Author Topic: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A  (Read 20510 times)

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Offline nihtila

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2017, 05:46:18 am »
There are no income taxes and NI on prizes in the UK, at least that is what I have been told by many.

So it is about the courier company that takes the money before delivering your parcel. And that is VAT plus their own charges (afaik no import duties on electronics).

I am also not 100% sure but quite sure this is how it goes in practice.
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Offline MK14

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2017, 05:49:02 am »
There are no income taxes and NI on prizes in the UK, at least that is what I have been told by many.

So it is about the courier company that takes the money before delivering your parcel. And that is VAT plus their own charges (afaik no import duties on electronics).

I am also not 100% sure but quite sure this is how it goes in practice.

Sorry, I strayed off topic (re:taxes).
Yes, I agree, what you just said, it sounds about right.
There USE to be import duties on top of the VAT, but that was recently removed for electronics to make Europe more competitive with China (or so I heard).
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2017, 05:53:46 am »
It is a bit of guess work. I did not pay anything for my MSOX3104T (delivered from the UK) but my friend paid £110 for the DSOX1102G (delivered from Malaysia) this year. Where did that £110 come from, no idea. There was no value written anywhere in the paperwork or any reference how DHL came up with that number. As it was lower than could have been, was just better to pay it without asking.

I am not too worried about taxes on this PSU (unlike my scope which had a list price of £10k+) but I do hope it will be significantly less than £350 as that is almost a price of a Rigol DP832 or similar. As this PSU is new, it is possibly it comes directly from Malaysia. Anyway, your £350 sounds high as the price of this PSU is around £1000. AFAIK, there are no import duties on electronics and there will not be delivery charges for us either. Unfortunately delivery companies' stupid charges are real. After all, I stay confident it would be max £200. I will keep you informed.

Thanks, I'm VERY interested. As it tends to dictate how interested I am, with these various competitions.
I did not even enter the Keysight scope competitions, because I was too scared I would get landed with a huge bill, of thousands of pounds. Even though it was an amazing, dream worthy scope.

You did really well, getting it from Keysight UK, as that must have saved you a fortune.
 

Online HighVoltage

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2017, 11:57:46 pm »
Yesterday I got shipping notification by email and today the package was already received from Keysight Malaysia with the new E36312A.

What a great power supply!
And it is much heavier than I had expected it to be.

Hmm, I can not say that I dislike the new black color but it probably takes a few weeks to get used to it. My Lenovo Laptop is also black and I like it a lot in that color, so its probably just a mindset.

Ok, I will have some fun with a new PSU now.
Thanks again to Keysight and Daniel.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2017, 11:52:34 am »
Looks great, HV! I'm still keeping my hopes up for one.  :)
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Offline Krampmeier

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2017, 05:24:24 am »
Another contest winner greeting the horde here! I got the email from Kim this morning, and still can't stop grinning like a cheshire cat  ^-^

A big THANK YOU to the Keysight team for holding this contest, and especially to Daniel (I would have missed the contest without this thread)  :clap:!

Of cause, I will also report about the good and odd things I find on this very promising power supply in the "Test Equipment" subforum, and share the progress on the project I am planning to do using the new workhorse...

Good luck to all fellow EEVblog members who join the competition!
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2017, 05:58:58 am »
Another contest winner greeting the horde here! I got the email from Kim this morning, and still can't stop grinning like a cheshire cat  ^-^
Congratulations!

BTW, I've noticed some of the winner entries popped up at: https://community.keysight.com/community/keysight-blogs/general-electronics-measurement/blog
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2017, 06:06:39 am »
Congratulations Krampmeier!

Thanks for the link capt bullshot!
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Online HighVoltage

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2017, 06:09:50 am »
Congratulations to you, Krampmeier!
Nice to see another winner here at eevblog
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2017, 09:36:29 am »
Congratulations, Krampmeier! I'd be grinning like a Cheshire cat if I were you, too. :-+
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Offline Krampmeier

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #85 on: November 30, 2017, 08:14:11 am »
Thanks!
I also noticed that the first few stories are online already, and I am waiting for more!
For those who are still trying to score, make sure to check the contest rules:
Quote
Judging criteria:
• [Innovative/Creative way in using the new power supply: 40%]
• [Beneficial factors in the new power supply that help you in your design work: 40%]
• [Clarity of story or video presentation: 20%]
I think the innovative and creative aspect is the one that can make a story stand out, so I'd try to put the emphasis there...
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #86 on: November 30, 2017, 12:32:28 pm »
My only hope is that everyone goes on vacation and forgets to enter  :-DD

The first one is killing me. It's a programmable power supply. Great for all kinds of stuff.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2017, 12:53:59 pm »
Yeah, my uses for a power supply are pretty boring. It moves electrons through my circuits. :-DD
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Offline nihtila

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #88 on: November 30, 2017, 08:00:25 pm »
The fact is also that these have been going quite easily as there has not been many entries. As Daniel also said. Probably now a lot more than in the beginning though.

My use case is also nothing innovative or creative - I will use it to power my audio circuits when developing and testing. I made a video of that (my first ever video btw) so possibly got some points from presentation. Beneficial factors were more significant in my case, these PSUs tick many boxes beneficial in audio testing: triple output (dual analog plus digital), linear and low noise/ripple, acoustically quiet as Keysight has pointed out, also good UI as you have large enough display to show all channels unlike those old Agilent supplies showing only one channel at a time. I pointed out all those beneficial factors in my story.

I should get my PSU on tuesday.

Good luck for the upcoming weeks!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 08:02:06 pm by nihtila »
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Offline Krampmeier

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2017, 05:55:37 am »
I also have the impression that the competition is not terribly fierce in this case, especially when compared to the Scope Month.

I actually posted two "stories" after I found that I really suck at making videos, and it would have taken me dozens of takes to stutter something halfway consistent.

The first one was about two topics - constructing a dual PWM DAC and powering it from the new Keysight unit (similar to Nihtila, symmetrical analog plus digital rails), and using the supply for things that are usually done using a Sourcemeter / Source Measure Unit, like semiconductor characterization. Of cause, it has only one quadrant, but with the high setting and read-back accuracy and µA range it could supposedly still be useable for some parts. Why not let it do some sweeps and record the curves via Ethernet?

The other "story" is related to my job and is actually titeled "Why we will not use the E36312A in our new standard test system" and describes exactly that, plus several suggestions fo improvements in the next version / member to the Keysight power supply family.

I don't know which contribution eventually made it, but I know from other contacts with Keithley staff that they are quite open to suggestions - much more so than some other brands.

I could imagine that someone else will have some crazy ideas on what to do with the "step" mode. With a minimum dwell time of 10 ms, is it fast enough to simulate power glitches for automotive stuff? Or for developing new battery charging algorithms?
There may also be unorthodox ideas for using the digital I/Os...

Other winners, did you get any feedback from Keysight after sending in the signed tax documents?
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #90 on: December 01, 2017, 06:48:35 pm »
The programming / step mode could be significantly improved if one could specify to "ramp" between the set points instead of jumping. If you look at my use case: http://wunderkis.de/E36312A/index.html
I've had to enter around 30 steps for my measurement, could have been two steps if the supply would ramp automatically.

Yes, I've got a short notification my paperwork was OK, and then later a shipment notification including a tracking number. Delivery was to my doorstep at no cost, all customs / paperwork done by Keysight.

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #91 on: December 01, 2017, 07:04:32 pm »
What's the minimum dwell time on a step? The documentation shows a potential resolution of 1ms, but I didn't see an actual spec on how fast it can go.
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Offline nihtila

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2017, 09:15:22 pm »
Other winners, did you get any feedback from Keysight after sending in the signed tax documents?

I did not hear anything after sending the documents. Only yesterday, so around 4 weeks later I got an sms from DHL regarding scheduled delivery. Based on the Scope Month, it is normal not to get any update and it may take some time to get the prize. One month is not too bad.
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Online HighVoltage

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2017, 09:20:37 pm »

Other winners, did you get any feedback from Keysight after sending in the signed tax documents?

After sending the tax papers and legal documents back, I got an email that they had received them and that they would contact me again when the package is ready for shipment.
Finally the mail came that it was shipped and I received the package the next day.
No hassle with German customs, somehow Keysight took care of this completely.
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #94 on: December 01, 2017, 10:27:02 pm »

Other winners, did you get any feedback from Keysight after sending in the signed tax documents?

After sending the tax papers and legal documents back, I got an email that they had received them and that they would contact me again when the package is ready for shipment.
Finally the mail came that it was shipped and I received the package the next day.
No hassle with German customs, somehow Keysight took care of this completely.
The same happened to me.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Krampmeier

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2017, 05:54:22 am »
Quote
What's the minimum dwell time on a step? The documentation shows a potential resolution of 1ms, but I didn't see an actual spec on how fast it can go.

Programming guide, page 63:
Code: [Select]
The command specifies the dwell time for each list step. A comma-delimited list of up to 100 steps may be
programmed. Dwell time is the time that the output will remain at a specific step. Dwell times can be programmed
from 0.01 through 3600 seconds with the resolution of 1 millisecond.

Seems like the minimum dwell time is 10 ms. The slew rates are much slower though. It does not look like the supply has a current sink at the output to enable faster ramp-down times - it needs 150 ms to ramp down without load, and 45 ms with full load. 20 - 50 ms for ramp-up, depending on the load. Probably way too slow for transient simulation.
I suppose the digital I/Os are faster and could be abused fro driving a FET via a TLP591B or similar... I think they could also be used to actuate a polarity reversal relay or similar hacks for special applications,eg. simulating a 2-quadrant supply :)

[edit: clarified and added data from the spec sheet]
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 07:14:06 am by Krampmeier »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2017, 08:29:52 am »
Thanks, the only other thing I saw was the command response time, but it wasn't clear if that was only for commands received over a particular interface or the internal programming as well.

Upon finding the slew rates, I immediately questioned the implied resolution of the dwell time. I guess the supply doesn't have a down programmer since slew down is really slow when not fully loaded. However, the slew isn't necessarily a bad thing if you want the voltage to change smoothly between steps and don't need really short dwell times.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2017, 12:55:47 pm »
Thanks, the only other thing I saw was the command response time, but it wasn't clear if that was only for commands received over a particular interface or the internal programming as well.

Upon finding the slew rates, I immediately questioned the implied resolution of the dwell time. I guess the supply doesn't have a down programmer since slew down is really slow when not fully loaded. However, the slew isn't necessarily a bad thing if you want the voltage to change smoothly between steps and don't need really short dwell times.
I already played a bit with this power supply and also did some tests on the switch on/switch off behaviour. I wrote a short review:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/e36300-series-programmable-dc-power-supplies-(e36311a-e36312a-e36313a)/msg1259142/#msg1259142

I'm pretty sure this power supply has some kind of current sink (down programmer) to discharge the output capacitors. I don't think I have a HP/Agilent power supply without it and I suspect Keysight continues this 'tradition'.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 12:58:45 pm by nctnico »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2017, 03:51:25 pm »
OK, so 100-150ms is how long it takes with a down programmer. If anyone tries out the output sequencing on their newly won power supply, it'd be great to see what it can do stepping up and down voltages.
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Offline adamgreig

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Re: Power Supply Contest! Free E36312A
« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2017, 04:42:27 pm »
Happy to oblige!

This is an unloaded output of ch1 into high impedance scope input. The smallest programming step on the list mode is 10ms, which is about as good as you can get by programming remotely, but perhaps you could step faster with a digital IO driving the list. Each test is the psu list first, then scope captures.

You can see these two chunky 200R on ch1 (which has 470u output capacitance on the front panel, and maybe a bit more elsewhere), while ch2/ch3 have just one 200R and 100u output capacitance. More or less matches up with the discharge times.
 
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