Poll

For the CS users, how do you like CS at this point?

No regrets (coming from Eagle)
12 (36.4%)
No regrets (coming from Kicad)
1 (3%)
No regrets
12 (36.4%)
Works, but lots of problems
3 (9.1%)
Not satisfied (missing stuff, cashes, etc.) [pls. explain in the comment]
5 (15.2%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Author Topic: How you like CS?  (Read 7129 times)

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Offline onesixright

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How you like CS?
« on: March 01, 2017, 10:08:25 am »
Hey Guys,

Maybe more people are on the fence for a CS license. Since CS has a 50% of the price, it might be use-full to see how it stacks up.

CS users, cast your votes!  :-+

Thanks!
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 10:51:24 am »
Maybe more people are on the fence for a CS license. Since CS has a 50% of the price, it might be use-full to see how it stacks up.
For those people that might want to buy CS it would be very handy to add an option to the poll: "I might want to buy CS so want to see the poll score"
instead of them influencing the outcome with a random vote to see the outcome  ;)
 
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Offline onesixright

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 11:21:57 am »
Maybe more people are on the fence for a CS license. Since CS has a 50% of the price, it might be use-full to see how it stacks up.
For those people that might want to buy CS it would be very handy to add an option to the poll: "I might want to buy CS so want to see the poll score"
instead of them influencing the outcome with a random vote to see the outcome  ;)

I did not lock it (for that reason), so you don't need to vote to see the results. Just click view results?
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 11:46:31 am »
I got really exited after the price change and really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, the UI is broken on my system, way beyond unusable: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-on-4k-monitors/msg1148028/#msg1148028.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 11:49:15 am by Zbig »
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 01:23:41 pm »
I got really exited after the price change and really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, the UI is broken on my system, way beyond unusable: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-on-4k-monitors/msg1148028/#msg1148028.

What you are describing has nothing to do with Circuit Studio. You're using a laptop with a non-standard resolution with an operating system known to have difficulty scaling. Search "3200x1800" and you will find scores of users upset about how poorly those systems work with almost all programs.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 01:46:28 pm »
What you are describing has nothing to do with Circuit Studio. You're using a laptop with a non-standard resolution with an operating system known to have difficulty scaling. Search "3200x1800" and you will find scores of users upset about how poorly those systems work with almost all programs.

It has everything to do with Circuit Studio. There is no such thing as "standard resolution" anymore. We're way past the "This site is best viewed in 800 x 600 resolution" years. My OS has no problems scaling any properly designed, DPI-aware application, thank you very much. I don't have to search anything, I'm using this laptop daily for 18 months now. I had problems with Silego GreenPak Designer sotware. They have acknowledged that their application wasn't DPI-aware and fixed this several months ago. What you demonstrate here is the typical change resistance and "everything has to work the way it always used to be" mindset that is the part of the problem.
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 02:06:59 pm »
What you are describing has nothing to do with Circuit Studio. You're using a laptop with a non-standard resolution with an operating system known to have difficulty scaling. Search "3200x1800" and you will find scores of users upset about how poorly those systems work with almost all programs.

It has everything to do with Circuit Studio. There is no such thing as "standard resolution" anymore. We're way past the "This site is best viewed in 800 x 600 resolution" years. My OS has no problems scaling any properly designed, DPI-aware application, thank you very much. I don't have to search anything, I'm using this laptop daily for 18 months now. I had problems with Silego GreenPak Designer sotware. They have acknowledged that their application wasn't DPI-aware and fixed this several months ago. What you demonstrate here is the typical change resistance and "everything has to work the way it always used to be" mindset that is the part of the problem.


LOL, proper universal scaling requires API support like Apple's Retina, which Windows does not offer. This is no secret. 3200x1800 is a kludge of a resolution, not sanctioned by any of the video standards bodies. To accommodate that resolution would require deviating from standard Windows programming techniques. Expecting every publisher to supply a workaround to accommodate a non-standard resolution that will likely disappear soon is not reasonable, scaling is the job of the OS. Adobe, Autodesk, even MS itself all have significant numbers of apps that are problematic at 3200x1800.

Couple that with the fact that 3200x1800 resolution is only found on a 13" (!) screens, and I think your expectation for special case support is unreasonable.

And for what it's worth, Circuit Studio scales perfectly on my 3840x2160 4K 32" monitors.
 

Offline trevwhite

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 02:16:22 pm »

And for what it's worth, Circuit Studio scales perfectly on my 3840x2160 4K 32" monitors.

What graphics card could I get away with to drive a 4K, 32" monitor for CS? Also any recommendation for a monitor?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 02:18:14 pm by trevwhite »
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 02:23:32 pm »

And for what it's worth, Circuit Studio scales perfectly on my 3840x2160 4K 32" monitors.

What graphics card could I get away with to drive a 4K, 32" monitor for CS? Also any recommendation for a monitor?

I'm using a 4 year old Nvidia Titan, but all modern video cards are going to have more than enough horsepower for CS. Just get one with at least 4GB VRAM and you'll be fine. Less video memory than that and you're going to run into slowdowns using 4K multi-monitor.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 02:36:00 pm »
LOL, proper universal scaling requires API support like Apple's Retina, which Windows does not offer.
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askcore/2015/12/08/display-scaling-in-windows-10
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askcore/2016/08/16/display-scaling-changes-for-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/

This is no secret. 3200x1800 is a kludge of a resolution, not sanctioned by any of the video standards bodies. To accommodate that resolution would require deviating from standard Windows programming techniques. Expecting every publisher to supply a workaround to accommodate a non-standard resolution that will likely disappear soon is not reasonable, scaling is the job of the OS. Adobe, Autodesk, even MS itself all have significant numbers of apps that are problematic at 3200x1800.

Couple that with the fact that 3200x1800 resolution is only found on a 13" (!) screens, and I think your expectation for special case support is unreasonable.

And for what it's worth, Circuit Studio scales perfectly on my 3840x2160 4K 32" monitors.

You still don't seem to get it. It's not nineties anymore. You keep talking about "standard resolutions" and "special cases". Modern application development does away with arbitrary pixel counts. Ever heard of "effective pixels" or "density-independet pixels"? You're not supposed to code your app for a set of predefined resolutions anymore - you are supposed to think relative size and density. That's the reality of fast evolving displays, new mobile devices every month, etc. - like it or not. Those developers who refuse to acknowledge that will fail. Do you think Silego solved the problem with their app by painstakingly drawing each and every icon just for my "non-standard" resolution? No, they didn't even know what it was - I haven't told them. They just made the UI dynamically scale properly. Anyway, I'm done, don't want to argue with you any further.
 

Offline EBRAddict

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 04:41:41 pm »
I tried CS over a couple days. At first I was excited by the Altium Vault but as it turns out there really isn't much meat there once you start digging into it. Not being able to clone symbols and footprints is a big disappointment, although I see there is a work-around.

I'm a hobbyist so I'm using a limited set of features.  Converting my libraries over is going to be a chore and I question whether any cost savings is going to be worth my time. Eagle also integrates with Oshpark and that provides some value to me as well.

I do like the UI, being able to see through the layers is a big benefit.

The *biggest* concern I have is seeing the lack of support. Support inquiries to Element 14 are not addressed. I also tried to find the release notes, and beyond some Element 14 staff bragging that CS 2.0 was coming out before the end of 2016, I found nothing. I need to see a reliable history of bug fixes.
 

Offline iainwhite

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 07:03:54 pm »
I tried CS over a couple days. At first I was excited by the Altium Vault but as it turns out there really isn't much meat there once you start digging into it.

That is basically the same conclusion i'm coming to.  I tried to import and work on a simple 555 circuit that I had in Eagle. I imported the schematic into CS OK but a lot of editing is necessary to populate footprints and component sizes.   This was OK for basic SMD resistors and capacitors until i tried to find the pads/silkscreen for a can-type 10uF Aluminum Electro SMD capacitor  - nothing of that type in the Vault. Plus searching the vault is agonizing with the crazy display contain 50 columns all squished together so it is unreadable.

I'm really upset as I would love to use the product and I can see a lot of positives.


Edit:  After working with the trial for a couple weeks, I have managed to get some libraries sorted out e.g. for SMD electrolytics.
         I am starting to like the product more & more, so I decided to purchase a license. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 01:53:26 pm by iainwhite »
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 10:43:32 pm »
LOL, proper universal scaling requires API support like Apple's Retina, which Windows does not offer.
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askcore/2015/12/08/display-scaling-in-windows-10
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askcore/2016/08/16/display-scaling-changes-for-the-windows-10-anniversary-update/

This is no secret. 3200x1800 is a kludge of a resolution, not sanctioned by any of the video standards bodies. To accommodate that resolution would require deviating from standard Windows programming techniques. Expecting every publisher to supply a workaround to accommodate a non-standard resolution that will likely disappear soon is not reasonable, scaling is the job of the OS. Adobe, Autodesk, even MS itself all have significant numbers of apps that are problematic at 3200x1800.

Couple that with the fact that 3200x1800 resolution is only found on a 13" (!) screens, and I think your expectation for special case support is unreasonable.

And for what it's worth, Circuit Studio scales perfectly on my 3840x2160 4K 32" monitors.

You still don't seem to get it. It's not nineties anymore. You keep talking about "standard resolutions" and "special cases". Modern application development does away with arbitrary pixel counts. Ever heard of "effective pixels" or "density-independet pixels"? You're not supposed to code your app for a set of predefined resolutions anymore - you are supposed to think relative size and density. That's the reality of fast evolving displays, new mobile devices every month, etc. - like it or not. Those developers who refuse to acknowledge that will fail. Do you think Silego solved the problem with their app by painstakingly drawing each and every icon just for my "non-standard" resolution? No, they didn't even know what it was - I haven't told them. They just made the UI dynamically scale properly. Anyway, I'm done, don't want to argue with you any further.

YOU don't get it. You're talking about what you'd ideally like to see vs reality of Window's inability to scale properly, because otherwise, Microsoft, Adobe, and Autodesk should all be out of business according to you, each selling CURRENT apps that do not scale properly in every possible resolution.

Anyway, as I posted elsewhere, if you had read the system requirements, you would've notice they support people who want to do EDA work on a 13" screen, with the only caveat that scaling cannot exceed 200%, and not the 225% you are using. If you want perfect scaling across all programs get a Mac, that's the only place you'll find it.
 

Offline sebmadgwick

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 10:58:04 pm »
I would describe myself as a very experienced Eagle user.  I've been using CS for a few weeks now and there is no comparison.  It's like migrating from MS Paint to Photoshop.  Almost everything in Eagle feels like a work-around or an after-thought (it always has).  Working in CS is just a pleasure by comparison.

I've almost finished my first PCB design (attached) and I've used this project to explore as many software features as possible.  I've not just rushed from schematic to Gerbers; I've created detailed custom libraries, comprehensive ERC/DRC, and 3D models.

I've found one or two minor bugs but nothing that would get in the way.  I'm a happy customer :).
 
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Offline trevwhite

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2017, 03:01:04 am »
I do not know how to use it properly but this package is very nice. Step models, supplier links for components. Library management. Output job creation. Interactive routing. So far it feels like a bargain but I still have a way to go before I can finish a board with it.

It's been pretty stable as well with Windows 7 and Windows 10. Sometimes when downloading library from the vault it sticks a bit but not sure how much I will use the vault.


« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 03:03:36 am by trevwhite »
 
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Offline Agent86

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 03:14:57 am »
If you want perfect scaling across all programs get a Mac, that's the only place you'll find it.
OK, Mr Mac fanboy, I get it, LOL, but there's just no way I could buy one of those new Macbook Pros, not at that price point, for that crappy ass list of specs.

And when did they last update the Macs?  Oh wait, let's look:  https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac
Funny, four out of six items are "Don't Buy" and one is "Caution"...
 

Online Someone

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 04:20:47 am »
If you want perfect scaling across all programs get a Mac, that's the only place you'll find it.
OK, Mr Mac fanboy, I get it, LOL, but there's just no way I could buy one of those new Macbook Pros, not at that price point, for that crappy ass list of specs.

And when did they last update the Macs?  Oh wait, let's look:  https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac
Funny, four out of six items are "Don't Buy" and one is "Caution"...
The suggestion is otherwise to buy a laptop with a screen resolution that you can use the apps you want to work with as they are instead of complaining that developers aren't making their applications support the various attempts Microsoft have made at resolution independence. Even the OSX "better" solution isn't that great and fails to work well with some software.

So rather than buying something for the specs, buy it for its practical value. A super high resolution screen is no use for most people and this is coming from someone (heh) who uses "retina" and 4k monitors without any scaling, resulting in system fonts displayed at 4pt on the display.
 

Offline onesixright

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 08:51:11 am »
// Going off-topic on my own thread  :wtf:

Since CS 2.0 is lurking around the corner (any news?).

Would it be fair so say, you can upgrade 1.3 -> 2.0 when it comes out (with the current offer)?

Or will you need to buy a new license for 2.0 (can't imagine that)?
 

Offline trevwhite

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 08:55:32 am »
I believe the one year subscription (which is included) includes all updates.
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2017, 02:42:23 pm »
I believe the one year subscription (which is included) includes all updates.

Yes all updates are included during the subscription period.
 

Offline wrinklehead

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2017, 11:24:05 pm »
Coming from Eagle I am largely pleased and feel it is much nicer to work with.  However I do really miss polygon priorities.
 

Offline onesixright

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2017, 08:03:53 am »
However I do really miss polygon priorities.

Can anybody explain what is the polygon (pour?) function and what make it important?
 

Offline onesixright

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2017, 09:20:24 am »
I downloaded the trial. After a few crashes with the Vault  :-//, I had a look at the CS training videos. After all i'm pretty impressed. I quited Eagle years ago, and was using KiCad since. But man, this is some good stuff!  Setting up libraries, creating components goes pretty fast. Also cutting you board is easy. Although it works in Kicad, its tedious. Also the tab-sheets are a pretty useful.

For new users, have a look here http://www.circuitstudio.com/explore
I was looking first at youtube (was not that much), but these are short and pretty good. Gets you up to speed in no-time.

Guess I will be pulling the trigger in the coming days.  :popcorn:

And then to think CS 2.0 should be due anytime  :-+

No affiliation with CS.
 
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Online H.O

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2017, 09:27:42 am »
Quote
Can anybody explain what is the polygon (pour?) function and what make it important?

Polygons are used to define planes which are to be "poured" with copper (ie groundplanes etc), it's a crucial feature of any PCB tool.

Being able to set the priority or rank of polygons are important when two or more polygons overlap so that you you can tell if one should subtract from another or not and in which order. That functionallity is apparently not available in CS so you have to apply workarounds. I think it's a fairly basic function and I'm surprised they don't have better support for it. With that said I'm going fully on hearsay, haven't actually tried/tested how CS handle polygons yet.
 
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Offline onesixright

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2017, 09:47:44 am »
That functionallity is apparently not available in CS so you have to apply workarounds. I think it's a fairly basic function and I'm surprised they don't have better support for it. With that said I'm going fully on hearsay, haven't actually tried/tested how CS handle polygons yet.

CS made a video about Polygon Pours: http://www.circuitstudio.com/explore (go down to  Polygons Pours). There they explain one another.

I saw there is also a priority button below, that could be it?  I'm not familiar, so not sure if this is what you guys mean.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 10:08:16 am »
Regarding all the :blah: about "non-standard" resolutions, Windows supposedly not having DPI scaling, user takahidehimself in the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-on-4k-monitors/msg1164887/#msg1164887 provided a 30-second fix for the UI being non-workable on high DPI-screen. It boils down to overwriting the parameter by which the application mis-advertises itself as being properly DPI-aware and letting the OS do its work and scale it up itself using the default built in scaling mechanism. Yes, the one that isn't there, according to many |O
 

Offline negativ3

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2017, 04:57:26 pm »
A very nice upgrade from Eagle, especially when it comes to PCB layout.

For me, it would be nice to see:

1. Proper library management tools.
2. The ability to do away with (minimise?) the ribbon to get more real estate.
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2017, 07:27:10 pm »
Reading this topic does not help me to save my money...  8)

Offline dimkasta

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2017, 08:09:05 pm »
I am still evaluating the software (not buying or voting yet), but one thing that is going to be a problem for me is the lack of a version for OSX.

I do have access to windows machines, but my main office time is currently spent on OSX without the ability to host virtual operating systems. I hope this is on Altium's roadmap
 

Offline alexsander

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2017, 09:02:37 pm »
We are aware that there are several users who do use OSX but right now its not on our immediate road map. As you are aware there are virtual machines that you can use but nothing that is officially supported by us here at Altium.

-Alexsander from Altium
 

Offline dimkasta

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2017, 09:13:03 pm »
Thanks for clarifying
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2017, 09:34:28 pm »
Regarding all the :blah: about "non-standard" resolutions, Windows supposedly not having DPI scaling, user takahidehimself in the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-on-4k-monitors/msg1164887/#msg1164887 provided a 30-second fix for the UI being non-workable on high DPI-screen. It boils down to overwriting the parameter by which the application mis-advertises itself as being properly DPI-aware and letting the OS do its work and scale it up itself using the default built in scaling mechanism. Yes, the one that isn't there, according to many |O

The problem is between main window and pop out windows. Main window does to some extent support scaling - and change of scaling between screens - at least in v1.3 - but pop-out screens do NOT support scaling. I'll try the manifest hack and see how that behaves later on. But on my 200% scaled 4K screen - pop out screens totally ignores scaling. It is such a basic thing to fix - and done right it just works. But Altium has so far still not done it right. As far as I remember it is about 4 lines of code needed to check for scaling and change scaling in C'Sharp. But don't know about Delphi. :)
 

Offline Harvs

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2017, 06:33:53 am »
Regarding all the :blah: about "non-standard" resolutions, Windows supposedly not having DPI scaling, user takahidehimself in the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/circuit-studio-on-4k-monitors/msg1164887/#msg1164887 provided a 30-second fix for the UI being non-workable on high DPI-screen. It boils down to overwriting the parameter by which the application mis-advertises itself as being properly DPI-aware and letting the OS do its work and scale it up itself using the default built in scaling mechanism. Yes, the one that isn't there, according to many |O

The problem is between main window and pop out windows. Main window does to some extent support scaling - and change of scaling between screens - at least in v1.3 - but pop-out screens do NOT support scaling. I'll try the manifest hack and see how that behaves later on. But on my 200% scaled 4K screen - pop out screens totally ignores scaling. It is such a basic thing to fix - and done right it just works. But Altium has so far still not done it right. As far as I remember it is about 4 lines of code needed to check for scaling and change scaling in C'Sharp. But don't know about Delphi. :)

The mod works and solves all those problems.  I had done this with other programs and thought I'd tried it with CS... Obviously not.  Thanks for takahidehimself bring it up.
 

Offline FrankT

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Re: How you like CS?
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2017, 02:03:12 am »
LOL, proper universal scaling requires API support like Apple's Retina, which Windows does not offer.

Windows supported DPI awarness since Windows XP (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn469266(v=vs.85).aspx)

But as there has been hardly any hi-dpi displays, code was never written to take it into account.
 


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