Poll

Should Dave feature/endorse Carlos A. on the EEVBlog youtube channel?

Yes
34 (54.8%)
No
28 (45.2%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Voting closed: April 16, 2016, 02:03:54 am

Author Topic: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest  (Read 10234 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2016, 12:39:53 am »
David K  +577
Nilu J.  +213
Carlos A.  +139
Whatever David K. is doing to get votes clearly has some social media reach. At this rate of acceleration, the sky is getting darker.

Unless David K and Nilu J are celebrities or have large (hundreds of thsoudands of) followings, I can't see how they can possibly be legitimately getting these votes, it's just not possible.
Big companies like Keysight know this. They might have a mailing list with 100,000 emails on it, but the amount of engagement they'll get with an email blast for example is bugger-all, let alone actionable events like I mentioned before.
I've enetered vote based contests before and won, but even with my large audience, the number of people who actually vote is small.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 12:41:58 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Fohdeesha

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2016, 02:58:10 am »
Dave you hit the nail on the head. After the keysight manager posted in the other thread that they looked and didn't find any evidence of vote purchasing I wanted to post the below info but decided not to as I didn't want to come off cynical or like I was slinging mud at other candidates. I have zero stake in the contest and who wins it, I know Carlos through the film industry but it's not like I'll get to borrow the scope if he wins or something  :-DD I've just dealt with this exact situation before on another site, and through my own company experiencing the other side of it (running one, and seeing first hand how much illegitimate activity even a $100 prize attracts)

The latest graph is a pretty big giveaway and I've seen the pattern before. It's not even the amount of votes that's suspicious, it's the bursts then brick walls, I've seen it before in other contests. "large legitimate social media campaigns" don't result in a 60 second transition from a thousand votes to literally 0 votes for four hours. Statistically improbable actually, if there really were hundreds of thousands of people being reached (which is what you'd need to get 1000 or so actual engagements in 12 hours), votes would trickle off, it wouldn't climb and climb then hit a brick wall and go to zero engagements like the internet disappeared. Note that this has happened twice for the third candidate now. Vote surge, then plateau of zero votes for quite a long period. You can see after people started to question his votes they completely stopped and plateaued for all of today. I'm not sure how I can put this any clearer - Nilu's and Carlos' growth is completely smooth and organic, because they have no control over when people click. There's no abrupt changes in their plot lines because it's impossible to rapidly stop votes when you've got thousands of links out there. The votes are going to happen. The third line? well.....yeah




I know keysight has said they looked into some individual profiles and didn't see any evidence of cheating, but what I don't think they realize is that they're not going to unless someone is using the cheaper foreign voting services (which I imagine are the profiles they *did* find). The decent services (like the ones I idiotically linked to in the other thread right before contestant #3 surged in votes which I have now removed) use *real US profiles that real people use normally everyday* originating from *legitimate united states IP addresses*, they just happen to make some extra money on the side voting in contests day to day for vote/click farmers, it's a great stay at home part time job. there's no reliable way to discern them from friends/family of the contestants, and the nearly perfect feedback and results posted to these sellers profiles are a testament to this.

This is all common knowledge in the online marketing world, just read some basic online contesting literature. it's impossible to run a contest online for a $100 prize without attracting hoards of cheaters, and Keysight is giving away something with 700 times that value - do you have any idea the length people will go to for that? Every expert opinion you'll find is that the only real way to verify votes as legitimate when using facebook is that they have had past engagement with your brand, which in this case would be something like the profile having liked Keysight in the past, posted about oscilloscopes in the past etc. Given that 99% of the legitimate votes in this case are from friends and family outside of the industry, that's a useless method.

Sorry for the grim view, I've just seen this ruin legitimate winners out of a prize on another site twice now, and it's depressing. All I can hope to do is keep voting legitimately for my favorite contestant and hope honesty prevails. None of this matters to keysight of course, contesting is a great form of online marketing regardless of who wins, every single one of the hundreds of twitter, facebook, etc shares the contestants make are a free keysight advertisement, and unlike most online advertisement that gets maybe 0.1% engagement, most contestants family and a lot of friends are actually clicking  :)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 03:20:02 am by Fohdeesha »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2016, 04:46:10 am »
When you think about it, a big online campaign may reach hundreds of people that might be semi interested enough to be inclined to throw in a vote in response to it.  Getting them to vote 3 times might be more of an ask ... and to continue to vote day after day, a near impossibility.  Should one try and repeat the exercise in an attempt to keep the voting going, it is going to come across as 'pestering'.  I can see such a tactic failing - and it could easily backfire.

A faithful crew of supporters who take the time out to vote regularly will maintain a steady increase and that's what Carlos has, and Nilu has something similar.


There's something about this race that has me thinking about The Tortoise and the Hare.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2016, 05:45:47 pm »
While I am not a social media super-star, I do have some very popular friends and family. My votes have been nearly a straight line from the beginning after spending about 60 hours campaigning from Saturday to Wednesday - ignoring all of my real work.
The engagement is almost exactly what Dave describes - VERY LOW. A very low number of the engagements actually act. Most of the actions only act once - many do not come back daily because they have lives to live and don't think about the Keysight voting. This is all normal and expected. It' show people work, especially in a crowded and noisy social world where there is a cause around every link.

When Dave tweeted to 27,000 followers that Carlos A was his favorite - there was no spike.

When Dave posted on the blog to check out the contest and Carlos A was his choice - there was no spike

When my (actual real) friend with 15k followers on is FB page posted several personally written appeals to vote for Carlos A - there was no spike or other discernible increase in votes

Many other socially prominent supporters of mine have blasted Twitter and Facebook relentlessly to at least 100k people now. - still no spike in votes, just a straight line

The EEVBlog thread I started has 8,400+ views  - no spike in votes

I made a sponsored ad on FB that has reached 3000 people - 30 engagements - ZERO clicks. That is right - ZERO clicks.

My sisters run a large cheerleading/dance competition that is about to start in the UK. They are going to make announcements to the kids and parents. Many thousands of them, will hear an appeal to vote for the brother of their leader. Will it result in a vote spike? Will they vote until the 15th? We shall see.

I am completely and totally perplexed that the fate of an exotic oscilloscope lies in the hands of a bunch of teen cheerleaders and their parents. I do not know any of them at all. I doubt any of them know what an oscilloscope is - yet their participation or non-participation will have a big  impact on this. There is enough people at this event that if 25% vote 3x for one day - it will close the gap. Only 1/4 of the people that will be addressed via microphone from a big stage all at once have to go to scopemonth.com and vote for Carlos A. and the gap will be closed.
The reality is that it probably will not happen - they will cheer for the underdog, and clap for the appeal that my sister makes and they will then carry on with the competition. That is how it works when they don't know me and have no skin in the game.

 :-BROKE

Imagine there was a house with no doors and has $70k worth of jewels inside. It was announced to the world that if you can steal the jewels without being caught, you keep the jewels. If you get caught, there are no consequences and you are free to go.  :palm:




« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 05:50:18 pm by rx8pilot »
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2016, 06:26:19 pm »
Carlos,

I wonder how many voters have looked at all the entries (close to zero?) and how many that vote for you have seen your entry (less than 50%?). To be honest I only watched the top 5, and I vote for you every day now because you seem a nice guy and I think you deserve the scope. On the other hand you make it sound like your business plan and the health of your family depends totally on winning this and that kept me from voting for the first days, it just doesn't sound right. Anyway, this whole voting thing is not about the entries anymore, but about social media skills, and it doesn't look good for you. You simply can't compete with a whole school voting every day. Does Keysight regret the way things are going? I guess publicity is publicity...

Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2016, 06:46:12 pm »
Carlos,

I wonder how many voters have looked at all the entries (close to zero?) and how many that vote for you have seen your entry (less than 50%?). To be honest I only watched the top 5, and I vote for you every day now because you seem a nice guy and I think you deserve the scope. On the other hand you make it sound like your business plan and the health of your family depends totally on winning this and that kept me from voting for the first days, it just doesn't sound right. Anyway, this whole voting thing is not about the entries anymore, but about social media skills, and it doesn't look good for you. You simply can't compete with a whole school voting every day. Does Keysight regret the way things are going? I guess publicity is publicity...

I would hazard a guess that only the tiniest percentage of voters have watched the videos. Only a tiny percentage even know what an oscilloscope is. Very sad that the fate of this instrument is in the hands of whatever random people click a button for whatever random reason.

The video appeal was trying to say that I have followed my dreams to design and manufacture electronics but just barely making that happen. All of my time and all of my money has gone into the effort that got me to where I am today. I don't have the option to buy or finance a scope of this caliber until I spend the next couple of years paying for what I have already leveraged. My business plan is not counting and the scope win at all - I will continue to slog through the daily small biz challenges if I don't win and that is that. The hope, however, is that winning this contest will allow me to skip a few rungs as I climb the success ladder. This scope will give me opportunities that I will otherwise have to wait years for. That was the goal of the video. It is exciting to dream of moving up in a giant leap. When moving up means a better life for my family as well - it is MUCH more exciting. There is definitely an emotional component to my video - this a something that will shift my business for the better. That directly impacts my family that is now dealing with the reality that my business had just recently reached a break-even position.

It is also devastating that the fate of this dream/opportunity is in that hands of people that have no idea at all what the videos even mean. I feel that if a panel of esteemed EE judges was formed to figure out the winner - I would have had a very good chance of winning. Presenting the use case for this specific scope was the directions for the videos. My use case is real, appropriate, and professionally motivated - so why is it that the competition is dominated by a student claiming to have a new invention (patented in 1918)? Like you said, it does not matter. The Nilu J entry could be about changing a tire on a car.
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Online edy

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2016, 08:03:02 pm »
I watched Carlos's video and have added my 3 votes today.

The one thing I don't like is Keysight asking me to log in using Facebook. I guess they need a way to ensure legitimate users and since most people don't have multiple Facebook accounts it is their way of reducing abuse of the voting system.

Also, the Facebook system lets them market and reach possibly more of your contacts. I'm not sure how they can leverage the Facebook login but I'm not a fan. Initially I thought I was voting but actually was not (on a Mozilla browser the Facebook login popup gets suppressed and it goes back to the front page automatically)..... So you aren't really voting.

On Chrome it properly popped up the Facebook login, then once logged in it showed the Captcha... Then I voted and it incremented the vote count so I know it worked.

Either way, it would be cool if you win the scope, if you could somehow get it to Dave for a review and then he can send it back to you. I'm not sure if Dave did a review yet on the Keysight 6000 series. But overall this is creating publicity for Keysight. To be honest, if you have to worry about paying the taxes for this thing, it's got to cost more than most of the voters in this contest are willing to pay for a scope.... And if you have to ask how much it is, you probably can't afford it. I assume mostly corporations and institutions doing heavy work are buying this thing.... Not the target market that is actually getting exposed to it via the contest and through EEVBlog?

I'd rather see Keysight giving away a bunch of more affordable scopes to more people than riding it all on their flagship. I don't know their product portfolio or costs but if someone can post what these things cost normally and when you would need a 6 GHz scope, please let me know.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 08:05:39 pm by edy »
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2016, 08:23:21 pm »
Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it.

If I win, this will be a business tool and I have already worked out the potential tax challenge that will come with it. Fingers crossed.
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Offline mike1305

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2016, 10:19:00 pm »
Rooting for you dude. The EEVBlog brigade is doing good things for your vote count. Still a week left it's anyone's game. IIRC, my attention span in college was awful, maybe the students will taper off their activity. Especially over the weekend.  :beer: (need an emoticon for that, Dave!)
 
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Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2016, 10:43:45 pm »
Hi All,

We are doing everything we can to manage and legitimize votes as best as we can  :scared:. At least with Facebook voting we can check voter's profiles.  Any sort of online voting is very, very difficult to regulate.

Please, please, please keep rallying around your preferred candidate.  I'm also working on some stuff behind the scenes.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2016, 10:44:16 pm »
I am still hoping, still a lot of time to turn the tide.

Thank you very much for voting! Spread the word if possible. A little plug from a relatively small number of people can change this race.

Sent from my horrible mobile....

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Offline ez24

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2016, 01:05:36 am »
Hi All,

  I'm also working on some stuff behind the scenes.

I hope it is a free scope (normal ones) for all blog members  :-DD  (One for Carlos if he loses ? )
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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2016, 01:31:33 am »
The hope, however, is that winning this contest will allow me to skip a few rungs as I climb the success ladder. This scope will give me opportunities that I will otherwise have to wait years for. That was the goal of the video. It is exciting to dream of moving up in a giant leap. When moving up means a better life for my family as well - it is MUCH more exciting.
I'm still wondering what kind of specific measurements you really need a $70k scope for. Sure better equipment enables to learn new things but there is so much second hand gear out there for little money which can also do the job.
Quote
The Nilu J entry could be about changing a tire on a car.
I fully agree. She has definitely put a bunch of vote monkeys to work!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2016, 01:36:34 am »
Hi All,

  I'm also working on some stuff behind the scenes.

I hope it is a free scope (normal ones) for all blog members  :-DD 
Dreamer... but I like the way you dream.   :-+


Quote
(One for Carlos if he loses ? )
That would be nice... but it would need to be a couple of notches up from 'normal ones'.
 

Offline DimitriP

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2016, 08:54:25 pm »
Quote
Total Members Voted: 50
I was on the fence on how this was going to go.

I figured worse case scenaria the post will get deleted , or  get PMs asking me to delete the post, get banned, or have a massive amount of people voting No

But Nooooooo.....I was wrong.  Dave, although he didn't feature Carlos on youtube (yet ;) there is barely any time for that, since its not over 'till it's over)  he did tat lease tweet to his thousands of followers.

Instead what I ended up with is fifty people , (as in 48,49,50 ) bothering to pick yes or no.

I have the feeling if the Poll was about this vs that scope or multimeter, there would have been hundreds of votes.
Very few retweets, and likes . Sometimes it's not enough to lead the horse to water, you have to push it in, and hold it's head down.

Of course I thought of starting a "Which scope should Carlos buy if he doesn't win?"
but although the thread may be a "success", I dont' believe it will result in any more votes.
 There is already a thread for that! :)

Now I must refill my coffee cup, replace my dead car battery and find more horses and people to PM and get them to go vote...three times, every day until the 15th.





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Offline Richard Head

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2016, 05:46:55 am »
 Sometimes it's not enough to lead the horse to water, you have to push it in, and hold it's head down.   :-DD
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2016, 06:25:27 am »
Hi All,

We are doing everything we can to manage and legitimize votes as best as we can  :scared:. At least with Facebook voting we can check voter's profiles.  Any sort of online voting is very, very difficult to regulate.

Please, please, please keep rallying around your preferred candidate.  I'm also working on some stuff behind the scenes.
not sure it works : my facebook profile is completely anonymous, I dont like the facebook methods
but sometimes it's usefull in contests to vote or write you on the list...
so my facebook profile is somewhat completely anonymous... althought I'm a real voter !

Offline Brumby

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2016, 06:29:23 am »
not sure it works : my facebook profile is completely anonymous, I dont like the facebook methods
but sometimes it's usefull in contests to vote or write you on the list...
so my facebook profile is somewhat completely anonymous... althought I'm a real voter !

Sounds like my approach.
 

Offline lpc32

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2016, 03:18:34 pm »
My Facebook profile is as anonymous as it gets: it doesn't exist. :) I wonder what's the percentage of people in the forum with Facebook accounts. I'm guessing it's lower among techies?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:20:35 pm by lpc32 »
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2016, 05:11:04 pm »
I shudder to think how much suspected cheating there would be without the Facebook requirement...

Also, keep rallying!  We're working on making sure the voting is clean.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2016, 05:15:11 pm »
I shudder to think how much suspected cheating there would be without the Facebook requirement...

Also, keep rallying!  We're working on making sure the voting is clean.

There is no question that it is difficult to run online voting without DNA scans or fingerprints. It's a crazy world out there.

I just voted 3x for the day. Keep voting everyone, if you cannot figure out who to vote for  - just ask me. I have a good idea who you should vote for.
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Offline Brumby

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2016, 12:09:46 am »
This is interesting ....

I was having a look at what measures can be taken to keep the voting honest - and one 'solution provider' included the following in their means of detection...
Quote
#1 Fake Facebook accounts generally have nothing on their wall or profile except for the interests of contests

If you are in doubt about the legitimacy of a given participant, check their Facebook public profile. A good app will make this easy.  Generally speaking, they are either empty, they only like brand pages have few friends and no personal content. Sometimes, they are also 100% private. A legitimate Facebook account is rarely 100% private and always has some content and likes that reflect the life of a “real” person.

Describes my account - and I'm absolutely bloody real!  Just because I don't choose to blather all over social media to reflect a 'life' of a real person.....  Sorry - I have a life ... and Facebook isn't it.


I suppose this makes the detection business a little more difficult - but there are some crazy things happening with this vote.  But, then, a $70,000 scope package is likely to attract some serious salivating.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2016, 01:03:15 am »
I shudder to think how much suspected cheating there would be without the Facebook requirement...

Also, keep rallying!  We're working on making sure the voting is clean.

I think the way Dave does it will be clean.  He does not use Facebook, nor is there a way to buy votes as far as I can tell.
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Offline Carl_Smith

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2016, 01:49:19 am »
Quote
If you are in doubt about the legitimacy of a given participant, check their Facebook public profile. A good app will make this easy.  Generally speaking, they are either empty, they only like brand pages have few friends and no personal content. Sometimes, they are also 100% private. A legitimate Facebook account is rarely 100% private and always has some content and likes that reflect the life of a “real” person.

The only reason I ever signed up for Facebook was to be in contact with (and spy on) :) family members, and use Facebook messenger to talk to them.  I have about 30 friends, and with the exception of one good real friend, they are all family - Mom, sister, aunts, uncles, cousins.  I refuse to friend anyone else.  Almost all of my posts are friends only, you won't see much if you look at my public page. 

I suspect that a large number of EEVBlog followers fit this description, or have no Facebook account at all.  Shame that their votes would be disqualified because their social media activity is not public enough.


Offline Brumby

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Re: [ Poll ] Voting for Carlos A in the Keysight contest
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2016, 02:13:21 am »
I should add that the quote I took was from a place that was offering an App to help keep voting on the up-and-up.  There may be some bias towards supporting the mechanisms they utilise in their App.  (It is marketing, after all.)
 


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