General > General Technical Chat
Youtube/Google is evil, time to fight back
Zero999:
--- Quote from: eugene on May 04, 2022, 08:31:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 07:52:18 pm ---I think most people are clever enough to know if it's from RT, it's Russian propaganda, just as most people know the BBC push western propaganda.
--- End quote ---
I really wish that were true. Unfortunately, the current condition in the US (at least the US, probably elsewhere too) is a deep divide between two groups that simply cannot comprehend the what the other is seeing. I know that I'm guilty myself. My own political views seem so obviously true that I'm sure every sane intelligent person agrees with me. Those that don't must be either stupid or deliberately crooked, right?
Given two presidents, A and B, very close to half of the population believes that A is truthfull with only good intentions while B is a filthy and corrupt. Meanwhile, the other half believe that A lies about everything for purely personal gain but B wears a white hat with the best of intentions for the country. It would seem that we can't count on the individual to see the truth without a lot of help.
It's a dumbfounding situation, but I can't think of any way to make it work other than to allow everyone to speak their piece, then provide close analysis and scrutiny of what was said by multiple 'experts'. Of course in practice, this hardly works because people listen to the experts that support whatever they already believe... Maybe more experts to fact check the first experts? Well, yeah, that's what free speech is supposed to be, but it doesn't seem to be freeing us from the circle that goes nowhere.
--- End quote ---
Whilst you''re right of course. What you said wasn't applicable to the part of my post you quoted. I repeat: any idiot can see the British Broadcasting Cooperation, pushes a British i.e. western perspective on things, whilst Russia Today, does exactly the opposite.
Regarding the US presidents: Some people in the UK hate Trump because our mainstream media do, for others it's some of the bollocks he spoke on social media, but a good number of people here love him for being pro-Brexit and anti-immigration. A lot of people here like Biden because he's calm, compared to Trump and the BBC love him, whilst other hate him because they deem him to be incompetent and ineffectual.
--- Quote from: MK14 on May 04, 2022, 08:50:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on May 04, 2022, 12:14:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: MK14 on May 04, 2022, 12:10:05 pm ---So, it is not TOTALLY UNREASONABLE, for the people, Nominal Animal was talking to, to call them a "conspiracy theorist". Or if it was (unreasonable), it was not unreasonable for them to dispute the truthfulness of that story circulating at the time.
--- End quote ---
It is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE to call someone a conspiracy theorist, based on them not agreeing with the mainstream media. The mainstream media is the main source of conspiracy theories these days.
--- End quote ---
Media can get VERY complicated these days. Several decades ago, things were much simpler. No internet, a range of newspapers, and only a handful of TV channels. These days, with the explosion of the internet, with a mindbogglingly huge range of websites, hundreds or even thousands of TV channels to choose from, mobile phone communications, etc.
In addition to all of the above, we can get almost live pictures, from peoples mobile phones. Showing actual (almost) live events happen in front of them, posted onto social media, and other internet places. E.g. At the start of the Russian/Ukrainian war, mobile phone footage of Russian missiles, heading towards and blowing up parts of a Ukrainian airport, were widely circulated.
So in modern times. It is somewhat or more, different, to e.g. World War 2. Which was limited to some film footage (usually Black and White), Radio (very little or no TV) and newspapers.
With youtube, just about anyone, with a mobile phone, and internet connection. Can rapidly post videos, of almost anything. Including significantly political/war/current news events. Which has a tendency to move the news media/TV out of the hands of government control. With some exceptions, like the Great Internet Firewall of China.
EDIT: typos.
--- End quote ---
I think it's more difficult to manipulate everyone into thinking the same nowadays. There are good number of sources of information, on the Internet. which contradict the narrative put out by the BBC. During WW2 newspapers as well as the BBC pumped out nothing but anti-German propaganda. Nowadays it's possible to access alternative viewpoints on the Russian-Ukraine war.
eugene:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 09:28:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: eugene on May 04, 2022, 08:31:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 07:52:18 pm ---I think most people are clever enough to know if it's from RT, it's Russian propaganda, just as most people know the BBC push western propaganda.
--- End quote ---
I really wish that were true. [...]
--- End quote ---
Whilst you''re right of course. What you said wasn't applicable to the part of my post you quoted.
--- End quote ---
Point taken.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 04, 2022, 08:59:15 pm ---And yet, despite this somewhat unreasonable number of sources of information we have now, what I find amazing is that it's every bit as easy to manipulate the public opinion these days than it ever was, if not easier. =)
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I don't think it ever was difficult. It is just that more parties are screaming for attention nowadays. Organised religion has been the defacto standard to control the massed for eons until book printing was invented.
coppice:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 09:28:09 pm ---I think it's more difficult to manipulate everyone into thinking the same nowadays. There are good number of sources of information, on the Internet. which contradict the narrative put out by the BBC. During WW2 newspapers as well as the BBC pumped out nothing but anti-German propaganda. Nowadays it's possible to access alternative viewpoints on the Russian-Ukraine war.
--- End quote ---
War is a special case, where honesty is defenestrated by all. However, until the late 80s the media largely distorted, rather than lied, because there was an assumption that there would be backlash to outright lies. Then they found that when they did tell unambiguous lies they could usually get away with a minor retraction at the bottom of page 27, or on the 3AM news update. That's when the news media really began to steep itself in fiction.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on May 04, 2022, 09:50:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 09:28:09 pm ---Whilst you''re right of course. What you said wasn't applicable to the part of my post you quoted. I repeat: any idiot can see the British Broadcasting Cooperation, pushes a British i.e. western perspective on things, whilst Russia Today, does exactly the opposite.
Regarding the US presidents: Some people in the UK hate Trump because our mainstream media do, for others it's some of the bollocks he spoke on social media, but a good number of people here love him for being pro-Brexit and anti-immigration. A lot of people here like Biden because he's calm, compared to Trump and the BBC love him, whilst other hate him because they deem him to be incompetent and ineffectual.
--- End quote ---
What I see is that we've been polarized beyond any recognition. The two political parties, or left and right in general have less and less common ground in the past 8-10 years, and I see this worldwide.
You either a leftist, who is going to force woke nonsense in every television program, and going to censor free speech (which BTW happened to every socialist country without exception) and take the rights of individuals.
Or you are right wing, who is a practically a nazi, and doesn't believe in vaccines and rides a Ford F150 to the gun store.
There is nothing in between for reasonable people. Both sides find the other completely despicable. What we have now was used to be called far left and far right.
Honestly, this entire western political system could use a bit of a reset, with more parties. How about having parties (that actually get votes) that don't have an opinion and policy on everything? But that's not going to happen, because of the polarization, if the other party wins, is just literally going to trash your life with it's policies.
--- End quote ---
That was true during the run up to Brexit, but it doesn't seem to be the case i the UK now. We have the Labour party, who openly promote immigration and the Conservative party who claim to be tough on immigration, yet in reality are just as keen. Both parties have similar policies on the National Health Service and they both supported the anti-COVID measures. Labour are very woke. The Conservatives are less so.
I wouldn't vote for either main parties. I side with the right on some aspects: anti-woke/immigration, yet the left on others: invest more in educating the poor, diverting council tax from richer to poorer areas, although I don't support any tax increases over all, just collect it more effectively and spend more efficiently.
--- Quote from: coppice on May 04, 2022, 09:51:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 09:28:09 pm ---I think it's more difficult to manipulate everyone into thinking the same nowadays. There are good number of sources of information, on the Internet. which contradict the narrative put out by the BBC. During WW2 newspapers as well as the BBC pumped out nothing but anti-German propaganda. Nowadays it's possible to access alternative viewpoints on the Russian-Ukraine war.
--- End quote ---
War is a special case, where honesty is defenestrated by all. However, until the late 80s the media largely distorted, rather than lied, because there was an assumption that there would be backlash to outright lies. Then they found that when they did tell unambiguous lies they could usually get away with a minor retraction at the bottom of page 27, or on the 3AM news update. That's when the news media really began to steep itself in fiction.
--- End quote ---
That's true to a degree. Back then newspapers were more of a thing and had some influence. They ere also good at counteracting the BBC to some extent. Now the Internet serves that purpose, with a far greater diversity of views present.
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