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General => General Technical Chat => Cooking => Topic started by: MikeK on November 17, 2022, 01:53:41 am
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I have a small CI pan that I'm trying to re-season. I don't think the first attempt took, or it came undone...I forget since it was a while ago. I cooked some Canadian bacon in it the other day and had to scrape out the bits that stuck to the pan. Hence the recent re-seasoning attempt. So I seasoned it in the oven today and it's splotchy. I'm wondering if I need to thoroughly clean the pan before seasoning...If there's something on there from the [ahem] ham that's prevented a good seasoning?
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I literally just watched a video yesterday on this, as I'm in the process of stripping and re-seasoning my pans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLyhtNT4Vw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLyhtNT4Vw)
Andy is an experienced chef from Melbourne.
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When I need to re season a pan, I usually soak it in lye to strip it, then vinegar if it is rusty, then I dry it and coat it in avocado oil (grapeseed works good too, just don't use vegetable oil or butter). Then, open every window and disconnect the smoke detector and slowly (to not warp the pan) raise the temp until the oil starts smoking. Continue heating until the smoking from the bottom subsides as the shinyness of the oil disappears. Then, let the pan cool enough to add some more oil and fry potato slices. When they stick, scrape the pan with wood only. If the stuff sticks so bad that you cannot scrape it off without damaging the seasoning, get it hot enough to turn to carbon and repeat. Once or twice with the potato and nothing will stick, not even scrambled eggs.
Maintaining the pan is worth talking about too. Don't use soap. I've heard it a million times that the soap today no longer contains lye and that it can be used on cast iron, just don't. Use water only when washing the pan, if anything sticks, scrape off with wood, dry immediately with towel and lightly coat with oil and heat to drive off moisture. Wipe off excess oil and thats it. In my mind, the biggest misconception with cast iron care is that seasoning refers to the non-stick nature of the proper finish. That may be true, but it is only half the story. Seasoning is also something that tastes good, like a stovetop coffee pot that has never been washed. Seasoning = flavor, and soap strips that and leaves you with just enough seasoning to make you think it works that way.
When oil approaches it's smoke temperature, be aware that it will make its way into and onto surfaces around the kitchen you didn't think it could. If you have a good source of dust, the oil will rapidly become evident on the tops of stuff as a brown goo, even if it's near the ceiling or further from the stove. It is best to do that outside unless you enjoy cleaning often. I've seen what years of that built up can do in places people don't care.
Another option for stripping the pans if you don't like lye is using oven cleaner and putting the pan in a garbage bag overnight.
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A little bit of science is always welcome in the kitchen:
https://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/
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Thanks guys. I thought it was strange that I got good results on another pan with canola oil, but this one...there are blotches that didn't season at all.
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FWIW, this is an image of the splotchy pan.
And I just checked my other pan (I don't use these often) and what had been nice seasoning done with canola oil is now sticky...so canola is indeed crap.
[attachimg=1]
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Thats rust. start over. Strip with degreaser overnight, rinse, then into vinegar until the rust spots come off (don't use an abrasive ever, it burnishes the surface and stops the carbon from entering the pores of the metal). Once the rust is off, start the seasoning process again.
If you are using a gas stove, heat the cast iron on the burner right side up before putting it in the oven. A cold pan upsidedown in an oven will condense water vapor from combustion and rust the pan before it can season.
Vegetable oil, canola, and a few others turn to goo and can eventually go rancid if the pan sits long term with no use. Use avocado or grapeseed oil only when seasoning (and oiling after a wash) and that won't happen.
The best thing for a cast iron pan (for the finish and the flavor) is to use it frequently! Also, NEVER use metal utensils in the pan.
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Last I saw Avocado oil industry made the EVO industry look honest, it's either fake or rancid from the shelf.
Never tried grapeseed oil, but linseed and normal sunflower oil didn't work well for me. I just settled on EVO, since I always have it and the smoke doesn't smell offensive. The hood doesn't catch everything.
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It also looks like you used too much oil on the first coat. After you oil it, wipe off the excess with a dry paper towel then into the oven. The oil should be thin enough to handle the pan without getting your hands covered in oil. After the first coat in the oven is done, do the rest on the stove top and wipe it with a paper towel with a little oil (like the towel you wiped the pan with first) as the oil is carbonizing. You will notice a color change as it turns to carbon. You get that far, then cook potatoes (they will stick and thats good at first, starch is a good carbon source).
Tips for cast iron potatoes or hash browns: Slice, rinse with cold water until it remains clear (no starch coming off), then thoroughly dry the taters and place them in a hot pan with a couple tablespoon of avocado oil (don't skip the preheating of the pan). The reason for the avocado oil or grapeseed oil is that it has a very high smoke temp. Better for curing, better for searing, better flavor too, and it won't turn to goo and rot after hanging on the wall.
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Last I saw Avocado oil industry made the EVO industry look honest, it's either fake or rancid from the shelf.
I've never had an issue here in the US. However, they do want $22 for a 1.5L bottle, so it better not be rancid.
The brand I buy is called Tropical Plantation, one of the cheaper walmart brands.
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Thats rust. start over. Strip with degreaser overnight, rinse, then into vinegar until the rust spots come off (don't use an abrasive ever, it burnishes the surface and stops the carbon from entering the pores of the metal). Once the rust is off, start the seasoning process again.
Full disclosure: When I first got this pan I didn't like how rough the casting was and how poor the [now factory] seasoning was done. So I used an angle grinder with an abrasive wheel to remove the sharp flashing from casting and to somewhat smooth the cooking surface. I then cleaned with dish soap, dried it, then dried it better in the oven, and started that first seasoning. I wasn't satisfied with that first seasoning which prompted this recent seasoning.
What degreaser should I use that won't be toxic? And then wipe it with vinegar? I'm not going to buy enough vinegar to soak the whole pan.
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I don't think any degreasers are toxic in the sense that most people think of. Sure, lye will strip the oil from your skin and cause chemical burns if not rinsed off immediately, but you won't die if you taste a single grain of it either. None of the degreasers are dangerous with respect to food safety after being rinsed off. That said, I think every degreaser has the potential to blind you, burn your skin, etc. Treat them all with the same respect.
Which one is the safest to use? Oven cleaner. Get the kind that sprays as a foam, coat the pan, then put in a garbage bag. Reapply the oven cleaner every 6 hours for one day.
Once you have it stripped, it's rusting, so hurry. You need to get the rust off quickly and then get it oiled (and at least heated to 100°C) as quickly as possible.
If you do not plan to submerge the entire pan in vinegar, don't use vinegar. the part above the vinegar will rust very quick. Electrolysis with vinegar and water would be my next suggestion (which will help undo the damage from the angle grinder too). But, since you already damaged it, I would just take oiled steel wool to it. Not something I usually recommend, but the damage is already done.
Remember, be quick, its rusting the second it hits the air. Get it oiled, drive off the moisture and preheat the pan on the stove top and rub the oil around with a paper towel, remove all excess oil when the pan is hot to the touch, then immediately into the preheated oven with it.
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Degreasers? A brillo pad and elbow grease is all that's needed,then a bit of coking oil of your choice, in this instance castrol gtx isnt recommended,swill the oil around the pan,then place it upside down on a baking tray in a hot oven.Go out for at least an hour to avoid the noise of your smoke detector.On returning home ear protection and breathing apparatus maybe required.Turn off the heat,open the oven,reset the smoke alarm and wait until things have cooled down before removing pan from oven
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Here's the real secret... If a hot cast iron pan doesn't easily wipe clean with warm tap water on a rag, it needs help, just heat the pan until whatever is sticking turns to carbon and smoke and knock off the remaining chunks with a wood spatula. Then oil it and you're done. It is a smoky process that stinks up the house, but you will not have to do it more than a couple times before absolutely nothing will stick to it. Just resist the urge to scrape and scrub when cleaning it and that pan will be the best one in the house. That pan will be a pain in your ass for a good week, but after that, it will probably become your favorite and you'll never need to do this again. Pretend you have nothing but a camp fire, a rag, a wood stick, oil, and river water when caring for it and you and that pan will get along nicely!
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Well now, this is an unexpected gem of a thread.
I got a pan (old timer) I've been needing to re-season (has splotching evident.)
I signed up here today never thinking I'd end up reading a thread about iron pan seasoning.
The post previous to mine (antenna) sounds spot on to everything I've ever been told about using and maintaining iron cookware.
I also have a modern (lodge logic) cast iron pan that has a rough surface (just the imprint of the sand I suppose) and I asked someone else once what to do, and he said use an angle grinder like MikeK above.
I didn't see anyone object here, but is this really OK to do? antenna? I does that hold for your advice of never using an abrasive?
The good (old timer) pan I inherited that just needs a re-season is nice and smooth, almost like black glass. The lodge logic pan is quite rough and I don't believe anything short of grinding that off might create the surface similar to the older inherited pan.
Appreciate the input everyone!
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I'm not convinced that an angle grinder with an abrasive wheel was/is a bad idea. Lodge *used* to do more finishing of their pans than they currently do. Find old Lodge stuff...that's not all wear. And some higher priced CI must be using abrasive given the smoother finish.
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A conical flap disc should do it, people have done it with orbital sanders too.
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So it's just a thing with all lodge pans now. Thanks for confirming.
Maybe it doesn't matter. It works, just that things like eggs really get "hung up" in the little valleys.... Fish is no problem.
I got it as a gift some years back and of course, it just had a light coating of whatever to keep it from rusting in stock, but the thing that always bothered me was how rough the cooking surface was.
After I got it, went ahead and did what the instructions said for seasoning (and watched a yt video or two) and its "seasoned" but compared to the older large pan I have more recently inherited, the cooking surface is like sandpaper.
I will acquire a conical flap wheel, and maybe after that process, try an orbital to get it down a little finer.
<Tips hat to thread participants/> Thanks again to all!
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I have several new Lodge cast iron pieces. Don’t personally think roughness should matter too much. Key, in my opinion, is to make sure it’s plenty hot, especially for foods like eggs or fish. Usually I put the burner on full blast, and the instant I see the pan start to smoke a little, I know it’s ready, and I turn it down to the normal cooking flame. Too cool and yes the egg will stick every time.
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I have Lodge, Griswold, Wagner, and even a few Bobby Flay pans. They range from really smooth to very rough. The Bobby Flay pans are the roughest I have and are also the ones I use most. The roughness helps retain carbon and seasoning. The main thing cast iron has going for it, in general, is the thermal mass that doesn't immediately cool when setting a thick piece of meat in it. The smoothness is of little concern.
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The smoothness is of little concern.
I thought I was helping things...Oh well.
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The smoothness is of little concern.
I thought I was helping things...Oh well.
After you get it to your desired smoothness with sandpaper or whatever, give it a quick etch with muriatic acid. It will really help with carbon/seasoning retention.
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In my opinion stripping/re-seasoning cast iron is an extreme measure for badly mistreated (rusted!) cookware.
If the non-stick coating is broken or you see a little bit of brown, all that's needed is to build up an oil film over that area. This isn't a polyurethane varnish: it can be repaired without removing and starting from scratch.
The main important thing is that the "seasoning" or oil film requires an oil that can polymerize, so it must contain some polyunsaturated fatty acids. For example, olive oil is ok, but walnut or flax oil will work better. Coconut oil or animal fat will not work. Once it reaches its smoke point, the oil quickly reacts and binds with iron.
Better to prevent any problems in the first instance, however. So if you don't want to spend hours repairing cast iron pans, don't use any salt or acid in them. Especially tomatoes. If you cook with olive oil, it builds up the film slightly automatically.
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I have several new Lodge cast iron pieces. Don’t personally think roughness should matter too much. Key, in my opinion, is to make sure it’s plenty hot, especially for foods like eggs or fish. Usually I put the burner on full blast, and the instant I see the pan start to smoke a little, I know it’s ready, and I turn it down to the normal cooking flame. Too cool and yes the egg will stick every time.
This I feel is the main difference with real non stick, teflon/"ceramic" lets you be lazy with temperature.
I just seared some tuna for tuna melt straight from frozen, starting in a cold non stick pan ... I'd not dare to do that with carbon steel. With steak sure, but not with fish.
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So if you don't want to spend hours repairing cast iron pans, don't use any salt or acid in them. Especially tomatoes. If you cook with olive oil, it builds up the film slightly automatically.
Agreed on not using acid/tomato, but salt, I use salt heavily in my cast iron with no negative effect at all. Every steak I marinade gets salt, my potatoes get covered with salt and pepper right in the pan, no issues at all.
I've also have no issue witheggs or fish (mostly northern pike or halibut). Every time I buy a fancy "non-stick" pan, teflon or ceramic, even using silicone utensils in it, the eggs will stick badly in less than a year. In my cast iron pans, the eggs dont stick at all. I would not put fish in carbon steel either, but I do cook fish exclusively with cast iron. I might put some halibut in the rough bottom Bobby Flay pan tonight. Those Bobby Flay pans are way thicker than any of the older name brands. I was skeptical at first, but I really like them now.
One time I bought a ceramic pan from walmart because the packaging showed thoroughly cooked egg and cheese sliding right out. And sure, for the first week, it was that way. About the 5th time using it, the eggs stuck so badly that I returned it to walmart (by smuggling it into the store under my coat covered in the egg that stck on and hung it back on the shelf with the new ones that had the false claim :)).
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Every time I buy a fancy "non-stick" pan, teflon or ceramic, even using silicone utensils in it, the eggs will stick badly in less than a year.
I understand that might be down to the oil used, or the method of using it. Our main non-stick ceramic started getting sticky after a bit, and once I realised it was probably a coating of burned oil, I gave it a jolly good scrub and it's been much better since. In fact, I'd already bought the replcement but that's now hiding since this one has a new lease of life.
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I've been using nothing but cast iron for frying and fair bit of baking the past 6 years or so. I have a set of about a dozen pans ranging in size from #3 to #10 with a dutch oven in the mix. The age of the pieces range from nearly 100 years (a Wapak) to a Lodge bought from the factory website within the past few years (a buffalo nickel design pan).
Here are the things I've found, YMMV:
- canola is great for seasoning. Chances are pretty good you already have it. If you don't, it's cheap, easy to find, and works well as a general purpose cooking oil. There's no need to get an expensive boutique oil for seasoning.
- splotchy seasoning is fine unless the looks bother you (which is a completely legit concern)
- smooth vs "textured" surface doesn't matter much. By "textured" I mean of the modern Lodge variety - I'm not sure if you get a pan that is shark skin rough if that will still perform well or not. I actually prefer the performance of the Lodge textured pans over my smooth pans, but only by a very small amount. I use both regularly.
- for cleaning, I find that hot tap water and a good nylon scrubber (but not the super abrasive scotchbrite) handles my cleanup more than 95% of the time:
- wipe out the major stuff and the majority of any oil left in the pan
- give it good rinse with hot tap water and scrub with the nylon pad
Usually that's it. Sometimes a little elbow grease is called for. If it gets to be too much elbow grease, I have a chain mail scrubber that takes care of things, but I only have to call on that maybe once every couple of months.
I never clean the pans until they are cool enough to handle without protection; doing otherwise seems to be asking for trouble. I never have to boil water in them to get them cleaned (OK, maybe I've done that once or twice). And putting them on a heated burner to dry? Why? Wipe them down with a towel and let air drying take care of the rest.
I've seen countless posts on r/castiron where someone was drying their pan on a burner, forgot about it and ended up scorching the seasoning off. While that's not a huge deal (the pan can be reseasoned), there's just no reason for it. And maybe someone (your kid? maybe even you!) picks up the pan without realizing that it's hot and burns themselves.
Speaking of which - make sure the pot holders/oven mitts/kitchen towel you use to pick up a hot cast iron pan isn't damp! I've learned that lesson the hard way a couple times. My wife always puts silicone handle covers on the pan when she's cooking. I don't like them - they feel too loosey-goosey.
My big r/castiron heresy: I've found that cooking bacon isn't a great seasoning method. If anything, cooking bacon is actually hard on whatever seasoning is on the pan. I also find that the best way to cook bacon in cast iron (and probably other types of pans) is "low and slow". I put the pan at a temperature where the bacon just begins to sizzle and let it cook at that temperature until it's done. The hardest part for me is that I have a difficult time recognizing when it's done. I check and think it needs a little more time, check again and think it still needs a little more time, then I check and it's gone too far - way too crispy. I'm not sure what it'll take for me to learn to take it out before it gets to that point. One day...
As far as the foods that do the best to add/improve seasoning? Breads. Or other baked goods (coffee cake is my #1). Hands down.
There are only two things where I find cast iron inferior to other types of frying pans:
- heat distribution - cast iron definitely gets hot spots. You learn to manage (move the food around in the pan, move the pan around on the burner, and/or pre-heat the pan in the oven).
- cast iron pans are *heavy*. Especially when you get to larger than #8 frying pans.
In spite of those two deficiencies, I don't see myself moving back to aluminum or steel pans (non-stick or otherwise).
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I never clean the pans until they are cool enough to handle without protection
Being frugal i put cold water into the pan and use the heat in the pan to heat the water whilst scrubbing it with a nail brush,then replace the pan on the turned off heat to dry,by the time i get to making the after grub coffee the pans dry and ready for a minute drizzle of oil,the heat in the pan helps the the oil spread
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I would not put fish in carbon steel either, but I do cook fish exclusively with cast iron.
I do, but not putting it in cold.
Hell I could put in a frozen fillet in the cold Tefal pan and start it without oil and it still wouldn't stick. The disposability and the helper chemicals for PTFE coating in the production stage are unfortunate, but that's just a small grain on the giant pile of environmental side effects of the comforts I will not give up alone (I would vote for banning widespread use of most forever chemicals, but actual voting is different than voting with my wallet).
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Today I broke my own rule and cooked an omelette with salt and tomatoes...
So I took notes on how to repair the oil film. I used a teaspoon of avocado oil (smoke point 480°F) and spread it around using medium-low heat. According to my U5855A, emissivity set for carbon (0.95), the temperature of the pan is 360°F. At this temperature there is no visible smoke, but the odor of the oil is very "roasty" and oxidized. I used a stainless spatula with a square face (az link (http://"https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00B16K98U/"), although mine is slotted). One advantage, I feel, of cast iron pans is that you can use metal tools without fear of permanently destroying them, since the oil film can always be repaired. The hot pan was tooled using the oil for about 30 minutes until the surface was smooth, black, and slippery. After it cools, the excess oil can be wiped off with a rag and discarded.
This is in a 8" skillet at least 50 years old; the foundry is unknown to me.
Avocado oil has about 14% polyunsaturated fatty acids, so it is suitable for forming the film.