Author Topic: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us  (Read 14802 times)

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Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2016, 10:30:21 pm »
The device is only the beginning, we want to integrate all the life of a person, something that goes with you all the time and is a help, that let you control the house by voice, while you go to the work, while check your agenda and watch the traffic to let you know how late you gonna be, whatever, a smart tech partner.
The phone does this with a very rich, fluid and reliable UI.

Respect of the gesture control, the device have a camera and we are using OpenCV to recognise gestures
How will that work if this thing sits on a bed side table? Or do I need to put another table in front of the bed?

Where was the device located in that one non-bogus video?
Alex
 

Offline ez24

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2016, 11:05:21 pm »
www.umbo.us

When I go to your homepage, it shows nothing but uninteresting pictures which wastes my time trying to navigate to something meaningful.  Seems this design shit (large sliders) has taken over web design and the fact that web pages are getting worse is driving me nuts along with the goal of never visiting the site again.

If you want a meaningful page, inform the user with some info when they first see your page.  Not four meaningless pictures in a slide show that shows no skill in making web pages.  Get away from those damn sliders.   :--

Hope this was useful to you.  (I still do not know what you are doing)

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Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2016, 11:07:45 pm »
If you want a meaningful page, inform the user with some info when they first see your page.
That would imply that you have something meaningful to show. Most of those "startups" don't, and this one is no exception.
Alex
 

Offline Morgoroth

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2016, 11:08:00 pm »
Is not the same, or at least is not what we want to do, we want much more, but is our fault not be able to share the idea properly and one more thing to do.

The camera is at back of the device (very small hole), so the camera is looking to the user all the time while the images are at front of the user.

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Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2016, 11:11:05 pm »
The camera is at back of the device (very small hole), so the camera is looking to the user all the time while the images are at front of the user.
Again, I'm having a really hard time placing this device anywhere in my apartment, where it will make sense.

I don't know if your designers ever been to a real kitchen, but you can't place something like that in a middle of a counter. People actually cook in the kitchen, and it can get messy.

Also, clean desks with nothing but a plant and a computer only exist in designers dreams. So now this gizmo will require me to not put anything in front of it on a desk, wasting valuable surface area.

As for bedroom, I have no place in front of my bed, there is a gap and then the wall. This is typical for bedrooms, as far as I can see. So where would I put that? Do you have like a floor plan of a bedroom you are envisioning? How can I place this device, so it projects on a wall in front of my bed, but I still have control over it when in bed?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 11:14:57 pm by ataradov »
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Offline Bud

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2016, 11:22:53 pm »
you can't place something like that in a middle of a counter. People actually cook in the kitchen, and it can get messy.
A power cord is the last thing you want in the middle of that counter where you chop things with knife
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Offline Morgoroth

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2016, 12:10:58 am »
www.umbo.us

When I go to your homepage, it shows nothing but uninteresting pictures which wastes my time trying to navigate to something meaningful.  Seems this design shit (large sliders) has taken over web design and the fact that web pages are getting worse is driving me nuts along with the goal of never visiting the site again.

If you want a meaningful page, inform the user with some info when they first see your page.  Not four meaningless pictures in a slide show that shows no skill in making web pages.  Get away from those damn sliders.   :--

Hope this was useful to you.  (I still do not know what you are doing)

Very useful, thanks for pointing those things.

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Offline fsaezc

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2016, 12:32:45 am »
www.umbo.us

When I go to your homepage, it shows nothing but uninteresting pictures which wastes my time trying to navigate to something meaningful.  Seems this design shit (large sliders) has taken over web design and the fact that web pages are getting worse is driving me nuts along with the goal of never visiting the site again.

If you want a meaningful page, inform the user with some info when they first see your page.  Not four meaningless pictures in a slide show that shows no skill in making web pages.  Get away from those damn sliders.   :--

Hope this was useful to you.  (I still do not know what you are doing)

I bet you're a great engineer, but you must definitely not know about selling a product my friend.

Selling a product doesn't start with the "what"... thats the engineering approach, that doesn't call to the emotion of the buyer, and buying is a process that uses a lot of emotions.
That's why you start with imagery... you want to relate the customer to the user experience and "meaningless pictures" sounds very weird when we know that an image is worth a thousand words... right?

Let me give you some examples
https://www.apple.com/
https://nest.com/
https://www.tesla.com/
https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us
http://www.sonos.com/en-us/home

I could go on for hours...

Do you want me to pass along your feedback? I think they might not care.

Thanks for your time anyways!
 

Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2016, 12:38:47 am »
Selling a product doesn't start with the "what"... thats the engineering approach, that doesn't call to the emotion of the buyer, and buying is a process that uses a lot of emotions.
That's why you start with imagery... you want to relate the customer to the user experience and "meaningless pictures" sounds very weird when we know that an image is worth a thousand words... right?
Why did you put this stuff into engineering forum then? You may relate this way to mass market, not people actively participating here.

So far I have only one emotion about this site and other sites like that - I'm being tricked and brainwashed by marketers.

All the sites you showed are perfect examples of the same. And that's why I personally never go to a manufacturer site, it is useless most of the time. But in case of those products there are reliable places to get independent reviews, which would be the first to visit.

I can't relate to a 3D render of a kitchen or a squeaky clean desk.
Alex
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2016, 12:50:26 am »
It is not clear how the gesture detection will work. If this thing is installed on my bedside table, and I'm in the bed, will it be able to detect my gestures? What type of gestures are supported?

What about image distortion?

image distortion was already fixed in the mems device. they alter scan pattern.

but themotion sensing is a problem.
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Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2016, 12:54:08 am »
image distortion was already fixed in the mems device. they alter scan pattern.
This is awesome.

Do you have a video of a working product based on the same technology? I'm behind the times on projector stuff, it would be nice to see the state of the art.
Alex
 

Online blueskull

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2016, 01:40:36 am »
Why did you put this stuff into engineering forum then? You may relate this way to mass market, not people actively participating here.
So far I have only one emotion about this site and other sites like that - I'm being tricked and brainwashed by marketers.

He was asking for recommendation and remark on his technology, not his marketing method.
Modern consumer business is, after all, trying to sell things not needed by customers to consumers.
This is not ethical, but ethical companies all died. The current big companies may look like philanthropist, but we all know how they accumulated their first money.
As a start up making consumer electronics, how can anyone make money not by scamming consumers?
All competitors exaggerate their product, and if you don't do so, no one will even bother to visit your website.
I'm also preparing to launch my company in audiophile field a couple years later as a side income, so I would also like to hear your recommendation.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2016, 01:54:21 am »
He was asking for recommendation and remark on his technology, not his marketing method.
What technology? We have no real information about the device. Even pictures of this thing in operation are apparently under NDA. Tech Specs section of the site is the most laughable one I've seen in years.

I'm also preparing to launch my company in audiophile field a couple years later as a side income, so I would also like to hear your recommendation.
Here is one - have a working product before you start marketing it. Then you can have actual reviewers look at your product and tell how it actually works, and not induce "good feelings" via marketing mumbo-jumbo BS.
Alex
 

Online blueskull

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2016, 02:00:04 am »
He was asking for recommendation and remark on his technology, not his marketing method.
What technology? We have no real information about the device. Even pictures of this thing in operation are apparently under NDA. Tech Specs section of the site is the most laughable one I've seen in years.

The tech part of his site looks disastrous to me as an engineer, but Apple does the same thing.
Apple will never tell your the exact Intel CPU part number, or timing information of their RAM, or R/W speed of their SSD, or TFlops of their GPU.

I'm also preparing to launch my company in audiophile field a couple years later as a side income, so I would also like to hear your recommendation.
Here is one - have a working product before you start marketing it. Then you can have actual reviewers look at your product and tell how it actually works, and not induce "good feelings" via marketing mumbo-jumbo BS.

I don't like the way VC and capitalism work, so I will definitely capitalize my technology with my own money and get real review.
Marketing is still IMHO required, especially in audiophile business, but of course, I will only give real numbers measured with real scientific equipment.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2016, 02:04:27 am »
but Apple does the same thing.
So what? Apple also has a core group that will buy any Apple product, however shitty it is. This company does not have this. And acting as someone is not a way to become someone.

In may case, the best result for this is to be a tech demo before being sold to Amazon for integration with Echo. Provided it works at all.
Alex
 

Offline edy

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2016, 07:41:13 am »
This is not ethical, but ethical companies all died. The current big companies may look like philanthropist, but we all know how they accumulated their first money.
As a start up making consumer electronics, how can anyone make money not by scamming consumers?
All competitors exaggerate their product, and if you don't do so, no one will even bother to visit your website.
I'm also preparing to launch my company in audiophile field a couple years later as a side income, so I would also like to hear your recommendation.

There is a fine line between embellishing a description of your products with language that highlights certain lifestyle and luxury, versus outright lying.

For example, Apple uses emotional components in their marketing. They don't lie able the technical specs, but may bend the truth with certain benchmarks due to having ideal situations or software taking advantage of coprocessors.

But if you market a product based on certain features, size and form factors, you'd better get something very close or exceed expectations otherwise that will be the last thing you'd company will sell. You will have a bunch of pissed off consumers making sure.

If they can't show a final prototype even in a 3D printed enclosure, with even the most basic software running and projecting on various surfaces and provide real photo and video evidence, I would stay away. If they want people to buy this, that should be a minimal expectation. They are not Apple.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2016, 08:47:37 am »
I bet you're a great engineer, but you must definitely not know about selling a product my friend.

Selling a product doesn't start with the "what"... thats the engineering approach, that doesn't call to the emotion of the buyer, and buying is a process that uses a lot of emotions.
That's why you start with imagery... you want to relate the customer to the user experience and "meaningless pictures" sounds very weird when we know that an image is worth a thousand words... right?

Let me give you some examples
https://www.apple.com/
https://nest.com/
https://www.tesla.com/
https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us
http://www.sonos.com/en-us/home

I could go on for hours...

Do you want me to pass along your feedback? I think they might not care.

Thanks for your time anyways!

And you will notice that none of those companies show their product doing things that it cannot actually do.  Imagine if Apple showed a 2mm thick iPhone with a transparent screen, then shipped the iPhone 7 as it is?  People would go crazy.  If Apple's response was "it provides the same user experience, we were just generating interest", that would never fly.  It would be all over the news, and there would be investigations by attorney generals of all 50 states.   

I also wonder if you have done any focus groups or engaged with customers to determine actual market demand?  Or is this a product that exists because it is technically possible to exist and because someone thinks it was cool to develop?  I realize you will write this off as someone shitting on your product, but the more I look at the pictures on the website, the more I don't see the point.  In all the pictures, I see a sort of mobile phone home-screen with calendar, appointments, weather and such projected on the wall.  What is the value of that?  Why is that superior to simply having it on my phone?  I think it would be better to have it on my phone where it's personal and only I can see it.  I have my phone in my pocket always... with your device, I have to go to the location of the Umbo - so now I am tied to that location. 

I have an Amazon Echo and several Dots.  I think that interface is superior.  Gesture interfaces are a pain in the ass.  They never work that well, and they require too much engagement.  For the type of information I want from such a device (news/schedule/weather), sound is superior, I think.  I can tell my Echo to tell me the weather as I am walking around the house getting my stuff before going to work, and I am not tied to a screen or a location.  I also am free to move about during that process.

Do you not think Amazon did substantial research on the interface and data its customers were using/looking for before designing the Alexa?  I am curious if you have done similar research or just feel this is a good product because it seems futuristic.

It sort of reminds me of the computer screen built into a glass-top desk.  It looks cool, people think it's neat, but I am not really sure there is any application for it.

It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2016, 08:56:27 am »
As a start up making consumer electronics, how can anyone make money not by scamming consumers?
All competitors exaggerate their product, and if you don't do so, no one will even bother to visit your website.

It's simple in concept.

You design and manufacture a product that has enough perceived value that people are willing to pay a price that lets you manufacture that product and earn enough of a profit to run your business.  Then you sell the product, stand behind it, honor your agreements and treat your customers with respect, and you will grow through word of mouth and repeat business.  Of course you need to keep innovating and improving your products, but it's really not hard.

It is absolutely not true that you have to exaggerate your product or lie about your product.  Of course you sell the positive aspects, but flat out lying (i.e. claiming your product can project darkness onto walls, or claiming it can project a bright image in an already brightly lit room if it cannot do that) is lying and you do not do that.  Doing that just ensures that will have huge support costs as you deal with tons of phone calls from angry customers who want refunds, and it ensures you will never get repeat business.  You will also pay higher rates for credit card processing as you will get a lot of chargebacks and most processors won't touch you unless you're doing huge volume. 

The vast, vast majority of companies started small and grew honestly and through hard work.  When you start, you won't have as much money or connections or the customer base you will have as a larger company, so you have to put in a lot of time and effort to overcome that.  That's just how business works.  Yes, it's hard.

You can try to shortcut it by scamming your customer base, but that's not a good idea and only shitty business people do that and they generally do not succeed because most venture capitalists won't touch them with a ten foot pole and they usually wind up scamming their business partners and ultimately themselves in the long run.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 
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Online blueskull

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2016, 12:40:50 pm »
As a start up making consumer electronics, how can anyone make money not by scamming consumers?
All competitors exaggerate their product, and if you don't do so, no one will even bother to visit your website.

1. You design and manufacture a product that has enough perceived value that people are willing to pay a price that lets you manufacture that product and earn enough of a profit to run your business.
2. It is absolutely not true that you have to exaggerate your product or lie about your product.
3. You can try to shortcut it by scamming your customer base, but that's not a good idea and only shitty business people do that and they generally do not succeed because most venture capitalists won't touch them with a ten foot pole and they usually wind up scamming their business partners and ultimately themselves in the long run.

1. Audiophile products have inherent high added value, especially when being designed with 2 ASICs and a a couple k lines of code, and outperforms ES9018.
2, 3: Lying is not good, but there is a fine line between "manipulating numbers" and "plain liar BS". For instance, if I have an audio system with 120dB SNR and 1:100 programmable attenuation, I will claim 140dB dynamic range (theoretically 160dB, but there are some analog noise as well) rather than 120dB SNR because most people will think DR=SNR, but in reality, they're not. Also, I will claim perception weighted value, rather than raw value, to get further ~3dB better looking numbers. This is done by many players in the market, and even big players to this. For instance, all ASRC chips have their DR and THD+N rated for in band noise, while almost no one have nearly as good out of band performance.
 

Offline madires

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2016, 01:56:55 pm »
I'd be careful with creating expectations which can't be fulfilled. These things will backfire, especially in the age of social media. As already pointed out, the picture of the kitchen application would give me the impression that UMBO works well in daylight. If I would buy an UMBO for that particular reason, I'd be quite disappointed when finding out that it doesn't, and also would tell others about this.

UMBO might be some nice gadget to play with for a while, but I don't see any benefit it could provide to me.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 02:05:02 pm by madires »
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2016, 04:28:07 pm »
image distortion was already fixed in the mems device. they alter scan pattern.
This is awesome.

Do you have a video of a working product based on the same technology? I'm behind the times on projector stuff, it would be nice to see the state of the art.
The ST device uses a MEMS micromirror. ( single mirror )
Trapezoidial distortion is simple to compensate ( simply reduce the horizontal scan range as you progress. )
the demo device i saw had  a menu where you simply set a slider. this compensated for angled projection. it was a manual process.
many projectors have this.
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Offline Bud

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Re: New kick ass device !!! www.umbo.us
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2016, 05:46:57 pm »
Projectors also have lens systems, dont they
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