EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => Contests & Events => Topic started by: EEVblog on February 05, 2016, 11:32:58 pm
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I have secured two very high end scopes to give away come March, they will even come with unique EEVblog special edition branding!
One for my regular audience, and one for my Patreon & Forum supporters.
But how to do the giveaway?
I've used the Wobbulator program before, but that limit the contest to forum members only which I have had complaints about, and fair enough I think.
Got any good ideas?
Maybe there is some online contest software where you can sign up and it picks a winner? (I haven't looked, just floating it) I could post a public link and a private supporters link.
Or I could just get people to comment in Youtube comments, blog website, or forum with a specific keyword, and I can get David to write a program to collate them all.
Live draw video of course.
Ideas and thoughts?
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1. Drawing of X number of Pre-Qualifying Entrants, forum members with X number of real posts, not just the one post sign up clowns.
2. Pre-Qualifying entrants answer a set of fairly obscure questions which relate directly to your videos, old (all the way back), and new. Not necessarily to show 100% right answers, but show a genuine interest by answers x% correctly.
3. Final drawing from the best of #2.
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I'm hoping that the draw is open to bribery and corruption in which case I might stand a bloody chance, I seriously need a decent scope to bring myself up to speed with the current technology and would in turn give away some new meters and other gear that I have here and am not using, if I won.
Thank you, this is a wonderful gesture on your part and that of the supplier.... :-+ :-+ :clap: :clap:
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idea, i have one :p me :-DD
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Post in thread and say "I want"
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Post in thread, say "I want" and then describe the first project it would get used on.
Most interesting project (where Dave judges interesting and includes the "has a hope in hell of being doable" metric) wins.
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1. Drawing of X number of Pre-Qualifying Entrants, forum members with X number of real posts, not just the one post sign up clowns.
2. Pre-Qualifying entrants answer a set of fairly obscure questions which relate directly to your videos, old (all the way back), and new. Not necessarily to show 100% right answers, but show a genuine interest by answers x% correctly.
3. Final drawing from the best of #2.
+1_100%_ :-+
As mentioned above the "what episode did Dave fly a quadcopter and how many times did it crash" might be a very good and fair playing field, the first to comment thing is no good with time zones and do people comment on Youtube or on the forum, sometimes this is not so clear.
The "I want" I personally feel is a bit rich, "Dave I would like" might be a bit more respectful and courteous.
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Post in thread, say "I want" and then describe the first project it would get used on.
Most interesting project (where Dave judges interesting and includes the "has a hope in hell of being doable" metric) wins.
Then it becomes a contest and not a giveaway.
Nothing wrong with a contest though if that's what people want.
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I've always liked the way you've done giveaways in the past, where young players tell you what they'll use the thing for and you pick a deserving winner. A high end scope isn't going to be of much use to a young player, but it would at least be nice to know that it goes to someone who will put it to good use rather than as a trophy in a massive wall of test equipment.
Maybe that's too much effort for this, I don't know. One thing is for sure; whatever you do there will be people who complain.
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One thing is for sure; whatever you do there will be people who complain.
That's for sure :)
If it was a contest, maybe it could be something like post a photo of your bench as a qualifier, show us a project, put your age and what you do (hobbyist, student, grad, grey beard etc) and let the community vote on the winner perhaps.
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A high end scope isn't going to be of much use to a young player, but it would at least be nice to know that it goes to someone who will put it to good use rather than as a trophy in a massive wall of test equipment.
That's always the risk with a random draw. It is a high end scope (think $15K worth).
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Hi
I would certainly vote for the simple answer of "send it to me" :)
The way many other places do it is a simple post in a thread sort of thing. There must be some sort of program (or at least a script) to pull names out of the list. I think that having people do *something* to enter is better than a totally passive process. The idea is to kick up interest with the contest. Drawing numbers out of a hat and then matching them with member numbers runs the risk of picking people who no longer have accurate info on file.
Bob
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The way many other places do it is a simple post in a thread sort of thing. There must be some sort of program (or at least a script) to pull names out of the list. I think that having people do *something* to enter is better than a totally passive process. The idea is to kick up interest with the contest. Drawing numbers out of a hat and then matching them with member numbers runs the risk of picking people who no longer have accurate info on file.
That's exactly how I have done previous contests.
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One thing is for sure; whatever you do there will be people who complain.
That's for sure :)
If it was a contest, maybe it could be something like post a photo of your bench as a qualifier, show us a project, put your age and what you do (hobbyist, student, grad, grey beard etc) and let the community vote on the winner perhaps.
Don't do that Dave. No matter who wins it some will surely think either the winner didn't need it or couldn't possibly use it as effectively as they themselves could have. It isn't worth the aggravation. Just have a draw from all entries with everyone having an equally fair chance. Clean and simple.
I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
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ya, a simple draw would be fair for everybody
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I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
Rules out everyone on Youtbue who isn't on the forum.
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I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
Rules out everyone on Youtbue who isn't on the forum.
What's your point? >:D
Ok - seriously - I hadn't thought about that... Separate drawing for each perhaps?
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Given that's it's an extremely generous prize, it has it's own unique problems.
- A "beginner / lurker / casual" wins it, and really has no use for it, other than a cheap CRO. To me, a waste of a good tool.
- A "member" enters and wins it, with no other motive than to sell it and make fast $$. Again, disappointing.
- Fake stories / uses / pictures are also a high probability, due to the prize value.
Whatever method, maybe a voting system, on say 10-12 front-runners, from members who didn't enter? or supporters? Just ideas.
It would be sad to find out that it was all for nothing. I'd hate to be in your shoes :-)
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You could go "old-school" and have people send in a postcard and then you could draw from a box/barrel/bag.
The Hellointernet podcast did this recently when they held a vote in their flag referendum.
http://www.hellointernet.fm/podcast/53 (http://www.hellointernet.fm/podcast/53)
I like that idea. Would lend itself well to a video of the draw too. Downside would be the amount of time it would take for international post to arrive.
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Maybe there is some online contest software where you can sign up and it picks a winner? (I haven't looked, just floating it) I could post a public link and a private supporters link.
Ive seen people who used this https://www.rafflecopter.com/ (https://www.rafflecopter.com/)
You can make people subscribe etc. to enter.
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Given the high value, you might need to think about international issues (both customs duties/taxes which could be imposed even if it marked gift and reported as low-valued, an legal issues regarding prize draws). Maybe chat with your friends at SupplyFrame about what was required in regard to the hackaday prizes.
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I agree that any sort of contest where opinion or judging is involved, will leave the process open to criticism.
I also believe any 'qualification' criteria needs to be somewhat independent of parameters such as length of membership or activity (whether EEVblog or Facebook).
It would seem that any sort of 'inclusion' mechanism would be appropriate if it were directly associated with interest in the prize. I would hate to see someone get a scope like that that hasn't the slightest interest in using it and just won it because they were 'in the room' as it were.
It is a further concern if the recipient could come under fire for not being in a position where they would not use the scope to it's fullest capabilities - so assessing or even commenting on that should be avoided. I know I would be unlikely to fully utilise a piece of kit like that - but it would be fully appreciated!
The postcard draw idea has its appeal - the postal service issue considered. I might suggest the formal announcement of an upcoming giveaway in a one-off blog video which can be a review (if you like), but details for entry will be announced at a later date. This way, the word gets out and people are watching for it. Once there has been a reasonable time for people to have found out about it, do another video to announce the giveaway period has commenced and include the entry details.
For an idea of how long to allow the entry period to run, I might suggest Dave sets up a poll thread where members here can vote on the time it takes for letters/postcards to get to Australia. They can be senders, receivers or just know of people who have some experience with this. From that, there will likely be a timeframe which will show up - and then add, say, two weeks.
I might also suggest that, in order to easily identify entry mail from other mail, that there be something big and obvious on the postcard/outside of the envelope. Alternatively, is there another postal address that could be used? (I'd offer my PO box - but I want to be in the draw ;D )
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Given the high value, you might need to think about international issues (both customs duties/taxes which could be imposed even if it marked gift and reported as low-valued, an legal issues regarding prize draws). Maybe chat with your friends at SupplyFrame about what was required in regard to the hackaday prizes.
Good point.
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I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
Rules out everyone on Youtbue who isn't on the forum.
Is it valuable for you to have increased forum membership? I mean, is it a goal you want to achieve?
If so, do a video saying there will be a BIG giveaway in April (or whenever), open to any forum member with 100 (or whatever) *real* and useful posts as of April 10 (or whatever date).
Bump your forum membership while you do a service for the community. Win/win.
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open to any forum member with 100 (or whatever) *real* and useful posts as of April 10 (or whatever date).
That will be a problem. Firstly, to define (you will have arguments out the wazoo) and secondly, to implement (how much work would be involved?)
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Dave, as above the value of the prize brings real problems with VAT, GST, duty and in some countries (American states) income tax for the winner.
It would the worthwhile pointing this out on the competition rules, along with the location the equipment is sourced from.
There every possibility the winner will have a large bill to pay, whey should consider before entering the competition.
I like the old form member technique. Picking a randomer from youtube may end up with a (ascii) dick head winning... :-)
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I suspect your generous donor would like some mileage out of his contribution. The contest approach has appeal in that direction. A random draw from whoever hears about this and mails a card in might not be as good. A drawing among existing members (however qualified by # posts, duration or whatever) is probably the worst.
All that said, I probably wouldn't enter a contest. I don't need the scope that badly, and the effort to reward ratio just isn't there unless there is almost no effort. It seems likely that there will be several thousand entries (7000 members of this forum, an unknown number of uTubers, and whoever else finds out about the contest), so the chances of winning will be quite small.
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I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
Rules out everyone on Youtbue who isn't on the forum.
Is it not better? You want to let the machine to find the best owner, no perfect way, but people that have certain number of postings tell something. You can dig deeper but it shall too time consuming.
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I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
Rules out everyone on Youtbue who isn't on the forum.
what's a youtuber-only (as in : not on the forum) going to do with a scope ? watch youtube on it ?
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I think one of the principles involved here is to offer something to the whole community that supports Dave and the EEVblog. While membership here does contribute to this, it is to a small degree and (as I understand it) the bulk of Dave's Youtube income comes from views from a far greater number of people.
As much as increasing the odds of winning isn't something I might find ecstatic - it is only fair.
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I agree. Simple drawing with a minimum number of real posts - not too low, not too high (?100) to qualify.
Rules out everyone on Youtbue who isn't on the forum.
what's a youtuber-only (as in : not on the forum) going to do with a scope ? watch youtube on it ?
Does that mean an analog scope? ;)
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what's a youtuber-only (as in : not on the forum) going to do with a scope ? watch youtube on it ?
That's going to be a problem for many - no matter who wins the scope. There will always be someone who will be frustrated that the winner doesn't use this feature or that function - or that a scope one tenth the price is more than adequate for their needs.
I would find it a tragic waste if the winner set it up next to his sound system to just display his speaker waveforms ... but trying to differentiate entrants on their intended use is just impractical. Finding a simpler solution that has some correlation to interest (such as taking the time to send a postcard) would be better ... but no guarantee. IMHO.
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Perhaps the old "explain in 25 words or less why you would like to win this scope" would work? It would at least make an interesting forum thread (and maybe we could vote for a worthy winner somehow).
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Perhaps the old "explain in 25 words or less why you would like to win this scope" would work? It would at least make an interesting forum thread (and maybe we could vote for a worthy winner somehow).
A couple of years ago my local chemist (a reasonably large one) had a competition like that - and I happened to speak to one of the staff involved in reviewing the entries. It was not a fun time - and there were a number of staff involved. I would not want Dave to suffer that sort of stress - even assuming he would have the time to do it.
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what's a youtuber-only (as in : not on the forum) going to do with a scope ? watch youtube on it ?
I've had many people complain on previous contests that they only follow the blog on Youtube, or the blog site, or whatever, and don't like forums. But they are just as loyal a viewer and contributor to comments etc as anyone else. And it's a fair enough argument.
My previous contests though have somewhat selfishly been a bit of a ploy to get people to join the forum ;D
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BTW - Don't think I'm being a wet blanket here, folks. If anything, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
In the end, this is Dave's call.
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Errrr.... Hi Dave! ;D
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Ok, I'm allowed to mention it now because it's kinda live:
The giveaway is part of Keysight's:
http://www.scopemonth.com/ (http://www.scopemonth.com/)
Teaser will start there 8th Feb, and the huge giveaway happens all through March.
Those who don't win one of my two scopes will have no shortage of chances on the Keysight site.
I believe I'm getting two MSOX3104T (1GHz) scopes (with custom EEVBlog graphics), so they are super serious about this giveaway!
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That is awesome!
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I think one of the principles involved here is to offer something to the whole community that supports Dave and the EEVblog. While membership here does contribute to this, it is to a small degree and (as I understand it) the bulk of Dave's Youtube income comes from views from a far greater number of people.
Excluding uCurrent sales, the bulk of my income comes from advertising on my blog site and this forum. Youtube income 2nd, Patreon & supporter subs 3rd, other PayPal donations 4th, and maybe T-shirts on par with PayPal donations.
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That is awesome!
It is indeed.
They originally wanted me to promote it for free. I of course turned them down as there wasn't anything in it for me. And considering I don't do paid promotions, I bartered two scopes for my audience instead ;D
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Randomly giving away a 15K scope is just a big marketing stunt. It's not charity, and it's not about what the person is going to do with it. It's like when Sparkfun gave away $200K of stuff in one day, $100 per person. $200K in stuff was worth the exposure and getting people to make accounts and put things in their shopping cart. The answer to how to run the 15K scope marketing stunt is whatever gives the most return on the expense.
Based on that, I like the suggestion of forum users with 100+ legit posts. That gives you more forum members and posts and at the same time converts the youtube lurkers into possible regular revenue generating forum posters.
If only more people knew what an oscilloscope was you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
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My apologies. I was looking at a rather simplistic count of Youtube subscribers. Obviously there's a lot more to it.
Nevertheless, Youtube and Facebook are obviously significant in the scheme of things.
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I really would like to win this!
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... you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
I understand what you're saying, but I couldn't watch something like that happen to a Keysight scope like that.
Cringe just doesn't come close....
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Nevertheless, Youtube and Facebook are obviously significant in the scheme of things.
Facebook is insignificant. I do auto-post my videos there but don't interact. I hate Facebook.
Sorry to all Facebook viewers, but the giveaway certainly won't be on there.
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That is awesome!
It is indeed.
They originally wanted me to promote it for free. I of course turned them down as there wasn't anything in it for me. And considering I don't do paid promotions, I bartered two scopes for my audience instead ;D
:-+
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I think for a real contest, you should have to do something.
Design a circuit, that does...
You got 4 weeks to send Kicad files and sources (if mcu is used).
Maybe with different categories. Pure analog, mcu (no arduino libs) and arduino.
Like the current 10-liner basic contest from Bunsen, or so.
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Nevertheless, Youtube and Facebook are obviously significant in the scheme of things.
Facebook is insignificant. I do auto-post my videos there but don't interact. I hate Facebook.
Sorry to all Facebook viewers, but the giveaway certainly won't be on there.
Think I'll just shut up about all that stuff.
I'd just like a shot at the prize.............
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Randomly giving away a 15K scope is just a big marketing stunt. It's not charity, and it's not about what the person is going to do with it. It's like when Sparkfun gave away $200K of stuff in one day, $100 per person. $200K in stuff was worth the exposure and getting people to make accounts and put things in their shopping cart. The answer to how to run the 15K scope marketing stunt is whatever gives the most return on the expense.
Based on that, I like the suggestion of forum users with 100+ legit posts. That gives you more forum members and posts and at the same time converts the youtube lurkers into possible regular revenue generating forum posters.
The argument couldn't certainly be made that it should be active forum users only because those people are contributing to the community discussions.
If I included Youtuber commenters then there is no easy way (if at all?) to see if that user actively contributes to community discussion on my Youtube videos.
In fact, the odds are likely in favour of an anonymous Youtuber commenter would win given the numbers.
If I do chose forum-only then I will have to pre-announce now to give new people time to join and contribute if they want to enter.
Last time I did this there was a big stink though about a huge spike in people joining and useless posts just to get their post count up.
If only more people knew what an oscilloscope was you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
Would take at least 3M views to get $15k out of one video!
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Last time I did this there was a big stink though about a huge spike in people joining and useless posts just to get their post count up.
A recipe that will result in the same outcome every time.
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If only more people knew what an oscilloscope was you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
Would take at least 3M views to get $15k out of one video!
3M views... BAM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwn-Tfc4P2Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwn-Tfc4P2Q)
5M views.. BAM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxQO5vYfDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxQO5vYfDA)
13M Views... BAM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQGKPAfz0xs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQGKPAfz0xs)
:)
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If only more people knew what an oscilloscope was you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
That's why Apple fan(atic)boys are creatively stupid. AFAIK, Keysight fanboys are usually more intelligent and sane.
There is also a stronger negative response to Apple products than to Keysight ones.
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3M views... BAM!
They are all iPhones, a kinda bigger target audience ::)
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dave you can sell this item and buy alot of nice but fairly priced scopes, meters ,maybe electronic loads etc and giveaway lots of items upto 5 -10 items. this will prevent winners selling the 15k scope and making money fast.
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I don't think Keysight would be too impressed.
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all of their brand could be keysight then.
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Still ... they're not offering these particular scopes for no reason.
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then dave will challange a big job giving this item fairly.
i think dave can ask why they need that particular scope for their work and make it proofed by a video on youtube. and make it video contest.
i think it is a very fair way.
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i think dave can ask why they need that particular scope for their work and make it proofed by a video on youtube. and make it video contest.
You just excluded thousands of people and cut the interest level overall. You would also exclude myself, since I would not need a scope over $5k. Also, if you mean 'their work' as being an income generating activity, then you just excluded students, people doing their own research and any hobbyist. Not to mention that, if their 'work' makes such a scope a necessity, then it would have likely been purchased already.
Requiring submissions to be via video adds an extra level of complexity that could require the most eligible entrant to have to get into the video scene - which they may have no idea about. Driving a scope is not the same as videography.
You might as well invite submissions from people as to why they should be allowed to enter the giveaway.
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1. Dave wants to maximise new viewers and form members.
2. Dave wants to expend as little effort on judging etc as possible.
Solutions?
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I would seriously love to have a beast like that on my workbench - and any way to improve my chances would be appealing, but defining rules around my situation to exclude others is just wrong.
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then he will make a video then subscribers comment answers of 10 episode coverage quiz . then he will make another video and make an lottery from subscribers that correct answered the quiz.
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I'm only guessing here - but I don't think Dave will have time for all that!
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Dave, just send them to me.. I'll sort it out for you.
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open to any forum member with 100 (or whatever) *real* and useful posts as of April 10 (or whatever date).
That will be a problem. Firstly, to define (you will have arguments out the wazoo) and secondly, to implement (how much work would be involved?)
It's an arbitrary metric wholly decided by Dave. But it's like porn... you know it when you see it. There's nothing wrong with limiting in any way he sees fit.
Having said that, and on second thought, I personally think it should be forum members who were registered before the video date and with X posts. Otherwise, when word gets out (and it will) that all you need to do to possibly win a $15,000 scope is register on a site, there will be TONS of registrations from people who have exactly zero interest in electronics who are dying to win the scope so they can toss it up on eBay.
I would the criteria Dave cares about are contributors or legit users, and I would bet the manufacturer would just like it to go to an electronics guy - whether a noob or an old hat or a hobbyist or a pro - as long as it's someone who is interested in electronics.
Side note : I listed some free parts on Craigslist (essentially the free want-ads for those not familiar). Within minutes, I had dozens of replies... "I will take it!". Upon trying to be fair and reply to the first guy, he said "What is it that you are giving away again? Can you send me a list?". There are tons of people that troll Craigslist for free stuff then try to sell it right back on CL or eBay or whatever. Screw those folks. And a $15k scope? That would be the win of a lifetime. If word got out, the number of non-electronics people registering for the scope would exceed by far the total number of existing users, making it likely one of them wins and not a legit user.
Dave can do a video announcing the giveaway and saying it's open for EXISTING forum users, then mention that there have been multiple giveaways in the past, so people should sign up for the forum and participate so they are in the running for the next one.
Anyone who isn't really interested in the content won't likely register and be an active user for the chance to possibly enter a future drawing - too much work for a selfish asshole without guaranteed reward. But it will encourage legit users to sign up and participate.
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Considering the value, I really think it should be something that requires some significant amount of effort to
participate rather than a random draw.
Maybe submit a 10 second video showing why your scope isn't good enough, or what you need it for.
In terms of getting useful things to those that need them most, I also wonder if it might be better to ask them if maybe more, lower-value products would be better than a couple of high-end ones.
As regards duty/ tax issues, I'd expect Keysight can handle it by shipping via their local sales office/distributor.
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I'm with Mike on this one. Ideally, such a high-end scope should go to someone who will make use of its sophisticated features in a hobbyist environment. The contest should be limited to long term members who would have to present their current advanced project and explain how it would benefit from using some of the scope's unique features.
I can understand that the financial aspect is key though and the scheme that provides you with the highest revenue should be the one to implement.
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I'm with Mike on this one. Ideally, such a high-end scope should go to someone who will make use of its sophisticated features in a hobbyist environment. The contest should be limited to long term members who would have to present their current advanced project and explain how it would benefit from using some of the scope's unique features.
If it should go to the most worthy, or where it could potentially get the most use, then I might as well just donate it to the local hacker space?
I can understand that the financial aspect is key though and the scheme that provides you with the highest revenue should be the one to implement.
I don't really get "revenue" from this, at least not in a direct tangible way, regardless of how I run it.
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If it is not feasible to give them away based on merit just get a random number from Random.org (https://www.random.org/)
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Awesome!
Ideas and thoughts?
How about "The winner must not already have a high end scope, has to live in Slovakia and his forum nick name must start with a 'd' and end with a 'aqq'"? That would certainly seem fair to me... ;D
More realistically, I don't think that there is any universally fair system that would draw from all of your sources (youtube, this forum, facebook apparently not?) automatically. Particularly because of reasons previously explained that free stuff trolls will flock around, create a hundred accounts etc.
All in all I agree with Mike - at least some effort should be required to enter.
If it should go to the most worthy, or where it could potentially get the most use, then I might as well just donate it to the local hacker space?
That's an idea! Make a contest where hacker spaces rather than individuals can enter.
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I'm with Mike on this one. Ideally, such a high-end scope should go to someone who will make use of its sophisticated features in a hobbyist environment. The contest should be limited to long term members who would have to present their current advanced project and explain how it would benefit from using some of the scope's unique features.
If it should go to the most worthy, or where it could potentially get the most use, then I might as well just donate it to the local hacker space?
Not necessarily the most "worthy", maybe the funniest, or bizarre..
I just think it needs to be some significant amount of effort to weed out some of the freebie-hunters who are only interested in the monetary value.
Random thought - competition to build the the most interesting 'sculpture' out of parts soldered together christmas-tree style. Bonus points if it's actually functional.
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Ok, I'm allowed to mention it now because it's kinda live:
The giveaway is part of Keysight's:
http://www.scopemonth.com/ (http://www.scopemonth.com/)
But...
http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
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Dave, would you consider presenting one to a member the forum collectively considers has made an outstanding contribution over say the last two years?
By way of some nominations first followed by a poll?
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http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
That does suck :--
Impressive contest though:
Prize Description. There will be thirty-five prize winners. The prizes are:
? 31x InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX3104T) to be chosen daily
? 4x InfiniiVision 4000 X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX4104A) to be chosen weekly
Although if they were halfway smart in marketing they would have done what Tektronix did with the MDO3000, just give one to every blogger.
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Dave, would you consider presenting one to a member the forum collectively considers has made an outstanding contribution over say the last two years?
That means everyone else misses out on a chance and it's no longer a giveaway or contest, so no point doing a video to promote it. Keysight are expecting a promo mention in return for this.
I've already promised one as a giveaway for Patreon supporters.
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Dave. i think there will be an effort to be in the giveaway contest.mikes 10 sec video is nice thought . this is not a 100 dollar multimeter contest.
btw you are free to do what you want.
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We are waiting to contrubute in this event then
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If I understand this correctly that Keysight have generously donated a couple of very nice oscilloscopes then what is wrong with simply letting them get some well deserved publicity and a couple of lucky people a nice bit of kit. And the EEVBlog gets some benefit in terms of publicity and credit. The rest of us can be appreciative to Keysight for the generosity they have shown.
All people who think it is their prerogative to sit in judgement about who is and who is not deserving should pull their heads in.
Perhaps I should be a bit selfish in this and try and get some benefit too.
I don't need the publicity and credit, but some things that would be nice and are beneficial for example is more forum participation. And I've been meaning to set up an email newsletter, so maybe this is way to seed that (but could be spam entry abused obviously).
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If you want to include the youtube only crowd, how about getting to know your audience better.
The participants could post a short (2min) video. Who are they? How did they get into electronics? What's their electronic fokus? Quick show of their workbench and maybe a current project.
The winner is drawn from all participants.
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http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
That does suck :--
Impressive contest though:
Prize Description. There will be thirty-five prize winners. The prizes are:
? 31x InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX3104T) to be chosen daily
? 4x InfiniiVision 4000 X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX4104A) to be chosen weekly
Although if they were halfway smart in marketing they would have done what Tektronix did with the MDO3000, just give one to every blogger.
Any mention on why some countries are included or excluded? Maybe it is to keep the local distributors happy.
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Ok, I'm allowed to mention it now because it's kinda live:
The giveaway is part of Keysight's:
http://www.scopemonth.com/ (http://www.scopemonth.com/)
But...
http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
Hmmm...they appear to have misspelt Australia.
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Whatever u do , just don't forget me.I want it too ????
Sent from my HTC Desire 820ts using Tapatalk
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Dave you can ask people to share a picture or video of their projects or PCB Designs!
Just wanted to make sure you got me covered!
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I check out the forum often, but I find commenting or thumbs up/down on Youtube harder now.
Why? My Panasonic zt60 plasma tv has a youtube app, and it is difficult to get to the thumbs, and impossible to comment.
Also I have been donating 2.00 USD a month for years on my Paypal account. Is that run by Patreon?
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http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
That does suck :--
Impressive contest though:
Prize Description. There will be thirty-five prize winners. The prizes are:
? 31x InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX3104T) to be chosen daily
? 4x InfiniiVision 4000 X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX4104A) to be chosen weekly
Although if they were halfway smart in marketing they would have done what Tektronix did with the MDO3000, just give one to every blogger.
Any mention on why some countries are included or excluded? Maybe it is to keep the local distributors happy.
For that prize, it would be well worth taking a flight to an included country to collect!
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http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
That does suck :--
Impressive contest though:
Prize Description. There will be thirty-five prize winners. The prizes are:
? 31x InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX3104T) to be chosen daily
? 4x InfiniiVision 4000 X-Series oscilloscopes (MSOX4104A) to be chosen weekly
Although if they were halfway smart in marketing they would have done what Tektronix did with the MDO3000, just give one to every blogger.
Any mention on why some countries are included or excluded? Maybe it is to keep the local distributors happy.
I wonder why I can select my country and see a message which says that I'm in. There are way more countries in the selection list too. When I participated to the trigger challenge in the past, IIRC Latvia wasn't included in the rules too. But they sent me a crappy screwdriver with LED. Also I received a mail from the local Keysight reseller guy whom I know (They sent him the info about me participating).
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For that prize, it would be well worth taking a flight to an included country to collect!
Not going to work: "who are legal residents of, and physically located within"
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For that prize, it would be well worth taking a flight to an included country to collect!
Not going to work: "who are legal residents of, and physically located within"
Depends how hard they look.
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India is in the list btw!! :clap: :clap:
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I just want to say good luck to who ever wins these nice items.
A big thanks to Dave for even making it possible. :-+
I never win nothing so no need in me participating. Very disappointed not winning the 1.5 bill loto here :-DD So one less person everyone has to compete with.
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Look for forum user with a minimum number of posts: 10, 100, whatever...
About "too much of a price" for beginners that will never use all the potential of the scope; it could be, but the "unqualified" winner always can sell the scope and buy "standard" items to fill his hobby lab.
There all many post here with "elitist" comments. It looks like there are second class forum members here. It could be that most of the forum members are not E.E.
Please, let superiority at home.
We are all "the same" here, forum users that help Dave selling paying adds space.
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To be honest, I know I couldn't use the scope (it'd be an awesome shelf trophy and then I'd feel like a heel for not ever using the thing properly).
But why not donate it to a hackerspace? It's a bit pricey, but hey, if thirty or forty people could use it, maybe that's the best life to give it? And if it's got "Donated by the EEVBlog" engraved into it on the front panel somewhere, then there's long-lasting targeted advertising for the blog.
Or did keysight specify that that wasn't allowed?
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I think the excluded countries and regions have to do with them having physical presence in there, so it's probably tax related.
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...or to do with the laws of certain countries in respect of gambling and lotteries. Chances are the lawyers have checked that it's OK to give stuff away to residents of the approved list of countries, and provided that list includes most of the places that actually buy Keysight scopes, then that's all they need to do.
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Why do they prohibit Florida?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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yeah, looks like Brazil isn't worthy either... :clap: ...
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If it should go to the most worthy, or where it could potentially get the most use, then I might as well just donate it to the local hacker space?
Not such a bad idea, as much as any individual would like to be the winner of a hot scope, perhaps you could offer it to any not-for-profit group such as a hacker space or radio club etc. That way there is a potential that a number of people will get some use out of it and perhaps someone will make use of the advanced features instead of it just being used to troubleshoot an Arduino doh-dah. Get the hacker spaces to send in a postcard with a suggestion for an EEVblog video and you choose based on the idea you like most?
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Ok, I'm allowed to mention it now because it's kinda live:
The giveaway is part of Keysight's:
http://www.scopemonth.com/ (http://www.scopemonth.com/)
But...
http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Jan26-2016.pdf)
This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.
WTF? :--
Like they managed to include every country around us...
Dave, you might consider just picking an existing list, like the uRurer+uCurrent buyer's list, and use that for the draw. That would probably increase future sales?
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Perhaps I should be a bit selfish in this and try and get some benefit too.
I don't need the publicity and credit, but some things that would be nice and are beneficial for example is more forum participation. And I've been meaning to set up an email newsletter, so maybe this is way to seed that (but could be spam entry abused obviously).
The only reason you have the scope to give away is because you have an audience that Keysight wants to be promoted among. You don't have that audience based on luck, but on hard work. You absolutely should get some benefit out of this - nothing wrong with that at all. Nothing wrong with heavily advertising that one giveaway is for existing Patreon/forum supporters too, get some more people signing up so they can participate in the next one. I say existing not because I am one, but solely because otherwise people would sign up for a month, donate a dollar, then quit. But if that suits you, then nothing wrong with doing that too.
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If it should go to the most worthy, or where it could potentially get the most use, then I might as well just donate it to the local hacker space?
Not such a bad idea, as much as any individual would like to be the winner of a hot scope, perhaps you could offer it to any not-for-profit group such as a hacker space or radio club etc. That way there is a potential that a number of people will get some use out of it and perhaps someone will make use of the advanced features instead of it just being used to troubleshoot an Arduino doh-dah. Get the hacker spaces to send in a postcard with a suggestion for an EEVblog video and you choose based on the idea you like most?
As I stated in the other thread - I think this nice of a scope would be very likely to disappear quickly from a hacker space. But perhaps that is just a reflection of my limited hacker space experience.
Here's an idea: Have one rule of the contest be that the winner agrees to donate their current scope to a hacker space or to a deserving scope-less forum member. That's a win win - you ensure that the new owner has at least some prior experience with a scope and can appreciate what they are getting and you end up with a multiplier - 2 people get new scopes!
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Here's an idea: Have one rule of the contest be that the winner agrees to donate their current scope to a hacker space or to a deserving scope-less forum member. That's a win win - you ensure that the new owner has at least some prior experience with a scope and can appreciate what they are getting and you end up with a multiplier - 2 people get new scopes!
I'd be OK with that - but I'm not sure anyone would really be excited about my old scope. Everything works - but it's a bit battered and bruised ... and very likely to be out of spec.
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In the state of New South Wales where Dave is I found this:
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Businesses/Advertising_and_marketing/Special_offers_and_competitions.page (http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Businesses/Advertising_and_marketing/Special_offers_and_competitions.page)
It might apply to Dave if he includes a requirement to purchase something from the EEVBlog. I'm no lawyer but maybe a Patreon "donation" could fall under such a definition. When the prize is an Oscilloscope worth many thousands of dollars it might matter more so than for a prize of much lesser value.
Legally (tax-wise etc), Patreon donations are just that, voluntary personal donations, with no expectation o any return.
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Also I have been donating 2.00 USD a month for years on my Paypal account. Is that run by Patreon?
No, Patreon is separate system. Before Patreon, PayPal donations was the only option. I prefer people use Patreon, as it:
a) Is public, so people know how much I'm getting
b) It has easy mechanism in place to provide content or other stuff to supporters.
I still accept PayPal of course, but I'd prefer if people switched to Patreon. But no worries if you don't want to though.
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I'm not terribly wise in the ways of legal issues, but it might be good business to have one of the drawings pulled from people that have purchased the rebadged meter if it is available in time for the giveaway. Just a thought.
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I'ld like to be on , what ever list it becomes ? ;)
Have to keep reading to see how it works out .
It's too late , already hooked on the site & youtube
Thanks Dave / Daves
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I'm not terribly wise in the ways of legal issues, but it might be good business to have one of the drawings pulled from people that have purchased the rebadged meter if it is available in time for the giveaway. Just a thought.
I think that would be covered by the Supporters group - and Dave has already earmarked one of the scopes for there.
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Dave, any ideas on when this contest will actually be started and awarded ?
Is it a case of waiting till Keysight ship them to you, or do you have a date in mind ?
Just wondering how drawn(teehee) out the process will be.
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Dave, any ideas on when this contest will actually be started and awarded ?
Is it a case of waiting till Keysight ship them to you, or do you have a date in mind ?
Just wondering how drawn(teehee) out the process will be.
Start of March
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Design a circuit, that does...
Maybe with different categories. Pure analog, mcu (no arduino libs) mixed signal and arduino.
I like this suggestion. One scope for each category, the third one automatically rules you out of the draw. ;D
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Design a circuit, that does...
Maybe with different categories. Pure analog, mcu (no arduino libs) mixed signal and arduino.
I like this suggestion. One scope for each category, the third one automatically rules you out of the draw. ;D
But not all uses for a high end scope involve circuit design...
And what's to prevent plagiarism - which is trivially easy these days?
Unfortunately, I think trying to find a way for the winners to "prove" they deserve or need one of these scopes will only lead to either overly complex rules - taking up lots of Dave's time - or a process that is easily gamed.
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Post in thread, say "I want" and then describe the first project it would get used on.
Most interesting project (where Dave judges interesting and includes the "has a hope in hell of being doable" metric) wins.
Stay tuned, we may or may not :) have something like that coming!
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If only more people knew what an oscilloscope was you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
AFAIK, Keysight fanboys are usually more intelligent and sane.
Keysight fanboys (and girls) are among the more most intelligent and sane!
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Quick comment on country/state based eligibility. We've included as many regions as we legally could; we aren't intentionally ruling people out. Many regions have strict rules around total prize value, giveaway mechanics, location of giveaway host etc.
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Quick comment on country/state based eligibility. We've included as many regions as we legally could; we aren't intentionally ruling people out. Many regions have strict rules around total prize value, giveaway mechanics, location of giveaway host etc.
I'm sure that there are good reasons to leave some countries/regions out, but that doesn't make me feel left out any less :(
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I just looked at the official rules (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Feb1-2016.pdf):
In accordance with local laws, if the selected entrant is a Canadian or South African resident, that entrant will be required to answer a mathematical skill testing question, without assistance of any kind (whether mechanical or otherwise), within the time frame provided above.
:wtf:
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I just looked at the official rules (http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Rules-Scope-Month-Giveaway-Feb1-2016.pdf):
In accordance with local laws, if the selected entrant is a Canadian or South African resident, that entrant will be required to answer a mathematical skill testing question, without assistance of any kind (whether mechanical or otherwise), within the time frame provided above.
:wtf:
LOL, that just means that by local law you can't just give away anything without a contest. Of course the question can be what the answer is to 1+1 ;D
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Indeed. To win a 3000X scope, it might be "what's the next number in the sequence 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, ???"
To win a 90000 series, it'll be more along the lines of "Prove P = NP or otherwise, you have six hours" :-DD
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Nice find! That's by far my favorite T&C. Basically, computers can't win.
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Indeed. To win a 3000X scope, it might be "what's the next number in the sequence 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, ???"
To win a 90000 series, it'll be more along the lines of "Prove P = NP or otherwise, you have six hours" :-DD
If P = NP no need for a scope, your problem is already solved :D
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@ Keysight_DanielBogdanoff
Would you be able to find out why some countries, in my case particularly Australia are not on the list?
I guess it's a case by case basis.
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@ Keysight_DanielBogdanoff
Would you be able to find out why some countries, in my case particularly Australia are not on the list?
I guess it's a case by case basis.
Yes, each country is a case by case basis for reasons listed in my previous post. We're taking a closer look at Australia to try to include it (no promises).
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Looking forward to answering a skill testing question when my name is drawn!
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That's always the risk with a random draw. It is a high end scope (think $15K worth).
Sell it for $10K. Buyer will be happy and make use of it.
Use money to get 20 low end scopes to giveaway. Higher probability of having someone happy and more people happy.
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Sell it for $10K. Buyer will be happy and make use of it.
Use money to get 20 low end scopes to giveaway. Higher probability of having someone happy and more people happy.
Yeah, he should buy 20 Rigols for that money. That will really help promote Keysight's scopes! |O
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Dave,
Please setup the contest to enter only the forum members with screen name 'rx8pilot'
That way, I can be sure that the instrument will get a solid daily workout!
Plus, this plan is simple and foolproof.
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That's always the risk with a random draw. It is a high end scope (think $15K worth).
Sell it for $10K. Buyer will be happy and make use of it.
Use money to get 20 low end scopes to giveaway. Higher probability of having someone happy and more people happy.
I'd be happier to keep faith with Keysight - and offer entry level Keysight scopes, even if it meant a smaller chance of winning for me.
Keysight gear (once HP) has always been an unjustifiable aspiration for me and I would relish having a scope as a prize. A $5K scope would be more than I need - but a $15K scope would blow my socks off!
Sad to say, there aren't many people around me that would appreciate either....
... but I sure as hell would! ;D ;D
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I will be sure to at least enter the Keysight contest! Hopefully I will qualify for the EEVBlog drawing...
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well, I won't participate, but I want to wish everybody good luck! :-+
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Randomly giving away a 15K scope is just a big marketing stunt. It's not charity, and it's not about what the person is going to do with it. It's like when Sparkfun gave away $200K of stuff in one day, $100 per person. $200K in stuff was worth the exposure and getting people to make accounts and put things in their shopping cart. The answer to how to run the 15K scope marketing stunt is whatever gives the most return on the expense.
Based on that, I like the suggestion of forum users with 100+ legit posts. That gives you more forum members and posts and at the same time converts the youtube lurkers into possible regular revenue generating forum posters.
If only more people knew what an oscilloscope was you could probably make more than $15K from views by saying how expensive it is and then smashing it, or lighting it on fire, or blending it in a chipper shredder or something in a youtube video like people do when new Apple stuff comes out.
I'm just going to leave this here.
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I'm just going to leave this here.
Awesome! I didn't realize Keysight scopes now have a grilling option. I want one! A temperature probe could be useful. Is there a rotisserie option available as well?
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For some of us an incorporated ECG and Defibrillator function might be a handy option to have onboard, if one of these scopes turned up on my doorstep I would probably be out for the count.
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@ Keysight_DanielBogdanoff
Would you be able to find out why some countries, in my case particularly Australia are not on the list?
I guess it's a case by case basis.
Yes, each country is a case by case basis for reasons listed in my previous post. We're taking a closer look at Australia to try to include it (no promises).
Why Florida though?
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If the "I want" thread route is chosen, please, please, find a way to limit to a single post per member to avoid hijack by the nutter brigade.
Make a rule of x posts and y time subscribed at the time of the contest opening.
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I reckon there will be a lot of things Dave will be thinking about for this giveaway - and being hijacked will most probably be high on his list.
Not sure I'd want to be in Dave's shoes on this one.
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I would vote for truly random, from any active member (e.g. anybody who posted 4x times in the last month). IMO anybody who "really needs" or could "fully use" a high end scope would rule out the majority of hobbyists members.
If it really is a giveaway, just email them all the qualifying members with a simple random question like"what is the voltage at point 'A' in this resistor network (+/- 5%) and leave it at that.
A word of caution to the eventual winner - I got my only scope (a lowend 100MHz jobbie) by helping somebody in the USA with a Kickstarter project. That US$350 scope it cost me around $200 in duty, clearance, GST and other charges. So if somebody in NZ won a US$10k scope, that would be up for at least NZ$2000 just in GST for getting it in the country - and I don't know about you, but I don't have that money around to spare.
If I had $2k spare to spend on hobby electronics I would use money like that to get something like a Rigol DS-1074Z, a simple function generator, a decent PSU (rather than my second hand 10+ year old DSE linear one), and a Saleae Logic Pro 8 and maybe a decent meter, and would get more value from it.
Humm, maybe then again I wouldn't - I'ld stick with what i have and buy a new hard-tail mountain bike. Got to get my priorities right ;D
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I would expect that Keysight would take responsibility for any costs of importing the scope to their local office. I don't know if any countries tax gifts in kind, as opposed to money prizes, but mine doesn't!
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I would expect that Keysight would take responsibility for any costs of importing the scope to their local office. I don't know if any countries tax gifts in kind, as opposed to money prizes, but mine doesn't!
+1
Unless they do, it's not a prize they offer but a liability. :wtf:
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I would expect that Keysight would take responsibility for any costs of importing the scope to their local office. I don't know if any countries tax gifts in kind, as opposed to money prizes, but mine doesn't!
+1
Unless they do, it's not a prize they offer but a liability. :wtf:
Hi
In most countries / most contests, a prize is indeed a liability. You do owe various taxes on it. It is not in the least bit uncommon to see people turn around and sell their "free prize" brand new SUV when they see the tax bill associated with it. Some contests have a "spending money" add on that comes with the prize. Oddly enough, if you look at the dollar amount, in many cases it's close to what the obvious taxes would cost you.
Bob
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AFAIK, the term "gift" is is meaningless in European customs regulations for anything > 700€. Which means taxes depending on product category plus import sales tax.
So for 15k€ scope a European winner would have to pay at least the import sales tax, which is e.g. 19% in Germany (slightly higher/lower for other countries).
So this would be around 2850€. Which might be OK for people who really can make use of a 15k€ scope, but for a lot of people this will be a very bitter pill to swallow.
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AFAIK, the term "gift" is is meaningless in European customs regulations for anything > 700€. Which means taxes depending on product category plus import sales tax.
So for 15k€ scope a European winner would have to pay at least the import sales tax, which is e.g. 19% in Germany (slightly higher/lower for other countries).
So this would be around 2850€. Which might be OK for people who really can make use of a 15k€ scope, but for a lot of people this will be a very bitter pill to swallow.
In fact, most places don't recognize "gift" at all - basically if the goods declared value (or real one if the customs don't believe that that huge scope is just $10 ...) is above a certain limit, you have to pay both VAT and import duties. And those limits are often fairly arbitrary - even as low as 50 EUR!
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Hi
I have absolutely no idea what Keysight's policy is and I most certainly do not speak for them.
One thing I have seen in similar circumstances (I can't afford my prize) is a after the fact deal. Rather than the specific prize you won, you get the taxes paid and a true "free to you" prize of a lesser value. They keep a brand new piece of gear (that they can still sell as brand new). You get something that works fine for you and don't go broke.
I have *never* seen anybody talk about this in their rules. I have also never seen anybody commit to this sort of thing ahead of time. In the few cases that I actually know of it being a problem, (none with Keysight) it was worked out as I describe above. It was done quietly and after all the fancy photos were taken.
The only time I have been directly involved, we sold the $1200 gizmo for $800 and paid the (I suspect) $300 tax on the lower amount. I was pissed about it. I spent maybe an hour stuffing the drawing box with multiple entries. That's a lot of time writing for a ten year old kid ....
Bob
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here it would be about 60% in taxes, soooo no thank you...
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here it would be about 60% in taxes, soooo no thank you...
Hi
Where I live, it would be a lot more today than it was ... errr ... 50+ years ago ...
Bob
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here it would be about 60% in taxes, soooo no thank you...
Hi
Where I live, it would be a lot more today than it was ... errr ... 50+ years ago ...
Bob
yeah I know...it pretty much sux over here...
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FWIW I don't think the competition should be fair!
You should give the stuff away to the most deserving causes. A person who already has 20 scopes and a room full of test gear doesn't deserve it, they have enough junk already...
I suggest that everybody gets 100 words to describe why they need it....
... now judging alot of entries is hard so you need some sort of social networking judging scheme...
If you redistributed the entries amongst the peer group then they could award scores and then when you combine them all together... hey you have a winner.
:)
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FWIW I don't think the competition should be fair!
You should give the stuff away to the most deserving causes. A person who already has 20 scopes and a room full of test gear doesn't deserve it, they have enough junk already...
I suggest that everybody gets 100 words to describe why they need it....
... now judging alot of entries is hard so you need some sort of social networking judging scheme...
If you redistributed the entries amongst the peer group then they could award scores and then when you combine them all together... hey you have a winner.
:)
Hi
I applaud your well considered desire to reduce the judging scheme. One would *never* want to overwork the judges. I would only propose one or two *minor* adjustments ... (as in hold on to your wallet ....).
Those who already have many scopes are (obviously 8)) the most experienced in their care and feeding. Rather than a messy public debate over who gets what (which would only lead to acrimony between members), simply send all the entries to me and I'll let you know who won :) :)
I'm only thinking of making things easier of course.
Bob (soon to have "address unknown" as his forwarding address ...)
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Hi
I have absolutely no idea what Keysight's policy is and I most certainly do not speak for them.
One thing I have seen in similar circumstances (I can't afford my prize) is a after the fact deal. Rather than the specific prize you won, you get the taxes paid and a true "free to you" prize of a lesser value. They keep a brand new piece of gear (that they can still sell as brand new). You get something that works fine for you and don't go broke.
I have *never* seen anybody talk about this in their rules. I have also never seen anybody commit to this sort of thing ahead of time. In the few cases that I actually know of it being a problem, (none with Keysight) it was worked out as I describe above. It was done quietly and after all the fancy photos were taken.
The only time I have been directly involved, we sold the $1200 gizmo for $800 and paid the (I suspect) $300 tax on the lower amount. I was pissed about it. I spent maybe an hour stuffing the drawing box with multiple entries. That's a lot of time writing for a ten year old kid ....
Bob
I presume that the reason they keep it quiet is that if they didn't you would also be taxed on the money they pay you to pay the tax!
But, as I say, in the UK there is no tax on prizes or gifts, or indeed on lottery winnings. There are taxes on some gambling, but I think they are mainly paid by the operators of the scheme.
So if Keysight copes with import duties and taxes (as they no doubt would if they were giving a prize here) we would have no tax problems at all. Not sure if that makes me a specially good candidate to win??
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But, as I say, in the UK there is no tax on prizes or gifts, or indeed on lottery winnings. There are taxes on some gambling, but I think they are mainly paid by the operators of the scheme.
So if Keysight copes with import duties and taxes (as they no doubt would if they were giving a prize here) we would have no tax problems at all.
Well, the UK still is a part of the European Union, isn't it ;D ? So for sure European customs regulations apply.
We don't discuss here what happens if you get a gift inside your country but what happens when you receive a gift from outside the European union.
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It is always amusing to watch how taxation distorts markets and prizes. A couple of decades ago the company I was with was going through a reduction in market and had to sell off a lot of high end oscilloscopes, logic analyzers and the lot. At auction they brought higher than new prices, sometimes 50% higher even though the same equipment was available new in the box from the vendor. The reason was that the buyers lived in countries where the import duties on used equipment was much lower than on new equipment. They could pay a premium on the new price for used equipment, take whatever chances there were due to use and lack of warranty, and still come out ahead of buying new. I am sure that kind of activity was not what the lawmakers envisioned when they were passing these various tariffs.
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FWIW I don't think the competition should be fair!
You should give the stuff away to the most deserving causes. A person who already has 20 scopes and a room full of test gear doesn't deserve it, they have enough junk already...
Spare a thought for anybody with 20 scopes that won this prize.....wouldn't they put their now surplus scopes on eBay and keep the 1G one? Wouldn't you?
There's 20 sopes on the market that didn't have to fund the new one and hopefully the asking price reflects that. :-+
Everybody wins.
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The one thing we enjoy in Australia is the absence of any taxes on what is described as a 'windfall'.
A $15,000 Keysight scope, a car or even $50 million on a lottery win ... and the government takes nothing. Mind you, put that $50 million in an investment and they'll be hot on your heels for tax on any income generated as well as capital gains tax.
We do have to face import taxes - and I would hope that being in Australia, I'd be collecting the prize (wishful thinking) in person from an Aussie dealer - otherwise this becomes a liability for me too.
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Spare a thought for anybody with 20 scopes that won this prize.....wouldn't they put their now surplus scopes on eBay ....?
I would think not - and my reasoning rests on why they accumulated 20 scopes in the first place.........
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Spare a thought for anybody with 20 scopes that won this prize.....wouldn't they put their now surplus scopes on eBay ....?
I would think not - and my reasoning rests on why they accumulated 20 scopes in the first place.........
Hi
One small comment ...
One of the reasons for having a lot of scopes is the nonsense involved in shipping one and having a chance of it arriving intact.
Take a scope to your local pack and ship. You get a question like "do you think it needs a layer of bubble wrap or not? It fits real tight in our biggest box ...it's not going anywhere". Yes you can guess what the scope looks like on the other end when packed with absolutely no protection at all. It's also hilarious to listen to the insurance guy tell you how it is not covered due to "bad packing" ... odd that their own pack outfit packed it that way.
So now try to do it yourself. First you need a REALY big box with sturdy construction. The average wine and beer boxes lying all over the floor will not cut it. Once you find a source for those, order up a minimum quantity (they will not sell you just one). Now you have the box and you try to wrap things up with bubble wrap. Ship it off. Wait a bit. In comes an email about this or that corner getting pronged in shipping. Grrrrr .....
Off to do some more shopping. Foam in place seems like a good thing. Try some of the little bags .. not so much. Off to get a full blown foam in place machine (yikes !!!). So over to the yellow pages we go. Start calling around looking for somebody with a machine. Yup, found one. It's only a 2 hour drive over and back.
Yes it goes on like this for a while.
===========================
If one *won* a scope then you might have a box that one could be shipped in. Of course it would need to be a big / fancy /heavy scope for the box to be useful. That's ok ... :)
Bob (The guy with the poor aching back ...)
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That's probably a much better reason for not putting them on eBay.
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here it would be about 60% in taxes, soooo no thank you...
Hi
Where I live, it would be a lot more today than it was ... errr ... 50+ years ago ...
Bob
yeah I know...it pretty much sux over here...
Sorry Roberto, I know exactly why you feel that way. I did warn you though you would be paying, but I really did not think you would have to pay so much for that.
I di end up paying almost half the cost as duties here though, so you are not alone, the taxman always wants a cut.
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I would expect that Keysight would take responsibility for any costs of importing the scope to their local office. I don't know if any countries tax gifts in kind, as opposed to money prizes, but mine doesn't!
+1
Unless they do, it's not a prize they offer but a liability. :wtf:
I don't think they would be that generous. In their own contest/giveaway that was posted in another thread the rules explicitly state that the winner is responsible for any import duties, taxes, etc.
So it could be a real issue when you are suddenly liable for a few hundreds/thousands bucks on such a gift.
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For anyone in the UK wondering about tax implications, I'm in the UK and have only ever won one significant competition prize - a 3D printer worth about £1000 from Instructables. There's no direct liability on prizes in the UK but I did have to pay 20% VAT, etc. just as if I'd bought it. I wasn't given an option to have it sent from a UK retailer or anything like that. Made me glad I didn't win the £40,000 first prize!
I'll be entering, but I suggest that anyone who does considers it to be "80% off" (or however it works out for you) rather than free. If you wouldn't make use of it, would sell it or already have something similar - just do the right thing and don't enter.
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For me that would work out at around $5k, pretty high price to pay up front.
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So now try to do it yourself. First you need a REALY big box with sturdy construction. The average wine and beer boxes lying all over the floor will not cut it. Once you find a source for those, order up a minimum quantity (they will not sell you just one). Now you have the box and you try to wrap things up with bubble wrap. Ship it off. Wait a bit. In comes an email about this or that corner getting pronged in shipping. Grrrrr .....
I recommend removalist cartons, they are double layered corrugated cardboard and close on indestructible. My post office haven't managed to destroy one yet.
Easily obtainable cheaply, even if you only need one.
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So now try to do it yourself. First you need a REALY big box with sturdy construction. The average wine and beer boxes lying all over the floor will not cut it. Once you find a source for those, order up a minimum quantity (they will not sell you just one). Now you have the box and you try to wrap things up with bubble wrap. Ship it off. Wait a bit. In comes an email about this or that corner getting pronged in shipping. Grrrrr .....
I recommend removalist cartons, they are double layered corrugated cardboard and close on indestructible. My post office haven't managed to destroy one yet.
Easily obtainable cheaply, even if you only need one.
Hi
Ok so now we have a "two countries separated by a common language" issue. :)
From what I can see on Google "removalist carton" = "moving box".
The ones that they sell over here (at least the ones I have bought) are mighty flimsy. The great big ones are pretty sturdy and are priced to match. They are the ones I was referring to in the "minimum order" part of the story. They want to sell you more than one at a them when they ship them to you. Can't find a store that sells them. The ones the local moving companies have for sale on the floor are crap.
... or did I get the translation wrong :) ?
Bob
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But, as I say, in the UK there is no tax on prizes or gifts, or indeed on lottery winnings. There are taxes on some gambling, but I think they are mainly paid by the operators of the scheme.
So if Keysight copes with import duties and taxes (as they no doubt would if they were giving a prize here) we would have no tax problems at all.
Only gifts under the value of £36 are not taxed on import in the UK. So it would be taxed.
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here it would be about 60% in taxes, soooo no thank you...
Hi
Where I live, it would be a lot more today than it was ... errr ... 50+ years ago ...
Bob
yeah I know...it pretty much sux over here...
Sorry Roberto, I know exactly why you feel that way. I did warn you though you would be paying, but I really did not think you would have to pay so much for that.
I di end up paying almost half the cost as duties here though, so you are not alone, the taxman always wants a cut.
hey Sean, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about that, I paid much less than a half arsed multimeter would cost here, and I'm very gratefull really :)
but a scope at that price would be to much for me "if" I won it, and if I can't keep it I would prefer somebody else get it to use and enjoy it.
oh and if the others are curious what it was, I got a Digitek DT-2843R multimeter from Sean :)
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In accordance with local laws, if the selected entrant is a Canadian or South African resident, that entrant will be required to answer a mathematical skill testing question, without assistance of any kind (whether mechanical or otherwise), within the time frame provided above.
:wtf:
I wonder what sort of "mechanical" something can help with math skill testing. An abacus?
13M Views... BAM!
<youtube link>
Sad. >600 million views and 3.5 million subscribers for wrecking electronics.
A couple of years ago my local chemist (a reasonably large one) had a competition like that
Chemist?
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Why not use gleam.io like many other Youtubers?
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I applaud your well considered desire to reduce the judging scheme. One would *never* want to overwork the judges. I would only propose one or two *minor* adjustments ... (as in hold on to your wallet ....).
Those who already have many scopes are (obviously 8)) the most experienced in their care and feeding. Rather than a messy public debate over who gets what (which would only lead to acrimony between members), simply send all the entries to me and I'll let you know who won :) :)
I'm only thinking of making things easier of course.
Bob (soon to have "address unknown" as his forwarding address ...)
Speaking of distributed voting schemes where the judges and entrants are one and the same -- it's an interesting problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c0CoXFApnM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c0CoXFApnM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bplncn4xC74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bplncn4xC74)
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I think you should consider entries from all of the sites because not everybody uses the forum or has a YouTube channel or Facebook account.
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My suggestion:
1. Pick Randomly on active member (fair)
2. The winner have to go to Dave Lab and interviewed (Effort is important)
3. If the winner didn't have money to buy ticket, he/she will not able to pay the tax. So pick another one
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Surely if the winner is in the EU wouldn't Keysight ship the scope from a European office?
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When I bought a scope from the 'agilentused' Ebay site, it shipped direct from the factory in Malaysia, with all duties and taxes already paid (by me, of course).
2. The winner have to go to Dave Lab and interviewed (Effort is important)
3. If the winner didn't have money to buy ticket, he/she will not able to pay the tax. So pick another one
Just a little unfair on the majority of readers who aren't in Australia...? We do have video conferencing here in Europe!
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For exposure reasons, how about creating two meaningful twitter hashtags ..to make it trend.
To enter giveaway,
1. post a suggestion for who to give it to (reference a url or twitter account etc) with hashtag #givekeysight (Entries referring to self (the account that posts) disqualify.
and/or
2. post a tagline on why you treasure keysight with tag #keysight4life These posts are for entering self. Counts as 2 entries if you repeat message in an image of yourself with legible message (think cause based messages). Multiple nonrepeating entries okay.
Then, giving it is a matter of copying a list, using a random number generator to pick an entry to vet, repeat as needed.
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What if you don't go anywhere near Twitter?
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omg , i already have the space for the scope on my desk , lets go shall we :0)
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The one bad thing with giveaways is that one person is happy (2 in this case) and from the rest, half form an angy mob and the other half accept it... I hope ill be in the number one spot- but i know illl be in the half that accepts it....
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What if you don't go anywhere near Twitter?
You won't do it for a chance at getting it or giving it to a place or person you think should have it?
The exposure for Keysight may just guarantee more of these in the future...
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Twitter promos tend to be epic fails when done by corporations; often they require a link back to their website which tends to kill the signal. Using twitter and not requiring a link, Keysight gets promotion from indirect sources. The messages trend instead of getting demoted as social networking spam.
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The taxes I'll have to pay for a $15K-worth-scope are, by themselves, higher than the cost of a new scope that's quite enough for my needs. That's sad for all kinds of reasons actually :)
So I'll stick to my second-hand HP 54501A... it's so heavy I can't move it from my workbench anyway ;D
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Hrm. The #giveKeysight hashtag wouldn't look right to nonparticipants.. maybe #keysight4u instead.
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You could go "old-school" and have people send in a postcard and then you could draw from a box/barrel/bag.
EEVBlog Episode#5723 --- Mailbag June 23, 2036.... Dave opens yet another contest postcard that has been sitting on the shelf for 20 years and he just has not got around to opening. :)
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Twitter promos tend to be epic fails when done by corporations; often they require a link back to their website which tends to kill the signal. Using twitter and not requiring a link, Keysight gets promotion from indirect sources. The messages trend instead of getting demoted as social networking spam.
Boo. No twitter please! :--
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I think there's a case for requiring some kind of reason that you need it (I think I could take a really good stab at it), though if its a giveaway that is meant to go to whoever says "gimme" then I think a simple forum post the way you've done it in the past is fine. Besides, if its user voting, nobody is going to read X number of personal stories where X is the number of entrants, so you'd get skewed voting for people on first and last pages where people in the middle are forgotten or unseen. I doubt you want to have to read thousands of stories for the giveaway, as cool as some of them may be.
As for not getting the viewers on Youtube, as someone who watches your videos on youtube I have to say that if someone cant even be asked to make a forum account and ask just a couple questions provide a couple comments, why should they get a $15k scope that is intended for members of that community? In addition, trying to get youtube users gets really hairy for avoiding duplicates. Just my two cents though.
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Rs20's links to the numberphile Telescope Time videos are actually a really good idea if you want people to justify usage or make a case for themselves. If that's an option I'd certainly change my vote to that. A little more complex to administer but I'd be on board for that.
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FYI regarding taxes, we had a winner of the "Dream Bench" giveaway donate the equipment they won to the local makerspace. That way, he still had access to the equipment, but the donation value = the prize value, so he owed no taxes.
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"how to do giveaways" on google gave me Rafflecopter. It looks like they have free services to an extent.
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Hey Dave,
Thanks for this giveaway, well, the way I look at it is as follows: I know a lot of people are thinking of excluding people with not many posts on the forum such as myself (since some could be 1-post drones for the giveaway) however, there are many of us out there that are pretty active on YouTube comments (like myself). While I might not have signed up for the EEVBlog forum prior to this, I've been pretty much a very active viewer and commenter on YouTube.
With that said, I think the draw should be fairer than that. Since these scopes are VERY expensive, I wouldn't want to give them to somebody who wouldn't have any use for them, it would be such a waste! So perhaps some form of a minimal occupational or academic (degrees) standard should be in place? I have no idea what would be the best way to implement this but I would hate to see a 15K scope wasted on someone who'd never use it!
One way is to have people "tweet" a specific hashtag, and then use a program (or write one) that would filter / pull tweets by Hashtag, then simply randomize a number and pick a winner. You can even filter duplicates so you only count people once no matter how many times they tweet at you. Additionally, the Twitter API allows you to filter by date posted. Therefore, you can make a 48 hour window for people to tweet at you or so, this way people don't spam you forever with the giveaway hashtag.
I'd also be OK with a raffle-style giveaway! $1 tickets, then give the lump-sum to charity or something cool like that (I know a lot of people would disagree with this, but it could be a win-win thing).
All in all, my main concern is that the expensive high-end scopes ending up wasted on someone who's never going to use them, or someone who's just gonna turn around and list them on eBay upon winning.
I hope you have some update for us soon! And hey, thank you so much for this great opportunity! As an electrical and embedded software engineer myself, I know I could REALLY use a high-end scope at home! I mess a lot with Raspberry Pi's, FPGA's and other small computers and a high-end scope would tremendously improve my process!
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All in all, my main concern is that the expensive high-end scopes ending up wasted on someone who's never going to use them, or someone who's just gonna turn around and list them on eBay upon winning.
The problem, no matter how you look at this, there basically is no real easy way to ensure the scope goes to someone who "really needs it/can use it" etc.
I just don't see how it's really possible.
The Hashtag thing is bad idea because it means that anyone can enter and will almost certainly spam the system some how. At least on the forum people can bee weeded out based on their previous contribution.
And the thing about the forum is that those people have contributed to "the community". No offence intended to loyal Youtube follows/commenters, but it's a fairly safe thing to say that Youtube commenters overwhelmingly do not contribute to community discussions that are searchable like they are on the forum.
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As for not getting the viewers on Youtube, as someone who watches your videos on youtube I have to say that if someone cant even be asked to make a forum account and ask just a couple questions provide a couple comments, why should they get a $15k scope that is intended for members of that community?
My thoughts exactly.
And, somewhat selfishly, I have to get something out of this too, and that "something" can be enticing people to get involved in the forum.
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All in all, my main concern is that the expensive high-end scopes ending up wasted on someone who's never going to use them, or someone who's just gonna turn around and list them on eBay upon winning.
The problem, no matter how you look at this, there basically is no real easy way to ensure the scope goes to someone who "really needs it/can use it" etc.
I just don't see how it's really possible.
The Hashtag thing is bad idea because it means that anyone can enter and will almost certainly spam the system some how. At least on the forum people can bee weeded out based on their previous contribution.
And the thing about the forum is that those people have contributed to "the community". No offence intended to loyal Youtube follows/commenters, but it's a fairly safe thing to say that Youtube commenters overwhelmingly do not contribute to community discussions that are searchable like they are on the forum.
I see what you mean there, yeah I forgot that you can't track twitter followers to forum usernames. Maybe they can tweet their username at you? And once a winner is picked you can verify their forum username?
Yeah, I have no problem with a set of rules to be "considered" in a draw or, like I said above, even a raffle-style giveaway would be perfectly fine.
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..
The Hashtag thing is bad idea because it means that anyone can enter and will almost certainly spam the system some how. At least on the forum people can bee weeded out based on their previous contribution.
And the thing about the forum is that those people have contributed to "the community". No offence intended to loyal Youtube follows/commenters, but it's a fairly safe thing to say that Youtube commenters overwhelmingly do not contribute to community discussions that are searchable like they are on the forum.
I see what you mean there, yeah I forgot that you can't track twitter followers to forum usernames. Maybe they can tweet their username at you? And once a winner is picked you can verify their forum username?
The forum profile has a place to put Twitter ID. So they can be linked..
Why apply an arbitrary qualification, such as requiring a degree or certificate? Many smart people in electricity don't have a traditional education, are disadvantaged because of it, and in fact may be more in need of a tool like this.
And LOL about using forum posts as a qualifier.. Having already been accused of being a troll, It seems I could just be wasting time here. ;-)
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..
The Hashtag thing is bad idea because it means that anyone can enter and will almost certainly spam the system some how. At least on the forum people can bee weeded out based on their previous contribution.
And the thing about the forum is that those people have contributed to "the community". No offence intended to loyal Youtube follows/commenters, but it's a fairly safe thing to say that Youtube commenters overwhelmingly do not contribute to community discussions that are searchable like they are on the forum.
I see what you mean there, yeah I forgot that you can't track twitter followers to forum usernames. Maybe they can tweet their username at you? And once a winner is picked you can verify their forum username?
The forum profile has a place to put Twitter ID. So they can be linked..
Why apply an arbitrary qualification, such as requiring a degree or certificate? Many smart people in electricity don't have a traditional education, are disadvantaged because of it, and in fact may be more in need of a tool like this.
And LOL about using forum posts as a qualifier.. Having already been accused of being a troll, It seems I could just be wasting time here. ;-)
I don't know, haha, I was just thinking of a method to not "waste" an expensive scope on someone who wouldn't otherwise know how to use it or utilize it. I understand the forum contribution qualifier completely, I just think it singles out a lot of Dave's followers and avid YT watchers. But I completely understand if the giveaway is geared towards contributors only.
That's why I'd lean towards a raffle-style giveaway. $1 buys you a ticket, plain and simple, then the money generated from the raffle can be given away to a charity or donated to Dave's lab!
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I hate suggesting this because it probably would ensure I wouldn't end up with one...
But, I have seen giveaways like this done by the membership voting on the best submission describing the proposed use for the item being given away.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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Forgive me for imagine how much cost for winning...Price: 16K oscilloscope(price list)
In My country 25% Tax = $4K + shipping.. :palm:
Its not winning.. Its buy High End Oscilloscope with huge discount...
So how much your Taxes will hit you if your win???
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Forgive me for imagine how much cost for winning...Price: 16K oscilloscope(price list)
In My country 25% Tax = $4K + shipping.. :palm:
Its not winning.. Its buy High End Oscilloscope with huge discount...
So how much your Taxes will hit you if your win???
~NZ$2300 with our 15% GST plus import processing costs. :(
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A giveaway is essentially a lottery, so I assume the normal import taxes (vat, etc...) dont apply. (???)
Dave should consult an expert to ensure that the declaration for shipping is correct and he doesn't get any problems with the tax office...
Greetings
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A giveaway is essentially a lottery, so I assume the normal import taxes (vat, etc...) dont apply. (???)
Dave should consult an expert to ensure that the declaration for shipping is correct and he doesn't get any problems with the tax office...
Greetings
It depend the country where you live.. Mine have 25% tax from gift/lottery/....
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It depend the country where you live.. Mine have 25% tax from gift/lottery/....
My country has 35% on money prizes, but not on physical prizes. It would be very stupid if you would win a car and have to pay 1/3rd to get it.
But you would have to declare it as income for the tax filing.
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I see what you mean there, yeah I forgot that you can't track twitter followers to forum usernames. Maybe they can tweet their username at you? And once a winner is picked you can verify their forum username?
It will not involve twitter in any way.
You're either an active forum member or you aren't, just like previous giveaways.
The problem everyone seems to have is that the prize is "too good", and I share that concern, but I'm not sure what can be done about this.
Although Keysight don't really care who ends up with it or what they do with it, they perhaps might have an issue with me selling it and buying 10 Rigol's to give away! ;D
Perhaps I should have just asked for money to do the promo video and bought 10 cheaper scopes myself :-\
Actually, the country import tax thing might turn out to be real nightmare for the winner, and me, it's a real problem.
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Actually, the country import tax thing might turn out to be real nightmare for the winner, and me, it's a real problem.
Local pickup only. Intercontinental tickets are cheaper than import taxes. Put it in your carry on and visit Australia while you are at it!
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I wonder if the problem doesn't solve itself, in a way.
Once it's made clear that at the bottom line this is not a "free scope" but a "high-end scope at a low cost", the people who will still choose to enter the raffle are probably those who know what they are doing and will put this scope to good use.
Aussies won't have to pay huge import taxes, but they deserve a break, being upside down and all :)
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Aussies won't have to pay huge import taxes, but they deserve a break, being upside down and all :)
Thank you for the acknowledgement. :-+
Fact is, we've been copping the rough end of the pineapple on a whole range of products for decades. I (and I'm sure many other Aussies) see some of the stuff available in the USA, especially second hand, and just sink in our chair. We look at the local price tags and cringe.
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Once it's made clear that at the bottom line this is not a "free scope" but a "high-end scope at a low cost", the people who will still choose to enter the raffle are probably those who know what they are doing and will put this scope to good use.
That won't stop anyone entering!
Aussies won't have to pay huge import taxes, but they deserve a break, being upside down and all :)
The scopes are being shipped to me at zero cost via a magic carpet. I will be the legal owner of them. So shipping to someone in Oz isn't going to be a problem. It's overseas where the problems come in. I might actually have to rule out Germany completely for well known reasons. In fact, the EU is generally not great.
In fact given that aussies can't enter the Keysight giveaway, my one will be their only chance.
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In fact given that aussies can't enter the Keysight giveaway, my one will be their only chance.
An observation that has not escaped me ... and I'm sure many other Aussies.
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That won't stop anyone entering!
It had already stopped me...
Fact is, we've been copping the rough end of the pineapple
Heh, that's a useful expression I wasn't familiar with :)
The world's a global village in terms of communications, but regarding physical products... I can assure you you're not alone in cringing at local prices!
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I've found that has become much more apparent to me since joining this forum.
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How about the best begging letter incorporating a nice legal indemnification of all import duties? :-+
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It's overseas where the problems come in. I might actually have to rule out Germany completely for well known reasons. In fact, the EU is generally not great.
I may be called stupid or blinded (or both), but what are those reasons?
Besides I just called the german Zoll (Import office) in Frankfurt on Main and asked for the regulations that apply in this case.
They told me, that there isn't a problem importing it, you just have to keep in mind that you have to pay 19% taxes.
Since you as the sender don't have to pay the taxes my guess is that shiping to german wouldn't be that huge of a problem, but maybe I'm missing something?
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Are there other countries/regions that are like Hong Kong where we don't really have to pay any duty or tax to receive or bring stuff in? Here I believe we are only required to pay duty for a few categories including liquors and tobacco, and maybe cars (but only when you want to register and drive on the roads). Pretty much everything else is tax free. No intention for me to enter this giveaway though as I honestly won't have a need or even know how to properly use such a high end scope :)
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Since you as the sender don't have to pay the taxes my guess is that shiping to german wouldn't be that huge of a problem, but maybe I'm missing something?
I have a very long and sorry history of shipping uCurrent's to Germany. Huge number of returns, most get stuck in customs, some for months. It's horrible. Germany has the reputation of one of the worst customs in the world.
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Since you as the sender don't have to pay the taxes my guess is that shiping to german wouldn't be that huge of a problem, but maybe I'm missing something?
I have a very long and sorry history of shipping uCurrent's to Germany. Huge number of returns, most get stuck in customs, some for months. It's horrible. Germany has the reputation of one of the worst customs in the world.
As I heard from some other people who already ordered overseas, the CE mark is very important for german custom offices. Same thing happened to that Ouya console some time ago.
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I don't think the prize is too good. Giving away oscilloscopes of this caliber generates a huge signal in terms of networking whether it be via social media or YouTube or whatever. More so than giving away more of the low-end scopes. That means generating just as much publicity for you (@DaveJ) as it does for Keysight, and will be healthy for attracting more channel viewers and forum users, even if some of them don't end up staying.
Also you won't have to ship a bunch of smaller scopes to a bunch of different people, though you're probably battle-hardened after shipping the uCurrents, heh.
Edit: I also really want a shot at one of these. So I'm not exactly a disinterested/unbiased party. ;D
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The scopes are being shipped to me at zero cost via a magic carpet. I will be the legal owner of them. So shipping to someone in Oz isn't going to be a problem. It's overseas where the problems come in.
Would it not make more sense for Agilent to ship it through their dealer network to the winners? It would reduce the taxes on import problem to whatever taxes the winners country has for prize winning, if any and if they declare it.
It would also save you the headache, especially if the winner has to reject the delivery and scope starts to play international ping pong.
Disclaimer: I have no interest in this solution: I will be in Australia for a couple of weeks this year, so can collect in person.
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The scopes are being shipped to me at zero cost via a magic carpet. I will be the legal owner of them. So shipping to someone in Oz isn't going to be a problem. It's overseas where the problems come in. I might actually have to rule out Germany completely for well known reasons. In fact, the EU is generally not great.
I might take a flight to Australia for a local pickup :-DD.
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I have a very long and sorry history of shipping uCurrent's to Germany. Huge number of returns, most get stuck in customs, some for months. It's horrible. Germany has the reputation of one of the worst customs in the world.
LOL. I had worse problems with Canada for many years (both in and out). I've had a simple 2nd hand camera repair held for 6 months !!! until they could
find someone who would verify the contents. Never had anything under a month ! In the end, I paid a friend to drive back and forth across the USA border
to pick-up / deliver :-) That was a few years ago .. their postal union are as bad as AUS was way back.
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I hate suggesting this because it probably would ensure I wouldn't end up with one...
But, I have seen giveaways like this done by the membership voting on the best submission describing the proposed use for the item being given away.
For things of minimal value that works - a Raspberry Pi kit, a DMM, or a Soldering station. But I worry that with a $$$$ item, the crowd will hound the person out of town unless the winner's hobby project delivers to their satisfaction - and you can't please everybody all the time. Some will want build logs, and to get "their money's worth" to see that it is being used properly.
Is somebody who spends his or her spare time attempting to build an atomic force microscope from a piezo disks and a DVD laser assembly any less worthy than somebody who services transceivers for a living? Is an old hand who already has a bench of kit more worthy than a novice who is just starting out?
If somebody wins it, then sells it straight away then I can't fault them for that. It happens all the time with spot prizes at cycling events... you find them on sale the following day, as the winner already has a bike that they love and the prize provides minimal utility to them.
What really matters is the happiness of the person who wins - if they are chuffed then that is the best you can wish for! If it becomes a burden for them, then the giveaway has been done wrong.
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IMO i think its better to categorize the giveaway and make criteria for every category. Instead of giving away a "pricey" scope without an assurance if the winner is worthy or not, why not ask Keysight for 3 different class of scopes to be given away for each category. The categories would be for newbies/start-ups, mid-level, and expert category with different criterias. In such way someone wins an adequate scope for his/her level of applications. Say, a 100MHz for a noob, a 500Mhz for mid-level, and >500Mhz for an expert/professional category. Just an opinion though. I'm in for the noob category :-+
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I see what you mean there, yeah I forgot that you can't track twitter followers to forum usernames. Maybe they can tweet their username at you? And once a winner is picked you can verify their forum username?
It will not involve twitter in any way.
You're either an active forum member or you aren't, just like previous giveaways.
The problem everyone seems to have is that the prize is "too good", and I share that concern, but I'm not sure what can be done about this.
Although Keysight don't really care who ends up with it or what they do with it, they perhaps might have an issue with me selling it and buying 10 Rigol's to give away! ;D
Perhaps I should have just asked for money to do the promo video and bought 10 cheaper scopes myself :-\
Actually, the country import tax thing might turn out to be real nightmare for the winner, and me, it's a real problem.
I really think you should just make a deceleration that says "by entering this giveaway, you agree to pay your country's import taxes / fees, etc. etc." and make sure the winner understands what they are getting into prior to shipping it to them. I for one, wouldn't mind at all paying a couple of grands to import it to the US (I'm not sure of our import fees on such items) but whatever it is, it would be worth it!
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Looking forward to this! Starving student spends all his money on beer so he can't afford a scope...if only I had the slightest chance...
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Flying to Australia and picking up the scope would actually work out cheaper, though to satisfy Customs this side i would have to make the flight with another oscilloscope so that I left declaring an oscilloscope, and came back with an oscilloscope. One cheap GWInstek later in carry on luggage and I will be sorted, and the flight is only R20 000 return ( and 18 hours one way) and I only hope the HP/Agilent/keysight scope fits in the same carry bag with it being able to close...
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Well, regarding the notion of worthyness...
If you are an expert/professional working day in day out with hf, you probably have such a scope at work.
But not doing this for a living, it might open a new field of electronics for the winner, wheather he is a noob, a hobbyist, a professional outside the hf field...
Ultimately you just have to hope this is the case. There is just no way to ensure this, no matter how you restrict the contest.
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I am baffled by all the interest in choosing a 'Worthy' winner. The most fair way to do it is have a sign up thread somewhere. Draw a name. Announce the winner. If they pay the taxes/shipping the get it. If they don't/can't pay the taxes go to number 2, 3, 4 in the drawing.
Turning it into a worthiness contest is silly. Why does it matter what happens to the scope after the giveaway? Is it less sour grapes if you see it being put to 'good use' whatever that may be?
Make it a drawing and keep it simple. Keysight wants and will get conversation about their products so they win. If it goes up on eBay, someone gets some cash and the buyer gets a sweet scope.
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I am baffled by all the interest in choosing a 'Worthy' winner. The most fair way to do it is have a sign up thread somewhere. Draw a name. Announce the winner. If they pay the taxes/shipping the get it. If they don't/can't pay the taxes go to number 2, 3, 4 in the drawing.
Turning it into a worthiness contest is silly. Why does it matter what happens to the scope after the giveaway? Is it less sour grapes if you see it being put to 'good use' whatever that may be?
Make it a drawing and keep it simple. Keysight wants and will get conversation about their products so they win. If it goes up on eBay, someone gets some cash and the buyer gets a sweet scope.
+1
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I am baffled by all the interest in choosing a 'Worthy' winner. The most fair way to do it is have a sign up thread somewhere. Draw a name. Announce the winner. If they pay the taxes/shipping the get it. If they don't/can't pay the taxes go to number 2, 3, 4 in the drawing.
Turning it into a worthiness contest is silly. Why does it matter what happens to the scope after the giveaway? Is it less sour grapes if you see it being put to 'good use' whatever that may be?
Make it a drawing and keep it simple. Keysight wants and will get conversation about their products so they win. If it goes up on eBay, someone gets some cash and the buyer gets a sweet scope.
+1
+2 :-+
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I am baffled by all the interest in choosing a 'Worthy' winner. The most fair way to do it is have a sign up thread somewhere. Draw a name. Announce the winner. If they pay the taxes/shipping the get it. If they don't/can't pay the taxes go to number 2, 3, 4 in the drawing.
Turning it into a worthiness contest is silly. Why does it matter what happens to the scope after the giveaway? Is it less sour grapes if you see it being put to 'good use' whatever that may be?
Make it a drawing and keep it simple. Keysight wants and will get conversation about their products so they win. If it goes up on eBay, someone gets some cash and the buyer gets a sweet scope.
+1
+2 :-+
+1 (=4)
And secondly; I know why the price of 'scopes goes up with bandwidth. But I don't agree that the worthiness and sophistication of EE work goes up with bandwidth!
(DOI - doing some work at about 5MHz which would be immensely helped by a scope with versatile signal processing.)
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We are not worthy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0&feature=youtu.be)
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I'm not going to quote anyone because there are too many duplicate responses to quote. Not word for word but in attitude? I think anyone judging someone else as not being worthy of, or incapable of, using an expensive piece of test equipment like this is kind of snobbish and displays an elitist mentality. Maybe you are right. A newbie that wins a beautiful machine may very well just let it collect dust because they have no idea how to make use of the advanced features of said piece of equipment. For me, I would hope that if I did not win it, the one that does will maybe ask questions about how to use those advanced features so that I might actually get a chance to share the little bit of knowledge I have to share at this point in time. With time and someone willing to help by sharing knowledge, anyone can learn to use a 15k scope just like anyone else here has learned to use one. Would I love to have something like this? Absofreakinlutely! Can I use it correctly right now? Absofreakinlutely NOT. But I would damn sure try to learn how. I love to learn and if and when I run into something I do not know or understand, it will grate at my nerves until I figure it out. I was told a very long time ago by an engineer that I became good friends with, "Never assume anything. When you assume you make an ASS of U and ME". No I'm not real old but in my 46+ years I have come to realize that this is one of the truest statements ever made!
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I'm not going to quote anyone because there are too many duplicate responses to quote. Not word for word but in attitude? I think anyone judging someone else as not being worthy of, or incapable of, using an expensive piece of test equipment like this is kind of snobbish and displays an elitist mentality. Maybe you are right. A newbie that wins a beautiful machine may very well just let it collect dust because they have no idea how to make use of the advanced features of said piece of equipment. For me, I would hope that if I did not win it, the one that does will maybe ask questions about how to use those advanced features so that I might actually get a chance to share the little bit of knowledge I have to share at this point in time. With time and someone willing to help by sharing knowledge, anyone can learn to use a 15k scope just like anyone else here has learned to use one. Would I love to have something like this? Absofreakinlutely! Can I use it correctly right now? Absofreakinlutely NOT. But I would damn sure try to learn how. I love to learn and if and when I run into something I do not know or understand, it will grate at my nerves until I figure it out. I was told a very long time ago by an engineer that I became good friends with, "Never assume anything. When you assume you make an ASS of U and ME". No I'm not real old but in my 46+ years I have come to realize that this is one of the truest statements ever made!
Well said!!
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I'm not going to quote anyone because there are too many duplicate responses to quote. Not word for word but in attitude? I think anyone judging someone else as not being worthy of, or incapable of, using an expensive piece of test equipment like this is kind of snobbish and displays an elitist mentality. Maybe you are right. A newbie that wins a beautiful machine may very well just let it collect dust because they have no idea how to make use of the advanced features of said piece of equipment. For me, I would hope that if I did not win it, the one that does will maybe ask questions about how to use those advanced features so that I might actually get a chance to share the little bit of knowledge I have to share at this point in time. With time and someone willing to help by sharing knowledge, anyone can learn to use a 15k scope just like anyone else here has learned to use one. Would I love to have something like this? Absofreakinlutely! Can I use it correctly right now? Absofreakinlutely NOT. But I would damn sure try to learn how. I love to learn and if and when I run into something I do not know or understand, it will grate at my nerves until I figure it out. I was told a very long time ago by an engineer that I became good friends with, "Never assume anything. When you assume you make an ASS of U and ME". No I'm not real old but in my 46+ years I have come to realize that this is one of the truest statements ever made!
:-+...
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I'm not going to quote anyone because there are too many duplicate responses to quote. Not word for word but in attitude? I think anyone judging someone else as not being worthy of, or incapable of, using an expensive piece of test equipment like this is kind of snobbish and displays an elitist mentality. Maybe you are right. A newbie that wins a beautiful machine may very well just let it collect dust because they have no idea how to make use of the advanced features of said piece of equipment. For me, I would hope that if I did not win it, the one that does will maybe ask questions about how to use those advanced features so that I might actually get a chance to share the little bit of knowledge I have to share at this point in time. With time and someone willing to help by sharing knowledge, anyone can learn to use a 15k scope just like anyone else here has learned to use one. Would I love to have something like this? Absofreakinlutely! Can I use it correctly right now? Absofreakinlutely NOT. But I would damn sure try to learn how. I love to learn and if and when I run into something I do not know or understand, it will grate at my nerves until I figure it out. I was told a very long time ago by an engineer that I became good friends with, "Never assume anything. When you assume you make an ASS of U and ME". No I'm not real old but in my 46+ years I have come to realize that this is one of the truest statements ever made!
Well......I assume you are right. :-DD
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Sadly I ASSme all the time. But I am pretty much an ass so I expect it :-\.
Like most who have low post counts, we want there to be no minimum - Those who have high post counts want there to be a high minimum.
Personally I just want someone who will actually use it to get it. Maybe the person who wins the giveaway can give their current scope to someone
on the forum who has very little equipment (struggling student?) at Dave's discretion. That way the love gets distributed around the EEVBlog :o
Dave should toss 1 or two of those multimeters (from last post) into the giveaway assuming (oops) he has one or two as comps from the Manufacturer.
Chris
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How do I enter the giveaway?
I have no problem paying taxes, but in the United States, I don't think there is any.
I don't mind paying shipping either.
:-+
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Like most who have low post counts, we want there to be no minimum - Those who have high post counts want there to be a high minimum.
I think the minimum is in the single digits, so you would have to have just made the account to not qualify. It's only to root out automated accounts and people gaming the system, not to cater to the most active forum members. :-+
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Like most who have low post counts, we want there to be no minimum - Those who have high post counts want there to be a high minimum.
I think the minimum is in the single digits, so you would have to have just made the account to not qualify. It's only to root out automated accounts and people gaming the system, not to cater to the most active forum members. :-+
The only thing I've said so far is you have to be an active member. What that active means, I don't know yet, but the winner will be checked live on air. And yeah, single digit posts likely won't cut the mustard. Nor will a few dozen one liners to get your numbers up.
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If someone winning but didn't have money to pay tax, it will be great if the winner could give the price to the second(alternative) winner with small compensation. (e.g the second winner will have to send $xxx prices to the original winner).
Pros:
1. More people will enter the giveaway
2. The winner will not worry about necessary money to pay the tax
3. There be more chance the right people will get the scope (one who needed it and have a spare money)
Cons:
1. Maybe it will be to much hassle
2. Dave will have to draw/ decide second/third/... winner
IMHO, better end with cheap Hantek USB scope, than half year salary gone....(yes..$4K is more than 6 month salary for me :-\ [size=78%] )[/size]
And if anybody say the winner could just sell the scope, remember not every country are the same.. it not so easy to sell $16K scope. At least in here.
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I am in critical business need of a new scope and just happen to be most likely to buy a 4000 or 6000 Keysight 1Ghz. REALLY hoping to get a break on this, otherwise, financing is my only option.
Fingers crossed, it's fun to dream a little.
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Instead of giving away a "pricey" scope without an assurance if the winner is worthy or not, why not ask Keysight for 3 different class of scopes to be given away for each category.
I just listened to this weeks AmpHour podcast and apparently the scopes have already been shipped.
It seems like there is consensus that for almost everyone a 1 GHz scope is overkill. So here's an idea: Maybe Dave should ask that those entering the contest who cannot justify regular need of that bandwidth, agree to sell the scope and replace it with a number of lesser scopes - keeping one and giving away the others to the next contestant(s) drawn from the list. This would be unenforcable of course...other than by forum shunning of anyone who renegs on their promise.
I for one would be willing to do that if I was lucky enough to win.
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That is like asking a stranger to give away money that is rightfully theirs.
If I won a Ford Mustang, I would instantly sell it and keep the cash. I don't need or want that car. Why would anyone be compelled to give the cash value away?
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That is like asking a stranger to give away money that is rightfully theirs.
If I won a Ford Mustang, I would instantly sell it and keep the cash. I don't need or want that car. Why would anyone be compelled to give the cash value away?
It was just an idea for Dave to consider since on the AmpHour he expressed frustration about having to give away 1GHz scopes. Of course Dave can choose to do things however he wants (and I don't expect he'd do this) and no one would be compelling anyone.
Besides - it sounds like from your earlier post you're one of the few who could justify use of a 1GHz scope. :-+
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It was just an idea for Dave to consider since on the AmpHour he expressed frustration about having to give away 1GHz scopes. Of course Dave can choose to do things however he wants (and I don't expect he'd do this) and no one would be compelling anyone.
Besides - it sounds like from your earlier post you're one of the few who could justify use of a 1GHz scope. :-+
I understand the potential for frustration that is not too different from Bill Gates winning the lottery. That is a extra level of disappointment that I did not win. the origin of the prize is of course Keysight. Their cost is relatively low and the incremental cost from a low bandwidth to a high bandwidth scope is definitely small. If the winner is indeed a sharp engineer that will use it on tough projects - they would never want that person to push it off the the side or sell it because it's too low bandwidth - they want it to be used and talked about in the context of a high-ish-end application which is where $16k scopes are used. If it gets sold because the winner only needs a Rigol DS1054 for tinkering one a month - someone will still get the scope at probably a good price and become a member and fan of the Keysight family.
The cost of the giveaway on the Keysight books is in the noise floor. As an 'audience' member to the contest, I would love to see it go to good use. In reality, I wont care or follow up if I don't win it myself though.
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Responding to people saying the scope is "overkill" or otherwise too good:
Alright at this point I have to say, I really don't think 1Ghz scope is overkill. Especially for any hobbyist who is serious about the hobby and wants to generate real products to bring to market. I can imagine they said the same thing not too long ago about a 20mhz scope. A higher frequency range is also required to get a better idea of what's actually happening in your higher speed designs without the scope frontend affecting the edges you see. I mean jeez FPGA dev/demo boards are affordable for individuals and people like me are able to make higher and higher speed prototypes. What if someone comes up with a framework similar to arduino but for higher performance applications? It's not inconceivable and many (I can't be the only one) serious hobbyists are already working above 50Mhz. Also the extra features on the scope could inspire a learner to look up what they are useful for and to discover the wonderful and challenging depth of electrical engineering.
I'm excited and I hope to get one! But if I don't I won't form a mob. Management of expectations I suppose.
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It's not inconceivable and many (I can't be the only one) serious hobbyists are already working above 50Mhz
I mucked around for a short time at 1,575.42 MHz (active antenna for GPS), and have been pushing bits at 2.7Gb/s (for DisplayPort), both out of range.
A 1GHz scope would have been helpful looking for PCB issues with a SDRAM controller I had running at 100 MHz, but it is too slow for looking at some of the high speed digital signals I sometimes play with. The only affordable option for me seems to be debugging from within the design (e.g. trace buffers and virtual logic analyzers, and then looking at what is going on off-chip by inference).
The other issue is that for high speed work you have to engineer the PCB to give you high quality test points - it is not like I can probe pins on a BGA part, and 0.5mm pitch (and smaller) are soooo tiny for my bumbling hands to reliably (and safely) probe, even if I can get the probe's tip to them.
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If it goes up on eBay, someone gets some cash and the buyer gets a sweet scope.
And BTW, it will be obvious if it goes up on ebay, it will have my face on the front! ;D
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Responding to people saying the scope is "overkill" or otherwise too good:
.....
A higher frequency range is also required to get a better idea of what's actually happening in your higher speed designs without the scope frontend affecting the edges you see.
It would seem someone less experienced with working at higher frequencies might actually find better value in such a scope for this very reason. Not having to be as aware of the effects of limited bandwidth, they will not have to adjust their thinking as much. Direct reading of the scope will be more accurate - until (if) they get into higher and higher frequencies.
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And BTW, it will be obvious if it goes up on ebay, it will have my face on the front! ;D
Just on the splash screen or is it branded with your logo on the actual print? That's pretty neat either way.
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And BTW, it will be obvious if it goes up on ebay, it will have my face on the front! ;D
Just on the splash screen or is it branded with your logo on the actual print? That's pretty neat either way.
Both!
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If it goes up on eBay, someone gets some cash and the buyer gets a sweet scope.
And BTW, it will be obvious if it goes up on ebay, it will have my face on the front! ;D
Collectors edition! BTW, I will come to to pick it up in person. I have some customers there and can easily justify the trip.
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And BTW, it will be obvious if it goes up on ebay, it will have my face on the front! ;D
Just on the splash screen or is it branded with your logo on the actual print? That's pretty neat either way.
Both!
:-+
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Coool A giveaway, it will be fun to see who takes a nice good looking piece of equipment.
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I will promise you - I will take lots of nice pictures of it ..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What ..... Huh? - yawn - Oh, was I dreaming again?
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And BTW, it will be obvious if it goes up on ebay, it will have my face on the front! ;D
Just on the splash screen or is it branded with your logo on the actual print? That's pretty neat either way.
Both!
Does this also mean it will be an autographed item? :-+
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sweetness im in on a Scope, NICE...i go by shadetree for the fact all my stuff is garbage i find, and hack together, and using plenty of what you call hot snot to hold things in place. even when making props i have used hot snot for making molds of small peices that were hard to come by before.
So unless the military base i rummage though, tosses out a scope, i am too poor to afford one. But they do toss out plenty of unopend components, I found several micro controllers today still in their bags, smell like they have been at the back of the closet for years.
If i can find what i did with one peice, id like to send it to you. cant tell you what it is, as it was sopposed to be destroyed, but they just tossed it, still has a big ole CLASSIFIED sticker on it. but i figured out what it was by where it came from.
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That is awesome!
It is indeed.
They originally wanted me to promote it for free. I of course turned them down as there wasn't anything in it for me. And considering I don't do paid promotions, I bartered two scopes for my audience instead ;D
Well do not see harm in it. I don't wake up in the mornings, and go into work, and say well fellas, im gonna do it all for free today, no need to give me anything in return for my services no one else provides at my low rates. Nope, check, cash, card, money order, spare change, barter..There are 4 hungry people at home, who love their hobbies, and home. lol.
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Is dave's face locked in with DRM or is it open source so I can have a narcissus experience?
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They originally wanted me to promote it for free. I of course turned them down as there wasn't anything in it for me. And considering I don't do paid promotions, I bartered two scopes for my audience instead ;D
That's very commendable. It would be even more noble if you said "Sure. Even though there is nothing in it for me my audience will benefit. I'll be glad to participate."
I would have done that anyway in terms of tweeting it, mentioning it on the Amp Hour perhaps, just like I normally do for such things, but a specific video promoting it? I think that's a bit too far and sets a precedent where every tom dick and harry wants me to do a video promoting their contest.
But that is not exactly what is happening. You have set one aside for your Patreon followers and presumably you will benefit from the consequent increase in subscriptions. Not exactly a paid promotion but not going to leave you free from possible criticism due to appearing to have a conflict of interest.
The only criticism seems to be coming from you.
Personally I think you'd be better off doing a paid promotion and just disclosing the fact.
With hindsight I should maybe have asked for cash, and then used that cash to buy a dozen cheaper scopes.
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With hindsight I should maybe have asked for cash, and then used that cash to buy a dozen cheaper scopes.
No worries, in my opinion it is just fine as it is now, even though some people (possibly myself) will not be able to enter or win the contest. There'll be other contests addressing other contenders. I think it is amazing to be able to give away a bizarre prize like this at least once in your life.
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With hindsight I should maybe have asked for cash, and then used that cash to buy a dozen cheaper scopes.
No worries, in my opinion it is just fine as it is now, even though some people (possibly myself) will not be able to enter or win the contest. There'll be other contests addressing other contenders. I think it is amazing to be able to give away a bizarre prize like this at least once in your life.
They're pretty wonderful general purpose 'scopes, but they're not really esoteric cutting-edge 100GHz sort of stuff, are they? Much lower spec things wouldn't really be particularly impressive prizes from a company like Keysight. I think they've got it about right, and it would have looked bad (even though it wasn't!) if they'd given Dave an inferior prize to hand out.
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Did i miss something ?
Or are there 11 pages of "How NOT" to enter the contest right now ?
I seem to have missed the magic way
/Bingo
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With hindsight I should maybe have asked for cash, and then used that cash to buy a dozen cheaper scopes.
If I win, Ill donate it to you to sell to buy a dozen cheaper scopes.. :P
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I saw the teaser pic on twitter it is very cool indeed. I don't really see the problem with it being a high end piece of gear the whole point from Keysight's point of view is to show some people what a world class scope is like just giving away money would defeat the purpose.
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Like most who have low post counts, we want there to be no minimum - Those who have high post counts want there to be a high minimum.
I think the minimum is in the single digits, so you would have to have just made the account to not qualify. It's only to root out automated accounts and people gaming the system, not to cater to the most active forum members. :-+
The only thing I've said so far is you have to be an active member. What that active means, I don't know yet, but the winner will be checked live on air. And yeah, single digit posts likely won't cut the mustard. Nor will a few dozen one liners to get your numbers up.
Coolest looking scope on the planet, can't wait to enter!
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I have only one question ......
How long does the splash screen stay on for?
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I have only one question ......
How long does the splash screen stay on for?
Good question Brumby - I'll let you know when I first switch it on. :-DD
(or you can let me know when you first switch it on! :clap:)
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Deal. ;D
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Is dave's face locked in with DRM or is it open source so I can have a narcissus experience?
This is actually taking advantage of an "easter egg" on the InfiniiVision scopes. Upload any image named splashscreen.* (.jpg .png or .bmp) in the file explorer on the scope and it becomes the boot screen. Image must be 800x480 or smaller.
I have only one question ......
How long does the splash screen stay on for?
The screen stays up until the scope has finished booting up (not super long).
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Is the giveaway scope provided with any options applied, like the wavegen, segmented memory, SPI/I2C/UARTl decoding or the most interesting in my opinion, the educator training pack?
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I have a very long and sorry history of shipping uCurrent's to Germany. Huge number of returns, most get stuck in customs, some for months. It's horrible. Germany has the reputation of one of the worst customs in the world.
In my experience it depends very much on which shipping company you are using. For example if I order something from Digikey, I get it always in 2-3 days, no customs, UPS does it all for me. Of course, more expensive, if you don't have a large contract with UPS, as Digikey has. But if something is sent with USPS from the US, or other services from other countries which ends up at Deutsche Post here, there are always problems with customs and most of the time I need to send all papers for the product and PayPal receipt etc. to the customs office, even if they are in the packet. They require it in a letter glued outside of the package, and looks like they don't open the packet, if there are no papers outside |O
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Meh. I guess I'll be waiting for a DS1054Z draw for users with less than 10 posts, I'm good for it at least a year still. :-X
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Is the giveaway scope provided with any options
I believe it is 'fully loaded'.
I am sure Dave will do a detailed teardown, once the spell of the garbage room off it has died down ;-)
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Even better, no further expense required by the lucky winner!
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Even better, no further expense required by the lucky winner!
That's why I CAN'T sensibly enter the competition.
The import duties and VAT (20% rate), into the UK, and maybe other charges, would be something like (assuming item is CORRECTLY declared on custom forms) of $5000, or £3650).
If I entered the competition, and won. Dave sends it to me. I refuse to pay the £3650. It gets sent back to Dave, BUT then gains import duties into Australia (I believe).
Dave refuses the huge $$$$$$$$$$ import tax bill etc.
Hence the $15,000 scope really will be put into a dumpster, near some duty collecting bond warehouse.
...So I won't/can't enter.
It looks a very nice scope. But £3650 would be way over budget for me.
P.S. I object to incorrectly filling out custom returns, so that would NOT be an option for me.
REALLY, countries should allow people to genuinely win prizes, TAX etc free. In the same way, many lotteries are tax free. But I guess such a mechanism could be misused, so it is a difficult dilemma.
Ideally (as others have said), the company, kind enough to offer the prize(s), should pay all costs to the winners doorstep. Except countries which are being way too unreasonable.
E.g. Good luck sending it to North Korea, via the USA. In the current climate.
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Hi
I would certainly vote for the simple answer of "send it to me" :)
The way many other places do it is a simple post in a thread sort of thing. There must be some sort of program (or at least a script) to pull names out of the list. I think that having people do *something* to enter is better than a totally passive process. The idea is to kick up interest with the contest. Drawing numbers out of a hat and then matching them with member numbers runs the risk of picking people who no longer have accurate info on file.
Bob
Simple SQL query against forum database with posts from given thread to pull unique names and apply even criteria, like data of registration older mmddyyyy then and number of posts greater then xx. Then randomly select name from the query result. But random in software is not quite random. I suggest to use hardware using noise genarator 8)
I can help with that
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I suggest to use hardware using noise genarator 8)
I can help with that
Yes, I am just inventing a little black box which accepts up to 10,000 names in a comma separated list via a serial port. It then randomly selects one using a state of the art entropy collection system from a noise diode. However, as part of my cunning plan I am also going to register the forum name "This is not a genuine FTDI chip".
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Yes, I am just inventing a little black box which accepts up to 10,000 names in a comma separated list via a serial port. It then randomly selects one using a state of the art entropy collection system from a noise diode. However, as part of my cunning plan I am also going to register the forum name "This is not a genuine FTDI chip".
You could make a fortune selling this box. random.org provides a drawing service and costs $54.95 for 10,000 names (it gets cheaper for more names, 1 million names costs only $1,149.95).
Would be an interesting EEVblog video how to generate good random numbers. It is more complicated than most people expect. There are some tests like the diehard tests (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests) to check that it is really random. Interestingly some very simple algorithms, like a counter and then a SHA256 hash function, passes this test. But the disadvantage is that they are predictable, if you know the implementation. On the other hand if you use a hardware noise generator, it is not predictable, but might not be truely random (e.g. some 50/60 Hz hum). I was thinking for some time now to build a good hardware random number generator by combining the non-predictable, but not perfect, output of a random noise generator with a SHA256 hash function, which should result in a non-predictable, perfect random number generator. I could sell it in two years when this patent (https://www.google.com/patents/US5732138) expires, which uses a Lava lamp to generate random numbers.
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Yes, I am just inventing a little black box which accepts up to 10,000 names in a comma separated list via a serial port. It then randomly selects one using a state of the art entropy collection system from a noise diode. However, as part of my cunning plan I am also going to register the forum name "This is not a genuine FTDI chip".
You could make a fortune selling this box. random.org provides a drawing service and costs $54.95 for 10,000 names (it gets cheaper for more names, 1 million names costs only $1,149.95).
Would be an interesting EEVblog video how to generate good random numbers. It is more complicated than most people expect. There are some tests like the diehard tests (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests) to check that it is really random. Interestingly some very simple algorithms, like a counter and then a SHA256 hash function, passes this test. But the disadvantage is that they are predictable, if you know the implementation. On the other hand if you use a hardware noise generator, it is not predictable, but might not be truely random (e.g. some 50/60 Hz hum). I was thinking for some time now to build a good hardware random number generator by combining the non-predictable, but not perfect, output of a random noise generator with a SHA256 hash function, which should result in a non-predictable, perfect random number generator. I could sell it in two years when this patent (https://www.google.com/patents/US5732138) expires, which uses a Lava lamp to generate random numbers.
But with the wide availability of later Intel (and eventually AMD) cpus, with built in hardware random number generators (RDSEED etc). Along with many modern microcontrollers having hardware random number generators, built in. That surely would limit the market for a separate hardware random number generator ?
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You never know how Intel implemented it. They write (https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-digital-random-number-generator-drng-software-implementation-guide) that they are using a hardware entropy source, but you can't be sure how good it is, because they don't publish the details. My implementation would be open source hardware/software, so everyone could check how it works and that there is no hidden backdoor.
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I completely agree. I have said myself (not here), or to myself, the same.
Intels complete lack of transparency with their hardware random number generator, makes it difficult to use, for some uses.
They could have made many/some/one design errors with it, and it can't be examined by others (outside of Intel and maybe some others). There are so many thousands (or more), of highly complicated mistakes and limitations, which can worsen the quality of the hardware random number generator. Diehard (etc etc) tests, just scratch at the surface, and are really meant for spotting slightly obvious mistakes/limitations of SOFTWARE random number generators.
My method would be to take a few (or more) DIFFERENT modern microcontrollers (with hardware random number generators), on a (custom) PCB. Then merge (e.g. Xor) a set of random numbers, using at least one of each of the different cpus, together.
Ending up with what is hopefully a fully random number ?
(If the Universe etc, will even allow genuine random numbers to be created, but that is another big discussion area).
I think some Physicists?, somewhat recently discovered a new, very rapid/powerful method of generating pure hardware random numbers, using light or something. But it is NOT clear, how much of the article(s) are hype, rather than a really trustworthy random number generator.
EDIT: My hardware idea above, COULD be fundamentally flawed. IF all the microcontrollers, involved were Arm cored, and it turned out that the design of the hardware random number generator, came from the same source. Such as Arm themselves (they do the arm cores, but I'm not sure about the peripherals, such as the hardware random number generator). I would have to research that, if I was taking the design of such a device seriously.
Your independent hardware/software solution, is of course another way of doing it. But it might be a bit slower and more expensive than my solution ?
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Yes, I am just inventing a little black box which accepts up to 10,000 names in a comma separated list via a serial port. It then randomly selects one using a state of the art entropy collection system from a noise diode. However, as part of my cunning plan I am also going to register the forum name "This is not a genuine FTDI chip".
You could make a fortune selling this box. random.org provides a drawing service and costs $54.95 for 10,000 names (it gets cheaper for more names, 1 million names costs only $1,149.95).
Is there a problem with just grabbing some numbers from random.org's generator and running the drawing yourself? Not sure if you're being sarcastic...
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I realise this is way too late but what the heck.
Query the forum database for 10 random posts that were done in the last 6 months.
The people can vote on the best post of those 10.
Actually 10 may not be many enough for a good post, so make it 20.
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How about something geeky like hashing the sorted list of names with a secure hash algorithm, then use mod(hash(names), count(names) ) to select the winner.
If the selected name is not eligible, remove the names and repeat for second draw.
Not at all random, but completely verifiable (if anybody bothers) and pretty much fair.
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How about something geeky like hashing the sorted list of names with a secure hash algorithm, then use mod(hash(names), count(names) ) to select the winner.
If the selected name is not eligible, remove the names and repeat for second draw.
Not at all random, but completely verifiable (if anybody bothers) and pretty much fair.
Why not filter not eligible on first hand?
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How about something geeky like hashing the sorted list of names with a secure hash algorithm, then use mod(hash(names), count(names) ) to select the winner.
If the selected name is not eligible, remove the names and repeat for second draw.
Not at all random, but completely verifiable (if anybody bothers) and pretty much fair.
Why not filter not eligible on first hand?
Which is trivial to do, if you know some basic SQL. But it could be fun to see entries get checked and discarded live on air.
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I'm In I think
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I'm In I think
Yes you are in, just happens to be the wrong thread....... :palm:
Now go away and try again....... :wtf:
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Some of these entries deserve a prize regardless.
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How about something geeky like hashing the sorted list of names with a secure hash algorithm, then use mod(hash(names), count(names) ) to select the winner.
If the selected name is not eligible, remove the names and repeat for second draw.
Not at all random, but completely verifiable (if anybody bothers) and pretty much fair.
Why not filter not eligible on first hand?
Which is trivial to do, if you know some basic SQL. But it could be fun to see entries get checked and discarded live on air.
BBM.
This is how Dave has done it in past drawings. That is, he doesn't bother to filter-out ineligible persons until he does the drawing.
He'll use a program that he wrote to pull all the names from the thread, remove any duplicates, and then pick a potential winner. He does a number of throw-away runs based on a random number (determined by the last digit of a multimeter.) He'll then check all of the posts of the person drawn to ensure that they are eligible.
I haven't seen an ineligible person get picked before but if that happens then I'm sure he just draws another name. I seem to remember that the viewers can see the name of each person drawn so if you're picked but ineligible then everyone will know it.
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Yes you are in, just happens to be the wrong thread....... :palm:
Now go away and try again....... :wtf:
Less than impressed Muttley? :-DD
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Yes well in hindsight the WTF might have been a bit harsh, I couldn't find the bugger off emoticon at the time so I had to improvise.
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How about something geeky like hashing the sorted list of names with a secure hash algorithm, then use mod(hash(names), count(names) ) to select the winner.
If the selected name is not eligible, remove the names and repeat for second draw.
Not at all random, but completely verifiable (if anybody bothers) and pretty much fair.
Why not filter not eligible on first hand?
Which is trivial to do, if you know some basic SQL. But it could be fun to see entries get checked and discarded live on air.
BBM.
I was stuck on Black Berry Messenger for a *long* time. Then I figured it out...
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Yes well in hindsight the WTF might have been a bit harsh, I couldn't find the bugger off emoticon at the time so I had to improvise.
Maybe you should request a new emoticon from Dave? Might be quite popular :box:
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Back to the subject at hand, I have not borne witness to previous competitions and suspect that at some point in time the thread will be locked which would then enable the competition watchdog to review and validate entries that meet a certain criteria, those that do stay are included and those that don’t would be deleted, this then leaves only a list of valid entries for the final draw should it be done in a live video type of manner.
I have noticed that a number of entries have already been removed more likely by the initial poster after realising that they did not meet the rules, it could also be that some have removed their early submission to perhaps increase their post count only to re-enter the draw at a later time with a higher number of counts with the presumption of maybe gaining an advantage, this activity is yet to be verified and no doubt Dave is aware of all the dodgy tactics used by some unscrupulous people in these types of events, this would be a real shame if it were the case.
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For those of us in Canada dreaming of winning one of these two highly discounted and used oscilloscopes (they were found in the dumpster room after all, right? wink, wink), it seems we would only have to pay GST or HST depending on the province you reside, perhaps CA$800 or less plus s&h?. Check out the Prizes and Awards section on this page:
http://travel.gc.ca/returning/customs/what-you-can-bring-home-to-canada (http://travel.gc.ca/returning/customs/what-you-can-bring-home-to-canada)
I think it would be nice and most importantly, fair, to give at least an additional "ballot" to the Aussies and any other "participants" from countries where Keysight for one reason or other could not give scopes away this time around.
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It's human nature I'm afraid Muttley. I'm sure Dave would be right on top of those sorts of activities and imagine he would not suffer them or fools lightly!
As I am only a recent convert to the forum (which is where I then found out about the giveaway), I may be removed. Fair enough, my chances would be pretty slim in any case! :popcorn:
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It's human nature I'm afraid Muttley. I'm sure Dave would be right on top of those sorts of activities and imagine he would not suffer them or fools lightly!
As I am only a recent convert to the forum (which is where I then found out about the giveaway), I may be removed. Fair enough, my chances would be pretty slim in any case! :popcorn:
But definitely worth to try your luck ;)
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He does a number of throw-away runs based on a random number (determined by the last digit of a multimeter.)
LOL, I like it. Floating, high-impedance, bench-top random number generator. Just put a sticker over the Hold button that's labeled "Draw" or "Win". :-DMM
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... and use the low order digits.
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I like the flavor of Dave's rules. Shows he is up to that part of the job. I suspect he can handle the picking of the winner as well. Also suspect he can handle all of the whining which will occur afterward.
Best of luck to the winner. I just bought a new scope, so will leave the contest to someone who has more passion or need than I do.
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Is there a problem with just grabbing some numbers from random.org's generator and running the drawing yourself?
The drawing service at random.org makes sense, because in theory you could manipulate the drawing. random.org publishes the winners on their website.
Didn't Dave do it live on web cam last time? But still tricky, because the last digit on multimeter could be faked and live using random.org could be faked as well. The only trusted way to do it would be a independent 3rd party random number, which everyone can see, like some national lottery, then hashing the values and using it mod number of EEVblog names to draw a winner, and publishing the EEVblog names prior to the lottery drawing (looks like a market niche for another webservice). But we trust Dave, so no problem with the last multimeter digit :)
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I think it would be nice and most importantly, fair, to give at least an additional "ballot" to the Aussies and any other "participants" from countries where Keysight for one reason or other could not give scopes away this time around.
I'm actually considering that, giving an extra vote to aussies who got screwed over by Keysight's lawyers.
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The only trusted way to do it would be a independent 3rd party random number, which everyone can see, like some national lottery [...] (looks like a market niche for another webservice)
For all the random number nerds out there: Of course it is already available on the interwebs, and even free: https://beacon.nist.gov/home
So Dave could announce a time in the future (the source provides 512 quantum random bits every 60 seconds), upload the list of EEVblog forum names (maybe with at least x posts, and only from Australia) and then use the random number of the specified time for the drawing (mod number of EEVblog names). If it is a fake account, use the number of the next minute.
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No one has ever questioned the randomness of my Wobulator program or other method. That's insignificance in the bigger question here of who should be included/excluded.
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No one has ever questioned the randomness of my Wobulator program or other method. That's insignificance in the bigger question here of who should be included/excluded.
Nobody would question it even if you finger point with eyes closed to the name.
It us just nerds discuss technicalities of truly hard task of randomization.
As it appears bigger issue of aka entitlement or eligibility or even rationing. Even distribution socialistic way aka sell then and buy beer party :))))
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I like the idea of giving Aussies an extra vote since they are missing out on the daily draws with Keysight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It us just nerds discuss technicalities of truly hard task of randomization.
I may not have commented about such things in this context, but I felt somewhat self-conscious when reading that. ;D
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I'm actually considering that, giving an extra vote to aussies who got screwed over by Keysight's lawyers.
But... but... :'(
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You could go "old-school" and have people send in a postcard and then you could draw from a box/barrel/bag.
The Hellointernet podcast did this recently when they held a vote in their flag referendum.
http://www.hellointernet.fm/podcast/53 (http://www.hellointernet.fm/podcast/53)
I also find this idea very compelling. A software drawing is nice, you have all the numbers. But havig a huge Box of Postcards would be very cool. However, finding duplicate entries could be quite serious work ;-)
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If the forums search engine is used to identify the term "I'm in" nobody wins....... :-DD
Believe me I've already tried it...... :-BROKE
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I think it would be nice and most importantly, fair, to give at least an additional "ballot" to the Aussies and any other "participants" from countries where Keysight for one reason or other could not give scopes away this time around.
I'm actually considering that, giving an extra vote to aussies who got screwed over by Keysight's lawyers.
I, myself, would be perfectly content giving an extra entry to anyone in ANY country that got screwed over by Keysight (so long as it's verified that they are actually in said country and not just changing their country to match...).
And yes, this is coming from someone who lives in Canada and is eligible for the Keysight draw, thus making myself only qualify for one entry into the EEVblog special scope draw.
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I'm actually considering that, giving an extra vote to aussies who got screwed over by Keysight's lawyers.
Implementation detail: giving every Keysight-rejected person an extra vote using Webulator might be taxing (i.e., going through the entire "I'm in!" forum thread and typing people from these countries twice). However, here's an algorithm for achieving exactly the same effect:
1. Draw random person from "I'm in!" forum thread
2. Check person's country of residence on forum*. If person is from Keysight-reject country, they win! Exit algorithm.
3. Otherwise, flip a coin 50-50.
a. If it comes up heads, that person wins! Exit algorithm.
b. If it comes up tails, restart from step 1.
This way, you only have to inspect the country of a handful of forum entries; but everyone has a mathematically identical chance to if you had doubled votes by inspecting all the entries.
The downside is that if you're doing this as a live stream, any person subjected to step 3b would be very sad.
* Are we going to see a flood of people changing their forum flags to Australia? Probably not, if they're planning to actually receive their oscilloscope...
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I think it would be nice and most importantly, fair, to give at least an additional "ballot" to the Aussies and any other "participants" from countries where Keysight for one reason or other could not give scopes away this time around.
I'm actually considering that, giving an extra vote to aussies who got screwed over by Keysight's lawyers.
Being a Aussie, I'm in favor of that :-+
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Is there a problem with just grabbing some numbers from random.org's generator and running the drawing yourself?
The drawing service at random.org makes sense, because in theory you could manipulate the drawing. random.org publishes the winners on their website.
Didn't Dave do it live on web cam last time? But still tricky, because the last digit on multimeter could be faked and live using random.org could be faked as well. The only trusted way to do it would be a independent 3rd party random number, which everyone can see, like some national lottery, then hashing the values and using it mod number of EEVblog names to draw a winner, and publishing the EEVblog names prior to the lottery drawing (looks like a market niche for another webservice). But we trust Dave, so no problem with the last multimeter digit :)
Hmm, I was thinking it can't be done without a trusted 3rd party as well but then I had this idea:
When planing the contest Dave creates a secret message with the following contents:
* A large random number (much larger than the largest expected number of contestants)
* Some additional non random information: the date when the contest ends, rules, pictures etc.
Dave then hashes the message with a secure hash algorithm (sha-256 or whatever is considered secure at the time). The message is secret and is put in a sealed envelope and the safe (looks good on video :D). When Dave announce the contest he also publish the message hash (but the message is still kept secret of course). He also has to set a strict final date of the competition.
(Now everyone else saves the hash on their local hard drive to be able to verify the result later.)
After the contest ends Dave remove any invalid entries, he now has a list of all valid entries in the order they signed up. He then opens the letter and reveal the message with the random number. He then calculates X = (R mod N) + 1 Where R is the random number and N is the number of entries in the list (i.e. valid contestants). The winner is th X:th entry in the list.
The nice thing is that everyone can check that the published message hashes to the same hash that Dave published when the contest began. That way everyone knows Dave hasn't changed the number R after the contest to manipulate the result. Also, although Dave knows R during the contest, since he can't control in which order people sign up or how many will be signing up (N) he can't tell someone to sign up as a certain number that he know will win since the winner will depend on how many sign up before the end date, N, as well as the order.
Some remarks:
* If Dave wants to extend the contest period, say a week, because there isn't enough contestants he could do so but in that case he should decide to do so long before the original end date so there's no suspicion he is trying to change the winner by inviting more contestants (and thereby changing N).
* The secret message need to contain non random information as well or else it would be relatively easy for Dave to select a new number that generates the same hash, some extra non-random information makes that practically impossible.
* Dave could try to manipulate the result when he decides which entries are valid and which are not (and thereby manipulate both the order and N). So he should also decide on some easily verifiable criteria before the contest so anyone can check that the resulting list of valid entries are fair. The signup tread is public so everyone should be able to generate the same list of valid contestants as Dave.
* If someone is selected that later turns out to be invalid for whatever reason it's not a problem (because that would be hard to predict and thus hard to manipulate). Just explain what happened, remove that person from the list and redo the calculation.
These things are tricky so i might have missed something but I believe it should work? :-/O
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These things are tricky so i might have missed something but I believe it should work? :-/O
I think this would work, because it would be difficult to manipulate the contestants list (but needs to be public). Regarding the hash: you only need to hash the random number, if it is long enough (so that others can't bute-force it), no extra data needed, because the probability to find a hash collision is 4.3*10-60 (see here (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4014090/is-it-safe-to-ignore-the-possibility-of-sha-collisions-in-practice)) for SHA256. But might be easier to choose a small number and some random text, to use a calculator later to do the mod operation.
Of course, it is all theoretical, I'm sure he doesn't cheat in any way, so any random number generator works.
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Regarding the hash: you only need to hash the random number, if it is long enough (so that others can't bute-force it), no extra data needed, because the probability to find a hash collision is 4.3*10-60 (see here (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4014090/is-it-safe-to-ignore-the-possibility-of-sha-collisions-in-practice)) for SHA256.
You are right, I was thinking of another version first where Dave would encrypt the message and then reveal the key, in that case it might be a problem but with the hash version it should be ok. Although there might be a possibility of someone discovering R using a rainbow table so adding some text as a salt might be good. :)
But might be easier to choose a small number and some random text, to use a calculator later to do the mod operation.
Yes, that would be nice. As long as the number R is larger than N it should work.
Of course, it is all theoretical, I'm sure he doesn't cheat in any way, so any random number generator works.
Yes, didn't mean to imply that I don't trust Dave either, just thought it was an interesting problem. It would be a nerdy way of picking a winner. :D
Using the website random.com might be risky though. Even if Dave is unlikely to be affiliated with them it's not so far fetched to believe someone else who joins the contest could be, then they might manipulate the result to pick themselves as a winner. I guess in that case Dave could scramble the list before he generates a random number but in that case he is back in control again. In theory he could manipulate the list so the random number matches whoever he choose, or else he would publish the list first but then someone at random.com could manipulate the result... So, I'm not sure that another website would be worth the trouble.
Anyway, I'm fine with however Dave chooses the winner. :)
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No one has ever questioned the randomness of my Wobulator program or other method. That's insignificance in the bigger question here of who should be included/excluded.
I agree, even a pseudo-random process should be more than plenty for this contest, anything else is just overkill. At least I have not seen anyone suggesting that Dave invites an auditor from KPMG to be present during the draw. ;)
But, don't get me wrong, if there is a thread specific to Random number generation, I am sure it will be a hit. :-+
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I think all of you are forgetting Dave modus operandi. Maximum return for least expenditure of energy.
Ok... I'll go back to scratching my arse...
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Using the website random.com might be risky though. Even if Dave is unlikely to be affiliated with them it's not so far fetched to believe someone else who joins the contest could be, then they might manipulate the result to pick themselves as a winner. I guess in that case Dave could scramble the list before he generates a random number but in that case he is back in control again. In theory he could manipulate the list so the random number matches whoever he choose, or else he would publish the list first but then someone at random.com could manipulate the result... So, I'm not sure that another website would be worth the trouble.
Right, this is the reason I suggested http://www.nist.gov/itl/csd/ct/nist_beacon.cfm (http://www.nist.gov/itl/csd/ct/nist_beacon.cfm) because I guess it is more safe to trust NIST than some company like random.com. And if Dave would specify a timestamp in the future, everyone could verify it, if he publishes the list of names prior to that date, too. This would be safe, if you trust NIST.
But publishing all names might be a privacy problem. If this is a problem, he could publish the SHA256 hashes of all names, with some salt (needs to be sufficient long to avoid brute-force cracking). When the random number gets published at NIST, he could reveal the name and salt for the hash at this position, then everyone could verify it, without knowing the rest of the names on the list, and it would be still 100% provable fair :)
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Auditor and drawmaster could be somebody like Doug Ford, would be nice to have him back in one of Dave's videos.
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But publishing all names might be a privacy problem. If this is a problem, he could publish the SHA256 hashes of all names, with some salt (needs to be sufficient long to avoid brute-force cracking). When the random number gets published at NIST, he could reveal the name and salt for the hash at this position, then everyone could verify it, without knowing the rest of the names on the list, and it would be still 100% provable fair :)
That way you don't have to trust NIST either! First publish the hashed list and the time the NIST number will be picked. Then afterwards reveal winner and the salt. All names should have the same salt so you could check that your own name was indeed on the list as well. But you can only find which entry is yours after the salt is revealed, that way a clever NIST technician in need of a new scope can't manipulate the result. That would be both protect privacy and be "tamper proof" (as long as the EEvblog and NIST isn't colluding) ^-^
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All this talk about which random number generator/method to use skips over step one.
Step one: take out the trash.
Close the thread for the draw, then spend a day (or write some magic mysql code) to find those with low post counts that didn't even have 10 posts when they entered.
Then take said list of remaining low post counts, and remove the spammers that just made 10-20 dribble posts to qualify.
Dave can then announce he had X entries, but only Y were valid.
As for the idea of giving Australians a second vote, an easy way to do that is to make a list (username, post#), and add that number to the total entrants. Eg if 500 entries, and 50 Aussies, then the random generator gets 0-550, if the result is over 500, refer to the list.
Usually people who create these sorts of giveaways have the scripting to run the draw ready, so they know it works with the rules (and vis versa).
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Use all the invalid entries as a seed for choosing the winner. There are heaps of single post entries in there now!
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CLOSED!
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I suspect that there wont be a winner, only a recipient.... ;)
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my whole family is watching.... could be a sweet break for my micro business.
Sent from my horrible mobile....
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Watching where? :popcorn:
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Watching the blog/YouTube since we don't know where the announcement will be.
Sent from my horrible mobile....
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Edit.
I just noticed Dave has closed the entries for the competition and I didn't notice the final count before closing but it doesn't seem like he weeded out very many. And good on him for that.
If I remember correctly, the count was somewhere in the mid 900's...but I could be wrong
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It got to 898 and I saved this snapshot just after it was locked, looks like it is currently being thinned out.
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curious who will win this thing
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curious who will win this thing
Imagine: It would be: Sebastian W. / Germany... :o :o :-DD :-DD :popcorn:
(Hell, no! That´s to sadistic!)
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curious who will win this thing
Imagine: It would be: Sebastian W. / Germany... :o :o :-DD :-DD :popcorn:
(Hell, no! That´s to sadistic!)
I think that wouldn't be very fair with the people here, ya that would be a big soap opera lol
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Looks like the list has been culled quite a bit. However, I did see some remaining entries with low post counts. So, all is not lost if you're a newcomer.
Can't wait for the draw.
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Yeah, not bad odds for a prize of this magnitude.
I wonder how many ae entered into Keysight's daily giveaway?
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Yeah, not bad odds for a prize of this magnitude.
I wonder how many ae entered into Keysight's daily giveaway?
I wonder if we ask real nicely, would they release general stats on that?
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Yeah, not bad odds for a prize of this magnitude.
I wonder how many ae entered into Keysight's daily giveaway?
I wonder if we ask real nicely, would they release general stats on that?
I imagine it would be commercially sensitive information. If I had just spent half a million dollars on marketing I would not hand out information relating to how successful it had been.
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Yeah, not bad odds for a prize of this magnitude.
I wonder how many ae entered into Keysight's daily giveaway?
I wonder if we ask real nicely, would they release general stats on that?
I imagine it would be commercially sensitive information. If I had just spent half a million dollars on marketing I would not hand out information relating to how successful it had been.
Well... Yeah. Still would be really interesting to have been able to see how many interested parties they had and where from.
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Anyone else think Dave is drawing out the results so he can play an April Fools day prank on us? Eg OOPS a big truck emptied the dumpster.
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Anyone else think Dave is drawing out the results so he can play an April Fools day prank on us? Eg OOPS a big truck emptied the dumpster.
Dave? :P
Nah, he wouldn't do anything like that would he? :o :-DD
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I'll put my money on his draw occurring after the Keysight giveaways have been wrapped up. This will give him undivided attention and it will make a bigger impact than doing it in the middle of Keysight's campaign.
There's also the possibility he has other things keeping him busy, preventing him from completing the preparation steps to his draw.
Anyone else think Dave is drawing out the results so he can play an April Fools day prank on us? Eg OOPS a big truck emptied the dumpster.
Dave? :P
Nah, he wouldn't do anything like that would he? :o :-DD
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh .... ........ ?
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I'll put my money on his draw occurring after the Keysight giveaways have been wrapped up. This will give him undivided attention and it will make a bigger impact than doing it in the middle of Keysight's campaign.
There's also the possibility he has other things keeping him busy, preventing him from completing the preparation steps to his draw.
Anyone else think Dave is drawing out the results so he can play an April Fools day prank on us? Eg OOPS a big truck emptied the dumpster.
Dave? :P
Nah, he wouldn't do anything like that would he? :o :-DD
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh .... ........ ?
Hi
Or the whole thing is based on him being *sure* he will win so may from Keysight that he can give away the spares .... ;D
Bob
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It got to 898 and I saved this snapshot just after it was locked, looks like it is currently being thinned out.
It's on 671 posts now :o
Maybe first time posters were sorted out? :-//
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Acta non Verba?
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There's also the possibility he has other things keeping him busy, preventing him from completing the preparation steps to his draw.
That.
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I suspect Dave is working on his April fools Video for this year. Maybe it will be the draw.
Oh no have I given it away Dave, Sorry. ^-^
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There's also the possibility he has other things keeping him busy, preventing him from completing the preparation steps to his draw.
That.
Or Aliens and magnets.
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I suspect Dave is working on his April fools Video for this year. Maybe it will be the draw.
We will all get PMs saying that we have won and have to sign a document stating we will pay an undisclosed sum in taxes. Just wait until all the posts claiming winning prize has ruined their life appear. >:D