Author Topic: Brio  (Read 10711 times)

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Offline mos6502

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Brio
« on: September 14, 2015, 08:57:14 pm »
So ... anyone see a problem with that schematic?



They got funded, by the way.
for(;;);
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Brio
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 12:09:59 am »
I don't think that counts as a schematic. It's more like a pseudo technical backdrop for the video. They should have added e=mc^2 to get the Einstein factor.

Shorted Cap? Whole line of diodes pointing to ground?
 

Offline AF6LJ

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Re: Brio
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 12:19:40 am »
Okay so I stuck a fork in an outlet when I was two, Yes I remember it.
I suppose this is a good thing, a GFI in a wall outlet, seems to me they already have those.
Sue AF6LJ
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Offline helius

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Re: Brio
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 12:54:59 am »
At 2:38 you can see a pretty clear schematic. The principle appears to be: energize the outlet at 24VAC when idle, and then measure the load when it connects to try to detect human contact. if(!human) then switch to 120VAC.
Does it have any advantages over GFI (which is not mentioned in the video)? In an isolated environment (no ground paths), it could be possible for a human to become the load without triggering GFI. By plugging in a severed flex without a safety earth, for example, or in the scenario the developer demos with the plug-in Edison socket.
Which doesn't answer how to discriminate human loads. My guess is that they use an assumption that skin contact to an energized terminal will have an unstable resistance and capacitance. So if the measurement of R+C at 24VAC doesn't converge within .5s, do not switch to 120VAC. A consequence of this is that whenever a "legitimate" load is present, the safety feature is off and electrocution is possible.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 01:00:19 am by helius »
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Brio
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 02:31:14 am »
That's not a schematic.
It's not a very good block diagram either.

Your probably right about how it is meant to function.
Though things might go a bit weird if you have a changing load.

It certainly breaks KISS.

 

Offline Melt-O-Tronic

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Re: Brio
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 04:10:39 am »
I need to get my head examined.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 06:36:05 pm by Melt-O-Tronic »
 

Offline AF6LJ

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Re: Brio
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 01:03:09 pm »
I  really have a problem with this, I don't see a reliable way to tell a human load from a reactive load.
Parental supervision is the best method to protect the child from coming in contact with dangerous voltages. 
Sue AF6LJ
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Offline DenzilPenberthy

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Re: Brio
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 01:24:17 pm »

It certainly breaks KISS.

Yep. we've had this problem solved since 1947 in the UK: shuttered sockets.

 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Brio
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 01:59:13 pm »
It certainly breaks KISS.
Yep. we've had this problem solved since 1947 in the UK: shuttered sockets.
+1 here too, no battery no circuit needed, nada... $5 if you need replacement available anywhere...
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline helius

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Re: Brio
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 02:43:12 pm »
Shuttered sockets (called Tamper Resistant) have been required in the US since 2008. They are much simpler, however (like BS 1363 shutters) they can't do anything for exposed contacts on lamps or broken cords.

http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/html/other_dangers.html
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Brio
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 03:08:04 pm »
however (like BS 1363 shutters) they can't do anything for exposed contacts on lamps or broken cords.
so that Brio thing can do anything for exposed/damaged but still copper connected cords? can it detect a child touching it? while the lamp/devices is still ON? otoh imho all the world should standardized to the right angled T shape pins as pictured by the shuttered socket above, i dont get it why the archaic slanted monkey's eye shape of the US socket and i keep getting plugs from China (usually the two round holes monkey's nose plug) thats unusable in my household, if the earth pin is unapplicable you can just leave it unconnected will ya? >:(
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 03:12:27 pm by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline helius

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Re: Brio
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 03:56:46 pm »
No, it can't do much when the device is on. (As I said in my first post, "whenever a...load is present, the safety feature is off.") This is especially true with power strips. So the illusion of safety may be an additional hazard.
 

Offline AF6LJ

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Re: Brio
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 03:59:48 pm »
The more I look at this, the more I see a product waiting for a use.
Although I suppose its use could be to pacify the overprotective parent.
Sue AF6LJ
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Offline bookaboo

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Re: Brio
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 04:12:49 pm »
I  really have a problem with this, I don't see a reliable way to tell a human load from a reactive load.
UK style BS approved sockets with RCD is the best method to protect the child from coming in contact with dangerous voltages.

fyp




It certainly breaks KISS.

Yep. we've had this problem solved since 1947 in the UK: shuttered sockets.



Even the screws line up parallel, what more could you want?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 04:15:39 pm by bookaboo »
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: Brio
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 04:16:47 pm »
What happens when the first of these devices fails with the "quality" Chinese parts within and kills some kid?
I wouldn't want to design a product like the Brio these days with that eventual possibility.

"Although I suppose its use could be to pacify the overprotective parent" AKA "Helicopter Parent"
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 04:19:19 pm by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Offline edy

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Re: Brio
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2015, 11:15:58 am »
It has been close to a year since campaign ended and no sign of them. That's because they can't start a company factory producing these for $50k. It is simply too little money. Some VC may have become involved to fund the rest. If not, the engineers split it up and ran away, or the leader of the company decided not to pay them. Either way, it looks like the Brio is dead.... prove me wrong.

Their website is fancy and says available Fall 2015 so we are almost there. But they have not answered any of their backers since beginning of the year, and it was a private message to backers only so no idea what it said. If they were gearing up for production they would surely have something to report to their backers... The factories and prototypes and UL approvals, etc.

And this was a Kickstarter "top pick". Anyone here a backer and would know where these guys are at? Or is it another dead crowd-funding product?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 11:21:20 am by edy »
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