Caesar Salad, the authentic way...

[BrianHG]

20 years ago, one of my local favorite fine dining restaurants closed.  They used to have the waiter make the Caesar salad at the table in a wooden bowl just like you see in this video.  It was the best.



I always loved it with extra Anchovies ans extra Parmesan cheese.

[Smokey]

You mean it didn't always just come from a bag at Trader Joes? 

That's cool.  I didn't know the history.  Thanks.

[coppercone2]

how do you do it with out fish.

Its interesting because it seems like one of the true roman recpies left, that is, they use garum like substance.

True hallmark of civilization is : how disgusting is your ketchup like substance?

They used fish in the ancient times. It moved towards mushroom sauce in old times (a little funky) to tomato paste, probobly purchased in giant cubes, in modern times.

[jpanhalt]

how do you do it with out fish.

I surveyed various bottles of Caesar dressing at Walmart and Meijers.  It seems Worcestershire sauce is sometimes substituted for anchovies.  For a tangy, quick "mock" dressing, I use Lea & Perrins brand and Hidden Valley Ranch dressing and Bordens whole milk buttermilk.  The ranch dressing provides the oil, emulsifiers, garlic,salt,pepper, and other stuff, buttermilk gives the cheese and reduces viscosity, and Lea & Perrins gives a little fermented fishy tang.

Ratios by volume:
Hidden Valley: 3 (about 9 oz)
Buttermilk: 1 (3 oz)
Lea & Perrins: 1-1/2 to 2 tablespoons

The family likes it.   I also have a recipe for "real" Caesar's, but I need to write it out neatly.  I found that white anchovies or specific brands (e.g., Agostino Recca ) are far better than the terrible fishy versions found commonly on store shelves in the US.  The Agostino have more of a meaty flavor, sort of like swordfish vs. salmon.  Another detail I discovered is that Berios Extra Virgin olive oil (green can) gets bitter and is not as good as the "traditional" (gold can) for the dressing.  Will post actual recipe later.  It's quite simple.

EDIT:
@BrianHG
We used to go to the Stuft Shirt Restaurant in Pasadena, California (early 1960's).  It also had waiters make the dressing by the table, and it was quite good.  Turns out, you can still find the name on Google: https://pcad.lib.washington.edu/building/5057/  My recipe is based mostly on memory from that.

[tooki]

how do you do it with out fish.

It’s interesting because it seems like one of the true roman recpies left, that is, they use garum like substance.

Well garum was Roman (the modern descendant being colatura di alici), but Caesar dressing was invented in 1924 in Tijuana, Mexico.

Other than allergies, why would you want to make it without the anchovies? They provide delightful umami to it.

It seems Worcestershire sauce is sometimes substituted for anchovies.

In the original recipe, Worcestershire sauce was used, and no anchovies. (As an anchovy lover, though, I am glad they’re now a common ingredient.) Worcestershire sauce itself contains anchovies too, but not as a dominant ingredient.


BTW, a high quality Vietnamese or Thai fish sauce is actually a great way to add anchovy flavor to Italian foods without having to commit to opening a whole can of anchovies. (I use the Squid Brand premium sauce, the one with the gold label.)

[armandine2]

  How about a Waldorf the inauthentic way?

[jpanhalt]

Here's my recipe based on memory from the restaurant I mentioned earlier.

[Halcyon]

Far from traditional, but a different take on a chicken Caesar:

[coppercone2]

I think the best unami for a salad is bulgarian feta,, then you can go really light for the dressing even pure vinegar or lemon works, or at least you can go down on oil content, i.e. 50% instead of 30% vinegar, or even more.

it is not like the normal feta cheese

A high vinegar dressing IMO is rather harsh for a traditional parmasan cheese (especially grated coarse), but with a creamy malleable feta the game is changed to require much less oils

I think the ceasar salad is very specific in making parmasan cheese, basically chopped, taste good cold and probobly essential for making a salad eddible with Reggianito, which is like parmasan cheese jerky.. that one is like a reagent not a cheese


Parmasan, cold, has to be basically drenched in oil to be edible (usually oily pizza or spaghetti), otherwise it basically requires roasting. I find it grated to be disappointing in salads if you don't really up the oil content of the dressing.


It seems like its a bit of a incomplete cheese product. Degreased cheese. If its cooked though that is a unique situation where it ends up being delicious for a different reason on things like roasted vegetables (with almost no oil on them). Then it kinda starts getting a reputation for being a component in health foods, since it basically turns into a kinda spice, if salt is used sparingly.



I kind of wonder now about a super ceasar salad, where the cheese is slightly burned, cooled, and re-ground.

[5U4GB]

Far from traditional, but a different take on a chicken Caesar:

And here's the English version:

[coppercone2]

finally found some vegeterian caesar that does something with soy or w/e to get rid of anchovies. pretty good for a substitute.


Grating the parmasan is the hard part, the last one I got is a fucking brick. I am actually debating working on it with a meat hammer, it might just disintegrate lol

[jpanhalt]

Hand grating is for restaurants and show.  Use a Kitchenaid of similar.  I get mine grated fresh at Ferrara's Market on the East side of Cleveland.  The "old man" died a few years, and it's now been passed to a relative.  They tightly pack it in containers that can be frozen, and it will store in a deep freezer a long time.

[Psi]

Does it bother anyone else seeing salt or pepper used when the amount used is so small that it will make zero noticeable difference to the food.

I mean, it's not exactly good for you, so if you don't add enough to change the taste then why add any at all. You're getting the bad without any good.
Adding it only for 'show' is silly. 


Also kinda stupid in that video that they didnt use a rubber spatula to get all the sauce from the sides of the bowl to the center so it gets on the lettuce instead of wasted in the bowl.
Thought it would be fine if they were making more Caesar salads in the same bowl. However it looks to me like they make that in front of the table for the person ordering, and that will start with a clean bowl i'm sure.


Looking at those perfectly shaped lettuce leaves does make me wonder what happened to the rest of the head of lettuce with non ideal shaped leaves.

[5U4GB]

Did I make anyone cry?

[coppercone2]

I think if you eat alot of pepper you won't notice but if you don't a very small amount will be fine. Some people are extremely perceptive of pepper. Particularly if they don't eat ridiculously spicy things.

[jpanhalt]

I mean, it's not exactly good for you, so if you don't add enough to change the taste then why add any at all. You're getting the bad without any good.

Salt is required for human life.

Also kinda stupid in that video that they didnt use a rubber spatula to get all the sauce from the sides of the bowl to the center so it gets on the lettuce instead of wasted in the bowl.

I always toss my salad.  Dressing left on the sides of whatever the dressing is prepared or salad tossed in is irrelevant.   I can't stand the new generation of silicone spatulas, spoons, and  forks made not to scratch non-stick cookware.

[Psi]

I mean, it's not exactly good for you, so if you don't add enough to change the taste then why add any at all. You're getting the bad without any good.

Salt is required for human life.

yeah but we all get enough of it without needing to add more to anything

Also kinda stupid in that video that they didnt use a rubber spatula to get all the sauce from the sides of the bowl to the center so it gets on the lettuce instead of wasted in the bowl.

  I can't stand the new generation of silicone spatulas, spoons, and  forks made not to scratch non-stick cookware.

The primary reason you use a silicone spatula is not to protect non-stick cookware. They exist because, unlike plastic or wood spatulas, they actually work and remove every last piece of food in one pass leaving the bowel clean and dry behind them. They really are magical. Like good quality solder wick

[Halcyon]

I mean, it's not exactly good for you, so if you don't add enough to change the taste then why add any at all. You're getting the bad without any good.

Salt is required for human life.

Most people don't need additional salt in their diet. I use salt in cooking, but almost never add it to prepared food, and I'm probably still exceeding the daily recommended limit without even trying.

Salt is abundant most of the food we consume or cook with. Additional salt is typically used as a flavour enhancer, not because it's needed as a supplement. A mere 5 grams is the upper daily limit for adults. The body itself only needs about 1 to 2 grams of salt (460 to 920mg of sodium) from all sources of food to function normally. To put this into context, 2 slices of normal grainy bread from the supermarket contains about 300mg of sodium. A single Quarter Pounder from (an Australian) McDonalds contains 1110mg of sodium.

[jpanhalt]

A lecture on the necessity of salt is not needed.  The point I was responding to was, "I mean, it's not exactly good for you."  It is necessary for life.  Have you ever tried a low-salt diet of about 2g /day?  I haven't but, but those who have say it's horrible.  I agree, most people don't need additional salt and some really over do it.  Prepared foods (e.g., frozen meals and restaurants) have way too much salt for my taste.

Another ingredient that is often mentioned in recipes is sugar.  I rarely add any.

[coppercone2]

I think it helps if you are sick with infection for the throat and for puncture wounds or cuts (makes more salt under the skin to fight bacteria)

kind of nasty side effect from it though as far as 'medication' use goes. Gurgling salt water seems to help the throat without consuming too much

there is a layer under your skin that has alot of salt to fight bacteria that try to get in there. But I think it leads to high blood pressure at elevated levels if you continously consume elevated amounts. Luckily its not addictive like sugar might be, if you stop salt for a while and get a normal salt level then you will just find the excess salt nasty. Sugar is more directly useful for your body.

I do wonder though if occasionally having a high sugar meal can help some other part of your body get a rest that normally processes carbohydrates and stuff. You do wonder if there is some kind of 'fouling' that develops inside of the cells and organs from say constantly processing healthy whole grain complex carbs for extended periods of time...

Essentially there must be some system that does nothing when you get calories from sugar because it absorbs and processes so easy. I know there are molecular assistants in the body for most processes involved with like... cleaning relevant proteins, channels, organelles, dna repairs, etc. Akin to shutting down the factory so you can sweep. Perhaps its why many people say eating late night meals is not great for you.. Like a chip extractor on a CNC machine. It  works pretty good but occasionally you gotta turn the thing off and actually clean it because it gets all sorts of nasty in there. Sleep and fasting seem like two clear options, but I wonder if sugar can occasionally help with that too. And you also rest the glands that make the enzymes and stomach things for processing complex carbs

[jpanhalt]

When you are sick, it's important to stay well hydrated.  I doubt it has anything to do with salt intolerance of some bacteria.  Do you have any data to support your theories?

[coppercone2]

for skin you can definitely find it for throat emperical/folk knowledge from gurgling salt

there is some lymph-related layer in the skin that transports salt and increases wound healing because it is hostile to bacteria

i am not gonna be researching this on memorial day
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/ATVBAHA.118.311149

you can absorb it through the skin somewhat too I believe (healing properties of dead sea)

https://www.science.org/content/article/does-high-salt-diet-combat-infections


I don't think people like this one very much because salt is a good boogyman

[jpanhalt]

As typical, your comments seem outlandish and/or imprecise.

I asked specifically for a link to support the following statement of yours, "I think it helps if you are sick with infection for the throat and for puncture wounds or cuts (makes more salt under the skin to fight bacteria)"  that a high salt diet helps.  I am not going to waste my time searching for something you have hidden in your drawers.

[coppercone2]

you could just try gurgling some salty water if you get a sore throat and see if it helps you

[5U4GB]

you could just try gurgling some salty water if you get a sore throat and see if it helps you

For this you can also use Betadine (more universally known as povidone-iodine), a dilute iodine solution specifically made for skin disinfection and as a throat gargle.  The idea is to use it if you think you're at risk rather than when you're already infected.

I would not recommend it as a condiment for Caesar Salad.