Author Topic: Circuit Studio reboot  (Read 35991 times)

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Online blueskull

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2016, 09:38:10 am »
But it *must* have great import capabilities, push/shove routing, flexible design rules, and easy access to accurate parts libraries.

I'm thinking the opposite. One of the merit of AD/CS/CM is it they are very cohesive tools. I do not know why anyone would like to use an external capturing tool.
Also, if it was made with comprehensive importers, it will make it easier to work with AD or other PCB tools, which will make it a direct competitor to their flagship AD.
 

Online PCB.Wiz

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2016, 08:41:28 pm »
But it *must* have great import capabilities, push/shove routing, flexible design rules, and easy access to accurate parts libraries.

I'm thinking the opposite. One of the merit of AD/CS/CM is it they are very cohesive tools. I do not know why anyone would like to use an external capturing tool.
Great import is not so much about connecting some external tool (tho that certainly should be possible, including script generated files) but more about being able to harvest libraries and designs from other sources.
DXF import is just one example.


Also, if it was made with comprehensive importers, it will make it easier to work with AD or other PCB tools, which will make it a direct competitor to their flagship AD.
Ah yes, certainly Altium will be quite actively crippling and nobbling CS, and may even change those fishhooks over time, if CS proves to be eating too much of AD's lunch.
Altium also have a proven track record of very volatile pricing.
 

Offline dohnalik

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2016, 07:56:13 pm »
If Eagle wont support openGL true GPU acceleration, then its dead for professional use...its literally unusable for big 2 layer or 4+ layer boards with polygons. Circuit studio has that done quite well.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2016, 11:34:44 pm »
Altium also have a proven track record of very volatile pricing.

Only -70% to +400%  :-DD
 

Offline bakermattj

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #79 on: July 19, 2016, 06:44:00 pm »
I fall in the market segment where this tool makes sense, and really want to get off of Eagle for a number of reasons.  AD is not quite in my price range.

Woah, no basic manufacturing DRC in CS?
Quote
Basic manufacturing rules Annular ring, acute angle, hole size, layer pairs, hole to
hole clearance, minimum solder mask sliver, silk to solder
mask, silk to silk, net antennae, silk to board region

Does this not make the tool nearly useless?  I guess if you do not care about functional boards.. Maybe they should call it CircuitArtist instead...  I do not want to hassle with a DRC flow that involves exporting and sending the files for 3rd party DFM, too much of a pain.

The AD import being limited to version 10 is a problem.  You get CS because AD does not make sense, so why require me to have access to a copy of AD?  That leaves no way to import reference designs from suppliers.

I am very interested in this CS at this price but these two issues seem like deal breakers.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2016, 02:56:31 am »
Woah, no basic manufacturing DRC in CS?
Quote
Basic manufacturing rules Annular ring, acute angle, hole size, layer pairs, hole to
hole clearance, minimum solder mask sliver, silk to solder
mask, silk to silk, net antennae, silk to board region

Is this not it?


 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2016, 03:04:30 am »
Is this not it?

I was just quoting their brochure with the feature list comparison. I have not used CS yet.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2016, 02:25:59 pm »
Woah, no basic manufacturing DRC in CS?
Quote
Basic manufacturing rules Annular ring, acute angle, hole size, layer pairs, hole to
hole clearance, minimum solder mask sliver, silk to solder
mask, silk to silk, net antennae, silk to board region

Is this not it?

That's copper to copper clearances. Are there any options elsewhere for annular ring sizes, hole sizes, layer config, hole to hole (centre to centre) clearance, etc?
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2016, 03:29:55 pm »
Woah, no basic manufacturing DRC in CS?
Quote
Basic manufacturing rules Annular ring, acute angle, hole size, layer pairs, hole to
hole clearance, minimum solder mask sliver, silk to solder
mask, silk to silk, net antennae, silk to board region

Is this not it?

That's copper to copper clearances. Are there any options elsewhere for annular ring sizes, hole sizes, layer config, hole to hole (centre to centre) clearance, etc?

Will do screenshots of all options later today and let you decide the content.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2016, 12:14:07 am »
All the Rules and Constraints expanded:
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2016, 12:16:48 am »
Layer Manager.  It looks nearly as full-featured as Designer.

 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2016, 12:17:39 am »
Okay.

Where in there do you specify the minimum distance between drill hits for your PCB manufacturer? The minimal annular ring size, layer pairs for blind and buried vias, minimum diameter of solder mask?
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2016, 01:12:41 am »
Push and shove routing works.  It's an option in the routing menu.

 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2016, 01:13:48 am »
Okay.

Where in there do you specify the minimum distance between drill hits for your PCB manufacturer? The minimal annular ring size, layer pairs for blind and buried vias, minimum diameter of solder mask?

Why don't you just get a free trial and see? 
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2016, 01:20:08 am »
Okay.

Where in there do you specify the minimum distance between drill hits for your PCB manufacturer? The minimal annular ring size, layer pairs for blind and buried vias, minimum diameter of solder mask?

Why don't you just get a free trial and see?

That's presumably a 'nowhere', then.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2016, 01:27:18 am »
Okay.

Where in there do you specify the minimum distance between drill hits for your PCB manufacturer? The minimal annular ring size, layer pairs for blind and buried vias, minimum diameter of solder mask?

Why don't you just get a free trial and see?

That's presumably a 'nowhere', then.

That was, "do your own work for a change and answer your own question."
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2016, 01:28:22 am »
That's quite disappointing - here's a screenshot for the design rules from Circuit Maker:



The free tool looks to be more powerful that the paid for tool.  WTF?!

I really, really like CM, except for the lag induced by cloud based libraries.  But imho it's the best free tool out there.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2016, 01:49:49 am »
E: Ahh, let's leave the handbags for now.

I think the comparison of the two screenshots answers the question nicely. Altium really like shooting themselves in the foot.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 01:54:18 am by Monkeh »
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2016, 01:55:52 am »
E: Ahh, let's leave the handbags for now.

I think the comparison of the two screenshots answers the question nicely. Altium really like shooting themselves in the foot.

I'm in touch with the manager at Element14 who works with Altium.  I will be sure to point this out.  It should be a very, very simple fix to get the rules updated since the engine behind all of this really is AD.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2016, 01:56:56 am »
E: Ahh, let's leave the handbags for now.

I think the comparison of the two screenshots answers the question nicely. Altium really like shooting themselves in the foot.

I'm in touch with the manager at Element14 who works with Altium.  I will be sure to point this out.  It should be a very, very simple fix to get the rules updated since the engine behind all of this really is AD.

That would be good. Basic manufacturing DRC should be a standard feature in any tool.
 

Offline bson

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2016, 06:19:29 pm »
Ooh, did they retain panelization functionality???

I'd check myself, but I'm sitting in a hotel room with a MacBook Air...
 

Offline blackfin76

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #96 on: August 04, 2016, 11:42:52 am »
I hope it is true. Once at a time AD was dropped to $3k, and now it is back to $6k (both without mandatory 1 year subscription).

I remember that day vividly!
Nick Martin called everyone into the canteen at the old Altium building at Frenches Forest as a said (close enough direct quote) "We are burning our bridges, we can't go back to high priced tools"
(They slashed prices by 75%)
Within 12 months the price was creeping back up to normal  ;D
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1311978

It was at the time Altium stock price was very low. (somewhere in 2009). My employer at the time paid about €2500,- for a single license. Last time I informed it was about €7k. Altium stock price has increased a 100 fold since it lowest level, don't now why it's rising so fast. At €7k for AD I think they are missing a large part of the market.
CS at it's discount price seems nice but it lacks too much of the stuff AD has, small businesses need more advanced tools at a lower price. If Altium would bring down the price of AD back to €3k and €500,- for an annual subscription I would no hesitate a second in buying it.

 

Offline jmarkwolf

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #97 on: August 04, 2016, 03:23:08 pm »

Can you save back to AD10 from a AD14+ system ? (or save to the expected P-CAD format ?)
P-CAD (ACCEL_NETLIST looks a nice standard that can open in Eagle and kiCad).
Can CS export P-CAD ?
[/quote]

I currently use Altium ver16 at work and it can save PcbDocs in "native format", and version binary 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, and ascii. It saves SchDocs in "native format" and binary 4.0 and ascii.

So if you have access to Altium in order to resave your databases in the older formats, I think you're golden.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 03:24:57 pm by jmarkwolf »
 

Offline electrolust

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #98 on: September 20, 2016, 10:41:39 am »
I fall in the market segment where this tool makes sense, and really want to get off of Eagle for a number of reasons.  AD is not quite in my price range.

You want to go from Eagle all the way to AD in one step?  Why not take a hop to Proteus?

Actually came here to say thanks for this thread, esp. to LabSpokane.

I like Proteus a lot, big improvement in almost all ways from Eagle.  However the library management and to a degree component creation is a real pain point.  Not as bad as Eagle but still painful in different ways.  I was frustrated enough that I thought I'd give CS a try, even at $3k.  Then I learned about the price drop -- yes!!  Then I read this thread -- no!!  Looks like CS is crippled pretty badly.  Guess I'll continue to live with Proteus.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Circuit Studio reboot
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2016, 02:15:17 pm »
Guess I'll continue to live with Proteus.

There is nothing bad about Proteus. For averagely complex boards it is (in many respects) quicker to get your design done than using Altium. This is because the learning curve is much faster & moving from the schematic to pcb is less problematic.

DipTrace is another good alternative, particularly now they have implemented a search function that searches all libraries with the press of a button.

I use all three of the above packages & like Altium the least.
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 


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