starting anything with a 9 volt battery
soldering through hole components together without any pcb or symmetric diagram. as in extreme dead bug soldering.
working with 240 volts AC, as if it was safe 12 volts DC. as in dangerous wiring
inserting anything but a drill bit into a drill chuck.
mixing food with anything.
using hot glue to hold anything. fasten a motor without bolts.

[xrunner]

Perhaps I've been lucky lately, but I've found quite a few very good videos on a variety of subjects.

Installing a Micro Air Easy start
How car painters blend paints on a body repair
Pakistani mechanics and how they repir big equipment
Crimping wire connectors (various kinds)

And my new favorite - LaurieWired - which deals with how malware and such things are reversed engineered. 

[themadhippy]

inserting anything but a drill bit into a drill chuck.

And whats wrong with that?

[elektryk]

some more useless I have seen on youtube

jump starting anything with a 9 volt battery
soldering through hole components together without any pcb or symmetric diagram. as in extreme dead bug soldering.
working with 240 volts AC, as if it was safe 12 volts DC. as in dangerous wiring
inserting anything but a drill bit into a drill chuck.
mixing food with anything.
using hot glue to hold anything. fasten a motor without bolts.

1000 DEGREE KNIFE VS
(but some of such videos are interesting indeed)

Pakistani mechanics and how they repir big equipment

I like to watch them too, its quite entertaining.

[Nominal Animal]

After saying all of that, I really do learn a lot from the videos.  Sometimes a better way to use my tools.  Sometimes a tool I didn't know I needed.  How to reach the damned connector for an automotive sensor that is buried between the firewall and the engine.  And many similar things.

"Tips and tricks" type of videos, as well as tutorials on how to effectively and safely use a tool, are indeed useful.  (Clickspring, Joe Pie, Blondihacks, Keith Appleton, et cetera.)

There are also quite a few two-minute or shorter videos on how to open various laptops and tablets without damaging anything, and those are excellent, better than a text-with-pictures.  In fact, the ones I like don't even need any audio, as the visual steps suffice.

Dave's jellybean component videos (or rather, their audio!) are similarly useful.  Something you might learn from a more experienced coworker or adviser at a sequence of coffee breaks or one-on-one brainstorming sessions.  Very useful.

So yes, there definitely are things best described using a video/audio; no question about that.

As I understood the topic of this thread, and how I answered, was on the statistical side: the proliferation of using videos to present advice in cases where a video is a poor format for it.

The worst negative examples I can think of are math tutorials.  Presenting the needed steps with short sentences explaining what is done at each step and why allows each learner to proceed at their own pace, and concentrate on the detail they have most trouble with.

When I was at the university, I often annoyed other students by asking the lecturer why a specific solution approach was chosen.  Annoyingly often the answer was a variation of "because it works", which meant that the lecture itself was useless to people like myself who assume that the mathematical proof of the method stands, and are only interested in applying the method to solve "real-world" problems.  For example, I still have not found any description for choosing a solution method for partial differential equations other than "try each until one works".  I know such a method works, because ask any mathematician, and they'll show you the working method in real time; I just haven't found one who can explain what they based their choice on (except "I've seen this form before").  Even Arfken-Weber-Harris ("Mathematical Methods for Physicists") scatters the solution methods all over, as if they were completely different things –– and of course, to a mathematician the methods are different, with the only connection being that they can be applied to the same general type of problem.

The mathematicians I've complained about this just give me the side eye, O.o, o.O,
They don't seem to understand at all what I'm complaining about.

Similarly, like I mentioned in my earlier post, I do believe some people get all they want from videos.  I do not, and I do not trust that all who get what they want from videos alone, actually get an understanding sufficient to apply in the real world successfully.
I do get more than a bit frustrated when those people assert that because they believe they themselves do get sufficient understanding from videos, everyone must also, and that anyone complaining otherwise is just stuck in the old times and complaining out of contrariness.

[tggzzz]

"Tips and tricks" type of videos, as well as tutorials on how to effectively and safely use a tool, are indeed useful.  (Clickspring, Joe Pie, Blondihacks, Keith Appleton, et cetera.)

There are also quite a few two-minute or shorter videos on how to open various laptops and tablets without damaging anything, and those are excellent, better than a text-with-pictures.  In fact, the ones I like don't even need any audio, as the visual steps suffice.
...
So yes, there definitely are things best described using a video/audio; no question about that.

Agreed and agreed, because "short" and "moving" and "text superfluous".

The worst negative examples I can think of are math tutorials.  Presenting the needed steps with short sentences explaining what is done at each step and why allows each learner to proceed at their own pace, and concentrate on the detail they have most trouble with.

When I was at the university, I often annoyed other students by asking the lecturer why a specific solution approach was chosen.  Annoyingly often the answer was a variation of "because it works", which meant that the lecture itself was useless to people like myself who assume that the mathematical proof of the method stands, and are only interested in applying the method to solve "real-world" problems.  For example, I still have not found any description for choosing a solution method for partial differential equations other than "try each until one works".  I know such a method works, because ask any mathematician, and they'll show you the working method in real time; I just haven't found one who can explain what they based their choice on (except "I've seen this form before").  Even Arfken-Weber-Harris ("Mathematical Methods for Physicists") scatters the solution methods all over, as if they were completely different things –– and of course, to a mathematician the methods are different, with the only connection being that they can be applied to the same general type of problem.

Agreed. But don't forget the large books in the library containing mathematical functions/operations. Using them is a case of visual scanning and pattern matching until something suitable is found. Mathematicians were (are?) addicted to them.

Also don't forget something as basic as integer division is a process of successive iteration. Subtract repeatedly until you've gone too far, and then reverse, and repeat with the remainder. That is very obvious when you see how mechanical calculators operate. You have to crank the lever several times in one direction until a bell rings, then reverse one crank, shift left and repeat.

PDEs and to a lesser extent integration is also similar trial and error.

I do get more than a bit frustrated when those people assert that because they believe they themselves do get sufficient understanding from videos, everyone must also, and that anyone complaining otherwise is just stuck in the old times and complaining out of contrariness.

That is, IMNSHO, a classic indicator of Dunning-Kruger syndrome. While it may be sufficient for monkey-see-monkey-do tasks, it will be insufficient for many novel innovative tasks.

[Nominal Animal]

I do get more than a bit frustrated when those people assert that because they believe they themselves do get sufficient understanding from videos, everyone must also, and that anyone complaining otherwise is just stuck in the old times and complaining out of contrariness.

That is, IMNSHO, a classic indicator of Dunning-Kruger syndrome. While it may be sufficient for monkey-see-monkey-do tasks, it will be insufficient for many novel innovative tasks.

To be clear, I was not actually referring to anyone participating in this thread, any past thread here, or any personal messages sent to me!

I was remembering the few cases where I was tutoring or trying to help a teen, and reached for a book or suggested a chapter in a book, and they responded with something along the lines of "can't you find a video for me instead?" followed by a frustrating discussion about what is understanding, what is knowledge and application of understanding, and what is copying and learning by rote.

I only realized just now that that part could be read as if I was railing against anyone asking if I knew a good video on some subject; that's not the case at all.  For example, RoGeorge recently asked me for advice on a good Python GUI tutorial book/article/blog/video in the Programming / Python thread, but I couldn't give any because I haven't seen any.  (I ended up posting an example instead.)  There is absolutely nothing wrong in considering multiple different sources, and even falling back to Youtube when nothing better can be found!

When tutoring teens in math and physics, the hardest part is getting them over the "I don't know how to do this!" / "I can't do this!" mindset.
(There is no "can" or "cannot", there is only "try and see what happens".  Force and Magic can smell my butt.  Take it one step at a time, no matter how unsurmountable the problem might look now.)
I believe this mindset is related to the quick and easy answers that proliferate on the internet, with actual understanding requiring effort that is not normally rewarded or required, leading to the superficiality and short-term objectives; with videos preferred over written text simply because they require minimal (cognitive) effort to pass the minimum requirements.

The meme version of my complaint is "I don't wanna read that, it's too long.  Can't you make it a TikTok video instead?"

[coppice]

If the how to video is how to fix something, they are usually quite valuable. They may not give you a complete way to do a good fix, but boy can they save you time figuring out where all the obscure fixings are, without poking around on the real product so much you break something.

[tggzzz]

To be clear, I was not actually referring to anyone participating in this thread, any past thread here, or any personal messages sent to me!

I, at least, never thought you were

When tutoring teens in math and physics, the hardest part is getting them over the "I don't know how to do this!" / "I can't do this!" mindset.

Yes, in that and other areas By that age they have learned to deploy passive-aggressive strategic incompetence whenever they don't want to do something!

[tggzzz]

If the how to video is how to fix something, they are usually quite valuable. They may not give you a complete way to do a good fix, but boy can they save you time figuring out where all the obscure fixings are, without poking around on the real product so much you break something.

That can be true, especially with modern electronics. I used one when replacing a screen on my Hudl tablet.

I still had to actively avoid several pieces of crap.

[IanB]

For example, I still have not found any description for choosing a solution method for partial differential equations other than "try each until one works".  I know such a method works, because ask any mathematician, and they'll show you the working method in real time; I just haven't found one who can explain what they based their choice on (except "I've seen this form before").

Interesting. I would say the answer is one of pattern matching. You could probably train a machine to recognize which solution method to apply given a sufficiently large training set of PDEs. With experience, a human brain could apply the same learning. We tend to call this "intuition", but in reality there is no such thing. Intuition is just a fancy word for "I can guess what to do because I see a pattern in the data."

[CatalinaWOW]

I want to double down on one of my prior points.  A good textual document is more than enough for almost all of the topics mentioned in this thread.  Such a text is difficult to generate for most people, and the number who can do it well is in my opinion declining in this video focussed era.  Meanwhile the number who can do an adequate or better job of video content creation is increasing.

This partially changes the discussion from suitability to availability.  Trash text content has always existed.  Time winnows out the lesser documents.  Presumably the same will happen for video.

[coppice]

I want to double down on one of my prior points.  A good textual document is more than enough for almost all of the topics mentioned in this thread.

For repair work the visual aspect of a video is its greatest strength. Most of what I want from those videos is to see how things fit together. For most things its complex. If learning from books was so great, why would people spend a fortune to learn from lectures in colleges? Really smart people learn quickly from book, while less able people gain massively from lectures. However, even the smartest people pick up new things faster with a combination of books and lectures.

[tggzzz]

Such a text is difficult to generate for most people, and the number who can do it well is in my opinion declining in this video focussed era.  Meanwhile the number who can do an adequate or better job of video content creation is increasing.

I don't think the number of people who can do a good job is diminishing. Instead, the number of people that can do a bad job is increasing.

I think the problem is that the low cost of publishing is the root of the problem. That removes the need for editorial decisions.

This partially changes the discussion from suitability to availability.  Trash text content has always existed.  Time winnows out the lesser documents.  Presumably the same will happen for video.

The problem is that the trash text/video is increasing faster than the good content, so the good content is drowned out.

That's exacerbated by the video medium: it takes me 15s to scan text before ignoring it, but 15 minutes with video. 60:1 is a killer.

When it cost money to publish, a suggestion for an "I opened the box and it looked like the advert" article would have caused howls of laughter.

(Oh hell. That reminds me of the later Jerry Pournelle articles in Byte.     Damn; now I need to go and practice some relaxation therapy )

[coppice]

That's exacerbated by the video medium: it takes me 15s to scan text before ignoring it, but 15 minutes with video. 60:1 is a killer.

That's not really an issue of the medium. Its mostly the choice of the author, looking to keep you viewing. Few videos make a clear statement up front about what's to come. while most lengthy text has a contents page up front.

[tggzzz]

I want to double down on one of my prior points.  A good textual document is more than enough for almost all of the topics mentioned in this thread.

For repair work the visual aspect of a video is its greatest strength. Most of what I want from those videos is to see how things fit together. For most things its complex. If learning from books was so great, why would people spend a fortune to learn from lectures in colleges? Really smart people learn quickly from book, while less able people gain massively from lectures. However, even the smartest people pick up new things faster with a combination of books and lectures.

Remember the old Haynes manuals showing how to repair your specific type of car?

Once upon a time they were full of clear drawings showing the essential points of the next step. Then photo reproduction became cheap and easy, so unclear visually confusing photos were used instead.

[tggzzz]

That's exacerbated by the video medium: it takes me 15s to scan text before ignoring it, but 15 minutes with video. 60:1 is a killer.

That's not really an issue of the medium. Its mostly the choice of the author, looking to keep you viewing. Few videos make a clear statement up front about what's to come. while most lengthy text has a contents page up front.

Most articles and videos contain a couple of thousand words. That's not lengthy when speed reading (30s) but is when watching (30mins).

[Ranayna]

I think YouTube is so big it takes time to sort the gold from the dross.

That is what this problem essentially boils down to, not only regarding Youtube, but in general.

You as an individual cannot know everything. There is just too much of everything out there. Everywhere.
If you know, you know. If you do not know, you either sometimes painstakingly search for it yourself, with a dubious chance of success.
Or you ask someone whose opinion you trust and ask them. And even then what they tell you might be not applicable for you.

This is already difficult enough for technical topics. Add softer topics and politics (shudder) into the mix and well.... That is going to hell quickly at the moment.

[coppice]

I want to double down on one of my prior points.  A good textual document is more than enough for almost all of the topics mentioned in this thread.

For repair work the visual aspect of a video is its greatest strength. Most of what I want from those videos is to see how things fit together. For most things its complex. If learning from books was so great, why would people spend a fortune to learn from lectures in colleges? Really smart people learn quickly from book, while less able people gain massively from lectures. However, even the smartest people pick up new things faster with a combination of books and lectures.

Remember the old Haynes manuals showing how to repair your specific type of car?

Once upon a time they were full of clear drawings showing the essential points of the next step. Then photo reproduction became cheap and easy, so unclear visually confusing photos were used instead.

Why are so many of those photos so poorly lit, and poorly focussed? For understanding ideas, graphics are generally the best choice, but for seeing around the details of a specific product, and how awkwardly shaped things fit together, video can be a real boon. A key issue with the proliferation of how to videos for niche things, like specific product repair, is they just wouldn't exist if they were not as quick and easy to produce as a crude YouTube video. So, your choice is a less than ideal format, or nothing.

[coppice]

That's exacerbated by the video medium: it takes me 15s to scan text before ignoring it, but 15 minutes with video. 60:1 is a killer.

That's not really an issue of the medium. Its mostly the choice of the author, looking to keep you viewing. Few videos make a clear statement up front about what's to come. while most lengthy text has a contents page up front.

Most articles and videos contain a couple of thousand words. That's not lengthy when speed reading (30s) but is when watching (30mins).

I think it really comes back to what I said. A 2000 word article probably doesn't have a contents page, but it probably does have some bold section headings that are quick to scan. Effective videos give you a good outline in the first 30s, but that massively cuts total viewing time, and potential revenue. There are perverse incentives at work.

[IanB]

If learning from books was so great, why would people spend a fortune to learn from lectures in colleges?

Well, probably they shouldn't spend a fortune. Especially in the USA, college fees are way too high.

But putting that aside, I think you are paying to know what to learn and to have a structured learning experience, and have the incentive to complete the program, as well as access to tutors and teachers to ask questions. How often have you read a book, and thought "Hey, I don't quite get this, I would like to ask the author a question about it."

[coppice]

But putting that aside, I think you are paying to know what to learn and to have a structured learning experience, and have the incentive to complete the program, as well as access to tutors and teachers to ask questions. How often have you read a book, and thought "Hey, I don't quite get this, I would like to ask the author a question about it."

Sounds like you want a private tutor, not a college course.

[IanB]

Sounds like you want a private tutor, not a college course.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my undergraduate engineering degree was essential. There is no possibility that it could have been replaced with book learning or watching YouTube videos (even if YouTube had existed back then).

[tggzzz]

That's exacerbated by the video medium: it takes me 15s to scan text before ignoring it, but 15 minutes with video. 60:1 is a killer.

That's not really an issue of the medium. Its mostly the choice of the author, looking to keep you viewing. Few videos make a clear statement up front about what's to come. while most lengthy text has a contents page up front.

Most articles and videos contain a couple of thousand words. That's not lengthy when speed reading (30s) but is when watching (30mins).

I think it really comes back to what I said. A 2000 word article probably doesn't have a contents page, but it probably does have some bold section headings that are quick to scan. Effective videos give you a good outline in the first 30s, but that massively cuts total viewing time, and potential revenue. There are perverse incentives at work.

A clear statement would be welcome. I'm sure you are familiar with "Tell them what you are going to say. Say it. Tell them what you have told them"

But that requires the look-at-me-merchants to have planned, in which case they would also avoid ums and ahs, and realise they haven't got anything worth saying.

Summary: not going to happen.

[Nominal Animal]

I would say the answer is one of pattern matching.

Quite likely.  The tomes of formulae tggzzz mentioned and their popularity indicates the same.

As to "intuition", mine is all wonky.  Sometimes it makes these leaps that end up being correct, without any pattern similarity.  Sometimes it jumps off the bridge to the la-la land.  I like my intuition, but I'm pretty suspicious of its correctness, too.

I call the understanding of the properties and behaviour without understanding the internal details "intuitive understanding", mostly for a lack of a better term, and because to me it is similar to being able to catch a thrown ball without being able to describe the trajectory of the ball (except in the crudest of approximations).

[tggzzz]

Sounds like you want a private tutor, not a college course.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my undergraduate engineering degree was essential. There is no possibility that it could have been replaced with book learning or watching YouTube videos (even if YouTube had existed back then).

Precisely.

 "Push this button to floggle the spatchcock and make it yellow" should not form a central part of university education. It should be left to on-the-job training.

[nctnico]

I want to double down on one of my prior points.  A good textual document is more than enough for almost all of the topics mentioned in this thread.

For repair work the visual aspect of a video is its greatest strength. Most of what I want from those videos is to see how things fit together. For most things its complex. If learning from books was so great, why would people spend a fortune to learn from lectures in colleges? Really smart people learn quickly from book, while less able people gain massively from lectures. However, even the smartest people pick up new things faster with a combination of books and lectures.

Remember the old Haynes manuals showing how to repair your specific type of car?

Once upon a time they were full of clear drawings showing the essential points of the next step. Then photo reproduction became cheap and easy, so unclear visually confusing photos were used instead.

I agree. The Haynes manuals have gotten worse. Often I try to find repair videos for the car but I find skipping through the videos in order to find the relevant 5 seconds out of 30 minutes a tedious job to do.

[Nominal Animal]

A clear statement would be welcome. I'm sure you are familiar with "Tell them what you are going to say. Say it. Tell them what you have told them"

But that requires the look-at-me-merchants to have planned, in which case they would also avoid ums and ahs, and realise they haven't got anything worth saying.

Summary: not going to happen.

Considering how quick and easy it is to just record a video on your phone, then upload to Youtube, compared to actually writing the same information, I'd say you have hit on one of the core reasons for the proliferation of bad "how to" videos.

[IanB]

I agree. The Haynes manuals have gotten worse. Often I try to find repair videos for the car but I find skipping through the videos in order to find the relevant 5 seconds out of 30 minutes a tedious job to do.

Where it gets amusing is when the first 30 minutes is spent dismantling and removing practically everything in the engine compartment in order to gain access to the part that needs replacing, with the mechanic calling down all sorts of curses on the engineers who designed it.

[IanB]

Just for fun, here is an example of a short "how to" video with 100% information content, and no fluff:

[joeqsmith]

Youtube "how to" videos are mostly useless

[tggzzz]

Just for fun, here is an example of a short "how to" video with 100% information content, and no fluff:

Oh, good videos do exist, just as nice opera arias punk songs exist. The problem is finding them amongst the deluge of awful stuff.

BTW: that's not a yooootooob vid, it is a TokTuck vid 

[mwb1100]

Just going to throw my 2 cents in:

There is certainly a lot of junk on youtube.  But I have found it to be an amazing resource even more.  When I need to repair something in my home there is often an easily found video explaining and showing exactly how to do it.  And often I'm looking for a repair for a specific appliance or auto part and I can find a video showing how to do the repair not just on a generic dishwasher or car, but my exact model.

Most of the time it's not too difficult to avoid the junk or quickly ignore it since it's usually clear within a few moments that it won't be much use.

On the negative side, there are many tutorials that would be much better in written form than in a video.  But who am I to tell someone how they should offer/present something I'm not paying them for?  I'm not their boss.

It still amazes me how I can go to my computer or phone and ask nearly any question and much more often than not get useful answers immediately. 

It's like I'm living in Star Trek!  Captain Kirk:

Subject: former governor Kodos of Tarsus IV, also known as Kodos the Executioner.  After that, background on actor Anton Karidian.

[tggzzz]

It's like I'm living in Star Trek!  Captain Kirk:

Subject: former governor Kodos of Tarsus IV, also known as Kodos the Executioner.  After that, background on actor Anton Karidian.

That is a decade too late...

Have a look at Arthur C Clarke's "The City and the Stars" (1956), and the earlier variant "Against The Fall of Night"(1948).

Or, if you prefer a version from 1975, "Imperial Earth", which does feature technology like the web - a decade before the internet and two decades before the web.

Clarke was well aware of Vannevar Bush's memex from "As We May Think" (1945).

[coppice]

Have a look at Arthur C Clarke's "The City and the Stars" (1956)

If only we could build those machines that keep everything in pristine condition, matching exactly what the CAD database says things should be like?

[p.larner]

the ones that piss me off are cretins fron the aisian sub continent who are mute and say you can use
table  salt etc to solder aluminium for example,ushuly with cringeworthy names like inventor kr!.

[vk6zgo]

Sounds like you want a private tutor, not a college course.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my undergraduate engineering degree was essential. There is no possibility that it could have been replaced with book learning or watching YouTube videos (even if YouTube had existed back then).

Precisely.

 "Push this button to floggle the spatchcock and make it yellow" should not form a central part of university education. It should be left to on-the-job training.

The "floggling of the spatchcock" should not be the "be all & end all" of "on the job training" either, as the occasion may arise when someone is required to floggle a goose instead, & the lack of basic theory of floggling stops them, whereas a bit more depth in learning for even us non-EE plebs would make us more adaptable.

[Gyro]

the ones that piss me off are cretins fron the aisian sub continent who are mute and say you can use
table  salt etc to solder aluminium for example,ushuly with cringeworthy names like inventor kr!.

At least they have an excuse for their lack of mastery of the English language.

[armandine2]

 I have come to the realization if not always acceptance that there is much less out there than you think there is

the upside of this, is, if making content is your thing you shouldn't worry about not having anything new to present.

[tggzzz]

Sounds like you want a private tutor, not a college course.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my undergraduate engineering degree was essential. There is no possibility that it could have been replaced with book learning or watching YouTube videos (even if YouTube had existed back then).

Precisely.

 "Push this button to floggle the spatchcock and make it yellow" should not form a central part of university education. It should be left to on-the-job training.

The "floggling of the spatchcock" should not be the "be all & end all" of "on the job training" either, as the occasion may arise when someone is required to floggle a goose instead, & the lack of basic theory of floggling stops them, whereas a bit more depth in learning for even us non-EE plebs would make us more adaptable.

Agreed

But is good to have an out-of-harms-way place that the second-rate teachers can inhabit.

[tggzzz]

the ones that piss me off are cretins fron the aisian sub continent who are mute and say you can use
table  salt etc to solder aluminium for example,ushuly with cringeworthy names like inventor kr!.

The ones that piss me off are the ones that are too lazy to employ their native language to communicate.

I suppose that's the written equivalent of the yoootooob "creators" that rudely[1] produce unedited longwinded incoherent "content" full of ums/ahs etc etc.

[1] they consider their time more valuable and important than the audiences' time. That's rude, full stop.

[tggzzz]

the ones that piss me off are cretins fron the aisian sub continent who are mute and say you can use
table  salt etc to solder aluminium for example,ushuly with cringeworthy names like inventor kr!.

At least they have an excuse for their lack of mastery of the English language.

Spot on

That's the 3rd (4th?) post today where he can't be bothered to make it easy for readers.

[tggzzz]

I have come to the realization if not always acceptance that there is much less out there than you think there is

the upside of this, is, if making content is your thing you shouldn't worry about not having anything new to present.

I disagree. That's no better than dropping litter.

I wish the youtube litterers would remember the old adage: "is it better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and be shown to be a fool".

[armandine2]

Disagree away  , you appear to be in a fortunate position, but I'm surprised that you don't have so much new to say. 

[coppice]

I have come to the realization if not always acceptance that there is much less out there than you think there is

the upside of this, is, if making content is your thing you shouldn't worry about not having anything new to present.

I disagree. That's no better than dropping litter.

I wish the youtube litterers would remember the old adage: "is it better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and be shown to be a fool".

So, which is worse? YouTube videos or those pesky kids on your lawn?

[tggzzz]

Disagree away  , you appear to be in a fortunate position, but I'm surprised that you don't have so much new to say. 

I don't know what you mean by that.

If you said something original, I wouldn't have to repeat the points.

[tggzzz]

I have come to the realization if not always acceptance that there is much less out there than you think there is

the upside of this, is, if making content is your thing you shouldn't worry about not having anything new to present.

I disagree. That's no better than dropping litter.

I wish the youtube litterers would remember the old adage: "is it better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and be shown to be a fool".

So, which is worse? YouTube videos or those pesky kids on your lawn?

Yes.

 

[pdenisowski]

yoootooob "creators" that rudely[1] produce unedited longwinded incoherent "content" full of ums/ahs etc etc.

[1] they consider their time more valuable and important than the audiences' time. That's rude, full stop.

This is one reason why I script all of my videos - not a single “uhm” or “ah” in any of them

[Mechatrommer]

rude or not, they have the right to upload any content as long as youtube allows it. just as i have the right to ignore them. youtube is not yours and there is no rule mandating your content must satisfy others. likes count and subscribers however will follow natural evolution law imho. full stop.

[tggzzz]

rude or not, they have the right to upload any content as long as youtube allows it. just as i have the right to ignore them. youtube is not yours and there is no rule mandating your content must satisfy others. likes count and subscribers however will follow natural evolution law imho. full stop.

Strawman arguments.

[Mechatrommer]

rude or not, they have the right to upload any content as long as youtube allows it. just as i have the right to ignore them. youtube is not yours and there is no rule mandating your content must satisfy others. likes count and subscribers however will follow natural evolution law imho. full stop.

Strawman arguments.

read this so you dont fall into the fallacy yourself... https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9288567?hl=en more specifically this.. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6345162 btw you keep imposing archaic speed reading textbook youself. give me writing pdf or book on replacing IC on a samsung galaxy A7 for example... easily said than done. your advice is only valid before the internet.

[Nominal Animal]

your advice is only valid before the internet.

You do know the internet predates Youtube by decades?

rude or not, they have the right to upload any content as long as youtube allows it.

And we have the exact same right to complain about the masses of garbage put out, making it difficult to find the useful videos.  Full stop.

[Mechatrommer]

your advice is only valid before the internet.

You do know the internet predates Youtube by decades?

but videos exist even before the internet. i dont have time entertaining nitpicks, you should know what i meant.

And we have the exact same right to complain about the masses of garbage put out, making it difficult to find the useful videos.  Full stop.

just as we have the same right to differ. about masses of garbage, i agree. about difficult to find usefull one, i guess its PEBCAK... btw i already taught "quick browsing" way the youtube... if anybody want to update to the new way of "speed reading"...

[soldar]

This is one reason why I script all of my videos - not a single “uhm” or “ah” in any of them

A prepared script helps with not having to improvise and think as you go along. It focuses, it keeps the narration in line. Very few people can improvise well. But also good editing can remove the silences, uhms, coughs and other unwanted moments.

One example of good editing is Steve Lehto. You will never see him cough or clear his throat as he removes those things. On the other hand, the guy is long winded and can improvise as long as need be without a script but very few people can do that well. Now that I think about it ... he's a lawyer and I suppose droning off to judge and jury is a necessary skill.

[soldar]

rude or not, they have the right to upload any content as long as youtube allows it. just as i have the right to ignore them. youtube is not yours and there is no rule mandating your content must satisfy others. likes count and subscribers however will follow natural evolution law imho. full stop.

Man, you sound like you are a bit cranky today. Is everything OK? 

Nobody is questioning the "right" of anyone to upload anything. I do not question "the right" of people to be rude, or have bad manners, or not use proper hygiene, or dress inappropriately or use bad grammar or bad punctuation or bad capitalization and spelling. I recognize the right of the people to do those things while, at the same time, I wish they didn't do them. 

And it is my right to express my wish that people be a bit more civilized and a bit less stupid. And I wish there were fewer videos but of better quality. That's all. I am not proposing we outlaw stupidity, bad quality or bad manners.

It is my contention that videos which purport they are going to teach you how to build (say) a piece of furniture and then all you see is some guy working in his workshop, those videos are a waste of time and telling me to skip them is stupid because I have to open them and watch enough of it to realize it is a waste of time.

[pdenisowski]

This is one reason why I script all of my videos - not a single “uhm” or “ah” in any of them

A prepared script helps with not having to improvise and think as you go along. It focuses, it keeps the narration in line. Very few people can improvise well. But also good editing can remove the silences, uhms, coughs and other unwanted moments.

Absolutely.  Even though I taught classes for years and have given hundreds of in-person presentations, I don't ever try to "wing it" when I record videos.

My usual method is to record the whole thing straight through, backing up a sentence or two every time I make a mistake (and I make lots of mistakes).  I then go back and cut out the "bad parts".  No fancy editing skills necessary - just select the parts that I messed up and hit "delete"

[Nominal Animal]

i dont have time entertaining nitpicks, you should know what i meant.

And that is at the root of the entire problem.  Instead of constructing your argument logically, you spew something out, and expect readers/listeners/watchers to know what you meant, instead of read/hear/see what you said.  This is wrong.

about difficult to find usefull one, i guess its PEBCAK

No.  I can read and integrate what I read quite fast, and I habitually watch Youtube at 1.25× or 1.5× speed, depending on how clear the accent is.

When you use the poor search engine Youtube implements nowadays –– it isn't precise at all, and prefers its own algorithms over exact word matches ––, after winnowing the search terms down, you typically get about a dozen results.  If only one of these is useful –– and that is commonly the case, except when the same video has been reuploaded by many people in the hopes of monetizing others' work ––, statistically you end up watching the beginning or spots of at least half of the videos.  This takes dozens of seconds per video.

I can read and understand and integrate the abstract of a peer-reviewed article in less than a minute, and estimate the usefulness of a "how-to" page or blog within seconds; let's say less than ten seconds per page.

"Difficult" here means "it takes more time than it needs to, and is thus wasteful and inefficient".  Because I cannot implement my own Youtube search engine (their TOS forbids such, even if it were technically possible, which it isn't), I cannot affect the search situation at all.  The increased amounts of garbage videos means the density of useful videos to garbage videos is steadily decreasing, and thus finding useful videos will require more and more effort, for a shrinking yield.

You know this is happening to yourself too, because when you look at Youtube search results, you will look at the author and view count of each suggested video, simply because most videos are not worth watching, even though Youtube claims they match your search results.

The solution to this problem is telling humans and authors how to do better.  It is not being "the boss of them", it is the internet-age equivalent of not littering.

[tggzzz]

rude or not, they have the right to upload any content as long as youtube allows it. just as i have the right to ignore them. youtube is not yours and there is no rule mandating your content must satisfy others. likes count and subscribers however will follow natural evolution law imho. full stop.

Strawman arguments.

read this so you dont fall into the fallacy yourself... https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9288567?hl=en more specifically this.. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6345162 btw you keep imposing archaic speed reading textbook youself. give me writing pdf or book on replacing IC on a samsung galaxy A7 for example... easily said than done. your advice is only valid before the internet.

That's even less coherent than normal.

Can you explain what you mean by "your advice is only valid before the internet"?

[Mechatrommer]

Can you explain what you mean by "your advice is only valid before the internet"?

when books and printed materials are the only source of references. granted at the beginning of internet there were only texts exist, but the trend is shifting... until the age of youtube. if you want to limit your choice to printed materials only, then thats your choice, and anybody on your side. we taught kids to take advantages of any type of materials in front of them. but for proper education, yes its still books with established knowledges in it... better for kids to watch sort of education materials in youtube than playing some "claim your chicks" game in the phone. its inevitable. duh why i have to typing all this? maybe because i dont have better things to do than postings in GC

[IanB]

when books and printed materials are the only source of references. granted at the beginning of internet there were only texts exist, but the trend is shifting... until the age of youtube

I think maybe you are missing what life was like in the 1960's, 70's and 80's? There was a "YouTube" back then, but it took a different form, and that form was magazines (not textbooks). Newsagent shelves were full of monthly magazines all all conceivable subjects, with several titles covering electronics. Every child who wanted to learn would be buying these magazines.

The magazines would contain projects, reviews, tutorials, industry news, and adverts for all sorts of things to buy to make stuff.

Granted, magazines have not quite gone away, but it is hard to imagine how rich the scene was in previous decades.

One thing to mention about the difference between magazines and YouTube videos, is that magazines have editors to curate the content and maintain quality standards

[tggzzz]

Can you explain what you mean by "your advice is only valid before the internet"?

when books and printed materials are the only source of references. granted at the beginning of internet there were only texts exist, but the trend is shifting... until the age of youtube. if you want to limit your choice to printed materials only, then thats your choice, and anybody on your side. we taught kids to take advantages of any type of materials in front of them. but for proper education, yes its still books with established knowledges in it... better for kids to watch sort of education materials in youtube than playing some "claim your chicks" game in the phone. its inevitable. duh why i have to typing all this? maybe because i dont have better things to do than postings in GC

OK, that's a little more comprehensible and reasoned.

The only problem with your contention is that most of the "educational" stuff on yoootoob is - to be charitable - of very poor educational value.

You seem to think I don't value videos, despite my explicit statements that I do value some videos. What I - and others - object to is that objectively poor quality stuff is too easily circulated via clickbait tactics, and that makes it very time consuming to find good video.

But hey, if you don't value your time and are content to fritter away your life on yoootoob, then at least is stops you doing anything more harmful.

To mutilate the lyrics from Pink Floyd's "Time"...

  Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
  You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
  Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown yootoob
  Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Hope the emphasis helps your comprehension.

[pdenisowski]

One thing to mention about the difference between magazines and YouTube videos, is that magazines have editors to curate the content and maintain quality standards

As someone who was in grad school when I first heard the word "Internet," that's an interesting and in many ways a very appropriate analogy

But imagine that instead of having a newsstand with 40-50 professionally published and edited magazines, you shared that newsstand with 400-500 self-published "zines" (remember those?), some of which had great information that you couldn't get elsewhere, and some of which were total garbage.  They also aren't well-organized into categories and only a few of them have a cover that lists what's on the inside.

Oh, and they are all free

I spend a good amount of my work day creating content that appears (among other places) on YouTube, so I'm all too aware of the challenges of finding concise, clear, and accurate technical information.  No idea how to solve that problem - sorry

Incidentally, one of the things I love about Germany is how many magazines are still being published compared to the United States.  I'm amazed that even the smallest Buchhandlung sometimes has half a dozen magazines on a single hobby (model trains, chess, horses, etc.)

[IanB]

But imagine that instead of having a newsstand with 40-50 professionally published and edited magazines, you shared that newsstand with 400-500 self-published "zines" (remember those?), some of which had great information that you couldn't get elsewhere, and some of which were total garbage.

Ah yes, the monthly bulletins you would subscribe to, that would come in the mail, typewritten and photocopied, each one containing interesting technical news, "how-to's" and other content of interest. Publications like the "TI calculators owners club".

[soldar]

Absolutely.  Even though I taught classes for years and have given hundreds of in-person presentations, I don't ever try to "wing it" when I record videos.

My usual method is to record the whole thing straight through, backing up a sentence or two every time I make a mistake (and I make lots of mistakes).  I then go back and cut out the "bad parts".  No fancy editing skills necessary - just select the parts that I messed up and hit "delete"

I suppose with a little practice you can edit quite fast. It would take me forever.  Steve Lehto must do the same thing but alsoyou hardly notice the cuts because the video is transitioned over a few frames and he is sitting still facing the camera so it is just a bit of blurring. And you cannot notice anything in the audio stream. I suppose with a bit of practice and the right software you can move forward quickly.

It is not only the content that is important but also the quality of the video and audio.

There is a guy who has a channel in Spanish and he does videos which are just unbelievable. He will record a 20 or 30 or 40 minute video outdoors, by the beach, in the wind, in one single take, with perfect audio and video. He is moving, walking, sitting, turning and delivers a long monologue without a hitch. I assume he had a very good cameraman but I have no idea if he can memorize the entire thing and if he just keeps doing it until he gets the entire thing right. In the technical aspect that channel is just amazing. I suppose professional actors also need to memorize their lines but I find it amazing. The guy can talk about a movie, a book, a character from Greek mythology and you know he is not improvising because the entire speech is just perfect. I guess that is what a true pro can do but I find it amazing when broadcast TV, where they have more means, is much lower quality. This guy is someone doing it for the LOLs and who says he does not want monetary support. Once in a while he will say something like "As you know I do not ask for monetary support; if you like what I do and would like to do something then get on the phone and call your mother or someone you know is lonely and tell them you love them and you care".  I find his videos not only interesting in their subject matter but also impressive in their technical quality. Some things which may seem like defects are actually designed that way and you can see he repeats them in many videos. Every tiny detail is planned and designed that way. A perfect product done just for the pleasure of doing it. A very rare thing these days. As I say, the channel is in Spanish (even though the guy ran away and lives in Cyprus) but if anybody is curious, you can see his videos iXc5PYH04F0 , 7HyaiL5nwlo , gK_Cll61G-c , _mDsPCkNP-A , They are quite representative of some of his work.

[Mechatrommer]

I think maybe you are missing what life was like in the 1960's, 70's and 80's? There was a "YouTube" back then, but it took a different form, and that form was magazines (not textbooks). Newsagent shelves were full of monthly magazines all all conceivable subjects, with several titles covering electronics. Every child who wanted to learn would be buying these magazines.

even though i didnt live in 60 or 70, but i think i got the idea about "YouTube" back then. and i have hundreds of magazines here in form of pdf... and i remember buying magazines sports etc while i was very young. and i have full rack of books of real knowledges just back there. and i still add new collection bought from online stores. i only dig them when i want to revisit some real knowledge esp involving math and theories... half of my lifetime is without computer. but things like how to repair smartphones, how to make "floating" desk etc, i thankfull there is internet/youtube right now.

[Mechatrommer]

just popping up in my channel again (i was looking for this kind of guy yestesrday i couldnt find)... is this OP talking about? if you can spend 50 minutes (i dont) on how to (100 days) build fighter boat check his channel i dont know what he's doing for a living... at least sometime he can give me some idea...

[Nominal Animal]

is this OP talking about?

Can you tell the difference between a "how to" video and a 'here's a thing I made in 100 days' video?  I'm serious, and not trying to be snarky or anything.

We're not talking about work log videos.  I watch Cutting Edge Engineering Australia every Friday, Bad Obsession Motorsport whenever they get off their arses to publish a video, Frank Howarth's and Keith Rucker's work log videos, yes.  Nobody is complaining about those, because those videos are about what they do for fun or profit or both.

We're also not talking about videos that show how to replace the battery on a specific model tablet without breaking it, or how to reach a particularly tricky doodad on some model of cars.  Those are fine, too, because they show a procedure that should not cause any damage while doing it.

We're talking about the crappy videos that are supposed to help others but really do not, because the person does not understand what they're doing.
For example, consider a video where someone is showing how you can tell a battery is almost depleted by simply measuring the cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That is bullshit, because you need to load the battery (with a series resistor) to see what kind of a voltage it has under load to tell how depleted it is.

[soldar]

Can you tell the difference between a "how to" video and a 'here's a thing I made in 100 days' video?  I'm serious, and not trying to be snarky or anything.

We're not talking about work log videos.  I watch Cutting Edge Engineering Australia every Friday, Bad Obsession Motorsport whenever they get off their arses to publish a video, Frank Howarth's and Keith Rucker's work log videos, yes.  Nobody is complaining about those, because those videos are about what they do for fun or profit or both.

We're also not talking about videos that show how to replace the battery on a specific model tablet without breaking it, or how to reach a particularly tricky doodad on some model of cars.  Those are fine, too, because they show a procedure that should not cause any damage while doing it.

We're talking about the crappy videos that are supposed to help others but really do not, because the person does not understand what they're doing.
For example, consider a video where someone is showing how you can tell a battery is almost depleted by simply measuring the cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That is bullshit, because you need to load the battery (with a series resistor) to see what kind of a voltage it has under load to tell how depleted it is.

Exactly!

Before there was the Internet there was Norm Abram and his New Yankee Workshop. In every project he would start out by showing the finished product; what he was going to build. Whether it be a greenhouse, a shaker chair, an amish cupboard, whatever, he would show it, describe it, point out what made it special, things to pay attention to.

HE would then make the parts but explaining very precisely why he was doing it that way, why that joint needed to go that way, why this part needed to be glued before that other part, etc. It was not just him working with the machines and without explanation.

Those programs were very well scripted and were very useful if you ever wanted to build those projects but even if you were just watching you would learn useful techniques.

Watching a guy cutting lumber on the table saw without explanation is a waste of time that gets you nowhere.

[tggzzz]

Can you tell the difference between a "how to" video and a 'here's a thing I made in 100 days' video?  I'm serious, and not trying to be snarky or anything.

We're not talking about work log videos.  I watch Cutting Edge Engineering Australia every Friday, Bad Obsession Motorsport whenever they get off their arses to publish a video, Frank Howarth's and Keith Rucker's work log videos, yes.  Nobody is complaining about those, because those videos are about what they do for fun or profit or both.

We're also not talking about videos that show how to replace the battery on a specific model tablet without breaking it, or how to reach a particularly tricky doodad on some model of cars.  Those are fine, too, because they show a procedure that should not cause any damage while doing it.

We're talking about the crappy videos that are supposed to help others but really do not, because the person does not understand what they're doing.
For example, consider a video where someone is showing how you can tell a battery is almost depleted by simply measuring the cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That is bullshit, because you need to load the battery (with a series resistor) to see what kind of a voltage it has under load to tell how depleted it is.

Exactly!

Before there was the Internet there was Norm Abram and his New Yankee Workshop. In every project he would start out by showing the finished product; what he was going to build. Whether it be a greenhouse, a shaker chair, an amish cupboard, whatever, he would show it, describe it, point out what made it special, things to pay attention to.

HE would then make the parts but explaining very precisely why he was doing it that way, why that joint needed to go that way, why this part needed to be glued before that other part, etc. It was not just him working with the machines and without explanation.

Those programs were very well scripted and were very useful if you ever wanted to build those projects but even if you were just watching you would learn useful techniques.

Watching a guy cutting lumber on the table saw without explanation is a waste of time that gets you nowhere.

Yup, to both of those posts.

The idiocracy of yoootoob videos stops youngsters from realising how good videos can be.

[SiliconWizard]

I still don't get the problem.
How did you do when you didn't have YT videos?

Anyone can make YT videos, and for just any kind of motive. Statistically, what do you think are the odds of a given video meeting your expectations? Practically zero. And that's normal. If you find some channels with great content that meets your expectations, great, enjoy. Otherwise? What point is there to make? It's just a completely "open" platform at zero direct cost (if one has a problem with the indirect costs, frankly the best would be to just go elsewhere), so complaining is exactly like, say, listening to hundreds of people in a meeting on some topic and coming back with "wow, those guys really suck!" Yeah?

[tggzzz]

What point is there to make?

The bad crowding out the good. Not only because of sheer volume, but also because the algorithms push crap.  How so?

Google favours the new over the old; that's also visible in its text search results. Consequence perennially good stuff that doesn't change over years is "deprioritised" in favour of today's clickbait.

It is also in google's financial interest to push stuff that drives advertising revenue, which is typically more idiotic (cats anyone?) or controversial.

[jonovid]

in recent years I have noticed a trend of deliberate dumbing down of how to content on youtube that is made for the so-called modern audiences.
to make it easier for non technical low IQ people to understand.   call it kiddie playschool science if you like.
also there is a trend of more professional full time youtubes posting for instant video gratification or quantity over quality. 

[Buriedcode]

This thread is very reminiscent of an Eti thread.

I don't like x.  I expect x to do this. but x doesn't do this, and people should make x do this for me.

Viewing youtube videos is optional.  And if you are complaining that many - perhaps most - are "useless" to you then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to do about it - or care.

I suppose if your job is repairing things, and the first way you approach that problem is to look for youtube videos, then I can understand frustration if said youtube videos explicitly state they show you how to do said repair but then fail to do so. But I suspect that isn't what you're on about.  Sounds like you assume and expect something from a youtube video from its titel, and it doesn't live up to that.

There are myriad reasons people upload videos - money, likes, a genuine wish to help others, because their friends are doing it.  Also - they are free for you to watch and as such come with no guarantees or quality control (whatever you expect that to be). Not sure you can compare youtube to old books, newsletters or even pre-2000 websites, as all of those had a higher bar because it cost money to publish and present that information, as such, it was more to the point, and generally more reliable.

Maybe take a break from watching youtube for a while and spend your valuable time doing things that dont' make you angry?

[tggzzz]

This thread is very reminiscent of an Eti thread.

I don't like x.  I expect x to do this. but x doesn't do this, and people should make x do this for me.

Viewing youtube videos is optional.  And if you are complaining that many - perhaps most - are "useless" to you then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to do about it - or care.

I suppose if your job is repairing things, and the first way you approach that problem is to look for youtube videos, then I can understand frustration if said youtube videos explicitly state they show you how to do said repair but then fail to do so. But I suspect that isn't what you're on about.  Sounds like you assume and expect something from a youtube video from its titel, and it doesn't live up to that.

You partly answer your own point, when you note the content doesn't live up to the title.

"Never judge a book by the cover" is a good sentiment. With books, you can avoid that by looking at the table of contents and skimming a couple of pages.

You can't do the equivalent with videos since they rarely have a ToC, and the couple of pages take 20 minutes to speak (2000 words, 100wpm).

Maybe take a break from watching youtube for a while and spend your valuable time doing things that dont' make you angry?

That's why I have stopped watching yoootoob videos unless someone I trust has recommended them for a specific reason. Shame, because I miss the 0.001% of good videos.

There are other equivalents, e.g.:

• the net after Eternal September, and Kanter and Siegel (may they rot in hell)
• that lovely holiday destination that is spoiled by becoming so popular that you can't get a good meal there anymore

You get the drift.

[coppercone2]

they just make 0 effort crap because algorithms/ai gets you to watch it and they get beer money for it

its kind of like information pollution. can you do something cheaper and get more money if you pollute? of course
does youtube want more content (like those old video game CD's that came with 5000 games?) yes. its a selling point
do people want money for half assed work ? definitely

those kind of videos later involve someone bragging to their friends along the lines of "can you believe I got a check for this shit"?


the only thing that could help is some kind of detector to warn you that the video is half assed. using youtube now means using the seek bar ALOT to scan the video to see if anything useful occurs.

IMO this happened because cameras are really cheap now. the video makers have a fishing mentality IMO, come back and get fish. but they cause massive information pollution


magazines were higher quality because they had a editor. it kept the fishermen out

[tggzzz]

It is worse than the crap search algorithms

I've just bumbled across the piece below, from the UK "Private Eye" magazine[1]. I wasn't aware of the phenomenon, but it matches some of the points made in this thread.



"Musa Mustafa" does have a yoootoob channel and it looks as obnoxious as the article suggests. I won't link to the yoootoob channel, in order to save people's sanity, however, it ought to be obvious how to permute "ht tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZXI2rbymZ0"

[1]PE has been going since 1961, regularly exposes dodgy practices in local/national government, medicine, law, business, construction, newspapers/broadcasting/publishing .... The editor (since 1986) is the most sued man in British legal history. When PE wins, it often sets usefui precedents.

Several of its memes have spread far beyond the magazine, e.g. "tired and emotional" and "Arkell v. Pressdram(1971)".

PE doesn't have much of an online presence. You have to pay for print, and it is worth it.

[soldar]

The bad crowding out the good. Not only because of sheer volume, but also because the algorithms push crap.  How so?

Google favours the new over the old; that's also visible in its text search results. Consequence perennially good stuff that doesn't change over years is "deprioritised" in favour of today's clickbait.

It is also in google's financial interest to push stuff that drives advertising revenue, which is typically more idiotic (cats anyone?) or controversial.

in recent years I have noticed a trend of deliberate dumbing down of how to content on youtube that is made for the so-called modern audiences.
to make it easier for non technical low IQ people to understand.   call it kiddie playschool science if you like.

also there is a trend of more professional full time youtubes posting for instant video gratification or quantity over quality.

Exactly. There are thousands of suggestions to videos which are crap or even dangerous, videos which ask the viewer to believe and invest in scams or to do very dangerous things like mount saw blades on a right angle axial grinder.

Youtube allows videos which are dangerous, mechanical, electrical, does not matter. But it will promptly censor anything if viewers complain. For example, Shawn Woods has a channel about catching mice and rats but he cannot show the animals being caught by a kill trap. He cannot show a mouse being killed by a snap trap.

I get suggestions to a video called HOW TO GET FREE ELECTRICITY FOREVER - TESLA'S HIDDEN INVENTION and I know it's crap but many people must fall for it because it has 5.7 million views in one year.  And all sorts of free energy scams and other dangerous proposals.

There is just too much crap and it drowns out the good stuff.

[Nominal Animal]

It's just a completely "open" platform at zero direct cost (if one has a problem with the indirect costs, frankly the best would be to just go elsewhere), so complaining is exactly like, say, listening to hundreds of people in a meeting on some topic and coming back with "wow, those guys really suck!" Yeah?

No.  I see people choosing shortcuts and pretend advice instead of thinking things through.  I'm not saying they suck, I'm saying they could do better.  Much better.

If we concentrate on the types of videos I have complained about, then it is more like pointing out fake/oblivious tutors spouting bullshit shortcuts.
Just because it is free like litter in the wind, does not make it okay.

Do I want Youtube to enforce something or some rules here?  No.  All I want is some social pushback to inept tutors and how-to posters posting bullshit advice, and that is exactly what I am doing, on Youtube and elsewhere.

[nctnico]

This thread is very reminiscent of an Eti thread.

I don't like x.  I expect x to do this. but x doesn't do this, and people should make x do this for me.

Viewing youtube videos is optional.  And if you are complaining that many - perhaps most - are "useless" to you then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to do about it - or care.

I disagree. The article tggzzz posted matches my own experience. There is a lot of fake AI generated content on Youtube. For example, I'm looking for a new bench DMM at the moment. When going on Youtube to find reviews, the results are swamped with videos called '5 best bench multimeters'. None of those videos is real as in somebody went through the trouble of actually reviewing 5 multimeters. It is just chat GPT selecting 5 random DMMs and repeating the manufacturer's marketing wank. In the end those videos are just useless noise and Youtube should do something about it.

[5U4GB]

The problem is the time wasted on determining that a specific video is worthless.

That's easy to do by speed reading articles, but there can never be the equivalent for videos.

Yup.  And when you do a Google search for how to fix some problem the first twenty hits are invariably useless Youtube videos where you have to sit through eight minutes of drivel (the optimum length for monetising a video on Youtube) to find out that there's nothing of any use in there and you need to skip to the next eight-minute load of drivel video which will also probably be totally useless for what you need to do.  And then there are also a ton of howto videos like this, Russian Roulette via Table Saw (trigger warning for woodworkers), which demonstrate pretty much everything you can do wrong when using one.

Having said that, there are occasional videos that'll show you how to solve a particular problem, but they're in a channel with six followers in Turkish with no CC available.

[tggzzz]

And then there are also a ton of howto videos like this, Russian Roulette via Table Saw (trigger warning for woodworkers), which demonstrate pretty much everything you can do wrong when using one.

Ah yes, the excuse being "I haven't had any problems therefore it is OK".

That happens too often on this forum, my triggers being floating scopes and using solderless breadboards

[tggzzz]

This thread is very reminiscent of an Eti thread.

I don't like x.  I expect x to do this. but x doesn't do this, and people should make x do this for me.

Viewing youtube videos is optional.  And if you are complaining that many - perhaps most - are "useless" to you then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to do about it - or care.

I disagree. The article tggzzz posted matches my own experience. There is a lot of fake AI generated content on Youtube. For example, I'm looking for a new bench DMM at the moment. When going on Youtube to find reviews, the results are swamped with videos called '5 best bench multimeters'. None of those videos is real as in somebody went through the trouble of actually reviewing 5 multimeters. It is just chat GPT selecting 5 random DMMs and repeating the manufacturer's marketing wank. In the end those videos are just useless noise and Youtube should do something about it.

Such repetition of marketing wank also occurs in non-video material, and is successfully fighting its way to the top of gurgle's results. At least it only takes 10s to ignore it.

Damn SEO; I remember when google.edu determined worth by the number of pages that linked to a a page - an analogue of the "science citation index" concept. Nowadays it is more like the FarceBook concept: whatever is newest and gives gurgle the most advertising revenue.

[coppice]

And when you do a Google search for how to fix some problem the first twenty hits are invariably useless Youtube videos where you have to sit through eight minutes of drivel (the optimum length for monetising a video on Youtube) to find out that there's nothing of any use in there and you need to skip to the next eight-minute load of drivel video which will also probably be totally useless for what you need to do.

That reflects more on Google than on Youtube. That Google search didn't only get you a lot of dodgy Youtube videos. It got you a variety of non-video junk too. 10 years ago a Google search was a pretty effective way to find things. Now its complete garbage. They improved i a bit over the low point maybe 5 years ago, but they seem incapable of undoing the damage they have done.

[pdenisowski]

Having said that, there are occasional videos that'll show you how to solve a particular problem, but they're in a channel with six followers in Turkish with no CC available.

When I was in college, I studied German and Russian in part so that I could read (no Internet yet) technical content that was only available in those languages.

It’s a good thing I actually like learning languages, because otherwise I would feel like a complete idiot after seeing YouTube’s automatic subtitling / translation.  As a former translator, I am very impressed.

[Ian.M]

And then there are also a ton of howto videos like this, Russian Roulette via Table Saw (trigger warning for woodworkers), which demonstrate pretty much everything you can do wrong when using one.

Ah yes, the excuse being "I haven't had any problems therefore it is OK".

That happens too often on this forum, my triggers being floating scopes and using solderless breadboards

I'm with you on floating scopes, but its fairly difficult to kill yourself with a solderless breadboard . . .

[tggzzz]

And then there are also a ton of howto videos like this, Russian Roulette via Table Saw (trigger warning for woodworkers), which demonstrate pretty much everything you can do wrong when using one.

Ah yes, the excuse being "I haven't had any problems therefore it is OK".

That happens too often on this forum, my triggers being floating scopes and using solderless breadboards

I'm with you on floating scopes, but its fairly difficult to kill yourself with a solderless breadboard . . .

I've an example where using one might cause an innocent bystander to want to kill you

[soldar]

That reflects more on Google than on Youtube. That Google search didn't only get you a lot of dodgy Youtube videos. It got you a variety of non-video junk too. 10 years ago a Google search was a pretty effective way to find things. Now its complete garbage. They improved i a bit over the low point maybe 5 years ago, but they seem incapable of undoing the damage they have done.

Youtube IS Google. In October 2006, YouTube was bought by Google for $1.65 billion. They are one and the same.

Google's search logarithm has evolved over time and gotten better in some ways, sort of like using AI to guess what might be what you are looking for, so it might work if you have a very vague idea, but it has gotten worse if you are looking for something more precise and you get suggestions for things that are only very distantly related.

But the worst search logarithm of all time has to be Amazon. You can search for something with very precise words and get all results which do not include those words and are not even related. I have no idea what reasoning is behind this. But that is another rant for another day.

EBay's search engine is not bad in general terms.

[soldar]

I'm with you on floating scopes, but its fairly difficult to kill yourself with a solderless breadboard . . .

Idea for YouTube video: how to cure upset stomach by swallowing a solderless breadboard. The secret they do not want you to know!

[coppice]

That reflects more on Google than on Youtube. That Google search didn't only get you a lot of dodgy Youtube videos. It got you a variety of non-video junk too. 10 years ago a Google search was a pretty effective way to find things. Now its complete garbage. They improved i a bit over the low point maybe 5 years ago, but they seem incapable of undoing the damage they have done.

Youtube IS Google. In October 2006, YouTube was bought by Google for $1.65 billion. They are one and the same.

WOW. That's amazing. I had absolutely no idea. I thought it was November 2006.

These two businesses may both be part of the same Alphabet soup, but they function very differently when you search.

Google's search logarithm has evolved over time and gotten better in some ways, sort of like using AI to guess what might be what you are looking for, so it might work if you have a very vague idea, but it has gotten worse if you are looking for something more precise and you get suggestions for things that are only very distantly related.

I don't know what Google looks like when you use it. It presents itself very differently to different people who are logged in. They've been doing politically motivated searches for quite a long time. The Arab spring highlighted this, with some truly bizarre search results. Something like 5 years ago it descended from there to utter garbage, in ways that were clearly as politically motivated as their recent Gemini screw up. They seem to have been struggling to retreat from that ever since. Not all that successfully. Whether I look for something very specific, or search with a vague idea of what I am looking for, its still very bad.

[Buriedcode]

This thread is very reminiscent of an Eti thread.

I don't like x.  I expect x to do this. but x doesn't do this, and people should make x do this for me.

Viewing youtube videos is optional.  And if you are complaining that many - perhaps most - are "useless" to you then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to do about it - or care.

I disagree. The article tggzzz posted matches my own experience. There is a lot of fake AI generated content on Youtube. For example, I'm looking for a new bench DMM at the moment. When going on Youtube to find reviews, the results are swamped with videos called '5 best bench multimeters'. None of those videos is real as in somebody went through the trouble of actually reviewing 5 multimeters. It is just chat GPT selecting 5 random DMMs and repeating the manufacturer's marketing wank. In the end those videos are just useless noise and Youtube should do something about it.

So you found out that youtube reviews aren't particularly reliable.  Surely its been that way for the past 5 years?  My point was, youtube has never really been a reliable source of "good" information, and I'm surprised people are only now coming to realise this.  Just like everything on the internet, since the bar for posting content/opinions/views/reviews is so low, its diluted so the price we pay for the convenience of having access to vast amounts of free information is that one has to sift through a lot of crap.  Nothing wrong with watching youtube videos, but it seems the OP was complaining that they spent lots of their time wathcing them - then complaining that they weren't what he wanted.  Surely the simple answer is.. don't watch them?

[soldar]

it seems the OP was complaining that they spent lots of their time wathcing them - then  complaining that they weren't what he wanted.  Surely the simple answer is.. don't watch them?

How you get that interpretation is beyond me. You might want to try reading the OP again. Others seem to have no problem understanding what I mean to say.

[IanB]

So you found out that youtube reviews aren't particularly reliable.  Surely its been that way for the past 5 years?  My point was, youtube has never really been a reliable source of "good" information, and I'm surprised people are only now coming to realise this.

I think this is not true, but the good information may need some searching.

You can tell if a review is worthwhile by watching it, but this takes some discernment. It is not that hard to see if someone properly understands the product and is evaluating it critically, and is not just describing it.

[tggzzz]

So you found out that youtube reviews aren't particularly reliable.  Surely its been that way for the past 5 years?  My point was, youtube has never really been a reliable source of "good" information, and I'm surprised people are only now coming to realise this.

I think this is not true, but the good information may need some searching.

You can tell if a review is worthwhile by watching it, but this takes some discernment. It is not that hard to see if someone properly understands the product and is evaluating it critically, and is not just describing it.

I have sufficient discernment to evaluate 10 sources.

I don't have time to evaluate 10 videos, but text takes much less time to evaluate.

Hence I don't watch random videos, only those recommended by other people with sufficient discernment.

[CatalinaWOW]

So you found out that youtube reviews aren't particularly reliable.  Surely its been that way for the past 5 years?  My point was, youtube has never really been a reliable source of "good" information, and I'm surprised people are only now coming to realise this.

I think this is not true, but the good information may need some searching.

You can tell if a review is worthwhile by watching it, but this takes some discernment. It is not that hard to see if someone properly understands the product and is evaluating it critically, and is not just describing it.

In the days before internet when you considered doing or purchasing something you either looked in a printed resource or went to a local expert.  The printed resources were (depending on your location) hard to access in both time and money, but quick to evaluate.  For this reason meta evaluations were common.  That is you developed trusted sources and didn't often chase other sources. 

Local experts basically were either people who sold the service or product your were interested in, or someone who owned or had done what you were investigating.  When buying a product these sources sometimes gave you nothing worthwhile.  The most common and slightly better situation was to be able to see all that came in the packaging, and maybe to handle and operate the product.  Less frequently, but not uncommon you could find people who owned or used the product and could tell you if they were happy, perhaps throwing in a couple specific raves or gripes.  And rarely you got someone truly expert with the product who could succinctly identify all the strengths and weaknesses of the product and offer comparisons with other similar products, perhaps including a recommendation based on expected usage.

YouTube (and the internet in general) provides analogues for all of these situations.   The descriptive YouTube unboxing video is very much like seeing the floor display at a store staffed by clerks who know nothing about the product (except perhaps which one is being flogged by the sales manager).  The strategies for dealing with the problems are also very similar.  You don't return to retail stores that aren't helpful, and the same for YouTube channels. 

For those of us not living in a megalopolis with free access to a major university library and a huge variety of retail outlets the advantages of the internet versions easily outweigh the disadvantages which are mostly low entry barriers resulting in lots of low quality content and the data which is the most ephemeral in human history.  Those with better access to the traditional sources may easily find the opposite to be true.  Unfortunately the loss of the hinterlands market has drastically hurt the viability of the traditional resources so they are going away for everyone.

[IanB]

I have sufficient discernment to evaluate 10 sources.

I don't have time to evaluate 10 videos, but text takes much less time to evaluate.

Hence I don't watch random videos, only those recommended by other people with sufficient discernment.

I can appreciate that, though I have developed a tendency to jump through a video to the middle or the end to start making an evaluation. I can quickly reject videos if I don't see any meat several minutes in.

By the way, an amusing case of honest and critical reviews is Matthias Wandel reviewing a Vevor metal lathe. He said it had poor tolerances, mechanical problems, poor finish and inaccurate documentation. He asked Vevor if they were going to be upset with his review? They said, "No, not at all, keep being honest. We are selling at a price point, and all of the imperfections you report are to be expected at this price. We are not pretending anything different."

[tggzzz]

I have sufficient discernment to evaluate 10 sources.

I don't have time to evaluate 10 videos, but text takes much less time to evaluate.

Hence I don't watch random videos, only those recommended by other people with sufficient discernment.

I can appreciate that, though I have developed a tendency to jump through a video to the middle or the end to start making an evaluation. I can quickly reject videos if I don't see any meat several minutes in.

Strangely I can't. Well I can quickly jump to a random spot, but then it takes too much time to figure out the current context and listen to several sentences. Maybe 1 minute each time I skip. That's doubly true where you skip to a visual of a datasheet or slide, with a talking head explaining the relevant bits of the data sheet or slide. Better to just read the damn data sheet!

Even in a good video I would need to do that several times to find the nuggets that make the rest of the video worthwhile.

There's a lot to be said for formal scientific papers, which have an explicit abstract at the front, and conclusions at the end. You only have to read the middle if they contain something interestinfg or surprising.

[jonovid]

I find interesting is the unauthorized use of electronic components video posts.
for example 555 timer as a AM radio  it works  TubeTimeUS

[coppercone2]

that just means someone knows analog

[armandine2]

just watched (usefully) w2aew on panel meters / d'Arsonval  - however I didn't use his test method or get the round numbers he did? 

[soldar]

just watched (usefully) w2aew on panel meters / d'Arsonval  - however I didn't use his test method or get the round numbers he did? 

That is a well done video. I would have added a couple things and possibly made it unnecessarily more complicated for beginners.

I have a crate full of old instruments of that type... which will probably never see use again.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/show-your-multimeter!/msg5401139/#msg5401139