General > General Technical Chat

Youtube/Google is evil, time to fight back

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ve7xen:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 04, 2022, 05:13:24 am ---Journalists are not supposed to be the guardians of truth!  They are not the watchdogs of the population, they are the watchdogs of the powers that be!
--- End quote ---

YouTube et al are not journalists, nor are (most of) their users. That is the problem. If they were, they would vet their sources, do proper research, and censor unreliable information before publishing it...

They are platforms that host user generated content, and an entirely different thing. It is well within their rights and perfectly reasonable for them to censor the content they choose to host. I do think they have some ethical responsibility to at least make a good-faith effort to stem the spread of scams, misinformation, and hate on their platforms, but ultimately it is up to them. There is certainly no reason Google or anyone else should be obligated to host or publish any content on behalf of their users, especially if they believe it is harmful/misleading, which is in effect what you are saying.


--- Quote ---God dammit I utterly, utterly despise the idea of information providers limiting access to information based on what they believe to be true or factual.  It is not their right, nor their responsibility.
--- End quote ---

So you despise journalists with integrity? I'm so confused by your position here Journalists *are* 'the guardians of truth', doing that research, determining, in good faith, what is fact, and publishing the result of their efforts so we don't all have to retread the same path is exactly their job and purpose, yet somehow you use this as an argument against censoring lies and misinformation :wtf:. That is what journalism is all about, and while social media / Internet hosting companies are not journalists, they are realizing that they should exercise at least some of the discretion that actual journalists do in what they publish and propagate.


--- Quote ---But handing anyone the right to deem information as "not for the population to see or discuss" because is is not "true" is unbelievably fascist, authoritarian idea, that I will fight against.  The hate speech laws here in EU are utterly ridiculous already, what with a Finnish former minister and current member of parliament being dragged through the courts for quoting the Bible.  (I'm not actually Christian myself.)

--- End quote ---

That is not even close to what is happening. The platforms have the right to choose what to host for any reason they want. Is it ethical for them to censor content that they believe to be misleading or harmful? I believe it is, on the same grounds as it is ethical and even essential for journalists to do so.

And the Bible is full of hate speech, that's really not a defence, though I know nothing of this case.

wraper:

--- Quote from: ve7xen on May 04, 2022, 05:41:49 am ---YouTube et al are not journalists, nor are (most of) their users. That is the problem. If they were, they would vet their sources, do proper research, and censor unreliable information before publishing it...

--- End quote ---
According this statement largest news outlets have almost no journalists either since they publish loads of unverified garbage or outright lies.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: ve7xen on May 04, 2022, 05:41:49 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 04, 2022, 05:13:24 am ---God dammit I utterly, utterly despise the idea of information providers limiting access to information based on what they believe to be true or factual.  It is not their right, nor their responsibility.
--- End quote ---

So you despise journalists with integrity? I'm so confused by your position here Journalists *are* 'the guardians of truth', doing that research, determining, in good faith, what is fact, and publishing the result of their efforts so we don't all have to retread the same path is exactly their job and purpose, yet somehow you use this as an argument against censoring lies and misinformation :wtf:. That is what journalism is all about, and while social media / Internet hosting companies are not journalists, they are realizing that they should exercise at least some of the discretion that actual journalists do in what they publish and propagate.

--- End quote ---
You conflate two completely separate things:
1) What a person in a news organization chooses to write about
2) What an organization forbids discussion about

Don't you see the difference?

Again, the Hunter Biden laptop case is a perfect example.  Hard evidence existed, it was just labeled as "Trump campaign product" and "Russian misinformation", and therefore not to be discussed in media.

No matter of personal :wtf: changes the fact that no media organization is to be trusted to define what is true and what is not, no matter what their political leanings are.

The best journalists will post their findings, separate from their personal opinions –– or at least clearly stating what is their opinion and what is what they found out.  Today, "journalists" try very hard to mix and conflate the two, and deliberately mischaracterise their political leanings exactly because they do not see themselves as servants of the public, but as the gatekeepers and shepherds of the public, determining what information the public should not be exposed to.  This is sick.

Without free information, all you have is manipulation.  Better face it, or accept being manipulated.

Nominal Animal:
A key part of the manipulation of "truth" is to choose your sources selectively.  Because there are tens of sources that are generally categorized as "factual" by independent organizations, and they tend to have differing opinions on what is true and what is not, all you need to do is choose your sources.

In Finland –– again, ostensibly the country with the most free newsmedia in the world, according to international observers –– the "journalists" openly admit they don't need to consider sources they don't like.  The head of one of the largest newsrooms even admitted in a tweet that they are not hired to do journalism, but to push their own opinions and views instead.

(That Hunter Biden laptop is a particularly sore point for me, because when I mentioned it in some face-to-face discussion here in Finland, I was labeled a "conspiracy theorist".  Our beloved Finnish newsmedia still hasn't reported on it, probably because they find the topic "distasteful".  That's the level of "world's free-est journos" for you.)

Perhaps things are different where you (whoever you might be, the person reading this post), but I do not think so: the world is surprisingly small in these things.

Zero999:

--- Quote from: nctnico on May 03, 2022, 10:24:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 03, 2022, 10:45:19 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on May 03, 2022, 09:57:24 am ---I'm triggered.

--- End quote ---
You seem to have forgotten the reason why women are given separate spaces from men: to make them feel more comfortable and protect them against predators. Yes it's true, it doesn't stop predators, but it helps. The hospital simply noting the person's genitalia and putting him on a male ward, irrespective of how he identifies, would have solved the problem. If he'd had gender reassignment surgery, then no problem, put him on a female ward.

--- End quote ---
I don't see how the latter would make anything different. In the end gender and sexual orientation are just superficial. There will always be people that harrass other people and gender has nothing to do with that. IOW: you are seeing a cause and effect relation that doesn't exist / are jumping to the wrong conclusions.
--- End quote ---
Sex/gender is not superficial. Men are stronger than women and women are more likely to be harmed by them, than the other way round. It is also why there are separate categories in most sports for men and women.

Men are really identifying as female to be allowed into women's prisons, hospitals, changing rooms etc. This isn't the only case of a woman being raped by a man, claiming to be a women. I dare say there are a greater number of men who are prepared to lie to get access to vulnerable women, than there are genuine transgender women, especially criminals destined for prison. It is a problem.

How would you feel if this happened to your wife/girlfriend/mother/sister?

And don't conflate transgenderism with sexual orientation. They are not the same thing. Being attracted to the same sex, doesn't involve any delusion, body dysmorphia, or require any physical treatments i.e. surgery and hormones. Transgenderism is believing ones body doesn't match their brain. It is similar to someone with anorexia nervosa believing they're fat, when they've vert thin. Of course, people with this condition need to be allowed to live their lives in piece, without harassment and not be denied employment.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 03, 2022, 06:03:14 pm ---Their activism is getting artifically amplified by policies of social networks and media, and that's what makes the whole thing look more and more "normal" to the whole population. But I'm sorry, I do not think in the least that those networks and media do it BECAUSE that's what the population wants to hear. They do it because they have their own agenda, and THEN it progressively gets inside people's minds.

--- End quote ---
That is what I call a 'Trumpism'. Usefull information gets lost in the noise and reliable sources are being discredited. It seems to work well on you.

Fortunately social media and regular media start to see that they have a responsibility for removing false information or at least tagging information as not being verified / necessarily true.

--- End quote ---
People who work for social media companies lack the knowledge, skills and experience, to separate misinformation from the truth. A classic example was Facebook's censorship of the British Medical Journal for publishing something they didn't believe/like.
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o95

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