coffee

[djacobow]

Who's fallen down the rabbit hole of pursuing the perfect cup?

I like espresso drinks but figured out early on that making really good espresso at home could get very, very expensive. So I tried low cost approaches like and hand grinder plus a Moka Pot or Aeropress, and, for milk drinks, frothing milk using the microwave and a handheld frother.

So far I've found the experience to be less than satisfactory, so I'm looking at the espresso machines again. But the very bottom of the non-junky appliances is like $800 and people regularly pay $8000.

That's not a lot of money compared to my electronics and photography habits, but ...

[Halcyon]

I just buy locally roasted whole beans from my local cafe and use a semi-automated coffee machine. Does a decent job.

[djacobow]

I just buy locally roasted whole beans from my local cafe and use a semi-automated coffee machine. Does a decent job.

Ha ha, very reasonable. But that's about 1000 km from the coffee rabbit hole.

These are the rabbit hole:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMb0O2CdPBNi-QqPk5T3gsQ

https://www.youtube.com/c/LanceHedrick

https://www.youtube.com/c/MorganDrinksCoffee

https://www.youtube.com/user/EuropeanCoffeeTrip/featured

This is a good parody:

[cybermaus]

That YouTube was believable till he got to "vanilla coffee"

KILL THE HERETIC!

[Halcyon]

Drip coffee is not really a thing here, not when you have access to an abundance of freshly roasted beans. I mean sure, you can go down to your local supermarket and buy pre-ground or even worse, instant coffee, which a lot of people do, but I consider that on the borderline of what is actual coffee. You don't necessarily know how old the beans are and with instant... well... that stuff is barely coffee at all. It's like comparing instant ramen to freshly made pasta. The only time you'll see drip is generally with cold brews.

If you were to buy a coffee anywhere from McDonalds all the way through to your fanciest cafes and restaurants, it's almost always espresso. Beans ground fresh for that cup and brewed then and there.

You don't need some fancy contraption to get a good, proper coffee either. As long as you start with good quality fresh ingredients, apply the right amount of water, heat and pressure, you get a nice drop. For well under $1000, you can get results that are pretty close to the best, most expensive coffee machines available, you just need to know how to use them.

I've watched James' videos and a lot of them are quite good, however there are some where he just goes overboard. Over here in Australia, we call that "wanker coffee".

[Round_Corner]

I like to use pour-over method of preparing a cup of coffee. It is the cheapest way to make coffee at home for personal or small family. You just need a way to oil water, a plastic cone and a filter.

[djacobow]

I like to use pour-over method of preparing a cup of coffee. It is the cheapest way to make coffee at home for personal or small family. You just need a way to oil water, a plastic cone and a filter.

I think for a casual, easy cup of coffee, I'm liking the Aeropress. It's cheap and even less fuss than a pourover, I'd say.

That said, I just spent some money on an espresso machine. It gets here in a few weeks...

[floobydust]

I bought a decent coffee grinder Virtuoso+ (conical burr) and use a French Press, for a while now. Experimenting with water temperature, grind, amount of coffee etc.

But twice I've bought some terrible coffee beans, almost allergic to them it's weird. They taste green and bitter, sour the coffee they make, just gross. I noticed the bean's center is light beige looks unroasted sorta in the middle. So I never buy beans looking like that.
They were Costco Java Club and Kicking Horse Coffee Three Sisters blends. YUCK!

The quality of beans seems to be lower with the small players, independents doing roasting? Starbucks used to sell a few varieties of beans but no more.

[BrokenYugo]

I'm cheap and lazy, so I do cold brew a week's worth at a time. About 4oz/100g into something like a liter of water for 12-16 hours in the fridge, I use a kit I got cheap at Aldi that's just a glass carafe with a stainless sieve insert about as tall as the carafe and a lid to cap it off after the sieve is pulled out. Before that I just shook it all up in a pitcher and filtered it into another after the steeping, but that's a messy pain in the ass. I find pre packed ground coffee tastes fine if you cold brew it, so I just get the cheap stuff at Aldi and freeze the partial bag.

[rfclown]

Ahh... coffee... The perfect cup. I bought a book years ago with that title. I figure that non-coffee drinkers will miss out on something about heaven... I bet God has some AWESOME coffee. We coffee drinkers will be sitting around immensely enjoying the awesome brews, and the non-coffee drinkers will just be missing out.

I used to drink primarily American coffee. I now mostly drink espresso drinks. When I was doing American coffee I started roasting beans in a hot air popcorn popper. I could duplicate the taste of any good medium (or light) roast that I could buy (but make it cheaper). What I found were the important factors:

(1) beans
(2) freshness
(3) don't add bad flavors

Everything else is WAY secondary (grind, etc). You have to have a quality bean that you like. My go to was Guatemalan Antigua. I also like some Indonesian beans like Sumatra and Java. Kona I like, but not the price. I don't care for any African I've tried. Your preference is subjective. Freshness (after roasting) is important. Green beans keep a long time. But the taste of any roasted/baked item doesn't last forever. The good flavor goes away, and the oils get rancid. Interesting thing is that coffee isn't at its best immediately after roasting. I don't know what it is. I've read about "out-gassing". Whatever it is, it needs to settle a little. For me, I'd roast what I needed for about a week. Didn't need to roast the same day or couple days. You can tell just by smelling the container of beans when you open it. The amora is there, or not (or bad). Grinding before a brew is the best, but I don't. I grind for a few days. I don't notice a difference. Again, the BIG factors are the 3 I listed (in my experience).

For (3), it can be anything. If your water tastes bad it affects the taste. I'm not a fanatic on this; I usually use tap water. But my tap water varies with time, and if I can taste chlorine, I'll use bottled water. Taste your water. If it tastes bad, use something else. I don't understand people using brown coffee filters. Just run water through one and taste it. Yuck. If your pot/cup is dirty enough, you'll taste it. Whatever method you use to make coffee, try it WITHOUT the coffee and taste the outcome. If your water/filter/hygene adds bad taste, you'll notice. Don't add bad flavors to a wonderful drink.

Several years ago I started drinking primarly espresso drinks, and I couldn't figure out how to roast, blend, whatever it takes to equal what I could buy. So I now buy Starbucks beans (Espresso, Italian, French roast. I like them all). I still grind for a few days. I always check the date on the bag. The date on the bag is 6 months after roasting and it makes a noticable difference. It is NOT the same after 6 months. I don't buy it unless the date indicates that it is fresh. I use a simple steam machine or moka pot. I had a pump machine for a while, but for my tastes, the 3 items in my list trump everything else. Fresh beans that I like with no added off flavors make a drink that I enjoy.

A few years ago I was in Rochester, NY and stumbled upon Canaltown coffee roasters. The best espresso drinks I've had. They roast their coffee and I talked to the owner/roaster. Unfortunatley it's not local to me and I'm not willing to pay the shipping costs to buy the beans. I did get a hint from talking to the owner that maybe I was over-roasting in trying for espresso. He indicated that the Guatemalan and Indonesian beans I liked should work well (I had wondered if I needed to add some robusta). I've not tried roasting again recently.

...add. When I make drip (American), I just pour a single cup using a Melita thing over a mug. I'm the only one in the house that drinks coffee.  If I have a party (not often), I'll pull out a drip coffee maker, or just call out "anyone want espresso/cappucino?" and my steam machine will do 4 shots at a time.

[rodpp]

I agree with @rfclown, beans are the most important factor to have an excellent coffee. It's origin, freshness, roasting profile, and grinding, all have a direct effect in the final result.

I live in Brazil, near some coffee plantation regions in Minas Gerais (Sul de Minas, Cerrado Mineiro, Mantiqueira, etc). The coffee shops here always have some options with different characteristics, and normally they roast beans every week.

I like espresso coffe, and the age of the roasted beans plays a important role in the final espresso cup. Considering well storaged roasted beans, with minimal contact with air and light, and grinding just before the extraction, the optimal age is between 7 and 12 days from the roast date, but are very good until around 20 days and acceptable around 30 days. After that, the beans aren't suitable to produce an excellent espresso anymore, because it already lost the majority of it's volatile compounds. Some say that a good measure for storage is 30 months for raw beans, 30 days for roasted beans, and 30 seconds for ground.

Another extraction method that I use very often is pour over, using the Hario V60.

[brucehoult]

I'm not sure I'd know the "perfect cup" if I fell over it, but I'm not prepared to settle for *bad* coffee.

Yes, freshly roasted -- and VERY freshly ground -- beans are very important. For many years I was buying a few kilos of green beans at a time and then roasting about 120 g in a popcorn popper once every three or four days. I've gotten out of that habit, but at the very least you should try to buy beans roasted the previous day directly from the roasters. Buying a couple of kilos of freshly roasted beans and freezing them until just before you use them is maybe not ideal, but it given much better results than buying roasted beans that have been sitting on a supermarket shelf (and warehouse...) for who knows how long.

There are some cheaper machines that can give good results (for example the Rancilio Miss Silvia) but in general I think you're best to go for a machine with an E61 group head. New, they start at something close to US$2000 and go up a lot from there, but the most basic E61 will make just as good coffee as a high end one.

They all tend to have stainless steel bodies, copper boiler and piping, and the E61 group head itself is chrome plated brass. They're not lightweight, they're not super cheap, but they WILL last forever. They are designed for servicing. Everything comes apart, every part can be replaced at very reasonable cost -- at worst a main circuitboard or boiler costs a couple of hundred dollars, but that's a once in a decade or two thing.

Every decent city has a shop that services the commercial machines in cafes and they will happily look after your home E61 machine as well -- and many of the parts are the same.

Because of the parts and servicing situation, it's completely practical to buy a 10 or even 20 year old machine.

In about 2007 I bought a five or six year old La Scala Butterfly in New Zealand for about US$1000. I took it with me when I moved to Moscow in 2015 and sold it there when I left Russia in 2018 -- for US$1000.

In Fremont California in 2019-20 I had a coffee shop with its own roasting operation and open until midnight (?) every day 1 km from my house so I never quite got around to buying an espresso machine there.

When I returned to NZ in early 2020 I found a coffee roasting factory in the small town of Kerikeri (pop 7000) 40 km from me. Good! I went in to take a look and saw an old "Rocket E61" (NZ owned company that bought ECM's domestic machine operations) on the shelf, about 15 years old. It turned out they were selling it on behalf of a customer -- NZ$1000 (US$700) all together for the espresso machine, a Mini Macho grinder, stainless steel tamper, a couple of stainless steel milk steam jugs, and a set of four cappuchino cups and saucers. So I've been using that for nearly a year and a half and it's great.

There are other deals like that out there. Someone with more money than sense is always upgrading to the latest model and you can get their old machine cheap. If it's working when they demo it to you then it's very likely to keep working. And if it stops working then it won't cost much to fix.

Notes:

- it's much more convenient to go for at least a heat exchanger (HX) machine, or dual boiler (not single boiler) so you don't have to wait for the machine to heat up or cool down between making coffee and steaming the milk.

- vibra pump does the job, but long term it might be cheaper to have a rotary pump machine as you often need a new $50 vibra pump every 5 to 10 years depending on use fequency. Rotary is also a lot quieter, but they're also usually on machines with a plumbed-in water supply not an internal tank. I've only ever had vibra pump machines.

[Ian.M]

Last year's Coffee thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/coffee/

IMHO you can go as far overboard chasing the perfect cup of coffee as a rich audiophool can go chasing 'perfect' sound.

[brucehoult]

You can -- but damn near anything is cheaper long term than paying a cafe $5 a day for a coffee with raw materials costing under $1.

For the setup using second-hand equipment I described in my previous message, I need to make about 250 flat whites (cappuchino etc) at home instead of buying them at a cafe to make back my outlay. For an all-new E61 and quality grinder setup that might be 1000 coffees instead -- from equipment that will have 20+ year lifetime. That's not even counting the time and maybe expense of walking or driving to the cafe to get it. Once the machine is warm (5-10 min) it's about three minutes to make a flat white and clean up.

That doesn't mean never again going to a cafe to meet friends or enjoy the ambience. But it does mean not buying cafe coffee when you're just going to take it straight to home or the office to drink at your desk anyway.

[LoveLaika]

For all the engineers here, anyone tried using complicated setups, a la Gale from Breaking Bad? I tend to just go instant. Gets the job done.

[djacobow]

Well, I've had my espresso machine now for a few weeks, and it has been fun getting "dialed" and trying different coffees.

I got a Lelit PL91T "Victoria", about $1100. This is a single-boiler machine with a "standard" 58mm group size, a vibrating pump, and PID temperature control. So far, I like the machine just fine, except that I wish I hadn't cheaped out on the single boiler, as I do not like waiting to make steam, and worse, waiting to make coffee again after using steam. I do not feel bad about not getting a more expensive E61 / HX machine.

Shots so far have been a mixed bag, but there have been some very good ones. I use a bottomless portafilter so that I could watch what's going on, and my shots generally look pretty good.

One funny thing about having the new machine is realizing that I don't always want an espresso. Sometimes I want regular black coffee. Sure, I can make an Americano, but it's less fuss to use the Aeropress for that, and I think the results are actually better (for that purpose). Thing is, I look over at the $1k machine and all the associated accoutrements and feel like I'm cheating on them. Hah.

Another thing I have learned is that it is possible to buy quality, freshly roasted 3rd-wave artisanal coffee beans that, on tasting, I "just don't like." So there's going to be a lot of fun finding the coffee that I prefer the most. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so there are plenty of local roasters, even one walking distance from my house that has some nice blends.

[LoveLaika]

Wow. That's top notch. I don't really go for espressos, but it sounds like I'm missing out on something.

What about a return to simpler tech? The last coffee innovation that I recall was the fancy Chemex.

[djacobow]

Wow. That's top notch. I don't really go for espressos, but it sounds like I'm missing out on something.

What about a return to simpler tech? The last coffee innovation that I recall was the fancy Chemex.

The Chemex is a great brewer, no doubt!

[LoveLaika]

Sometimes the old ways are still the best.

[djacobow]

Sometimes the old ways are still the best.

Well, in that case, maybe you should try a Moka Pot, invented 1933, instead of your Chemex, invented 1941.

I do like the Moka Pot a lot. It's nothing like a pour over. It's a more syrupy, intense coffee, almost espresso-like.

Then again modern tech has its appeal. I really like the results I get from the aeropress, and it's cheap and the cleanup is a snap.

[cybermaus]

Then again modern tech has its appeal. I really like the results I get from the aeropress, and it's cheap and the cleanup is a snap.

Is that really new though? French presses have been around a long time, just because a company re-styles its appearance and slaps a TM on it does not mean it is a new invention.

[LoveLaika]

I've definitely seen a Moka Pot before, even if I never knew what it was called until now. Are the benefits worth all of the maintenance?

It's always fascinating how people develop and innovate around something over time for better or worse (in this case, coffee).

[cybermaus]

It bit non-electronic channel, but since we talk about mocha pots: https://youtu.be/qMrlyEreba8

[djacobow]

Then again modern tech has its appeal. I really like the results I get from the aeropress, and it's cheap and the cleanup is a snap.

Is that really new though? French presses have been around a long time, just because a company re-styles its appearance and slaps a TM on it does not mean it is a new invention.

It really makes pretty different coffee from a French press. First, the aeropress uses a paper filter (unless your switch to metal). Second, French press is really an infusion coffee maker whereas aeropress is a sort of hybrid between infusion and percolation. All the water and grounds start out together, but when you "press" you force the column of almost coffee through the grounds. And cleanup really is just much less fussy.

[cybermaus]

All the water and grounds start out together, but when you "press" you force the column of almost coffee through the grounds

So the paper instead of metal roster is a (minor) change, but how does above description differ from a description of the french press?

[djacobow]

All the water and grounds start out together, but when you "press" you force the column of almost coffee through the grounds

So the paper instead of metal roster is a (minor) change, but how does above description differ from a description of the french press?

A french press is completely an infusion device. The coffee grounds and water hang out together. You wait for it to become coffee, then push down to separate the grounds from the liquor, and you drink that. What the aeropress is doing is a little different, because you are pushing the water through a "puck" of coffee grounds. The water is in contact with the beans for less time. It is the difference between infusion and percolation.

The difference in taste has to do with the different compounds in the beans and how quickly they can be dissolved into the water. With an infusion brew as you wait to dissolve the harder-to-dissolve compounds, you get much more of the easier to dissolve compounds. With the percolation, you get a different profile because you're not waiting for the harder to dissolve compounds at all.

The aeropress isn't really a percolation brewer, though. It's more of a hybrid, where you can sort of decide yourself how much infusion and how much percolation you want, based on how long you wait before pressing and how fast you press.

Another difference with the aeropress is that you generally use finer ground coffee than you would use with a french press, so you are exposing more of the bean surface area, getting a strong cup per unit of beans.

Finally, yeah, the paper filter is different, as paper tends to block the oils from getting into your cup entirely. This makes for a "cleaner" tasting cup, though some will also say "less body."

[LoveLaika]

I thought about getting a Chemex, but after seeing the prices of the filters used for it, I was quickly turned off.

[AnasMalas]

for milk drinks, frothing milk using the microwave and a handheld frother.

I myself have fallen down the rabbit hole of chasing good coffee... but im also a student who cant afford even a basic espresso machine. Instead I use Nespresso and I just cover up its taste with milk, which ive gotten pretty good at foaming (btw, Corto is one of exactly 3 Nespresso capsules I can even swallow, Costa Classic is another one, but I digress)

My secret to perfect frothed milk is this:
https://www.ikea.com/jo/en/p/egentlig-coffee-tea-maker-double-walled-clear-glass-80361823/

This magical thing has no metal once you remove the plunger, so I can place it directly in the microwave at 700 W with 200 ml of full-fat (3.25%) milk for 80 to 100 seconds (depending on what type of foam I want that day. If you want a hotter cup with harder foam, heat the milk up more), and its size is perfect for one large cup (or three small cups if you have company)

When the microwave beeps, the preheated cup already has the shot of espresso in it. Take the plunger and put it in. Do two or three rapid full length plunges to introduce air to the milk. The more full length plunges, the more foam you make and the harder the foam comes out, so dont over do it. After the 2/3 full plunges youll see that the milk has risen in volume, now move the plunger within the milk, being careful not to go too high and add more air into the mix. This now smoothens the air inside the milk giving it a very velvety texture, just like what you expect from good steamed milk. Pull the plunger all the way up and swirl the milk before removing it. If you did all that right, you can even do some poor latte art. The milk doesnt come out very hot, but I like that more anyway. (heat the milk to boiling if you want to create insulation foam out of your milk. Ask me how I know)

Method TL;DR: Heat, plunge fully, plunge partially, swirl, enjoy

[james_s]

I sometimes wish I liked coffee because I think some of the machines used to make it are fascinating. I worked on a commercial espresso machine once that was imported from Italy and it was a really impressive contraption. Also I live in the greater Seattle area where not liking coffee is practically sacrilege. Alas I cannot stand the stuff, I like the smell, probably because it reminds me of my grandmother's place when I was a kid but the taste is just vile.

[beanflying]

Resident addict checking in. To the Left of the Bench is my little 1kg roaster and to the Right is the three Group Lever machine and grinder.

My TEA collection is small by comparison 

[beanflying]

I thought about getting a Chemex, but after seeing the prices of the filters used for it, I was quickly turned off.

Look at the Hario range as well and in particular the Able Kone range of filters https://ablebrewing.com/products/kone-coffee-filter You will get more oils through these and minimal to zero fines if you get the grind correct for the process.

If you must do paper make sure the filters are unbleached or even rinsed prior to use because paper tastes

[djacobow]

Resident addict checking in. To the Left of the Bench is my little 1kg roaster and to the Right is the three Group Lever machine and grinder.

My TEA collection is small by comparison 

Wait... three group? How much coffee are you making?! Also, what is the warm-up time on that beast?

I'm really enjoying my new machine, but I just went a bit further down the rabbit hole again: I put in an order for a Niche Zero grinder.  (£499). It's not that my existing hand-grinder was getting bad results, but I was making two espresso for me and one for my wife every morning and I was getting tired of grinding.

[langwadt]

I sometimes wish I liked coffee because I think some of the machines used to make it are fascinating. I worked on a commercial espresso machine once that was imported from Italy and it was a really impressive contraption. Also I live in the greater Seattle area where not liking coffee is practically sacrilege. Alas I cannot stand the stuff, I like the smell, probably because it reminds me of my grandmother's place when I was a kid but the taste is just vile.

https://youtu.be/Z-iNAyu-ejo

[Coordonnée_chromatique]

Hello, you should try the very classical and cheap slow pass process because it is the best and the most ancient one and it works for all the avaliable sort of coffees.
Progressively you will be able to detect the horrible "melted plastic" taste of the capsules and when you will be ready, you should buy a porcelain filter support for few dollars in consequence of subtile "hot plastic" taste again.

[beanflying]

Resident addict checking in. To the Left of the Bench is my little 1kg roaster and to the Right is the three Group Lever machine and grinder.

My TEA collection is small by comparison 

Wait... three group? How much coffee are you making?! Also, what is the warm-up time on that beast?

I'm really enjoying my new machine, but I just went a bit further down the rabbit hole again: I put in an order for a Niche Zero grinder.  (£499). It's not that my existing hand-grinder was getting bad results, but I was making two espresso for me and one for my wife every morning and I was getting tired of grinding.

I have made Coffee for $ in one form or another for the last 10 years so the 3 group is a luxury leftover along with a few others and a bunch of grinders Takes about 40 minutes to get the heads up to temperature as I am running it on 3.3kW instead of nearly 5kW  at full power. With a good helper we used to pull 300+ cups in a 5 hour outdoor market on the beast most days it is just me so 2-4.

I was going to ask about a grinder as you didn't reference one. Generally regardless of brew process Grinder is as or more important than the Brewer or Machine. The more modern Hand Grinders for Espresso use can be great but you need to pay particular attention to grind quantity, size and distribution in the basket more than with an electric one.

Most important even when you get the electric is to change only one variable at a time with the grind so grab some accurate scales and weight your shots to check quantity until you can eyeball it better. Then adjust the grind size to set your shot time (the typical 25-30 seconds) for a known shot volume and measure that too initially. Also look at the top surface of your pucks as much as the bottom of your naked to look at you are doing with distribution and tamping. Making a better brew is about improving consistency and reducing/minimizing errors to get the most from the beans you have.

Some of the non Espresso gear no I don't have a problem either 

[rfclown]

nice collection beanflying! In my coffee quest year ago I bought an irbik to make Turkish coffee. Definately not my cup to tea.

[beanflying]

Yeah Turkish/Greek (don't anger the Greeks even if they were second is another whole thing and generally not mine either. The Grind is the issue you need more or less a powder (much finer than Espresso) or the grit sticks to your teeth Also need to keep the temperature down while brewing as much as possible or you burn the beans.

Also if anyone uses a Moka Pot fill the lower chamber with boiling water for a better brew or you will burn the beans by the time it heats the water below. When brewed wrap the whole thing in a damp tea towel to properly stop the heating after for the same reasons.

[djacobow]

I was going to ask about a grinder as you didn't reference one. Generally regardless of brew process Grinder is as or more important than the Brewer or Machine. The more modern Hand Grinders for Espresso use can be great but you need to pay particular attention to grind quantity, size and distribution in the basket more than with an electric one.

My current grinder is an 1Zpresso JX Pro. It's okay, but adjusting it between drip and espresso grinds means counting revolutions, which I get lost and have to restart from "burrs in contact." It also has a static problem. I'm looking forward to the convenience of the Niche, but I will have to wait until December for it to ship. I expect some improvement in grind, but I'm not setting very high expectations, so am improvement will be a pleasant surprise.

I don't think I want an espresso machine that I can see in my utility bill, but I'm sure it's great to use!

[PlainName]

Some of the non Espresso gear

Wow, nice cupboard. Puts my simple gear to shame!

[AnasMalas]

I was getting tired of grinding.

Well, that's the point at which you go ahead and attach a battery powered drill/screwdriver to your hand grinder 

[beanflying]

Latte Artless in the rubble pile that is my bench

[theFarmgineer]

FYI, for drip coffee, there is a certification: https://sca.coffee/certified-home-brewer

I have not looked into it deeply, but it purports to certify whether a drip coffee maker is using the proper temperature.

Drip gets a bad rap, but it could be because there are so many poorly regulated machines. I would hate for a concept to be held down by its worst implementations.


That being said,
I personally use a Breville BES870XL and make fine espresso. I have the beans roasted and shipped to-order (Peets and Crigler Coffee), so its always freshly roasted. I also change out my gaskets regularly and monitor the pressure on the pour as it goes. Its like riding a racing motorcycle, every time you ride, you tweak it a bit. I think the solenoids are starting to go, however, so I might have to open her up finally and replace them.

PS: Crigler Coffee, although only available in the USA, is very fine coffee.

[beanflying]

Drip also got a bad wrap from being made with stale preground coffee that was then left to stew on hotplates for hours after before being served Great drip coffee can be made well outside the SCA spec but it is a good ball park to start with.

Todays slumming in the shack and there is cookies 

[beanflying]

Now sweating in the shack 27 degrees so time to change out the brew a little. Clearly good for you as the label says 'wholesome' 

Drop the double shot over the Ice-cream for a bit of a sweetness boost from the meltage.

[rfclown]

...Drop the double shot over the Ice-cream for a bit of a sweetness boost from the meltage. ...

Reminds me of a time when I used to throw two shots of espresso over some good french vanilla ice cream, add milk and a big spoon of Mrs Richardson's butterscotch/carmel topping and shake it up. Soooo good. I then thought that adding chocolate would make it better.. but NO. Espresso, good ice cream, Mrs Richardson's butterscoth and milk. Yum.

[Siwastaja]

Regarding coffee:

[vk6zgo]

This does all sound a bit like "audiophile" levels of enthusiasm!

The first espresso coffee I ever tried was in the late 1950s at a shop in what they now call "Northbridge" in Perth, WA.

It was a Cappuccino, made with a huge machine manufactured by Gaggia in Italy.

Interestingly, their version did not top the coffee with cocoa powder, but with cinnamon sugar, & was delicious!
Mentioning this to others, usually resulted in a "you're dreaming" reaction, but when I had a coffee machine, that's how I made it.

After a while, though, I thought, maybe I had "false memories", but in the early 2000s, we ordered cappuccino in Bali, & on arrival, they were topped with cinnamon sugar, so I was vindicated, at least as far as knowing it was a real option.

A bit further "off topic", that original shop had Cassatas made on the premises, which were the best I ever tasted!
The funny thing, even the factory made ones have disappeared from the market!

If you aren't worried about your weight, (& at 13, I didn't "give a stuff") a good quality Cassata is the perfect accompaniment to a really good coffee!
 

[Siwastaja]

Finnish coffee culture: quantity over quality. I like that.

[rfclown]

My daughter gave me some coffee for Christmas. It is a light roast, and these days I make espresso drinks and prefer a dark roast for that... So I pulled out the popcorn popper that I used to roast coffee in (modified with a light dimmer in-line with the main heating coil to control the heat) back when I drank mostly drip coffee (for which I prefer a medium roast). I didn't know if you could re-roast coffee, but the experiment was a success. It smelled fantastic roasting it. When roasting green beans, the initial odor (at least in my experience using a popper) isn't that great. I roast outside because of that. With this coffee, from the start it smelled great, and finished smelling awesome. First try was a success, so today I did another batch. Have to give it time to settle before drinking it (out-gassing, or whatever it is. you'd think it would be best right after roasting, but it isn't)

[beanflying]

If anyone wants to play with some roasting then this guide attached below I put together several years ago might help. Ask away if you have other questions.

With the reroasting of beans likely you have baked them and or damaged the lightly roasted bean created in part by the mallard process of the first roast. Depending on how dark you took the reroast (Italian or darker) you will have produced a charcoal like overbearing taste profile damaging or destroying the oils and flavonoids ('should be' the good tasting bits). Warning nerdy science stuff in link https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/what-is-the-maillard-reaction-and-why-is-it-important/

Typically pulling a roast of green beans at the first hints of 'second crack' is a good first place while you get a feel for it and before that allowing 3-4 minutes from the 'first crack' to that point. Third wave hipsters will disagree with this and so will old school Italians so I would get a  depending on the setting. Roasting the beans to the 'correct or best' point for what they are and the intended brew process is important.

My 'typical' commercial Espresso blend is roasted to just on the first part of second crack while my filter or brewed coffee roasted will be well under that.

There is no right or wrong here but if you enjoy the result is all that matters.

[rfclown]

What I called medium roast (what I liked for drip) I was stopping just at the onset of the second crack. I liked that result. When I went beyond that, the flavor seemed to go down and it just seemed burnt. But for espresso, I prefer a darker roast and never figured out how to do it without destoying the beans. I don't know how people do the darker roast (like Starbuck's espresso, Italian, and French roast) without ruining the beans. I like Starbucks, so that's what I use now for espresso drinks. I never tried any other method besides the popcorn popper. When I first tried, the popper I had roasted REALLY fast, so I put the dimmer on it to tone it down.

edit. Just read your roasting write up. I have probably been roasting too fast. Never looked into the proper time, or played with slowing it down more. I adjusted to a point where what I roasted tasted as good as the roasted beans from the coffee shop that I bought my green beans from. But like I said, when I tried to make espresso from anything I did, I didn't like it as well as Starbucks, so I quit roasting.

[beanflying]

For Drip or Filter brews it is fairly common with Hipsters or Wannabe Hipsters like me to bring the over all time down to 10-12 minutes and finish the Roasts not long after first crack. This really starts to work with some of the more floral/fruity varietals and origins. The juggle is still giving the bean time to develop the flavours without pushing it so far you start to lose them in this case.

Espresso roasting to a more fully flavoured and bold result the time between FC and SC is important. At First Crack the beans go exothermic and you need either a short sharp reduction in power or a blast of air or both to kick the profile down against what the beans are doing. Then you can add some more power back in and re adjust the airflow when the ramp you want is established.

Graph below has dual thermocouple in my Roaster drum. Blue is what is called ET (Environmental Temp) and it sits above the bean mass in the air, BT (Bean Temp) sits well inside the moving bean mass. So if you look in and around FC you will see a rise starting in the ET, likely I had already cut 20-25% of the power before FC and would have been pulsing the airflow to get it down to the slower ramp that is desirable after FC.

The lower more wiggly result is the Rate of Rise in Temperature and you can see the change I am forcing in and around FC. The more faded lines are from an earlier roast I was happy with so generally I use that as something to follow in future for that same bean for the same result.

[rfclown]

This is really good information. Thank you. Before I started drinking espresso I liked to try different origins. My #1 goto became Guatemala antigua. I liked Kona, but not the price. My other favorites were Indonesian coffees: Samatra, Java. Not a fan of African coffee. But it was fun trying different things. One problem is that I am the only coffee drinker in the house and most places want to sell you a pound of anything. I drip a single cup at a time with a Melita thing (or do french press, but not usually). I got into roasting because even if I bought a pound of green, I could roast just a small amount (which was all my popper did anyway). So I could have a stash of many varieties (unroasted), but nothing going stale. I was buying beans mail order from California. A coffee shop opened nearby, single owner, new to the business, had one of those big beautiful commercial machines. He would sell me quarter pounds which helped me try lots of things. When he found out that I had started roasting at home he asked me where I got my beans and how much they cost. When I told him, he thought for a moment, then told me that he'd sell me green beans for $4 off the price per pound roasted. From then on I bought my green beans from him. He is gone, and I'm not roasting anymore.

[Noy]

Best coffee i had till now:

Vietnamese coffee from " Saigon Bird Coffee" during my holiday there.

Still here in germany really tasty "Trung Nguyen No.1" with Robusta beans :-)

[mongoF]

So long as a nice light roast single origin, no blends or ‘dark roasts’ blleeeggh. Cigarette ash.

Atkinsons of Lancaster
Red Bank Roasters – Coniston

European-
Drop
Koppi
The barn
Belleville
A few months ago I purchased this expresso machine https://productz.com/en/jura-e8/p/Ke54n and I would recommend it to every coffee lover. It's so easy to use and it makes perfect coffee.

[Labrat101]

 I just treated myself to the Philips  "LatteGo"  being a Coffee only person . Tried many ways all good but more complicated for 1 eye open mornings .
 But I must admit this is the best No brainier for the first Cup of perfect coffee in the morning   
Hold cup press button ..

& being all self contained sits on the bedside cabinet . Coffee in Bed .