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Youtube/Google is evil, time to fight back
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Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: tooki on May 03, 2022, 09:57:24 am ---The correct thing to do is to act on predatory behavior, rather than impose draconian rules
--- End quote ---
I fully agree.  And to do that, we need to examine humans as individuals, not as representatives of any groups; and instead of setting arbitrary rules about specific words getting people in trouble, we need to look at what they are saying.

I believe Fran's intentions were and are positive.  It's just that like with the stories scaring kids away from water, the easy and immediately effective way (pointing out "bad word" as the actionable thing) can in the long term cause more harm than good.

The fact that that kind of details pop up on Google shows that that kind of misunderstanding is common.  I claim we cannot fix those misunderstandings by forcing any kind of language; I claim only truly free and honest speech can do that.  Humans are just drawn to the easy short-term solutions, because the long term ones require more effort from themselves; it is so much easier to just demand that everyone else do the work instead.
Zero999:

--- Quote from: tooki on May 03, 2022, 09:57:24 am ---I'm triggered.

--- End quote ---
You seem to have forgotten the reason why women are given separate spaces from men: to make them feel more comfortable and protect them against predators. Yes it's true, it doesn't stop predators, but it helps. The hospital simply noting the person's genitalia and putting him on a male ward, irrespective of how he identifies, would have solved the problem. If he'd had gender reassignment surgery, then no problem, put him on a female ward.

The problem is throwing women under the bus, in order to protect the tiny proportion of transwomen. Men simply declaring they're women, in order to gain access to women's spaces is increasingly becoming a problem. What's to stop any pervert wearing a dress and going into a women's changing room? When I used to go to nightclubs, the security would eject anyone who did such a thing. Nowadays it they'd sue for discrimination.

There are numerous videos of misogynistic "transwomen" on Tiktok calling women all sorts of nasty words, because they've been called out for going into women's spaces.  I don't mind men dressing as women, wanting to be referred to as she and her. If they want to have surgery, to remove they're genitalia, that's fine too, but if a chick with a dick, were to go into a changing room when my mum, a girlfriend, or sister, were in there, whilst I was waiting outside. I'd go in there, drag him out by the balls. Fuck the consequences. Women should be protected from that, fuck the rights of men who act like that!

I used to think puberty blockers were a good idea, but have completely reversed my view. There isn't sufficient medical evidence to support them and their long term effects are unknown. There's an increasing number of detransitioners who have been sold into the transitioning by bad actors on social media. There isn't enough protection against this. A women is currently suing the National Health Service, for wrongly giving her surgery and medication, when counseling would have probably convinced her she's a women and no trans. A big problem is they're accused of transphobia for telling their stories.

I'm fine with children being made aware of gender dysphoria, in an age appropriate manner, but there are too many cases of teachers indoctrinating young children in radical gender theory. A big problem is children are encouraged to question their sex, because they don't fit stereotypical male or female traits. My sister was a tomboy, when she was younger and now many girls who are like that are led to believe they're nonbinary, or worse trans. I was never into football and developed a love for flowers, at one point, which some might no see as an indication of being trans, yet no, I'm a straight man.

Many of your views mirror mine, a couple of years ago. I suggest you do some real research and get back to me.


--- Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2022, 08:46:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 03, 2022, 08:26:20 am ---That's fine, but then what about male sex offender who claims he's trans, dresses as a women and sexually assaults women in female toilets? If the law is applied equally, then he would be sent to a female prison, where he can have a rape fest.

--- End quote ---
Already happened in UK. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10406351/I-sexually-assaulted-transgender-rapist-womens-jail.html

--- End quote ---
That doesn't surprise me. A similar incident occurred in hospital, which I referred to in another post. It's easy to find the article, so I won't post a link.
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 03, 2022, 10:35:37 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on May 03, 2022, 09:57:24 am ---The correct thing to do is to act on predatory behavior, rather than impose draconian rules
--- End quote ---
I fully agree.  And to do that, we need to examine humans as individuals, not as representatives of any groups; and instead of setting arbitrary rules about specific words getting people in trouble, we need to look at what they are saying.

I believe Fran's intentions were and are positive.  It's just that like with the stories scaring kids away from water, the easy and immediately effective way (pointing out "bad word" as the actionable thing) can in the long term cause more harm than good.

The fact that that kind of details pop up on Google shows that that kind of misunderstanding is common.  I claim we cannot fix those misunderstandings by forcing any kind of language; I claim only truly free and honest speech can do that.  Humans are just drawn to the easy short-term solutions, because the long term ones require more effort from themselves; it is so much easier to just demand that everyone else do the work instead.

--- End quote ---
That is the only way to deal with this. It would also help to deal with the problem I mentioned above, of predatory men in womenface.
rsjsouza:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 03, 2022, 01:22:47 am ---Some of them are pretty loud activists indeed, but that's a very, very small minority. Those people alone wouldn't have the power to be coercitive in any way. So, while they are certainly involved, that's not were the power and interests behind it lie.

--- End quote ---
The small fringe minority was able to grow in numbers to a significant point through the megaphone of the internet - it really snowballed.

IIRC, this cultural change started to take shape publicly through gamergate, where the tactics of shaming others based on the use of their words was tested in a broader arena and, since it was present in a large community (gamers) and with a young generation (more open to new ideas), it was able to grow roots in this part of the society. Companies catering to the younger generation started to pay attention and started to self-censor themselves, while this was mostly ignored by the rest of the industry and media (despite still being active in Twitter). However, once the scholars with the proper background in Critical Theory were able to connect the shaming tactics with their "proper" theoretical foundation, the media companies started to pay attention (by inviting them to speak at their bobblehead segments) and, being in an audience crisis themselves, did not want to lose the chance to cater to the young audiences. Once it hits *that* powerful megaphone, no containment is possible.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

(I might have forgotten a detail or two, but all this happened in the past eight or nine years only).
coppice:

--- Quote from: rsjsouza on May 03, 2022, 10:57:20 am ---The small fringe minority was able to grow in numbers to a significant point through the megaphone of the internet - it really snowballed.

--- End quote ---
Loud people don't get gather support. They cower the meek into submission. We seem to live in times where things have been so easy for so many that most people are meek enough to submit.
cdev:
See "The Problem of Social Cost" by Coase,
https://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/file/coase-problem.pdf

Thats the underlying explanation for a great many things..Its a very big and important change in things . Profit is much more important now. It was always important but now everything reevolves around it, legally.

There used to be moral scruples that sometimes contradicted the corporate logic. Many people dont know there has been this sea change.. and a lot of effort seems to go into hiding this change. Why? A few people have said words to me about this change and the hiding of the Trilemma as some call it.

Dani Rodrik (Articulate Harvard economist) is credited for it but it was around, as it was well known to economists and others in the 1990s long before his paper..
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