EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => Contests & Events => Topic started by: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on February 13, 2016, 12:24:45 am
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Hi folks,
If you see this post you probably already know by now, but:
Register to win a free Keysight scope at www.scopemonth.com (http://www.scopemonth.com)
What I want to know is, are you eligible? We want all of you to win and be eligible, but are curious how many of you actually are able to win it so we can work on it for future events. :-//
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This giveaway would be awesome if I wasn't screwed over by the province of Quebec...
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
You assign all IP or copyrights of your entry. So your company name or whatever information you used to enter can be published if they want to announce the winner.
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This promotion
is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela
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The web site needs a "create a quote" with a "Request price reduction to $1" checkmark.
Someone approves it or not, not more than one quote per day, for thirty days.
Easy.
No list of countries, although shipping and tax might be a killer.
From a whole floor of lawyers, someone should be able to figure out how to get it done.
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Register for Scope Month – Not Yet Available
Is it not ready - or is being in Australia the problem?
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Ah, always check the small print....
Thank you for your interest. This offer is not yet available in your country. Here are some links you’ll find interesting:
I suspect that's not going to change?
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I don't quite understand the above poll in regards to the specified dates, maybe someone could direct me to the bit I'm missing which appears to be 28 days later, wasn't that a zombie movie ?.
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The poll deadline and the sweepstakes period are independent things. The poll is so Daniel can see whether most people who cast a vote were eligible for the sweepstakes or not.
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
FFS they are giving stuff away - if you don't like the terms, don't enter. What's your problem?
The whole point is for publicity, so they need to be able to use entries for that or there's no point.
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What's your problem?
My problem is lawyers and their overly-broad statements. In this case, I don't care, I'm not submitting anything. But as long as this behavior is accepted, layers will keep putting stuff like this into licenses and contracts. And sometimes there is no real alternative, so you "agree", even if you really don't.
The whole point is for publicity, so they need to be able to use entries for that or there's no point.
So you submit your thing, and it is not yours anymore. Just like that. Surely, there is a way to allow conditional use without giving full IP rights.
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Interesting, they narrowed the list of the countries in the drop-down list to match those which actually are eligible in the rules. A week earlier this list was way longer and I "successfully" registered while selecting Latvia which is no longer there.
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TURKEY . Please tell us why not ?
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I'm still scratching my head at Australia's non-inclusion.
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It seems that Portugal is not included… :'(
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I've just submitted my name and it was accepted, even if Brazil isn't listed in the list of eligible countries.
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
FFS they are giving stuff away - if you don't like the terms, don't enter. What's your problem?
The whole point is for publicity, so they need to be able to use entries for that or there's no point.
Because I we have the feeling that they think of us, like we are somewhat lesser, and that is why we are not included. For me, If I would live like 200 Km away in any direction, it would be OK, but not here.
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
FFS they are giving stuff away - if you don't like the terms, don't enter. What's your problem?
The whole point is for publicity, so they need to be able to use entries for that or there's no point.
Because I we have the feeling that they think of us, like we are somewhat lesser, and that is why we are not included. For me, If I would live like 200 Km away in any direction, it would be OK, but not here.
usually it is country or regional laws (like in Quebec) that cause them to exclude areas. I have never heard of a company saying "Eh fuck em, they suck anyways" kind of attitude for excluding regions.
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
FFS they are giving stuff away - if you don't like the terms, don't enter. What's your problem?
The whole point is for publicity, so they need to be able to use entries for that or there's no point.
Because I we have the feeling that they think of us, like we are somewhat lesser, and that is why we are not included. For me, If I would live like 200 Km away in any direction, it would be OK, but not here.
usually it is country or regional laws (like in Quebec) that cause them to exclude areas. I have never heard of a company saying "Eh fuck em, they suck anyways" kind of attitude for excluding regions.
Yes, the exclusions are purely due to local legal compliance. Many regions have laws limiting or prohibiting this type of giveaway/contest, and we do our best to be compliant. Regarding us owning the entry, that's also a common rider for many giveaways. Basically, you can't sue us for you entering our contest (duh).
Australia specifically has very, very complex regulations and a very long registration process with the local government. We definitely wanted to include Australia, we just couldn't do it in a legally compliant way.
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The web site needs a "create a quote" with a "Request price reduction to $1" checkmark.
Someone approves it or not, not more than one quote per day, for thirty days.
Easy.
I actually thought of this and asked our legal team about it. It's a no-go. You'd just owe taxes on $(Discount - $1) because it's still part of a "contest."
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Australia specifically has very, very complex regulations and a very long registration process with the local government. We definitely wanted to include Australia, we just couldn't do it in a legally compliant way.
I will admit I don't know what the full legal situation is here in Australia - but I suspect the reason it is not easy is to make it difficult for sleazy operators, preventing them from using the system.
I do remember years ago legally you could not hold a 'raffle' but you could have a game of skill - and where there was more than one successful entry, you could draw a winner out of a hat.
The solution was to have a G _ _ S _ I N _ C _ M P _ T _ T I _ N
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I registered when Slovenia was still on the list, now they removed it. I guess that means I'm out of the scope draw. :-\
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Denmark and Finland, but no Norway? No way.. :scared:
I would have to pay VAT on any prize valued $1159 or above (25% of that is not insignificant), is this why you're excluding certain countries? Can't you just add the legalese of "you're responsible for any VAT and import fees" etc etc.
Also, why a mandatory company name?
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I would have to pay VAT on any prize valued $1159 or above (25% of that is not insignificant), is this why you're excluding certain countries? Can't you just add the legalese of "you're responsible for any VAT and import fees" etc etc.
We haven't excluded countries for taxation reasons. There are a lot of different laws regarding contests/giveaways and we are offering it everywhere that we legally can. There are restrictions on prize value, total prize value, skill based/random, etc.
Winners will be notified and can choose to reject the prize if they don't want to pay the taxes, etc. I've also seen one winner of the "Dreambench" giveaway donate their winnings to the local makerspace. This way they didn't have to pay taxes on it because it was a "charitable donation."
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Good to know! Always feel unfair being excluded, but there's probably good reasons.
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I would have to pay VAT on any prize valued $1159 or above (25% of that is not insignificant), is this why you're excluding certain countries? Can't you just add the legalese of "you're responsible for any VAT and import fees" etc etc.
We haven't excluded countries for taxation reasons. There are a lot of different laws regarding contests/giveaways and we are offering it everywhere that we legally can. There are restrictions on prize value, total prize value, skill based/random, etc.
Winners will be notified and can choose to reject the prize if they don't want to pay the taxes, etc. I've also seen one winner of the "Dreambench" giveaway donate their winnings to the local makerspace. This way they didn't have to pay taxes on it because it was a "charitable donation."
In fact, a way around this would be to send the price from a local distributor instead of your HQ. That would avoid the recipient having to pay customs and probably a VAT too in most cases. Otherwise a nice $10k scope win becomes an enormously sour lemon once the tax & customs bill start to come in - and people have to refuse it or give it away.
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I see Malta is not on the list. I didn't think there would have been legal obstacles for something like this.
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I would have to pay VAT on any prize valued $1159 or above (25% of that is not insignificant), is this why you're excluding certain countries? Can't you just add the legalese of "you're responsible for any VAT and import fees" etc etc.
We haven't excluded countries for taxation reasons. There are a lot of different laws regarding contests/giveaways and we are offering it everywhere that we legally can. There are restrictions on prize value, total prize value, skill based/random, etc.
Winners will be notified and can choose to reject the prize if they don't want to pay the taxes, etc. I've also seen one winner of the "Dreambench" giveaway donate their winnings to the local makerspace. This way they didn't have to pay taxes on it because it was a "charitable donation."
In fact, a way around this would be to send the price from a local distributor instead of your HQ.
I agree. I would add that for any european winners, sending the prizes from anywhere within the EU should at least avoid the customs bill (I don't expect Keysight have an office in every country). No idea how it would effect VAT though.
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Agreed with the comments above, Keysight should channel the prize through a local distributor. Or Keysight could "buy it" in the winner's name from that local distributor, or however it would be managed.
Things to consider.
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This giveaway would be awesome if I wasn't screwed over by the province of Quebec...
Sadly, I see that happen often....always in the fine print. Sorry for your luck!
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Strange to see Denmark included but not Sweden. Didn't think our regulations around this kind of giveaways were so different.
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I personally would gladly pay taxes on anything "given" to me. I work very hard for the money I make and any type of test equipment would help with my desire to make things better for myself and most of all my family. My 9 year old deserves better than I can give her for now. Heck, a new multimeter would be welcomed, heh. Anyway, thanks for at least a chance for this Daniel :-+
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Make the prize a limited run 'limited edition' at an obscenely low price by comparison. (could be accomplished with a modified badge and or serial number)
we all know those things at most contain a few hundred dollars in actual materials so it would not hurt the bottom line compared to institutes and orgs
who would otherwise pay normal price.
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Be careful what you are signing up for:
All entries become the property of Keysight and will not be acknowledged or returned. By entering, the entrant hereby assigns to Keysight all IP rights,
including copyrights.
I suggest go and screw yourself. That's what you are going to do for entrants anyway, right?
wow, talk about mr sourpuss... slept on a pea ? sheesh
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How about making it possible to enter the giveaway without getting a bunch of marketing spam?
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How about making it possible to enter the giveaway without getting a bunch of marketing spam?
I dislike spam as much as the next person, but it seems a pretty fair bargain to me. I give Keysight my name as someone who would be interested in owning a oscilloscope, and agree to receive spam for at least a certain amount of time, and in return they enter me in a lottery for a 'scope. I can accept or refuse, but I can't quite see what is unreasonable about such a bargain. After all, selling things is generally the point of commercial companies' marketing competitions. Why else would, or should, they do it?
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How about making it possible to enter the giveaway without getting a bunch of marketing spam?
I dislike spam as much as the next person, but it seems a pretty fair bargain to me. I give Keysight my name as someone who would be interested in owning a oscilloscope, and agree to receive spam for at least a certain amount of time, and in return they enter me in a lottery for a 'scope. I can accept or refuse, but I can't quite see what is unreasonable about such a bargain. After all, selling things is generally the point of commercial companies' marketing competitions. Why else would, or should, they do it?
What's the point of it? Obviously I already know they sell oscilloscopes. Getting spam from them won't make me any more aware of that, it's just annoying and makes me not want to give them any money.
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How about making it possible to enter the giveaway without getting a bunch of marketing spam?
I dislike spam as much as the next person, but it seems a pretty fair bargain to me. I give Keysight my name as someone who would be interested in owning a oscilloscope, and agree to receive spam for at least a certain amount of time, and in return they enter me in a lottery for a 'scope. I can accept or refuse, but I can't quite see what is unreasonable about such a bargain. After all, selling things is generally the point of commercial companies' marketing competitions. Why else would, or should, they do it?
What's the point of it? Obviously I already know they sell oscilloscopes. Getting spam from them won't make me any more aware of that, it's just annoying and makes me not want to give them any money.
Most people believe their decisions are unaffected by advertising. Interestingly, most people believe they are unaffected by political propaganda. But there is overwhelming good-quality empirical evidence that most people (perhaps not all) are mistaken. That, at least on a statistical basis, advertising actually works. Please don't shoot the messenger, I don't like the idea either.
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Make the prize a limited run 'limited edition' at an obscenely low price by comparison. (could be accomplished with a modified badge and or serial number)
we all know those things at most contain a few hundred dollars in actual materials so it would not hurt the bottom line compared to institutes and orgs
who would otherwise pay normal price.
That doesn't help with customs in most places. They will not believe that that price is real and will instead use their tables (supposedly based on prevailing market prices for similar items) to determine the value. And subsequently slap both the sender and you with a fine for attempting to evade customs by falsely declaring the value of the goods.
This is the same thing as getting the sender to mark the item as "gift". From the POV of customs it is irrelevant in most places. If the declared value is wildly different from what could be expected for such item then the declared value will be ignored and they will determine the value themselves using their own procedures for the tax and customs purposes.
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I actually thought of this and asked our legal team about it. It's a no-go. You'd just owe taxes on $(Discount - $1) because it's still part of a "contest."
Yes, we have taxation laws here that relate to "capital gains", it's to stop things like the boss giving you unlimited use of a particular company car to reduce the amount of tax you pay. Also stops things like $1 items that usually cost way more.
It's a shame the world's contest laws are so complex and disconnected. But the US's taxation system's W-8BEN form is a much bigger problem, why the hell do non US people need to get a US tax file number ?
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Strange how the Netherlands is not on the Keysight list, they share an office building with my employer in Amsterdam. I guess it is local regulation as mentioned before, rather than drop by the office during lunch time...
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Thanks for the alert.
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I actually thought of this and asked our legal team about it. It's a no-go. You'd just owe taxes on $(Discount - $1) because it's still part of a "contest."
Yes, we have taxation laws here that relate to "capital gains", it's to stop things like the boss giving you unlimited use of a particular company car to reduce the amount of tax you pay. Also stops things like $1 items that usually cost way more.
I think you mean the Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT).
I remember when that came in. Working for a financial institution, home loans were given at a very useful discount for staff - but with the introduction of the FBT, for the company to be on the same footing as before, those with loans had to pay nearly as much as retail customers.
Took the gloss right off working there.
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I would have to pay VAT on any prize valued $1159 or above (25% of that is not insignificant), is this why you're excluding certain countries? Can't you just add the legalese of "you're responsible for any VAT and import fees" etc etc.
We haven't excluded countries for taxation reasons. There are a lot of different laws regarding contests/giveaways and we are offering it everywhere that we legally can. There are restrictions on prize value, total prize value, skill based/random, etc.
Winners will be notified and can choose to reject the prize if they don't want to pay the taxes, etc. I've also seen one winner of the "Dreambench" giveaway donate their winnings to the local makerspace. This way they didn't have to pay taxes on it because it was a "charitable donation."
In fact, a way around this would be to send the price from a local distributor instead of your HQ.
I agree. I would add that for any european winners, sending the prizes from anywhere within the EU should at least avoid the customs bill (I don't expect Keysight have an office in every country). No idea how it would effect VAT though.
The customs bill is the VAT bill.
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Most people believe their decisions are unaffected by advertising. Interestingly, most people believe they are unaffected by political propaganda. But there is overwhelming good-quality empirical evidence that most people (perhaps not all) are mistaken. That, at least on a statistical basis, advertising actually works. Please don't shoot the messenger, I don't like the idea either.
Exactly, most people are stupid enough to think that. As for me, I clearly observe how my opinion gets changed while I read, watch, listen something even if it is a complete BS.
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What's the point of it?
Their marketing department has to justify their existence, and need to meet a certain KPI on engagement etc.
Obviously I already know they sell oscilloscopes. Getting spam from them won't make me any more aware of that, it's just annoying and makes me not want to give them any money.
You don't have to enter the contest.
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The customs bill is the VAT bill.
Umm, no? Whenever I have received anything from the US from Digikey, there were always separate items for VAT and customs. The "customs" part typically includes both the duty and also the handling/papework fees of the company doing the processing for you (aka Fedex/UPS/etc. in this case). I recall having to pay the VAT on the spot to the courrier and then two weeks or so later I got a bill for the customs and fees from the transportation company.
These are definitely separate items, collected by different parts of the government in most places.
VAT is a tax you pay on everything, even within EU, customs is a levy on items imported from abroad.
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Obviously I already know they sell oscilloscopes. Getting spam from them won't make me any more aware of that, it's just annoying and makes me not want to give them any money.
You don't have to enter the contest.
Entering the contest gives me a good feeling about Keysight, which might make me more likely to buy from them. Getting spam from them kind of ruins that feeling, so it's counterproductive. They should just have a "no spam" checkbox.
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Entering the contest gives me a good feeling about Keysight, which might make me more likely to buy from them. Getting spam from them kind of ruins that feeling, so it's counterproductive. They should just have a "no spam" checkbox.
It gives you a good feeling for one hour, then you forget. By sending some ads they'll refresh your interest once in a while. As it often is, you are not even after the device which you will buy the next week, so won't even try to search for it. But if you see some ad, get interested about this stuff, then after a bit of research, decide that you "need" it and finally buy. How do you think why iphones are sold in such quantities?
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How do you think why iphones are sold in such quantities?
I don't think it's because Apple sends out spam to people who contact them about something else :-//
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How do you think why iphones are sold in such quantities?
I don't think it's because Apple sends out spam to people who contact them about something else :-//
They spam you via paid news articles all of the time. In the movies (Mission impossible 4 :palm:). And it's not like keysight will spam you heavily. Maybe a few emails per year at worst.
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If you are not ok with receiving a few emails for possibility to win a $15k oscilloscope with zero money spend, don't sign up. Or use expendable email account, but crying about this is just stupid. Or do you feel that Keysight, for some reason, is obliged to give it to you for nothing?
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And it's not like keysight will spam you heavily. Maybe a few emails per year at worst.
I got 2 spams from them last week, which is why I posted.
If you are not ok with receiving a few emails for possibility to win a $15k oscilloscope with zero money spend, don't sign up. Or use expendable email account, but crying about this is just stupid. Or do you feel that Keysight, for some reason, is obliged to give it to you for nothing?
I don't think I have to "love it or leave it". I like the basic idea of the contest, but I think it would be even better without the spam. What's wrong with suggesting that improvement?
Expendable email doesn't help, since I want to find out if I won the contest :-//
I feel that Keysight might be interested in my opinion, and they seem to be reading this thread. It has nothing to do with obligation.
Anyway, why do you feel the need to defend Keysight? They can speak for themselves if they choose to.
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The customs bill is the VAT bill.
The "customs" part typically includes both the duty and also the handling/papework fees of the company doing the processing for you (aka Fedex/UPS/etc. in this case).
What you describe is indeed the paperwork. On goods you import, VAT is due. It's called a customs charge but in the end it is just the VAT you would have payed if you had gone to the local store. Which makes sense, as the one who is sending is not paying VAT so that would a bit too evil on a local shop owner. What you perceive as "customs" cost is the administrative cost from the courier.
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Did you not see the check box for opting out?
I saw it and did not check it I don't mind a bit of advertising email for things I am interested in. ( I would not call this spam)
I have no use for this scope it is far to advanced for me But if I should win one I will make the best use of it that I can.
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Expendable email doesn't help, since I want to find out if I won the contest :-//
Who prohibits you to check it a few times during the March and then abandon it?
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The customs bill is the VAT bill.
The "customs" part typically includes both the duty and also the handling/papework fees of the company doing the processing for you (aka Fedex/UPS/etc. in this case).
What you describe is indeed the paperwork. On goods you import, VAT is due. It's called a customs charge but in the end it is just the VAT you would have payed if you had gone to the local store. Which makes sense, as the one who is sending is not paying VAT so that would a bit too evil on a local shop owner. What you perceive as "customs" cost is the administrative cost from the courier.
Not exactly - at least not in Malta. The customs charge is charged by the government and varied by the type of item. Then we're charged the normal VAT rate on top of that, so in some cases it could be double the VAT alone!
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Entering the contest gives me a good feeling about Keysight, which might make me more likely to buy from them. Getting spam from them kind of ruins that feeling, so it's counterproductive.
Spam works on the majority of people, that's why companies like Keysight use it.
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Not exactly - at least not in Malta. The customs charge is charged by the government and varied by the type of item. Then we're charged the normal VAT rate on top of that, so in some cases it could be double the VAT alone!
Indeed, it is exactly like this in France, Slovakia, Denmark and Switzerland too (countries where I have experienced it first hand).
Customs and VAT are different things. If one has to pay only one in Belgium, great, Ice-Tea got lucky. But that isn't the rule. Customs is definitely more than just the charge for the paperwork - try to import an item over few hundred euro worth and you will see!
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The best way for a company to NOT have it's products purchased is to have them absent from the consciousness of the prospective buyers. This can be either through never having been informed or forgetting over time.
A little email every now and then helps a lot - as does putting out a few high dollar prizes! The buyer is informed AND is given the thought that one could be in their lab. A taste that may lead to desire and then intent.......
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Not exactly - at least not in Malta. The customs charge is charged by the government and varied by the type of item. Then we're charged the normal VAT rate on top of that, so in some cases it could be double the VAT alone!
Indeed, it is exactly like this in France, Slovakia, Denmark and Switzerland too (countries where I have experienced it first hand).
Customs and VAT are different things. If one has to pay only one in Belgium, great, Ice-Tea got lucky. But that isn't the rule. Customs is definitely more than just the charge for the paperwork - try to import an item over few hundred euro worth and you will see!
it's definitely like that. so in fact you might end up paying 1k+ Eur customs duty + 3k Eur VAT (it's approx 20% almost everywhere in EU) when importing a (giveaway) scope worth of 15k...
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The best way for a company to NOT have it's products purchased is to have them absent from the consciousness of the prospective buyers. This can be either through never having been informed or forgetting over time.
A little email every now and then helps a lot - as does putting out a few high dollar prizes! The buyer is informed AND is given the thought that one could be in their lab. A taste that may lead to desire and then intent.......
Exactly, a while ago I had a conversation with a guy who is selling various audio related stuff (mostly made by himself). He said that he took a time to make a mailing list from a few years of previously selling on ebay. And sent all those people an email that he opened his own website, bla bla. That month he sold the amount of stuff he previously sold in a few months. So those people were aware of this guy as they bought from him before. However they needed a little kick to actually buy from him again.
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Government agencies and institutions (including public universities), and their
employees, are not eligible to participate or receive prizes
Since most grad students are technically employed by a university, they're out of luck.
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Government agencies and institutions (including public universities), and their
employees, are not eligible to participate or receive prizes
Since most grad students are technically employed by a university, they're out of luck.
I called Keysight and verified twice with them that people who are employees of a public university are still eligible IF they do not enter on behalf of the university, and if it will be for personal use only.
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So I'm wondering if Keysight will filter the entries based on employer? I'm an undergrad student and since I do not have a part-time job on top of that I put my university's name down under "company name"...would that hinder my chances?
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It's probably too late for this one, but something to keep in mind for the next contest: I did not enter because the language that says "assigns to Keysight all IP rights, including copyrights" is so vague. Sure, it is supposed to mean only material related to the contest, but it doesn't say that, it says "all".
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Government agencies and institutions (including public universities), and their
employees, are not eligible to participate or receive prizes
Since most grad students are technically employed by a university, they're out of luck.
I called Keysight and verified twice with them that people who are employees of a public university are still eligible IF they do not enter on behalf of the university, and if it will be for personal use only.
This is in place because there are laws regarding bribing government officials. We sometimes do Handheld DMM giveaways at our roadshows, and many people cannot accept because of their employer's rules & regs.
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So, I refreshed my knowledge on this a bit. Back in the day, I did a lot of importing withtout customs charges (only the VAT part). Depends a bit on what goods you import. Scopes have TARIC code that does incur customs charges, also in Belgium.
For thos interested, here's a global list of tarifs for scopes:
http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-code-duty-rate-import-restrictions/903020/oscilloscope/9030.20.1000/9030.20.1090/5510/ (http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-code-duty-rate-import-restrictions/903020/oscilloscope/9030.20.1000/9030.20.1090/5510/)
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So, I refreshed my knowledge on this a bit. Back in the day, I did a lot of importing withtout customs charges (only the VAT part). Depends a bit on what goods you import. Scopes have TARIC code that does incur customs charges, also in Belgium.
For thos interested, here's a global list of tarifs for scopes:
http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-code-duty-rate-import-restrictions/903020/oscilloscope/9030.20.1000/9030.20.1090/5510/ (http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-code-duty-rate-import-restrictions/903020/oscilloscope/9030.20.1000/9030.20.1090/5510/)
WooHoo! 0% for Canada, just the taxes, which vary by province :clap:
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WooHoo! 0% for Canada, just the taxes, which vary by province :clap:
NAFTA FTW. Sorry other continents :(
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Dear Mr. Bogdanoff,
I have a question. Just to make it clear.
E.g. If the winner is located in Germany:
- The scope will be shipped from your nearest sales Office?
(in this case: Keysight Technologies Deutschland GmbH, Boeblingen) :-+
or
- The scope will only be shipped from Keysight, Santa Rosa? :--
I firmly believe that your answer is interesting for all countries with your sales offices.
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Entering the contest gives me a good feeling about Keysight, which might make me more likely to buy from them. Getting spam from them kind of ruins that feeling, so it's counterproductive.
Spam works on the majority of people, that's why companies like Keysight use it.
It's also not spam if it's something you're interested in, or something you were looking to get. I get spammed on lenses by Olympus and I've purchased stuff from their emails on multiple occasions (they will have a reduced price promotion etc..).
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Amazing what you find in the dumpster these days:
(http://i.imgur.com/0FQyZkj.jpg)
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Hmm, could that be the EEVBlog version of a high-end Keysight oscilloscope? It has the little Dave logo on it. I dunno. Maybe something that really stands out would make it more obvious. :-DD
That's a special edition alright! ^-^
How do I find me one of those in a dumpster near me? :-+
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Well, we know Dave isn't going to get plastered any time soon - but he certainly has been tiled!
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Amazing what you find in the dumpster these days:
(http://i.imgur.com/0FQyZkj.jpg)
no need to crack this open to see Engineering porn...wow that is one lovely looking machine compared to the ones i have seen the last few years. they are some real dumpers compaired to that beauty.
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Ok, so now that we know Dave took the scope out of the box and turned it on... can it be declared second-hand? That would make the declared price (and therefore taxes) much lower ;D
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Amazing what you find in the dumpster these days:
(http://i.imgur.com/0FQyZkj.jpg)
DAMN That is a beautiful scope.
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Hohoho, bizarre!
I hope I will win it to scare mi children ;)
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looks great, but sadly no color coding on inputs..
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...instead of a cal cert, you get a peice of paper saying "Within a bee's dick... She'll be right mate!"
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Or that the right tongue angle have been used ...
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Amazing what you find in the dumpster these days:
(http://i.imgur.com/0FQyZkj.jpg)
:scared: :clap: So beautiful, it brings a tear to my eye :'( (but a happy tear)
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Amazing what you find in the dumpster these days:
(http://i.imgur.com/0FQyZkj.jpg)
Assumed it is a 15k$ scope and the import taxes are 25% ... I guess I could afford to enter the contest, but I probably won't because I probably wouldn't be able to pay the cost of servicing the scope if I managed to break it (not that I ever broke an instrument before). It'd instantly turn into a 4k$ brick on my table top if anything failed after a year's warrantee :-\
There'll be other contests for me to enter.
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Or that the right tongue angle have been used ...
They should have an extra menu to adjust this....
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Just try the Agilent Easter Egg. :-DD
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Or that the right tongue angle have been used ...
They should have an extra menu to adjust this....
They do. After enabling it, you use Vertical Position knob #1. That's why there's a Dave icon next to it.
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@Daniel: The Netherlands is not in the list of elegible countries. Any chance to include us?
I've noticed over the past few years that The Netherlands is sometimes included, sometimes not. For example the 'small' Benchvue Sweepstakes in februari 2015 (where the 1st prize was a small set of bench instruments, the 2nd prize were 34461A's) did include the Netherlands. Instead the larger one "Ultimate Dream Bench Sweepstakes" running over most of 2015 with a monthly 34470A winner and a huge set of instruments in the 1st and 2nd prize categories did not include the Netherlands. I was unable to find any difference in the rules and regulations between the two indicating why.
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...instead of a cal cert, you get a peice of paper saying "Within a bee's dick... She'll be right mate!"
made my morning
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@Daniel: The Netherlands is not in the list of elegible countries. Any chance to include us?
I've noticed over the past few years that The Netherlands is sometimes included, sometimes not. For example the 'small' Benchvue Sweepstakes in februari 2015 (where the 1st prize was a small set of bench instruments, the 2nd prize were 34461A's) did include the Netherlands. Instead the larger one "Ultimate Dream Bench Sweepstakes" running over most of 2015 with a monthly 34470A winner and a huge set of instruments in the 1st and 2nd prize categories did not include the Netherlands. I was unable to find any difference in the rules and regulations between the two indicating why.
I don't know the specifics for the Netherlands. But given your data point, it's likely something to do with total prize value (in the case of Scope Month, $500k USD).
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I get the impression that if Keysight (or any other organisation) wanted a broader range of countries within the scope of eligibility, the compliance costs would probably outweigh the prize value (which is expressed in retail dollars) so the real cost to the promoter would be even less.
Just unwieldy overheads caused by our legislators looking after us.
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@Daniel: The Netherlands is not in the list of elegible countries. Any chance to include us?
I've noticed over the past few years that The Netherlands is sometimes included, sometimes not. For example the 'small' Benchvue Sweepstakes in februari 2015 (where the 1st prize was a small set of bench instruments, the 2nd prize were 34461A's) did include the Netherlands. Instead the larger one "Ultimate Dream Bench Sweepstakes" running over most of 2015 with a monthly 34470A winner and a huge set of instruments in the 1st and 2nd prize categories did not include the Netherlands. I was unable to find any difference in the rules and regulations between the two indicating why.
I don't know the specifics for the Netherlands. But given your data point, it's likely something to do with total prize value (in the case of Scope Month, $500k USD).
Geezz :scared:
If i won the grand price , i'd have to pay 4.2% duty of the 500K$ value & then 25% VAT on top of the total value.
That would be ~30% of 500K$ just to get the stuff into DK :scared: :scared:
/Bingo
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I for one would begrudgingly be happy to give my HMRC overlords my 20% pound of flesh if I won such a fine instrument! ;)
Or I would just shove it through my company and the VAT issue becomes moot.
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Was Dave not worth the trouble of swapping the white pellets for black in their injection molding machine? :box:
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@Daniel
Daniel, would a winner have an option to choose a lower cost scope and have test equipment worth the difference donated to a school?
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Australia specifically has very, very complex regulations and a very long registration process with the local government. We definitely wanted to include Australia, we just couldn't do it in a legally compliant way.
Man, that's a real shame. Either way, kudos for doing this.
Also, good luck to those who are eligible. You lucky bastards.
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Australia specifically has very, very complex regulations and a very long registration process with the local government. We definitely wanted to include Australia, we just couldn't do it in a legally compliant way.
Man, that's a real shame. Either way, kudos for doing this.
Also, good luck to those who are eligible. You lucky bastards.
Aussies can enter the forum giveaway
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...instead of a cal cert, you get a peice of paper saying "Within a bee's dick... She'll be right mate!"
Oh, no, Dave's gear must be able to do half a bee's dick. Especially if the tongue is at the right angle :-DD
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looks great, but sadly no color coding on inputs..
Neshi does have a point, there doesn't appear to be any form of color/channel identifier... but I'd be willing to suffer lol.
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Shouldn't www.keysight.com/scopemonth be working now? It's after midnight PST on 1st. I'm getting a 404.
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It seems that Portugal is not included… :'(
Unfortunatly that's a sad true :'(
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It would be great if you could include the Netherlands next time. :-BROKE
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Shouldn't www.keysight.com/scopemonth (http://www.keysight.com/scopemonth) be working now? It's after midnight PST on 1st. I'm getting a 404.
Try this link:
http://www.scopemonth.com/ (http://www.scopemonth.com/)
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Shouldn't www.keysight.com/scopemonth (http://www.keysight.com/scopemonth) be working now? It's after midnight PST on 1st. I'm getting a 404.
Try this link:
http://www.scopemonth.com/ (http://www.scopemonth.com/)
I think that's something slightly different. If you open the T&Cs on the scopemonth.com page it says the main competition requires you to check the URL I posted from midnight PST on 1st March.
Never mind - scopemonth.com now redirects to the main competition.
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I was under the impression that they were only accepting entries until Midnight (EST) last night, but when I go to the entry page, I'm still able to enter....hmmmm? :-//
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There is no Slovakia on the list but Poland yes...
Anyways I have signed in my German colleague...
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I was under the impression that they were only accepting entries until Midnight (EST) last night, but when I go to the entry page, I'm still able to enter....hmmmm? :-//
Enter early and often! We'll accept entries up until the last drawing, and you can enter ONCE PER DAY WITH THE SAME E-MAIL.
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Dang Slovenia is not on the list. But hey at least its not US only.
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I was under the impression that they were only accepting entries until Midnight (EST) last night, but when I go to the entry page, I'm still able to enter....hmmmm? :-//
Enter early and often! We'll accept entries up until the last drawing, and you can enter ONCE PER DAY WITH THE SAME E-MAIL.
Ok, thanks for the clarification :-+
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Where to check is my country on the list?
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Where to check is my country on the list?
https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2677413&id=2677413 (https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2677413&id=2677413)
In the top right corner there is a small globe, click on that and there will be a few countries listed. If your country is not listed there, click "more" and that will give you the entire list of eligible countries (if I'm not mistaken).
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That draw was funny as hell... 1 fps no audio, 132 watching - Congrats to Gar(r)eth P. as the first winner.
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Where did you watch the drawing?
EDIT: Never mind, found it.
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Damn it! I'm computerless at the moment and my bloody iOS device is incapable of displaying the registration website to daily contest properly :scared:
Can anyone please tell me what I have to enter into the text box below the mail email address?
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Can anyone please tell me what I have to enter into the text box below the mail email address?
Your Country.
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Dear Mr. Bogdanoff,
I have a question. Just to make it clear.
E.g. If the winner is located in Germany:
- The scope will be shipped from your nearest sales Office?
(in this case: Keysight Technologies Deutschland GmbH, Boeblingen) :-+
or
- The scope will only be shipped from Keysight, Santa Rosa? :--
I firmly believe that your answer is interesting for all countries with your sales offices.
It would be great to get an answer to this one, or was it already answered?
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Can anyone please tell me what I have to enter into the text box below the mail email address?
Your Country.
Thanks dude :-+
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Seems Florida has screwed me again
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Even though I'm still getting 2 spams a week from the pre-contest signup, I didn't get the actual contest email :-//
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Even though I'm still getting 2 spams a week from the pre-contest signup, I didn't get the actual contest email :-//
I just signed up for both things and I have not gotten a single email from them.
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Dear Mr. Bogdanoff,
I have a question. Just to make it clear.
E.g. If the winner is located in Germany:
- The scope will be shipped from your nearest sales Office?
(in this case: Keysight Technologies Deutschland GmbH, Boeblingen) :-+
or
- The scope will only be shipped from Keysight, Santa Rosa? :--
I firmly believe that your answer is interesting for all countries with your sales offices.
It would be great to get an answer to this one, or was it already answered?
Sorry, missed this one. In general, the scope will come from a local distributor. There are a couple exceptions, but this is the general case. You'll be contacted via e-mail if you are a winner. Well, you're all winners (or something), but you'll be contacted if you win a scope.
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Even though I'm still getting 2 spams a week from the pre-contest signup, I didn't get the actual contest email :-//
I just signed up for both things and I have not gotten a single email from them.
You'll likely get an e-mail in the next 24 hours. We didn't send out automated e-mails to registrants.
That draw was funny as hell... 1 fps no audio, 132 watching - Congrats to Gar(r)eth P. as the first winner.
Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it! We're trying new hardware for Friday; I could tell by the grimaces in the room that something was wrong. Of course, it all went well when we tested it!
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That draw was funny as hell... 1 fps no audio, 132 watching - Congrats to Gar(r)eth P. as the first winner.
Ok, that does seem bad. Maybe the 'scope giveaway draws should be done live using Periscope?... seriously though - you could have a million watching live and get decent fps, compression and audio and the whole thing recorded... Just need a smartphone with the Periscope app? No brainer.
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It is indeed strange that The Netherlands is excluded.
I hope keysight is reading this thread and will comment on this - but normally no correspondence is performed with sweepstakes and the like....
Maybe next time they will not omit this country as a lot of electronics is developed here. Almost all chips produced globally are based upon the brains from the Dutch silicon area.
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Gladly I was able to sign-up for the draw today. Does it mean that Philippines is already illegible for the draw?
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I was under the impression that they were only accepting entries until Midnight (EST) last night, but when I go to the entry page, I'm still able to enter....hmmmm? :-//
Enter early and often! We'll accept entries up until the last drawing, and you can enter ONCE PER DAY WITH THE SAME E-MAIL.
Are you saying that one registration is good only for one day, and to participate in the next drawing one must register again?
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Good morning Keysight and welcome to the Internet. You must be new here.
I predict that every single one of the random chance giveaways will go to the botnet owners, the multiple email and IP address owners. Those who will just turn it around for 100% profit on eBay within hours. The truly deserving engineers will fall below the noise floor.
If you really believe this won't happen then you must have been asleep for the past 20 years. The internet pond life would turn out in their thousands for a hundred dollars of profit. Dangle the chance of thousands of dollars in front of them and you will be overwhelmed.
You should have gone straight to the YouTube community vote idea with descending prizes to the top 30+. A chance to empower a young generation of engineers is about to be lost because of lack of marketing foresight.
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Good morning Keysight and welcome to the Internet. You must be new here.
And there is not even a captcha there. That thing is so easy to automate, it is not even funny.
BTW, do we know how many entries were there on the first day? The 1 FPS video is too painful to watch.
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Good morning Keysight and welcome to the Internet. You must be new here.
I predict that every single one of the random chance giveaways will go to the botnet owners, the multiple email and IP address owners. Those who will just turn it around for 100% profit on eBay within hours. The truly deserving engineers will fall below the noise floor.
If you really believe this won't happen then you must have been asleep for the past 20 years. The internet pond life would turn out in their thousands for a hundred dollars of profit. Dangle the chance of thousands of dollars in front of them and you will be overwhelmed.
You should have gone straight to the YouTube community vote idea with descending prizes to the top 30+. A chance to empower a young generation of engineers is about to be lost because of lack of marketing foresight.
The unfortunate fact is that this will not likely be an issue for Keysight.
Giveaways like this are a marketing exercise - meant to raise the awareness of a new product, especially for people who would be inclined to buy one. It has a secondary component too - letting those people imagine actually having one on their bench as a realistic possibility (the odds aren't particularly relevant to this 'feeling'). This moves people towards a 'desire' for the new item - which is one step further toward a purchase.
The bottom line is that there will be only a certain number of winners - and many thousands of non-winners. This will be the case no matter who get the scopes.
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I predict that every single one of the random chance giveaways will go to the botnet owners, the multiple email and IP address owners. Those who will just turn it around for 100% profit on eBay within hours. The truly deserving engineers will fall below the noise floor.
You should have gone straight to the YouTube community vote idea with descending prizes to the top 30+. A chance to empower a young generation of engineers is about to be lost because of lack of marketing foresight.
We actually screen all the entries, so we'll catch the bots (at least the lazy ones).
We are going to the community for the 6000 X-Series "Test to Impress Giveaway'
The 1 FPS video is too painful to watch.
Sorry :( We'll make sure it's better for the next one on Friday. Dry runs all went well (best laid plans...)
Are you saying that one registration is good only for one day, and to participate in the next drawing one must register again?
No, each entry is good all month. You can get an extra entry each day.
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Seriously good promotion, Thanks. :-+
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Unluckily Italy is not in the country list: I know it is considered third world, but...
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Hey Daniel,
I noticed the Live webcast of the draw was only for the first daily, then first weekly winner. Is there a place to see the lucky people who win daily/weekly, so I congratulate them
while I curse them under my breath >:D
I swear I saw a link somewhere that said see winners (or equiv.) but can't remember where.
Thanks
Chris
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Hey Daniel,
I noticed the Live webcast of the draw was only for the first daily, then first weekly winner. Is there a place to see the lucky people who win daily/weekly, so I congratulate them
while I curse them under my breath >:D
I swear I saw a link somewhere that said see winners (or equiv.) but can't remember where.
Hi Chris, good question. We're working on getting a webpage up with a full list, but are planning on doing a video announcement daily:
http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
Good luck!
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How long will it be before someone on this forum wins one?
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I was just wondering, how many of the I'm in folks will just wanish after the draw, I mean here in the forum
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It's bound to happen, but I wouldn't dwell on it. However, the giveaway has not only raised the level of awareness of Keysight's new offerings, but has raised the profile of the EEVBlog.
There will likely be a few more active members and undoubtedly more visitors, but whatever the numbers, it can only be good for Dave.
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ya, I'm sure it's beneficial for both, I was just thinking about it, nothing more
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At first my country was "not yet available" but i could enter when i checked again now.
When i read the rules though, Norway was not listed. So i don't know
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Even though I'm still getting 2 spams a week from the pre-contest signup, I didn't get the actual contest email :-//
I just signed up for both things and I have not gotten a single email from them.
You'll likely get an e-mail in the next 24 hours. We didn't send out automated e-mails to registrants.
I received the email in Japanese! yesterday.
I am impressed.
Thank you for entire effort on this event.
I hope the top managers will understand the value of your effort on this forum to reach out to the community.
Based on my experience, not so many managers understand the value of increasing the company's image in the geekish community by participating in the community.
I hope you could be in this forum for ever. :)
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I just produced a video submission for the 6000 X-Series scope. Winning that contest would be a life changing opportunity for me by allowing me access to bigger fish. High-speed FPGA based signal processing with up to 3gbps serial outputs.
A box like this one would be amazing. Fingers crossed.
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We are going to the community for the 6000 X-Series "Test to Impress Giveaway'
Vote for me! A 6000 X-Series would be a tremendous leap for a small business like mine! It would never see eBay since I actually need it.
My submission is in......should I post it here for fun or keep it secret?
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Hey Daniel,
I noticed the Live webcast of the draw was only for the first daily, then first weekly winner. Is there a place to see the lucky people who win daily/weekly, so I congratulate them
while I curse them under my breath >:D
I swear I saw a link somewhere that said see winners (or equiv.) but can't remember where.
Hi Chris, good question. We're working on getting a webpage up with a full list, but are planning on doing a video announcement daily:
http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
Good luck!
Perfect, I'll keep an eye out for the daily videos, but I realized where I saw the link, immediately *after* entering the contest there is a link to see the
winners. The list has huge line spacing between the winners so I didn't even realize there were 2 in the list - day 2 was a K Lee (i think if I remember correctly).
I've got every finger and toe crossed for this and the eevblog dumpster ;D scopes , never know when it's your lucky day.
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We are going to the community for the 6000 X-Series "Test to Impress Giveaway'
Vote for me! A 6000 X-Series would be a tremendous leap for a small business like mine! It would never see eBay since I actually need it.
My submission is in......should I post it here for fun or keep it secret?
Sorry I need it more. :-)
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At first my country was "not yet available" but i could enter when i checked again now.
When i read the rules though, Norway was not listed. So i don't know
I do wonder what this means. Does the site not validate the form's country field? Are the rules incomplete/inaccurate?
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It seems that Portugal is not included… :'(
Unfortunatly that's a sad true :'(
Oh man, tough luck... :-\
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At first my country was "not yet available" but i could enter when i checked again now.
When i read the rules though, Norway was not listed. So i don't know
I do wonder what this means. Does the site not validate the form's country field? Are the rules incomplete/inaccurate?
My guess is that the written Ts & Cs and the website validation code haven't been particularly well coordinated.
If you were to successfully register using a contry not included, I'd guarantee you would be disqualified at the draw.
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At first my country was "not yet available" but i could enter when i checked again now.
When i read the rules though, Norway was not listed. So i don't know
I do wonder what this means. Does the site not validate the form's country field? Are the rules incomplete/inaccurate?
The site asks you to comfirm your country the first time you enter, so I confirmed that i live in Norway.
The first time i tried entering, I got a message saying "your country is not yet eligible", I tried again yesterday, and I was allowed to enter.
Well, can't hurt to try entering anyway!
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Man I wish I can get a good scope to replace my current 20MHz CRT job. That thing works but only when de
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Yeah; I'm not holding my breath to win anything. I have to admit; it's a neat marketing gesture!
I'm an it systems admin professionally; but I do hobby electronics with a local team. Too bad they're not giving away spectrum/network analyzers; most of the hobby projects I'm working on these days are all 3-6GHz RF, so I'm only testing designs when one of the other folks involved happens to be onsite with equipment.
Well, still crossing fingers for one of the 3000 series; that'd be a great upgrade over the rigol I'm using now.
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Another day that I did not win. Holding my breath is going to be hard to do.
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I hope I win but not highly doubt it.
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I've found a playlist of video draws on the Keysight YouTube channel :
https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope (https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope)
But all in all it seems pretty shabby!
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Will unclaimed prizes be placed in a dumpster somewhere ?, and if so would it be possible to post the coordinates of said dumpster ?.
:)
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I've found a playlist of video draws on the Keysight YouTube channel :
https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope (https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope)
But all in all it seems pretty shabby!
They are clearly not media professionals. As long as they are giving away awesome stuff, they get a pass on that.
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Will unclaimed prizes be placed in a dumpster somewhere ?, and if so would it be possible to post the coordinates of said dumpster ?.
Geocache hunt!
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Will unclaimed prizes ......
I couldn't get past that thought.
Not claiming such a prize? :o
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Not claiming such a prize? :o
Well, I still have not received a single email from them, so unless I monitor the winners list (which is not easy either), I will never know that I won :)
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I would like to think Keysight would make a bit of an effort in contacting a winner.
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I would like to think Keysight would make a bit of an effort in contacting a winner.
I just assume there is some technical problem. Others seem to receive at least spam. I got nothing :).
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Idea: Great
Implementation: sewn with a hot needle (different webforms, changing or 404 URLs, lack of clarity and feedback from the system, use of 3rd party webpages/services)
I've entered both webforms - the keysight one and that strange one on "promotions.spredfast.com" ...
on neigther one did I receive any email (to confirm communication is actually working) :(
Oh - and a small comment on the smallprint - to a normally brained person (no lawyer) it's really sounding like you're handing over your name and your soul + remaining posessions to Keysight in order to enter the contest.
Kudos to the legal dep. for failing to find human readable form like "to participate you must consent that your name can be used for announcing the winner". :-DD
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I registered beforehand and have done four daily entries on the page the scopemonth URL redirects to. I still haven't received an email.
What is more, I put 'UK' each time and on one occasion got a list of UK distributors to choose my 'preferred' one from (I chose Radiospares), but on the other 3 occasions I only got US distributors. So not everything is working properly.
I too am concerned that it would be too easy to write a script to do multiple entries, with random email addresses on one of my domains. I suspect that bot writers will get 10,000 entries for each genuine engineer's one. They may have to go back to drawing from an early day's entry if the number of entrants rises exponentially to exceed the number of humans on earth.
However, Keysight is doing the giving, so it's their call!
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I've found a playlist of video draws on the Keysight YouTube channel :
https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope (https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope)
But all in all it seems pretty shabby!
They are clearly not media professionals. As long as they are giving away awesome stuff, they get a pass on that.
LOL, nope. I have an EE degree.
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What is more, I put 'UK' each time and on one occasion got a list of UK distributors to choose my 'preferred' one from (I chose Radiospares), but on the other 3 occasions I only got US distributors. So not everything is working properly.
I have the same problem.
Yesterday, Radiospares (I believe they hate being called this :-\ ) appeared on the list. So I picked them, at least they exist here, have trade counter and I can drop in to pickup my winning... ::).
The other option is Element 14, now they also have an address in Ireland, but is a 'Brass Plate' address of the tax reduction type.
That is worse, Element 14/Farnell/CPC cannot even spell Dublin correctly on their website: Riverside One, Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Dubliln 2, Ireland.
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The list of distributors jumps from short to very long seemingly at random.
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The list of distributors jumps from short to very long seemingly at random.
so its not just me, first day like 3000 distributors, yesterday i had like 10!
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Hi folks,
We've been working on fine-tuning the system, so sorry for the changes. But, your entry still works & counts.
Also, there is NOT a confirmation e-mail. If you see the confirmation web page, your entry went through.
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Please.... randomly choose my name. My business / family / kids will be VERY thankful!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but the Scope Month entry form goes absolutely wacko on an iPad.
The JavaScript is broken, and constantly refreshes the page over and over and over. Impossible to fill out or submit the form.
I had to enter on my PC w/Chrome.
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but the Scope Month entry form goes absolutely wacko on an iPad.
The JavaScript is broken, and constantly refreshes the page over and over and over. Impossible to fill out or submit the form.
I had to enter on my PC w/Chrome.
Sorry for the trouble, we're working through it.
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Just entered again, but am concerned with entering once a day - if I enter inadvertently twice a day because of time zone differences and my entering in the morning one day and at evening or night the next - will I be blacklisted for cheating?
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will I be blacklisted for cheating?
Nope, the system will tell you that you are registered already.
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so its not just me, first day like 3000 distributors, yesterday i had like 10!
Well, it is now a text entry field, so it is only limited by your imagination :)
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I've found a playlist of video draws on the Keysight YouTube channel :
https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope (https://www.youtube.com/user/KeysightOscilloscope)
But all in all it seems pretty shabby!
They are clearly not media professionals. As long as they are giving away awesome stuff, they get a pass on that.
LOL, nope. I have an EE degree.
Since you are an engineer :) - Does it matter when in the 'day' the entry is made? The daily draw happens before 8am here, so I'm not sure when the cutoff for entries is and in which timezone.
Timezones are a PITA :)
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Timezones are a PITA in many ways. We should all switch to UTC.
According to ataradov, you'll be informed of a duplicate entry, so if you don't see one, you're probably fine.
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How long will it be before someone on this forum wins one?
No one yet? I find that a little surprising.
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Maybe they aren't admitting it yet ... After all, two scopes are better than one, aren't they?
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Maybe they aren't admitting it yet ... After all, two scopes are better than one, aren't they?
I would hope that most people would have the courtesy to admit that they already won and withdraw from the other drawings.
Maybe common courtesy isn't as common as it should be, however.
Then again, maybe they want to make sure that they have the scope in-hand before bowing out. Just in case.
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Give them the benefit of the doubt . . . they're really hoping to get a scope with Dave's mug O0 jumping out at them. Then they'd be happy to give back the plain vanilla scope :-BROKE (if you can call a 3000 series scope "plain vanilla") to Keysight.
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I really wanted to participate, but I work on a public university (most universities are public, at least in Poland), so it seems I'm not eligible :-// I really don't understand why you have excluded university staff :(
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I really wanted to participate, but I work on a public university (most universities are public, at least in Poland), so it seems I'm not eligible :-// I really don't understand why you have excluded university staff :(
It has to do with laws regarding "bribing" government officials. Have a friend or someone you know enter for you!
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Actually local law doesn't treat me as an "government official", only full professors (this title is given by a President of Poland not to be confused with an academic title/position) and some (so called nominated in opposite to contract) school teachers are treated like this.
Not a big deal, I wouldn't win anyway... oh well :(
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Timezones are a PITA in many ways. We should all switch to UTC.
According to ataradov, you'll be informed of a duplicate entry, so if you don't see one, you're probably fine.
Yep - but the concern is that I may be entering too early - after the draw but prior to the cutoff at start of the next day.
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Yep - but the concern is that I may be entering too early - after the draw but prior to the cutoff at start of the next day.
There is no cutoff, ALL your entries accumulate. By the end of all this you will have 30 or so entries, assuming you enter every day.
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Yep - but the concern is that I may be entering too early - after the draw but prior to the cutoff at start of the next day.
There is no cutoff, ALL your entries accumulate. By the end of all this you will have 30 or so entries, assuming you enter every day.
Nice, I was hoping that was the case.
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Maybe they aren't admitting it yet ... After all, two scopes are better than one, aren't they?
I would hope that most people would have the courtesy to admit that they already won and withdraw from the other drawings.
Maybe common courtesy isn't as common as it should be, however.
I was just being cheeky. The odds of winning one aren't encouraging ... let alone two.
Then again, maybe they want to make sure that they have the scope in-hand before bowing out. Just in case.
That's something I might do. Make an announcement with a photo of it on my bench...
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I won a scope from Keysight. An MSOX3104T. Instead of being happy, I'm terrified. It's $16,000 USD and I owe taxes on that. What percentage taxes can I expect to pay in the USA? Can I turn around and sell it?
Edit: The other possibility is someone hacked their website and want me to submit my social security number and address to them to steal my identity. I'll have to try to call the lady at Keysight in the morning to make sure this is real. The email included tax forms that need to be filled out.
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I won a scope from Keysight. An MSOX3104T. Instead of being happy, I'm terrified. It's $16,000 USD and I owe taxes on that. What percentage taxes can I expect to pay in the USA? Can I turn around and sell it?
Edit: The other possibility is someone hacked their website and want me to submit my social security number and address to them to steal my identity. I'll have to try to call the lady at Keysight in the morning to make sure this is real. The email included tax forms that need to be filled out.
Oh, congratulations :-[
It is a strange world where you can win something and still lose.
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The email included tax forms that need to be filled out.
If you are "Peter P", then chances are you actually won. Congrats, I guess :)
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I won a scope from Keysight. An MSOX3104T. Instead of being happy, I'm terrified. It's $16,000 USD and I owe taxes on that. What percentage taxes can I expect to pay in the USA? Can I turn around and sell it?
Edit: The other possibility is someone hacked their website and want me to submit my social security number and address to them to steal my identity. I'll have to try to call the lady at Keysight in the morning to make sure this is real. The email included tax forms that need to be filled out.
Congratulations!! You beat the odds.
Now comes the big challenge: The IRS.
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I think you have to pay sales tax and applicable income tax on the MSRP of the winnings. For this prize if you are in CA like me, would still cost more than most Rigol scopes just in taxes.
About $1600 in sales tax, and about $3,900 for income tax. Possible lower, but not much lower. The $1600 would be due immediately and the $3,900 would be paid at the next tax year return date. Obviously still a win overall, but not really FREE of course. Nothing is free. Ever.
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I think you have to pay sales tax and applicable income tax on the MSRP of the winnings. For this prize if you are in CA like me, would still cost more than most Rigol scopes just in taxes.
About $1600 in sales tax, and about $3,900 for income tax. Possible lower, but not much lower. The $1600 would be due immediately and the $3,900 would be paid at the next tax year return date. Obviously still a win overall, but not really FREE of course. Nothing is free. Ever.
So you have to pay the government $5,500 for something somebody wants to give you for free? Wow!
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So you have to pay the government $5,500 for something somebody wants to give you for free? Wow!
You would pay exact same amount if you were to buy it yourself. Otherwise there are so many holes that can be opened. For example you could get your salary in scopes tax-free :)
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It is treated like any other income - the government does not care where it comes from or if you worked for it as long as they get their cut.
Fighter jets and cruise missiles are super expensive.
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So this whole giveaway event is a government organized conspiracy to get some money for more fighter jets
:scared:
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So you have to pay the government $5,500 for something somebody wants to give you for free? Wow!
You would pay exact same amount if you were to buy it yourself. Otherwise there are so many holes that can be opened. For example you could get your salary in scopes tax-free :)
It's been mentioned before that noone pays retail for decent scopes. So I expect the winner would actually be paying more tax than if they brought it themselves.
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I'm leaning towards declining the prize. I'm assuming I can do that right? I'm a hobbyist. I don't need a $16000 scope. Sure, it would be nice to have one, but not if I have to pay the taxes.
9. Winner Notification. Any potential winner will be notified by mail, email and/or telephone. If a potential winner cannot be contacted, does not respond within fourteen days from the date that Keysight first tries to notify him/her, and/or the prize or prize notification is returned as undeliverable, such potential winner forfeits all rights to win the promotion or receive the prize, and an alternate potential winner will be selected. Upon contacting a potential winner and determining that he/she has met all eligibility requirements of the promotion, including without limitation, where permitted by law, the execution of required waivers, publicity and liability releases and disclaimers, such individual will be declared a "winner" of the promotion. In accordance with local laws, if the selected entrant is a Canadian or South African resident, that entrant will be required to answer a mathematical skill-testing question, without assistance of any kind (whether mechanical or otherwise), within the time frame provided above. Keysight assumes no responsibility for lost, late, or misdirected communications or any computer, online, telephone, or technical malfunctions that may occur. No substitution, transfer, or assignment of the prize is permitted, except that Keysight reserves the right to substitute a prize of equivalent value in the event the offered prize is unavailable.
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So you have to pay the government $5,500 for something somebody wants to give you for free? Wow!
You would pay exact same amount if you were to buy it yourself. Otherwise there are so many holes that can be opened. For example you could get your salary in scopes tax-free :)
Under our (NZ) tax law, for the most part winnings are tax free - you win $1M on the lottery or at the casino, you get $1M in your account and don't have to pay tax... interest you earn on that money does incur income tax, or anything you buy with that money incurs sales.
With a few exceptions like if you were a professional poker player,of course.
IIRC, when a large prize is involved (e.g. a car), the organizer of the lottery has to pay the sales tax to the government. Conceptually they have to by it with their money and gift it to you.
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I'm leaning towards declining the prize. I'm assuming I can do that right? I'm a hobbyist. I don't need a $16000 scope. Sure, it would be nice to have one, but not if I have to pay the taxes.
Pay the taxes, sell the prize scope to recoup your out-of-pocket expenses with plenty left over. Buy the 100 MHz version of the scope, which will be functionally identical in every respect, unless you're actually involved in projects that require the bandwidth. Anything left over is a bonus.
I've no doubt at all that there will be someone on the forum local to you who will make a cash offer for your prize scope, if the taxes cause a major cash flow problem. You won't get anywhere near the full MSRP for it, but you'll still end up with a great prize.
Congratulations!
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We all feel your pain and what a dilemma to have, I would have been over the moon with just a U1282A multimeter or a new set of Keysight leads, a 16 grand scope is a bit over the top for most of us amateurs, not that I’m knocking one back Dave…. :)
I have very limited knowledge of the legalities in relation to gifts in our own country let alone those in others but is there any chance that you could get in contact with a local Keysight distributor and ask if they would be willing to exchange it for some other equipment of a lesser value and let them wear the additional costs, I’m pretty sure someone else also mentioned a similar thing where they simply didn’t need a scope of this calibre and would rather acquire a collection of other more useful equipment instead.
As mentioned I really don’t know whether it could be done or if a distributor would be permitted or even agree but it might be worth asking before receipt of the scope after which time you may be liable for the additional costs involved, better something less than nothing at all, also in the near future we may see a number of these turn up on Ebay in particular countries at exceptional prices where people just need to cash them in to pay for the unexpected expenses.
Others may have some better suggestions or even be willing to purchase it from you as AndyC mentioned above, either way we all congratulate and wish you well and hope that the outcome is satisfactory.
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...but is there any chance that you could get in contact with a local Keysight distributor and ask if they would be willing to exchange it for some other equipment of a lesser value and let them wear the additional costs, I’m pretty sure someone else also mentioned a similar thing where they simply didn’t need a scope of this calibre and would rather acquire a collection of other more useful equipment instead.
From the terms and conditions:
No substitution, transfer, or assignment of the prize is permitted
I can't even contact them to ask since that would constitute a "contact" under the terms and conditions.
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For an individual, the size of the prize is a curse. A $1000-$2000 prize would be more appropriate and more affordable.
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Not always. I plan to buy a new scope this year for my private lab. The ideal price tag is around 2000...3000 Euro (...3200$). If I were one of the lucky winners, I would love to invest that money+x for such a dream scope. Is a bit unreasonable, but it's my job and my hobby...
This marketing campaign aims more to professionals than hobbyists. Maybe Keysight should start another Scope Equipment Month for students and hobbyists with equipment from the lower price end.
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Yes, Keysight is geared toward businesses. But I suspect most of the people entering the giveaway are individuals.
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Keysight could set up a webpage with the exact or estimated conditions, costs, tax, contact data (local distributor) etc. for each approved country. This should be possible for the publicity department and/or lawyers of such a international selling company.
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Keysight could set up a webpage with the exact or estimated conditions, costs, tax, contact data (local distributor) etc. for each approved country. This should be possible for the publicity department and/or lawyers of such a international selling company.
I would think that might be risky.
The best thing they could do is simply point out that any tax and customs issues are the responsibility of the recipient ... which they have done. It would be somewhat of an effort to do something like that for all participating countries - and there would be hell to pay if they got something wrong.
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Yes, life is somewhat risky. Lawyers could magically handle this with words on paper. ;) But there are only 17 participating countries outside the USA. And there are local Keysight distributors in each of these countries. They could do the delivery without extra customs payments? Maybe I'm wrong because I am an EE not a lawyer.
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Yes, Keysight is geared toward businesses. But I suspect most of the people entering the giveaway are individuals.
Do some research on what your tax liability actually is and when you have to pay. It could be a year before you have a cash liability which is plenty of time to sell it at a cash profit.
Sent from my horrible mobile....
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Unless some new piece of information comes to light, I will wait 14 days without contacting Keysight and forfeit my prize. That puts it back into the pool for you guys to win should you want to.
Ultimately it's my fault for not knowing how much these scopes cost. My Rigol was only $400. If I knew they were $16000+ dollars, I might have not applied. That combined with the fact that I live in a country with an aggressive tax authority, makes for a difficult situation.
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Hi Peter,
here is some good info on sweepstakes tax in the US: http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html (http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html)
But to be honest - I think if you accept the price and put it up for sale - you will come out with a profit enough to buy a great scope for yourself. But if you are lucky Keysight will help as much as they can - including providing their cost price or dealer price as the value as per above listed article.
There might even be a forum member here who can/will help you and buy the scope of you. So maybe put it in the for sale section - post where you live and see if someone local will help out against some form of security. Then at least you get something out of the deal. But find a buyer first :) before accepting...
But stay positive! :) and congratulations!
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Hi Peter,
here is some good info on sweepstakes tax in the US: http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html (http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html)
But to be honest - I think if you accept the price and put it up for sale - you will come out with a profit enough to buy a great scope for yourself. But if you are lucky Keysight will help as much as they can - including providing their cost price or dealer price as the value as per above listed article.
I can't even contact them to ask since that would constitute a "contact" under the terms and conditions.
An important point from that article :- A winner is exempt from taxes if they refuse to accept the prize.
If that is correct then Peter could contact Keysight without risk as he can simply refuse to accept the prize.
Blah IANAL blah.
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Hi Peter,
here is some good info on sweepstakes tax in the US: http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html (http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html)
But to be honest - I think if you accept the price and put it up for sale - you will come out with a profit enough to buy a great scope for yourself. But if you are lucky Keysight will help as much as they can - including providing their cost price or dealer price as the value as per above listed article.
I can't even contact them to ask since that would constitute a "contact" under the terms and conditions.
An important point from that article :- A winner is exempt from taxes if they refuse to accept the prize.
If that is correct then Peter could contact Keysight without risk as he can simply refuse to accept the prize.
Blah IANAL blah.
As I said - I think Keysight will help find the best possible solution :) somehow - they are not an evil Danaher Corp... :-DD
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As I said - I think Keysight will help find the best possible solution :) somehow - they are not an evil Danaher Corp... :-DD
Yeah I completely agree - but from his post earlier Peter thought his only 100% safe way out was to _not_ contact them.
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As I said - I think Keysight will help find the best possible solution :) somehow - they are not an evil Danaher Corp... :-DD
Yeah I completely agree - but from his post earlier Peter thought his only 100% safe way out was to _not_ contact them.
We're working on it! We don't want this to be a burden to win, but absolutely must stay legally compliant.
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Germany strikes again.
I was contacted by a winner of the weekly 4000X scope in Germany and it's going to cost 30% in taxes (on the retail price of this, that's HUGE) for him to collect it.
He can't even donate it to the local Hackerspace :palm:
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Depending on who you are, it could be 30% in the USA as well.
My wife is a CPA and I am hoping she can help me understand. If I won the 6000x it could cost me $25k in taxes from what I can tell so far. That would be a bit rough.
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here it would be even worse, it's 60% in taxes, absurd...I know, you must be very frustrated, win and can't colect, I hope something works out for you
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Good news, I just got word from my CPA tax professional (wife in this case) that my losses from last year are enough to offset winning the $70k 6000 X-Series without having to pay a dime. That would take some of the sting from the R&D I spent the last couple of years.
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.... that my losses from last year are enough to offset winning the $70k 6000 X-Series
Um... errr .... that is good news .... I think.
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.... that my losses from last year are enough to offset winning the $70k 6000 X-Series
Um... errr .... that is good news .... I think.
Last 2 years were R&D years, so it was all spending and no selling. This year, I hope to sell my new developments. Quite nervous since it is all a personal investment - fingers crossed. A big win would really help achieve the dreams I am chasing.
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In the terms and conditions it says "Winners of this sweepstakes agree to provide a written quote for publication regarding the use of the prize within 6 months of receiving the prize."
I'm assuming they are hoping you will provide a nice story on what you do with the scope, which they can use for marketing material. The reality is most people will end up saying "Sold it to pay the tax liability."
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.... that my losses from last year are enough to offset winning the $70k 6000 X-Series
Um... errr .... that is good news .... I think.
Last 2 years were R&D years, so it was all spending and no selling. This year, I hope to sell my new developments. Quite nervous since it is all a personal investment - fingers crossed. A big win would really help achieve the dreams I am chasing.
OK then. Best of luck with your venture.
I'll cross some fingers for you over on this side of the Pacific.
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Good news, I just got word from my CPA tax professional (wife in this case) that my losses from last year are enough to offset winning the $70k 6000 X-Series without having to pay a dime. That would take some of the sting from the R&D I spent the last couple of years.
That's still money out of your pocket eventually! There ain't no free lunch when it comes to the tax department.
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I'm assuming they are hoping you will provide a nice story on what you do with the scope, which they can use for marketing material. The reality is most people will end up saying "Sold it to pay the tax liability."
Just give'em some fairy tale story filled with synergy buzzword and they'll be on their way ;D
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Last 2 years were R&D years, so it was all spending and no selling. This year, I hope to sell my new developments. Quite nervous since it is all a personal investment - fingers crossed. A big win would really help achieve the dreams I am chasing.
Wow, 2 years of personal R&D is a big gamble, good luck. Anything people on here would be interested in?
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Germany strikes again.
I was contacted by a winner of the weekly 4000X scope in Germany and it's going to cost 30% in taxes (on the retail price of this, that's HUGE) for him to collect it.
He can't even donate it to the local Hackerspace :palm:
If I understood Daniel correctly they will ship the prize form al local office. If that is true there will be no import taxes.
And as long as it is a random draw (e.g. lottery) you don´t have to pay income tax.
In case of the 6000-series scope its different. When you have to "do something" for a prize (e.g. win a quiz or game of poker) it is taken as income and you have to pay the tax.
I´m no lawyer but that´s my understanding of our law. ;D
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In the UK sweepstake lottery winnings are mostly tax free. In Denmark I think there is a 15% tax but not certain as it has been 10+ years since I kept up to date there.
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Good news, I just got word from my CPA tax professional (wife in this case) that my losses from last year are enough to offset winning the $70k 6000 X-Series without having to pay a dime. That would take some of the sting from the R&D I spent the last couple of years.
And remember - if you put it in as an asset - you can do an annual write off as well - so you will "recoup" your losses again over a few years. I don't know how that works with winnings but if they want you to pay tax on the Win - they will have to accept write-off on the equipment value as well. :) But get your wife to double check (Well my wife is a CPA & CTA - but not on my smallish level *G*)
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When you enter, there's a field to choose your prefered distributor.
I assume that every official distributor can deliver your price. It's like Keysight buys the scope for you.
You just have to choose a local distributor and there will be no taxes. :-+
Greetings
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I'm curious on how many entries did enter the contest yet - can you guys provide some info on that?
Also some feedback to the webform:
I first didn't see the message showing on top when entering again too fast:
- it was outside the visible area on my screen while submitting the form (yeah, modern screen form-factors)
- it quickly went away on it's own (just leave it there?)
Suggestion: let the error-message tell in how many hours or at what time (and timezone) the next entry will be allowed
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If I understood Daniel correctly they will ship the prize form al local office. If that is true there will be no import taxes.
And as long as it is a random draw (e.g. lottery) you don´t have to pay income tax.
In case of the 6000-series scope its different. When you have to "do something" for a prize (e.g. win a quiz or game of poker) it is taken as income and you have to pay the tax.
I´m no lawyer but that´s my understanding of our law. ;D
Hi folks,
Our legal team has looked pretty exhaustively into doing whatever we can to make sure we're both compliant AND helpful. Every country has very different laws regarding skill based vs luck based contests and how they are initiated, managed, fulfilled, and taxed. If you win, the scope may or may not come from a distributor; it really depends on the country/region.
We're working on some options on the back-end to try to make winner's taxes more manageable. If you win, we'll talk more about it! :)
Obligatory link to the daily winner playlist: http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
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Hi folks,
Our legal team has looked pretty exhaustively into doing whatever we can to make sure we're both compliant AND helpful. Every country has very different laws regarding skill based vs luck based contests and how they are initiated, managed, fulfilled, and taxed. If you win, the scope may or may not come from a distributor; it really depends on the country/region.
We're working on some options on the back-end to try to make winner's taxes more manageable. If you win, we'll talk more about it! :)
Obligatory link to the daily winner playlist: http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
That is rather impressive that Keysight is allocating legal resources to study the contest with the goal of finding the best path for the winners.
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Hi folks,
Our legal team has looked pretty exhaustively into doing whatever we can to make sure we're both compliant AND helpful. Every country has very different laws regarding skill based vs luck based contests and how they are initiated, managed, fulfilled, and taxed. If you win, the scope may or may not come from a distributor; it really depends on the country/region.
We're working on some options on the back-end to try to make winner's taxes more manageable. If you win, we'll talk more about it! :)
Obligatory link to the daily winner playlist: http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
That is rather impressive that Keysight is allocating legal resources to study the contest with the goal of finding the best path for the winners.
Agreed, I'm also thoroughly impressed that Keysight (and Daniel for that matter) have been so transparent/helpful, while also engaging us here on the EEVblog forum :-+
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That is rather impressive that Keysight is allocating legal resources to study the contest with the goal of finding the best path for the winners.
They kind of have to. Otherwise the thing turns into thousands of disappointed people because they lost, and 35 of disappointed people because they won :)
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Legal and tax advice don't mix. I have both seen and experienced this my self. Even though it goes against my tight arse nature, there comes a time when spending money on a proper tax consultant with local knowledge more than pays off.
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Legal and tax advice don't mix.
Tell that to my wife who has a law degree and is a CTA & CPA *G*
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Wow, 2 years of personal R&D is a big gamble, good luck. Anything people on here would be interested in?
Yep, but believe it or not - this is my third time taking a gamble like this. Electronics is my third major career endeavor. My final chapter will be combining all of the skills and experiences - but I am still on the learning curve with EE.
The 2 years had to cover my own personal learning curve getting back into EE. I went half-way through an EE program ending in 1993, now I had to intensely self-educate to get anything done. It also had to cover mechanical, electronic, and software design of a product family with a long marketable life span. Since I could not afford a team - I simply had to suck it up and do the whole thing from concept to design to engineering to CNC machining to designing the manufacturing process, marketing, etc. All day, every day. No breaks. Lots of coffee and cheap food. My entire bench is made from eBay test gear that is 10-15 years old. It's a very cobbled system overall, but I have the ability to go from soup to nuts very fast. I resurrected a pick and place machine, a laser engraver, power supplies, designed and manufactured countless tools and fixtures.
The end result is a family of brute strength power management products aimed at camera systems used motion picture and television production. I should send one of the first ones in for a tear down. The biggest drawback of a 1-man-band is that I get no critical feedback from anyone. My previous companies had employees that would point out my design weak spots early in the process. Now, I tend to find the problems late in the game. A tear-down by another engineer would be eye opening - good or bad.
I want to win the 6000 x series pretty bad. A scope like that will allow me to skip a couple of painful years and make some use of the hard work I have put in so far.
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Keysight just sent me an email offering to let me choose a lower priced scope from the 3000T series.
Anything from this series:
http://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-x205216/infiniivision-3000t-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32541.0&cc=US&lc=eng (http://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-x205216/infiniivision-3000t-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32541.0&cc=US&lc=eng)
Which makes sense since they are trying to promote their new touch series.
Now I just have to figure out which one I can afford to pay taxes on...
Thanks Keysight! I'm glad they were willing to work with us.
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Fantastic! I wish I was making the same decisions as you.
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Legal and tax advice don't mix.
Tell that to my wife who has a law degree and is a CTA & CPA *G*
I have already told that myself to one of the top legal companies, a few years ago, but that's another rant.
Only last week I saw another example, where our landlord's solicitor thought that paying rent quarterly March, June, Sept, Dec at the end of each month and changing to paying Jan, April, July, Oct at the start of each month, meant that a quarters rent was missing. It came with a snotty letter full of legalese and printout of a spreadsheet detailing 6 years of rent payments. 4 years ago when the change happened their were 3 payments in the year. But basic maths is obviously not their strong point. I spotted the sequence changing in seconds and the landlord (an elderly farmer) could not under stand the problem, because he would notice himself if €6+k did not arrive in his account...
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Keysight just sent me an email offering to let me choose a lower priced scope from the 3000T series.
Anything from this series:
http://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-x205216/infiniivision-3000t-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32541.0&cc=US&lc=eng (http://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-x205216/infiniivision-3000t-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32541.0&cc=US&lc=eng)
Which makes sense since they are trying to promote their new touch series.
Now I just have to figure out which one I can afford to pay taxes on...
Thanks Keysight! I'm glad they were willing to work with us.
hey that's nice :) good "choosing"
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Any thoughts on MSO vs. DSO? I do tend to work with Arduino and similar stuff.
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The MSO will be helpful dealing with all the logic - i2c, SPI, UART, etc.
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Welp... didn't think this would be my "first post", but I got selected yesterday. Much like Peter, I've been a little torn on what to do. First, I had to convince myself this was all legit... especially since the email they sent asked for a completed W-9! That, and that tiny, little part about paying taxes on a $16k scope... So, I've been reading through this thread today to get some more insight and lo and behold, Peter offers up a little nugget about picking a cheaper scope. Dang, this might just be doable. Don't have much need for 1Ghz, but 200 or 350 MHz might be easier to swallow - not to mention higher SAF.
Just wondering... Dave had alluded to all the software options being enabled. Is this true? If so, does this get added to the value?
Jared
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It depends on whether or not it is documented, but I suspect that Keysight has all that buttoned up and the associated value will be on the paperwork and you will pay the tax on the MSRP of the option.
Curious if they could just issue a key without the paperwork since it does not effect inventory. That would take the value down quite a bit and lower the tax liability.
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When you enter, there's a field to choose your prefered distributor.
I assume that every official distributor can deliver your price. It's like Keysight buys the scope for you.
You just have to choose a local distributor and there will be no taxes. :-+
I would like to think you are right, but unfortunately I suspect not. When an EU distributor stocks or imports to order a Keysight scope I strongly suspect the distributor pays the VAT and import duty on the scope at wholesale value. Which is some significant percentage under list price. When he sells it he either recoups the import duty from the buyer or absorbs it from his considerable profit. Whatever price he agrees with the customer, he then *adds the VAT* on that price. He accounts to the VAT administrators for the VAT he has paid and the VAT he has received and the result is that he neither gains nor loses on VAT.
If it is a gift from Keysight to a customer he probably has to pay the VAT and duty on the full list price, as he is not buying it himself so wholesale price does not come into it - has no meaning in the context. Equally he can still only reclaim the VAT from the customer.
So, unless Keysight actually import the scope to the EU themselves, to a local office, and then hand it over to the prize winner or the dealer, one might have to pay the VAT and duty. If Keysight are not used to importing scopes themselves it seems unlikely they will have any system to do it.
I await clarification from an EU winner!
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Peter, it's only a $1500 difference. Assuming the extra taxes are on the order of $375, it might be worth it. That said, I'd probably hunt for some videos showing the LA in action to see if it meets your needs.
Thanks, BTW, for posting about the offer to pick a cheaper scope... I'm considering doing the same.
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Just so it's out there.... I will pay the tax on your 4000x and relieve the burden after you send to me :-DD
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Just a thought regarding the sales tax component of the prize which was mentioned earlier.
In NZ you could register yourself for our GST, pay the tax, and then claim that tax back later.
Perhaps this is also possible in other countries?
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PSA:
If you've won, congrats! Please respond to our e-mails |O; talking to us won't force you to be stuck with taxes, etc. If you've won and are concerned about it, talk to us. Thanks and good luck!
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Just a thought regarding the sales tax component of the prize which was mentioned earlier.
In NZ you could register yourself for our GST, pay the tax, and then claim that tax back later.
Perhaps this is also possible in other countries?
Yes it is in the UK. You can also register for VAT "after the event" providing you keep receipts etc, and then when selling the item on pay the HMRC.
Oh, when you get a VAT inspection they do focus on the biggest ticket items you have bought. So that invoice is crucial.
Now it has to be said this kind of scope is really not a consumer item at all - which goes in your favour. You can register as self employed or limited company, and only a perverse VAT inspector would try and claim it is for personal use (unlike an iPhone for example).
But it also makes one wonder why Keysight are dishing them out to all and sundry as if they are mere hobbyist toys to be won?
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In NZ you could register yourself for our GST, pay the tax, and then claim that tax back later.
Perhaps this is also possible in other countries?
In the NL there is a requirement to work to work close to fulltime in your own company in order to be eligible for such tax returns (or basically make the equipment company property instead of your private belongings). I'm quite sure other countries have similar requirements. All in all Keysight would do well by sending the equipment to a price winner through a local distributor to avoid import taxes for the price winner. In case of the EU this distributor could be in a different country (note the EU is not Europe!).
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All this VAT stuff would only apply if the scope is despatched outside the EU. If it's from, say, Farnell then it wouldn't apply. Indeed I imagine the invoice you get with a prize like this would show zero vat as it didn't cost anything.
I think the real problem are countries that treat prizes as income (like the USA it appears). I've never understood the USA tax system, especially the double taxation of incomes earned abroad for example. For such a libertarian-lite capitalist system they sure do love those taxes.
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If you've won and are concerned about it, talk to us. Thanks and good luck!
I haven't won, yet, but am glad to see all that Keysight is doing especially with regard to helping sort out the legal issues. The contest had a bumpy start, but kudos to Daniel for keeping on top of things. Hopefully, after ironing out the details on this one will result in more such promotional activities in the future.
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I2C and SPI decoding adds another $1100 to the price. I'm not sure MSO would be worth it if nothing is included.
What about 4 channels or 200Mhz vs. 100Mhz? If you had to choose between more channels or higher bandwidth?
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I2C and SPI decoding adds another $1100 to the price. I'm not sure MSO would be worth it if nothing is included.
What about 4 channels or 200Mhz vs. 100Mhz? If you had to choose between more channels or higher bandwidth?
Ask for a Keysight refurbished one and get both :)
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PSA:
If you've won, congrats! Please respond to our e-mails |O; talking to us won't force you to be stuck with taxes, etc. If you've won and are concerned about it, talk to us. Thanks and good luck!
I wouldn't have this problem - if only Australia was eligible.
.... but I do feel for the people that do.
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Our legal team has looked pretty exhaustively into doing whatever we can to make sure we're both compliant AND helpful.
Daniel has been helpful. But now that it seems that Keysight is allowing winners to pick lower priced (ie, lower taxed) models, I really wish I could get through the block against those of us who work for Government agencies. My workplace has nothing to do with electronic test equipment, and we make no purchase decisions about any. US Federal ethics laws (yes, i paid attention during the mandatory training) would allow me to participate and even win, since I would have the same chance as any other citizen of the US (or any other country). My job gives me no advantage over anybody else. I understand Keysight's desire to avoid the appearance of bribery or influencing, but it is unnecessary.
--adam
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If you had to choose between more channels or higher bandwidth?
Unless I really had a need for higher bandwidth, I'd choose more channels.
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That can be hard to decide but I think I would go with a higher bandwidth, as I tend to do more of RF work. If you do more of low speed digital then go with more channels.
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Keysight just sent me an email offering to let me choose a lower priced scope from the 3000T series.
It does feel like a shame to leave so much of the prize value effectively unclaimed. Surely there must be someone who would buy the 1GHz model off you for the cost of (taxes on 1GHz) + (brand new lower cost scope)?
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All this VAT stuff would only apply if the scope is despatched outside the EU. If it's from, say, Farnell then it wouldn't apply. Indeed I imagine the invoice you get with a prize like this would show zero vat as it didn't cost anything.
I think the real problem are countries that treat prizes as income (like the USA it appears). I've never understood the USA tax system, especially the double taxation of incomes earned abroad for example. For such a libertarian-lite capitalist system they sure do love those taxes.
Then there are those that specifically tax prizes as an entirely separate thing.
It can get really ridiculous. Think 20% off a lottery prize if it's cash and a whopping 45% if it's a "promotional" prize other than cash. And if you're a company, you get the pleasure of having the prize classified as revenue (full value, since the 45% is owed by the promoter of the contest!) and taxed accordingly at a pleasant (in comparison) 21%.
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It can get really ridiculous. Think 20% off a lottery prize if it's cash and a whopping 45% if it's a "promotional" prize other than cash. And if you're a company, you get the pleasure of having the prize classified as revenue (full value, since the 45% is owed by the promoter of the contest!) and taxed accordingly at a pleasant (in comparison) 21%.
You could always move to another country :-\
From the Irish Tax Man: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/cat/leaflets/cat1.html (http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/cat/leaflets/cat1.html)
Are there any exemptions from Gift Tax?
- lottery and similar winnings
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I was curious how the US is taxing gifts and I cannot find anything except that keysight might have to pay gift tax on the value of the scope above $14 000.- and only if they gave away more then $5million in their existence(treating the same as a natural person)
If you receive a gift you do not have to pay tax in the US, at least not federal.
OK I guess it is not a gift but .... a sweepstakes ..... the rules..... It is just regarded as income tax federally,
so personal deduction $4000 standard deduction $6300
amount of tax above that 10% to 39.6%, if you have the pay 39.6% you can afford that scope ;)
So if you make more then $9 275.- + $10 300.- you pay 15% tax
over $37 651.- + $10 300.- 25% tax
At that income the Promotional price $14,525.00 at Newark makes $3 631.25 of tax and that is some serious money.
If you make more then a grand a year the scope will get more expensive(28%), but you should be able to afford it.
State tax from 0% to 10% Which can considerable, most states do have a scale the more you make the more you pay, CA does not tax sweepstakes which is good cause CA state tax is 13.3% If you make more then a million.
If the sweepstakes prize is worth more than $5,000, the sponsor must withhold 25 percent of the prize value for federal taxes and may have to withhold state taxes as well.
Ouch, other nice detail if,
The sweepstakes sponsor could choose to pay the federal tax withholding, but if it does, the sponsor’s withholding rate is one-third of the prize’s fair market value.
Now I do not get this do they pay 1/3 of $14.5K to the government or do they pay income tax over 1/3 of $14.5K ?
source: http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html (http://finance.zacks.com/much-state-federal-tax-owed-sweepstakes-winnings-6171.html)
p.s. If you don't claim the prize for yourself but instead assign the prize to charity, you are exempt of taxes. However you don’t get a charitable donation deduction. So that is another option if you have a makerspace or something else close by.
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I got a response back from Keysight. Turns out the scope does not include the software bundle as alluded to by Dave. Hrm... that makes it much less useful to me. I was actually hoping to keep the scope and not go through the hassle of selling it - thus the consideration of a lesser scope. Anyway, I emailed back, asking if they'd be willing to include the app bundle and LAN module on a lesser scope. The total is much less than $16k, so seems reasonable...?
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as alluded to by Dave
I believe Dave was talking about his two units, not the mass giveaway ones.
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I'm hoping that soon somebody is picked that just says "thanks" rather than moaning about how difficult winning had been for them.
Nobody wants to pay loads of tax and it sounds like Keysight are trying to be as helpful as they can, but if you don't want to win then don't enter.
This goes for the EEVBlog giveaway too. Even with Dave doing his best with the dumpster find 'scopes, the winner may end up having to pay some costs. I believe in the UK for instance that you're expected to pay VAT on the fair market value of something, not necessarily what you paid for it.
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I'm hoping that soon somebody is picked that just says "thanks" rather than moaning about how difficult winning had been for them.
Nobody wants to pay loads of tax and it sounds like Keysight are trying to be as helpful as they can, but if you don't want to win then don't enter.
This goes for the EEVBlog giveaway too. Even with Dave doing his best with the dumpster find 'scopes, the winner may end up having to pay some costs. I believe in the UK for instance that you're expected to pay VAT on the fair market value of something, not necessarily what you paid for it.
I don't think anyone is being ungrateful, and everyone here is doing their best to help out.
It is just an unfortunate fact that the US winners have to work with what appears to be a comparatively harsh tax system.
The tax amounts which have been mentioned in the US are some pretty serious $$$.
Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!
I think Keysight might consider used scopes for their next promo - that would let them drop the fair market value significantly and reduce the liability.
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If I win....can you just take it out of the box, scratch the side of it and call it damaged/used? :-//
Either way, I have the tax thing all worked out if I win. I promise I will jump up and down!
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Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!
Yes - you can. If your country will charge you 25% (for whatever reason) then don't enter a competition for a $16k scope unless you're prepared to cover that $4k. If you can reduce it then great, but be prepared for it.
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If I win....can you just take it out of the box, scratch the side of it and call it damaged/used? :-//
Either way, I have the tax thing all worked out if I win. I promise I will jump up and down!
Not a bad idea...
Is it working at all? Maybe there is some crusty soldering at the mains plug? ;)
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Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!
Yes - you can. If your country will charge you 25% (for whatever reason) then don't enter a competition for a $16k scope unless you're prepared to cover that $4k. If you can reduce it then great, but be prepared for it.
+1
I am fully configured to win the 6000x
Vote for my video submission! C. Acosta
@Daniel - can I upload another video for the 6000x contest? Either as a separate entry or to replace the one already submitted?
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Its not like you can budget and plan for winning a prize...!!
Yes - you can. If your country will charge you 25% (for whatever reason) then don't enter a competition for a $16k scope unless you're prepared to cover that $4k. If you can reduce it then great, but be prepared for it.
Of course - assuming you are aware of the 25% in the first place. I was talking about a more formal level of budgeting.
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Any thoughts on MSO vs. DSO? I do tend to work with Arduino and similar stuff.
MSO upgrade should be free - they have a promo on:
http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2676527&nid=-32538.1150268.00&id=2676527&cmpid=zzfindsupercharge_mso (http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2676527&nid=-32538.1150268.00&id=2676527&cmpid=zzfindsupercharge_mso)
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Welp... didn't think this would be my "first post", but I got selected yesterday. Much like Peter, I've been a little torn on what to do. First, I had to convince myself this was all legit... especially since the email they sent asked for a completed W-9! That, and that tiny, little part about paying taxes on a $16k scope... So, I've been reading through this thread today to get some more insight and lo and behold, Peter offers up a little nugget about picking a cheaper scope. Dang, this might just be doable. Don't have much need for 1Ghz, but 200 or 350 MHz might be easier to swallow - not to mention higher SAF.
Just wondering... Dave had alluded to all the software options being enabled. Is this true? If so, does this get added to the value?
Jared
Congrats on the win, I definitely got a little excited when Daniel announced that the winner was Jared....
Until he announced the last initial |O.
But again, congrats on the win, and to anyone else who has won! :-+
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I really wish I could get through the block against those of us who work for Government agencies.
How about just not telling them - how would they find out?
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I am fully configured to win the 6000x
Vote for my video submission! C. Acosta
@Daniel - can I upload another video for the 6000x contest? Either as a separate entry or to replace the one already submitted?
Yes, feel free to upload another video. I think we'll probably only allow one entry per person, so you can definitely upload a replacement and I'll give the proper people a heads up.
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Congrats on the win, I definitely got a little excited when Daniel announced that the winner was Jared....
Until he announced the last initial |O.
But again, congrats on the win, and to anyone else who has won! :-+
Thanks, broz (or should I say, Jared?) Keep entering. I wouldn't be surprised if a good percentage of their entries have come from EEVblog folks through Dave's video. It would be interesting to see some statistics.
BTW, I've been corresponding with Keysight. I agree with posts that Keysight is being very flexible. Kudos to KS! Since my last post, I had asked if they could include the app bundle if I picked a lesser scope - the total value is still much less than original $16k. I just got the response that they will work in the app bundle should a winner chose a lesser scope.
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BTW, I've been corresponding with Keysight. I agree with posts that Keysight is being very flexible. Kudos to KS! Since my last post, I had asked if they could include the app bundle if I picked a lesser scope - the total value is still much less than original $16k. I just got the response that they will work in the app bundle should a winner chose a lesser scope.
Right on, I'm really glad it's not an all or nothing kind of contest. It definitely seems like they genuinely care, and want to build lifelong clients rather than just treat people like a number or stat.
Keep up the good work Keysight! You're definitely making me want to work there when I graduate next spring :-+
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I really wish I could get through the block against those of us who work for Government agencies.
How about just not telling them - how would they find out?
I guess I'm just old fashioned and don't run that way (i could never be a politician).
With my full name and a quick google search, it'd be apparent anyhow.
Regardless, Daniel deserves our kudos for all he has done. Keysight, too, for being generous and responsive.
--adam
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Hey @Keysight_DanielBogdanoff Things are looking much slicker now, am now even getting the emails with the promotional tidbits.
Most of the links seem to work (Except one of the YouTube "Scope Month Winners" channel, which still goes "not found"). And it has now been made very clear that the more days you enter, the better you chances. And the whole tax / duty thing seems to have come out in the wash.
Only 20 more days or so to go...
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Hey @Keysight_DanielBogdanoff Things are looking much slicker now, am now even getting the emails with the promotional tidbits.
Most of the links seem to work (Except one of the YouTube "Scope Month Winners" channel, which still goes "not found"). And it has now been made very clear that the more days you enter, the better you chances. And the whole tax / duty thing seems to have come out in the wash.
Only 20 more days or so to go...
Thanks! There's a playlist on our YouTube channel with the daily winners: http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
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Hey @Keysight_DanielBogdanoff Things are looking much slicker now, am now even getting the emails with the promotional tidbits.
Most of the links seem to work (Except one of the YouTube "Scope Month Winners" channel, which still goes "not found"). And it has now been made very clear that the more days you enter, the better you chances. And the whole tax / duty thing seems to have come out in the wash.
Only 20 more days or so to go...
Thanks! There's a playlist on our YouTube channel with the daily winners: http://bit.ly/Scope_winners (http://bit.ly/Scope_winners)
But the "view list of winners link there is broken"
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But the "view list of winners link there is broken"
I clicked on the word 'more' to the right of the "view list of winners link" and then the link worked fine when I clicked on it.
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I'm in Taiwan and I get led to a asia user only page. Since I entered all my details in mandarin I wonder how Daniel is going to pronounce the names if anyone from asia wins.
Also the https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=TW&lc=cht&ckey=2677413&nid=-32546.0.00&id=2677413 (https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=TW&lc=cht&ckey=2677413&nid=-32546.0.00&id=2677413) doesn't try to block repeat entries only minutes apart. Makes one wonder if it works at all.
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I'm in Taiwan and I get led to a asia user only page. Since I entered all my details in mandarin I wonder how Daniel is going to pronounce the names if anyone from asia wins.
Also the https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=TW&lc=cht&ckey=2677413&nid=-32546.0.00&id=2677413 (https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=TW&lc=cht&ckey=2677413&nid=-32546.0.00&id=2677413) doesn't try to block repeat entries only minutes apart. Makes one wonder if it works at all.
I have multi-lingual backup in the room with me!
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But the "view list of winners link there is broken"
I see now, I'll get it fixed.
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Hi All
There has been questions what is the situation with EU winners so I needed to register (I promise to stay here!).
So, I am one winner as well and located in the UK. Keysight has been very helpful with the situation and it seems they are really trying to figure out the best way to solve the tax issues. The case is that even though they will be using a local distributor, I may need to pay the VAT. It is still under investigation. I can believe it is not simple as regulations differ between countries. As far as I know you do not need to pay taxes on prizes in the UK in general, so I hope that would be the result of this.
I don't know yet what to do if the VAT is on me. It clearly depends on what kind of value they will use for the scope. Nevertheless, I am afraid I cannot afford the 1 GHz model even if cost price was used.
I am very happy with my prize but yes, it seems it will not be free. And unfortunately us hobbyists reflect the price to other products that would be adequate for us, such as Rigol. For this price I could get all the equipment I need for my DIY audio projects, and I could maybe even pay £3000 taxes for the whole bench but unfortunately it is too much for an oscilloscope.
But I cannot complain about getting an excellent oscilloscope, even if it will be 100 MHz instead of 1 GHz!
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Hi nihtila,
If you can't get the VAT issue sorted out I am sure there will be people here willing to get you a reasonable Rigol scope and pay the VAT.
I would like to be first on your list for consideration.
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Hi All
There has been questions what is the situation with EU winners so I needed to register (I promise to stay here!).
So, I am one winner as well and located in the UK. Keysight has been very helpful with the situation and it seems they are really trying to figure out the best way to solve the tax issues. The case is that even though they will be using a local distributor, I may need to pay the VAT. It is still under investigation. I can believe it is not simple as regulations differ between countries. As far as I know you do not need to pay taxes on prizes in the UK in general, so I hope that would be the result of this.
I don't know yet what to do if the VAT is on me. It clearly depends on what kind of value they will use for the scope. Nevertheless, I am afraid I cannot afford the 1 GHz model even if cost price was used.
I am very happy with my prize but yes, it seems it will not be free. And unfortunately us hobbyists reflect the price to other products that would be adequate for us, such as Rigol. For this price I could get all the equipment I need for my DIY audio projects, and I could maybe even pay £3000 taxes for the whole bench but unfortunately it is too much for an oscilloscope.
But I cannot complain about getting an excellent oscilloscope, even if it will be 100 MHz instead of 1 GHz!
You don't have to pay tax on prizes! If Keysight imported the scope into the UK they would have to pay VAT on whatever arbitrary value they set on the scope internally (within limits of what the VATman believes) and you would have nil to pay. But if Keysight supplies the scope in California to a distributor then the distributor has to pay VAT when he imports it and will want someone to pay him back. If it isn't Keysight it will have to be you! There is no VAT on the transaction where he gives you the scope free, it is on import that the tax (and possibly duty) will be paid.
Edit: This is totally different from the situation in the USA where the winner has to pay his own tax on the value of the prize. The tax in the UK arises simply from importing the scope If Keysight paid the import taxes along with the shipping then you would have nothing to pay.
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I'm not expert on tax and I'm not sure I've got the right document but from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries)
•prizes of goods in free lotteries and in sports competitions should be treated as business gifts and VAT is only due if the tax exclusive cost of the prize is over £50. Input tax will then be deductible in the normal manner.
So if supplied from Keysight UK they will have to account for the VAT on the prize. I guess it is up to them if they will pay the VAT out of their own pocket.
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I'm not expert on tax and I'm not sure I've got the right document but from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries/vat-notice-70129-betting-gaming-and-lotteries)
•prizes of goods in free lotteries and in sports competitions should be treated as business gifts and VAT is only due if the tax exclusive cost of the prize is over £50. Input tax will then be deductible in the normal manner.
So if supplied from Keysight UK they will have to account for the VAT on the prize. I guess it is up to them if they will pay the VAT out of their own pocket.
That's true. But if they have just paid VAT to import it then surely they can offset the input tax they have paid against the VAT on supply to the prize winner. So they only have to pay the VAT once. Assuming that they did not attempt to import it at less than it's fair value, which will be the value it retains when they give it as a prize. Edit: if they didn't have to account for VAT on business gifts it would mean they could still reclaim the input VAT, and the VATman would be subsidising their business gifts!
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Yes, you are right, the VAT is not for the prize as in the US - as it would be my income. But yes, they probably have or will have to pay VAT when they import/have imported the scopes into the UK, and I guess now it is the case that do I need to pay that or not. I can only wait for their response if I need to pay it, and for what value it would be.
If the VATman comes behind my door, I probably need to look at the models in 200-300 MHz range as the price drops significantly. I don't think they can set the value to be something ridiculously small. But what is the value then? For example the selling prices for companies are quite different from list prices. We have those 500M models at work so I know what is a proper price for that (=still too much if I need to pay 20%).
Of course paying the VAT, selling the scope, and buying a lower bandwidth model (plus even an audio analyzer I could use) could be an option, but not only it can be difficult to sell for "a good price", it kinda feels wrong...
First world problems :P
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I finally sent an email to Keysight declining the prize. Even the cheapest scope they offer would require me to pay over $1000 USD in taxes. Not something I can stomach for a hobby. That means you people who are still trying to win have a better chance now.
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Yes, you are right, the VAT is not for the prize as in the US - as it would be my income. But yes, they probably have or will have to pay VAT when they import/have imported the scopes into the UK, and I guess now it is the case that do I need to pay that or not. I can only wait for their response if I need to pay it, and for what value it would be.
If the VATman comes behind my door, I probably need to look at the models in 200-300 MHz range as the price drops significantly. I don't think they can set the value to be something ridiculously small. But what is the value then? For example the selling prices for companies are quite different from list prices. We have those 500M models at work so I know what is a proper price for that (=still too much if I need to pay 20%).
Of course paying the VAT, selling the scope, and buying a lower bandwidth model (plus even an audio analyzer I could use) could be an option, but not only it can be difficult to sell for "a good price", it kinda feels wrong...
First world problems :P
Private individual cannot be charged with VAT. It is just illegal for the company to give it away to individual and leave the VAT on him.
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I finally sent an email to Keysight declining the prize. Even the cheapest scope they offer would require me to pay over $1000 USD in taxes. Not something I can stomach for a hobby. That means you people who are still trying to win have a better chance now.
Hats off.....sorry you could not benefit. I appreciate the additional chance being put back into the contest. Like I said earlier - winning one of these will be a significant boost for my small biz that really needs a boost from anywhere I can get it. :clap:
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I still don't understand it...
Keysight has an official sales office in Germany, somewhere near Stuttgart. They have official Distributors in Germany, for example DataTec. So why on earth should a German winner have to pay a single cent to receive his prize? Winning a prize in a lottery is tax free here. There are no customs duties to be paid if the prize is delivered from a German distributor to a German citizen. And there is no VAT to be paid. All prices on goods, targeted at private individuals, have to be given including the VAT. The winners scope is free, it has no price. So 19% VAT from zero (the price the winner has to pay for the scope) ist zero, niente, null. Keysight simply can't charge VAT from the winner (private individual) for a free scope. At least that's my understanding :-//
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I finally sent an email to Keysight declining the prize.
Sorry to hear it couldn't work out. Hopefully, you got some pleasure from having won, even if for only a little while.
That means you people who are still trying to win have a better chance now.
Hmm, does that mean Keysight will extend the event beyond the end of the month? Maybe they'll give away the declined ones on the last day.
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Hmm, does that mean Keysight will extend the event beyond the end of the month? Maybe they'll give away the declined ones on the last day.
On one of the earlier drawings - they drew an extra to account for a declined prize.
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I see. So they do extra draws as the need arises. Cool.
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I still don't understand it...
Keysight has an official sales office in Germany, somewhere near Stuttgart. They have official Distributors in Germany, for example DataTec. So why on earth should a German winner have to pay a single cent to receive his prize? Winning a prize in a lottery is tax free here. There are no customs duties to be paid if the prize is delivered from a German distributor to a German citizen. And there is no VAT to be paid. All prices on goods, targeted at private individuals, have to be given including the VAT. The winners scope is free, it has no price. So 19% VAT from zero (the price the winner has to pay for the scope) ist zero, niente, null. Keysight simply can't charge VAT from the winner (private individual) for a free scope. At least that's my understanding :-//
You are right. If Keysight give you a scope that is already legally in the EU, you owe the taxman, at least in the UK, nothing. It is Keysight or perhaps their distributor who has to account for VAT. Keysight may be much more used to dealing with an EU business than a consumer, as the latter would probably buy from a distributor. If you are a business, you would know what to do with an invoice marked with zero charge for a business gift plus a VAT charge at fair value[1], although such a taxed gift would be a remarkably odd.
If you are consumer, such an invoice would be a mystery. And in many EU countries it would be unlawful to give a consumer such a VAT invoice. Consumers are supposed to be charged the whole price, including VAT. So if Keysight thought it was fair to give a gift but also charge the recipient the VAT they would really have to offer the scope at about a sixth of its price rather than as a gift, and take the VAT out of that.[2]
[1] Keysight do not have to pay VAT on the full list price if they don't want to. The usual selling price would be a better estimate of true value, and result in somewhat less VAT!
[2] The alternative is to 'give' the scope to the recipient at the US factory gate and leave the recipient to pay the import charges. But then they wouldn't be able to involve a distributor.
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I have to ask..
Do you have a need for an oscilloscope?
Yes, within 3 months.
Yes, within 12 months.
No, not within the next year.
How does this work? :-//
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Meaningless forecasting data so marketing can make charts at the monthly meetings.
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An attempt to determine what type of audience they are reaching with the Scope Month contest?
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Or maybe their sales will contact you if you put that you need a scope.
Interesting to read these tax discussions, but eventually I can only wait Keysight's response. I didn't hear anything new today. Yesterday they said they will contact me again in few days.
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I have to ask..
Do you have a need for an oscilloscope?
Yes, within 3 months.
Yes, within 12 months.
No, not within the next year.
How does this work? :-//
If you're in the market for a scope, we'll contact you about it (probably an e-mail?). It has no bearing whatsoever on your chances of winning.
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... which is what I would expect.
Since Keysight have already got your interest and you've supplied them with an email address (to notify you if you've won) it's a VERY easy step to ask you to click on a button, so they have an idea on whether (and when) it might be worth contacting you again, so that they can present their products for your consideration.
Marketing requires a few things to work: Knowledge of the products (Keysight make scopes), interest in the products (Keysight make good scopes), desire for the product (I need/want a new scope) and to be there when a purchase decision is being made.
The giveaway attracts the right sort of audience for these reasons - which is why it's done. They don't need to cull participants. In fact, the more participants, the more likely a cash-wielding purchaser will not end up with a free one.
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I wonder what is the ratio of hobbyists to professionals among the participants. Hobbyists are not particularly Keysight's target audience. And I don't think employees of bigger companies bother attending on behalf of their companies but small businesses probably do. And then again, many of us more serious hobbyists are also professionals even if we attend the sweepstake as individuals. And all this is good marketing for a good target audience. I still have to say that the amount of prizes is impressive.
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The relatively young name Keysight now has a much better imprinting in the market. Worldwide marketing in the form of advertisements, etc. quickly costs an comparable amount of money. I thank Keysight to give a fraction of the advertising budget to customers. :-+
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This would have to be at the top of the list of reasons...
The relatively young name Keysight now has a much better imprinting in the market.
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I wonder what is the ratio of hobbyists to professionals among the participants. Hobbyists are not particularly Keysight's target audience.
Well, they actively advertise it here on Dave's eevblog forum and encourage members to participate on their lottery (that's how I found out about it, I wouldn't have known otherwise...). So they sure do know that a lot of hobbyists and young students will sign up because they are a huge part of Dave's audience. A poor student may not be Keysights prime target today but may be in the future... :-+
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I wonder what is the ratio of hobbyists to professionals among the participants. Hobbyists are not particularly Keysight's target audience.
Well, they actively advertise it here on Dave's eevblog forum and encourage members to participate on their lottery (that's how I found out about it, I wouldn't have known otherwise...). So they sure do know that a lot of hobbyists and young students will sign up because they are a huge part of Dave's audience. A poor student may not be Keysights prime target today but may be in the future... :-+
Yes, sure students are always a good target audience.
Btw, the newest info is that there would not be taxes to be paid in the UK.
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Btw, the newest info is that there would not be taxes to be paid in the UK.
That's great news! Enjoy your prize.
The only downside is that there is now nothing to console myself with when I don't win.
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Btw, the newest info is that there would not be taxes to be paid in the UK.
That's great news! Enjoy your prize.
The only downside is that there is now nothing to console myself with when I don't win.
Great news for UK winners! I wonder if whatever wangle Keysight used can be used for when I win Dave's "used" dumpster find?
(Who am I kidding? I never win anything. I even had to stop betting on the Grand National when every time I picked a horse it would fall at Bechers and have to be shot :( )
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Btw, the newest info is that there would not be taxes to be paid in the UK.
Hmmm... Are you really sure? Here's another winner of a MSOX3104T, i'm from Germany and they wrote me today that they will send the scope from Malaysia and I would have to pay the German VAT (19%) for it.
I'm not really sure what the declared value is, somewhere in the range of $15.000? That would set me back ~2.8K€ for this scope. Im still uncertain what to do now, have to think about it.
So the real question is, what's the difference between the UK and Germany? Last time I checked they were still both members of the EU...
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So the real question is, what's the difference between the UK and Germany? Last time I checked they were still both members of the EU...
By all accounts the German customs are all spawned from a dastardly genetic experiment by Dr Mengele to create a master race of Schutzstaffel tax inspectors. :-DD
Even Dave has had to rule out Germany from his sales and competition.
But yes, whatever method works for the UK should be okay for you too I would think?
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Btw, the newest info is that there would not be taxes to be paid in the UK.
Hmmm... Are you really sure? Here's another winner of a MSOX3104T, i'm from Germany and they wrote me today that they will send the scope from Malaysia and I would have to pay the German VAT (19%) for it.
I'm not really sure what the declared value is, somewhere in the range of $15.000? That would set me back ~2.8K€ for this scope. Im still uncertain what to do now, have to think about it.
So the real question is, what's the difference between the UK and Germany? Last time I checked they were still both members of the EU...
Well, the answer is changing so no, I am not sure.
Did they offer you the possibility to take a cheaper model? The price jumps significantly after 200MHz. And yes, another question is what value they would use. Actual selling price is probably 20-25% lower than the list price so it kinda sucks if you need to pay taxes for the list price.
And maybe that was one of the key points of Mr Camerons summit in Brussels - do not tax Keysight giveaways!
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Did they offer you the possibility to take a cheaper model? The price jumps significantly after 200MHz. And yes, another question is what value they would use. Actual selling price is probably 20-25% lower than the list price so it kinda sucks if you need to pay taxes for the list price.
Yes, they give me the opportunity to choose a lesser scope from their 3000 X series line. A DSOX3024T (4 channel, 200MHz) would be perfectly fine for me as well but though it is less than 30% the list price of the original win I think they would be charging VAT on it as well, regardeless.
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Did they offer you the possibility to take a cheaper model? The price jumps significantly after 200MHz. And yes, another question is what value they would use. Actual selling price is probably 20-25% lower than the list price so it kinda sucks if you need to pay taxes for the list price.
Yes, they give me the opportunity to choose a lesser scope from their 3000 X series line. A DSOX3024T (4 channel, 200MHz) would be perfectly fine for me as well but though it is less than 30% the list price of the original win I think they would be charging VAT on it as well, regardeless.
I'd like to give Keysight some free advice, which I think is fairly disinterested because I am pretty unlikely to win! In Europe at least,[1] where the culture is that you don't pay taxes on gifts, and that VAT is a matter for the seller not the buyer in consumer transactions, they would do well to stump up the moderate five figure sum required to pay all taxes and import duties on their prizes themselves. And announce that they are doing so as soon as possible.
Otherwise they risk their generous promotion being chiefly remembered for the trouble and disappointment it caused the winners, which can't be a good thing for them!
[1] I can't speak for other jurisdictions. Maybe even in the US they could hand out a bit of cash with the prize to cushion the taxes, even though that sum itself would presumably be taxed. Presumably even in the US they are absorbing import duties paid internally on their stock. But maybe expectations are simply different there and the same deep disappointment will not be felt with the present arrangements. I know what us Europeans think, though!
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If I were Keysight, I would not want to deal with someone that complains about a 80%+ discount on a piece of test gear. This contest can weed out the expensive 'customers'
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Not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread already but this is the way I understand it. (ignoring the US)
If Keysight were to import the scope to a local distributor, then they would only pay sales tax on the wholesale price of the scope.
The distributor collects tax on the subsequent retail price and then pays the difference to the taxman.
For a prize, there is no retail price, and so there is no sales tax to collect on the retail sale. Therefore the distributor has to pay tax on the wholesale price.
If they instead send it direct to a customer (i.e. from Malaysia) then the customer pays sales tax on the fair market value as it crosses the border.
For a prize there is no discount as the tax is based on the fair market value of the device and that hasn't changed.
The key point being that less sales tax would be paid if the scope came from a local distributor. The problem is that the local distributor would pay that lower amount of tax, not Keysight.
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They have their own offices in several European countries. No need to involve distributors. Once in any EU country it does not matter which country it is then sent on to. Even tbe German Customs Gestato will not look for money or shred it for not having a CE mark in the correct font.
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According to Keysight, they will send the scope from Malaysia to your local Distributor. The Distributor then sends it to you. And you will be charged with the VAT.
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They have their own offices in several European countries. No need to involve distributors. Once in any EU country it does not matter which country it is then sent on to. Even tbe German Customs Gestato will not look for money or shred it for not having a CE mark in the correct font.
Indeed - in which case the sales tax payable by Keysight should be even lower, as it would be based on cost of goods, not wholesale would it not?
According to Keysight, they will send the scope from Malaysia to your local Distributor. The Distributor then sends it to you. And you will be charged with the VAT.
The key question being VAT on which value? RRP, VAT on fair market value, VAT on cost, VAT on wholesale?
Based on what has been written (which may well be wrong), Keysight or the distributor is not paying VAT on MSRP. So if you are reimbursing Keysight then they are making a profit on the tax.
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The key question being VAT on which value? RRP, VAT on fair market value, VAT on cost, VAT on wholesale?
Yes indeed, this is the question. I asked them to give me an approximate figure on how much I would have to pay if I accept the prize. This is something one would expect to be not to difficult to be answered by an international operating corporation, used to do worldwide business. Got no response on that.
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The key question being VAT on which value? RRP, VAT on fair market value, VAT on cost, VAT on wholesale?
Yes indeed, this is the question. I asked them to give me an approximate figure on how much I would have to pay if I accept the prize. This is something one would expect to be not to difficult to be answered by an international operating corporation, used to do worldwide business. Got no response on that.
As I understand the rules, at least as implemented in the UK, the distributor then has to pay to the government tax people the VAT on the retail market value of the scope when he hands it over to you. But he can recover the VAT he paid when he imported it (but not any customs duty applicable) as an input tax. So what he has to get back from you (or possibly Keysight) is the VAT on the retail market value of the scope at the time he hands it over, plus the duty. He can't really charge you VAT as such, let alone duty, if you haven't bought it at that stage because it is a gift. But he can agree to hand the scope over in return for a sum high enough to pay the VAT and duty, which comes to the same thing as far as you are concerned. But in legal and contract terms you are buying the scope for a cheap price, not being given it.
It would be different if you imported it yourself, you'd be responsible for import taxes.
Edit: an important point is that if Keysight or their distributor give you something they have imported into the EU (or built in the EU for that matter) you are not responsible for any tax. Neither VAT nor income tax. They are responsible for paying VAT, but can of course ask you to pay a similar sum of money to them if they care to make it a condition of receiving the scope.
Unlike the situation in America, you owe nothing unless you agree to pay it to Keysight or their distributor in return for the scope.
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The key question being VAT on which value? RRP, VAT on fair market value, VAT on cost, VAT on wholesale?
Yes indeed, this is the question. I asked them to give me an approximate figure on how much I would have to pay if I accept the prize. This is something one would expect to be not to difficult to be answered by an international operating corporation, used to do worldwide business. Got no response on that.
As I understand the rules, at least as implemented in the UK, the distributor then has to pay to the government tax people the VAT on the retail market value of the scope when he hands it over to you.
That doesn't make sense. The distibutor would pay tax on the amount they paid for the scope. Not the amount they will later sell the scope for.
Think about it - if you import some cheap thing from ebay that you later sell for a profit you don't pay import tax on the sell price.
... He can't really charge you VAT as such, let alone duty, if you haven't bought it at that stage because it is a gift. But he can agree to hand the scope over in return for a sum high enough to pay the VAT and duty, which comes to the same thing as far as you are concerned. But in legal and contract terms you are buying the scope for a cheap price, not being given it.
Yep that makes sense - its not tax as such, but instead it is reimbursing them for the cost they have incurred. The point is: how much cost is incurred?
It would be different if you imported it yourself, you'd be responsible for import taxes.
Yes, but the point is that the distributor gets a discount from trade price, correct? So the _amount_ of tax is different to if you import it yourself.
Assuming they are making a profit of course. Import tax is based on the price paid for the goods _by the importer_. When the importer is also Keysight that amount becomes even more arbitrary as Keysight declare the value to themselves. Some else mentioned this earlier in the thread.
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As far as I am concerned it should be quite simple. If Keysight ship their goods to their UK subsidiary then there should be no VAT at all, perhaps there could be VAT if sent to a 3rd party distributor, but even if there was VAT then it would be 100% reclaimable. But the VAT is purely on the sale price of whatever the goods are.
Businesses are free to sell goods at a loss or a profit. This should be of no concern to the tax man. Who the fuck does Hector think he is, embedding himself in the strategic business decisions of a company? Deciding what a retail price should be? WTF? How subjective is that?
It all comes down to the actual money trail - ultimately Keysight (USA) are making a loss of the actual manufacturing and shipping cost. That will mean less profit in their books. No taxman in the world can tax losses surely?
When the send it out with an invoice as is required by law - if the invoice has a false price on it (like MSRRP) but with no payment then they are artificially inflating profits - illegal. The have to ship it with a $0 invoice.
Besides, it doesn't matter what all the VAT rates are between any business to business transactions as they are all reclaimable by the business involved. It's only the final customer who has to pay VAT - and it's clearly what is stated on their invoice - and in the UK is 20% of the goods+shipping net total. That is, what the customer HAS TO PAY total.
An invoice for FREE SCOPE £0.00 can't have any VAT.
I think the Americans have totally confused the issue as there is a personal income tax issue over there which is unheard of in Europe and they just assume its an income tax issue.
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Someone quoted a URL to the UK VAT rules on business gifts in this thread. I assume they are from an EU directive, but I could be wrong. They clearly say that a firm who gives a business gift or promotional gift has to account for VAT on its market value. Unless it is worth less than £50. If they have to pay VAT to buy/import the goods then this latter payment is what they can reclaim, but they have to pay the VAT on the gift. I didn't know that until I read this thread.
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Someone quoted a URL to the UK VAT rules on business gifts in this thread. I assume they are from an EU directive, but I could be wrong. They clearly say that a firm who gives a business gift or promotional gift has to account for VAT on its market value. Unless it is worth less than £50. If they have to pay VAT to buy/import the goods then this latter payment is what they can reclaim, but they have to pay the VAT on the gift. I didn't know that until I read this thread.
Ah I see - yes I just found that on google (easier than reading the thread looking for it). https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts (https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts)
That means the distributor or Keysight does need to charge the winner VAT on the "Full Value". Which the winner could claim back if they were registered for VAT which has already been discussed.
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Sorry, there are many wild guesses about the VAT-system or the conditions for a scopemonth-winner in Germany.
Is there really no one else then me, who had learned it at school?
BTW: I had to deal with customs for years on a daily base.
To the winner in Germany:
You will have to sign a form from Keysight. Reason of this form:
- Assuring that you are a winner in legal kind. (minimum 18 years old, resident in a eligible country and so on).
- Permission for the public use of your name.
- Notes about the responsibility for taxes and duties. Remenber: This form has to fit for all countries!
Therefor there is written: "[...] responsive for local taxes and duties, if any. [...]".
The magic words: "local" and "if any".
- Further: You have to fill a form (W8BEN or so) for the US department of treasury.
Important: They have to know, that you are not a citizen of the US.
All this is needed from KS because legal and taxation laws.
What´s then going on?
- Keysight sends a new unit from malaysia to your chosen distributor. (It must not be KS Germany. It doesn´t really matter which distributor is used.)
- The distributor pays the VAT at the time of the import, BUT he gets the payed VAT back. Official text:
"However, as far as imports are concerned, VAT must be paid at the moment the goods are imported so they are immediately placed on the same footing as equivalent goods produced in the Community. Taxable people registered for VAT will be allowed to deduct this VAT in their next VAT return."
- There are no duties on oscilloscopes, only one exception: CRT-scopes.
- Further possible taxes (depending of the country): lottery tax, income tax. Both is not the case in Germany.
Also: You get your scope for zero/ null/ nothing/ niente! No US-taxes, no malaysian taxes, no german taxes or duties.
What you want more???
You have only to fill the forms and to wait some days. (They build their scopes in malaysia and need some time for the shipping, you know?)
That´s a quite paradox situation: A winner in the US, winning a scope from an US-company, has worse conditions as a winner in the EU. He has to pay income tax.
A complete different case is the winning of Dave´s dumpster found scopes.
If you are a private person, then there is VAT to pay at the import. Depending of the declared value. Usually together with the handling fees from e.g. FED EX.
Example: Dave declares the value of the "used" scope as 1000 US$. And pays 100 US$ for shipping.
He doesn´t send it to a distributor, he send it direct to you. So, you are the importer.
You have to pay the VAT (e.g. 19%) for the value and the shipping.
In this case: (1000 + 100) * 19% = 209 US$ [the equivalent Euros, of course]
Fed Ex sues you with their fees, too: Additional 25 €. That´s it. Done.
Lowering the declared value lowers the taxes, but the value must be reasonable.
Otherwise will the value estimated from the costums...
And: The declared value ist important for the insurance.
Assuming the worst case: The scope will be lost on the way. Sad... But:
The money from the insurance (+ the money, dedicated for the VAT) allows you to buy a scope, allways.
But, that is not relevant for Germany anymore since Dave made his decision to rule Germany out.
(Probably based on the weird behavior of our new german hero: Sebastian W.)
I´m firmly confident: It´s quite fair to penalize a whole country for one guy, for sure...
Lesson learned: In an international forum are some countries more international than others.
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Still charging/passing on to a competition winner the VAT on a prize is an alien concept in the EC. The VAT man may not like it, and the distributor would certainly not want to trigger a VAT audit. Even if they have nothing to hide the costs of an audit can be large in both time and accountant's profession fees etc.
It would make more sense for the distributor to deduct the VAT from their own VAT payments, as normal.
BTW by same simplified rules above, selling the scope to the winner for a nominal fee would be cheaper.
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@ProBang2: I don't know, they made it quite clear to me that I would have to pay the VAT on the scope. But they were unable or unwilling to tell me an approximate figure on how much that would be.
1.) Declared value of the scope: Unknown
2.) Shipping costs: Unknown
3.) Customs tariff: Probably none on digital scopes, 4.2% on old style CROs
4.) Income tax: None
5.) Einfuhrumsatzsteuer (~VAT): most likely 19% on the sum of (1 + 2 + 3)
6.) gambling tax: none
7.) other taxes: none
If you were to import the scope on your own, you would have to pay 5.) 19% "Einfuhrumsatzsteuer" (~VAT) on the sum of the declared value of the scope, the customs tariff and the shipping costs. This also seems to be the case for the Distributor when he imports the scope from Malaysia. He then sends the scope to you and you will be charged with whatever his expenses were to import the scope. At least that's how I understand it.
But since the declared value of the scope is totally unclear, as are the shipping costs, it's impossible to tell what your real expenses are when the scope is finally delivered.
I'm off to work now, a nice day to all of you...
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But, that is not relevant for Germany anymore since Dave made his decision to rule Germany out.
(Probably based on the weird behavior of our new german hero: Sebastian W.)
I´m firmly confident: It´s quite fair to penalize a whole country for one guy, for sure...
Lesson learned: In an international forum are some countries more international than others.
No. Dave has had trouble with Germany's overzealous customs many times previously, like when selling his uCurrents. Nothing to do with Sebastian W.
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But, that is not relevant for Germany anymore since Dave made his decision to rule Germany out.
(Probably based on the weird behavior of our new german hero: Sebastian W.)
I´m firmly confident: It´s quite fair to penalize a whole country for one guy, for sure...
Lesson learned: In an international forum are some countries more international than others.
No. Dave has had trouble with Germany's overzealous customs many times previously, like when selling his uCurrents. Nothing to do with Sebastian W.
Yes. This is an issue Dave has declared before. It has nothing to do with that particular member's antics.
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@ raupi
The one and only question of interest was already answered:
Dear Mr. Bogdanoff,
I have a question. Just to make it clear.
E.g. If the winner is located in Germany:
- The scope will be shipped from your nearest sales Office?
(in this case: Keysight Technologies Deutschland GmbH, Boeblingen) :-+
or
- The scope will only be shipped from Keysight, Santa Rosa? :--
I firmly believe that your answer is interesting for all countries with your sales offices.
It would be great to get an answer to this one, or was it already answered?
Sorry, missed this one. In general, the scope will come from a local distributor. There are a couple exceptions, but this is the general case. You'll be contacted via e-mail if you are a winner. Well, you're all winners (or something), but you'll be contacted if you win a scope.
Magic words: "will come from a local distributor"
Excuse the change of the quoting mode:
@ProBang2: I don't know, they made it quite clear to me that I would have to pay the VAT on the scope.
Interesting. How?
But they were unable or unwilling to tell me an approximate figure on how much that would be.
Do you really expect from a company the giving of any information about their price-calculation (Production costs)?
1.) Declared value of the scope: Unknown
Simply not of interest for you
2.) Shipping costs: Unknown
Same as 1.)
3.) Customs tariff: Probably none on digital scopes, 4.2% on old style CROs
Nope. Not probably. Fact. See yourself under the "Zolltarifnummer" 9030 20 91 90.
(It´s a link, down on this page: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=de&SimDate=20160318&Area=MY&Taric=90302091&LangDescr=de (http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=de&SimDate=20160318&Area=MY&Taric=90302091&LangDescr=de)
4.) Income tax: None
Correct.
5.) Einfuhrumsatzsteuer (~VAT): most likely 19% on the sum of (1 + 2 + 3)
That´s not your business. It belongs to the distributor. And even the distributor gets the payed VAT back. From the "Finanzamt" hence "Vorsteuerabzug".
6.) gambling tax: none
Correct.
7.) other taxes: none
Correct.
If you were to import the scope on your own, you would have to pay 5.) 19% "Einfuhrumsatzsteuer" (~VAT) on the sum of the declared value of the scope, the customs tariff and the shipping costs. This also seems to be the case for the Distributor when he imports the scope from Malaysia. He then sends the scope to you and you will be charged with whatever his expenses were to import the scope. At least that's how I understand it.
He can charge you with nothing. Otherwise he would get the payback from the "Finanzamt" and your charged VAT. That would immediatly penalized as scam. The distributor would have really big fun with the taxation authority...
But since the declared value of the scope is totally unclear, as are the shipping costs, it's impossible to tell what your real expenses are when the scope is finally delivered.
Again... - Null, zero, nada, nothing. But... - wait! There are possible shipping costs! From the distributor to you!
Usually 5,95 or 6,95 €!
Seriously: Do you ever seen a receipt with the value 0,00 €, but 6,95 € for shipping?
I'm off to work now, a nice day to all of you...
Have a nice day, too. And don´t panic about nothing.
But wait... I´m so dumb |O |O |O :palm: :palm: :palm:
Thought twice about this case. My best advice is: Decline the scope!
The VAT and other expenses will destroy your live! With guarantee!
So, give the scope back. Then another one has to face the winning.
(One more scope to win! Yeah!)
This should be a warning to everyone! Don´t win a scope!
(Less subscribers. Better chances for me...)
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
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No matter how many links or school examples you give, but if Keysight says we need to pay taxes, there are two choices: take the scope and pay the taxes or decline it.
Of course we all hope that their decision will be the correct one.
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Someone has to pay for the VAT party. Keysight obviously hasn't the slightest interest to cover it for you, the distributor, out of his own pocket, won't do it either, so, as the German saying goes: "Den letzten beissen die Hunde" (the last one is bitten by the dogs), it's up to the lucky winners to reach for the (hopefully well equipped) wallet :popcorn:
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Of course what to do about VAT is Keysight's choice. But they might choose to be sensitive to local values. We all know that if an EU company said it was giving away a nice £10,000 prize to a lucky consumer, said company would be reviled in every corner of the media if it then tried to get the winner to pay the VAT! (And, certainly in the UK, they would have to account for VAT at value of a promotional gift. VAT is so universal that they wouldn't even think about it, their finance department would just tick the right boxes and the managers concerned would see it on the relevant budget lines only if they looked for it.)
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Someone has to pay for the VAT party. Keysight obviously hasn't the slightest interest to cover it for you, the distributor, out of his own pocket, won't do it either, so, as the German saying goes: "Den letzten beissen die Hunde" (the last one is bitten by the dogs), it's up to the lucky winners to reach for the (hopefully well equipped) wallet :popcorn:
In the UK VAT is ultimately only paid by the final consumer to the supplier, as invoiced, not to HMRC. Businesses do not pay VAT as such, they merely pass it around between each other on all the intermediate transactions. I have never seen an individual with a purely VAT bill. It's always the 20% added tax to the actual purchase cost of rated goods to that individual.
Keysight cannot abrogate paying the VAT to HMRC to the individual as it is the responsibility of the VAT registered business to do this. It has been established that Keysight will ship the goods to their EU distributors from their Malaysia factory, no doubt on the usual frequent cargo shipments involved and therefore at the usual negotiated or zero rated import rates they have already established.
The "Gift" tax which is 100% of the retail seems a bit of a red herring. This is not a gift but a prize/promotion. I would imagine a gift is something personal and occasional in nature, ie. The benefactor knows the individual personally and also it's for an occasion like birthday, christmas, valentines, etc. Gifts generally do not get given with invoices (that would be so rude! ahem).
There are so many ways of giving the goods away, including using a "Discount" - there is nothing that says a 100% discount can't apply, besides which the scope could be sold for £1. It just has to be on stated on the invoice (that thing that would be really tacky to give with a "Gift"). The VAT rules state that the discount is 100% recoverable to the business.
Also, "Samples" - I think a quantity of 1 is a good example of a "Sample". I imagine all of Daves freebies are sent to him as samples for example :)
Ultimately if it comes from one of Keysights EU distributors I can't see any reason why the individual would have to pay full VAT on a theoritical MSRP that hasn't been charged or accounted for. Worst case scenario is an invoice for £1 or 1 EUR.
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Also, "Samples" - I think a quantity of 1 is a good example of a "Sample". I imagine all of Daves freebies are sent to him as samples for example :)
Excellent point, I don't see dave having to go to the post office with a wad of cash to collect test gear etc companies send him for review.
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We all know that if an EU company said it was giving away a nice £10,000 prize to a lucky consumer, said company would be reviled in every corner of the media if it then tried to get the winner to pay the VAT!
For an EU company, such a lottery, targeted at EU citizens, most likely would be unlawful in the first place. But, yeah, they're not in the EU and therefore can get away with it. I've yet to find just one single happy EU winner here on the forums, it's just another case of marketing horribly gone wrong. So the lesson to be learned here is: If you want to promote your product in a foreign market, better check their culture first and adapt according to it, if you don't, you will still get a lot of attention to your company - but of the long lasting, wrong kind... ;D
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All the Keysight office or distributor needs to do if offset the VAT against their VAT payment. On face value that would be standard practice.
The fact that Keysight still cannot confirm this as probably a result of them going to the winner's local distributor and telling them to charge the winner the local taxes. The distributor is then saying WTF, or words to same effect. Maybe not directly back to Keysight the but internally and to their own accountants and auditors.
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All the Keysight office or distributor needs to do if offset the VAT against their VAT payment. On face value that would be standard practice.
The fact that Keysight still cannot confirm this as probably a result of them going to the winner's local distributor and telling them to charge the winner the local taxes. The distributor is then saying WTF, or words to same effect. Maybe not directly back to Keysight the but internally and to their own accountants and auditors.
??? I don't understand. In the end HMRC or whoever the local tax agency is will want their pound of flesh however it is distributed. An intermediary can't simply withold VAT on your return by randomly choosing to offset it on a whim. If you could, I'd be offsetting everything thank you very much.
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While there is somewhat understandable consternation from some quarters on possible local taxation on winning entry, equally it is hardly surprising on a cross-border draw like this. It's unrealistic to consider that it is right that an organiser should pick up -your- tax bill depending on -your- various differing circumstances.
Depending on where you live, and whether you're a private individual, or company for example, some people would be getting a bigger prize than others, now I can just imagine the cries of unfairness then. Being a random draw, how could KS account up front for that in their budgeting? You can't have a blank line in your budgeting "TBA", last time I checked accountants don't work like that.
While it might not be common practice for you to pick up the local tax bill for conventional locally run prize draws in your neck of the woods, you can be sure that any taxes due will have been paid by the prize doner instead, and that is easy to make work in a local jurisdiction as you know ahead of time what the liability is and can account for it. Doing the same on a global scale just isn't possible because you have a huge unknown liability on your accounts.
For fear of repetition, it's clear in the T's and C's, so if you don't want to be liable for the local taxes levied by the government that the people of your country elected, then just don't enter the competition.
On the subject of the devices that EEVblog reviews, in the UK, and I presume other jurisdictions like Australia there are specific tax exemptions around limited quantities of marketing samples used for testing. https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts (https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts)
In short, although nobody likes a tax bill, it is really rather naive to think that somehow the organiser of an international competition could somehow make some unknown tax liability simply disappear, either by stumping up the cash themselves or by being creative with their own tax affairs.
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Maybe they should have restricted the scope giveaway to businesses and exclude private individuals completely. No problems with poor nagging students and hobbyists (who couldn't afford scopes of this caliber anyway) and no problems with VAT taxation, because businesses are used to it and able to pay a few K€ "out of their petty cash" without even thinking to much about it.
Private individuals should be open to "free" hand held DMM giveaways :-DD
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Maybe they should have restricted the scope giveaway to businesses and exclude private individuals completely.
Indeed, and in view of the response that will be exactly what happens. Be careful what you wish for.
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In the end HMRC or whoever the local tax agency is will want their pound of flesh however it is distributed. An intermediary can't simply withold VAT on your return by randomly choosing to offset it on a whim.
This is very true, they may not be able to offset it against VAT received.
Look at it from the distributor's point of view. They are happly selling Keysight kit and all the sudden Keysight contacts them with this request. They know how competitions operate locally, but the idea of having to collect tax on prize is an alien concept to them. It is hassle they can do without.
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The simple solution is back to the posting direct to the winner from Malaysia. But tell the winner the declared value and let them decide if they want the scope, a cheaper scope or to decline the prize.
Half the problem is the uncertainty generated by the apparent inability to inform the winner's of the value.
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Half the problem is the uncertainty generated by the apparent inability to inform the winner's of the value.
+1
Though I would consider this to be responsible for 90% of the anger expressed ;D
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Half the problem is the uncertainty generated by the apparent inability to inform the winner's of the value.
+1
Though I would consider this to be responsible for 90% of the anger expressed ;D
In general (boy I'm tired of having to say that :)), the value of the scope is the list price of the scope in your country. What we can't necessarily say is if you can get away with claiming the "street price" or some lower value.
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I don't know if something has changed. I was told that in previous scope giveaway (when was it?) there was no tax issues so this was a bit surprise. (At least I was told so.)
And yes, it clearly says in the conditions that the winner is responsible for the taxes. Luckily Keysight has been helpful trying to sort this out, at least I feel so. I actually do read those conditions before participating, I always think "I will then see the tax situation if I win" - the fact being that I just have never won before.
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The simple solution is back to the posting direct to the winner from Malaysia. But tell the winner the declared value and let them decide if they want the scope, a cheaper scope or to decline the prize.
Half the problem is the uncertainty generated by the apparent inability to inform the winner's of the value.
The approximate value is known so a potential winner can get pretty close. It does seem strange that an exact figure is hard to come by. Any shipping out out Malaysia has to generate an invoice ahead of time so it cant be all that difficult.
Sent from my horrible mobile....
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In general (boy I'm tired of having to say that :)), the value of the scope is the list price of the scope in your country. What we can't necessarily say is if you can get away with claiming the "street price" or some lower value.
Claiming a lesser than the declared value? Try this on a German customs officer and he will be like -> :-DD
One second thing: If the parcel is imported by a Distributor, which seems to be the case if the reports here are correct, he has already paid the VAT on import. I don't think he would be willing to give you any discount out of his own pocket on the expenses he already had, while handing the scope to you, claimed imaginary street-price or not.
Oh, and please, is someone able to point me to an official Keysight list price chart? I couldn't find any. All their website let me do is request a quote from one of their Distributors, which then seems to be the Distributors lower "house price" but not the presumably higher "list price"? :-//
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Half the problem is the uncertainty generated by the apparent inability to inform the winner's of the value.
+1
Though I would consider this to be responsible for 90% of the anger expressed ;D
Then don't enter the competition. Seriously, how hard can this be?
If you don't like the terms and conditions, you are under no obligation to enter. What part of that is so difficult to understand?
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In general (boy I'm tired of having to say that :)), the value of the scope is the list price of the scope in your country. What we can't necessarily say is if you can get away with claiming the "street price" or some lower value.
Claiming a lesser than the declared value? Try this on a German customs officer and he will be like -> :-DD
One second thing: If the parcel is imported by a Distributor, which seems to be the case if the reports here are correct, he has already paid the VAT on import. I don't think he would be willing to give you any discount out of his own pocket on the expenses he already had, while handing the scope to you, claimed imaginary street-price or not.
Oh, and please, is someone able to point me to an official Keysight list price chart? I couldn't find any. All their website let me do is request a quote from one of their Distributors, which then seems to be the Distributors lower "house price" but not the presumably higher "list price"? :-//
Did you ever try Google? It's not exactly hard for a reasonably astute goat to get a reasonable idea of the value and be able to ascertain a reasonable figure for any tax liabilty.
Why are you getting so uptight about it? In what way has the organiser disadvantaged you by running the competition? Did you lose you first born or something as a result of this?
If you don't like the terms and conditions, you're under no obligation to enter the competition.
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Did you ever try Google? It's not exactly hard for a reasonably astute goat to get a reasonable idea of the value and be able to ascertain a reasonable figure for any tax liabilty.
MSOX3104T price in euros
€9,500 : http://www.otcireland.com/product.php/666/0/msox3104t-oscilloscope--1-ghz--4-plus-16-digital-channels (http://www.otcireland.com/product.php/666/0/msox3104t-oscilloscope--1-ghz--4-plus-16-digital-channels)
They also have an ex demo for €8,500.
€13,741 : http://www.mercateo.com/p/269-MSOX3104T/Keysight_MSOX3104T_Oszilloskop_4_16_Kanal_Touch_Screen_1_GHz_bis_5_GSa_s_1_Mio_wfm_s_4_MPts_segm_Speicher.html?redirectedFrom=msox3104t (http://www.mercateo.com/p/269-MSOX3104T/Keysight_MSOX3104T_Oszilloskop_4_16_Kanal_Touch_Screen_1_GHz_bis_5_GSa_s_1_Mio_wfm_s_4_MPts_segm_Speicher.html?redirectedFrom=msox3104t)
€14,166 : http://www.datatec.de/Keysight-MSOX3104T-Oszilloskop.htm (http://www.datatec.de/Keysight-MSOX3104T-Oszilloskop.htm) and http://www.yeint.fi/index.php?main=64&productCat=874&productID=25743 (http://www.yeint.fi/index.php?main=64&productCat=874&productID=25743)
These are the street prices, I can find any list prices...
Daniel, can you provide a link to your list prices for each country? Thanks.
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Then don't enter the competition. Seriously, how hard can this be?
If you don't like the terms and conditions, you are under no obligation to enter. What part of that is so difficult to understand?
Agreed. Even if the exact numbers are not known - the approximate value is easily known and you can nail down what the tax implications are. If you can't figure that out, you will not be able to figure out the prize either - so why bother?
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There you go, plus any options, of course. Assuming they're being thrown in as they have been recently the tax liability at circa 20% is about €3k.
Or does Germany not use the actual street price when calculating import tax? I can imagine importing just about anything from China will be interesting in that case!
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Maybe they should have restricted the scope giveaway to businesses and exclude private individuals completely. No problems with poor nagging students and hobbyists (who couldn't afford scopes of this caliber anyway) and no problems with VAT taxation, because businesses are used to it and able to pay a few K€ "out of their petty cash" without even thinking to much about it.
No.
People need to take responsibility for their actions. <=== Please read that again.
Read the T&C - understand what they say - check out what you need to ... and then decide if you want to enter.
Keysight have made it fundamentally clear who has responsibility for taxes, etc - and yet are still bending over backwards to try and help keep the winners happy. They can't get involved in the tax intricacies for each individual - or it'll likely cost them more than the prize is worth. Certainly dealing with businesses will be easier since a business won't bleat about the customs and tax environment - they'll just work within it.
BUT I would NOT want such a competition limited in a way that excludes me because somebody else thought individuals would be 'difficult' even though the promoter doesn't.
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There you go, plus any options, of course. Assuming they're being thrown in as they have been recently the tax liability at circa 20% is about €3k.
Or does Germany not use the actual street price when calculating import tax? I can imagine importing just about anything from China will be interesting in that case!
This would only apply when using a personal delivery using customs, where they have to go on declared value. If they don't believe it then they can magic up their own value and will find their own opinion of RRP themselves and apply that. You can then appeal. They will want to see some transactions to support this.
However, that is moot. Keysight have already said the scope will come from a local distributor. This makes total sense - why would they go out of their way sending these by Malaysia Post and sending someone to the post office when they already have a FOB customs brokered setup to all their distributors for mass shipments anyway?
Clearly any distributor does not pay HMRC the full whack of any fanciful MRRP when importing goods. They pay the tax at the ACTUAL COST OF GOODS to them. But this is only a fleeting moment of insanity because they will already have exemptions so as not to piss about with HMRC by paying the VAT and immediately claiming it back and all the nonsense paperwork back and forth involved. Because ultimately it becomes a 0% VAT to the distributor - ALL INPUTS ARE 100% VAT DEDUCTIBLE. Only when the distributor sells to a final customer (and not a business) will the final VAT rate be realised to HMRC and that is the final invoice value.
The distributor cannot invoice MSRP for a free prize. They can invoice MSRP and apply 100% discount. Or if they only want to charge £1, £100, £1000 or whatever they can do that too - and the VAT will be 20% of that price - but of course with no discount the "winner" is then liable for that and has to pay it, and Keysight Distributor has to account for it in the profit & loss. We don't want corporation tax fraud here as well do we?
...and of course it can go as a promotional "sample" which is also 100% VAT free.
I really don't see any issue with this if Keysight is delivering by normal channels that are already set up, and not just getting some random clerk taking them to Malaysia Post office on his lunch break for deliveries to individuals.
...Now Dave's second hand dumpster find - that will have to go through the usual customs if sent ordinary post. IF they decide to snaffle it (like the Germans seem to love) they will take whatever description and face value is on it and charge your courier that, who will then add on their own charges too. If they are total Nazis they will open up the package and inspect and then take 3 months to find the highest possible MRRP to get tax on and present their invoice. You are free to decline and the package will be sent back.
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all of this talk of tax, VAT can be solve by selecting the winner from malaysia (which not listed in the T&C).. No shipping hassle, no custom. :-DD :-DD
perhaps someone like me ;) ;) ;)
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For me I would be quite happy to accept one of these scopes for 20% of its normal price. It was made quite clear in the terms and conditions that taxes would be the responsibility of the recipient. I really don't think it's reasonable for people winning one of these scopes to complain so much, if they have made a mistake just decline the prize.
I would think all this hassle about taxes would make Keysight much less likely to conduct a completion like this in the future.
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For me I would be quite happy to accept one of these scopes for 20% of its normal price. It was made quite clear in the terms and conditions that taxes would be the responsibility of the recipient. I really don't think it's reasonable for people winning one of these scopes to complain so much, if they have made a mistake just decline the prize.
I would think all this hassle about taxes would make Keysight much less likely to conduct a completion like this in the future.
That may be true but the hassle has nothing to do with this discussion or complaints here. It is not even much about winners' complaints, mostly just other people trying to prove how taxes should go. But yes, some people at Keysight have been using time figuring out different tax regulations in various countries and it can affect their will to do it again. But then again, it should not be a surprise for them as a company, and at least next time they know how it goes.
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I would think all this hassle about taxes would make Keysight much less likely to conduct a completion like this in the future.
I'm inclined to disagree.
As I see it, the purpose of conducting such a promotion as this is to get people's attention for a broader business objective. While such objectives can be served by giveaways, they will continue to be run.
If a winner has tax issues, then that is an issue with one individual - the masses that didn't win have still been touched by the magical idea of having one of the products for their very own.
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Further...
In this particular instance, Keysight now have their new brand out in the wild - and it will continue to spread by word-of-mouth.
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Further...
In this particular instance, Keysight now have their new brand out in the wild - and it will continue to spread by word-of-mouth.
It is sometimes said that no publicity is "bad" publicity and in this case I would tend to agree. there are a lot of people who would have previously never dreamed of owning one of these scopes who are now "dreaming" of having one of these scopes.
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That may be true but the hassle has nothing to do with this discussion or complaints here. It is not even much about winners' complaints, mostly just other people trying to prove how taxes should go. But yes, some people at Keysight have been using time figuring out different tax regulations in various countries and it can affect their will to do it again. But then again, it should not be a surprise for them as a company, and at least next time they know how it goes.
You're one of the lucky winners, right? What's your personal decision, will you accept the prize and pay $3K out of your own pocket? Will you decline it? Will you opt for a cheaper scope, if they still offer it? Sorry, just personal curiosity ;)
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@KEYSIGHT: Why not simply save the hassle and customer-frustration and take some marketing budet to ship DDP ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms )
Also this should allow to declare the manufactured price as it's the only real cost that really did happen - most likely that sum including shipping and taxes will still be less than the list-price.
If necessary you could even declare it a special/different product - slap on a sticker "Winner-Edition" and declare a corresponding price - we're not living in communism where prices are dictacted by the government :)
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I would think all this hassle about taxes would make Keysight much less likely to conduct a completion like this in the future.
I'm inclined to disagree....
I sincerely hope you're correct and the tax issues does not stop Keysight running any competitions like this again. Maybe they could list for each country the a rough estimate of tax costs and get the contestant to confirm that they will pay this tax if they win.
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You're one of the lucky winners, right? What's your personal decision, will you accept the prize and pay $3K out of your own pocket? Will you decline it? Will you opt for a cheaper scope, if they still offer it? Sorry, just personal curiosity ;)
Current information is that I do not need to pay anything but I will see as the situation tend to change.
If there was a payment, I would accept the prize but probably needed to go for a lower bandwidth model. I do want to have the 4+16 channels but for example 200MHz costs 3-4 times less than the 1G model and is perfectly adequate for a hobbyist not working on HF stuff.
And regarding choosing the model, as has been said, the winners do not know what would be the price they need to pay the taxes for. Although someone said this is insignificant, in my opinion it is not. For example, the actual price the scopes sell can be even a third lower than the list price. And if we are comparing 10k or 15k, there is a significant difference in taxes, especially when taken from a hobbyists wallet. And I am not complaining about the issue stated in T&C but it is something you do want to know before deciding to accept or decline your prize.
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There is no such thing as bad publicity.
Keysight are getting good value for their money for scopes they sent Dave.
If I won I would accept the prize and see what happens in the end. In reality I could probably reclaim the VAT, if any through work.
If I get stuck for it then I would pay the VAT. What the wife thinks of me spending 3k on a scope is another story. The fact I would be about 20% the RRP would not wash...
But many people would not have the 3k to pay to receive the scope. Even if they plan to sell it.
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@KEYSIGHT: Why not simply save the hassle and customer-frustration and take some marketing budet to ship DDP ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms )
Also this should allow to declare the manufactured price as it's the only real cost that really did happen - most likely that sum including shipping and taxes will still be less than the list-price.
If necessary you could even declare it a special/different product - slap on a sticker "Winner-Edition" and declare a corresponding price - we're not living in communism where prices are dictacted by the government :)
That is how they ship scopes from Malaysia that you have purchased on the Keysight Ebay store. I already addressed this in the other infamous Sebastian W thread.
You make an offer/BIN the item without taxes, and then Keysight tell you how much it is with the tax which and you then pay the total including tax. If you are a VAT registered company you can then offset the tax on your next VAT return, but not otherwise. They base the tax on the ebay price they accepted, not a list price, so what price they would base it on for a prize I don't know.
If you think somehow the tax just disappears you are deluding yourself. If the German government that you elected sees fit to levy taxes based on the worst case, then you need to lobby your government.
There is already direction from HMRC (UK tax man) on this and that is that VAT is payable on non-cash prizes with transferable value, with the taxable value calculated at the non-discounted price.
From day 1, you've had several options.
1 Don't enter the competition
2 You don't win
3 You win then wait until you know the tax liability, if any, and either
- pay it
- decline the prize
- request a lower value item
The vast majority of people will be either 1 or 2. If you are lucky, you will be 3, and no, your life will not be ruined despite the cries that the sky was falling in. You will never be worse off than you were before the competition ended.
You are being naïve if you assume that any tax liability on an international non-cash prize draw levied by the government you elected will be slurped up by someone else. If there is no liability then great, but I would not assume that.
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Current information is that I do not need to pay anything but I will see as the situation tend to change.
This would really be good news but unfortunately, I don't believe it. As KeySight_DanielBogdanoff several times wrote: The winners are responsible for all taxes, which, in your case (UK), seems to be 20% VAT on the list price of the scope in your country (see reply #350 in this thread).
http://www.keysight.aspen-electronics.com/msox3104t (http://www.keysight.aspen-electronics.com/msox3104t)
Regular price of the scope in the UK = £10.352
20% VAT on that = £2.070 (this is your part)
If you opt for an DSOX3024T (200 MHz, 4 channel):
http://www.keysight.aspen-electronics.com/dsox3024t (http://www.keysight.aspen-electronics.com/dsox3024t)
£3.004 -> your part ~£600
They are also currently running a promo, where you get the equivalent MSO for the same price as the DSO, this may or may not be eligible, if you choose the lesser prize, I don't know. May be worth asking them:
http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=DE&lc=ger&ckey=2704029&nid=-32541.1150350&id=2704029 (http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=DE&lc=ger&ckey=2704029&nid=-32541.1150350&id=2704029)
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Current information is that I do not need to pay anything but I will see as the situation tend to change.
This! :-+
Don´t make yourself any sorrows about the propositions of some wild guessers and strongly believers.
KS handle it the same way as they had done it as Agilent: You have to pay nothing.
The same applies for winners in germany.
And in the EU. (At least for the VAT, except other possible, local taxes, if any.)
Congratulations!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Enjoy your winning!
Have fun with your new scope and don´t let the magic smoke out! :-BROKE
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Of course a very easy way to reduce the nominal value is for it to be slightly used, not new. KS just need to open the box...
They could also ship the unit with the lowest option set, and later release the license keys for that unit as a "special free promoiton" or sell at a nominal token price.
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WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".
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WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".
That's really weird, might have been a WeChat error? That is a Keysight employee.
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Daniel - *****off topic****
Is Keysight at APEC?
...
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WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".
That's really weird, might have been a WeChat error? That is a Keysight employee.
No idea, I have no idea what winning a "scope accessory pack" is supposed to mean:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/keysight-scope-giveaway/?action=dlattach;attach=210670;image)
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WTH, I got a email today from keysight_video@eepw.com.cn that looks awfully like a scam, it's got a QR code that just leads to another website (I opened this in a VM to be safe) with the contact detail for some "sandro_ye@keysight.com".
That's really weird, might have been a WeChat error? That is a Keysight employee.
No idea, I have no idea what winning a "scope accessory pack" is supposed to mean:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/keysight-scope-giveaway/?action=dlattach;attach=210670;image)
It's actually possible you won something! China is running Scope Month a little differently, and the employee name and e-mail address is valid.
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and now it looks like i some how managed to miss the competition again
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Daniel - Can you tell us if the prizes come with the full factory warranty?
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Daniel - Can you tell us if the prizes come with the full factory warranty?
I'm 95% sure they do, but can try to verify when I'm back in the office.
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Daniel - Can you tell us if the prizes come with the full factory warranty?
I'm 95% sure they do, but can try to verify when I'm back in the office.
I only ask as I recently tried to get warranty service on a Keysight product that was given away as a promotion at an event and was told it only had a 30 day warranty instead of the usual 3 years. As the product was defective out of the box I was rather shocked. I let them know I was not impressed at all, it took a few extra days but Keysight stepped up and handled the repair free of charge.
I have also noticed that at least one Keysight product sent to Dave for tear down only had a 30 or 90 day warranty - this doesn't seem too unreasonable though.
Everything combined had me wondering if it was maybe Keysight standard practice to give a shortened warranty on all prize/promotional items.
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Everything combined had me wondering if it was maybe Keysight standard practice to give a shortened warranty on all prize/promotional items.
That would be a real source of anxiety for an expensive product.
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Everything combined had me wondering if it was maybe Keysight standard practice to give a shortened warranty on all prize/promotional items.
That would be a real source of anxiety for an expensive product.
Why? There are some people who seem more than happy to pay over many $1000's to the VAT man for a purely technical reason. It's a "gift" after all. If it fails on day 1, why should they have any come back with Keysight? Keysight didn't charge the VAT - the scope was given away for free. They don't have any liability with the Mail Order Protection Schemes either, because you didn't mail order it or pay a bean to Keysight.
Take it up with the tax authorities that some people appear to know and love :palm: after all many of you insist that they deserve their implied cut from a MSRP transaction that NEVER HAPPENED! :palm:
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You missed my point. It was not a complaint - but an expression of concern.
If I had such a scope without warranty, I would be hoping like hell that nothing went wrong with it. Repairs on a $15,000 scope could be somewhat expensive. Without warranty, it could become an expensive doorstop well before it's time.
It's only the reputation of the company that would ease that concern - but there are always things that can go wrong in a production environment .... and I'd be the one likely to get a failed cap that ruins a thousand dollar board.
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You missed my point. It was not a complaint - but an expression of concern.
If I had such a scope without warranty, I would be hoping like hell that nothing went wrong with it. Repairs on a $15,000 scope could be somewhat expensive. Without warranty, it could become an expensive doorstop well before it's time.
It's only the reputation of the company that would ease that concern - but there are always things that can go wrong in a production environment .... and I'd be the one likely to get a failed cap that ruins a thousand dollar board.
Sorry, I was just being sarcastic with the bozos that keep shouting about "Didn't you read the small print T&C's? check with your accountant and lawyer before entering the comp?", etc..
All of this would become moot if Keysight simply sent the goods from a local distributor (which they have already stated they will), along with a VAT invoice including a 100% discount. It really is that simple. Their books will be in order and the VAT man doesn't have to send the dogs on end customers, which they don't anyway - they always go for the last link in the chain.
Why they haven't stated it would be dealt with this way is beyond me?
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Apologies. Sarcasm doesn't always come through clearly.
Text based communication often leaves a lot to be desired. I've frequently referred to it as being like trying to appreciate opera via teletype.
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Why they haven't stated it would be dealt with this way is beyond me?
How the scopes are supplied is 100% dependent on where you live, and we're working that out with the winners. It may come from a distributor, but not for every situation. The goal is to run through the distributors, but every region has their own laws and regulations on how sweepstakes can/can't work.
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All of this would become moot if Keysight simply sent the goods from a local distributor (which they have already stated they will), along with a VAT invoice including a 100% discount. It really is that simple. Their books will be in order and the VAT man doesn't have to send the dogs on end customers, which they don't anyway - they always go for the last link in the chain.
Is that the official view of a tax accountant and HMRC, or just what we'd all like to happen?
The only official reference I've found to this situation is that VAT is due based on the non-discounted price on a prize. If you're a VAT registered company then of course it's not a problem as the VAT will be reclaimed.
If you could get away with zero VAT on imports by just saying it's a prize, everybody would be doing it, much like the infamous circular invoice mobile phone VAT scam.
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The only official reference I've found to this situation is that VAT is due based on the non-discounted price on a prize gift. If you're a VAT registered company then of course it's not a problem as the VAT will be reclaimed.
Considering 100% VAT is only applicable on MRRP on "gifts" (Which I would say are of a personal and/or occasional nature) - typically given without any invoice, then it makes sense. (Oh how rude is it to give someone a gift with a price attached! shameful!)
Providing an invoice for whatever value you want (which is up to the seller, not the HMRC), and then adding a line for discount applied (even 100%) does not make it a gift. Also, samples are 100% VAT free. I would say a quantity of 1 is a perfect example of a sample. Luring a potential customer is what promotional samples are all about...
Realistically no VAT inspector worth his salt is going to waste time investigating whether these prizes are gifts/samples/100% discount prizes. Do they really want to take a battle up with Keysight on such a tiny volume of stuff? Especially when no actual money has changed hands in the chain?
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Why they haven't stated it would be dealt with this way is beyond me?
How the scopes are supplied is 100% dependent on where you live, and we're working that out with the winners. It may come from a distributor, but not for every situation. The goal is to run through the distributors, but every region has their own laws and regulations on how sweepstakes can/can't work.
That kinda says it all.
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@evb149: Mountain Time, midnight cutoff.
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The only official reference I've found to this situation is that VAT is due based on the non-discounted price on a prize gift. If you're a VAT registered company then of course it's not a problem as the VAT will be reclaimed.
Considering 100% VAT is only applicable on MRRP on "gifts" (Which I would say are of a personal and/or occasional nature) - typically given without any invoice, then it makes sense. (Oh how rude is it to give someone a gift with a price attached! shameful!)
Providing an invoice for whatever value you want (which is up to the seller, not the HMRC), and then adding a line for discount applied (even 100%) does not make it a gift. Also, samples are 100% VAT free. I would say a quantity of 1 is a perfect example of a sample. Luring a potential customer is what promotional samples are all about...
Realistically no VAT inspector worth his salt is going to waste time investigating whether these prizes are gifts/samples/100% discount prizes. Do they really want to take a battle up with Keysight on such a tiny volume of stuff? Especially when no actual money has changed hands in the chain?
Well we can all live in hope, if we get to win a prize that is.
Is that your opinion of what we'd all like to happen, or that of a tax accountant and/or HMRC?
As I said before if we could get away with paying no VAT by saying everything's a prize, we'd all be at it. While you might think it's noise on the accounting sheet in the big scheme of things, I don't know of any accountant who would squirrel away an odd item of non-trifling value, and the prizes are definitely that.
It's not a "sample" as it doesn't fit HMRC's description, punters aren't testing the product with an intention of making a future purchase.
On the other hand gifts are specifically charged at the full value, and is the closest official text that can find that reflects the scenario.
https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts (https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/discounts-and-free-gifts)
As I said, we live in hope, but I am still glass half empty on the topic. If I picked up the phone and asked HMRC specifically the question, the answer is always going to be that VAT is charged, because that's going to be their default answer when they don't know. A reasonably experienced tax accountant would have a better view, in that if HMRC try to make it up as they go along, the accountant would be prepared to challenge the decision.
If you've ever had a VAT inspection, you'd know that you don't mess with the taxman. As soon as they find one suspicious anomaly, it normally points to other shenanigans, and they'll be over you like flies round a turd. I am sure that Keysight and their distributors will be aware of that.
But, as I say, we live in hope.
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I am sure Keysight is not breaking any laws in this so I do take it as a fact what they tell me. But despite that, there seems to be dozen people in this threat who "know" better. Funny though that they know differently.
And as it has been said already, it fully depends on the country you live in. It seems UK is a good choice in this case.
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If you've ever had a VAT inspection, you'd know that you don't mess with the taxman. As soon as they find one suspicious anomaly, it normally points to other shenanigans, and they'll be over you like flies round a turd. I am sure that Keysight and their distributors will be aware of that.
[/quote]
Depends... Years ago... My first real job was in a multinational and we had a VAT audit. It went on for a couple of weeks, but they ran the "F****n B***h" (as she was called) around in circles. She spend most of her time looking for £150 on one item and missing much bigger anomalies. Of course is a help when you have a team of accountants, 6 actuaries and 2 solicitors on staff to keep them busy with mountains of paper work. It is another story if you are a small to medium sized company.
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I have never experienced any VAT issues myself, I am just an employee and also just recently moved to the UK.
I do trust Keysight on this but one general question regarding sweepstakes, let's say in the UK in this case. If I get my prize without paying anything and later someone notices that things didn't go by the book, is there any change that the taxman would come after me? Or is the one who gave the prize they are after? After all, it is not me who accounts any money to the taxman but the seller/giver, right?
The situation is different in the US where prizes are considered as income, then the individual is responsible for accounting to the taxman?
Is this correct?
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I've had a VAT inspection. It was a doddle. She was more concerned about my not having a proper job (being an IT Contractor) and feeling sorry for me not having a cushy permie number like her. There was a brief fluster when I couldn't find the actual paper invoice for an expensive laptop. She was going to charge the VAT and let me claim it back if/when I did find the invoice. Then I remembered I previously had it when I had to phone about warranty issues and filed it elsewhere. Phew, we both laughed a sigh of relief when I found it! She wished me good luck on finding a proper job as she left, despite me saying I am more than happy contracting. It took about an hour all in.
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I am sure Keysight is not breaking any laws in this so I do take it as a fact what they tell me.
But what exactly are they telling you? Because, somehow, you seem to be the only one who was told by KS that there is no VAT to be paid on their prize, anyone else has to. Seems quite strange... :-//
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I am sure Keysight is not breaking any laws in this so I do take it as a fact what they tell me.
But what exactly are they telling you? Because, somehow, you seem to be the only one who was told by KS that there is no VAT to be paid on their prize, anyone else has to. Seems quite strange... :-//
I believe I am also the only UK based winner in this thread. In that sense it is not inconsistent. And one was US which is completely different case, and I don't know what is the problem with Germany but it also doesn't seem to be the first time having some tax issues there. Would be interesting to hear from other countries as well.
Again, I do not have any knowledge or experience of my own on these issues.
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It is, because the UK is part of the EU and the laws regarding import of goods from non-EU countries are the same within the member countries... :P
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I believe I am also the only UK based winner in this thread. In that sense it is not inconsistent.
Who do did you put down as your distributor? Are we better off specifying Farnell or RS rather than a small local one.
BTW: This was happens in Ireland when you tell your Chinese supplier to specify your garlic shipments as apples:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17320460 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17320460)
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I don't think the distributor matters. Maybe they just want you to pick one so that they don't seem to favour anyone.
And I am done with the tax discussion, I don't _know_ anything so I have nothing to add, just hope I will get my scope :-)
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I have never experienced any VAT issues myself, I am just an employee and also just recently moved to the UK.
I do trust Keysight on this but one general question regarding sweepstakes, let's say in the UK in this case. If I get my prize without paying anything and later someone notices that things didn't go by the book, is there any change that the taxman would come after me? Or is the one who gave the prize they are after? After all, it is not me who accounts any money to the taxman but the seller/giver, right?
The situation is different in the US where prizes are considered as income, then the individual is responsible for accounting to the taxman?
Is this correct?
Unless perhaps you import something yourself, a non-VAT registered individual is never responsible for the VAT as far as I can see. I am 99% sure that if any VAT wasn't paid it would be the responsibility of whoever gave or sold you the item.
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The distributor will import the scope "on behalf of a third party", in this particular case of the winner of the prize. It is the same as if the scope was imported by the winner himself, he gets charged with the VAT on import. I'm no expert on this, it's just what i've been told by an tax accountant.
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The distributor will import the scope "on behalf of a third party", in this particular case of the winner of the prize. It is the same as if the scope was imported by the winner himself, he gets charged with the VAT on import. I'm no expert on this, it's just what i've been told by an tax accountant.
That makes sense. But you'd still have to agree to them acting as your agent. Unlike a courier who can assume that whoever they deliver the goods to has to pay.
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Well, there's a contract to be signed by the winners. By accepting the prize and all consequent liabilities they've got you by the balls ;D
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I doubt they would be too worried about your balls ... they're just protecting their own.
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Anyway. It just isn't a very smart idea to accept the prize "just to see what happens". You will end up with a substantial VAT bill (as clearly stated by KS, several times) and if you aren't willing or able to pay it, just don't sign teh contract. It will save both sides a lot of hassle :P
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I have a question that I'd appreciate a little clarification about and which might be a good idea to clarify in the instructions in future sitiuations.
As I recall the instructions say that one can enter once a day, ok, fine, and I assume that something or other (what is not clear) happens if one submits entries more than once a day -- maybe all entries for the day are invalidated, maybe all but one are invalidated, maybe every entry for every day is invalidated, I don't know, I saw no mention.
Speaking just from experience, not from insider knowledge: It tells you you've already entered today, and doesn't accept any more entries from you until the next day. (Presumably, if you do somehow enter multiple times in one day, they'll remove all but one of your entries prior to drawing.)
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I have to ask..
Do you have a need for an oscilloscope?
Yes, within 3 months.
Yes, within 12 months.
No, not within the next year.
How does this work? :-//
If you're in the market for a scope, we'll contact you about it (probably an e-mail?). It has no bearing whatsoever on your chances of winning.
Which means Keysight is trying to keep their spamming to a minimum? :-+
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(...)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-scopmonth-taxes-when-winning-marketing-bullshit/msg901833/#msg901833 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-scopmonth-taxes-when-winning-marketing-bullshit/msg901833/#msg901833)
If these are the actual (and updated?) Declaration and Release Form, can I not win if I'm not in the countries listed in 3.?
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Any news on the warranty issue?
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I also heard you're giving out mugs? Yes please! (I'll pay the shipping if necessary)
(or a shirt)
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Any news on the warranty issue?
Haven't heard back yet, the guy who knows is on vacation and back in town next week.
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I also heard you're giving out mugs? Yes please! (I'll pay the shipping if necessary)
Good idea :-+ A Keysight mug would be a nice addition to all the HP/Agilent/Keysight equipment I have here.
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Yeah, been an Agilent fan for some time now, the only piece of gear i own that's not Agilent is my oscilloscope (slowly adapting to the new name...). I even convinced our lab technician in the chemistry department to get an Agilent spectrophotometer!
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So I've been registering every day for the Keysight scope drawing. I've read a lot on the threads here about the tax liability and as a US resident I guess I'd have to pay several thousand dollars income tax if I win one. I thought for a while about that and decided to look at it from a different angle.
If I went to a bankruptcy auction at a local electronics business, and found a new in box Keysight scope worth $15000, and I had a chance to bid $3000 and win the auction, I probably wouldn't hesitate to do so. So why should I complain about having to pay that amount to the tax man to have one?
But, if I bought one at an auction for $3000 it would be with the idea of reselling it for a profit. Somehow it wouldn't feel quite as right to resell one I won in a contest.
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An honest reflection.
Somehow it wouldn't feel quite as right to resell one I won in a contest.
If I were in your shoes, I would not be too concerned about selling a prize you got from the manufacturer. It's a rather impersonal 'professional' relationship and I doubt Keysight would be worried.
Winning the ones Dave has available is something a bit different. Entry conditions are directly related to the EEVBlog and the interests shared. It is a much more personal involvement.
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I haven't been following this thread. How many EEVblog forum members won a scope this month? Any count?
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5 winners I'm aware of.
Regarding the prize: I think it's a mental thing. Don't think of it as a win. A win would be a free gift given to you at no cost (European style). Think of it more as an offer, given to you by KS, to buy one of their scopes at an reduced price. It suddenly becomes much more attractive this way. And you certainly wouldn't hesitate to sell something you bought with your own money, would you? :-BROKE
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5 winners I'm aware of.
That's quite a representation - especially when more than a third of members haven't been able to enter (according to the poll).
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5 winners I'm aware of.
That in itself makes Eevblog a compelling marketing machine in the industry. Eevblog got a mention in one of the daily vids too.
Certainly if I was offered a new scope at effectively 80% off for a limited period and limited availability I'd be going for it.
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I didn't enter the scope month giveaway because it seems more oriented towards actual companies and not really for a hobbyist like myself.
With the taxes on top of that it kind of sealed my decision not to enter and let the bigger fish go for it and take my chances only with the dumpster scope offered by Dave.
I think it's a great thing what Keysight is doing, at 80% off, is an awesome deal for someone looking for a scope of that caliber. I would feel bad if I won and took a cheaper offering instead because in my mind it takes a great deal away for others.
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I didn't enter the scope month giveaway because it seems more oriented towards actual companies and not really for a hobbyist like myself.
With the taxes on top of that it kind of sealed my decision not to enter and let the bigger fish go for it and take my chances only with the dumpster scope offered by Dave.
I think it's a great thing what Keysight is doing, at 80% off, is an awesome deal for someone looking for a scope of that caliber. I would feel bad if I won and took a cheaper offering instead because in my mind it takes a great deal away for others.
As a small biz owner, I appreciate that. While I am not counting on luck for growth - winning a contest like this would really help me move to a pond with bigger fish. In general, I try to be in a position to take advantage of luck when it does come and rely on my skills when I am down on my luck.
I have submitted a video for the 6000X 6Ghz in hopes that I can make a move into a new realm in high-speed FPGA based DSP. I have been studying day and night, but in the end I have to be able to analyze the real circuits and behavior to use my theoretical knowledge. It would be a huge risk for a small outfit like mine to finance the $70k scope. The scope is only part of the expense, other test equipment and an R&D money to support the design cycle is needed as well. Hope the voting process leans my way.
At the moment, I have my eBay bench of old/used everything and have worked my way through some challenging power electronics designs. Next up - high-speed digital and a new chapter in my career. Fingers crossed.
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5 winners I'm aware of.
Did you count me?
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5 winners I'm aware of.
Yeah but it looks like the bulk of them joined after they had won.
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Did you count me?
Wow, another winner? Congratulations! Did they tell you how much (if anything) you will have to pay for your prize?
Yeah but it looks like the bulk of them joined after they had won.
This seems to be the case. But just look at the "guest : members" ratio at the bottom of the page (1272 : 287 at this very moment), there are obviously a lot more lurkers than active members on the forum, so this isn't really that surprising.
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Wow, another winner? Congratulations! Did they tell you how much (if anything) you will have to pay for your prize?
Thank you.
After I sent the completed pdf back I got nothing in return. Besides I asked about a "solution" not to pay import VAT.
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Thank you.
Besides I asked about a "solution" not to pay import VAT.
Here's a solution: sign it over to me. I'll give you a T-Shirt! O0
(http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.51776957.0989/ra,relaxed_fit,x3104,101010:01c5ca27c6,front-c,600,650,900,850-bg,f8f8f8.1.jpg)
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@ela_ela: please check your pn, there might be some good news for you :)
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How come there are so many winners von Deutschland ? I am's call shenanigans on this racket.
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How come there are so many winners von Deutschland ? I am's call shenanigans on this racket.
Probably the country with the second highest KSC factor: market size * percentage of interested people aware of the contest (EEVblog being popular there helps, I guess).
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Just curious... Have any scope winners actually received their scopes or confirmation that one has been shipped? I've been in contact with the channel manager for almost three weeks - still no scope. She doesn't seem to be in a hurry. No worries... I'm sure I'm not her highest priority. Though the little cynical voice in my head has been telling me this giveaway is just one elaborate April Fools joke. 8) So far, cooler heads have prevailed.
Cheers.
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Just curious... Have any scope winners actually received their scopes or confirmation that one has been shipped? I've been in contact with the channel manager for almost three weeks - still no scope. She doesn't seem to be in a hurry. No worries... I'm sure I'm not her highest priority. Though the little cynical voice in my head has been telling me this giveaway is just one elaborate April Fools joke. 8) So far, cooler heads have prevailed.
Cheers.
I think for efficiency purposes they will probably try and ship all scopes at around the same time.
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I think for efficiency purposes they will probably try and ship all scopes at around the same time.
That may be true. I was contacted by the local distributor a week ago, they confirmed my contact details and address and said will let me know about the schedule later. I will probably drop them an email next week if I don't hear anything by that.
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(http://melindascollins.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/patience-yoda-300x213.jpg)
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@ela_ela: please check your pn, there might be some good news for you :)
Thanks... that are really good news!
Here is the official way to receive your prize if you are from Germany, as told to me by Keysight Germany.
Order your prize from your distributor and point to the winners list at keysight.com and/or forward them the email from Julie.
The distributor will order it from Malaysia and Keysight Germany will pay all costs. You have to pay nothing. Hello to @ProBang2!
We will remember Sebastian the troll who rejected his price.
Cheers,
Manuela
PS: @Ice-Tea: Take your T-Shirt and put it in your ... O0
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PS: @Ice-Tea: Take your T-Shirt and put it in your ... O0
Closet? :popcorn:
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... You have to pay nothing.
If only Americans were so lucky.
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I think it really boils down to cultural differences between the US and the EU. Having to pay something on a "free" prize is absolutely uncommon over here, no one has ever heard of such a case, whereas it seems to be the accepted norm in the US (as I've learned). On the other hand, try to fill up your gas guzzling pickup-truck on a German gas-station, paying German gas prices, you would be broke within a month or two :-DD
Anyway: Kudos to Keysight to sort it out for the lucky winners, what a great and unexpected move by them. Great company, great gear, great people, weird name ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/UGvPGi7.gif)
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The distributor will order it from Malaysia and Keysight Germany will pay all costs. You have to pay nothing.
We will remember Sebastian the troll who rejected his price.
Sometimes life is fair. 8)
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We will remember Sebastian the troll who rejected his pri[z]e.
He is still listed as a winner of a $x0,000 scope. I sincerely hope that the very least Keysight do with these giveaways is demand proof of identity. I mean any script kiddy in a German basement could generate thousands of entries that only allowed 1 chinese person to win, yet loads of Germans? ... and loads of Kraut tears too :-DD
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We will remember Sebastian the troll who rejected his pri[z]e.
He is still listed as a winner of a $x0,000 scope. I sincerely hope that the very least Keysight do with these giveaways is demand proof of identity. I mean any script kiddy in a German basement could generate thousands of entries that only allowed 1 chinese person to win, yet loads of Germans? ... and loads of Kraut tears too :-DD
But there seems to be two 4000X winners on 25th so one is maybe due to Sebastian declining his prize.
Btw, why did they suddenly start to show the last names as well :P
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Loads? I've counted 3 :-//
SebW
ela_ela
raupi
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Btw, why did they suddenly start to show the last names as well :P
They started showing the last names after they were contacted by someone who saw their first name and last initial thinking they had won a brand spankin' new scope only to find out that it was someone else who had won.
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Btw, why did they suddenly start to show the last names as well :P
They started showing the last names after they were contacted by someone who saw their first name and last initial thinking they had won a brand spankin' new scope only to find out that it was someone else who had won.
Happened a couple times, actually. Even with the full names we had to break the heart of one poor soul.
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I looked for my name twice and never saw it Darn.....
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Any news on the warranty issue?
Haven't heard back yet, the guy who knows is on vacation and back in town next week.
Also, regarding warranty, if the winner's scope is fulfilled through a distributor (I think they all did) it gets the standard warranty.
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:-+
Maybe it is time now for the winners to start a new exclusive "Keysight scope month 2016 winners club" thread, where they all could gather together like around a big bonfire to exchange stories and pictures and all things suitable to cause watering mouths on mere mortals :-DD
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:-+
Maybe it is time now for the winners to start a new exclusive "Keysight scope month 2016 winners club" thread, where they all could gather together like around a big bonfire to exchange stories and pictures and all things suitable to cause watering mouths on mere mortals :-DD
Ahhh ... the torture!
..... unless I win one of Dave's ones with the hacked graphics ;D
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Well, it would be cool to see how they're using the fancy scopes. ^-^
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Dave said he would draw a winner for the used Keysight scope March. Did I miss something?
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No.
Dave has indicated he's been busy - but he did a test live stream a couple of days ago, so we are thinking he's getting close to making the draw.
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Hopefully when Dave does the drawing he weeds the list of people he considers ineligible before doing the drawing. It would kill me to have him draw my name and then say "sorry, you don't have enough posts to win. Guess I have to draw again...."
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Hopefully when Dave does the drawing he weeds the list of people he considers ineligible before doing the drawing. It would kill me to have him draw my name and then say "sorry, you don't have enough posts to win. Guess I have to draw again...."
When Dave closed his thread, he whittled it down from almost 1,000 posts to where it is now. So I think there won't be any re-draws from him.
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At least I'm getting something for winning the Keysight prize:
"Discover the Power of the Mixed Signal Oscilloscope (MSO)" marketing emails.
Daniel, are you any relation to Greg Bogdanoff, formerly of National Semiconductor?
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As far as I know, I'm not related to Greg. But, it's a big extended family!
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Didn't win a scope, but got a mug instead (my first Agilent)! ;D
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"Discover the Power of the Mixed Signal Oscilloscope (MSO)" marketing emails.
Yep, I also got one advertisement Mail about educational DVDs from Keysight Germany to my address I used for the lottery. Is this the usual way participants of such events are treated at Keysight? Copy all addresses over to the ad distributor?
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"Discover the Power of the Mixed Signal Oscilloscope (MSO)" marketing emails.
Yep, I also got one advertisement Mail about educational DVDs from Keysight Germany to my address I used for the lottery. Is this the usual way participants of such events are treated at Keysight? Copy all addresses over to the ad distributor?
It's entirely likely that we will use your address for Keysight marketing e-mails. We respect the opt out, so if you get one from us feel free to hit that button. We ABSOLUTELY WON'T sell or distribute your info to anyone else. TANSTAAFL :)
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I would rather read something like "Here is your free MSOX3104T" and requets for shipping address from you. ;) But I will see how it develops. If your ad mails are not getting too obtrusive or too stupid I can live with that. Hint: I work with high power RF sources (klystrons) in the L-Band (around 1GHz). Anything from few µW to MW is possible.
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I got my scope today (or it was here on Friday, I just didn't know it). Any news from other winners?
:-/O :-BROKE
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I got my scope today (or it was here on Friday, I just didn't know it). Any news from other winners?
:-/O :-BROKE
Great news! :-+ I trust the Scottish Customs didn't hold it to ransom, sending the Sheriff and his bailiffs demanding their groats? ;D
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I got my scope today (or it was here on Friday, I just didn't know it). Any news from other winners?
:-/O :-BROKE
Great news! :-+ I trust the Scottish Customs didn't hold it to ransom, sending the Sheriff and his bailiffs demanding their groats? ;D
No problems here :) Hopefully there will not be any late surprises.
Or, the only problem was that I had it delivered to my work, which is an electronics company, and our lab technician is apparently too busy setting up our new lab. So I found my scope set up on one lab bench today :D
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Or, the only problem was that I had it delivered to my work, which is an electronics company, and our lab technician is apparently too busy setting up our new lab. So I found my scope set up on one lab bench today :D
PMSL! :-DD I guess that explains the "got it today, but it was here Friday" thing. Cheeky lab tech half inching your 'scope! That must have been a little surreal :-DD
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I got my scope today (or it was here on Friday, I just didn't know it). Any news from other winners?
:-/O :-BROKE
Congrats!
I got mine 4/15. Strange thing, the distributor told me it would ship on 5/5, so imagine my mixed emotions of annoyance and joy when I saw the box on my porch. Had I known, I would have made sure I was around to accept the package - we've had a rash of package thefts in our neighborhood lately. Fortunately, no issues here.
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anxiously waiting.......not sure when to expect anything.
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The same here, I was told the shipping would be next week and I never got information it was shipped. And then it understandably got mixed with the 25 other Keysight boxes at work, although I had said I am expecting a scope :) And seriously, the lab guy should have noticed that it is a different model than he had ordered. But all good after all.
I guess we didn't get any software unlocking codes? Not that I am complaining, just asking because some previous winners had had them and to make sure I haven't lost any papers in that confusion (needed to dig some papers from a bin...)
And congrats to rx8pilot! I did not follow all the twists of the scope month aftermath but apparently it turned out well! That scope is a beast!
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Or, the only problem was that I had it delivered to my work, which is an electronics company, and our lab technician is apparently too busy setting up our new lab. So I found my scope set up on one lab bench today :D
PMSL! :-DD I guess that explains the "got it today, but it was here Friday" thing. Cheeky lab tech half inching your 'scope! That must have been a little surreal :-DD
Exactly. I had even joked that do not try to steal my scope when I get it - because it is higher bandwidth model. And then I go see the new lab "Wait.. you didn't order this model, is this my scope!?" :box: Well, he was very sorry so apologies accepted. The scope is in new home now. Still in a box though, need to tidy up my desk first.
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Count yourself lucky you didn't get it with a company asset number already burned into the case :-BROKE
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(http://www.vagscene-forum.de/wcf/images/smilies/this_thread_is_worthless_without_pics.gif)
Did you ask them about the software options? Dave, in one of his vids, mentioned that the "crusty old dumpster scopes" he gave away were fully optioned up.
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I don't know if I am gonna get mine. I am in extended leave abroad and I was using my work mail account which have been suspended. Last time I checked the distributor was suppose to contact me. That was 2 weeks ago...
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Do you know who the distributor is? Why not contact them directly yourself?
http://www.keysight.com/main/partnerfinder.jspx?pageMode=RS&N=1+187554+187537&cc=US&lc=eng&cmpid=zzfinddistributor-euro (http://www.keysight.com/main/partnerfinder.jspx?pageMode=RS&N=1+187554+187537&cc=US&lc=eng&cmpid=zzfinddistributor-euro)
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It is the UK distributor, Julie mentioned the name Art McFall.
Now that I am in France I would prefer have it deliver there but get it deliver at least.
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"The UK distributor" could be one of several; check the link I posted for a list.
Personally I'd start with Aspen and go from there.
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And congrats to rx8pilot! I did not follow all the twists of the scope month aftermath but apparently it turned out well! That scope is a beast!
There were enough twists/turns/villains/heroes to make a TV movie. Totally wild ride that, somehow, Keysight managed to wrangle with finesse in the end.
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I guess we didn't get any software unlocking codes? Not that I am complaining, just asking because some previous winners had had them and to make sure I haven't lost any papers in that confusion (needed to dig some papers from a bin...)
They did not include the software features for the 3000s... unless you picked a lesser scope... and asked nicely. ;) I could not get Julie to throw in the LAN adapter, though.
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(http://www.vagscene-forum.de/wcf/images/smilies/this_thread_is_worthless_without_pics.gif)
Did you ask them about the software options? Dave, in one of his vids, mentioned that the "crusty old dumpster scopes" he gave away were fully optioned up.
Sorry. I meant to post when I got it - pics 'n all - but got bogged down with life-y type stuff.
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Looks like all available licenses. Nice!! Did it come with the logic probe cables?
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Damn. I could have given some bandwidth for the software bits :D Especially as I don't have a signal generator.
Yes, logic probes are provided, and 4x 500MHz passive probes. They are slightly different in 1G model (or the difference is between T and X series, I was comparing to 3054X) but the same bandwidth.
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You lucky sausages. Maybe this time next year... sigh! :clap:
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Damn. I could have given some bandwidth for the software bits :D Especially as I don't have a signal generator.
You do now!
DSOX3WAVEGEN WaveGen 20 MHz Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generator
From:
http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x202183-pn-MSOX3024T/mixed-signal-oscilloscope-200-mhz-4-analog-plus-16-digital-channels?pm=op (http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x202183-pn-MSOX3024T/mixed-signal-oscilloscope-200-mhz-4-analog-plus-16-digital-channels?pm=op)
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Technically it's there, yes. But the price to get the licence is ridiculous, you could buy a Siglent SDG2042X plus a capable handheld DMM for that :-DD
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Damn. I could have given some bandwidth for the software bits :D Especially as I don't have a signal generator.
You do now!
DSOX3WAVEGEN WaveGen 20 MHz Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generator
From:
http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x202183-pn-MSOX3024T/mixed-signal-oscilloscope-200-mhz-4-analog-plus-16-digital-channels?pm=op (http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x202183-pn-MSOX3024T/mixed-signal-oscilloscope-200-mhz-4-analog-plus-16-digital-channels?pm=op)
Yes, the hardware. Those are the software options you need to pay for. I don't know how much they are. I don't even know what most of those are but I2C/SPI, I2S, WaveGen, and RSxxx would be nice to have.
Technically it's there, yes. But the price to get the licence is ridiculous, you could buy a Siglent SDG2042X plus a capable handheld DMM for that :-DD
Yeah, I don't know if many even buy them directly individually like that. You can often get some discount bundles or I'm sure companies who buy 10 scopes can get the ones they need for "free" or good discount.
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If you look at the licenses installed on the last picture, not only it has that license but many others :)
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If you look at the licenses installed on the last picture, not only it has that license but many others :)
The only scope that came, by default, with the full license spread is the 6000 that will [cough] spend its life baby-sitting water heaters. One would assume, and I guess our friend Carlos could confirm, that one or both of the bonus 6000s are also loaded. As for the pic above, sorry, I mentioned in a previous post but could have made it clear when I posted the pics... when I chose the lesser scope, I simply asked for the full software package, considering the total is still much less than the original prize. I am much happier with a fully loaded 200 MHz scope vs. a 1 GHz with no options.
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Sorry, got confused, I thought the pictures came from rx8pilot.
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Hi guys, if you won and didn't get software, PM me and I'll see if we can work something out.
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Hi guys, if you won and didn't get software, PM me and I'll see if we can work something out.
THAT IS AWESOME! :-+
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Wow, Daniel, you da man. Makes me even more sad I didn't win one. *sniff* Looking forward to the next event you do.
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One of winners locally to me who won a 3104T already has it on craigslist, sigh.
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Wow, it seems quite a few winners have already received their scopes, how about fellow Germans, anyone got his yet?
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Wow, it seems quite a few winners have already received their scopes, how about fellow Germans, anyone got his yet?
Website of dataTec says: Restocking.
So we have to wait...
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One of winners locally to me who won a 3104T already has it on craigslist, sigh.
I hope:
A) No one buys it.
B) The warranty is valid only for the winner when it's a "won" piece of equipment
C) All of his power supplies have high ripple.
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Website of dataTec says: Restocking.
So we have to wait...
Yeah, it's almost like Christmas back as a kid, the waiting for the gifts was always the hardest part :)
(http://svn.haxx.se/tsvn/archive-2007-08/att-0039/loading.gif)
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One of winners locally to me who won a 3104T already has it on craigslist, sigh.
I hope:
A) No one buys it.
B) The warranty is valid only for the winner when it's a "won" piece of equipment
C) All of his power supplies have high ripple.
Lol, and he is asking for a full price. Who would buy so expensive piece of equipment from an unknown seller, being unsure about warranty etc.. for the _same_ price you get it from a shop! Even half price can be difficult to get.
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-brand-new-keysight(agilent)-msox3104t-1ghz-mixed-signal-oscilloscope/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-brand-new-keysight(agilent)-msox3104t-1ghz-mixed-signal-oscilloscope/)
I am looking for $13,500, but am open to negotiation
:o :palm:
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You can buy a new one for less :)
http://www.transcat.ca/keysight-technologies-msox3000-msox3104t (http://www.transcat.ca/keysight-technologies-msox3000-msox3104t)
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One of winners locally to me who won a 3104T already has it on craigslist, sigh.
I don't see the problem, I'd sell it too.
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Didn't win a scope but this a huge coffee mug, much appreciated Daniel, its Winter here so this will come in handy.
@Dave
Even a Keysight Mug shipped all the way from Colorado Springs journeys its way down to the tip of South Africa (in tact no packets lost). (Never mind what Frankey Tom claims) ;D
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Hope the mug taxes did not ruin your life, lol.
In my little corner of the world - coffee mugs are the ideal way to get name recognition into the heart of the purchase decision. I never buy anything expensive without my favorite coffee/tea mug close by.
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Hope the mug taxes did not ruin your life, lol.
zero taxes, package contents said "software" >:D
In my little corner of the world - coffee mugs are the ideal way to get name recognition into the heart of the purchase decision. I never buy anything expensive without my favorite coffee/tea mug close by.
In my case its the reverse case, I bought a 34461A then indirectly got the Mug, (Note:I got the mug from scopemonth daily suggestions)
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A very nice mug, indeed. Thanks for the (teardown) photo. :-DD
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In my case its the reverse case, I bought a 34461A then indirectly got the Mug, (Note:I got the mug from scopemonth daily suggestions)
Daniel sent me a mug as well, for my suggestion that they make a scope that could do my taxes. :) The idea came straight from all the tax liability discussions here on the forum. I made an unboxing video too. Everyone with a YouTube channel has to have an unboxing video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gm9zSKr_Ow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gm9zSKr_Ow)
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The contest did raise my awareness of keysights brand, but i hav'nt yet bought one.
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Hi folks,
just to give you a quick update, the scope month scopes finally arrived even in Germany. Well, to be exact, the distributor already had them in stock for 3 weeks but they apparently hadn’t found any time to hand one to me until today. Germany seems to be a bit special in this respect, they don’t ship them via parcel service as in other countries, they insist to hand them to you by a distributor sales representative. So I got an invitation to visit the distributors HQ in Reutlingen today, a ~80km drive from where I live, to get my scope handed to me there. Kind of weird, but yeah, that’s how it is so I jumped into my car, heading north. To add a little drama to it, we had massive rainfalls and a lot of heavy floodings in that area the night before and I was a little bit anxious about closed roads or worse. Check it out, all hell broke loose:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3rsN5PJDrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3rsN5PJDrg)
But all went well, the sales rep was very friendly and gave me a short introduction to the scope. It was a bit of an unusual situation for both of us, he probably wasn’t used to deal with private customers (they usually only deal with businesses) and I was only listening to him with half an ear because, to be honest, all I wanted was to grab my scope and drive home with it as fast as I could... But it was all hunky dory, nothing to complain about... I’ll keep it running over night to check if it’s stable and will do the recommended firmware update tomorrow.
Thanks to the whole scope month team for this awesome giveaway, I entered it with no real hopes of winning, just for the fun of it and now there’s a fantastic shiny new scope sitting on the bench right in front of me. Somehow, I still can’t believe it :-).
And thanks to Dave, because he is the host of this forum, the place where I've learned about the giveaway. Without the EEVblog forum I probably never would have known about it.
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Congratulations! :clap: :clap: :-+ :clap: :clap:
Just to make it clear: The scope is fully equipped with all options? Permanent?
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Looks like the majority of them are trial options. Can't quite tell if that's a 6 or an 8 (1 month or 3).
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Thanks ProBang2
Yes, the options with the asterisks (bit hard to see on the image) are only 30 day trials. But I'm in touch with Mr. Bogdanoff :)
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Still waiting for mine. :popcorn:
Got in touch with D. Bogdanoff and now waiting to hear from the distributor.
At least when you have to pick it up yourself, you are not worry about paying any taxes. Asked for the 250Mhz version just because of that risk (probably be too cautious)...
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Still waiting for mine. :popcorn:
Got in touch with D. Bogdanoff and now waiting to hear from the distributor.
Daniel needs a full time contest fulfillment and logistics assistant. I suspect he has been getting a tidal wave of emails asking about details.
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Hope the mug taxes did not ruin your life, lol.
In my little corner of the world - coffee mugs are the ideal way to get name recognition into the heart of the purchase decision. I never buy anything expensive without my favorite coffee/tea mug close by.
Key sight sent me a free mug for having an article published that used their software. The declared value was 34 Cents above the EU duty threshold, so the free mug cost me 43 Euros in duty+handling fees. Not sure I can afford to publish any more articles!
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Key sight sent me a free mug for having an article published that used their software. The declared value was 34 Cents above the EU duty threshold, so the free mug cost me 43 Euros in duty+handling fees. Not sure I can afford to publish any more articles!
just out of curiosity.. what was the value ? i'm pretty sure the limit for not paying vat nor customs duty for the whole EU is 22 euros.. above 22 euros value you pay the local VAT but still not paying customs duty... above 150 euros value you pay both.
so did they declare the value of the mug above 150 euros ? (above 150Eur would match the 43eur duties you mention). actually that would be kind of stupid or done on purpose by them...
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Sounds more like a surcharge fee from the shipping company for doing the clearance.
(e.g. DHL Finland: 5% of the duty charged + VAT or at least 24.80€)
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Hope the mug taxes did not ruin your life, lol.
In my little corner of the world - coffee mugs are the ideal way to get name recognition into the heart of the purchase decision. I never buy anything expensive without my favorite coffee/tea mug close by.
Key sight sent me a free mug for having an article published that used their software. The declared value was 34 Cents above the EU duty threshold, so the free mug cost me 43 Euros in duty+handling fees. Not sure I can afford to publish any more articles!
Yet another reason for #Brexit - the absurd EU import VAT level. Australia has $1000 before customs are interested. Those of us in the EU dictatorship, £15 or thereabouts. The VAT on £15 is £3. But of course we all have to pay for the paperwork and mentally challenged to establish that 20% calculation - and sometimes the weeks sitting in customs while they work it out - then get charged £10+ for their hard work of paying £3 tax. That same tax costs the HMRC at least 10 times as much to process as it does a streamlined capitalist for profit company like DHL or UPS. So the taxpayers waste £100 to collect £3 and the couriers get £10+
Having said that, how on earth Keysight have the gall to declare a promotional mug to have a value of £15+ is beyond me. :palm: If they ticked the "gift" box then it would probably get through, just...
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Having said that, how on earth Keysight have the gall to declare a promotional mug to have a value of £15+ is beyond me. :palm: If they ticked the "gift" box then it would probably get through, just...
Because the US has a high duty-free threshold, senders in the US often just don't know that it's important not to over-declare stuff.
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Sign up for a free Keysight seminar in your city (look up their seminar schedule) and get a mug for free
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Key sight sent me a free mug for having an article published that used their software. The declared value was 34 Cents above the EU duty threshold, so the free mug cost me 43 Euros in duty+handling fees. Not sure I can afford to publish any more articles!
just out of curiosity.. what was the value ? i'm pretty sure the limit for not paying vat nor customs duty for the whole EU is 22 euros.. above 22 euros value you pay the local VAT but still not paying customs duty... above 150 euros value you pay both.
so did they declare the value of the mug above 150 euros ? (above 150Eur would match the 43eur duties you mention). actually that would be kind of stupid or done on purpose by them...
They valued the mug at 15 Dollars, and included a Starbucks card with 10 Dollars of credit. This equated to 22.34 Euros, and therefore liable for local charges. It was the courier minimum charges that bumped things up so much. I have to say that I'm confused by the Brexit comments though - how would that change the need to make a customs declaration, let alone in another country!
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They valued the mug at 15 Dollars, and included a Starbucks card with 10 Dollars of credit. This equated to 22.34 Euros, and therefore liable for local charges. It was the courier minimum charges that bumped things up so much. I have to say that I'm confused by the Brexit comments though - how would that change the need to make a customs declaration, let alone in another country!
It won't change the need to make the declaration. However the CN22 includes a 'gift' tick-box which has a higher threshold (about double).
The couriers minimum charges did not kick in until they had to go through the ordeal of calculating the *4.47 EUR VAT for you.
I bring up the Brexit issue because I get cheesed off with this outright extortion over here too.
The UK is tied to these ludicrously low EU-wide tax thresholds, even though we are not in the EURO. HMRC have to implement their own exchange rate mechanism for GBP/EUR in order to comply with the dictats from Brussels.
I'm pretty sure once we have our own government back in charge such stupid thresholds (which surely cost the tax authorities far more to enforce than they collect) will be a thing of the past. Of course the courier lobbyists will try it on with our politicians too in order to keep their scam. But we elect and vote out politicians, unlike the dictators at the EU commission. I wonder how many backhanders and sweeteners the likes of DHL have negotiated in Brussels smoke filled rooms?
(* ETA: I just did the VAT calculation. That will be 20 EUR processing fee, thank you :-DD )
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They valued the mug at 15 Dollars, and included a Starbucks card with 10 Dollars of credit. This equated to 22.34 Euros, and therefore liable for local charges. It was the courier minimum charges that bumped things up so much. I have to say that I'm confused by the Brexit comments though - how would that change the need to make a customs declaration, let alone in another country!
The couriers minimum charges did not kick in until they had to go through the ordeal of calculating the 4 EUR VAT for you.
That isn't true. A customs declaration is required for all goods entering a country (but the UK is pretty lax at applying this - even as an EU member), and for this DHL charge 25 Euros. They then charge 10 Euros to administer something else (I can't remember), charge VAT on this, then charge the VAT on the goods. So something like 41 Euros is what DHL charge, even for an empty box, marked as a gift.
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I've just plugged in the USB Dongle of my Logitech wireless mouse and it works a treat, nice :)
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Key sight sent me a free mug for having an article published that used their software. The declared value was 34 Cents above the EU duty threshold, so the free mug cost me 43 Euros in duty+handling fees. Not sure I can afford to publish any more articles!
This is a joke, right? I hope?
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I'm afraid not and I'm not sure the Starbucks credits can be used in the EU. I recently saw an American couple's Starbucks card was declined in Switserland.
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This is a joke, right? I hope?
EU customs duties is not a joke.. Or, well, it is, depending on your perspective.. :)
I'd be very surprised if this is a joke. Sounds very much as par for the course.
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At least when you have to pick it up yourself, you are not worry about paying any taxes.
And it's also a great way for the distributor to save some shipping costs >:D
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Customs and those low value limits are nuisance but it is the courier fees making these cases ridiculous, there should be some regulations to forbid those. In Finland (I am Finnish) I had an option with DHL to declare a parcel myself or let them do it. If they do it, of course it costs although it still was not that much. But this is 2 years ago.
Now after living in the UK for 18 months, I am still not completely aware how things go here. I have only ordered PCBs from China, and also noticed DHL just adding their fees - no options. Last time I chose FedEx, no fees (and no customs either?), and at least I haven't seen an invoice yet. I have ordered stuff from Mouser few times but those always go smoothly.
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Mouser pay duties and taxes upfront, so there's nothing more to pay when the parcel lands in the EU. Just tick the box for free FedEx shipping.
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Now after living in the UK for 18 months, I am still not completely aware how things go here. I have only ordered PCBs from China, and also noticed DHL just adding their fees - no options. Last time I chose FedEx, no fees (and no customs either?), and at least I haven't seen an invoice yet. I have ordered stuff from Mouser few times but those always go smoothly.
It depends on the circumstances, and each carrier/supplier combo frequently have different setups.
As an example for Fedex/Mouser, they use a notional address in (ISTR) Cologne (EU) so it behaves as if it were shipped from an EU country.
If you're VAT registered and supply Mouser with your VAT ID then they will supply the good as if they come from Cologne, i.e., any invoiced VAT amount will be zero.
If you're retail customer, VAT will be added to your bill, and due at check out.
This is just the way Mouser have it setup.
Not many smaller outfits have such arrangements, but in general if there's duty or taxes to be paid Fedex go after it after delivery, whereas the likes of UPS and most other carriers won't deliver until they've received payment. DOn't ignore the Fedex invoice either, they will refer it to a debt collection agency after a couple of months or so.
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Mouser pay duties and taxes upfront, so there's nothing more to pay when the parcel lands in the EU. Just tick the box for free FedEx shipping.
When I received a scope from the Keysight eBay store a few months ago, shipped from Malaysia, the eBay invoice was recalculated with VAT added, apparently this is a standard Incoterms process "Delivered Duty Paid" (DDP). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms
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Hey guys,
is this the Keysight scope month 2016 winners club? :P
I just got my scope today. Lucky for me, a sales representative came to my house.
He struggled a bit entering a private living space (removing shoes or not) and sitting with him in my living room was a bit strange. Maybe this was due to the fact, that I have all of my electronic-related stuff in the hackerspace and nothing at home.
He also ask me, if I am somehow related to electronics and if I know what an Oscilloscope is.
I should have known that "Yeaah, I saw the youtube-video where some guys tried to do a BBQ with it" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqbp0dEQcnk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqbp0dEQcnk) ) was definitely not the right answer in this situation - my fault.
Then it tooks me some time to convince him, but in the end I got this nice scope (and his card if I have any further questions).
For testing this 1-GHz beast, the best thing I could find at home is a 433MHz remote for powersockets.
I am using the "store waveform"-function to see the two different patterns for knob A and B in one picture (sorry for the bad quality, who need groundclips?).
And last but not least: Thanks to all people involved into the scopelottery and to Dave for the decent hints. ;D
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"Yeaah, I saw the youtube-video where some guys tried to do a BBQ with it" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqbp0dEQcnk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqbp0dEQcnk) )
Are they giving away the marketing guy's Cayman, too? :popcorn:
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I've constantly sales reps ringing at my door. Unfortunately they're either from Vorwerk, wanting to sell insanely priced vacuum cleaners to me or some Jehova's witnesses who promise eternal life in exchange for my soul. The one from Keysight has yet to show up. Sigh, maybe next year... :popcorn:
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Key sight sent me a free mug for having an article published that used their software. The declared value was 34 Cents above the EU duty threshold, so the free mug cost me 43 Euros in duty+handling fees. Not sure I can afford to publish any more articles!
This is a joke, right? I hope?
It's no joke, but as others said the problem is that the couriers add silly amounts of handling fees on the deliveries. I was able to use the Starbucks card in San Francisco last week, and it is quite a nice mug (goes well next to my Rohde and Schwarz one!).
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Are they giving away the marketing guy's Cayman, too? :popcorn:
I just asked the owner (not me, sadly). He said **** no. Nice try!
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"Yeaah, I saw the youtube-video where some guys tried to do a BBQ with it" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqbp0dEQcnk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqbp0dEQcnk) )
Are they giving away the marketing guy's Cayman, too? :popcorn:
Looks almost as ridiculous as the feature list I get to some projects.
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They valued the mug at 15 Dollars, and included a Starbucks card with 10 Dollars of credit. This equated to 22.34 Euros, and therefore liable for local charges. It was the courier minimum charges that bumped things up so much. I have to say that I'm confused by the Brexit comments though - how would that change the need to make a customs declaration, let alone in another country!
The couriers minimum charges did not kick in until they had to go through the ordeal of calculating the 4 EUR VAT for you.
That isn't true. A customs declaration is required for all goods entering a country (but the UK is pretty lax at applying this - even as an EU member), and for this DHL charge 25 Euros. They then charge 10 Euros to administer something else (I can't remember), charge VAT on this, then charge the VAT on the goods. So something like 41 Euros is what DHL charge, even for an empty box, marked as a gift.
I refuse to pay a cent to DHL, therefore drive to the customs and deal with them myself and pay no other fees than VAT. Though it's a waste of 2 hours of time because Customs are located just out of the city.
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Looks almost as ridiculous as the feature list I get to some projects.
What does? The Cayman?!
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No Spain? We are all Europe and near France :*
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My "crazy" weekend alone when the better half is away ;D
So yes, the prize scope is in use here as well. I have been mostly designing audio stuff recently. Unfortunately scope has no use in performance measurements but of course it has its place in debugging, sanity checks, and especially in digital audio what I have been designing recently. This is a DAC design. It works and performance seems very good in initial tests (measured with Audio Precision at work - lucky me). However, there are something to investigate in reset circuit and power up sequencing. I was just using the digital channels and I2S decoding for the first time in my scope, I am checking some unexpected behaviour of the SPDIF receiver.
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I like the way you arranged your power supplies, staggered and at an angle.
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I like the way you arranged your power supplies, staggered and at an angle.
It is a bit of a challenge to have one desk to serve all kinds of purposes but it works ok at the moment. Of course when I have some measurements going on, there is not much space for anything else.
This was taken when I got the scope. So basically my lab is one decent soldering iron (Metcal), two cheap rubbish Chinese power supplies, and ridiculously expensive scope :D And two cheap portable DMMs. Plus basic hand tools, mostly SMD components, and some basic connectors etc. I don't collect and store loads of old stuff but order components what I need when designing something. Keeps the "lab" compact, kind of necessity when living in a flat in a city.
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The scope balances out the rest. ;D
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Finally got my precious, with the app bundle too.
A great replacement for my hacked DS1054z.
Thank you everyone at Keysight for this great scope :-+
(https://s32.postimg.org/9fb9tyyz5/MSOX3024_T_0.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9fb9tyyz5/)
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Oh man, seeing all you get your scopes is making me jealous! (I am a winner too, with a growing list of experiments)
I really hope that Keysight is doing well out of that promotion! I remember watching the videos an only seeing a couple hundred views and did rough math to come to the conclusion that Keysight were giving away way much more than they will get in sales.
Awesome to see other winners are getting their scopes!
When is Power Supply Month? And Current Load Month for that matter ? :P
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Oh man, seeing all you get your scopes is making me jealous! (I am a winner too, with a growing list of experiments)
I really hope that Keysight is doing well out of that promotion! I remember watching the videos an only seeing a couple hundred views and did rough math to come to the conclusion that Keysight were giving away way much more than they will get in sales.
Awesome to see other winners are getting their scopes!
When is Power Supply Month? And Current Load Month for that matter ? :P
Welcome to the forum.
Well done :-+ ya lucky bugger.
We'll want to see pics.
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Yep - Pics or it didn't happen.
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When is Power Supply Month? And Current Load Month for that matter ? :P
I am waiting for the Audio Analyzer Month! 8) May need to wait a while :P
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Oh wow. Other winners are requesting a slower scope, but with the software options..
Its probably too late for me to change.. But i asked anyway.. I'm stoked either way.
Anyone else ask to swap this late on?
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I request a slower scope straight away as I wasn't going to pay the custom fees for the 1Ghz but I could do with the 200Mhz. You have to fill in new paperwork.
I did not requested the application bundle, it was requested/added by the Keysight representative :-+ . The distributor just passed the license paper on to me. It is great as it is supposed to enable the signal generator within the scope (and loads of other stuff).
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Oh wow. Other winners are requesting a slower scope, but with the software options..
Its probably too late for me to change.. But i asked anyway.. I'm stoked either way.
Anyone else ask to swap this late on?
Hint: Please read reply #492 in this thread :-+
How many winners do we have here on the forums now, I've lost track but there are many... Impressive...
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Oh wow. Other winners are requesting a slower scope, but with the software options..
Its probably too late for me to change.. But i asked anyway.. I'm stoked either way.
Anyone else ask to swap this late on?
Hint: Please read reply #492 in this thread :-+
How many winners do we have here on the forums now, I've lost track but there are many... Impressive...
Oh 8).. I missed that post from Daniel. I was reading through this thread. Cheers for that heads up. :-+
It would be too difficult to convince my wife to spend any money on it though ::). Since electronics is just a hobby for me, the mortgage and baby kind of take priority to all that :P
One of the things i wanted to do with the scope was build some interface so i can monitor debugging output from multiple ICs. Something like syslog in Linux, but for multiple serial data streams instead of processes, so i really do want that Ethernet adapter.
Certainly will be giving Daniel a DM once i have the scope, and after i have shown it off and made all by friends jealous, which is harder to do then you might think! After i won the scope, the first thing i learnt was how few people know what a scope is |O. I spent hours explaining it!
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.... and after i have shown it off and made all by friends jealous, which is harder to do then you might think! After i won the scope, the first thing i learnt was how few people know what a scope is |O. I spent hours explaining it!
I find that very easy to believe. A few years ago, one of my sons was talking to a mate with a technical background and the mate made reference to how a scope would be useful. This mate expected my son to just look at him with a blank expression (for exactly the reason you mentioned) but was flabbergasted that my son not only knew precisely what a scope was - but that we had one in the house. Apparently the mate was so incredulous, it took several further questions for him to accept the fact. He was so used to people not knowing, that he had built up that expectation ... then to find someone who actually had one around just blew his mind.
I just wish I'd been around to see the fun.
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Just had a call from the Keysight local area manager, who said Ill get shipping details for it soon...
Now i can't stop checking my inbox.
And pics or it didn't happen.
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And this beauty just showed up!
Time to re-learn all my motor memory that was trained using that old CRO.
A huge thanks to everyone at Keysight for this amazing machine, and all their other machines! :-+
I guess its a thing to just have a play with the probe compensation output :P
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what an upgrade! congratulations.
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Nice one Leon. :-+
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Such eye candy......
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Very Cool.
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Sweet! Hope you have many happy years together. :clap:
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And for the money shot!
I was able to talk Daniel from Keysight in to getting the app bundle for a very reasonable price!
And it really does turn this into an amazing work horse.
I'm only beginning to realise how much time this saves!
THANK YOU!
Note: I was not sure if putting serial numbers online was a good idea, so i shopped it out.
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The APP Bundle is really awesome. A customer called today needing to dig intoca CAN bus and create an interface. Not a problem! Didn't think I needed it until I needed it. Amazing.
Sent from my horrible mobile....
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Note: I was not sure if putting serial numbers online was a good idea, so i shopped it out.
Always a good move, in my book.
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The APP Bundle is really awesome. A customer called today needing to dig intoca CAN bus and create an interface. Not a problem! Didn't think I needed it until I needed it. Amazing.
It is always rewarding when you look at a problem and realise - Hey! I can do that!!
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I want one new Keysight scope too,I have an old analog 350MHz Tekteronix , But playing with these new beast would be very nice,and I know that I'm in Iran but certainly I deserve to have them! Please make a new regulation to hand over one of them to me, Thanks in advance :)
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The Keysight giveaway finished 6 months ago.
Keep your eyes open to see what, if anything, might happen in the future.
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Keep your eyes open to see what, if anything, might happen in the future.
Cyber Week: http://www.keysight.com/main/redirector.jspx?action=ref&cc=US&nfr=-11143&ckey=2792311&cname=EDITORIAL (http://www.keysight.com/main/redirector.jspx?action=ref&cc=US&nfr=-11143&ckey=2792311&cname=EDITORIAL) (hope this link works) with free 'scopes.
No, not in my country >:(