Author Topic: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery  (Read 88631 times)

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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2014, 07:10:41 pm »
I don't recall him being in this forum or answering anything at all.
Perhaps not this exact page, but here none the less.
http://www.eevblog.com/2014/07/28/graphene-lithium-ion-capacitor-kickstarter-bs/
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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2014, 07:17:03 pm »
That's not really fair since he's not in the US.
Well, we don't really know that, do we?  Since he(?) has chosen to obfuscate his location.
I don't get the out of the US part, he says he is in Newton, KS.
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Offline edavid

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #202 on: December 19, 2014, 07:27:52 pm »
That's not really fair since he's not in the US.
Well, we don't really know that, do we?  Since he(?) has chosen to obfuscate his location.
I don't get the out of the US part, he says he is in Newton, KS.

We were talking about forum member mojo-chan, who is in the UK.
 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #203 on: December 19, 2014, 08:08:43 pm »
I don't recall him being in this forum or answering anything at all.
Perhaps not this exact page, but here none the less.
http://www.eevblog.com/2014/07/28/graphene-lithium-ion-capacitor-kickstarter-bs/

Still not anything from the project creator... that link is to Dave's rant on this project.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #204 on: December 19, 2014, 08:17:52 pm »
Still not anything from the project creator... that link is to Dave's rant on this project.

Look again - Shawn makes an appearance several times in the comments on that "rant" page.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #205 on: December 20, 2014, 02:42:56 pm »
The problem with Kickstarter is that most people only lose a few quid so don't care. The overall scale of the fraud is substantial though. It's a great way to rob people. Apathy let's them get away with it.
But again, that isn't any different than panhandlers/beggars on the street corner. Some (perhaps most?) of them may really be destitute and homeless, but local news reports have revealed that many make hundreds/thousands of bucks/quid/whatever a bit at a time from hundreds of people, and then drive home in a car probably nicer than yours.  Spinning a technical-sounding scam and posting photos on Kickstarter is just a different skill-set than standing on the pavement with a cardboard sign.

I have contributed to more than one Kickstarter (etc.) campaign that never went anywhere. But you are right, since I gambled only a few $$, I knew going in that I may never see anything from it.  That is only a small-scale version of people buying shares in start-up companies on the world's stock markets. It is a risk where you clearly know that you could lose everything with nothing to show for it.
 

Online Marco

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #206 on: December 20, 2014, 06:58:07 pm »
The pan handler doesn't enter into a contract to deliver you goods.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #207 on: December 20, 2014, 07:15:15 pm »
Well, actually investors do have some protection. It's illegal under SEC law to make knowingly false statements, such as having a prototype where one does not exist. In such a case investors would be able to sue the company or individual, and the individual could be liable for imprisonment.

But Kickstarter offers no such protection, except the possibility of being  negligent in vetting the projects (despite their claims that backers are responsible.) This has yet to be tested in a court of law, but I imagine the next large project which fails to deliver may  be interesting... the problem is, it's lots of people losing $50 or $100 maybe - hardly worth criminal action, unless a class action can be formed.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 07:16:48 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #208 on: December 20, 2014, 08:02:18 pm »
Quote
the problem is, it's lots of people losing $50 or $100 maybe

I think a significant problem is that most people just don't know how to go about suing someone for non-performance or whatever. It is actually quite a difficult thing to do even if you have an idea of what you should be doing, and if you start out without a clue there is little chance you will get anywhere. That's for a dead cert win in your local jurisdiction, so imagine this kind of thing on foreign shores...
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #209 on: December 20, 2014, 08:55:00 pm »
The pan handler doesn't enter into a contract to deliver you goods.
That online click-box isn't worth the paper its written on.
 

Online Marco

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #210 on: December 20, 2014, 10:22:40 pm »
Maybe ... what ever happened to that Washington state consumer protection lawsuit? (I tried to look myself but the court records website, dw.courts.wa.gov, seems inaccessible ... at least to me, downforeveryoneorjustme says it's up.)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 10:25:55 pm by Marco »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #211 on: December 20, 2014, 10:25:26 pm »
This'll be interesting... the Zap 'N' Go project raised almost $115,000, well beyond it's goal:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/zap-go-first-graphene-supercapacitor-charger

I present the Crowd Funding Hardware Bingo Fun Time!

 

Offline matseng

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #212 on: December 21, 2014, 02:26:40 am »
"The ZAP&GO loses only 20% of it's power in 72 hours (about the same rate as a lithium battery)."   

Doesn't lithium batteries discharge about 2% per *month*? So their figure must be one on the very first-gen experimental batteries in a lab many years ago then :-)
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #213 on: December 22, 2014, 12:09:47 pm »
Quote
just call the FBI and report fraud

How would I do that from here in the UK? What are the chances of some two-bit scam getting the full resources of the FBI focused on it even were I a US citizen?
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #214 on: December 22, 2014, 12:34:35 pm »
Quote from: dunkemhigh
How would I do that from here in the UK? What are the chances of some two-bit scam getting the full resources of the FBI focused on it even were I a US citizen?
[/quote
As I have mentioned many pages ago, Interpol considers this a lottery. Perhaps a method for foreign users. At least a phone call or email will help in determining what remedies are available.
http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Financial-crime/Fraud/Lottery-fraud
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 12:37:37 pm by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #215 on: December 22, 2014, 12:47:19 pm »
I don't see that the link provided suggests Kickstarter projects are in any way similar to a lottery fraud. For starters, there is no suggestion of a huge win. It is, in fact, not at all a lottery, nor is it sold as such.

I also can't see Interpol wasting their already stretched manpower on something small like this. Their remedy appears to be to tell you ways of ensuring you won't get sucked in, but going after all the scammers who have made off with a few thousand bucks is likely beyond or beneath them.

 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #216 on: December 22, 2014, 03:31:45 pm »
How would I do that from here in the UK? What are the chances of some two-bit scam getting the full resources of the FBI focused on it even were I a US citizen?

That's why I keep asking if someone from the US has done it yet. Even so, a carefully worded email from the UK might work.

The FBI concerns itself with all crimes that cross state borders, like this one. Magnitude is irrelevant, even if it is only a few thousand dollars. If someone where to post all the evidence that has been presented in this thread to them it should be fairly easy for them to check a few records without leaving the comfort of their office. It's fairly easy to trace money as it moves around. Payment from Amazon/Kickstarter, transfer to wife's bank account, spending on resources for her new company.

Your personal vendetta against this particular case is beyond my comprehension, you didn't invest, or if you did you took your money away, but you are determined to keep pointing the finger and calling witch so that someone else does the dirty work for you, advocate of the masses.
 
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #217 on: December 22, 2014, 04:27:49 pm »
Jeeze, no need to blow it out of all proportion. I was just responding to questions people kept asking. I didn't even take hand over any money.

Why resurrect the thread with:
Any updates? Is he in jail yet?

Or make comments like:
Surely this is well into the territory of fraud now, and should be reported to the police.

Sounds personal to me.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #218 on: December 22, 2014, 04:59:04 pm »
Maybe he just doesn't like seeing scammers walk away with the money without repercussion?
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #219 on: December 22, 2014, 05:37:22 pm »
Quote
Your personal vendetta against this particular case

I think this case is, as he says, as good an example as we're likely to get of one that could be prosecuted, so it makes sense to push this one rather than wait for one nearly as good, or the one after that, or after that...

Maybe he could be a leetle more diplomatic in phrasing, though :)
 

Offline tom66

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #220 on: December 22, 2014, 06:28:59 pm »
Sounds personal to me.

Sounds like he can't stand Yet Another Crowdfunding Fraud...

...neither can I, but I'm not going to bug the police over it because I don't think they'll bother.

It'll probably be like the 1980 Video Game crash - Atari's ET (a dreadfully bad game) is widely speculated to have caused it. They'll be a "crowdfunding crash" as many people simultaneously lose hope in the platform.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 06:40:50 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #221 on: December 23, 2014, 12:33:24 am »
How would I do that from here in the UK? What are the chances of some two-bit scam getting the full resources of the FBI focused on it even were I a US citizen?

That's why I keep asking if someone from the US has done it yet. Even so, a carefully worded email from the UK might work.

The FBI concerns itself with all crimes that cross state borders, like this one. Magnitude is irrelevant, even if it is only a few thousand dollars. If someone where to post all the evidence that has been presented in this thread to them it should be fairly easy for them to check a few records without leaving the comfort of their office. It's fairly easy to trace money as it moves around. Payment from Amazon/Kickstarter, transfer to wife's bank account, spending on resources for her new company.

Your personal vendetta against this particular case is beyond my comprehension, you didn't invest, or if you did you took your money away, but you are determined to keep pointing the finger and calling witch so that someone else does the dirty work for you, advocate of the masses.

I don't think one needs to have been scammed to have "skin in the game", even if just tangentially.  It sucks seeing someone screw over a lot of people, and it compromises the integrity of the crowdfunding platform for us all, whether we're potential backers or potential creators. 
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #222 on: December 23, 2014, 12:47:51 am »
How would I do that from here in the UK? What are the chances of some two-bit scam getting the full resources of the FBI focused on it even were I a US citizen?

That's why I keep asking if someone from the US has done it yet. Even so, a carefully worded email from the UK might work.

The FBI concerns itself with all crimes that cross state borders, like this one. Magnitude is irrelevant, even if it is only a few thousand dollars. If someone where to post all the evidence that has been presented in this thread to them it should be fairly easy for them to check a few records without leaving the comfort of their office. It's fairly easy to trace money as it moves around. Payment from Amazon/Kickstarter, transfer to wife's bank account, spending on resources for her new company.

Unfortunately, despite it being their job... I doubt the FBI would get involved.   They are somewhat like the Supreme Court in that they have more work than they have resources, so they most definitely pick and choose where to spend those resources, often making decisions that baffle the casual observer.

The best bet would probably be the Attorney General in the state Shawn West is located in, as well as the prosecutor at the courthouse that has jurisdiction over his home address.  Both are political offices and usually prosecutors and AG's have political ambitions and anything that will make them look good - especially something that will get a lot of press coverage - is something they will be on like white on rice.

It would probably also be helpful for anyone whose been ripped off to contact the police department in his home town.  If one does it, they will likely consider it a civil matter.  If they get dozens of people saying they were ripped off, they are more likely to investigate and/or hand it over to the county prosecutor to investigate bringing charges. 

A couple of other effective methods might be to compile a "complaint" with all possible supporting documentation and then send that to his work, to the owner/President.  Since, IIRC, he divulged where he worked, his actions tarnish his employer to an extent, and if he were my employee, I'd compel him to either fix the situation or find somewhere else to work.

And last but not least, buying a domain with his name in it and putting up a website that details what has happened would be perhaps the most effective thing.  He's posted pictures and details of his life and his facebook page, so putting as much identifying info along with the complaint on a website that will start coming up first when someone searches for him is going to provide a TON of pressure to get the issue resolved and get the site down.
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Offline hamster_nz

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #223 on: December 23, 2014, 09:27:01 am »
The best policy is to assume good faith.

What? Like when somebody asks for a few dollars to help build a battery that recharges in 30 seconds?

(Actually to agree with miguelvp your posts do read as though you you have a really really big axe to grind with Mr West, but don't want to do the work yourself)
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: 30 second recharging Rechargeable Battery
« Reply #224 on: December 23, 2014, 04:09:25 pm »
My beef is more with Kickstarter in general, even though the two projects I have backed both delivered. I just find this case interesting, especially since some of the backers and the guy himself are/were here. Hay oh, looks like he got away with it.

I'm with you - the platforms are the most guilty party in these scams, because they are the only ones with the power to stop them either by doing due diligence, or giving the potential backers the tools and information to do their own due diligence, or by at least making backers aware that they have done NO vetting at all on the project or it's claims and do not know that anything stated in the proposal is true or even possible. 

Then they should compel creators to give updates and either have them agree to a contract for refund to backers in the even of failure to complete, failure to update or failure to respond to inquiries... or better yet (which they'd never do), disburse the funds on a schedule as milestones are met.

I realize KS and IGG don't want to insert themselves into the project because then they have liability, but right now they don't even give backers the tools to do that vetting themselves, so they are complicit in the scamming.
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