Author Topic: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com  (Read 21508 times)

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Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2015, 09:15:44 pm »
I can take chips from famous companies too, it does not mean I will arrive at a design that has claimed performance. So far there is nothing to confirm any of your claims about quality of the product.

Show us some captured traces under different conditions and all this kind of stuff.

But again, at that price, it is not going to happen. You can buy a real scope for $300 designed by people, who use correct USB connectors, and work with it, instead of doing web-design.
Alex
 

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2015, 09:23:29 pm »
Traditional scope is piece of hardware that sits on my desk. It can optionally  connect to PC.

Simply being new, does not make it good or useful.
Alex
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2015, 09:23:59 pm »
How would you compete Analog Discovery which sells for 99 bucks for US students, and 150 for international students?

They are designed by Digilent with Analog and Xilinx's AFEs' help, and is supported worldwide.

They use ADI 14 bit ADC, ADI amplifiers and ADI DAC, they have on board full functional AWG and logic analyzer as well as pattern generator.

They have a more than adequate software that supports secondary development.

Finally, I can put my Analog Discovery in my pockets and hook it up to my tablet without carrying a bag or a case.

If you want to compete, do a business analysis before pouring your keen on a product doomed to fail. It is not everyone can make money from niche market.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2015, 09:32:26 pm »
Yes, and you have not shown us why this is good.

Working on a tablet? I have probes in my hands when I use the scope, there is no way for me to hold the tablet. And if I put down the tabled, how it would be different from a real scope?

What's wrong with wired connectivity? I'm not going anywhere from my scope.
Alex
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2015, 09:37:35 pm »
I don't understand what's so big about it using HTML 5. That's a tool you use to make it, not something that should affect how we use it...

I gather there's a bit of a language barrier here preventing you from explaining why we should want this, but yeah... I don't know why I would want this.

It sounds like someone was looking for a problem to solve using HTML 5 and said "I know! I'll make an oscilloscope!", completely forgetting that the latter part of the idea is the hard part.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 09:40:03 pm by c4757p »
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Offline free_electron

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2015, 09:42:36 pm »
i think this idea is usefull a you can connect a frontend wirelessly to a visualisation system without being restricted by an operating system ( the endless windows / limux / mac discussion) and having GALVANIC ISOLATION

any device that has a browser supporting html 5 can be used. you coudl even use a cheap chromebook or android tablet.

the key for me is the galvanic isolation as it runs over wifi.

but , before we get there i also want to see some hardware performance.
a scope is foremost defined by
- bandwidth
- sampling speed
- sampling accuracy ( vertical bit depth )
- memory depth
- blind time
- trigger capabilities

logic analyser
- memory depth
- sampling speed
- pattern and protocol triggering


so far we know very little about the lump of hardware there.


Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2015, 09:43:57 pm »
Traditional scope is piece of hardware that sits on my desk. It can optionally  connect to PC.

Simply being new, does not make it good or useful.

We can think html5scope = usb oscilloscope + wifi+ html5

Those are features. Nobody cares about features. People care about benefits, so tell us how we would benefit from those features. Note: that implies a comparison with other ways we can achieve our objectives.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2015, 09:47:24 pm »
Maybe someone sometimes like to Work on a tablet.
Maybe someone like Wifi and USB oscilloscope.
May be, or may be not. That's called market research, and you do it before designing a product. Right now you have designed a product and asking us to help you with selling it to a non-existing audience.

Html5scope is only a product,no the Great ambition to replace of other oscilloscope. no Great ambition to occupy all the market or most of the market.
And that's shows.
Alex
 

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2015, 10:28:22 pm »
If some one has contributed,But the campaign is unsuccessful at the end.
How to use the money ?
You don't. That's the point. Crowd funding is designed (ideally) so you could use the economy of scale, it is not a shop or preorder system.

If you can make single quantities for $300 already, why not just put a "buy" button on your site and don't make people wait 30 days?
Alex
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2015, 10:34:45 pm »
A-A is often found in usb product.
No, it's not.  I have never seen a device that is supposed to use an A-A cable.  The mere existence of these cables is a mystery to me.  I have never seen one in person, and I can not think of any application that should use one.

The local computer/electronics shop carries A-A cables (not the extension type), and I can't imagine that they've ever sold any, as there is literally no reason for the cables to exist. Next time I am in, I will ask if any ever sold.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2015, 10:38:23 pm »
Traditional scope is piece of hardware that sits on my desk. It can optionally  connect to PC.

Simply being new, does not make it good or useful.

We can think html5scope = usb oscilloscope + wifi+ html5

Those are features. Nobody cares about features. People care about benefits, so tell us how we would benefit from those features. Note: that implies a comparison with other ways we can achieve our objectives.

Dunno, that can lead to some terribly inscrutable kickfartery business crap sometimes. MumbleMumble will revolutionize your mumble by leveraging mumble to obfuscate mumbled mumbles! With MumbleMumble you can mumble your mumble while you mumble your mumble!

Yeah, but what is it? Half of these you can't even tell what the product is because they think it's so unique as to be practically ineffable. At least this dude is direct in stating what it is. I'll take that any day over a salesman who tries to tell me all about how it'll change my life.

I still don't want the product, but at least now I know that I don't want it...

(and f_e is right, it has potential. I can see quite a few people being interested in it if it were a bit more polished.)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 10:40:01 pm by c4757p »
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Offline Mr.B

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2015, 10:43:56 pm »
A-A is often found in usb product.
No, it's not.  I have never seen a device that is supposed to use an A-A cable.  The mere existence of these cables is a mystery to me.  I have never seen one in person, and I can not think of any application that should use one.

The local computer/electronics shop carries A-A cables (not the extension type), and I can't imagine that they've ever sold any, as there is literally no reason for the cables to exist. Next time I am in, I will ask if any ever sold.

I have encountered devices with this requirement once.
A couple of years ago we had a bunch of Huawei cellular desk phones that required USB A-A cable to flash firmware.
It was so painful to try to source a cable that I ended up making my own.
The firmware was so buggy we binned all of them in the end.
Huawei... Made in China...
Time is the overseer of all things.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2015, 10:51:53 pm »
Myself I think html 5 is an interesting prospect, although it depends what kind of processor drives it since it would be essentially a web server. Maybe a Cyclone/SoC from Altera might be up to the task but then you would be able to drive the screen directly.

The problems I see with this device are:

1) poor specs to make it competitive at that price.
2) flexible funding, because if you don't reach your goal you might decide not to refund the money. But I guess backers can pull the funds until the last minute, not sure since I never did back an indigogo project.

 

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2015, 11:12:22 pm »
If regular campaign is not successful IGG will not charge any money in a first place, so you won't have to refund anything.
Alex
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2015, 11:42:07 pm »
Traditional scope is piece of hardware that sits on my desk. It can optionally  connect to PC.

Simply being new, does not make it good or useful.

We can think html5scope = usb oscilloscope + wifi+ html5

Those are features. Nobody cares about features. People care about benefits, so tell us how we would benefit from those features. Note: that implies a comparison with other ways we can achieve our objectives.

Dunno, that can lead to some terribly inscrutable kickfartery business crap sometimes. MumbleMumble will revolutionize your mumble by leveraging mumble to obfuscate mumbled mumbles! With MumbleMumble you can mumble your mumble while you mumble your mumble!

Easily detected... All you have to do is invert the statement; if it is ridiculous then the original statement was content-free motherhood and apple pie.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline Bud

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2015, 04:24:36 am »
Html5scope has WiFi/Lan/USB interface and it can works on smart phone,tablet and PC.
It is a new thing.

My friend, have you ever done troubleshooting electronics on the bench using a scope? No one gives shit for wifi and stuff when spending hours troubleshooting or prototyping. You really think people will be sitting with their phones and poking fingers in damn phone screen? Leave tablets and phones to teenagers, focus on usability of your product on the bench, this is where this type of equipment is used the most.
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2015, 07:39:31 am »
Maybe someone sometimes like to Work on a tablet.

Maybe someone like Wifi and USB oscilloscope.

Html5scope is only a product,no the Great ambition to replace of other oscilloscope. no Great ambition to occupy all the market or most of the market.

Why are you doing that indiegogo thing? It's for loosing time and money to scam artists.
Stop making your product ridiculous by scamming money for digital pictures or network cables.

I saw your video, it looks like your product is working.
Send it to someone for a review, the guy has to be like this:

-  is a professional daily/weekly scope user.
-  knows absolutely nothing about your product, does not know you well, gets only product+manual, no explanation or extra info.
-  speeks the same language as the customers you want.

Let him test it, let him make remarks, recommendations, comparisons.
Back tot the table to do some adjustments, and now look for a distributor/partner.

If you do not want a distributor/partner, sell it yourself. Make a site, Ebay, Aliexpress, Youtube movies, test reports, go.

If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline fubar.gr

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2015, 11:02:40 am »
I played around with the demo found here: http://www.html5scope.com/1/

But how do I set the trigger voltage level?

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2015, 03:40:50 pm »
I had the same problem. I think the trigger is the arrow on the right, but it simply does not work.

And the UI is like a being 747 console. It mist be simplified.
Alex
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2015, 04:51:24 pm »
And the UI is like a being 747 console. It mist be simplified.

And get the units right! (KHz, uS)

Makes me think, however unjustly, that the designer has more knowledge and interest in web technologies than digitisers.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline janoc

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2015, 07:59:19 pm »
I tried to play with the demo too, but this feels to me like an output from a programmer that has never seen or used a real scope.

  • The triggers don't work
  • How does one set a trigger on the digital signal?
  • Why only dot mode? At least I haven't found the line mode display which is way more common
  • Button labels - jeeze, this really requires imagination to find that you must press "Knob" to get both A and B channel levels and the time base settings
  • Why does longer time base turn my screen into a narrow slice instead of showing me more of the signal?
  • What are those T50, T80, etc. buttons for?
  • How do cursors work? I can see them moving around, but nothing is being measured

Too many issues to list, really.

If you want to see how a usable (not great, but usable) PC scope interface should look like, download the demo of the Bitscope software. And for logic analyzers have a look at the Saleae software (also a free download with a demo mode).

This thing is pretty much useless, IMO, even if the hardware was great.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2015, 03:52:08 pm »
So you've created your own forum where you ask yourself questions instead of just answering here..
 

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2015, 04:01:05 pm »
Except that there is absolutely no real interest for this thing. And who wants to spend time and expose email address to some forum with 1 post?
Alex
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2015, 04:02:37 pm »
So you've created your own forum where you ask yourself questions instead of just answering here..

You have not a homepage yet?

I'm sorry? What does whether or not I have a website have to do with anything?
 

Online ataradov

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Re: A new oscilloscope with wifi/lan/usb on indiegogo.com
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2015, 04:15:07 pm »
To tell other people a forum ,is there any wrong / mistake ? 
Actually, yes, there is. You are starting to turn this topic into an ad for your site. And the problem here is that no one is interested in a product in a first place. And by placing your answers there, you are basically cutting off any future conversation. It is very naive to think that anyone will want to join that forum.

Ad hominem attacks on people here don't help either.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 04:17:02 pm by ataradov »
Alex
 


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