Author Topic: Suggestion on future contest rule change  (Read 10519 times)

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Offline AG6QR

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Suggestion on future contest rule change
« on: October 07, 2013, 11:26:46 pm »
I noticed that, after the most recent contest was announced, there has been a minor flood of relatively meaningless posts.  The cynic in me believes that someone created a user id and tried to make posts in order to reach the magic "five posts" count to immediately enter the contest.  It's just too much of a coincidence when I look at one user's posting history of five quick thoughtless posts followed by a contest entry.

I am confident that, as the wise judging panel carefully reviews the posts to see if they meet the stated criteria of being useful, such an attempt to subvert the spirit of the contest rules would not pass muster.  But even though I think the strategy won't work to help win the contest, it's still annoying for the clutter it produces on the boards.

Here's a gentle suggestion:  In order to reduce future clutter, perhaps the next contest should make a minor clarification to the rules, changing it to something like, "You must have made five useful posts prior to the announcement date of the contest".

I know my suggestion isn't perfect.  It would not necessarily be bad if a contest motivates someone to post five genuinely useful contributions after the contest starts.  What is bad is when someone reads the rules and somehow believes the "five posts" criteria can be met by quickly throwing out five thoughtless context-free one-line posts that don't contribute much except clutter.  Maybe Dave, in his no-nonsense style, can make the point clear via some alternate rephrasing of the rules.

Of course, Dave gets to make the rules, and I appreciate his generosity however he wants to run any contests.
 

Offline kizzap

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 01:13:09 am »
The problem with your idea is that the contests are driven to bring more people to the forum, plain and simple. What you suggest is not a traffic generator but more a reward for people who are already supporting Dave.

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Online xrunner

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 01:19:46 am »
The problem with requiring 5 "quality" posts is clear: Only a human being can make that determination. If he gets hundreds of new members trying to make "quality" posts, every single new member trying to get into the contest will have to have their posts examined by a human being for "quality".

I don't know about anyone else here, but trying to look at hundreds of new member's posts for "quality" ain't exactly my idea of a good time.  :--
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Offline walshms

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 01:34:19 am »
+1.  Can't possibly do that, there aren't enough hours in a day.

At some point, Dave will need help.  When he does, he'll ask for it.
 

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 01:34:39 am »
Dave will just pick a winner at random, and only then check the number of posts. That's how he did it the last time. If the first 'winner' fails the test, then he can just pick another one. It sucks that the forum is being flooded with posts of questionable value in the mean time, though.
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 01:36:44 am »

I don't know about anyone else here, but trying to look at hundreds of new member's posts for "quality" ain't exactly my idea of a good time.  :--

It's what moderators live for!  :)
 

Online xrunner

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 01:42:25 am »
Dave will just pick a winner at random, and only then check the number of posts. That's how he did it the last time. If the first 'winner' fails the test, then he can just pick another one. It sucks that the forum is being flooded with posts of questionable value in the mean time, though.

As you indicated, the flaw is that all the other new members wanting in on the contest are flooding the forum with trivial posts. Only one can win, yet many of the rest post useless threads.

If you want new members, and want to offer a reward such as entering a contest, then just let people join and enter. Just let the chips fall where they may. If they like the forum they will contribute. If not, they won't, even if they win a contest.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 01:45:43 am »
Dave will just pick a winner at random, and only then check the number of posts. That's how he did it the last time.

Yes, only need to check the winners.
Fact is there has been relatively little flooding the forum with crap posts in the scheme of things.
It only stands out because it's more than usual and people are looking for it.

The problem is, as always, I can't please everyone.
I've got people complaining that I'm not rewarding the loyal youtube viewers, or podcast viewers, or blog viewers and if I do that I'll get complaints I'm not rewarding the loyal forum users etc
Then I should be having a Supporters only contest etc.
 

Offline GeorgeHahn

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 01:46:20 am »
As someone who's been thinking about coming here for a while and finally did due to the contest, I agree with this.

There's an easy (perhaps slightly unethical?) solution: don't talk about the 5 post minimum. The contest is enough to get people to sign up, you can judge them after that if their name is drawn. If they come here and never post? Well, that's 5 spam posts nobody ever had to deal with. Everyone saves time!
 

Offline AG6QR

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 02:48:23 am »
Yes, only need to check the winners.
Fact is there has been relatively little flooding the forum with crap posts in the scheme of things.
It only stands out because it's more than usual and people are looking for it.

The problem is, as always, I can't please everyone.

I agree with all those points, especially the last one.

Though, in the grand scheme of things, realize that you're pleasing quite a lot of people.  Even considering those who would prefer that a minor thing or two be slightly changed.  You're only hearing their suggestions because they like what's going on here enough to stick around and make suggestions.
 

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 02:57:22 am »
Fact is there has been relatively little flooding the forum with crap posts in the scheme of things.
It only stands out because it's more than usual and people are looking for it.
My impression is that people are scouring the forum looking for threads they can contribute to. Much more than usually, when people just skim the posts. This leads to people digging up old threads without having something important to add, replying without reading the thread or even without reading the topic title. I don't think this behavior is common if there's no contest, since there's no strong incentive to want to post. People will just refrain from posting and come back later. The vague deadline for the contest basically forces people to produce five posts as fast as possible. I admit that I don't have any quantitative data to back this up.

The problem is, as always, I can't please everyone.
I've got people complaining that I'm not rewarding the loyal youtube viewers, or podcast viewers, or blog viewers and if I do that I'll get complaints I'm not rewarding the loyal forum users etc
Then I should be having a Supporters only contest etc.
The who you should reward debate will never end, but you should focus on what's good for the forum community. At least in my opinion reading the forum is significantly less pleasant when contests are going on due to the lower signal to noise ratio. This pain may be worth it if a contest produces enough members that keep posting. If people just register for the contest and don't come back until the next context then you should change the rules for the next contest. I think you've done at least two of these contests before, so with a little scripting (find members with less than 10 posts at the time they posted in the contest thread and figure out how many have more than 25 posts now) you should be able to get this information.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2013, 04:56:25 am »
This leads to people

digging up old threads without having something important to add,

replying without reading the thread

 or even without reading the topic title
:-DD

and worst .. cursing Dave of the 5 posts rule as to add post count
He realized his mistake, but its too late cause me and other member already quoted his deleted post  >:D

My impression as well, and I think this time, the junk posts like above are a lot more and more intensified than previous contest.  :palm:
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 05:00:28 am by BravoV »
 

Offline magnus0re

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2013, 10:19:33 am »
I am one of those who signed up because of the recent contest. I've been lurking around a lot, but never signed up. So this is my sixth post.
Personally, I think that I have done a decent job of contributing to the forum in my 5 previous posts. And I try not to create junk posts.

I think the goal of the contest rule is twofold: to make more people post and to get new forum contributors.
If so, it has succeeded, hands down.

The forum SNR is horrible sometimes. I believe that it can be much better with a different layout, denying people a chance to win the lottery shouldn't be used as a reason to clean up the forum. As for now I think there is too few subforums. And I've yet to see a sticky (or sub) collecting good posts.

my two cents
 

Offline stempile

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2013, 04:35:45 pm »
I was lurking around too, had created an account a few months back.  I had plans to post, just never had.  I have been active on several other forums.  The challenge now is that there are so many great communities, how do you decided where to add content and where to consume content?

Also I have a blog on life support because I update to forums.  Sometimes I wonder if I should write the blog first, then CC the content info forums?  Google would like surface that pretty quickly.  Is there value in doing that? Perhaps.  Oh and articles in publications - when to submit there vs leaving it in forums?

Good thing, we have lots of choices!  Bad thing, we have lots of choices...

The contest was a motivation for me to start posting, hope I pass the quality litmus test.
 

Offline smoothtalker

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2013, 04:39:20 pm »
While "quality post" being a criteria is reasonable. the definition of quality post is subjective.

I guess a lot of people are following dave on the youtube channel but have never signed up a forum account. After seeing the contest video they are very keen to participate. I admit i'm one of them.

we should understand although it's not very fair if they simply join and spam post, but they are still genuine supporters of dave. It's a dilemma
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 06:12:24 pm »
While "quality post" being a criteria is reasonable. the definition of quality post is subjective.

I guess a lot of people are following dave on the youtube channel but have never signed up a forum account. After seeing the contest video they are very keen to participate. I admit i'm one of them.

we should understand although it's not very fair if they simply join and spam post, but they are still genuine supporters of dave. It's a dilemma

Seeing you, yes, you digging up a nine month old, long dead thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/international-contest/msg305729/#msg305729 just to post some junk, you should better not talk about quality posts.
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Offline TinkeringSteve

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2013, 08:36:17 pm »
The problem with requiring 5 "quality" posts is clear: Only a human being can make that determination. If he gets hundreds of new members trying to make "quality" posts, every single new member trying to get into the contest will have to have their posts examined by a human being for "quality".

I don't know about anyone else here, but trying to look at hundreds of new member's posts for "quality" ain't exactly my idea of a good time.  :--

If he does the following, the work load is much reduced, especially because of the randomness in picking over the whole set, making it very unlikely having to check many frauds, assuming that there will be a lot less frauds than honest posters:
Code: [Select]
while NOT clearWinnerFound
    pw = pick_potential_winner_by_random( setOfAllPosts );
    if eligible( pw ) clearWinnerFound = true;
 

Offline smoothtalker

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2013, 08:44:33 pm »
While "quality post" being a criteria is reasonable. the definition of quality post is subjective.

I guess a lot of people are following dave on the youtube channel but have never signed up a forum account. After seeing the contest video they are very keen to participate. I admit i'm one of them.

we should understand although it's not very fair if they simply join and spam post, but they are still genuine supporters of dave. It's a dilemma

Seeing you, yes, you digging up a nine month old, long dead thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/international-contest/msg305729/#msg305729 just to post some junk, you should better not talk about quality posts.

LoL What bullshit are you saying? 9 months!? You dreaming? that thread was just below this. What I did was simply exploring the forum and when i saw that i posted my thoughts. Who cares about the dates, I was not even aware of it.

Everyone has to start somewhere. If EEV forum is full of people like you I will stay away and join other forums. You should really go pick on those cheapskates trying to win contest.

Don't be jealous. I can understand your ego, old guards feeling threatened by newbie.  :-DD
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 08:58:50 pm by smoothtalker »
 

Offline tsmith35

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2013, 10:17:45 pm »
Here's a gentle suggestion:  In order to reduce future clutter, perhaps the next contest should make a minor clarification to the rules, changing it to something like, "You must have made five useful posts prior to the announcement date of the contest".

Actually, that's exactly the technique that a few forums I frequent handle contests. You have to have your posts in *before* the contest starts. This simple rule avoids the "hey, so-and-so is really cool" kinds of posts used for building up post count.
 

Offline Mr Smiley

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2013, 10:50:24 pm »
Hi all,

I said similar here, post #8

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-555-timer-schematics-for-38khz/msg304427/#msg304427

Quote
"
I noticed that there was a lot of new low count posts trying to get past the required minimum regarding the competition. Well there are, but assumed people were just joining to get into the comp.

Then i thought I’d check something  :-/O

This guy registered on 1st May according to his profile, so he has been around and not just registered.

Perhaps Dave should put a registered with minimum positive posts before competition was announced clause.  :-//

 :)
"

but was shot down by  Wytnucls with;

Quote
"
What for? The idea behind the competition is to bring in new members, not to reward long term members.
"
 

  :(

 :)
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Offline tsmith35

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2013, 11:00:29 pm »
Maybe they can keep everyone happy...

Set up a new board called "My 5 posts" and let the new folks go to town. It will remove the mental anguish that each poster goes through while they're trying to figure out how to come up with something that doesn't look like a junk post, and any posts that are made on the new board can be ignored as being purely junk. :)

Kills 2 birds with one stone (not that anyone would want to) by getting new members to join and get used to posting without any junk.
 

Offline Mr Smiley

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2013, 11:08:00 pm »
Some of these new posters ARE posting positive questions and answers and a lot of them registered way before the comp was announced; like yourself  :-+

If we stuck you into a 'don't read this thread cos it's all rubbish' and you posted a positive question/answer would you be happy  :--

And if you posted your first post today and you were stuck into a 'this is a crap thread' would you come back tomorrow?

 :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 11:10:51 pm by Mr Smiley »
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Offline tsmith35

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2013, 11:17:02 pm »
:)
Just kidding around a bit... :) seemed like a way to make everyone happy.
 

Offline Napalm2002

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Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2013, 01:26:09 am »
How about a thank you Dave. And thanks for opening my eyes to this really cool and interesting blog. And if I win I will
Be thankful, no matter what!


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Offline Greyersting

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2013, 02:56:46 am »
I joined after seeing the contest video but mainly because I didn't know there was a forum until then.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2013, 04:57:23 am »
LoL What bullshit are you saying?

Everyone who can read can see that you responded to a message from "ChrisGreece52 on 2013-01-15, 22:13:57".

And for your other posts, here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/question-on-electricity/msg306054/#msg306054 you started to go completely bonkers, posting the same junk three times in a row.

Quote
9 months!?

Yep. We have October, that posting from ChrisGreece52 was from January. You didn't bother to read the tread. You didn't bother to read the date. You were just eager to do another shit in the woods to get to your minimum posting number.

And then you have the galls to come here and tell us something about "quality postings".

Quote
Who cares about the dates, I was not even aware of it.

See, that is my point. You weren't aware of it, because you didn't care. You just wanted to do yet another dump. And you want to lecture us about quality postings?

Quote
Everyone has to start somewhere. If EEV forum is full of people like you I will stay awa and join other forums.

I won't miss you. Good by, and don't let the door hit you on your way out. But of course I know you won't leave before the end of the contest. In the meantime, may I suggest you join my fan club, run by Private Fluffer?

Quote
You should really go pick on those cheapskates trying to win contest.

You mean people like you?

Quote
Don't be jealous. I can understand your ego, old guards feeling threatened by newbie.  :-DD
Wanker. I don't even have subscribe to the contest, I am not taking part. I am interested in having a readable forum where clueless people don't set the standard.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:02:24 am by Bored@Work »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2013, 11:49:53 am »
I joined after seeing the contest video but mainly because I didn't know there was a forum until then.

I only mention it at the end of almost every video, and link to it in every video  ;D
 

Offline flolic

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2013, 12:37:11 pm »
B@W - one of the reasons that I love this forum   >:D
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2013, 12:42:44 pm »
Interesting stat maybe:
To date, about half the contestants have 20 posts or less on the site. (450 out of a total of 940)
 

Offline sync

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2013, 12:44:44 pm »
I think the 5 posts rule doesn't work well. Maybe just drop it. Then new users can entry the contest without been forced to write (meaningless) posts. If they have something to contribute they will do it anyway.
 

Offline Mr Smiley

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2013, 04:22:21 pm »
Interesting stat maybe:
To date, about half the contestants have 20 posts or less on the site. (450 out of a total of 940)

You seem to have a problem with people with low post counts  :rant:

I take it, that if you were running the comp you would specify a minimum of 710 posts to enter; now i wonder where i got that number from  :-//

And anybody with less than that magic number ( 710 ) is meaningless and unwanted within this forum. And heaven forbid dare they attempt to join any of Dave's  competitions  :box:

Dave, we have a winner,,,,, it's,,,,,,,, Wytnucls, he's the only one here worthy of such a prize ( well all of them actually )

 :)
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Offline Wytnucls

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2013, 05:40:39 pm »
Of course I have a problem with people who have a low post count, especially 141 for some reason.
I know I will win the competition as I have also entered uncle Vernon and his dog. Spotty had some trouble with the five meaningful posts, but Einstein, our cat, provided the necessary help.
If it was up to me, I would exclude anybody who is not from the colonies...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:53:54 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline Yago

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2013, 09:55:39 pm »
I did post to qualify for the contest , but I did try to make relevant posts .
The thing that I feel is the differential for my perspective is that I am a relatively old fart with a few decades as an EE , and have been a member (and avid reader) for a while before the contest .

Summing up and if not mentioned before , maybe the qualification could be minimum of six months membership prior to the contest .

Just a thought .
 

Offline walshms

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2013, 10:23:25 pm »
Of course I have a problem with people who have a low post count, especially 141 for some reason.

Well... okay, so the question becomes one of understanding what you want as a standard.  Quantity doesn't equal quality; I'm sure that everyone would agree with that.  Time has the same problem... you could be around for a couple of years, but not necessarily be very "vocal" or post a lot.  But what constitutes quality?

Is it participation?  Is it having a good idea?  Is it helping others?  What about just having a point of view that may or may not influence others?  It it presenting facts, or presenting opinion? 

On time, do you have to have registered before the contest?  How long before? 

If the purpose of the contests is to increase interest in the forum (and presumably, increase participation as well) then it seems to be accomplishing that.  Will everyone who comes along meet your criteria for quality?  Of course not -- but whether they do or not, the purpose is satisfied.

I don't think Dave really wanted to create an "old boys club" or private forum, though he does have the supporters' forum and that would be just that -- a private forum.  If you want a lower signal to noise ratio, that would be the place for it.

George Carlin did a bit on a particular priest that wrote a letter to the FCC about something he heard on the radio that he didn't like.  His take: there's two knobs on the radio; you can chance the station, or turn it off, but limiting speech because you didn't like what you heard (or in this case, saw) isn't appropriate. 

Before you get annoyed -- I'm not at all suggesting that you're trying to limit speech here.  What I am suggesting is that you could take a different point of view, which would be to work to raise the quality of the posts by leading by example.  It's easy to complain -- it can be harder to do something about it, but it's also a lot more satisfying.

If everyone that's finding themselves annoyed by the new members were to simply respond only to those things that interested them, and ignore those things that didn't, the forum would naturally clean itself up over time.  People do tend to follow examples; just set a good one, and stick to it, and the end result will be positive.  There will be something for everyone, and nearly everyone will benefit from it.

Just my humble opinion.  Your mileage may vary.  No warranty is expressed, or implied.  ;)
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2013, 10:26:48 pm »
the supporters' forum ... lower signal to noise ratio, that would be the place for it.

Lower SNR.. an apt error :-DD
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Offline walshms

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2013, 10:29:29 pm »
Good catch.  I won't correct it either -- I should have said "higher signal to noise ratio", of course.

Lower the noise was what I was thinking, and my brain apparently twisted it in the typing. ;)  But, I think it's fair to say that the point is valid, yes?
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2013, 10:32:24 pm »
But, I think it's fair to say that the point is valid, yes?

If you were talking to someone else... but unless I missed something, I don't think Wytnucls said anything particularly unreasonable... I think you overreacted to his first comment, and I'm pretty sure the second was tongue-in-cheek...
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Offline walshms

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2013, 10:34:02 pm »
I wasn't accusing anyone of anything.  I was only offering a point of view; what prompted it was the comment about "141 posts."  Taken out of context?  Maybe... but I'm really only trying to provoke some thought here.

The problem, I suggest, isn't as simple as some would like.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2013, 10:38:00 pm »
Well, I think it was rather an obvious joke... Like I said, I think you have a valid point, but it's kind of preaching to the choir, most of us agree with you I think.
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Offline walshms

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2013, 10:44:07 pm »
I think I missed the joke... maybe because there wasn't a wink or anything obvious about it for me... but I apologize if I've upset anyone, especially Wytnucls.  No intent there.

I certainly don't want to be seen as preaching either... but hopefully the thoughts might benefit someone.  Either that, or give them a nicely needed rest.   :=\
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2013, 10:48:00 pm »
Fact is there has been relatively little flooding the forum with crap posts in the scheme of things.
It only stands out because it's more than usual and people are looking for it.

As for my actual thoughts on this... here they are. We haven't exactly been inundated with people shitting out filler posts so they can enter the contest. Perhaps a couple, but really, it's been minimal. Anyone annoyed by it should probably consider being less easily annoyed and/or pissing off >:D
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Offline walshms

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2013, 10:58:44 pm »
Now that's what I was looking for... I didn't think there was really that big a change, but I wanted to see if anyone else saw that.  I'm seeing about the same quality of things I did the day I joined the forum -- admittedly, not that long ago, but the reason I registered was because of a particular thread that I wanted to comment on.  I'd been reading for a while before that.

That was before the contest announcement, BTW. ;)
 

Offline liquibyte

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2013, 11:02:32 pm »
Why can't everyone just enjoy the fact that Dave is nice enough to have a contest and stop bitching about post counts.  I am and have been a member of many, many forums over the years and one thing I always see is trolling and bitching.  Stop it, jeez.

There's good info here and that should be enough of a reward.

(Disclaimer: I entered this last one.  Congrats to whomever wins.  Thanks for the site Dave.)
 

Offline Mr Smiley

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2013, 01:52:28 am »
The number 141 was the number of posts i had made when i commented on Wytnucls 710 posts  :-DD

Perhaps Dave has a secret evil streak, and is pissing himself laughing at all this  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD

Go on Dave, admit it, your enjoying every argumentative post  :-+

 :)
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2013, 04:59:53 am »
Before you get annoyed -- I'm not at all suggesting that you're trying to limit speech here.  What I am suggesting is that you could take a different point of view, which would be to work to raise the quality of the posts by leading by example.  It's easy to complain -- it can be harder to do something about it, but it's also a lot more satisfying.

If everyone that's finding themselves annoyed by the new members were to simply respond only to those things that interested them, and ignore those things that didn't, the forum would naturally clean itself up over time.  People do tend to follow examples; just set a good one, and stick to it, and the end result will be positive.  There will be something for everyone, and nearly everyone will benefit from it.

That is how I try to run the forum.
It is, as best as probably can be I think, a "self-regulating" lead by example forum.
Moderators (Simon, Geoff, and me) generally don't moderate anything unless there is a report. Then we act on that report. First moderator on the scene makes a call whether to ignore the complaint as a storm-in-a-teacup, delete or edit the offending post(s), give a little "hey, settle down" post, or ban the user.
When I first formed the forum, I was (and still am) a huge fan of unmoderated free speech, and personally I like a totally free-for-all forum, "you can't handle it, leave" kind of approach. But I heave learned that such forums do ultimately degenerate into chaos, and the bullies, trolls, and plain idiots run riot, and the forum gets less popular and not more popular as a result. So to run a good forum you really do have to compromise, and there are really two ways to do: 1) total heavy handed moderation, which sucks arse. I think I'd rather have no forum than that. Or 2) the lead-by-example steer the ship kind we have here.
I think it generally works well.
 

Offline Fsck

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2013, 10:22:11 am »
I joined after seeing the contest video but mainly because I didn't know there was a forum until then.

I only mention it at the end of almost every video, and link to it in every video  ;D

There's videos!?

yeah, like some of the others on the forums. I found the forums before I found the videos.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2013, 10:47:54 am »
yeah, like some of the others on the forums. I found the forums before I found the videos.

I know there are many forum members who don't watch the videos at all, which isn't surprising. The forum stands on it's own as one of the leading electronics forum out there.
 

Offline casper.bang

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2013, 11:27:33 am »
Moderators (Simon, Geoff, and me) generally don't moderate anything unless there is a report. Then we act on that report. First moderator on the scene makes a call whether to ignore the complaint as a storm-in-a-teacup, delete or edit the offending post(s), give a little "hey, settle down" post, or ban the user.

There's another category too though, which I seem to have hit more often than any other; that of "non topic" which results in a locked thread. I live by "Dare to question status quo" and if there is something that truly annoys me, it's other people telling me what I can or can't debate in life!

In general, engineers/developers tend to speak right off the bat and be wonderfully politically incorrect, that's how we get stuff done, unlike politicians who excel at dancing around a topic saying nothing. As long as there are no personal attacks and the tone is civil, I really wish threads would be allowed to continue, regardless whether they digress from some arbitrary technical topic.  *shrug*
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:31:05 am by casper.bang »
 

Offline Yago

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2013, 01:16:33 pm »
I have seen many a forum grow popular , reach a critical mass and implode in a ball of trolling mouthy tossers .

Some of the concerns posted in this thread seem to be about defending this forum from such an event rather than the competition .
I would definitely agree with this defense , as I feel this place is more than worthy of such loyalty .
All IMHO and right or wrong the spirit is admirable .

Long live EEV , may the wisdom triumph :D

You can always save up for a nice meter , it won't break your heart not being included in a little competition .
 

Offline kphannan

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2013, 02:23:42 pm »
I've been more a lurker for a couple years, afraid to post and getting flamed.  Ah, so what even in a flame there may be a gem.  I'm an EE by schooling, but mostly software professionally.  Got to exercise the EE part of my brain more, after all I did design / build a controller for a sample changer on an x-ray defractometer, way back in the early 80's.
 

Offline os40la

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2013, 02:49:11 pm »
Wouldn't it be funny if Dave disqualifies the people that complain about the rules.  :-DD

Dave, thank you for having a contest and giving us a chance to win some nice test equipment. Please Don't count this post as 1 of my 5 required posts.  :-+
"No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express"
 

Offline delmadord

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2013, 12:02:31 am »
I did also register and made 5 posts with 0 added value, just because of contest. I agree that there are people that contributed far more to the forum and deserve to win far more than me, but rules are as they are, and If Dave decides to disqualify me for not having 5 quality posts, then he'd be right.

Nevertheless, I love the videos, now episode #336 and listening to the AmpHour too. I knew about the forum since I know about the videos, but I wasn't that interested in participating. I quite frankly believe that Dave is doing this contest, among other reasons, to motivate lurkers like me to contribute. If it is really that, then, it is probably working. I joined the forum and starting to like it  :-+
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2013, 04:01:42 am »
There's another category too though, which I seem to have hit more often than any other; that of "non topic" which results in a locked thread. I live by "Dare to question status quo" and if there is something that truly annoys me, it's other people telling me what I can or can't debate in life!

You can debate anything you like, just not on an electronics forum. There are countless forums to debate any subject you desire, it's better to use those than pollute an electronics forum with off-topic stuff.
Most people use the "show unread posts" button to view new messages, and if an off-topic free-for-all orgy is allowed, then the electronics gets drowned out in a list like that. No one wants that.

Quote
In general, engineers/developers tend to speak right off the bat and be wonderfully politically incorrect, that's how we get stuff done, unlike politicians who excel at dancing around a topic saying nothing. As long as there are no personal attacks and the tone is civil, I really wish threads would be allowed to continue, regardless whether they digress from some arbitrary technical topic.  *shrug*

So do I.
But when you run a forum like this you begin to understand that the majority do not want that, they come here for the electronics.
Really off-topic stuff that gets out of hand has zero upside for the forum, and all downside, that is why it is being clamped down on.
I appreciate that it's community and people like to occasionally discuss off-topic stuff with their friends they know and like on the forum, that is why some off-topic stuff is allowed provided it doesn't get out of hand. I do not want the Top 10 list of topic threads on the board to to be about religion or politics.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 04:04:58 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline tsmith35

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2013, 04:38:05 am »
I do not want the Top 10 list of topic threads on the board to to be about religion or politics.
Compiler preference discussions can make religion or politics seem mild. ;D
 

Offline jmcdonald

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2013, 01:03:53 pm »
quote author=EEVblog link=topic=21503.msg305093#msg305093 date=1381196743]
Dave will just pick a winner at random, and only then check the number of posts. That's how he did it the last time.

Yes, only need to check the winners.
Fact is there has been relatively little flooding the forum with crap posts in the scheme of things.
It only stands out because it's more than usual and people are looking for it.

The problem is, as always, I can't please everyone.
I've got people complaining that I'm not rewarding the loyal youtube viewers, or podcast viewers, or blog viewers and if I do that I'll get complaints I'm not rewarding the loyal forum users etc
Then I should be having a Supporters only contest etc.
[/quote]


Viewing your videos is reward enuf. The first video I watched was the $100 multimeter shoot out part 1 (because I own the extec/cem rebadged digitec multimeter) thought I would not watch the whole thing as it went for 50mins+ . I watched the whole video my wife watched part two with me :-+ now I check for new videos daily.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2013, 10:15:24 pm »
... Fact is there has been relatively little flooding the forum with crap posts in the scheme of things.
It only stands out because it's more than usual and people are looking for it.
...
I think I have seen more crap posts with complaints about crap posts than actual crap posts.
 

Offline jh15

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2013, 03:15:20 am »
March 16 is George Simon Ohm's birthday.
tek 575 curve tracer top shape, 535 top shape, 465. 545 hickok clone, Telsa Model S,  Ohio Scientific c24P single board computer, many c-64 from my club days, Giant electric bicycle, Rigol stuff, Heathkit AR-15 receivers 2, Heathkit et 3400a trainer and interface,
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2013, 06:42:06 am »
 

Online xrunner

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2013, 10:15:46 am »
March 16 is George Simon Ohm's birthday.

Didn't you know he was very resistant to anyone celebrating his birthday?
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Online Dave

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2013, 03:35:22 pm »
March 16 is George Simon Ohm's birthday.
He was Georg, not George. He was German and so was his name.
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Offline tubos

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2013, 10:06:13 pm »
Good point but as someone stated the contests should also attract new users
that are willing to contribute.
 

Offline npnlamp

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2013, 09:38:20 am »
Hi dave! I don't know if should post here, but. You really won't mark prize as gift? Why? Because it's actually is :D. Also if a man rally can't afford an good multimeter, and really needs it, then I think he can't afford one with 60% price off (yup, 30% taxes :( ).
 

Offline jh15

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2013, 04:11:39 am »
FYI "March 16 is George (-e)  Simon Ohm's birthday." I thought I was posting in the qualification forum, not here.

I will now go down and lie down under the  shady poled Wheatstone bridge and see If I can short circuit my girl's shunt.
tek 575 curve tracer top shape, 535 top shape, 465. 545 hickok clone, Telsa Model S,  Ohio Scientific c24P single board computer, many c-64 from my club days, Giant electric bicycle, Rigol stuff, Heathkit AR-15 receivers 2, Heathkit et 3400a trainer and interface,
 

Offline Caca

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2013, 08:44:36 am »
Well since Dave said the posts have to have some value us "new spammers" try to make our posts count (at least I try to) so there's obviously more whining from people who had been here before as we are lowering their chances to win.
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2013, 11:29:25 am »
so there's obviously more whining from people who had been here before as we are lowering their chances to win.
I don't think that's the reason... Lately there has been a big drop in interesting technical posts (at least from my perspective) and a rather large drop in posts from the more learned members of this forum. I for one am patiently waiting for this contest to be over so that things can get back to normal.

Having said that, if there are any new members reading this who are genuinely interested in electronics, please don't judge the forum in it's current state. Its normally a wealth of interesting information with some very knowledgeable people to steer you in the right direction
 

Offline digsys

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2013, 12:13:29 pm »
Quote from: AlfBaz
  I for one am patiently waiting for this contest to be over so that things can get back to normal. 
Agreed with all you say ! I just want to get back to reading the nerd bitch fights :-)
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2013, 01:21:50 pm »
I just want to get back to reading the nerd bitch fights :-)
:-DD  :-DD
 

Online GreyWoolfe

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2013, 03:03:09 am »
I am trying to get back to relearning a little hobby electronics.  I ran across the EEVBlog purely by chance.  I started watching some of the videos and figured I would join up to get questions answered, get pointed in right directions and get help if needed like on getting my bargain $40 USD TEK 2235 scope working again.  I didn't join for the contest.  Yes, I did join on Oct 6th, but, as I said, I joined to start learning again.  Thanks to this site, I have already bookmarked Gerry Sweeney and Allen, W2AEW's YouTube links and have built an octopus circuit tester to go with my Tek 2235.  Don't lump all of us in the same free contest boat ride.  I am not going anywhere.  I plan to keep reading posts on topics that interest me and ask for help or ask question as the situation arises.  So, yes, I did register for the contest with a proviso in my post that I hope my posts have qualified me.  If it doesn't qualify me, all well and good.  I am still going to continue to enjoy the site.

Tom
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Suggestion on future contest rule change
« Reply #68 on: October 20, 2013, 06:07:30 am »
Good Tom, keep coming back. The popcorn here is pretty good and as a bonus is calorie free.
 


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