Author Topic: Pizza Bases  (Read 29178 times)

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Offline PsiTopic starter

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Pizza Bases
« on: February 14, 2021, 06:12:36 am »
If making pizza at home, my best advice for excellent professional results at home are
- Get proper 00 grade flour (My ratio is: 425g OO flour, 234g water, 8g sugar, 8g salt, 13g olive oil, 3/4tsp yeast)
- Mix it by weight and use the right hydration level for 00 flour.  55% works well for me  (this is what I used above, but test 60% and 65% as different flour behaves differently)
- Use semolina flour when shaping the pizza to stop it sticking to your hands/rolling pin etc.. (a coating of semolina on the outside will make the crust really nice)
- Use a pizza stone or steel for cooking
- Put the stone/steel in the oven and set the temp as high as it will go for 1 hour before inserting the pizza (to get the stone really hot for crispy bottom of pizza).
- When ready, put the pizza in and immediately turn the temp down to 260C (500F)
- Cook for 11-14min

Some other pro tips:
Commercial kitchen food supply stores often sell nice ready-to-use pizza sauce, but it will be in a commercial size package (pretty large).
They will also have 20kg bags of 00 flour which will be much cheaper than supermarket 00 flour
My time/temps are for a generic home oven, if you have a more professional oven you will get better results at a higher temp for less time.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 11:24:03 am by Psi »
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2021, 11:06:45 am »
I would love to build my own outdoor wood fired oven. I find the temperature on most home ovens don't go hot enough. I think mine maxes out at 260 degrees.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2021, 11:45:31 am »
You may want this project instead, keeping with the theme of the forum:







 :-DD
 

Offline mon2

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2021, 01:52:34 am »
Looks delicious!! Yum!!  :-+
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2021, 02:03:26 am »
FYI: I find using a cup of *packed* bread flour, to a cup of water, is about the right ratio.  Fast, and doesn't need a scale.  Note: I keep my flour in the freezer to reduce rancidity; whatever effect this has on humidity (low, presumably?), take that into effect.  YMMV, adjust hydration as needed (add water and knead it in, eh, good luck; easier to go too much and knead in flour until it's right).

Hmm, I should get some pizza toppings...

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Offline janoc

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2021, 12:59:26 pm »
FYI: I find using a cup of *packed* bread flour, to a cup of water, is about the right ratio. 

Sadly, an advice like that really does not translate internationally. Not because we don't measure in cups but because the flour is different everywhere!

I have found this out the hard way when I have moved to France. So what you may have as "bread flour" could be very different from mine - how coarsely (or not) it has been ground, how much humidity is in it, what is the starch content ... Heck, even yeast is not the same.

Baking is not science or engineering, unfortunately - so you will need to try and adapt based on how your own dough comes out.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2021, 01:02:20 pm »
Looks delicious!! Yum!!  :-+

It is - but it took him several months to get there, including a master class in Italy :)

Alex's channel is worth watching - not so much for recipes these days but for the engineering approach to cooking. He is an EE, finally.

(and sometimes the insane hacks - pasta machine driven by a cordless drill anyone?)
 

Offline drussell

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2021, 01:06:37 pm »
(and sometimes the insane hacks - pasta machine driven by a cordless drill anyone?)

I used a cordless drill to run my pasta squeezer a couple years ago when I was at the lake and I somehow forgot to bring the crank handle for it.  I just used a masonry bit that happened to be the right size to engage where the little tabs should be.  My mom laughed, but certainly loved the pasta it made.

Worked great.   8)
 

Offline Yellofriend

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2021, 08:29:57 am »
Old topic, so not sure if people still eat pizza ;-)

I do the dough according to this calculator:

https://scale-pizza.netlify.app/pizza/

Takes 20 hours, but it's worth it. You will have a very formable dough and is very easy to shape by hand.

For the flour, bread flour (aka T55/550/405) works if you can't get 00 type. If I can't get 00 I mix 50% each bread and noodle flour. I don't add sugar or oil. Salt I set higher, about 2.3%

However, the normal home ovens usually do not get hot enough. Mine does 400°C (similar to 3GFerarri), if you like pizza I can highly recommend that type oven (mine wasn't designed for pizza and made it only to 250°C, but after some fiddling with the thermostat.... )
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Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2021, 11:37:33 am »
Couple of extra thing ive discovered since making the first post

1) If you want cheese stuffed crust pizza
- Place two sheets of baking paper on the bench, add some flour to the top to prevent sticking
- Roll/stretch out the pizza a little bigger than you need.
- cut the cheese into slices about 7x7mm and 40mm long or so.
- Place the cheese pieces right on the edge around the pizza
- roll the dough over the cheeze and keep rolling a bit more. You need to roll it more than 360deg. you want maybe 440 deg rotation so the cheese is fully trapped.
- pinch the joins shut.
- Now flip the pizza upside down by pulling out the bottom baking paper and putting it on the top, then you can flip it upside down.
- Now that you have it upside down you can add your sauce and toppings.  Having the join trapped underneath stops it from unrolling when it cooks.
- When the pizza comes out of the oven leave it for 5-10min so the cheese turns solid before cutting

That technique should work to make any pizza dough into cheese stuffed crust without cheese leaking out and messing up the oven.
Some dough hydrations just stick back together really well while others do not. But the above technique is pretty foolproof


2) I'm currently testing adding potato flakes to the dough, apparently it helps make it softer. Will post tomorrow after I test it, currently the dough is resting.

3) Look for semi-dried herbs.  Fresh is better but semi-dried is WAY better than fully dried and much easier to store for months.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 11:40:58 am by Psi »
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Offline Marco

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2021, 03:13:05 pm »
Curious no one has cobbled together an electrically heated steel/stone, a convection oven can probably match the top heat input of a stone oven at significantly lower temperatures, just need to match the bottom then.

That said, I prefer Detroit pizza which needs nothing much special base or oven wise ... shame about the calories.
 
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Offline Yellofriend

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2021, 06:07:48 am »
Curious no one has cobbled together an electrically heated steel/stone, a convection oven can probably match the top heat input of a stone oven at significantly lower temperatures, just need to match the bottom then.


If you look at the G3 Ferrari type oven there isn't very much to it.

A heating element (maybe 1200W) at the bottom, under the pizza stone, and same heating element on top. Heat control is optional, mine is sort of stopping at 400°C - that is good enough for a ~3 Minute pizza. I don't have that brand but I am telling you this type oven makes REALLY good pizza.
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Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2021, 11:50:20 am »
Update:

The  1/4 cup potato flakes + 4x their weight in water added to dough made the dough a bit too wet and harder to roll.

It also expanded lots more than usual making a thicker base.  Some of that is just due to being a wet dough.
But i think next time i will cut the added water for potato flakes down to 2x weight.
Might also make a smaller amount of dough and roll it a bit thinner.

But i do think it made the base softer. which is what it's supposed to do.
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2021, 03:47:54 pm »
Would that work, make balls instead and now you've got potato rolls?

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Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2021, 09:12:06 am »
Would that work, make balls instead and now you've got potato rolls?

Tim

It's more bready than potatoy at the quantity i used.
The potato flakes just gives it a bit more softness. They're also often used in bread loafs to make them softer.
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Offline amwales

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2021, 11:17:00 am »
I'll have to dig up the recipe but 00 flour is the way to go.
We bought a pizza oven over a year, maybe longer and its from a company called ooni it gets VERY hot, pizza cooks so fast you have to watch it.
Pic attached, hopefully...
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2021, 09:03:48 am »
I'll have to dig up the recipe but 00 flour is the way to go.
We bought a pizza oven over a year, maybe longer and its from a company called ooni it gets VERY hot, pizza cooks so fast you have to watch it.
Pic attached, hopefully...

Amazing results. That burnish around the edges is something you really can't get in a normal oven. The heat is too evenly distributed and all the toppings end up looking the same.
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2021, 11:05:35 am »
There's a difference between getting the leopard skin effect on pizza vs just burnt areas. Mostly related to the size of the area you can get the effect on.  You can get small areas in a normal oven at max temp, but you need a higher temp to get it all over the pizza. There needs to be a larger vertical temp gradient than a normal oven can do (without hacks)

TIP: If you want to make yourself feel sad, google image search "Burnt Pizza"

« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 11:15:24 am by Psi »
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Offline Refrigerator

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2021, 05:46:34 pm »
Oh cool a pizza thread, time for me to chip in.
Out of boredom in the uni dorm i've spent a bunch of time experimenting with pizzamaking in the oven. It is just a regular electric oven.
My main goal was to get the underside of the pad to cook properly like on a pizza stone.
I don't go by measurements but rather by feel, which is highly subjective but i try to take the subjectiveness out of it.
How i make a pizza:
1) Get the kind of flour that runs like sand in an hourglass.
2) Put about a cup of flour in a bowl
3) Pour some water in a cup. It should be slightly too much for your dough.
4) Add some sugar and yeast to the water. Not sure if the sugar does anything tbh.
5) Add some salt and a little bit of cooking oil to the flour.
6) Add the yeast water to the flour and start mixing.
7) Your dough should now be too wet, so you keep kneading and adding flour a little bit at a time.
At first your dough will stick to your hands but there will come a point when the dough will pick itself off your hands. It will still be tacky but not sticky.
8 ) Cover up the dough and leave it be for 2 hours. 1 hour is too little and 1,5 feels marginal.
9) Before you start working the dough into shape turn on the bottom heater on your oven and set on max heat.
10) Throw some of the same flour on a clean table and start working your dough into shape.
Streching by hand is fine but i couldn't get consistent thickness so i roll it out with a glass wine bottle.
11) Put the pad on a tray and put your toppings on the pad.
12) Load it into the oven on the bottom level (i don't know what it's called), close to the bottom heater.
13) Keep checking the bottom of the pad occasionally and just before it's done pull the tray out and place it higher up in the oven, one step below the top heater.
14) Turn on the top grill and keep your eyes on the pizza because the moment you look away it will catch fire.

Step 12 gets the bottom browned, step 14 gets the top roasted. What you get is a sort of emulation of a pizza oven.
When it looks good you pull it out and that's it. I've never had problems with my pizzas sticking to the tray, most of the time they just slide right off.
My friends have said that my pizzas are better than what you can get here in pizza places but i disagree.
Every time i make a pizza i notice little imperfections and things to improve in the next iretarion.

Ps: In a uni dorm this certainly beats instant noodles. It's quite funny sometimes when you rock up to the kitchen with a bigass pizza while other pople are making instant noodles or whatever equivalent they come up with.
PPs: but nothing beats that time i walked into the kitchen to find two guys from the robotics course making cotton candy on a homemade cotton candy machine.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 06:19:16 pm by Refrigerator »
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2022, 11:19:14 am »
BURP  ;D

Doing some work on my Car at a mates place for tool reasons and took along some Pizza dough ingredients to point at his Pizza Oven he made a while ago. The Heathen with his fancy oven has been using commercial Pizza bases in it  :palm:

Quick how to make dough lesson got his hands in the bowl before getting in the grease and oil from my car and prepped for post mechanical work.

Raided his garden for some Capsicum, Onions and Tomatoes added a little Bacon and Pepporoni and of my home made Tomato base. Not bad for a first go with real dough.

Ulterior motive if I am going to get an invite again NFW in Hell do I want plastic bases on my wood fired Pizza :-DD Left him a spare mixing bowl, yeast and a recipe.

** Quantity of dough below is for two good sized bases.

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Offline tszaboo

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2022, 02:33:34 pm »
Curious no one has cobbled together an electrically heated steel/stone, a convection oven can probably match the top heat input of a stone oven at significantly lower temperatures, just need to match the bottom then.

That said, I prefer Detroit pizza which needs nothing much special base or oven wise ... shame about the calories.
You mean something like this?

It's like 100 EUR, heats up in 8 minutes, makes a pizza every 10-15 minutes.
The one on the picture is slightly large, mine works great at 30-32cm ones.
 

Offline Refrigerator

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2022, 06:10:12 pm »
BURP  ;D

Doing some work on my Car at a mates place for tool reasons and took along some Pizza dough ingredients to point at his Pizza Oven he made a while ago. The Heathen with his fancy oven has been using commercial Pizza bases in it  :palm:

Quick how to make dough lesson got his hands in the bowl before getting in the grease and oil from my car and prepped for post mechanical work.

Raided his garden for some Capsicum, Onions and Tomatoes added a little Bacon and Pepporoni and of my home made Tomato base. Not bad for a first go with real dough.

Ulterior motive if I am going to get an invite again NFW in Hell do I want plastic bases on my wood fired Pizza :-DD Left him a spare mixing bowl, yeast and a recipe.

** Quantity of dough below is for two good sized bases.
Aw man i should build a pizza oven for myself too.
Here's some pics of what i make in the public kitchen in my uni dorm.
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Offline Caitlin555

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2022, 01:21:41 pm »
I love pizza, trying this tonight!!
 

Offline BrokenYugo

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2022, 03:46:34 pm »
For thin crust I have a thickish (4-5mm) cast iron flat griddle that I put on top rack, crank the oven to max to preheat, then flip to broil (top broil oven) and put the pizza in. Works best if your oven isn't a POS like mine that shuts down if you fire the broiler with the door shut for very long, and a steel plate more like 1/4" or 6mm would probably help too.

 If you're running a gas oven this hard open a window or have an exhaust fan going, or you may end up with a CO problem.
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2022, 08:45:50 am »
I've been using a pizza steel instead of a stone.  the main thing it seems to do is make the bottom of the pizza crisper faster.
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Offline JustMeHere

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2022, 06:07:03 am »
Quick homemade thin pizza crust (30 minutes + baking time):

Use 00 flour (or bread flour, or even white flour)  you want to mix it at about 60%.  When baking flour we use WEIGHT and not VOLUME. 

165 grams of flour
100 grams of water

5 grams of yeast
5 grams of sugar

5 grams of salt
5 grams of olive oil

The yeast, sugar, salt, and olive oil are probably not necessary, but I use them anyway.

Prep your toppins (not in the scope of this post) and start preheating your oven to its max temp.  Shred your cheese now.
You will need a good sized round pizza baking sheet,  I don't use a stone.  I still get good results.  It doesn't really need to be round, but it needs one "flat" surface.

1) Weigh the water out into a bowl.  Use a scale and measure weight.  You want 100g.  Be accurate with this measurement.
2) Add the sugar.  About 5 grams.  Stir the water gently until all sugar is dissolved.
3) Add the yeast.  About 5 grams again.  Also stir this gently.  Wait about 5 minutes for yeast to activate.
4) Add the olive oil.  About 5 grams.  This is for flavor only.  It can make it harder for the next step.
5) Add the flour and  knead it for about 7 minutes in a stand mixer (or by hand, but I can't help you there.  Get the cheap stand mixer).

The dough at this point should have a very smooth surface and be fairly "thick"  It should want to stick to itself more than anything else.

Form up a dough ball.  Be sure to close the bottom off well by a squeezing twisting motion.  Allow the dough ball to rest for about 10 minutes.  It should be covered with plastic, an inverted bowl, or something.

Take your cookie sheet and flip it over.  You will be cooking your pizza on the "bottom of the cookie sheet".   Put a light coat of olive oil on the surface you will use for baking.
Using a dusting of flour, take a rolling pin and roll the flour out into about 12 inches.  The reason you want flip over the cookie sheet is it makes it much easier to roll the dough with the rolling pin.  The dough should be about 1/8th inch thick.

You oven should be just about ready. 

Put your sauce on the dough.  Don't add toppings or cheese yet. 

If you're using an analogue oven, turn the dial just enough to get the oven to "cycle."  If using a digital oven, maybe start it at 455F and bump it to 500F just before this step.  The idea is to get the element to turn on.

(This step should happen right around the 30 minute mark)

Put the pizza dough on the bottom shelf of your oven as close to the bottom element as possible.  Heat the pizza for 5-7 minutes.  You're just trying to get the crust to cook and trying to cook off some of the extra moisture from the sauce.

Remove from the oven, and add the rest of your toppings.  Make sure to have them ready before this step.  (You should not be shedding your cheese now, because you should have done it earlier.)  You want to get this step one in a minute or two. 

Put the pizza back into the oven.  This time put it on the middle rack.  Another 5-7 minutes should do the trick (maybe 10 minutes sometimes).  Watch the cheese.  When it starts to boil in the middle, it's ready.  Be careful not to burn the crust.  A good wide spatula is recommended for scraping the pizza crust from the cookie sheet.

I like to use this page for the ratio calculation.  It also lets you calculate the poolish (or starter, called sourdough on the page):  https://thebaker.science/en/hydration-calculator/
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 06:13:11 am by JustMeHere »
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2022, 11:47:05 am »
I've been using a pizza steel instead of a stone.  the main thing it seems to do is make the bottom of the pizza crisper faster.

Where did you buy yours from? Dedicated pizza steels are expensive, because of the hipster value, even though the actual materials are cheap.
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2022, 01:44:44 pm »
I didn't actually buy it myself, I asked someone to get me one for xmas/bday.

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Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2022, 02:01:45 pm »
I have a stone base but for domestic ovens I prefer the non stick Plates with holes in them for ease of use and cleanup. Not a totally uniform crunchy base but just a better compromise for me at least.
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Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2022, 09:56:50 am »
The pizza stone, and especially the pizza steel, fix a problem I tend to get if I don't use them.
When the pizza base is perfectly cooked it's not strong enough to pickup a slice without it bending over and toppings falling off.  But if i cook the pizza longer or higher temp and make it strong enough to hold a slice then it's overcooked inside.

Using the pizza steel cooks the surface touching it a lot faster and forms a nice crust that holds it all together.
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Offline vk3em

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2022, 10:17:04 pm »
IMO, a pizza steel is the key to getting decent pizza bases in a residential domestic oven.

I was practising TIG welding at the time, so I welded up two sheets of 6mm mild steel into a 12mm plate that fits the oven shelf. It's bloody heavy, and I would go for an 8mm plate if buying a new piece from a steel merchant. You want to make sure it is mild steel, not stainless. Stainless reflects heat so it not good for this application. If your steel comes with complementary rust, you can remove that with some scotch brite or steel wool. Don't remove the mill scale, which is hard, greyish oxide layer on the plate. The mill scale is your friend, will help prevent further rust, and is non stick, and non toxic.

Each oven is different, and my Westinghouse oven has an analog temperature control dial. I experimented with placing the steel at different locations in the oven, and ended up at the top shelf. Experimentation was required to find the right setting on the dial, where the temp control was not linear nor did it max out if you maxed the dial. 250 deg C was the last annotated temp of the front panel, and I found a setting of 280 deg (estimated) gave a plate temp of 305 deg C after 1 hour of pre-heating. Further increase of the dial resulted in reduced temperature, which is not what I expected.

Using a slow fermented pizza dough with 70% hydration, it takes about 6 minutes in total to cook the pizza. 4 minutes on pizza oven mode, 2 minutes on grill mode. We let the oven and plate recover for 10 minutes before baking the next pizza. Enough time to enjoy a glass of wine and talk shit.

Pizza Stones are not suitable at these temperatures. Stone is ideal for wood fired ovens where the temperature is around 400 deg C. At 280 deg C to 300 deg C, the stone is too slow in conducting heat. The pizza steel has a better thermal conduction characteristic at these temps, so the bottom is covered in nice "leopard spots" with a fully cooked base, and top.

My tips:
- Try and find Carputo Red 00 Pizza Flour. It has the best characteristics for a good base.
- Slow fermentation helps : Typically I used 2g yeast for 1 kg of flour @ 70% hydration, 2 hour bulk proof, then into fridge for 24-72 hours. Remove, shape into 250 g balls, and proof again for 4 hours at 25 deg C.
- Don't overload your pizza, and avoid wet ingredients like fresh capsicum
- 70% hydration can be difficult to shape and handle, so at the end of proofing your balls, put them back into the fridge. As they chill down, they become less sticky, and easier to handle, and still cooking up really well.

Cheers
Luke
 

 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2022, 11:55:01 pm »
I have a stone base but for domestic ovens I prefer the non stick Plates with holes in them for ease of use and cleanup. Not a totally uniform crunchy base but just a better compromise for me at least.

I *did* have two ceramic pizza stones, but both cracked last week (weirdly in almost identical places with the same curve) after I placed pizza on them. I imagine the temperature differential between the hot stones and cold pizza/pan was just too much.

I was actually making these, which turned out VERY well:

 

Offline ttx450

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2023, 04:24:05 am »
Small pie...
 

Offline ttx450

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2023, 02:18:02 am »
Usual.. pepperoni, mushrooms and black olives.
 
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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2023, 09:09:06 am »
Does anyone use the bread machine to make pizza dough?

I was using a dough hook. Its alright. But I found something else

if you use the auto sifter scale to sift flour directly into a bread machine cup, and set the bread machine to dough, it makes a nice dough.

I made a pan pizza with this. Its pretty good. I like how it gets rid of the step of letting it rise in an oiled bowl. Also no monitoring like the dough hook. Only one dough transfer onto a floured board. Maybe you can even stretch it in the pan if you make the dough right, mine was a bit wet so I had to flour the bottom . I was able to just roll it down into close the right shape with a roller, so only minimum interaction was needed with the dough by hand to make it fit in the pan.

I don't like the order of the ingrediants though, because the bread machine wants water on the bottom, so you can't weigh your water in the transfer thing because the flour will stick, so you still need to weigh that seperately. But fortunately its just water so you don't need to rinse anything.

So the only measuring tool you need to measure with something you clean after is the oil spoon, and the auto sifter, but that thing improves the quality so much its worth it (put yeast, sugar, salt through it no problem).


IDK if its good enough for a stone pie, the hook might be better, but for a pan pizza... more then good enough

trick I found is to separtate the dough from the edge of the oiled pan and pour extra oil around the perimieter of the pizza like a moat. Came right out of a stainless steel pan with a spatula no problem

I think the bread machine dough was more sticky though, with the dough hook you add more flour to get it right on the hook, with the machine IMO better to let it over hydrate then just put some flour on it after.. nice texture anyway IMO


the stone cooked pizza is less oily but its stressful because you need to assemble it and transfer it quickly to avoid peel problems, and holes are a big deal. with a pan pizza you can load on the sauce and cheese and if there is a hole you can patch it up after its transfered and it will hold, the repair on a stone pizza is perilous.

also get the dough scraper tool and a pizza peel. but i love the auto sifter because I hate measuring powders.

I need some kind of precision oiler too, so I don't need to wash oil spoons.

actually since i wash the sifter every time, I can probobly weigh the water so long I wait like a good 20 minutes to make sure most of it drips off/evaporate. let it warm up to room temp too because its filtered usually from the tap.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2023, 09:28:40 am by coppercone2 »
 

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2023, 03:24:57 am »
food processor works too. But you still need to proof it in a oiled bowl. I think the bread machine is better because it has a heater.

bread machine pizza tasted better then food processor pizza, the crust was less stiff I think,.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2023, 05:02:32 am »
Mix it by hand if you don't own a proper mixer and dough hook. I taught a mate of mine that way a month or so back and it worked out great. Unlike say Pita or some flatbreads you really don't want to overwork the dough to avoid it getting chewy and tough so a bread maker is not ideal and a food processor NEVER.

So you want the dough to come together and be smooth then STOP. Place it in your oiled bowl to prove then knock back and reprove then use it.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2023, 06:17:38 am »
The food processor.. you just check on it a few times while working... the pizza was fine

I think you would need to really work hard to over knead the dough

IMO unwarrented fear! maybe a conspiracy by pizza makers to retain employment.

I need to see how you check the dough via tests to see if there really is some kind of critical problem.

its fast though. That makes dough super fast. Way faster then bread machine or dough hook. I would call it nearly instant in comparison.



For flat bread, I would use little water (low hydration). High hydration = high steam = fluffy. aT LEAST that is a big part of it.


I still like the bread machine the most. The food processor maybe you can get it faster but it really less automated. the bread machine is wizardy if combined with auto hopper





The mistake made with the food processor pizza was stainless steel baking dish, that is meant for BBQ. I feel like comparative studies done by me show that black steel is way superior to polished stainless for frying (with the exception being broiling meat / vegetables, i.e. sous vide post processing), you get more direct infrared and less heating from the pan. If you really wanna 'broil' it with infrared.

Baking on black rusting steel (mild steel?) seems to offer a superior crust when baking. I am waiting on some black steel pizza pans for this purpose, as an alternative to stone pizza.


I also wanna try bread machine french baguette (with post work done).

With simple mayonaise breaded chicken, I had poor results on stainless steel when the recpie works fine with black/dark pans OK in the oven. But I see the test kitchen video broils the pizza.


i also wonder WTF a black pizza stone would do. I need a big ass boron nitride or whatever carbide tank armor segment I guess.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2023, 06:53:38 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2023, 07:09:01 am »
It is hardly an 'unwarranted fear' it is known and factual and has science behind it spanning centuries. Your opinion is simply wrong.

For flat breads depending on the type you deliberately OVERWORK the dough to work the glutens in the dough. Pita is one particular example where you want a harder and more stretchy dough.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2023, 07:13:25 am »
ok if you feel the compulsive urge to food processor it for 15 minutes till the motor melts
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2023, 09:03:22 am »
A breadmaker on dough setting is great for making pizza dough.
Just set it to dough, and 1.5 hours later you have some dough that has been well mixed, risen and then been punched down.
But you really need to put the dough in a covered bowl in the fridge for 1-2 days before using the dough to get a good flavour.

A food processor is not suitable because it mixes way to fast. The dough will get too hot and start to cook in a food processor just from the friction.
A bowl mixer machine with a dough hook is ok because they have a speed control and can be set for a slow mix that wont overheat anything.



FYI, sub out 1/3 cup of the flour with potato flakes for a nicer pizza. 

« Last Edit: December 30, 2023, 09:08:44 am by Psi »
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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2023, 09:20:39 am »
1 minute in a food processor that is pulsed is not gonna heat anything up unless you have the most foul of blade edge and ultra worn surfaces. I saw it today.

Maybe if you have a oilless dough with the most shoddy beat up food processor ever it might get heated up a little bit. But its done quick. a few pulses and thats it.

Food processor blades are easy to sharpen on a diamond plate BTW. I did that today too. They had a bit of a bur on them. 400 grit, 1000 grit, ultra fine grit, followed by the most gentle of stoning with a soft fine oil stone to get rid of anything that you missed on a flat surface and a citric acid bath to repassivate the edge.

I am just saying it works. IDK if I wanna do it again because I find the food processor more difficult to clean then the bread machine or the dough hook. Its the fastest at mixing it but I don't like cleaning it too much. The bread machine silo is the easiest to clean out of all the machines IMO. And there is no lid, irregular surface, etc... you can literarly clean it by poking it with your hand and rinsing it upside down, followed by a easy soap sponge wipe and rinse.  and its not a giant thing like the bread machine bowl or complex plexiglass like the food processor... in that thing you need to scrub the bore with a brush, work around the sharp blade, etc... those food processors are a bit of a process to keep clean lol. Especially if you let the dough rise in there, and of course the splatter will dry out and stick.


I do need to replace the jesus clip on the bread machine though, that is very rusty on the under side. But at least that is a standard part. Food processor is 7 seperate parts, the bread machine is literarly two that are stack fit.


when I tried it by hand I got flour on top of the kitchen fume extractor some how lol



But I am also thinking, I am using a big food processor to make a little pizza. If you have a small food processor I can see that getting hot maybe. Mine is over sized. IDK how well they work if you really pack them to the top. I typically derate the capacity of everything because we just don't get good motors or gears or bearings as consumers. The only one I use to full capacity is the mini chopper, and I just replaced the blade assemble on that because it was cracking and hard to clean. That probobly happened because I used it 80% full for years. But its convenient.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2023, 09:43:30 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2023, 09:51:08 am »
1 minute in a food processor that is pulsed is not gonna heat anything up unless you have the most foul of blade edge and ultra worn surfaces. I saw it today.

Yeah, agreed.  But I cant see how 1 min of pulsing could ever mix the dough properly.
It's not just about mixing the ingredients together, there's a time component where the flour needs to absorb the water and hydrate properly and mixing at higher speed isnt going to make that happen any faster.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2023, 09:53:25 am by Psi »
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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2023, 09:57:54 am »
watch the video, some people even go as little as 20 seconds.

if you have a low hydration dough maybe its more of a problem, but pizza usually want a fairly wet dough so it rises nicely
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2023, 01:54:15 pm »
Yeah, agreed.  But I cant see how 1 min of pulsing could ever mix the dough properly.
Blades go fast.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2023, 11:58:47 pm »
A food processor is just not suitable for this type of dough! The analogue to this would be trying to solder 0402 SMD with a 100W Birko soldering Iron. Can you do it - maybe. Will the result be any good likely NO.

There is very good reasons bakers and people making Pizza use slow speed dough hooks.

Made on one of my Kenwood Chefs and part of a 2x3' slab from the commercial Oven.

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Offline Marco

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2023, 02:51:15 pm »
For really large batches they also use horizontal barrels with cement mixer type bars. Horses for courses.

That said, there's vertical cutter mixers for pizza shops which use blades to go fast. The food processor is the baby version of a VCM.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2023, 02:53:07 pm by Marco »
 

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2023, 09:33:07 pm »
sounds like if the true nature of the arguement is 'is dominos good'
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2023, 10:39:18 pm »
For really large batches they also use horizontal barrels with cement mixer type bars. Horses for courses.

That said, there's vertical cutter mixers for pizza shops which use blades to go fast. The food processor is the baby version of a VCM.

Are you sure you are not confusing a dough divider/rounder?

Even whole bag (50-60kg of flour) mixers still run a slow speed hook.
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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2023, 10:46:12 pm »
i think I seen that machine in korean street food videos

 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2023, 10:53:46 pm »
Falls into the category as already stated just because it can do it it doesn't mean you should.

The blades on these are going to toughen the dough period full stop!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2023, 11:04:54 pm by beanflying »
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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2023, 11:39:45 pm »
Quote
But I cant see how 1 min of pulsing could ever mix the dough properly.
you can mix dough up in less than a minute easily by hand with just a boring old knife,no power tools required
 

Offline JustMeHere

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2024, 01:56:33 am »
Regular electric oven...

Learn to use the burners to "toast"

 

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2024, 04:16:06 am »
SORRY I DONT LIKE THE LOOK OF THAT PIZZA >:(
 

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2024, 10:49:34 am »
how come you leave the rose mary so long. I had a errant piece of rosemary that slipped out of a sauce poke me in the throat.  :--

imo that is like eating a cactus
 

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2024, 07:40:18 am »
i highly recommend trying a rather wet pizza base in a cast iron pan with lots of oil then frying the pan after baking for a little bit to toast up the bottom. amazing  :clap:



worry about the top looking perfect, then take it out to finish on the stovetop

I just did it with regular jar sauce and it works also a cheese mix that had smoked gouda and provolone with fresh mozzerella and grated reggiano worked fine. I added a big pinch of baking soda to do the dough for no reason at all with no ill effects but the pizza is ill ;D

also after you let it rise in the pan it might crowd the edges a little bit, don't use your fingers  to pull the dough back because the dough likes to fall, get a thin narrow piece of metal like a butter knife that is well grease and scrape it down the edges , that way you can get your cheese in there with minimal dough distrubance. I also recommend shaking the breaker of sauce over the pizza while its tilted to splatter it evenly around the pizza so there is minimum spreading required. But if you put a large amount of cheese it will fill in the valley formed around the perimiter of the pizza if you do it wrong. Probobly too for this recpie after you grate your cheese I recommend laying it out on a cutting board to shorten it to get more of a cheese gravel so it fills the perimiter better.

Since it has a long rise time for toppings like mushroom and bacon you can bake them on a sheet while the pizza is rising to partially pre-cook them and then let it cool down before handling + soak your pan

Start your monitoring at 21 minutes and pull it as soon as the top looks good. Setting 60% on a induction hobb gave me a golden crust without burning after 4 minutes. I also used the butter knife to pop the edge of the pizza out of the pan before frying on the stove top. I used a brand name large cast iron pan (16 inch?) for the bake mold.

Mine was in there for 28 minutes and it was a bit too long but this will depend on your cheese mix, I was paranoid about the fresh mozzerella component of the mixture (its moisture factoring in the moisture of the liquid sauce I used), its probobly not the best for this pizza. But even so, its extremely delicious with 1/4 of the pizza being really really filling.  8)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 08:02:18 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2024, 06:35:58 am »
I have improved my pizza dough from previous post in this thread.
It's now closer to what you'd get when buying a pizza from a pizza restaurants.

Here's the new recipe.

325g   Italian pizza flour (00)
50 g  Potato flakes
50 g  Semolina flour
255g Water
8g sugar
8g salt
13g olive oil
3/4 tsp instant yeast

Changes from previous are..
Added Potato flakes (Makes it softer, more like a fastfood pizza and less like bread)
Added Semolina flour (Helps gluten development and more crispy outer crust
55% to 60% hydration.   (Needed to account for the changes above)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2024, 06:37:55 am by Psi »
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2024, 06:53:28 am »
For similar reasons to this I have tended to not use the Italian 00 flours as it is to hard. Local Aussie Plain White Flour gives a good texture and crunch with less fuss.

Bread flours are also a nono for the same reasons.

** should mention I am not a fan of thin crust Pizza where a more chewy dough the 00 gives might be desirable for some.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2024, 10:15:13 am by beanflying »
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Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2024, 11:11:46 am »
I had to much reduce the hydration to get 00 flour to come out right.
But once i did that i loved it
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2024, 03:48:24 am »


I tried the pizza base recipe from this video on the weekend. Was probably one of the best pizza's I've made. The extra olive oil produced an amazing result. Only needs about 1 hour of proofing/rising time before it's ready to bake.

Highly recommended!

INGREDIENTS:
450g Type 00 Flour
5g Dry instant yeast
4.5g salt
300g/ml warm water
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 03:50:06 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline PsiTopic starter

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Re: Pizza Bases
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2024, 07:09:57 am »
Here's a pizza dough that is very unique and worth a try. Just 2 ingredients.

Makes a 12 inch pizza

1 + 1/2 cups Self-Rising Flour   (It has to be self-rising not normal flour)
1 cup Plain Greek Yogurt

mix and knead together into dough then let it rest for 15min,
Then just make your pizza as per normal
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 07:12:25 am by Psi »
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