Author Topic: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)  (Read 67320 times)

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Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« on: February 24, 2020, 03:23:54 am »
I went to the forums to see if there had been any updates to CircuitStudio before I start another project. It seems it hasn't been updated in years now. Apparently, Peter the Altium representive in the forums got made redundant before christmas. All signs are pointing to an abandoned product. It's a bit sad. It was perfect for me as a hobbyist They keep trying to "upsell" me to full AD. of course I am not going to buy that! I am not a professional.

I am thinking about moving to kicad eventually. although I hate the look of the UI.
Does anyone have any insider info to leak?
 

Offline dzseki

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 06:49:22 am »
I don't know Circuit Studio per se, but your posting hit an interesting pitch.
Personally I can think of many-many programs those older versions of say from even 20 years ago would be still very much usable for non professional usage even today.
So what is actually stopping you to use Circuit Studio further?
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Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2020, 08:04:03 am »
Nothing is stopping me right now, but what if I have a license issue in the future and nobody replies to email? I don’t want to get caught out in the middle of a project. Also there are a few very annoying bugs that I constantly face which I wish they would fix. I’d rather be using tools that are still in development. However I am not in any rush to switch, it’s just something I will keep in mind moving forward.
 
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Offline dzseki

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 11:54:15 am »
I assume you have a perpetual licence for the software. Altium is not likely to go under anytime soon, even if the platform becomes abandoned, so at least you could use what you have right now.
HP 1720A scope with HP 1120A probe, EMG 12563 pulse generator, EMG 1257 function generator, EMG 1172B signal generator, MEV TR-1660C bench multimeter
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 05:14:06 pm »
Disclosure: My posts here about CS are (almost) always positive because I actually like it, warts 'n' all.

However, I'm just a matter of days from my CS subscription expiring and I'm struggling to justify renewing it.
I've seen no meaningful updates, or more importantly, no meaningful statements from Altium (or Farnell) on the future of CS.

Why does the subscription even exist?
Am I just paying for vault access?....erm, no thanks.

I'm sure Altium folks read this forum (James Harriman, sir, are you still around?) and if so could someone PLEASE give us hope of updates to come this year?
Tell me 'Find Similar Objects' is coming to CS and I will gladly renew right now!
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 11:19:36 pm »
Disclosure: My posts here about CS are (almost) always positive because I actually like it, warts 'n' all.

However, I'm just a matter of days from my CS subscription expiring and I'm struggling to justify renewing it.
I've seen no meaningful updates, or more importantly, no meaningful statements from Altium (or Farnell) on the future of CS.

Why does the subscription even exist?
Am I just paying for vault access?....erm, no thanks.

I'm sure Altium folks read this forum (James Harriman, sir, are you still around?) and if so could someone PLEASE give us hope of updates to come this year?
Tell me 'Find Similar Objects' is coming to CS and I will gladly renew right now!

I'm with you on this.
I really like CircuitStudio but I think I'll not bother subscribing again. I think we can re-enable subscription later on if say a nice big update arrives.

Ian.
Ian Johnston - Original designer of the PDVS2mini || Author of the free WinGPIB app.
Website - www.ianjohnston.com
YT Channel (electronics repairs & projects): www.youtube.com/user/IanScottJohnston, Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/IanSJohnston
 

Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2020, 01:26:02 am »
I really like it too and am sad it seems to have been left to die.

I have started laying out a small board in KiCAD. It's no-where near as polished as CS, but it hasn't crashed yet.
The clicking behaviour in the viewport drives me insane. I doubt you could design something less intuitive if you tried.
 

Offline JamesH-AltiumOfficial

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2020, 02:27:00 am »
Hi All,

CircuitStudio is indeed being further developed, and is currently being updated to align more closely with our other products. It is taking some time, but please stay tuned for more updates! As soon as I can confirm features such as Find Similar Objects, I'll let you know.

Best regards,
James Harriman
Altium
 
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Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2020, 04:15:18 am »
I am very pleased to hear this. Using other applications really shows how green the grass is on my side :D

Please do share any details you can as soon as possible.
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2020, 12:22:02 pm »
Hi James,

thanks for the update. But you response is about as clear as the messages from last year and the one the year before.

So are we talking updates in a Q1/Q2/Q3/Q4 2020? Or 2021?

It is about time Altium gives some clear direction. And if you can't produce a even a rough timeline - it is clear there is not much effort put into the product - not even enough for plans and deadlines (like the rest of us work with on a daily basis.)

We have now lived with v1.5 from May 24th 2018. (with only a couple of tiny bug fix releases post 1.5 release) - so close to TWO years. And 1.5 vs 1.4 was not really a big release.

best regards

/kaz



Hi All,

CircuitStudio is indeed being further developed, and is currently being updated to align more closely with our other products. It is taking some time, but please stay tuned for more updates! As soon as I can confirm features such as Find Similar Objects, I'll let you know.

Best regards,
James Harriman
Altium
 
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2020, 10:26:47 am »
I was hoping James would return with some concrete plans for CS updates.
Unfortunately that hasn't happened and given the past year of inaction I have to conclude that Altium have no plans for it.
So, my subscription has expired and I give up hope of future useful updates.

However, I will contnue to use CS, it is quite a good tool as-is.
But, dang, with just a few added features it could be a great tool :(
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2020, 04:01:26 pm »
The promise of updates and schedules has come and gone many times. Altium has been a complete let down. I let my subscription go a couple years ago. I still use the software when I need to and it does OK. Altium is the worst company I have ever dealt with.


« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 04:58:05 pm by Joel_l »
 
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Offline mars01

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2020, 05:27:02 am »
The whole approach that Altium had regarding CircuitStudio shows that in the future, if another application will be launched that will let Altium Designer as a secondary product, then those that have an Altium Designer license will be treated the same way.
That's not comforting ... if they will start saying something along the lines: "please upgrade to our new and shiny whatever!"

It's already done with CircuitStudio, it's not such a leap to see it done to Altium Designer.

Therefore the question:
Why should one should buy another product from a company that treat some of their user-base so badly?
Why should a company invest in Altium Designer with such a bad history that Altium has with CircuitStudio?
 

Offline Muessigb

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2020, 04:42:04 pm »
CircuitStudio is indeed being further developed, and is currently being updated to align more closely with our other products. It is taking some time, but please stay tuned for more updates! As soon as I can confirm features such as Find Similar Objects, I'll let you know.

We also really need a keyboard shortcut for select physical connection. Also, making footprints should really be improved by allowing more numeric inputs.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 09:15:11 am »
According to the post at element14 forum, they started refunding users who opt to renew their subscription. Had I not learned the class and style of Altium as a company already, I'd take it as an honest gesture of not charging people for the non-updates and not as a sign of them just abandoning the product altogether and couldn't be arsed to let anybody know properly. I kind of feel for James of Altium a bit who seems to have to chime in here from time to time and try to convince everyone that CS isn't dead, just sleeping. Again. And again.
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2020, 04:39:07 pm »
I saw that post but I'm not sure it means much, maybe just some payment/admin error.
I say that because CS and the subscriptions are still available for purchase:
https://uk.farnell.com/c/engineering-software/eda-ecad-mcad-tools?brand=altium

I wonder if Dave has heard any rumours from inside Altium....
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 07:10:27 am »
Interesting wee development going on there......and it got me thinking about what I would do if Altium dropped CircuitStudio........

- I'd probably just soldier on with it stand alone for ever more (I really like it). I don't use the vault these days instead using SamacSys Components Search engine & Library Loader for symbols and footprints if I don't generate my own.

- I loaded up Eagle V9 (I have a premium license) and the screen redraw is just too slow/draggy (Intel Core i7 8700K, SSD & 32gb).  I do miss being able to use Eagle's ability to drag components around and the traces move also. Still not sure about Eagle's Library management......I used to hate it with a vengance back at V7.

- I loaded up KiCad......but have yet to take a big sigh and try it in anger.

What gets me, is that it's 2020, not 1990, so why of why are there still seemingly big issues with the various Ecad solutions out there. And why haven't Altium been able to keep the dev of CS ticking over all this time.

Ian.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:24:11 am by IanJ »
Ian Johnston - Original designer of the PDVS2mini || Author of the free WinGPIB app.
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 05:31:42 pm »
I'd probably just soldier on with it stand alone for ever more (I really like it).

Me too.
It has all the features I really need, although I do miss Find Similar Objects that AD has...
...but for the modest boards I design I can just about live without it.
It's not worth the extra 5000GBP to get that feature!
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2020, 07:47:58 pm »
Got another "Special Offer" to upgrade to full Altium late last week. GBP 2765,- I think it was. And I guess it was excl. VAT but they did not elaborate on that. It included first year maintenance but no details on ongoing maintenance cost in the offer letter.
 

Offline Sal Ammoniac

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2020, 04:15:16 am »
Same here. The offer in the States is $3500 to upgrade to the full AD package.
"That's not even wrong" -- Wolfgang Pauli
 

Offline Muessigb

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2020, 09:28:53 pm »
Got another "Special Offer" to upgrade to full Altium late last week. GBP 2765,- I think it was. And I guess it was excl. VAT but they did not elaborate on that. It included first year maintenance but no details on ongoing maintenance cost in the offer letter.
I got a similar offer from an Altium employee. I was being presented a special offer for 2830,- EUR, which I declined.
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2020, 10:15:33 pm »
I missed a call from Altium the other day. I suspect it was to try and get me to upgrade. They are clueless about their customer base. They seems to think that foks that bought a 500 dollar software are going to upgrade to multi K dollar software and just as expensive subscription fees.

But, just because CS was much less expensive, does not mean we deserve the total lack of support and development. We are talking years now.
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2020, 01:02:49 pm »
I missed a call from Altium the other day. I suspect it was to try and get me to upgrade. They are clueless about their customer base. They seems to think that foks that bought a 500 dollar software are going to upgrade to multi K dollar software and just as expensive subscription fees.

But, just because CS was much less expensive, does not mean we deserve the total lack of support and development. We are talking years now.
I upgraded to Altium from CS.  Of course I use it for professional boards.   
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2020, 02:59:44 pm »
Things are happening......believe me.

Ian.
Ian Johnston - Original designer of the PDVS2mini || Author of the free WinGPIB app.
Website - www.ianjohnston.com
YT Channel (electronics repairs & projects): www.youtube.com/user/IanScottJohnston, Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/IanSJohnston
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2020, 06:08:30 pm »
Things are happening......believe me.

Ian.

so would you recommend to renew the subscription or just wait... ... (You can't just put a post like that out there without a little bit of clarification *G*)
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2020, 10:25:22 pm »
Things are happening......believe me.

Ian.

Believe what?   ^-^
 

Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2020, 11:04:26 am »
Things are happening......believe me.

Ian.

I would hold my breath, but I fear that we’ll be living in cities on the moon before I draw breath again.
 

Offline slowertech

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2020, 02:19:36 am »
Just caught a Facebook ad for this. Looks like a rebranding of the software also.

https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pror
 

Offline pgo

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2020, 03:57:18 am »
Not a re-branding of CircuitStudio.  If anything the link implies CircuitStudio is dead.

CircuitMaker is a tool that is tied closely to the online setup with projects and such online.
It appears that it will be updated to CircuitMaker Pro.
It is unclear if the new version it will follow the same online format.

I tried CircuitMaker previously and didn't like it much.  It is however free!
https://www.altium.com/circuitmaker/overview

I can't see that a 'free' upgrade from CircuitStudio is much of an offer unless the CircuitMaker Pro provides a non-free non-online tool.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 03:58:59 am by pgo »
 

Offline jmw

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2020, 04:07:46 am »
No, it sounds like they're straight up rebranding it - "Altium CircuitStudio has been completely upgraded and renamed as Altium CircuitMaker Pro".

The lineup looks like it will be
CircuitMaker (free, web-based)
CircuitMaker Pro (paid, stripped down Designer)
Designer (paid)
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2020, 08:14:57 am »
Hmmm, all I wanted was 'Find Similar Objects'.
Online only will be a no-no for me, so hopefully they haven't gone that route.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2020, 08:38:19 am »
When Autodesk did that with Eagle they (Altium) used that fact to push Circuit Studio and I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of those who DID switch from Eagle to CS did so because of that fact (at least I'm one).

I sure hope Altium does not f--k us over like Autodesk did but I suppose the odds aren't exactly on our side...
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2020, 09:31:34 am »
I reckon I'm not the only one to have bought a CS subscription long time ago and let it lapse after the first year, disappointed by the complete lack of any meaningful updates. On the news page they say:
Quote
Altium will continue to support existing Altium CircuitStudio customers; current users who are on a valid subscription will have the option to upgrade to Altium CircuitMaker Pro at no additional cost after the Beta cycle is successfully completed.
I am wondering what I should do now: take another gamble and renew now so I'm a "current user who is on a valid subscription" at the time of release or just wait until they officially release the thing and (if) I'm sure it's actually worth it. They don't make it easier by changing the name so they could always say "Tough luck, man, it's a different product so you'll have to pay the full price again" and make it seem like upgrading folks currently on subscription is some kind of a gesture on their part instead of just delivering on the agreement.
 

Offline JamesH-AltiumOfficial

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2020, 11:47:59 am »
I am wondering what I should do now: take another gamble and renew now so I'm a "current user who is on a valid subscription" at the time of release or just wait until they officially release the thing and (if) I'm sure it's actually worth it. They don't make it easier by changing the name so they could always say "Tough luck, man, it's a different product so you'll have to pay the full price again" and make it seem like upgrading folks currently on subscription is some kind of a gesture on their part instead of just delivering on the agreement.
Hi Zbig,
Changing the name does not mean a new product, so this isn't a scenario to raise concern. You'll be able to install the updated version (which happens to be named CircuitMaker Pro 2.0) provided your subscription is up to date. If it's not, you may purchase it now, or later, so there are no gotcha's being planned.
Best regards,
James Harriman
Altium
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2020, 12:07:58 pm »
Therefore the question:
Why should one should buy another product from a company that treat some of their user-base so badly?
Why should a company invest in Altium Designer with such a bad history that Altium has with CircuitStudio?

Customers will put up with a lot because they are locked into the tool, either through personal time/skills investment or through their company.
I've lost count of the number of times Altium have peeved off customers big time over at least the last 20 years, the list is long and distinguished, it's not a new thing, yet they never lose customer base.
Sure the odd person here or there takes their bat and ball and goes home, but most do not, they just stick it out and grumble about it and play the long game.
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2020, 12:09:40 pm »
Hi,

So I emailed to Altium about some of the concerns. I have gotten permission to publish the following reply:
Quote
Dear David,

...[Stuff specific to our company removed]...

Both CircuitStudio / CircuitMaker Pro and Altium Designer are perpetual licenses so most of the features continue working after your subscription times out. However the subscription features will no longer be available. The main subscription feature to consider is Altium 365, which provides a private workspace to save your libraries and designs into the cloud, and share it with colleagues, or specific releases to manufacturers. The web view also enables viewing and commenting on the live designs.

The products can be used offline (without cloud features, of course), so if you need to install in an offline location, this is possible, but you need to discuss with Support how you can install without access to the Internet, so that you can install and license the software by transferring the files.

Best regards,
So that's a relief.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2020, 12:13:19 pm »
No, it sounds like they're straight up rebranding it - "Altium CircuitStudio has been completely upgraded and renamed as Altium CircuitMaker Pro".
The lineup looks like it will be
CircuitMaker (free, web-based)
CircuitMaker Pro (paid, stripped down Designer)
Designer (paid)

Makes sense. The three different tool names was always too many.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2020, 12:16:36 pm »
I reckon I'm not the only one to have bought a CS subscription long time ago and let it lapse after the first year, disappointed by the complete lack of any meaningful updates. On the news page they say:
Quote
Altium will continue to support existing Altium CircuitStudio customers; current users who are on a valid subscription will have the option to upgrade to Altium CircuitMaker Pro at no additional cost after the Beta cycle is successfully completed.
I am wondering what I should do now: take another gamble and renew now so I'm a "current user who is on a valid subscription" at the time of release or just wait until they officially release the thing and (if) I'm sure it's actually worth it. They don't make it easier by changing the name so they could always say "Tough luck, man, it's a different product so you'll have to pay the full price again" and make it seem like upgrading folks currently on subscription is some kind of a gesture on their part instead of just delivering on the agreement.

Why not get access to the Beta program and find out what the new features are? I'm sure James would be happy to arrange access.
 
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Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2020, 10:27:26 pm »
I am a Circuitstudio user. I have let my subscription lapse because there was no signs of life or development. However, I would really like to try the beta, to see if some longstanding bugs I fight with every time I use Circuitstuio have been fixed.

Is this something I can join?
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2020, 02:21:33 pm »
I think the interesting questions are

1. Is it more like Designer?
2. Will it be updated together with Designer (or close to)
3. Will the price stay at current level ($595?)
4. Will the renewal stay at current level ($130'ish??)
5. Can you renew for current price to get to "CircuitMaker Pro" after the re-launch? (or will Altium pull an Autodesk....)

Remember CircuitStudio started out at ? $995/seat?

/k
 
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2020, 05:36:54 pm »
IIRC CS started out in the UK at around £2500
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2020, 12:50:52 am »
IIRC CS started out in the UK at around £2500

Yeah, it was something like that, then they dropped it to $995 in 2016:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-reboot/
I wonder if that "lifetime subscription" still works?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 12:53:40 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2020, 05:06:26 am »
IIRC CS started out in the UK at around £2500

Yeah, it was something like that, then they dropped it to $995 in 2016:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-reboot/
I wonder if that "lifetime subscription" still works?
Before I got Altium I was using Circuit Studio.  I just tried to pen it and it is still working.  If I was just doing hobby stuff I would still be using it.  But I do engineering so I decided I needed Altium which I like. 

I paid $995 for my copy. 
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2020, 09:34:31 am »
CS has worked fine for me doing commercial work too.
For 2/4L boards and when not doing much high-speed or BGA stuff, it works fine.
There is a surprising amount of commercial PCBs that fit into that category.
Would be great if it had the 'find similar objects' feature...here's hoping the imminent new version has something like it.
 

Offline Kelbit

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2020, 05:19:41 pm »
I stopped paying CS maintenance in 2018 since the tool wasn't being actively updated. Will Altium allow users who are behind on maintenance to pay the back maintenance to get access to the new version of the product (assuming it's any good)?
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2020, 08:39:46 pm »
I stopped paying CS maintenance in 2018 since the tool wasn't being actively updated. Will Altium allow users who are behind on maintenance to pay the back maintenance to get access to the new version of the product (assuming it's any good)?

Just re-start paying maintenance from this point onwards and get access to the upgrade (when its available that is). You wouldn't need to pay any back maintenance.

Ian.
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Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2020, 10:21:28 am »
But how do you do that?
I looked the other day and couldn't figure out how to "reorder" maintenance from within the software. I could order a new license though.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2020, 11:55:23 am »
But how do you do that?
I looked the other day and couldn't figure out how to "reorder" maintenance from within the software. I could order a new license though.
You can order it from Farnell for instance...

https://export.farnell.com/altium/11-004-15-1-e/circuitstudio-1-yr-renewal-maintenance/dp/2460555
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2020, 02:52:20 pm »
Thanks! Unfortunately I don't think I can because Farnell Sweden only sells to registered companies in Sweden (and I don't have one) and if I try to order from the export.farnell.com site they redirect me to Sweden so I end up in an endless loop.

It was actually quite a struggle to make them take my $495 for the license in the first place, something I complained about it one of the threads here.

But hey, I can always try again, perhaps it does work this time.
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2020, 03:17:33 pm »
Thanks! Unfortunately I don't think I can because Farnell Sweden only sells to registered companies in Sweden (and I don't have one) and if I try to order from the export.farnell.com site they redirect me to Sweden so I end up in an endless loop.

It was actually quite a struggle to make them take my $495 for the license in the first place, something I complained about it one of the threads here.

But hey, I can always try again, perhaps it does work this time.
Yes, now that you reminded me I believe I remember your saga with Farnell...
That question can be sent to James from altium (member here).
Regards,
Sinisa
 

Offline JamesH-AltiumOfficial

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2020, 12:45:38 am »
But how do you do that?
I looked the other day and couldn't figure out how to "reorder" maintenance from within the software. I could order a new license though.
Hi H.O. Please send me a PM with your email address if you'd like me to help you with this.
On the Licensing screen, the system will sometimes offer the "Renew" option adjacent to your license. However this will only be available if the system has enough information about your account and there are no ambiguities.
In your case, since you're not seeing this option, I will contact Element14 to ask them to help you to get your order processed.

Best regards,
James Harriman
Alitum
 
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Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2020, 03:26:29 am »
To me, it's bizarre they don't just utilise the Altium Designer core and cripple certain aspects depending on the level purchased and whether subs are ongoing.
It seems the likes of Solidworks integration may be a focus for non-core Altium resources and as a user of Solidworks, I don't "need" PCB integration but I do appreciate the ability to cross-pollenate modelling.

The cost of CS was/is attractive but the lack of updates and UI/feature refinement is not at a level expected for such an offering. Free maybe but then look at the life cycle of a kicad release. I may be comparing crayons with technical pens tho.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2020, 11:39:23 am »
To me, it's bizarre they don't just utilise the Altium Designer core and cripple certain aspects depending on the level purchased and whether subs are ongoing.

This may still stem  from the old "turning the world of electronics design upside down" marketing campaign (and even before that) when they bet the company that FPGA was the future, and they actually made the PCB tool optional extra  :palm:
They knew that people just wanted the basic PCB tool and didn't want the FPGA, modular design or programming stuff , but because they had sold the investors on this vision (and believed in it) they couldn't go with a "buy just what you need licensing model" because then that would could expose the FPGA/modular design dream as something nobody wanted, as sales for those modules would be near zero. So they had to stick to the "all you can eat" pricing model to force uses to pay for the whole thing to get basic PCB functionality.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090311063044/http://fpgajournal.com/articles_2007/20070619_altium.htm

Now that all that hoopla is long gone, it might still be relevant, because if you have to pay for various extra tools, then you quickly find out where your bread and butter income comes from. That's useful, but sometimes you are better off not knowing when it comes to a company growth perspective. e.g. if you find out 90%+ of your customers only need a basic $2000 core tool, then it might be hard to sell all the money spent on developing new bells and whistles to the investors.
It's a tough call, but I don't blame them for sticking with the "all you can eat" pricing model.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 11:41:55 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2020, 05:15:02 pm »
To me, it's bizarre they don't just utilise the Altium Designer core and cripple certain aspects depending on the level purchased and whether subs are ongoing.

It's a tough call, but I don't blame them for sticking with the "all you can eat" pricing model.

It is understandable given most corps are bean counter driven, and if Circuitmaker Pro is a "slice" of Designer, that would even make transferring knowledge between program use even more intuitive.
 

Offline jamiechi

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2020, 07:16:22 am »
I am still unclear whether I should get Circuit Studio. It is selling at Newark for $495. (version 1.5 I think)
I have several years experience with Protel and Altium.
Or should I go with Diptrace?
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2020, 11:39:14 am »
I am still unclear whether I should get Circuit Studio. It is selling at Newark for $495. (version 1.5 I think)
I have several years experience with Protel and Altium.
Or should I go with Diptrace?

Between those, I'd go with Circuit Studio, it will be ore familiar (and likely more capable?)
 

Offline olkipukki

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2020, 09:48:56 pm »
I am still unclear whether I should get Circuit Studio. It is selling at Newark for $495. (version 1.5 I think)
I have several years experience with Protel and Altium.
Or should I go with Diptrace?

Try DipTrace for free, you can always spend $$$ on Circuit Studio as the last resort.
The tool is not for everyone and will required a bit adjustment in mindset, but as the rule a thumb once your know any CAD, just matter of time if you want adopt to something else :)

Alternative, perhaps consider something that might be useful later https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/orcad-price-drop/
 

Offline jamiechi

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2020, 03:40:35 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will go with Circuit Studio. Easier to stick with what I know. (I tried Orcad once but hated the user interface.)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 03:43:54 pm by jamiechi »
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2020, 01:37:36 am »
I saw CS to be like a mini AD,  but I am no expert. My choice is KiCAD. However, I would like to ask what are the main features and reasons to get CS? I mean, Altium must have had a market idea about it... right?

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2020, 02:13:23 am »
I saw CS to be like a mini AD,  but I am no expert. My choice is KiCAD. However, I would like to ask what are the main features and reasons to get CS? I mean, Altium must have had a market idea about it... right?

Nope, they didn't.
As I understand it Element 14 approached Altium for a PCB package to sell so Altium created CS specifically for them.
 
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2020, 09:15:44 am »
I saw CS to be like a mini AD,  but I am no expert. My choice is KiCAD. However, I would like to ask what are the main features and reasons to get CS? I mean, Altium must have had a market idea about it... right?

Nope, they didn't.
As I understand it Element 14 approached Altium for a PCB package to sell so Altium created CS specifically for them.

Well, is it that simple? I mean the effort and so on to make a pcb package and maintain it...

it is about 500$ so not so cheap. I thought about asking those who bought it why they did despite stuff like kicad exist.

Very little youtube videos about it too

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2020, 09:53:17 am »
I saw CS to be like a mini AD,  but I am no expert. My choice is KiCAD. However, I would like to ask what are the main features and reasons to get CS? I mean, Altium must have had a market idea about it... right?

Nope, they didn't.
As I understand it Element 14 approached Altium for a PCB package to sell so Altium created CS specifically for them.

Well, is it that simple? I mean the effort and so on to make a pcb package and maintain it...

It's probably not much work, it was just Altium stripped down. Element 14 is a big customer will a lot of pull.
And I don't think they did much maintenance on it  ;D
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2020, 10:02:25 am »
I saw CS to be like a mini AD,  but I am no expert. My choice is KiCAD. However, I would like to ask what are the main features and reasons to get CS? I mean, Altium must have had a market idea about it... right?

Nope, they didn't.
As I understand it Element 14 approached Altium for a PCB package to sell so Altium created CS specifically for them.

Well, is it that simple? I mean the effort and so on to make a pcb package and maintain it...

it is about 500$ so not so cheap. I thought about asking those who bought it why they did despite stuff like kicad exist.

Very little youtube videos about it too

I think the price was way higher when they released it. Then there was a chicken fight between Eagle (Autodesk) and Circuit Maker (Altium) and the price went down significantly.
Ultimately both parties failed in their own way and many hobbyists and even professionals moved to KiCad. I was seriously considering Circuit Studio but I am happy that it was about
the time I moved to Linux and KiCad was the only choice. Sure, it has many quirks but at least it is in active development with the community growing.


Edit: Holy moly, Altium has really schizophrenia !
https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pror
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 10:04:35 am by Warhawk »
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2020, 10:53:01 am »
I saw CS to be like a mini AD,  but I am no expert. My choice is KiCAD. However, I would like to ask what are the main features and reasons to get CS? I mean, Altium must have had a market idea about it... right?

Nope, they didn't.
As I understand it Element 14 approached Altium for a PCB package to sell so Altium created CS specifically for them.

Well, is it that simple? I mean the effort and so on to make a pcb package and maintain it...

it is about 500$ so not so cheap. I thought about asking those who bought it why they did despite stuff like kicad exist.

Very little youtube videos about it too

I think the price was way higher when they released it.

Yes, it was $990 for several years.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2020, 05:26:50 pm »
I remember it being about that 1000$ price, but yes it kept getting lower and lower.

I was digging today and found people complain that it doesn't have panelization feature... is this correct?

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2020, 06:37:29 pm »
I was digging today and found people complain that it doesn't have panelization feature... is this correct?

It does, sorta, kinda...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/video-circuitstudio-panel-layout/
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2020, 08:23:56 pm »
I was digging today and found people complain that it doesn't have panelization feature... is this correct?

It does, sorta, kinda...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/video-circuitstudio-panel-layout/

You need a copy of AD to do this?! and yet it is manual stuff after that. Even KiCAD does it better despite doing it manually too by making an array.

I think CS must support this feature if it is a "professional" tool.

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2020, 12:27:03 pm »
any news on release?
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2020, 11:58:45 pm »
any news on release?
looks like it is dead as people here say. I am sure the official account will come and say it is not dead..etc. I hope they focus on this software since it is really nice.

I'd prefer if they have a feature request page or something. I am using kicad for now  but if i am going to get CS one day, the feature that I want is a fully automated panelization. I don't think I need to pay 500$ or so for a software then do the exact same effort I do with a free one to do the same job.

When they say "Professional", then it should have such important features... at least in my book.

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2020, 01:56:29 am »
any news on release?
looks like it is dead as people here say. I am sure the official account will come and say it is not dead..etc. I hope they focus on this software since it is really nice.

I'd prefer if they have a feature request page or something. I am using kicad for now  but if i am going to get CS one day, the feature that I want is a fully automated panelization. I don't think I need to pay 500$ or so for a software then do the exact same effort I do with a free one to do the same job.

When they say "Professional", then it should have such important features... at least in my book.

I didn't know CS didn't have panelisation, I just assumed it did, that's pretty basic stuff!
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2020, 06:54:30 am »
any news on release?
looks like it is dead as people here say. I am sure the official account will come and say it is not dead..etc. I hope they focus on this software since it is really nice.

I'd prefer if they have a feature request page or something. I am using kicad for now  but if i am going to get CS one day, the feature that I want is a fully automated panelization. I don't think I need to pay 500$ or so for a software then do the exact same effort I do with a free one to do the same job.

When they say "Professional", then it should have such important features... at least in my book.

I didn't know CS didn't have panelisation, I just assumed it did, that's pretty basic stuff!

see? I was thinking like you until I found out.

I was searching how to do it in kicad but thought about CS, I found a video of someone doing it manually using an embedded array from AD.

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2020, 09:11:19 am »
I already linked the relevant thread.
The file attached there is all you new need, its just a file with an embedded board array  :-//
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2020, 09:15:02 am »
There is a new version of CS on the way, rebranded and with new features.
I think the sensible thing would be to wait and test that to see if it suits your needs.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2020, 03:51:00 pm »
There is a new version of CS on the way, rebranded and with new features.
I think the sensible thing would be to wait and test that to see if it suits your needs.

You mean circuitmaker pro? we still don't know about it and this is too a bad thing since multiple major changes doesn't mean stability.

but you are correct, we need to wait and see. but when will this happen if you know?

how can we request certain features like panelization?

Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2021, 09:49:45 am »
I wonder if CS owners will get access to Circuitmaker Pro or is a Altium shaped shaft approaching again?
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2021, 03:13:30 pm »
There is a new version of CS on the way, rebranded and with new features.
I think the sensible thing would be to wait and test that to see if it suits your needs.

I'm not really in "the loop" but rebranded as what?  I've spent two weeks with the CS eval package and several years with AD.  Fairly pleased with CS at the price and feature set but it's missing a few important (to me) features.  One is being able to interrogate a net name in schematic.  I don't want to have to name every net around components in a diff path (eg. USB cm chokes, protection, etc.) and while cross probing works, showing net name when floating over it or looking at it properties should be basic.  I have Diptrace also and even this allows net interrogation, a basic feature.

Also, it would be nice to be able to globally color and change width of a net.  I know all about hierarchical design so please don't get me going on that.  There is a time and place for it.

Regarding rebranding, a related thought I had the other day is that Altium / Element14 should focus on expanding the market for this package.  Several important parts of that are NAME RECOGNITION and a STABLE, SUPPORTED product.  Most people would like stability in a product since they've invested considerable time in it.
 
Hey, how about " Altium Lite ", following Autodesk's early lead with Autocad.  My apologies if this has already been suggested.



 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2021, 10:39:24 pm »
I wonder if CS owners will get access to Circuitmaker Pro or is a Altium shaped shaft approaching again?

https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pror

"Altium will continue to support existing Altium CircuitStudio customers; current users who are on a valid subscription will have the option to upgrade to Altium CircuitMaker Pro at no additional cost after the Beta cycle is successfully completed"

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2021, 11:27:24 pm »
I'm in the loop now, thanks.  Fortunately, it sounds decent.  Being closer to the AD code base is a good thing.  May pick up a lot of features that were not "killed off".

Wait a minute, wasn't Circuit Maker the one which was cloud based with several goofy price points and you had to share designs with the world?
I want locally installed executables, permanent license, local storage of MY libraries, MY work, cloud access only where needed for free or purchased libraries.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 12:47:19 am by EE-digger »
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2021, 07:05:03 pm »
If it's ever released, it's not the same as the cloud version. All will be local
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2021, 08:20:35 pm »
It is good that their project is still active, but keep changing stuff is really bad. I think if they went for free version, 300$ version, then full AD would be best.

I posted previously that CS lacks the panelizing feature which is a must for any professional tool. Workarounds are for KiCAD and such packages, not for 500$ one.

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2021, 08:33:17 am »
I find it slightly odd that the beta is still running. (But not surprising)

Either is was not really a BETA (definition : Feature Complete -  all known bugs exterminated or documented - might still have unknown bugs)

- or it really was really a ALPHA release? (Not feature complete - lots of bugs...)

I think the term "SOON" needs to be redefined...  (As in "Coming Soon: Altium CircuitMaker Pro®) - as we are redefining the meaning of so many other words at the moment why not add SOON to the list?

 ;D
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2021, 10:59:51 pm »
Or a, lets see how many people bite and renew their subscription.
 

Offline Mark19960

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2021, 11:15:51 pm »
I have a sub but I will question that when it comes due if this is still "beta".
I don't know anyone that has the beta personally.
My guess is that anyone using the beta is under some NDA that they can't even disclose that they have it.

but, obligatory.... anyone here have the beta? :)
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2021, 12:12:03 am »
There is someone on the Element14 site in the CS forum that claims to be a Beta tester.
 

Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2021, 08:43:13 am »
Or a, lets see how many people bite and renew their subscription.

This. CS lack of updates should automatically upgrade those on subs at the time of the CMPro announcement, not at the time of release.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2021, 10:57:54 am »
Or a, lets see how many people bite and renew their subscription.
Yeah, had it not been near right impossible to actually make that purchase I probably would have renewed when the CMPro discussion started a couple of months ago.
But despite JamesH trying to help it's simply impossible from here. In-app I can only purchase NEW licenses. Unfortunately I get the feeling that, one way or another, they're pulling an Autodesk on us...
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2021, 01:27:25 pm »
Before I bit for CS a few weeks ago, I asked some questions about CM Pro, Altium source will not be divulged here.  It is supposedly at level 3 Beta.

If this were a vaccine, we'd be getting our shots soon   :) :) :)

Three is better than one at least.

H.O. - CS maintenance has a part number and price at Element14/Farnell/Newark.  Would this work for you in SE?  I would hope that once there's a release, you get a big smile when you check for updates online.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2021, 03:29:48 pm »
H.O. - CS maintenance has a part number and price at Element14/Farnell/Newark.  Would this work for you in SE?  I would hope that once there's a release, you get a big smile when you check for updates online.
Nope, they don't want my money. In order to buy from them you have to have registered business.
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2021, 12:54:04 am »
If I worked for Altium, you would have whatever you need, gratis  :-+  (but sorry, no free AD unless I get one too)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 12:56:14 am by EE-digger »
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #89 on: April 10, 2021, 09:14:10 am »
That beta really takes time...

I guess release is scheduled for when everyones subscriptions have run out....
 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2021, 05:08:41 pm »
Nothing here surprises me. Altium continues to lose credibility.

 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2021, 09:52:55 am »
Well it seems like a few things are happening....

1. Via Element 14 - some "hidden" YouTube videos about CircuitMaker Pro : from Dec 2020

2. My current 1.5.2 license screen now says my license is for CircuitMaker Pro?....

 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #92 on: May 05, 2021, 12:38:48 am »
Do you have a current maintenance subscription?

Update: Answered my own question, I let my subscription lapse years ago and my license page is saying CircuitMaker Pro, the actual program is still CircuitSudio
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 12:52:05 am by Joel_l »
 

Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #93 on: May 05, 2021, 07:32:48 am »
Taking two weeks to update my subscription status is taking the "christ-on-a-bike" saying a bit far. C'mon Newark/Altium, this should be child's play at this stage.

Mine also shows Circuitmaker Pro.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #94 on: May 05, 2021, 10:15:14 am »
Yeah, some 7 months ago, when the news about the "Pro version" first surfaced, JamesH from Altium tried to rectify the situation for me but his efforts was fruitless. I could not renew subscription from within the software and Farnell don't want my money since I don't have a company account.

(I have not tried for several months now).

It might have been for the best though since another 7 months without any updates now have passed...

 

Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #95 on: May 05, 2021, 03:34:53 pm »
What ever they are doing, for me to buy in again,

I will try the demo and it needs to be a noticeable improvement over CS that I have now.

I will assume it will be years and years before it is ever touched again, so the CircuitMaker Pro that is released will have to stand on its own as being worth the subscription renewal.

CS throws up on itself with bigger projects, the Altium excuse was they did that on purpose to limit project size, the reality is that it is based on an ancient code base and poor database management ( IMO ).

In any case, I will evaluate what comes out and act accordingly.
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #96 on: July 26, 2021, 10:28:15 am »
Well - is it dead yet? Are we there yet?


Seems like we are going to hit the 1 year mark post CircuitMaker Pro announcement soon (in 2 months - September 22)

So what are the odds it will "launch" before the 1 year mark - if it will launch at all?


 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #97 on: July 26, 2021, 10:07:16 pm »
I wouldn't be putting any money on it (or in it). I know a lot of rusted-on Altium/CS fans won't like me saying this, but KiCAD is just sweeping up the cheap end of the market and heading up - and has an Altium importer as well.

Any prospective CS buyer who can use Google will see that CS isn't really loved and may think twice, or "give KiCAD a go" and just stay there.

Online 2N3055

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #98 on: July 26, 2021, 11:14:38 pm »
Usability of Kicad GUI is very questionable. I wait for version 6 to see if they fixed basic drawing functions. Right now it is really very much behind how nice is to draw in Circuit Studio.
Also some basic things are still missing.

On the other hand, CircuitStudio is a deliberately cut down version from Altium and will never be allowed to have any advanced features.
And if Kicad keeps advancing, it will surpass it in power. And if they fix ergonomics and functionality issues (as they seem to be doing so far) it might as well be good enough for low/mid range work..
 
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Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2021, 02:26:37 pm »
Yeah, I really don't understand what they're up to.
In my quest to renew my subscription I've tried three different ways of contacting "them". Sent email to pcbsoftware@element14.com, to altiumsupport@farnell.com and used the Contact Us form at https://www.altium.com/circuitstudio/contact-us. All without getting a single reply - nothing.
 

Offline jmarkwolf

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #100 on: July 30, 2021, 05:14:18 pm »
Before I bit for CS a few weeks ago, I asked some questions about CM Pro, Altium source will not be divulged here.  It is supposedly at level 3 Beta.


It's been at Beta 3 according to what Jim Harrington told me in mid-December.

Glad I didn't wait to pony up for AD. I am curious what CS Pro will look like however.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #101 on: July 30, 2021, 09:26:14 pm »
Usability of Kicad GUI is very questionable.

Except a lot of engineers are able to, you know, design complex boards in Kicad. The GUI could be better, it has been a lot worse, but to call it "questionable" means you haven't bothered to spend any time learning how to actually use the software.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #102 on: July 30, 2021, 11:11:42 pm »
Usability of Kicad GUI is very questionable.

Except a lot of engineers are able to, you know, design complex boards in Kicad. The GUI could be better, it has been a lot worse, but to call it "questionable" means you haven't bothered to spend any time learning how to actually use the software.

You can make toothpicks with an axe.. It's just very weird and cumbersome. Same as Kicad. As I said, I'm, waiting for 6.0 to come out, that one should have many of my major complaints fixed so we will see.
I'm sure by the version 7.0 Kicad will be very serious software. At this moment it's not. Yet.
And yes, I'm old enough that I was making my films with Letraset by hand. That also could and was done. Compared to that Kicad is fantastic. Compared to most of the pro tools of today, it's not. It's great at some things and (still) completely amateur hour in some places. But as I said, it is galloping forward and it's better every day. I'm sure I'l start using in next few versions.. Maybe even v 6.
 
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Offline kaz911

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #103 on: September 22, 2021, 09:00:24 am »
Celebration time!!!

It is now been 1 whole year!!! since Altium officially announced Circuit Make Pro - and without delivering anything!  :palm:

https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pror

Quote
Altium CircuitMaker Pro is currently in Beta testing. After the Beta cycle is complete, the program will be released for commercial sale.

So lets get the dancing shoes out - have a "barbie" on the beach and enjoy another year with no real Altium Circuit Maker/Studio updates.

 :popcorn:

 
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Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #104 on: December 10, 2021, 03:54:34 pm »
Any news on the CS Pro or whatever?
It's been what? 2 years now?

Anyway....
I got an email from my "Personal Altium Contact" who asked if there was anything he could do for me (sell me stuff - obviously). I explained to him my difficulties in renewing my CS license, that the option to do it from within the app doesn't exist for me and that Farnell refuses to accept my order due me not being/having a registered company.

Low and behold - he promptly forwarded my email to another bloke who promptly came back to me with the solution: "Please contact Farnell, our global partner, to renew your CircuitStudio Licence".  :palm:

Who are these people?
 
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Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2021, 11:50:34 pm »
Any news on the CS Pro or whatever?
It's been what? 2 years now?

Anyway....
I got an email from my "Personal Altium Contact" who asked if there was anything he could do for me (sell me stuff - obviously). I explained to him my difficulties in renewing my CS license, that the option to do it from within the app doesn't exist for me and that Farnell refuses to accept my order due me not being/having a registered company.

Low and behold - he promptly forwarded my email to another bloke who promptly came back to me with the solution: "Please contact Farnell, our global partner, to renew your CircuitStudio Licence".  :palm:

Who are these people?

Idiots. Do you have any government consumer affairs body you can contact? You've legitimately purchased a product and now you're required to pay to keep using it, but they're barring you from doing so. In Australia we have  "consumer affairs" that can intervene and get a resolution. Perhaps you do too over there?
 
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Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2021, 12:28:54 am »
It's not worth my time or effort trying to FORCE them into anything, I'm not THAT invested OR interested in it. I just took a chance now that THEY asked ME if there was anything they could do for me.

To be fair, I don't need to pay to keep using the version I HAVE payed for. What I can't buy is the right to updates - which there hasn't been any for years so it's all for the best to be honest. It's been something like 2 years since they hinted about the CM Pro update but it all looks like vapourware.
 

Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2022, 11:00:04 pm »
I noticed when trying to install Solidworks on a machine running Circuit Studio that the SW installer asked for DXP.exe to be closed.

Delays in CMP and complete lack of comms/updates may be related to the SW partnership as it seems the executable (DXP.exe) is their integrated(ish) PCB design and visualisation tool.

It's a fiasco held in a roaring silence.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #108 on: April 12, 2022, 11:23:36 am »
Need to recommend a PCB design software package to a friend.  The concept of CircuitStudio is sort of in the sweet spot for what they are looking to do.  Shame Altium didn't maintain it.
Altium is still advertising circuitstudio with no mention of "CircuitMaker Pro" on their site.
Docs page still lists last version as "CIRCUITSTUDIO 1.5 Released:  24 May 2018 - Version: 1.5.1 (build 13) ": http://documentation.circuitstudio.com/display/CSTU/New+in+CircuitStudio

Anyone know anything new about this?
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #109 on: April 12, 2022, 03:43:17 pm »
I used CircuitStudio 1.5 commercially for a few years. It had some annoyances and missing features (find similar objects) but it got the job done. Would I recommend spending money on it today? No. Altium is totally focused on Designer and locking those customers in with the Altium cloud offerings. They don't give a damn about CS customers and have abandoned them. Farnell Element14 will have some responsibility in that also.

They only possible scenario where I could recommend CS is for someone who wants to land a job at an Altium desk but doesn't yet have AD experience or the money to purchase it. It might be useful in that case because the workflow is similar.

Otherwise I'd recommend KiCAD 6 (free) or DipTrace (low cost, not subscription).
 
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Offline Joel_l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #110 on: April 15, 2022, 11:51:28 pm »
I gave up on Altium, what they do is worse than just lack of support. They put out fake news about updates to generate some cash then disappear again without having delivered anything.

I left CS and went to DipTrace.
 
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Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #111 on: May 17, 2022, 06:46:12 am »
So... my subscription to their almighty content vault has expired and won't be getting renewed. A truly awesome example of how not to release and support any software, nor how to gain customers or loyalty.

Diptrace gets my vote after spending an hour with it, having gerbers which passed the manufacturing test and finding features which don't bug me!

£130 doesn't seem bad for 4-layer, 1000 pin, non commercial.
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #112 on: May 17, 2022, 08:02:31 am »
Diptrace gets my vote after spending an hour with it

Yeah it's pretty good and I found it very easy to get up to speed with it. The support team are quite responsive on their forum as well. Plus they're in Ukraine, so money their way is good too.
 
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #113 on: May 17, 2022, 10:18:49 pm »
Diptrace gets my vote after spending an hour with it

Yeah it's pretty good and I found it very easy to get up to speed with it. The support team are quite responsive on their forum as well. Plus they're in Ukraine, so money their way is good too.

hah.  and here I am concerned about the unpredictability of Chinese suppliers..
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #114 on: May 23, 2022, 06:25:33 am »
Need to recommend a PCB design software package to a friend.  The concept of CircuitStudio is sort of in the sweet spot for what they are looking to do.  Shame Altium didn't maintain it.
Altium is still advertising circuitstudio with no mention of "CircuitMaker Pro" on their site.
Docs page still lists last version as "CIRCUITSTUDIO 1.5 Released:  24 May 2018 - Version: 1.5.1 (build 13) ": http://documentation.circuitstudio.com/display/CSTU/New+in+CircuitStudio

Anyone know anything new about this?

Surely he's dead Jim?
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #115 on: May 23, 2022, 08:32:21 am »
Need to recommend a PCB design software package to a friend.  The concept of CircuitStudio is sort of in the sweet spot for what they are looking to do.  Shame Altium didn't maintain it.
Altium is still advertising circuitstudio with no mention of "CircuitMaker Pro" on their site.
Docs page still lists last version as "CIRCUITSTUDIO 1.5 Released:  24 May 2018 - Version: 1.5.1 (build 13) ": http://documentation.circuitstudio.com/display/CSTU/New+in+CircuitStudio

Anyone know anything new about this?

Surely he's dead Jim?

I'm an engineer, not a doctor! :)
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #116 on: May 23, 2022, 12:09:43 pm »
Need to recommend a PCB design software package to a friend.  The concept of CircuitStudio is sort of in the sweet spot for what they are looking to do.  Shame Altium didn't maintain it.
Altium is still advertising circuitstudio with no mention of "CircuitMaker Pro" on their site.
Docs page still lists last version as "CIRCUITSTUDIO 1.5 Released:  24 May 2018 - Version: 1.5.1 (build 13) ": http://documentation.circuitstudio.com/display/CSTU/New+in+CircuitStudio

Anyone know anything new about this?

Surely he's dead Jim?

Perhaps Dave can use connections at Altium to ask WTF is going on with CS.
 

Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #117 on: May 24, 2022, 12:22:56 am »
Some of us know what is going on due to being on the beta, but can't post publicly about it.
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #118 on: May 24, 2022, 08:59:54 am »
I'm so glad I turned down the opportunity of being part of this beta shit-show....which started two years ago was it!?
 
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Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #119 on: May 25, 2022, 12:18:33 pm »
Diptrace does not compare to CS as a pro tool.  But sounds like they are still around.
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #120 on: May 25, 2022, 07:26:38 pm »
I was on the CS/CMPro beta for a couple of years......I came off it a few months ago after I got fed up. I gave Altium a closing report when I left.
I switched to KiCad when V6 came out. I haven't looked back.

Ian.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 07:28:42 pm by IanJ »
Ian Johnston - Original designer of the PDVS2mini || Author of the free WinGPIB app.
Website - www.ianjohnston.com
YT Channel (electronics repairs & projects): www.youtube.com/user/IanScottJohnston, Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/IanSJohnston
 
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Offline bestel

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #121 on: June 17, 2022, 07:12:48 pm »
I was on the CS/CMPro beta for a couple of years......I came off it a few months ago after I got fed up. I gave Altium a closing report when I left.
I switched to KiCad when V6 came out. I haven't looked back.

Ian.

I was looking for an upgrade to gain post-routing signal integrity with Altium/Orcad Pro/eCadStar, but it's *really* expensive.
May I should switch on Kicad/Qucs/LTSpice/... and spend the money on hardware?

Because AFAIK Eagle/AltiumCS/AltiumCM offer nothing more than Kicad?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #122 on: June 17, 2022, 08:58:29 pm »
I was on the CS/CMPro beta for a couple of years......I came off it a few months ago after I got fed up. I gave Altium a closing report when I left.
I switched to KiCad when V6 came out. I haven't looked back.

Ian.

I was looking for an upgrade to gain post-routing signal integrity with Altium/Orcad Pro/eCadStar, but it's *really* expensive.
May I should switch on Kicad/Qucs/LTSpice/... and spend the money on hardware?

Because AFAIK Eagle/AltiumCS/AltiumCM offer nothing more than Kicad?
That depends on how much you need signal integrity simulation. At this moment Kicad doesn't match up to Altium or Orcad for more complex boards (FPGA / SoC) if you value your time / want to work efficiently.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline bestel

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #123 on: June 20, 2022, 07:39:35 am »
Actually, I have no problem applying good practices, but having some simulations will be clearly better (I'm a pro, but I only do 3 board or so per years).

Maybe I should just take some times on my "free time" to help the community to develop this kind of functionnalities...  :-\
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #124 on: July 29, 2022, 02:45:42 pm »
Usability of Kicad GUI is very questionable.

Except a lot of engineers are able to, you know, design complex boards in Kicad. The GUI could be better, it has been a lot worse, but to call it "questionable" means you haven't bothered to spend any time learning how to actually use the software.
”Usability” means “ease of use”, no less, no more. A tool with low usability can still produce top-notch results, because effectiveness is a separate thing from usability.

And yes, like basically every major open-source desktop app, KiCad’s usability is not great. The FOSS model plain and simply does not lend itself towards high usability (because that requires consistency and adherence to rules, which really is antithetical to the FOSS model).

Source: I used to be a usability designer for software and web stuff.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 02:49:46 pm by tooki »
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #125 on: July 29, 2022, 11:16:51 pm »
Some of us know what is going on due to being on the beta, but can't post publicly about it.
Perhaps someone can anonymously fill us in?
 
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Offline DubbieTopic starter

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #126 on: September 14, 2022, 10:34:28 pm »
I'm not going to say anything about the Beta, but I will say this.

I have switched to KiCAD. I did one project in it, using it for the first time in my life. It didn't really take me much longer than it would have in Circuit Studio. I had to google a couple of things, but the resulting board worked out great. I am a big believer in making sure I have an accurate 3D model for every board I make. The 3D model also worked out great. It was just a basic 4 layer simple board, but i have no reason to doubt that bigger more complex jobs could be done with ease.

So I am never looking back from KiCAD.

Make from that what you will!

« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 10:38:20 pm by Dubbie »
 
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #127 on: September 18, 2022, 11:23:59 am »
I bet your NDA will expire before the next version of CircuitStudio is released :o

While CircuitStudio is useable and could have been used for Dubbie's board above, I agree that KiCAD is the future, both for hobbyists and small companies. Altium really dropped the ball with CS, they clearly have no interest in it. Failing to provide even small updates to fix minor things is inexcusable, shame on you Altium. I guess they didn't see a quick return on investment and instead of taking a long term strategic view they just canned it and moved on to milking AD customers (like me) all the more.
 

Offline trevwhite

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2022, 09:44:22 am »
A while back I spoke with tech support regarding something concerning Altium Designer. I mentioned Circuit Studio and tech support firmly distanced themselves from it saying they had no interaction with it. It was not treated as an Altium product the way tech support reacted. They were firmly all about Altium Designer. I believe originally CS was a version of AD that was forked and then adapted to create Circuit Studio. This was before AD code was ported. Maybe that became a big problem? No way to share features properly when CS was based on a old version of AD.

I like Designer but the whole experience of starting with CS and being treated so badly stuck with me. Along with the constant marketting and now changed subscription model, I never really feel like I can trust Altium as a company. Before CS I used EasyPC for years and the business model was totally stable. Every year they release a new version and you pay to upgrade. If you skip a year, no problem you do not have to pay a fortune to bring your version up to date. I started using EasyPC when it was on v5. It is now on v26 and the company has been totally stable in all that time. I know exactly what kind of company I am dealing with.

I have been keeping an eye on Kicad and even if CS came out with a new version I would find it very difficult to now recommend anyone try it just because of how badly the company has treated the community over the years. I have no trust in them really.





 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #129 on: September 27, 2022, 10:41:13 am »
A while back I spoke with tech support regarding something concerning Altium Designer. I mentioned Circuit Studio and tech support firmly distanced themselves from it saying they had no interaction with it. It was not treated as an Altium product the way tech support reacted. They were firmly all about Altium Designer. I believe originally CS was a version of AD that was forked and then adapted to create Circuit Studio. This was before AD code was ported. Maybe that became a big problem? No way to share features properly when CS was based on a old version of AD.

Altium flat out said it was at the time didn't they?
It was not an Altium driven product, but was a result of a request from Element 14 for a PCB package they could sell (and sell exclusively?).
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #130 on: September 27, 2022, 12:03:16 pm »
https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pro

It was rebranded CircuitMaker PRO, based on new binary base of new Altium..
It went into the Beta...

What happened on the way, it's anybody's guess..
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #131 on: September 27, 2022, 04:04:32 pm »
It was rebranded CircuitMaker PRO, based on new binary base of new Altium..
It went into the Beta...

And it changed a LOT!.......
CS was pretty close to being a good product, just needed the bugs taken out of it and the workflow tweaked IMHO.
CMPro rolled the clock back months/years......unfortunately!

At which point I jumped over to KiCad.

Ian.
Ian Johnston - Original designer of the PDVS2mini || Author of the free WinGPIB app.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #132 on: September 27, 2022, 05:16:32 pm »
It was rebranded CircuitMaker PRO, based on new binary base of new Altium..
It went into the Beta...

And it changed a LOT!.......
CS was pretty close to being a good product, just needed the bugs taken out of it and the workflow tweaked IMHO.
CMPro rolled the clock back months/years......unfortunately!

At which point I jumped over to KiCad.

Ian.

I gave up much sooner than you....
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #133 on: September 27, 2022, 05:24:12 pm »
It was not an Altium driven product, but was a result of a request from Element 14 for a PCB package they could sell (and sell exclusively?).

It was clear that Farnell lost interest some years ago when they made the one-and-only E14 tech support guy redundent - and he was genuinely helpful. They felt they weren't making money on it, and any developments payments to Altium for CS were sunk. But Altium had a choice here; they had the option of stepping up to help _their_ end users by doing minimal bugs fixes and adding a feature (find similar objects) to make CS a competetive mid-range ECAD solution. Instead they seem to have plouged effort into the failed CS Pro and produced no updates for CS, not even a yearly bug fix to give people hope. Crazy because with a few simple changes CS could have been quite good.

CS was pretty close to being a good product, just needed the bugs taken out of it and the workflow tweaked IMHO.
Yup, although workflow was OK IMO (it's the Altium workflow).
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #134 on: September 28, 2022, 08:53:59 pm »
Maybe they figured the CS was good enough and cheap enough to take sales away from AD.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #135 on: September 28, 2022, 09:03:57 pm »
, just needed the bugs taken out of it

Not a strong part of Altium support  >:D
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #136 on: September 29, 2022, 02:55:33 am »
Maybe they figured the CS was good enough and cheap enough to take sales away from AD.

I don't know why they still advertise it on the website in the main product drop down?
I've got a lifetime license to 1.5.2 and it hasn't changed or been updated since I installed it several years ago.

 

Offline tooki

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #137 on: September 29, 2022, 06:22:49 am »
FFS, I wish they’d just give non-commercial users a free or very cheap license to the full Altium, at most  disabling some of the most advanced features. It’s not like it’d lose them a cent of revenue, given that hobbyists aren’t going to shell out for a license either way. But making it unapproachable means they defect to KiCad instead. And if they then go commercial, they’ll keep using that…
 

Offline JohanH

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #138 on: September 29, 2022, 07:30:09 am »
A bit unrelated (as I don't know Circuit Studio), but I'm convinced the final solution for any software that isn't niche, is open sourcing. At my $day_job, our own (proprietary) software is very long-lived and it isn't unheard of that we patch a twenty year old product that is basically dead and buried, but some customer is still using and asks for a solution for a particular issue. Now there was a third party software component that we were dependent on for building our software. After about ten years the company owning the particular piece of software was acquired by a bigger company, then this software product sold off to another, even bigger competitor and quickly closed down. So they bought it to kill the competitor. Now what to do with all our software? We began porting this part to existing open source software that many big vendors use (even Microsoft). Now we use this open source component and have mostly gotten rid of the dead software piece.

That said, personally as a hobbyist I use KiCad and nothing else. I've lived through the history of open source and all the biggest companies in the world (Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, you name it) are now using and developing open source software and pouring $M into it. Niche software are still proprietary, but open source is the solution for preserving human knowledge. Otherwise we just end up with dead branches of software, with decades worth of development just wasted. And all have to be repeated again by a new company. Think about all the human mind processing that has gone into creating these fantastic pieces of software and just thrown away, because some company got bought, or got bankrupt. If companies have any decency at all, if they can't sell their software, please open source it instead of letting it rot in some corner.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #139 on: September 29, 2022, 08:51:52 am »
Quote
all the biggest companies in the world (Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, you name it) are now using and developing open source software and pouring $M into it.

With no ulterior motive? I don't think they are doing it for kindness.

Quote
but open source is the solution for preserving human knowledge. Otherwise we just end up with dead branches of software, with decades worth of development just wasted.

That's the end-user view, sure. But for the producer, what do they care about preservation or whether it will still be around in 20 years (unless it's their pension)? So long as it sells now they would be fine with it, and if they can monetise it some more in a few years, all the better. Open source isn't likely to give them that.

It's a noble game, but you have to face facts that open source costs someone in some way. Either it's a sideline from their day job or it's a loss-leader for some other payment scheme. There are a few OS products I follow and I notice that they start off purely free everything with grand aims, then they get more 'professional' with (mostly) a better product, and then they hive off features to paid 'VIP' punters, and if they're lucky they get bought out by a company that kind of mostly keeps the 'community' version, often grudgingly. Except when they get forked and split the user base, then each fork either goes this way or stagnates.

In general - there are some exceptions ;)

Microsoft uses open source to wash their reputation a bit cleaner, and also because they want (need) eyeballs. WSL isn't there because they suddenly became Linux and OS fanatics but to reduce the stampede away from W10. And try not to have people remember they think Linux is a virus. Google Amazon took over FreeRTOS because they wanted the developers to use their IoT scheme (from which they can increase the amount of data they suck). Etc.

[edit: brain fade - Amazon grabbed FreeRTOS. Not that Google are much different, of course.]
« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 09:25:26 am by dunkemhigh »
 

Offline JohanH

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #140 on: September 29, 2022, 12:24:31 pm »

With no ulterior motive? I don't think they are doing it for kindness.

Of course not, who said that? It's all the infrastructure that benefits, cloud servers etc. Practically everything runs Linux, containers and various software stacks that are open source. It's not free, you still have to maintain, patch and develop. But the enormous mass of building blocks is there and it's cost saving.

 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #141 on: September 29, 2022, 04:44:20 pm »
Quote
It's all the infrastructure that benefits, cloud servers etc

Quite. They get people with OS ideals in their eyes to pay the businesses costs. What's not to like!
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #142 on: October 02, 2022, 11:48:34 am »
FFS, I wish they’d just give non-commercial users a free or very cheap license to the full Altium, at most  disabling some of the most advanced features. It’s not like it’d lose them a cent of revenue, given that hobbyists aren’t going to shell out for a license either way. But making it unapproachable means they defect to KiCad instead. And if they then go commercial, they’ll keep using that…

Either that or just make Circuit Studio free and put a few programmers on it. Heck, having worked there I can say that one programmer would be enough.
Such an idea sounds stupid to many, but Altium is practically built on stupid ideas. I was there when they slashed the price of Altium Designer by 80%, and when they made the PCB module optional extra.

I've heard that Circuit Maker has a lot of users, but I strangely don't know any of them nor hear anything about it, might as well be dead as far as industry/hobby talk goes. Same with the other web based solutions.
The chatter is now 95% KiCad, with a smattering of DIPtrace and Eagle.

It would not be silly for Altium to become a one produict company, Altium Designers, just with different user tiers. But that doesn't look good on the yearly shareholder report, you can't have pretty pyramid product charts.
 
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Offline 2x2l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #143 on: December 29, 2022, 09:33:19 am »
I was on the CS/CMPro beta for a couple of years......I came off it a few months ago after I got fed up. I gave Altium a closing report when I left.
I switched to KiCad when V6 came out. I haven't looked back.

Ian.

I was looking for an upgrade to gain post-routing signal integrity with Altium/Orcad Pro/eCadStar, but it's *really* expensive.
May I should switch on Kicad/Qucs/LTSpice/... and spend the money on hardware?

Because AFAIK Eagle/AltiumCS/AltiumCM offer nothing more than Kicad?

Spend the money on HW, as in rather than get SI simulation software, you'll just layout the board with TPs,have an assembly house do a one-off run, then use actual probing hardware to capture eye-diagrams and envelopes?

I'm not sure what specifically you're looking at re: PCB SI (LVDS? CLK distribution? S21?) or if you want other features (PDN?) but imo it's really Cadence (Orcad) is basically king of the mountain. It'll work with ANSYS HFSS and their whole EM suite. Or like, basically every other sim software out there, despite having their own Sigrity software (vendors would go out of their way to lock you into their physics package if they, themselves, were selling one).

License seats are expensive, and you're using an ancient TK-based scripting language code base, but you'll be able to call in and get an English speaking rep who will walk you through what you need, and won't cockblock your access to an actual developer. Within 40 hours (which is not much time at all, if you're moving to an entire new package and sim-platform) you'll be up and running. Also, they're pretty flexible with bundling (say, discounts if you want to have a Sigrity license tossed in). Hell, I haven't talked to sales in a long time, but you could just flat out say something like -- listen, I need __ __ and __, can you just set up a VM on Amazon with a 14 day seat so I can see if it fits my needs?

Also, back on topic, CS was so great and ugh. Eagle 7 was great too but I refuse to buy anything that involves recurring subscriptions. I give you money, you give me some bytes that I copy onto my hard disk and I use until you develop features I find merit paying you more money for. Transaction completed. I don't want to have to have a "cloud account" or whatever in order to load your software. I don't want to risk some hidden legalese in the EULA allowing for  "security updates" which are "required" and bundled with them obligatory auto-updates (a la Chrome/Firefox on load), which will effectively take control of the full binary. If I can't take a HDD snapshot of my install, make a VMware* image out of a fully-offline compatible piece of software I've licensed, you're eliminating my ability to future-proof/revise old designs.

Finally, if you know specifically what you're looking at, there are physics packages like FreeFEM which will get you 90% of the way there. Again, since I don't know the details of your problem I can't point you to any specific module. There's a good chance you don't know what your problem is to begin with (I mean, cmon, EEs ideally should think of everything at the PDE/Maxwells eq level, but if you're like me, you don't- so you don't know which one of the 50 modules to pick which will ultimately solve, given the proper initial/boundary conditions, your issue--which is why I suspect ANSYS can get away with charging what they do (solving PDEs that can be represented in 4 lines of scipy). I digress.

My issue with all of these packages are they're just like a gas. As computational/rendering resources get cheaper ("the room gets bigger"), the overhead of these packages get larger (the engineers care less of performance optimizations, "hey what's 10k cycles versus 2k cycles when we have Intel I9s" so the 'gas spreads out'). KiCad and Altium both have this problem- try the following. Layout a Zync + memories + a PDN and some trivial peripherals like HDMI out. The only other constraints are you gotta keep full DRC compliance according to the Zync sheet-- so length-match all those traces, ensure your termination resistors are all there. See how fucking slow Altium is compared to Cadence. KiCad just crashes when I try to move a memory bank's /16 or whatever on top of a pre-existing component. Cadence is worth it just for the data-sheet OCR import library tool and the 'maintain a consistent length by serpentine routing' tool (though maybe Altium has that? Not sure, haven't used it in ages)

*VMware price-gouges almost at the Oracle level for their enterprise software, but VMWare Workstation Pro since v9 has done what I have paid for it to do without any of that license fuckery. They've built up sufficient credibility IMO that I don't worry about that shit
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #144 on: December 29, 2022, 11:09:00 am »
Hi all,

My timeline says it all....

Pre 2016 = Long time Eagle user.
July 2016 = Got the first version of CS, the free trial (eventually bought a license).
Sept. 2016 = Signed the NDA to join the CS BETA group.
Sept. 2020 = Migrated to the CMPro BETA group.
Jan. 2022 = Left the CMPro BETA group.
Jan. 2022 = Installed V6 KiCad.

If they gave me a free lifetime license and upgrades for Alltium Designer I'd say no thanks!

Ian.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 01:39:47 pm by IanJ »
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Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #145 on: December 31, 2022, 02:24:59 pm »
Best news ever this morning.  James Harriman from Altium posted on the newark/element14/farnell CS forum that as of Jan 1, 2023, these guys are gone.  Thank God.  Newark is still ok IF they have a part in stock but are useless for any problems that arise.  Certainly NOT set up to sell and support software packages.

There are links directly to the Altium site now as well as to the Altium forums.

Hopefully other good things happen along with this !

As to why CS doesn't have a better standing?  You can thank the Newark connection for that.  Their CS forum is 99.99% orphaned but thanks to CS users, many are helped with their problems.  This boost directly from Altium is the best thing that could happen.

Remaining question ... is there a Santa?
 
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Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #146 on: December 31, 2022, 06:34:03 pm »
The last thing to go is hope. Altium have had enough good will.
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #147 on: January 01, 2023, 06:56:12 am »
I was on the CS/CMPro beta for a couple of years......I came off it a few months ago after I got fed up. I gave Altium a closing report when I left.
I switched to KiCad when V6 came out. I haven't looked back.

Ian.

I was looking for an upgrade to gain post-routing signal integrity with Altium/Orcad Pro/eCadStar, but it's *really* expensive.
May I should switch on Kicad/Qucs/LTSpice/... and spend the money on hardware?

Because AFAIK Eagle/AltiumCS/AltiumCM offer nothing more than Kicad?

Spend the money on HW, as in rather than get SI simulation software, you'll just layout the board with TPs,have an assembly house do a one-off run, then use actual probing hardware to capture eye-diagrams and envelopes?
Not a good idea indeed. First of all you won't be able to actually measure all signals. Try to get a 1600MHz DDR4 bus into an oscilloscope properly without disturbing the bus itself. The scope alone will cost more than Orcad which has impedance / crosstalk simulation included. The second problem is that you'll need to do an expensive board respin to fix the problems and pray you didn't introduce new problems.

I'm using Orcad for doing high speed designs and the impedance / crosstalk simulation saves a lot of time.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 07:01:27 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline 2x2l

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #148 on: January 08, 2023, 07:29:31 am »
Not a good idea indeed. First of all you won't be able to actually measure all signals. Try to get a 1600MHz DDR4 bus into an oscilloscope properly without disturbing the bus itself. The scope alone will cost more than Orcad which has impedance / crosstalk simulation included. The second problem is that you'll need to do an expensive board respin to fix the problems and pray you didn't introduce new problems.

I'm using Orcad for doing high speed designs and the impedance / crosstalk simulation saves a lot of time.
Sorry, I was rambling on in that other post - you and I are in agreement I think. My ultimate point was "Cadence is worth it just for the data-sheet OCR import library tool and the 'maintain a consistent length by serpentine routing' tool".. Altium should just buy the good will of the people and throw CS up on Github- its a sunk cost anyways and it won't eat into Designer

The OrCAD simtool will generate data basically on par with going the PBRS/BERT route.(generating a PBRS from the scope itself, into an SMA port, reading out the signal via a LVDS* probe or an SMA-out. You'll then have to use an aux BERT comms tester and pay like 1k to "unlock that feature[/b]" on your scope. ANSYS (in my limited experience..I'm clearly not an EM pro sadly) will give you better models (like...more than just an eye-diagram and seeing what some pre-emphasis will do).

If you want to test actual data, bit for bit yeah you're definitely right..but, again, if you have to hit those SI numbers, your product's development costs should be able to afford that kind of kit (NRE costs recovered by volume, or the customer project is specific enough to demand that kind of performance that you can pass the buck onto them). At the EMI EMC compliance (not sim, live testing Bill O'Reilly style), you're going to have to actually separately test with an h-probe in the anecholic chamber. The SIM sotware will get you there for most digital stuff but if you hit any sort of wall and have no EM expert on your team, just pay a consult to come in and identify what's causing the problems.

Eithe rway, we're pretty much on Cadence being far superior to Altium or KiCad for this kinda junk. Off topic but does anyone have any experience with HyperLynx or other EDAs, especially with regards to mixed-signal work. Also, other than ADS what do people use to design AFEs for active probes? Like GaAs or SiGe process type stuff. I'm almost certainly never going to do anything along the lines of that work, but reading a few app notes would be fun


* Looks like Tek has a nice probe which is real-time in the 8k range, that's around one puff. The Lecroy WavePro were super expensive in the early 2000s which had real good dynamic range of +/- 8v (not that important for what we're talking about), with only 0.7 pf of loading (much more important)
 

Offline satoshi

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #149 on: January 17, 2023, 01:13:11 pm »
I am still unclear whether I should get Circuit Studio. It is selling at Newark for $495. (version 1.5 I think)
I have several years experience with Protel and Altium.
Or should I go with Diptrace?

Do it, 495$ is literally nothing for a software nowadays. I've done amassing designs with it. You can also always have the door open to the full Altium if you start making more money.
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #150 on: January 19, 2023, 08:49:31 am »
I am still unclear whether I should get Circuit Studio. It is selling at Newark for $495. (version 1.5 I think)
I have several years experience with Protel and Altium.
Or should I go with Diptrace?

Do it, 495$ is literally nothing for a software nowadays. I've done amassing designs with it. You can also always have the door open to the full Altium if you start making more money.

I am not sure why you're replying to this question more than two years later.
Circuit Studio was promising. Now it is dead. Meanwhile, Kicad features and usability skyrocketed. There's no reason to burn money on this junk.

Offline tooki

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #151 on: January 19, 2023, 09:42:50 am »
KiCad still has a long way to go. At least coming from Altium, so many really basic things are missing, never mind the gazillion little things that make everyday use much easier.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #152 on: January 19, 2023, 10:11:40 am »
I am not sure why you're replying to this question more than two years later.
Circuit Studio was promising. Now it is dead. Meanwhile, Kicad features and usability skyrocketed. There's no reason to burn money on this junk.

Last I checked the Circuit Studio version they gave me way back is stil the latest version, it hasn't been touched in years. He's dead Jim.
 
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Offline Warhawk

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #153 on: January 19, 2023, 01:20:51 pm »
KiCad still has a long way to go. At least coming from Altium, so many really basic things are missing, never mind the gazillion little things that make everyday use much easier.
I too use Altium Designer (professionally). However, this thread is for Circuit Studio. I was considering buying it too. However, people reported also piles of tiny bugs and inconveniences. Now, when they stopped working on it, it is even unsure if the software runs in newer versions/releases of windows.
So, for 495USD I say, no.
:)

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #154 on: January 20, 2023, 12:02:31 am »
The current release version is 1.5.2 and that was released in 2018 IIRC
There is a v2 beta that's supposedly been around for years, but I don't have access to a forum link for it any more, it just doesn't work. I have access to the Altium Design beta program forum, but maybe Circuit Studio is different.
https://my.altium.com/circuitstudio/video/circuitstudio-20-overview

In any case the Circuit Studio name is dead and it's supposed to be Circuit Maker Pro, but it's never been released and that Sept 2020, so 2 1/2 years and nothing.
No one should buy Circuti Studio, it's been officially marked as dead.

https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pro
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 12:08:19 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Warhawk

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #155 on: January 20, 2023, 09:11:43 am »
The current release version is 1.5.2 and that was released in 2018 IIRC
There is a v2 beta that's supposedly been around for years, but I don't have access to a forum link for it any more, it just doesn't work. I have access to the Altium Design beta program forum, but maybe Circuit Studio is different.
https://my.altium.com/circuitstudio/video/circuitstudio-20-overview

In any case the Circuit Studio name is dead and it's supposed to be Circuit Maker Pro, but it's never been released and that Sept 2020, so 2 1/2 years and nothing.
No one should buy Circuti Studio, it's been officially marked as dead.

https://resources.altium.com/p/coming-soon-altium-circuitmaker-pro

Thanks for the summary and sharing.

Offline echo_mountain

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #156 on: February 17, 2023, 07:00:28 am »
No one should buy Circuti Studio, it's been officially marked as dead.

I'm aware of the painfully long, drawn out beta history, etc., but where has CircuitStudio/CircuitMaker Pro been marked officially dead?  I would take "officially" in this case to mean this has been stated by Altium themselves, and I've not seen that, so I'd appreciate a link in case I've missed something!

There was movement recently in the December '22 timeframe in which Altium publicly severed ties with Newark/element14 and stated that all support for CircuitStudio would now be through Altium directly.  It seems possible that the delays might at least be partially attributed to something going wrong with that partnership with Newark (a "failed experiment," perhaps).

As someone who has used Altium Designer in his day job for 11+ years, I still rely on CircuitStudio regularly for personal side projects and despite some quirks, I still find it FAR less quirky than KiCad (yes, I know this is subjective).  As such, I'm continuing to use CircuitStudio until 1) that miraculous day when/if Altium releases the next version of it, or 2) KiCad comes along a bit further in terms of its UI and a few fundamental things.  It's made tremendous strides in the most recent v6.x, and I like what I'm seeing from the 6.99 betas for the v7.0 release.  At the very least, it looks like it won't be limited any longer to that absolutely hideous, disgusting font used in eeschema documents, which is almost enough of a reason on its own to keep me away from the app entirely... call me shallow.  :palm:
 

Offline echo_mountain

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #157 on: February 17, 2023, 07:07:02 am »
Now, when they stopped working on it, it is even unsure if the software runs in newer versions/releases of windows.

Works great on Windows 11 for me, and I've never had it crash on me once (knock on wood).  It's crashed fewer times than the full Altium Designer has for me in the past few years.
I've even run it on Parallels Desktop with Windows 11 for ARM64 on an M1 Max Mac Studio, and again, no issues whatsoever.

YMMV...
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #158 on: February 17, 2023, 07:17:16 am »
You have exactly 2 posts.
CircuitMaker Pro is officially dead because in more than 2 years it was not relased. So you cannot have one...
 

Offline echo_mountain

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #159 on: February 17, 2023, 07:41:25 am »
You have exactly 2 posts.
CircuitMaker Pro is officially dead because in more than 2 years it was not relased. So you cannot have one...

Yes, long time lurker here and have benefitted greatly from the forum over time (including many of your posts, I believe, so thank you!).  Finally decided to dive in and join the discussion... again, I just wanted to confirm what "officially" meant in this context, because I haven't seen anything from the mouths of Altium that they have abandoned the project.

But yeah, a two+ year teaser with no product release is not a good look on their part, I certainly have no argument with that!
 
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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #160 on: February 17, 2023, 08:05:10 am »
You have exactly 2 posts.
CircuitMaker Pro is officially dead because in more than 2 years it was not relased. So you cannot have one...

Yes, long time lurker here and have benefitted greatly from the forum over time (including many of your posts, I believe, so thank you!).  Finally decided to dive in and join the discussion... again, I just wanted to confirm what "officially" meant in this context, because I haven't seen anything from the mouths of Altium that they have abandoned the project.

It's "defacto dead"!
 
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Offline echo_mountain

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #161 on: February 17, 2023, 08:26:53 am »
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2023, 08:37:30 am »
You have exactly 2 posts.
CircuitMaker Pro is officially dead because in more than 2 years it was not relased. So you cannot have one...

Yes, long time lurker here and have benefitted greatly from the forum over time (including many of your posts, I believe, so thank you!).  Finally decided to dive in and join the discussion... again, I just wanted to confirm what "officially" meant in this context, because I haven't seen anything from the mouths of Altium that they have abandoned the project.

It's "defacto dead"!

Or shall we say a stillborn...?
 

Offline echo_mountain

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #163 on: February 17, 2023, 09:11:10 am »
My mention of KiCad 7.0 a few posts ago made me curious about when it was going to be released... so I go do a Google Search... turns out it was released 4 days ago!

Going to check out what's new...
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #164 on: February 17, 2023, 10:04:27 am »
My mention of KiCad 7.0 a few posts ago made me curious about when it was going to be released... so I go do a Google Search... turns out it was released 4 days ago!

Going to check out what's new...

There is a quite long "Post V6" thread on the KiCad forum. And during the last year it has gathered over 80 posts about new features
https://forum.kicad.info/t/post-v6-new-features-and-development-news/32633
 
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Offline beenosam

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #165 on: March 16, 2023, 06:24:44 am »
It makes me wonder what kind of internal changes have happened in Altium to stall or cancel this completely.
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #166 on: March 16, 2023, 09:40:00 am »
It makes me wonder what kind of internal changes have happened in Altium to stall or cancel this completely.

Someone probably did the maths and determined it was more profitable to drop CS, and increase AD prices even taking into account some customer loss.
Or realised that KiCAD is eating the lunch of a lot EDA tools in the price range, including CS, so why bother competing with free? Just increase AD prices to get some more revenue.
Oh yeah, and increase AD prices a bit more. Because why not?

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #167 on: March 16, 2023, 10:14:17 am »
but isn't CS supposed to be the professional choice for those who want good package with cheaper price?

kicad is certainly very nice and is getting better and better.

how much does AD cost nowadays? i found online it is about 4000-5000$ one time purchase. certainly not worth it for many many people out there... but for CS of about < 500$ kinda makes sense to some. especially that eagle is not in the scene as it were.

for me, kicad for life!


Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #168 on: March 16, 2023, 11:18:04 am »

how much does AD cost nowadays? i found online it is about 4000-5000$ one time purchase.

What's the link?

Offline PlainName

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #169 on: March 16, 2023, 11:21:33 am »
Quote
so why bother competing with free?

Because it can be better than the free one. A good recent example is with the Kicad upgrades - once you've opened your designs or libraries with the new version the previous version can't touch them. OK for single devs perhaps, but if you're sharing with several people it can be problematic - just one person upgrades and then stuffs all the others. Altium (and presumably CS) in contrast doesn't suffer that. The 09 will happily open 23 files and tell you what it can't figure out that's new. That can be worth paying for.

And there is loyalty lock-in. Get someone used to the Altium environment and the free stuff will seem weird enough that it's not worth changing. Eventually, when they need to do big work, their choice will be pukka Altium. But you have to make the cheap version affordable, which might even mean free.

It does seem, though, that they are going for big customers where the price per seat isn't really noticeable amongst the millions, or even billions, passing through the books. IOW, the same market Cadence is filling. Perhaps they've figured they can't compete with Kicad and have jumped ship for what would be the luxury niche if this were cars or clothing.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #170 on: March 16, 2023, 12:12:37 pm »

how much does AD cost nowadays? i found online it is about 4000-5000$ one time purchase.

What's the link?

https://www.g2.com/products/altium-altium-designer/pricing

and in google first result from altium website.

these pages might not be accurate or up to date fore sure.


edit:

go here https://www.altium.com/altium-designer/licensing#s-licensing-step

and the price starts from 11970$.

Offline Muessigb

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #171 on: March 17, 2023, 09:45:32 pm »
It's quite unfortunate that they seem to have abandoned it entirely now and don't communicate on the future of Circuit Maker Pro.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #172 on: April 13, 2023, 10:07:05 pm »
It makes me wonder what kind of internal changes have happened in Altium to stall or cancel this completely.

It seems at least some of the people that were working on it are from Ukraine...
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #173 on: April 13, 2023, 10:12:26 pm »
It makes me wonder what kind of internal changes have happened in Altium to stall or cancel this completely.

It seems at least some of the people that were working on it are from Ukraine...

They were recruiting in Serbia last week.
What amuses me is Altium sponsoring an increasing number of content creators who are aiming at hobbyists. "Get your free two week trial of Altium Designer!". The last people who are going to drop ~AU$600 a month on an EDA tool.
 
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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #174 on: April 14, 2023, 10:30:16 am »
What amuses me is Altium sponsoring an increasing number of content creators who are aiming at hobbyists. "Get your free two week trial of Altium Designer!". The last people who are going to drop ~AU$600 a month on an EDA tool.

Yeah, that's nuts  :-//
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #175 on: April 14, 2023, 10:32:17 am »
It seems at least some of the people that were working on it are from Ukraine...

One of the original PCB team was from the Ukraine and he recruited a whole bunch of top notch programmers over there and they had a dedicated team over there. That was 10 years ago though...
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #176 on: April 14, 2023, 10:35:18 am »
Because it can be better than the free one. A good recent example is with the Kicad upgrades - once you've opened your designs or libraries with the new version the previous version can't touch them. OK for single devs perhaps, but if you're sharing with several people it can be problematic - just one person upgrades and then stuffs all the others. Altium (and presumably CS) in contrast doesn't suffer that. The 09 will happily open 23 files and tell you what it can't figure out that's new. That can be worth paying for.

Backward and Forward file compatibility has always been a huge feature of Altium Designer.
Internally we used to use the bug ridden daily builds, and never once did we lose a file because of even broken versions of the software. Quite amazing actually.
 
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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #177 on: April 14, 2023, 10:37:52 am »
how much does AD cost nowadays? i found online it is about 4000-5000$ one time purchase. certainly not worth it for many many people out there... but for CS of about < 500$ kinda makes sense to some. especially that eagle is not in the scene as it were.

In Australia there are only two options now. AU$475/month, or $15,895 for lifetime perpetual.
 
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Offline negativ3

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #178 on: May 19, 2023, 07:40:46 pm »
Just got an offer "as one of the valued CircuitStudio customers" for an upgrade to AD for USD $1,485/year..

That might seem okay to the seller wanting profit, but its waaay above the price this hobbyist can pay.

$495 plus yearly subs at $150 seemed like a sweet spot for good but basic schematic and PCB software without all the bells & whistles.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #179 on: May 19, 2023, 11:07:15 pm »
Just got an offer "as one of the valued CircuitStudio customers" for an upgrade to AD for USD $1,485/year..

That might seem okay to the seller wanting profit, but its waaay above the price this hobbyist can pay.

$495 plus yearly subs at $150 seemed like a sweet spot for good but basic schematic and PCB software without all the bells & whistles.

well, I highly recommend kicad for you. right now it has gotten really good, doubt there is something important needed and does not exist with it.

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #180 on: May 20, 2023, 05:54:47 am »
Just got an offer "as one of the valued CircuitStudio customers" for an upgrade to AD for USD $1,485/year..

I bet that's only $1485 for the firts year, after that (when you can't do without the tool now) you pay the same price as everyone else.
Ask them if they'll agree to a contract in writing that that price won't change for X years. Bet they won't.
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #181 on: May 20, 2023, 05:56:05 am »
how much does AD cost nowadays? i found online it is about 4000-5000$ one time purchase. certainly not worth it for many many people out there... but for CS of about < 500$ kinda makes sense to some. especially that eagle is not in the scene as it were.

In Australia there are only two options now. AU$475/month, or $15,895 for lifetime perpetual.

I updated this in another thread, but there is now a third option:
https://www.altium.com/altium-designer/licensing/individual
AUD 2,625/year for small businesses.
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #182 on: May 20, 2023, 09:49:35 am »
I updated this in another thread, but there is now a third option:
https://www.altium.com/altium-designer/licensing/individual
AUD 2,625/year for small businesses.

That is an option, if you're insane.
Altium's pricing strategy is based on a random number generator. I have no trust that they will operate in good faith going forward. Those yearly subs will increase way beyond inflation.

I'm off subscription now thanks to the latest crazy renewal pricing. I plan on running my '22 perpetual for at least the next decade. Or until the next Altium panic sale, like they did during covid.
 
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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #183 on: May 20, 2023, 12:07:55 pm »
I'm off subscription now thanks to the latest crazy renewal pricing. I plan on running my '22 perpetual for at least the next decade. Or until the next Altium panic sale, like they did during covid.

When I worked there in 2010 sales were always complaining that customers were still using Protel 99SE from a decade before, and they had a hard time getting them to pay for an upgrade.
I'm sure that still exists a lot today.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #184 on: May 24, 2023, 03:13:57 pm »
I keep getting these ridiculous (to me) offers too. And offers about training courses, seminars and what not.
A few weeks ago I responded to such an offer saying that as an hobbyist the only Altium product I'm interested in is Circuit Studio and asked for an honest answer about the state of its development. If one such answer could not be provided they no longer needed to offer me anything.

Needless to say no such answer has been provided but more "offers" have been coming.
 

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #185 on: May 29, 2023, 09:17:46 am »
Just got an offer "as one of the valued CircuitStudio customers" for an upgrade to AD for USD $1,485/year..

I bet that's only $1485 for the firts year, after that (when you can't do without the tool now) you pay the same price as everyone else.
Ask them if they'll agree to a contract in writing that that price won't change for X years. Bet they won't.

It is the first year only, they are desperate. I had a serious conversation with them years ago. They were offering cheaper licenses to businesses that had just started up but basically the shafted you with the difference in years to come.

I am totally self taught and have used ECAD in stand alone mode but KiCAD has come to offer all that I want.
 

Offline DarkMode

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2023, 10:49:46 am »
We know how to make sales and I'm not in Sales. I was in general electronics decades ago. There are good products out there and if Altium wanted to be on top, well there is a plethora of feedback from the hobbyists, that would fork out money and would increase their sales 100x fold. The best examples of Hobbyists software vs Commerical software is to limit Pins, kind of like the Target3001 and Drip-Trace models.

With Target3001, I really like its Search feature and the Push-Pull routing (something shared with Proteus at 1/10th the cost).
Dip-Trace is a good program, it falls apart for Component Searching, importing is a pain.
KiCad - best user 4K interface (for free), even Target and DipTrace look clunky next to it.

CircuitStudio at $700 USD it's a little steep for my pockets and is similar to Proteus at this price point.

I might just end up with EasyEDA  |O at this point, as I'm looking to get my ESP32-C3-Mini-1 modules up and running. I found that this component is a good test to see what libraries are up to date. The Target3001 found and imported it Easily, the Dip-Trace found it, but getting it imported wasn't that easy.  :-//
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2023, 04:44:06 pm »
Quote
I found that this component is a good test to see what libraries are up to date.

If you do anything serious (even 'hobby' serious) you'll make your own components, otherwise you won't be able to use that cool thing that no-one's created an importable component for. Availability of downloadable components is the last thing you want to use to choose a package, and the ease of creating your own should be very, very high on the list.
 
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2023, 09:36:33 pm »
Quote
I found that this component is a good test to see what libraries are up to date.

If you do anything serious (even 'hobby' serious) you'll make your own components, otherwise you won't be able to use that cool thing that no-one's created an importable component for. Availability of downloadable components is the last thing you want to use to choose a package, and the ease of creating your own should be very, very high on the list.

I find myself making my own components at least 10-30% of total components. sometimes footprint exists but schematic symbol does not.

kicad is easy in this regard

Offline Kasper

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #189 on: July 06, 2023, 02:17:25 pm »
I'm getting the altium ad on CS homescreen now too.  I think you guys have missed something big here, if we switch to altium, we can do board layout, manufacturing outputs and fabrication drawings! [/sarcasm]

And we get to have phone calls from marketing.  Are they going to call us next year to tell us for the low price of $10k, we can keep altium and they'll even let us do board layout?

What a bunch of goofs.  Old CS is fine but I would have been slightly better off if I stuck with KiCAD.  I went CS to be more employable but none of my employers or clients have cared what I use and I ended up needing to use KiCAD anyways to take over someone else's project.

 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #190 on: August 13, 2023, 04:59:11 pm »
Talk about price gouging, post-Covid pricing and brass balls, I just took a quick look at Altium's coverage of Circuit Studio and ended up in the AD pricing section.

$5495 for one fricking year !

I recall when you could pick it up, as a developer, for around $3000 and maybe a bit less. and that for a permanent license.

I ran Altium for 3 years recently and in that time frame, not once did they ever address a bug that we reported.  We were very conservative in our reporting and fixes were indeed needed but never came. 

For 8 years prior I ran Cadence (Orcad) with database, alongside Allegro.  While we generally had to go through EMA, we did get support.

Altium CircuitMaker Pro will NEVER see the light of day with their pricing of AD.  It would be like showing up selling $2 cups of coffee to workers while you have a $1 million per year food and beverage contract with the company as a whole.

While Kicad is looking pretty good at 7.0, just having spent a week with it, it's no Circuit Studio (view of an AD user).  But Altium pricing has me so angry I don't know if I can go back to their orphaned CS product.

Just semi retired recently but Kicad will be seeing some $$ shortly as a show of support.  I've done mostly 6 to 12 layer boards and have no feel for the joy or pain attempting these with Kicad.  Probably will not be going above DDR4 and that without SI tools.



« Last Edit: August 13, 2023, 05:04:07 pm by EE-digger »
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #191 on: August 13, 2023, 05:10:27 pm »
I've tried repeatedly to convince Altium of the wisdom of offering the entry level product, even if it is a greatly scaled down version of the full AD.  It always feels like they are missing out on budding, future AD users but this may be old fart thinking.  The kids can buy their student versions for either free(??) or cheap.  So they can still get their Altium fix before hitting the real world.

But regardless of several approaches and suggestions from one seasoned in the field (I didn't mention 20 years prior with Pads), I feel that Altium is like my 13 year old Golden Retriever who passed recently.  Stone cold deaf and we never realized it for 6 months.  She responded so well to our hand commands throughout life that we never realized she wasn't hearing until her vet pointed it out.

So in the spirit of "Ginger" our girl, here's my hand signal to Altium.  Actually it's sort of arm and hand and Italian in heritage.  I don't see an emoji for it but will try a few ...  :wtf:  :rant:  :wtf:  :horse:  :horse:
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #192 on: August 14, 2023, 01:49:17 am »
I recently had a long chat with an Altium sales rep explaining why we won't be renewing AD.  Broke down all the reasons, and why CS would be a much better fit for what we do but it's hard to commit to an abandoned product....  Sales rep lady said she understood and that she would pass along my feedback.


Then a about a month later I got a call from another sales rep asking if we were going to renew our AD license.  I asked him to review the notes from my last call and he said.... there were no notes.  HA!  I wondering if the first sales rep was actually physically making the wanking hand motion as she said she was taking notes.

That was mildly frustrating :(
 
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Offline Warhawk

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #193 on: August 14, 2023, 08:45:54 am »
I recently had a long chat with an Altium sales rep explaining why we won't be renewing AD.  Broke down all the reasons, and why CS would be a much better fit for what we do but it's hard to commit to an abandoned product....  Sales rep lady said she understood and that she would pass along my feedback.


Then a about a month later I got a call from another sales rep asking if we were going to renew our AD license.  I asked him o review the notes from my last call and he said.... there were no notes.  HA!  I wondering if the first sales rep was actually physically making the wanking hand motion as she said she was taking notes.

That was mildly frustrating :(

Or maybe the first sales rep quit after finding our that his company is centered around a single product that reached such maturity that there's not much to do about it except fixing bugs :).

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #194 on: August 14, 2023, 09:27:42 am »
I recently had a long chat with an Altium sales rep explaining why we won't be renewing AD.  Broke down all the reasons, and why CS would be a much better fit for what we do but it's hard to commit to an abandoned product....  Sales rep lady said she understood and that she would pass along my feedback.


Then a about a month later I got a call from another sales rep asking if we were going to renew our AD license.  I asked him o review the notes from my last call and he said.... there were no notes.  HA!  I wondering if the first sales rep was actually physically making the wanking hand motion as she said she was taking notes.

That was mildly frustrating :(

Or maybe the first sales rep quit after finding our that his company is centered around a single product that reached such maturity that there's not much to do about it except fixing bugs :).


what I always find bizarre with Altium is that they seem like they don't care about money and further customer base.

Like, CS can get a very big market if it has licenses very versatile like 100$ up to 500$ or so. they could have got lots of customers if they put real work on it.

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #195 on: August 14, 2023, 09:34:11 am »
I recently had a long chat with an Altium sales rep explaining why we won't be renewing AD.  Broke down all the reasons, and why CS would be a much better fit for what we do but it's hard to commit to an abandoned product....  Sales rep lady said she understood and that she would pass along my feedback.


Then a about a month later I got a call from another sales rep asking if we were going to renew our AD license.  I asked him o review the notes from my last call and he said.... there were no notes.  HA!  I wondering if the first sales rep was actually physically making the wanking hand motion as she said she was taking notes.

That was mildly frustrating :(

Or maybe the first sales rep quit after finding our that his company is centered around a single product that reached such maturity that there's not much to do about it except fixing bugs :).


what I always find bizarre with Altium is that they seem like they don't care about money and further customer base.

Like, CS can get a very big market if it has licenses very versatile like 100$ up to 500$ or so. they could have got lots of customers if they put real work on it.

.... and real upgrade paths to AD! 
Even if CS was just a stripped down AD, which you would hope would be easier to support/maintain/build on than a separate product codebase.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #196 on: August 14, 2023, 10:07:51 am »
I recently had a long chat with an Altium sales rep explaining why we won't be renewing AD.  Broke down all the reasons, and why CS would be a much better fit for what we do but it's hard to commit to an abandoned product....  Sales rep lady said she understood and that she would pass along my feedback.


Then a about a month later I got a call from another sales rep asking if we were going to renew our AD license.  I asked him o review the notes from my last call and he said.... there were no notes.  HA!  I wondering if the first sales rep was actually physically making the wanking hand motion as she said she was taking notes.

That was mildly frustrating :(

Or maybe the first sales rep quit after finding our that his company is centered around a single product that reached such maturity that there's not much to do about it except fixing bugs :).


what I always find bizarre with Altium is that they seem like they don't care about money and further customer base.

Like, CS can get a very big market if it has licenses very versatile like 100$ up to 500$ or so. they could have got lots of customers if they put real work on it.

.... and real upgrade paths to AD! 
Even if CS was just a stripped down AD, which you would hope would be easier to support/maintain/build on than a separate product codebase.

I think they should be doing this while they can since KiCAD is making real threatening improvements so that it took and will continue to take thousands of customers in the low to mid end.

But as you all agree, Altium is a weird company which does not fit into any category  :-+ :-+ :-+

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #197 on: August 14, 2023, 12:10:03 pm »
My suggestion to Altium was to offer AD with a limit of two layers at 160 x 100mm (sound familiar?) for US$499 a year. That would have mopped up a lot, a lot of people. Response: crickets.

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #198 on: August 14, 2023, 12:37:26 pm »
My suggestion to Altium was to offer AD with a limit of two layers at 160 x 100mm (sound familiar?) for US$499 a year. That would have mopped up a lot, a lot of people. Response: crickets.

I really hate subscription based... anything! let alone design software!

people need to pay for the software once, then keep using it. maybe offer some updates later on for support like keeping free updates for version 2 until it reaches version 3 and then pay small price and so on.

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #199 on: August 14, 2023, 03:19:36 pm »
people need to pay for the software once, then keep using it. maybe offer some updates later on for support like keeping free updates for version 2 until it reaches version 3 and then pay small price and so on.

An alternative method is to use Open Source software "for free", and then donate to the project, based on your financial situation, and how important the project is to you.  For example a small donation for hobbyists, and a part of revenue if you use it for commercial projects. For example both Aisler and Oshpark are quite big sponsors of the KiCad project.

Donations are a part of what keeps Open Source projects alive, and just showing that you are interested in a project in this way helps motivating developers to keep improving an Open Source project.

From what I gather of Circuit Studio, it is not "dead again", but it has been dead for 5 or more years already.
Many Open Source projects also die or limp along on very small contributions. I am for example interested in libopencm3 but I am hesitant because it also seems to be mostly dead for about 8 years.
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #200 on: August 14, 2023, 03:39:59 pm »
I ran Altium for 3 years recently and in that time frame, not once did they ever address a bug that we reported.  We were very conservative in our reporting and fixes were indeed needed but never came. 

My personal record between reporting an issue for KiCad on Gitlab and a "Fix commited" is 28 minutes. It took me more then that to create a good bug report. For the last two years or so, about 200 new issues are created for KiCad on gitlab, and also about 200 are closed each month, and the total is fairly stable between around 1500 and 2000 open issues. A lot of the new issues get fixed quickly, while some of the older can linger around for many years, but often there are good reasons for that.

Also, for USD 400 you can get a year of commercial support for KiCad via https://www.kipro-pcb.com/#   and if you throw in the price difference of a single-year-altium-subscription, you can get a lot of personal attention to have custom features implemented. But there is a catch, and that is that the feature you want implemented has to fit with the long term goals of the KiCad project itself.

Now imagine if a company which has 20 altium seats decides to do this. That would be enough to put an extra full time developer on the KiCad project.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 03:41:36 pm by Doctorandus_P »
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #201 on: August 14, 2023, 03:41:04 pm »
Quote
An alternative method is to use Open Source software "for free", and then donate to the project

That's fine if the 'free' software does the job required, but cutting off your nose if it doesn't. Would you automatically go for Freecad when you really want Fusion 360, just because it's 'free'?
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #202 on: August 14, 2023, 04:01:39 pm »
I went for FreeCAD years before fusion360 existed. I am also strongly biased towards Open Source and the philosophy behind it. I've seen autodesk abusing their users as beta testers and then cutting them off when the new features start becoming valuable. I would love seeing 5D toolpath generation in FreeCAD, but simply can't afford the autodesk software, and that is separate from my thorough dislike of that company in general.

But I do agree that fusion360 does make sense for a lot of companies, while FreeCAD has not reached version 1 yet. FreeCAD has been run by hackers and has been hampered by lack of resources for many years now. And that also strengthens my point. Lack of resources is a mayor issue for many Open Source projects. FreeCAD is now slowly moving towards methods of gathering more resources to speed up development and it seems to be doing well, but needs a few more years.

And there are a lot of open source projects which have been competitive with closed source projects for many years. For example firefox, apache, many Linux distributions, KiCad, Blender, ansible and thousands of others.

Last time I checked, Blender received around EUR 3M of yearly donations and is an extremely healthy project. There also seem to be quite a lot of people who earn a living with open source software, for example with maintenance, custom development (Blender plugins, scenes, parts like animals and such, etc).

Also note that all of the top 500 super computers are running Linux:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer_operating_system

This is an excellent example for Open Source software. Commercial development would be extremely expensive, because of the limited amount of systems that need an OS for it. At the same time each company running such a computer very likely needs custom modules because these systems are often one-of-a-kind. Collaboration and Open Sourcing the stuff makes a lot of sense in this niche.

But you do have to choose your battles. Open Source is not (yet) a viable alternative for everyone or for each application. It's a complicated and diverse world we're living in.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 04:08:14 pm by Doctorandus_P »
 
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #203 on: August 14, 2023, 05:43:22 pm »
well, let's better keep it about kicad without mentioning other unrelated software.

kicad is making nice performance in pcb design space which is a viable option for many. i am not the suitable person to judge but in my experience kicad really does a lot of stuff which previously were part of paid software... and it is going forward even more.

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #204 on: August 14, 2023, 10:35:55 pm »
My suggestion to Altium was to offer AD with a limit of two layers at 160 x 100mm (sound familiar?) for US$499 a year. That would have mopped up a lot, a lot of people. Response: crickets.

Two layers isn't enough anymore.  Standard spec 4 layer boards are so cheap now it almost doesn't make sense to restrict yourself to 2 layers and have unnecessarily convoluted layouts to try to save money on the board.

Note:  Obviously if you are going to make 10,000 of something then the math looks different.  But if you are making 10,000 of something you probably already have your pro level tools sorted out.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 10:38:36 pm by Smokey »
 
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Offline Kasper

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #205 on: August 15, 2023, 01:47:55 am »
well, let's better keep it about kicad without mentioning other unrelated software.

Yes, let's keep this 'Circuit Studio' thread about kicad.   :-DD
 
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #206 on: August 15, 2023, 05:55:11 am »
well, let's better keep it about kicad without mentioning other unrelated software.

Yes, let's keep this 'Circuit Studio' thread about kicad.   :-DD

well, you got me there  :-+

however, comparing CS to its market competitor is somehow related to this thread... but bringing stuff like freecad or blender is completely unrelated.

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #207 on: August 15, 2023, 09:44:10 am »
however, comparing CS to its market competitor is somehow related to this thread... but bringing stuff like freecad or blender is completely unrelated.

"plainname" started the FreeCAD thing, I only responded to that. But I do agree I went a bit (too) far.
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #208 on: August 16, 2023, 12:59:51 pm »
well, let's better keep it about kicad without mentioning other unrelated software.

Yes, let's keep this 'Circuit Studio' thread about kicad.   :-DD

Kicad is just about the only set of matches that could light a fire under Altium's bottom so in that respect, is relevant.  However, Altium will remain stone deaf until the lost revenue reaches some critical mass. 

But in some ways, Altium is like our government (US).  It may very well hit a critical threshold but then turn around and do something stupid to address the problem.  :palm:

Dave probably knows exactly what to expect from them, having been a live observer.  I haven't kept up with his comments though and it would be professional on his part to not divulge the inner workings.

How about AD Lite?  Perpetual license for $1,000.  Restrict it to a fairly good board size, net and component counts.  These three numbers would have to come from AD user experience though.  It wouldn't make sense for Altium to shoot itself in the foot but there must be a set of numbers where all involved communities can be happy.  :)  :)  :)

I have a meeting at 10am with an Altium "agent".  We'll see what response comes from that but it's likely they never heard of CircuitMaker Pro.   :=\
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 01:04:28 pm by EE-digger »
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #209 on: August 17, 2023, 05:24:11 pm »
Interesting.  Had a nice discussion with "my" sales rep.  I was offered a huge discount for a perpetual AD license.  My comments regarding several paths for a entry level product will be passed along to a high level individual.  I mentioned how impressed I was with Kicad after 9 years with AD and decades before in PCB/CAD.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #210 on: August 17, 2023, 08:14:56 pm »
Interesting.  Had a nice discussion with "my" sales rep.  I was offered a huge discount for a perpetual AD license.  My comments regarding several paths for a entry level product will be passed along to a high level individual.  I mentioned how impressed I was with Kicad after 9 years with AD and decades before in PCB/CAD.

All they offered me was a "huge discount" on a single seat individual subscription license for a year.  You talked to a better person than I did.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #211 on: August 17, 2023, 11:49:32 pm »
This thread is now 3 1/2 years old. Is it safe to call the Circuit Studio patient dead now?  ;D
(I don't mean close the thread BTW)
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #212 on: August 18, 2023, 12:03:13 am »
This thread is now 3 1/2 years old. Is it safe to call the Circuit Studio patient dead now?  ;D
(I don't mean close the thread BTW)

With all the wacky business decisions they make, it it totally out of the question that they could neglect a released product for 3+ years only to then change course and make it a priority again?
 

Offline EE-digger

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #213 on: August 18, 2023, 12:40:19 am »
I would say it's in cryo suspension but it's value as a revenue stream is tiny.  It would only come to life to counter advances by Kicad and others.  IMHO of course.

Part of me says pay for maintenance one more time in case they do something wacky and release it, and the other part of me thinks I'm an idiot.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 12:44:18 am by EE-digger »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #214 on: August 18, 2023, 01:19:26 am »
This thread is now 3 1/2 years old. Is it safe to call the Circuit Studio patient dead now?  ;D
(I don't mean close the thread BTW)
With all the wacky business decisions they make, it it totally out of the question that they could neglect a released product for 3+ years only to then change course and make it a priority again?

Well, when I worked there they actually made the PCB tool optional extra, so anything is possible.
 

Offline H.O

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Re: Circuit Studio Dead? (again!)
« Reply #215 on: August 18, 2023, 06:57:05 am »
I have tried so hard, several times, to give them money for renewed maintenance on my CS license but it has been impossible. I would have gotten nothing for that money so I thank them for that.
 


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