Author Topic: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?  (Read 7039 times)

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Offline steve_w

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Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« on: December 18, 2015, 08:14:54 am »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1160734716/a-safer-usb-charger-adaptor

Amateurish video but looks OK.  There is no technical description and they are underwhelmed with funding?

Whats the consensus?

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Steve W
So long and thanks for all the fish
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 08:30:50 am »
Pure bullpucky of the worst kind.

The ONLY way to make mass-market USB chargers generally safer short of draconian regulation of all electronics importation, is to standardise on transparent cases for them so counterfeiters have to work a lot harder to pass off their cheap s--t as the genuine article.
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2015, 08:36:18 am »
There is zero technical details. In that case, donate me your money. My green chip technology is way better and will save your house from flooding as well.

Alex
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2015, 08:36:40 am »
Where to start? I'm afraid it looks like a solution looking for a non-existent problem IMHO.

It doesn't help the over-playing of any danger. I'm surprised they didn't bring up puppies and kittens suffering and dying every second as a result of a supposedly dodgy walwart.

 

Offline mikerj

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2015, 04:46:07 pm »
It doesn't help the over-playing of any danger.

That's all there is as far as I can see, no technical details or description of how their plastic dipped PCB makes things any safer.
 

Offline Delta

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2015, 04:57:33 pm »
I think there might be something in this...  All cabling from Intrinsically Safe circuits is blue - his stupid little PCB is blue...  I'm in for $1000...
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 05:03:46 pm »
Clueless idiots. The only reason chargers kill people is becuase they're poorly designed fakes.
I've never seen a plug-in charger that will put out 3 amps, and even it if did, this has no bearing on the fibrillation current that they mention - these morons don't even understand Ohm's Law.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 05:09:15 pm »
Pure bullpucky of the worst kind.

The ONLY way to make mass-market USB chargers generally safer short of draconian regulation of all electronics importation, is to standardise on transparent cases for them so counterfeiters have to work a lot harder to pass off their cheap s--t as the genuine article.
Now that is actually a really good idea.
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Online Ian.M

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2015, 05:35:29 pm »
Thank you, and I meant draconian in the ancient greek sense.  If knowingly importing, transporting, selling or bulk purchasing a mains powered device marked with a fake CE mark, (or being wilfully ignorant of the mark's fake status)  carried a minimum charge of criminal negligence, rising to negligent homicide if the defective device caused a death, with mandatory jail time and more severe penalties for knowingly making a false CE conformity declaration, Europe wouldn't have the 'China Export' mark problem.  As is, a few importers loose a shipment to customs inspections, a few street traders get busted, a fine is paid and its back to business as usual the next week.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2015, 05:47:46 pm »
How do they imagine this would change anything?

People don't get killed by properly designed, legitimate chargers from real manufacturers, they're killed by cheap fakes bought from street vendors.  Anyone willing to shell out a HUNDRED dollars on a phone charger is not going to be buying fakes in the first place, so it solves nothing.  They're "protecting" the people who aren't at risk, and for the people who are at risk, this is just another high priced phone charger that won't get a second look.

You know what else kills people?  Obesity and fast food.  Maybe I should launch a Kickstarter where people can purchase meals without any of the bad stuff you get in fast food.  Just $150 a plate, let's make the world a safer place!
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2015, 06:09:52 pm »
Thank you, and I meant draconian in the ancient greek sense.  If knowingly importing, transporting, selling or bulk purchasing a mains powered device marked with a fake CE mark, (or being wilfully ignorant of the mark's fake status)  carried a minimum charge of criminal negligence, rising to negligent homicide if the defective device caused a death, with mandatory jail time and more severe penalties for knowingly making a false CE conformity declaration, Europe wouldn't have the 'China Export' mark problem.  As is, a few importers loose a shipment to customs inspections, a few street traders get busted, a fine is paid and its back to business as usual the next week.
Actually I was referring to the transparent case.
If the safety standards dictated that anything that plugs into a wall socket must have a transparent casing it would make it harder for fakers.
There is a minor precedent in that transparent mains plugs are recommended in guidance for PAT (portable appliance testing) to make it easier to inspect.

A possible flipside is that fakers would start using cheaper plastics like polystyrene that break more easily...
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Online Ian.M

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2015, 06:25:06 pm »
Actually I was referring to the transparent case.
If the safety standards dictated that anything that plugs into a wall socket must have a transparent casing it would make it harder for fakers.
There is a minor precedent in that transparent mains plugs are recommended in guidance for PAT (portable appliance testing) to make it easier to inspect.

A possible flipside is that fakers would start using cheaper plastics like polystyrene that break more easily...
Yes. and to solve that, one is back to draconian inspection, regulation and enforcement, which is politically impossible, due to the short-termism of western democracies, until after a major incident causing mass public outcry, which almost always results in knee-jerk lawmaking with little or no thought given to practical implementation.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015, 06:44:44 pm »
Pure bullpucky of the worst kind.

The ONLY way to make mass-market USB chargers generally safer short of draconian regulation of all electronics importation, is to standardise on transparent cases for them so counterfeiters have to work a lot harder to pass off their cheap s--t as the genuine article.
Now that is actually a really good idea.
SECOND THAT. Mandatory clear cases so you can see the brand of the caps, traces etc ... then again , the knockoffs will simply relabel parts , stuff small caps in large cap bodies ...
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Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015, 06:49:36 pm »
eBay shop with all the gear you need!
FS: Agilent 54825A, R&S CMU200, CRTU, SMIQ06L, Marconi 6201B, Lecroy WP 950, 9354TM, 9354M, 9374L LC584A, Tek THS720P, TDS7154B, Anritsu MG3671A 2.75G I/Q RF gen, Keithley 238 SMU, HP 8642B, 8903A, 8110A, 8156A
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015, 06:53:32 pm »
Where to start? I'm afraid it looks like a solution looking for a non-existent problem IMHO.

It doesn't help the over-playing of any danger. I'm surprised they didn't bring up puppies and kittens suffering and dying every second as a result of a supposedly dodgy walwart.

yeh pure fear mongering, to avoid getting killed by a charger don't buy a fake that is so cheap that it
is surprising there was money  to put it in a cardboard box

and $100 is a lot, how much is a genuine iphone charger from an apple store, half that?

 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2015, 07:03:38 pm »
Unrealistic to get clear chargers mandated by safety standards, but if a major manufacturer like Apple took the lead (and didn't trademark it) then others would probably follow to make it a de facto standard
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Online Ian.M

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2015, 07:16:37 pm »
The video is nearly as bad as the free energy ones.  Not one shot of the 'blu-chip' installed. Its obviously supposed to trip the upsteam circuit breaker.  In a two pin wall wart, it can only do that by crowbarring the supply.  Is that an advance in safety? I think not.   A RCD protected circuit will trip anyway if there is excess earth leakage due to a defective charger + human contact.

Reaction in Shenzhen if this campaign succeeds and goes viral?
Probably: press 'gutter plastic' into heated moulds to make fake 'blu-chip', insert wires and dip in paint. Increase price of fake chargers to $1 USD F.O.B Port of Shenzhen.  Enjoy increased profit.

 

Offline alho

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2015, 10:49:33 am »
If this is same Wayne Callen (https://www.linkedin.com/in/wayne-callen-4a347a86) then company behind KS campaign is most likely Safelec Thecnology.
Maybe something to do whit their RVD or Residual Voltage Device, which measures voltage of earth connection and trips an RCD.
http://www.safelec.com.au/residual-voltage-device-rvd.html

Also Wayne Callen is backer of The Skarp Laser Razor, so yeah...
 

Offline Peeps

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2015, 01:20:41 pm »
Sounds like a real non issue. Even if he produces these super safe chargers the market is still flooded with Chinese knock offs and people will still buy them over his solution.

Why do people buy them? Because they're cheap. A genuine charger can be $40 to 50 while the Chinese are 5 to 10. Even if they had transparent enclosures, people will buy them. It's not like the average person would even notice the differences just by looking at the circuit anyways.
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2015, 02:49:20 am »
Transparent cases? Do you think most people could identify well designed electronics on sight? Most of the posters here couldn't do it, even if they might convince themselves otherwise.
 

Offline v8dave

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2015, 03:12:25 am »
The project has just been cancelled whilst I was watching their video.

The way I saw this working was it relied on the RCD to trip out the power but many countries do not use them. Here where I live there is only current breakers and no RCD installed. In some places here, the earth wire is not even connected. Worse still is that the NEUTRAL from the substation is directly connected to the ground point where it enters the house.

Many USB chargers are double insulated and therefore don't have an earth wire so as far as I can see, the testing shown in the video would not work.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2015, 03:52:27 am »
Low voltage at 3A can kill?
1A is > than 10*100ma?

BTW, the "blue chip" looks like just a solid state GFCI to me, if the video is not a fake.
Being said, the blue chip does have use to protect a primary-secondary fault, which is what caused deaths in wall wart kills, but at least, make it look better, say, making it a SIP module?
Strange, they know how to fix pri0sec leakage by adding a solid state GFCI, but they explained the theory completely incorrectly.
 

Offline mikerj

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2015, 11:40:36 am »
Being said, the blue chip does have use to protect a primary-secondary fault, which is what caused deaths in wall wart kills, but at least, make it look better, say, making it a SIP module?
Strange, they know how to fix pri0sec leakage by adding a solid state GFCI, but they explained the theory completely incorrectly.

The other way to avoid this is to design the PSU correctly in the first place, using adequate creepage distances, well designed transformers and quality construction.  Adding a circuit to compensate for an inherently poor design makes no sense at all.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2015, 12:18:09 pm »
The other way to avoid this is to design the PSU correctly in the first place, using adequate creepage distances, well designed transformers and quality construction.  Adding a circuit to compensate for an inherently poor design makes no sense at all.

The kickatarter is not intended to build a better wall wart, IMHO. Its intention is to build an additional layer of protection in a well socket.
It should be done by wall wart makers, but when they fail to do so, the blue chip kicks in.
 

Offline timb

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2015, 12:46:41 pm »

Low voltage at 3A can kill?
1A is > than 10*100ma?

It can when the poorly made charger shorts out, catching the house on fire while you sleep.

Maybe they should include a smoke detector as well? Because you might forget to replace the battery in yours!...

What we really need is simply pubic awareness on the dangers of cheap Chinese chargers. So do your part, inform family and coworkers.


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Offline mikerj

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2015, 05:39:20 pm »
The other way to avoid this is to design the PSU correctly in the first place, using adequate creepage distances, well designed transformers and quality construction.  Adding a circuit to compensate for an inherently poor design makes no sense at all.

The kickatarter is not intended to build a better wall wart, IMHO. Its intention is to build an additional layer of protection in a well socket.
It should be done by wall wart makers, but when they fail to do so, the blue chip kicks in.

Ok, I missed that.  Does it also detect cheap Chinese chargers catching on fire I wonder...
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Another Kickstarter - what do you guys reckon?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2015, 05:58:59 pm »
Ok, I missed that.  Does it also detect cheap Chinese chargers catching on fire I wonder...

CBP (is supposed to) do that.
 


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