Author Topic: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter  (Read 37957 times)

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Online Jeroen3

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2017, 02:35:11 pm »
...
121GW incl. shipping ca. 188€*
+ import duties 6.96€
= 194.96€
+ VAT 37.04€
Total 232€
I've just checked, and I think multi-meters are 9030320000, which have 0% import duty.
What is the 6.96€ based on? Only VAT + handling fee apply, right?

Also, credit cards are still not common over here. We enjoy similar protection on our debit cards by law.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 02:36:53 pm by Jeroen3 »
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2017, 02:36:58 pm »
Though I pulled the trigger on the Agilent 1282A as soon as I first saw its capabilities (the portable (~800 hours) and fast (40 readings per second) logging feature, especially --let the 16-bit count display), I would not hesitate a moment to get that new beast because of its hackability; which (meaning the firmware hacking) is something that (even I, personally...) would be very hesitant to even think of doing to the Agilent 1282A...

Yes, I know, I should grow up a little more, sometime in my life!
But I won't; and you can take this to the bank! :P

Kudos to you, Dave!


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(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline savageautomate

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2017, 02:42:23 pm »
Great! 8) But I'll wait. In the mean time: is it possible to access the data spewn out via bluetooth on windows live through a virtual COM port?
I am asking, because I would like to post-process the data using Profilab which otherwise would need a special driver - something which will never happen.  :--

No it won't support a virtual com port out of the box.  It's BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) which does not support a COM profile using standard BT drivers. 

I'm pretty confident this can easily be overcome with a little USB attached bluetooth module such as an Adafruit nRF52 or ESP32 module running some custom code to collect the data via BLE and proxy it out on USB port using a virtual com.
 


 
 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2017, 02:56:06 pm »
Great! 8) But I'll wait. In the mean time: is it possible to access the data spewn out via bluetooth on windows live through a virtual COM port?
I am asking, because I would like to post-process the data using Profilab which otherwise would need a special driver - something which will never happen.  :--

No it won't support a virtual com port out of the box.  It's BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) which does not support a COM profile using standard BT drivers. 

I'm pretty confident this can easily be overcome with a little USB attached bluetooth module such as an Adafruit nRF52 or ESP32 module running some custom code to collect the data via BLE and proxy it out on USB port using a virtual com.
 


 
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2267
 

Offline chefkoch84

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2017, 03:16:23 pm »
Damn!!
Not checked the forum for one day  ---> already handled down almost 1000 positions on the backers list;-)
I am looking forward to this!!! Thanks a lot
Greetings
Max
 

Offline Barny

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2017, 03:25:53 pm »
I'll see what I can do.
Perhaps bulk shipping to the EU and having someone distribute internally is the best way to go for all?

VAT has to be paid anyway. Perhaps you could choose a country with a lowest VAT rate but the diff will be only a couple %.
You would probably save on shipping a bit.
As far as I know, UK has the best import tax conditions within the EU.
But this import-loop hole will be closed the next few years.
 

Online frozenfrogz

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2017, 03:42:37 pm »
I've just checked, and I think multi-meters are 9030320000, which have 0% import duty.
What is the 6.96€ based on? Only VAT + handling fee apply, right?

Also, credit cards are still not common over here. We enjoy similar protection on our debit cards by law.

You seem to be right, I did not know that multimeters were exempt from import duties! 6.96€ was based on 3.7% duty as for other electronic devices not for recreational use, such as GPS-devices.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Offline savageautomate

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2017, 03:42:59 pm »
Great! 8) But I'll wait. In the mean time: is it possible to access the data spewn out via bluetooth on windows live through a virtual COM port?
I am asking, because I would like to post-process the data using Profilab which otherwise would need a special driver - something which will never happen.  :--

No it won't support a virtual com port out of the box.  It's BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) which does not support a COM profile using standard BT drivers. 

I'm pretty confident this can easily be overcome with a little USB attached bluetooth module such as an Adafruit nRF52 or ESP32 module running some custom code to collect the data via BLE and proxy it out on USB port using a virtual com.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/2267

I looked into that module a few weeks ago because it seemed perfectly suited at first ... but I'm not sure it will work.  I think you will need a module that can act as a BLE "central" device allowing it to attach to BLE "peripherals". 

See Q&A #2 on this page:  https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-adafruit-ble-bluetooth-low-energy-friend/faq

The Adafruit Feather nRF52 (http://amzn.to/2iigl2J) (https://www.adafruit.com/product/3406) can act as "Central" devices according to their documentation. 

The SparkFun ESP32 Thing (http://amzn.to/2ihd9UY) should work as well as the cheaper ESP32 modules (http://amzn.to/2iii740).  BLE is still somewhat of a work in progress in the Arduino stack for the ESP32 modules but I was able to get some basic communication working with a BLE multimeter I have on hand.  Just waiting for the 121GW to arrive to take a deeper dive on this effort.   
 

 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2017, 04:08:11 pm »
You can also get a dev kit such as a CC2650 or CC2640R2 Launchpad - IIRC they have example code that runs BLE Central...  I have never tested it, though...
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

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Offline Scottjd

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 04:19:45 pm »
I don’t need another multimeter, (so I keep telling myself this) but this does have logging ability, and some other features I find nice in this price range like the VA measurement, low burden voltage, burden voltage display, micro current, 15v diode checker, built in Flux capacitor and more. For all this in one meter in the palm of my hand, well I have to give this one a try.

I think the only current thing I can think of that might be nice for Version 2 in the future would be a kelvin 4 resistance testing. Even if this came at an extra cost for a special set of add on probes to make it possible with just plugging into two jacks that are wired in a special way.

After skimming the manual I did have one idea.
I was surprised to see it can be calibrated by the user and I like this feature, thank you.
So the idea is a way to dump the EEPROM calibration data to the SD card before making any changes. This also allows to restore the meter to the default or previous calibration.

Maybe this could be a future firmware feature update to include a way to backup the calibration data. Do a EEPROM dump and write the data to the SD card. Maybe keep the last 5 calibration data files on the SD card, one being the factory calibration for default factory restore, and 4 user calibrations that can also be used to track any drift over the years.
You could make this a menu to do a manual backup of the calibration data, or make it a requirement to have an SD card installed so the firmware writes the calibration data before any new calibration perimeters are saved, or both?

I also understand that memory space could be limited for firmware, so it might be easier to add a way to remotely pull the calibration data over blutooth with a single command added to the firmware for this EEPROM dump. Being that most of the code will be on github I’m sure someone will write an app or script to pull the calibration backup remotely over a Bluetooth terminal (if it supports Bluetooth terminal) as long as a command was built into the firmware to do the calibration EEPROM query?

Side Notes: I’m sure the manual is still being worked on with final touches, or is this the completed manual? If it’s comoleted I noticed at the bottom of page 58 it satiates CALIBRATION REFERENCE TABLE, but nothing follows this.
And the temperature calibration still says pending procedure, maybe this part isn’t comoleted yet?

Just some random thoughts.
Looking forward to receiving the new meter.
Thank you,
Scott
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Offline Fungus

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2017, 04:24:45 pm »
Quote
I'll see what I can do.
Perhaps bulk shipping to the EU and having someone distribute internally is the best way to go for all?
You would probably save on shipping a bit.
If you send a crate to Europe directly from the factory then you also save the cost of sending it to Dave first.

 

Offline chefkoch84

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2017, 05:25:51 pm »
Just passed the 1000 meters threshold...
Is there an upper limit for the first bigger batch? (e.g. parts in stock etc.)

If some are shipped directly Korea --> Europe,
then we will accept that Dave does not sign every meter personally...

Greetings
Max

 

Offline Decoman

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2017, 06:03:08 pm »
Sigh, I ordered both a DMM AND the uCurrent product the other day. :D
 

Offline ballanux

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2017, 07:07:04 pm »
Maybe I didn't need a new multimeter... But this is The EEVBlog multimeter, I couldn't pass that!  :-DMM

 

Offline digi

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2017, 07:16:08 pm »
Can't wait to get mine  :)

Dave,
I was looking through the pdf manual and found a couple of typos.
Page 27:


Page 43:


 

Offline skogen75

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2017, 07:40:31 pm »
Backer 528 here...missed the first batch, but looking forward (already have the EEVblog BM235, BTW). 

Anyway, was going through the manual and was wondering about the Low Burden voltage statement.  Am I way wrong or do the specifications state a relatively normal burden voltage specification.  100microV/microA, same as a Fluke 87V. 

I was waiting for this meter because I thought I wouldn't need the micro current (10microV/microA).  Well, either I'm miss-reading the spec or I'll still need the micro current.  Can anyone comment? Thanks.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2017, 09:08:20 pm »
Though I pulled the trigger on the Agilent 1282A as soon as I first saw its capabilities (the portable (~800 hours) and fast (40 readings per second) logging feature, especially --let the 16-bit count display), I would not hesitate a moment to get that new beast because of its hackability; which (meaning the firmware hacking) is something that (even I, personally...) would be very hesitant to even think of doing to the Agilent 1282A...

Yes, I know, I should grow up a little more, sometime in my life!
But I won't; and you can take this to the bank! :P

Kudos to you, Dave!


-George

George do you believe that we will have an issue with custom office? Or will the shipping company clear it for us?

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline boffin

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2017, 09:37:47 pm »
Quote
I'll see what I can do.
Perhaps bulk shipping to the EU and having someone distribute internally is the best way to go for all?
You would probably save on shipping a bit.
If you send a crate to Europe directly from the factory then you also save the cost of sending it to Dave first.

Once Dave has dealt with the 1st (smallish) batch, it would make perfect sense to have a Korean based freight forwarder to avoid hopping to Australia 1st
 

Offline gnavigator1007

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2017, 10:00:41 pm »
Congrats Dave! Broke 1/4 million us$ and trending #1 on kickstarter. Looking forward to the meter
 

Offline Kire Pûdsje

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2017, 10:39:30 pm »
Regarding CE certification, Dave please read this!!!!!
Not to criticize you. I think you are doing a great job, but you might have been slightly ill-advised regarding CE compliance. Just want to prevent you from running into troubles. Don't be afraid, it is probably only paperwork that needs correcting.
BTW on the technical side it looks like a fantastic product. I also signed up for one.

In the clip I see certificates that contain directives that are not applicable in the EU for this product.
Since the meter contains a bluetooth transmitter, the product as a whole is considered to be a radio, and should fall under the RED directive (2014/53/EU). I know it is confusing, but you do not apply the EMC and LVD directives itself, but you have to satisfy the essential requirements of the EMC directive and the LVD directive. The latter should be assessed without the voltage limit applying.
Also, you as the manufacturer should draw up your own DoC. The "test verification of conformity" and the "attestation of conformity" have no value within the EU. Only your DoC and the test reports are important.
There are also requirements to labeling. For CE among others it should contain the contact address on the label. For FCC there is the warning label (depending on the size it could also be placed in the manual)
Finally just wondering, no word about certification for Australia? (a.o. AZ/NZS 4268:2017)




Some excerpts from the RED directive:

The objectives with respect to safety requirements laid down in Directive 2014/35/EU are sufficient to cover radio equipment, and should therefore be the reference and made applicable by virtue of this Directive. In order to avoid unnecessary duplications of provisions other than those concerning such requirements, Directive 2014/35/EU should not apply to radio equipment.

The essential requirements in the area of electromagnetic compatibility laid down by Directive 2014/30/EU are sufficient to cover radio equipment, and should therefore be the reference and made applicable by virtue of this Directive. In order to avoid unnecessary duplications of provisions other than those concerning essential requirements, Directive 2014/30/EU should not apply to radio equipment.

Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not be subject to Directive 2014/35/EU, except as set out in point (a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive.

Where compliance of radio equipment with the applicable requirements has been demonstrated by that conformity assessment procedure, manufacturers (that is you Dave, not the assembly house unless....) shall draw up an EU declaration of conformity and affix the CE marking.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:48:55 pm by Kire Pûdsje »
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2017, 10:44:19 pm »
Just wanted to say... Good on you Dave.  Congratulations on your awesome Kickstarter campaign!



 

Offline thm_w

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2017, 11:13:56 pm »
Would go for it but $30 shipping plus import taxes, duties, and fees from DHL would all add up.
$30 is a solid deal for DHL express though, I certainly don't blame dave for going with one shipping company and hope it goes well (261k USD atm).

There are a few re-shippers in AU, they could revalue the package. EU buyers can consider going that route. But you certainly won't save on shipping costs, that would be ~$48 for the reship service via DHL + $8 for AU shipping.

Ordered. Hope USPS won't lose my package again.

Its DHL express not USPS, should be better.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2017, 11:29:15 pm »
Signing 1000 multimeters is a lot of extra work. How long would it take to open each box and unpack it, sign it, repack it?

I really have no wish for anyone to sign, mark or otherwise deface the product. It should be untouched, new in box.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
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Offline stach

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2017, 11:45:36 pm »
Signing 1000 multimeters is a lot of extra work. How long would it take to open each box and unpack it, sign it, repack it?

I really have no wish for anyone to sign, mark or otherwise deface the product. It should be untouched, new in box.

Aren't they gonna be placing the eevblog sticker on the meter ? I think it will be "defaced" anyhow, also i guess, no other way to place a sticker without opening the box..  ;)
 

Online wraper

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: 121GW Multimeter on Kickstarter
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2017, 11:46:10 pm »
How can you pay for things without a credit card? Credit cards offer much more security for the purchaser than other payment methods.

Unlike in the U.S. credit cards are not a thing here in Germany. I pay cash or with my banking card (debit card) in the real world and for online purchases it is either debit card, bank transfer as advance payment or Paypal // Amazon payments.

Do you have a debit card?

Yes, but KS does not support that option :(
Where did you get that? Sure they support debit cards unless it is maestro or Visa electron crap (you did not specify what you have). But those are not supported for most online payments as well.

Quote
What forms of payment can I use to make a pledge?

You can use a debit or credit card associated with Visa, Discover, JCB, MasterCard, or American Express. Discover and JCB cards are currently only accepted for US-based projects.

We do not currently accept Maestro or Visa Electron cards. If using a pre-paid credit card, please make sure that the card has a value of at least $1 more than your pledge amount.
 


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