General > General Technical Chat

Youtube/Google is evil, time to fight back

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MK14:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 09:28:09 pm ---I think it's more difficult to manipulate everyone into thinking the same nowadays. There are good number of sources of information, on the Internet. which contradict the narrative put out by the BBC. During WW2 newspapers as well as the BBC pumped out nothing but anti-German propaganda. Nowadays it's possible to access alternative viewpoints on the Russian-Ukraine war.

--- End quote ---

In the past, I think some countries, would 'bomb' (airdrop) propaganda leaflets, into (usually enemy) countries.  To attempt to help with the war effort.  Something like that, perhaps with a more modern technical/digital/internet twist to it, could be repeated these days.  Perhaps to attempt to tell the Russian people, what is really going on, as regards the horrible Russian/Ukraine conflict.
Maybe by using powerful external directional radio transmissions, from western free-speech sources, into Russian territories.  Possibly by infuriating the Russian Internet infrastructure, is practicable/possible.

Perhaps, put a modern twist into it.  By creating millions of USB pens, full of the necessary news articles, from the west. PDFs/HTML and so forth.  Then dropping or distributing, or otherwise making them available to Russians.  Maybe hand boxes of them to 'friendly' Russians, who are happy to spread out such information, to their population.  Ideally without getting caught, and being given a 15 year prison sentence, worse.

The various alternative news sources, are useful.  Especially for getting a broader, less partly-scripted, views of what is going on, and other peoples opinions.  The official news sources, although I appreciate their basic integrity, truthfulness and lack of unsure political interference in their operations.  Political correctness, seems to have invaded too much.  To the point that it can actually affect, the quality and usefulness of the stories, being pushed out.

cdev:
Google originated in an NSF-funded project, not a corporation..  One generally open to college students, education which is increasingly only available to the fairly wealthy. The Clinton Administration made student loan debt undischargeable in bankruptcy..

 https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=100660

There really are no alternative news sources of any note in the US of today, any more, because of various tactics, such as information gerrymandering.. monly two right wing parties and six cororations in the media.. which own countless smaller companies..and control the news..This is consistant with would be Empires.. The US has been plagued with lots of propaganda on the net since around 2013. They use our tax money for it, even though most Americans hate the idea. We have no choice in the matter.  The opublic outlet VOA is not what I mean, thats better than average. What bugs me is their paying news media not usually bloggers to parrot official memes.. etc. Stop spending our money to spin the facts..leave whatever happens alone..EU may do this too..

They should be prohibited from trying to spin the news at all. Since they are government employees.. Certainly its evil to promote a corporate hegemony oriented state. Or company.

cdev:
What Google is doing, with their six Declarations to knowledge (They are asserting that its theirs, stealing it all) is much like the the Spanish Conquests "Requirimento" See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Requirement_of_1513 (also called the Requirimento) IT was read to native villages before attacking and looting them.

That should be studied because it framed the entire conquest of the Amercas for the European kings and queens..Google even created  A Declaration that parrots it. Every act of indigenous resistance was framed by Columbus and his heirs in the government of Spain  as "revolt" thereby legitimating brutal retaliation.Burning entire villages in the dead of the night and hanging women in public view..

Text of Spain's formal "Requirimento" authorizing themselves to steal the New World:

On behalf of the King, Don Fernando, and of Doña Juana I, his daughter, Queen of Castille and León, subduers of the barbarous nations, we their servants notify and make known to you, as best we can, that the Lord our God, Living and Eternal, created the Heaven and the Earth, and one man and one woman, of whom you and we, all the men of the world at the time, were and are descendants, and all those who came after and before us. But, on account of the multitude which has sprung from this man and woman in the five thousand or even more years since the world was created, it was necessary that some men should go one way and some another, and that they should be divided into many kingdoms and provinces, for in one alone they could not be sustained.
Of all these nations God our Lord gave charge to one man, called St. Peter, that he should be Lord and Superior of all the men in the world, that all should obey him, and that he should be the head of the whole Human Race, wherever men should live, and under whatever law, sect, or belief they should be; and he gave him the world for his kingdom and jurisdiction.
And he commanded him to place his seat in Rome, as the spot most fitting to rule the world from; but also he permitted him to have his seat in any other part of the world, and to judge and govern all Christians, Moors, Jews, Gentiles, and all other Sects. This man was called Pope, as if to say, Admirable Great Father and Governor of men. The men who lived in that time obeyed that St. Peter, and took him for Lord, King, and Superior of the universe; so also they have regarded the others who after him have been elected to the pontificate, and so has it been continued even till now, and will continue till the end of the world.
One of these Pontiffs, who succeeded that St. Peter as Lord of the world, in the dignity and seat which I have before mentioned, made donation of these isles and Tierra-firme to the aforesaid King and Queen and to their successors, our lords, with all that there are in these territories, as is contained in certain writings which passed upon the subject as aforesaid, which you can see if you wish.
So their Highnesses are kings and lords of these islands and land of Tierra-firme by virtue of this donation: and some islands, and indeed almost all those to whom this has been notified, have received and served their Highnesses, as lords and kings, in the way that subjects ought to do, with good will, without any resistance, immediately, without delay, when they were informed of the aforesaid facts. And also they received and obeyed the priests whom their Highnesses sent to preach to them and to teach them our Holy Faith; and all these, of their own free will, without any reward or condition, have become Christians, and are so, and their Highnesses have joyfully and benignantly received them, and also have commanded them to be treated as their subjects and vassals; and you too are held and obliged to do the same. Wherefore, as best we can, we ask and require you that you consider what we have said to you, and that you take the time that shall be necessary to understand and deliberate upon it, and that you acknowledge the Church as the Ruler and Superior of the whole world, and the high priest called Pope, and in his name the King and Queen Doña Juana our lords, in his place, as superiors and lords and kings of these islands and this Tierra-firme by virtue of the said donation, and that you consent and give place that these religious fathers should declare and preach to you the aforesaid.
If you do so, you will do well, and that which you are obliged to do to their Highnesses, and we in their name shall receive you in all love and charity, and shall leave you, your wives, and your children, and your lands, free without servitude, that you may do with them and with yourselves freely that which you like and think best, and they shall not compel you to turn Christians, unless you yourselves, when informed of the truth, should wish to be converted to our Holy Catholic Faith, as almost all the inhabitants of the rest of the islands have done. And, besides this, their Highnesses will award you many privileges and exemptions and will grant you many benefits.
But, if you do not do this, and maliciously make delay in it, I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter into your country, and shall make war against you in all ways and manners that we can, and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of their Highnesses; we shall take you and your wives and your children, and shall make slaves of them, and as such shall sell and dispose of them as their Highnesses may command; and we shall take away your goods, and shall do you all the mischief and damage that we can, as to vassals who do not obey, and refuse to receive their lord, and resist and contradict him; and we protest that the deaths and losses which shall accrue from this are your fault, and not that of their Highnesses, or ours, nor of these cavaliers who come with us. And that we have said this to you and made this Requisition, we request the notary here present to give us his testimony in writing, and we ask the rest who are present that they should be witnesses of this Requisition.[8]

eugene:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 09:28:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: eugene on May 04, 2022, 08:31:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 04, 2022, 07:52:18 pm ---I think most people are clever enough to know if it's from RT, it's Russian propaganda, just as most people know the BBC push western propaganda.

--- End quote ---

I really wish that were true. Unfortunately, the current condition in the US (at least the US, probably elsewhere too) is a deep divide between two groups that simply cannot comprehend the what the other is seeing. I know that I'm guilty myself. My own political views seem so obviously true that I'm sure every sane intelligent person agrees with me. Those that don't must be either stupid or deliberately crooked, right?

Given two presidents, A and B, very close to half of the population believes that A is truthfull with only good intentions while B is a filthy and corrupt. Meanwhile, the other half believe that A lies about everything for purely personal gain but B wears a white hat with the best of intentions for the country. It would seem that we can't count on the individual to see the truth without a lot of help.

It's a dumbfounding situation, but I can't think of any way to make it work other than to allow everyone to speak their piece, then provide close analysis and scrutiny of what was said by multiple 'experts'. Of course in practice, this hardly works because people listen to the experts that support whatever they already believe... Maybe more experts to fact check the first experts? Well, yeah, that's what free speech is supposed to be, but it doesn't seem to be freeing us from the circle that goes nowhere.

--- End quote ---
Whilst you''re right of course. What you said wasn't applicable to the part of my post you quoted. I repeat: any idiot can see the British Broadcasting Cooperation, pushes a British i.e. western perspective on things, whilst Russia Today, does exactly the opposite.

Regarding the US presidents: Some people in the UK hate Trump because our mainstream media do, for others it's some of the bollocks he spoke on social media, but a good number of people here love him for being pro-Brexit and anti-immigration. A lot of people here like Biden because he's calm, compared to Trump and the BBC love him, whilst other hate him because they deem him to be incompetent and ineffectual.

--- End quote ---

In retrospect, I think you might have missed my point. At least in the US, a significant portion of the population (maybe almost everyone) doesn't look at two news sources (RT and BBC for example) and recognize that both are pushing propaganda. They see one as pushing propaganda for entirely self serving purposes and the other as heroically providing the truth for the good of all. This breeds an out of control rivalry that results in absolute closed mindedness. A total stalemate.

Certainly there have been plenty of examples of politicians acting more in the interest of themselves and those that support them, but even with my own biases I understand that most politicians have goals they generally believe to be for the public good. I might or might not agree with them. I might have some seriously concerns about their mental health. But I don't believe that they're knowingly trying to achieve personal gains at the expense of the public. Hopefully you understand things in the same way.

Unfortunately, the real problem I see is that a significant majority of Americans don't understand things this way. There's evidence in the way I increasingly notice politicians and journalists use the phrase "the other side" when they are really thinking "the enemy." An adversarial stance is understood and expected, maybe even healthy. But what I see in practice is not healthy. It's a very unhealthy belief that the enemy's primary objective is complete annihilation of everything one believes to be right and good. So they need to be destroyed before they destroy us.

The problem that I'm pointing at is evidenced by news media, but only because the news media is composed of citizens. It's the citizens that scare the hell out of me, whether they're reporting the news, or hanging around bars drinking Budweiser, or hanging around Internet forums pretending to be above it all. So we can try to decide to what degree social media should be throttled, but social media is just a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Anyone trying to convince the "other side" to wake up and smell the coffee is aiming at the wrong target. The problem is not that we disagree, or even that "the other side" often pushes their goals in ways that seem deceitful. It seems to me that the problem is that almost everyone has completely forgotten that generally speaking we all want to get rid of bad things and bring in good things. The problem is not that we disagree about what's good and bad, the problem is that "we" honestly and truly believe that the enemy is deliberately and conciously trying to harm us. It seems obvious to me that this can't really be true. That's the target. We need to get everyone to understand that we're not at war (not talking about Ukraine and Russia) and that the other side isn't our enemy. They may see different things as good and bad, but they are not deliberately trying to make bad things happen. (I do see members of the US congress deliberately trying to make bad things happen to "the other side", but I see that as a symptom of the problem, which is in dire need of treatment, but it is not the problem itself.)

cdev:
Which 90%?   (joke)

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