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Products => Crowd Funded Projects => Topic started by: sk2593@cornell.edu on January 20, 2016, 07:57:11 pm

Title: Withdrawn
Post by: sk2593@cornell.edu on January 20, 2016, 07:57:11 pm
Withdrawn
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: drussell on January 21, 2016, 01:40:25 am
The startup will manufacture a battery charger which will work with most rechargeable batteries of varying size and shape independent of the battery chemistry.

Oh, really?

And how exactly are you planning on doing that?!

Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: John_ITIC on January 21, 2016, 02:03:07 am
This will be interesting.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: SL4P on January 21, 2016, 02:14:08 am
Well at least it's not crowd funded
Oops - yes it is
Call Bob, he's looking for his next IGG project.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: Towger on January 21, 2016, 02:18:21 am
Must be a windup.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 21, 2016, 03:30:48 am
Battery Charger...
Cornell University...
The powerbank battery has a capacity of 1500 mAh and can juice up in about 5 mins!!!
oh no, not again :palm:
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: blueskull on January 21, 2016, 03:50:02 am
1. One engineer and 2 MBA?
2. 5C discharging is fine, even 30C makes sense. 5C charging is probably not.
3. Arduino in commercial closed source product = GPL violation. Open source charger = being copied quickly.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: MrSlack on January 21, 2016, 07:18:52 am
Engineer to MBA ratio FAIL. If there's anything I've ever seen as concrete is that engineering driven startups are the most likely to succeed and MBA driven are most likely to fail.

How many MBAs does it take to change a light bulb? None, they come up with the most contrived way of doing it, get VC funding for their new turn-a-matic light bulb extractor on a stick, hire a series of engineers who laugh their way to the bank, end up blowing the entire budget on apologising on kickstarter for spending the entire VC capital on Herman Miller chairs and cocaine and finally end up sleeping on someone's sofa because they bankrupted themselves.

If you want evidence of this, go and see how many batches of Herman Miller Aeron chairs are on eBay :)
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: rx8pilot on January 21, 2016, 07:41:31 am
Experienced engineer...... No pay........ Startup........ Arduino.......revolutionize.



Sent from mobile device.... Keeping it short and mis-spelled

Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: station240 on January 21, 2016, 09:14:50 am
•   You are an experienced electronics engineer who is familiar with power supply, DC to DC converter, Op Amps, familiar with integrated chips like LM2904 and LM317.

You're planning to use a LM317 linear regulator from The Ark in a high current battery charger ?
Should be interesting to see the heat/smoke output from that.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: SL4P on January 21, 2016, 09:18:19 am
•   You are an experienced electronics engineer who is familiar with power supply, DC to DC converter, Op Amps, familiar with integrated chips like LM2904 and LM317.

You're planning to use a LM317 linear regulator from The Ark in a high current battery charger ?
Should be interesting to see the heat/smoke output from that.
So the MBA has identified the technology and components to be used...
Perhaps they can dispense with the EE, and simply get a PCB designer...?
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: EEVblog on January 21, 2016, 10:10:46 am
The startup will manufacture a battery charger which will work with most rechargeable batteries of varying size and shape independent of the battery chemistry.
Oh, really?
And how exactly are you planning on doing that?!

My thought exactly.
Do you realise that charging touchy exothermic battery technology like LiIon outside the very strict conditions is dangerous? Right?
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: EEVblog on January 21, 2016, 10:18:42 am
I have already developed a powerbank battery that will use this smart charger. The powerbank battery has a capacity of 1500 mAh and can juice up in about 5 mins!!!

So if this your own battery chemistry?
What exactly is the technology innovation in your "powerbank" battery?

1500mAh in 5 min = 1.5A x 12 = 18A charge rate (12C)

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers)
(http://www.batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/ultra_fast_chart.jpg)
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: MrSlack on January 21, 2016, 10:38:51 am
It doubles at an incendiary device of course!
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: Delta on January 21, 2016, 03:22:39 pm
Hahaha!

Best of luck with this one Sandeep!
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: suicidaleggroll on January 21, 2016, 04:14:09 pm
5 mins charge @7.5 WH = 90 watts/min.

WTF is a watt/min?
 |O
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: wraper on January 21, 2016, 04:24:08 pm
I am also an Engineer.
(https://dubsism.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/im-calling-bullshit.jpg?w=547)
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: MrSlack on January 21, 2016, 04:26:29 pm
5 mins charge @7.5 WH = 90 watts/min.

WTF is a watt/min?
 |O

1/60th of a joule?

Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: tom66 on January 21, 2016, 04:52:06 pm
WTF is a watt/min?
 |O

Hey, at least it's not kWh per hour.


Average charge rate has to be 90 watts per minute.

90 watts per minute makes no sense. Watt is power, you need to use a unit of energy, like joules, Wh, kWh, kilocalories.

What field is your engineering degree in and from what university? If it's an electronic engineering degree I would be asking for a refund.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: suicidaleggroll on January 21, 2016, 06:41:33 pm
What field is your engineering degree in and from what university? If it's an electronic engineering degree I would be asking for a refund.

He claims to be from Cornell.  I've been to Cornell before, and I know a handful of people in the graduate EE department there, they're not idiots.  If any one of them ever said "watts per minute" in this context, they'd get smacked in the face.  If not by me, then by any of the students or faculty in the room.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: suicidaleggroll on January 21, 2016, 06:43:56 pm
WTF is a watt/min?
 |O

1/60th of a joule?
1/60th of a joule per second squared.  It's an energy acceleration, and makes no sense in this context.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: coppice on January 21, 2016, 06:49:59 pm
WTF is a watt/min?
 |O
It would be a rate at which a power level is changing. Not a stupid unit, but not the correct one in the current context.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: Simon on January 21, 2016, 06:56:34 pm
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: suicidaleggroll on January 21, 2016, 06:57:33 pm
It would be a rate at which a power level is changing. Not a stupid unit, but not the correct one in the current context.
You're right, it could make sense, but not in this context.  I could chalk it up to a typo, but then he wrote the exact same thing again.  Anybody who does not know that a watt is already an energy rate should not be going anywhere near power system design.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: SL4P on January 21, 2016, 10:23:51 pm
ok, I got it...
MBA = master of battery analysis

the charge rate will require battery leads the thickness of your pinky finger +/ -  /sense combined.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: MrSlack on January 21, 2016, 10:53:31 pm
He's reading this and now has "room temperature superconductors" on the spec sheet.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: rx8pilot on January 22, 2016, 05:28:26 am
The 'maker movement' and start-up mania seem to have delivered the world many big dreamers but without the skills or the patience to chase those dreams. To randomly drop into a public forum and drop a poorly considered 'opportunity' for someone to get in on a revolutionary idea seems ludicrous to me.

If this were my dream, and my butt on the line - I would make a real presentation. Not to toot my own horn, but I made better, more convincing pitches 20 years ago long before there were easy tools to craft a presentation. I raised money, got partners, built businesses and sold them. I am seeing a trend of bizarrely horrible business pitches from people that claim to have a substantial education. MBA students from Cornell? Seriously? (side note, I looked at the Cornell site and couldn't find a business dept. - do they even have an MBA program?)

Regardless, you really should think through your idea and consider how others will receive it. A public plea  for help on a forum seems odd, but not nearly as odd as the content of the pitch.

With all that, I will not invest or offer any help. Not to be an ass, but being realistic. Have some pride, do the work, do the research. If you want free labor that is actually worth anything, you need to get out of your 8th grade level and be a business leader. Your pitch only gives me reason to chuckle and walk away. As you and your team move forward, keep in mind that people like me are the way it is in business. If you want my money or my time, you better be a pro. On the other hand, you could be happy with a marginally experienced young person that will hack at the problem and may or may not get anything done. This pitch claims to have a revolutionary product and is effectively looking for a beginner?

Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: EEVblog on January 22, 2016, 06:20:37 am
4) Fast charging batteries are the future and we are only trying to provide a platform for charging them. In theory if someone invents a battery that can fast charge(charge rate> 20 C), the challenge will still be to develop a charger economically. 5 mins charge @7.5 WH = 90 watts/min. Most cells are less than 3.7 volts, lets take 3 volts for this calculation. At 3 volts charging rate you will need 30 amps or higher to achieve it.
Our battery charger will have an DC/DC converter provide power at 0.6-3.3 volts at upto 50 amps using chips similar to http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/281/okdx-t-50-w12-519511.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/281/okdx-t-50-w12-519511.pdf)

Err, your battery charger won't work then. You clearly do need an engineer to design it for you.
I suggest you go and read how lithium ion batteries actually charge. I suggest you start here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries)
Notice how they need a bit more than 3.3V for charging. Typically 4.2V +/- a small tolerance, depending upon actual chemistry.
Your Lithium Titanate are less though.

Quote
6) The power bank I mentioned above uses a automotive Lithium Titanate battery that can charge ultra fast, the prototype battery I used currently charges in less than 10 mins using a lab power supply. In theory it can be charged in less than 5 mins per manufacturers claim.

Have you actually measured the capacity of the recharge you gave it?
What is your criteria for charge cutoff?
And BTW, who cares about Lithium Titanate batteries? Great if you are building them into an electric car or something (IIRC the iMIEV uses them), but what products use individual cells that need recharging in your widget?
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: TheSteve on January 22, 2016, 06:47:15 am
And I thought it was scary when I charged 1200 mAh NiCad cells at 40 amps years ago. I really don't want the average consumer charging lithium cells that fast.

Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: MrSlack on January 22, 2016, 10:07:22 am
The 'maker movement' and start-up mania seem to have delivered the world many big dreamers but without the skills or the patience to chase those dreams. To randomly drop into a public forum and drop a poorly considered 'opportunity' for someone to get in on a revolutionary idea seems ludicrous to me.

The whole maker movement principle does my head in if I'm honest. It's a marketing fad. It doesn't need a label or a movement. All it does is cheapen what people do and artificially motivate people to throw out dangerous, poorly conceived ideas to the masses. Some of the stuff I see is beyond lethal.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: Simon on January 22, 2016, 01:10:42 pm
The 'maker movement' and start-up mania seem to have delivered the world many big dreamers but without the skills or the patience to chase those dreams. To randomly drop into a public forum and drop a poorly considered 'opportunity' for someone to get in on a revolutionary idea seems ludicrous to me.

The whole maker movement principle does my head in if I'm honest. It's a marketing fad. It doesn't need a label or a movement. All it does is cheapen what people do and artificially motivate people to throw out dangerous, poorly conceived ideas to the masses. Some of the stuff I see is beyond lethal.

I agree. People have been designing and making things for years. But of course people macking and selling things jumped on the band wagen to enthuse a lot of people who would get nowhere and sell them stuff.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: Xenoamor on January 22, 2016, 01:37:29 pm
I think if you could make a universal rechargeable battery charger with:
Spring loaded clips to fit various battery sizes
Could detect the battery chemistry and charge correctly
Is cheap

You might have a product.

I don't think you should go designing it to supply 30+A for car batteries. There isn't a market for it.

Perhaps have a fast charge battery pack in the device so you can carry it around and charge anything out in the field or on long car journeys/camping trips.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: suicidaleggroll on January 22, 2016, 02:37:57 pm
I think if you could make a universal rechargeable battery charger with:
Spring loaded clips to fit various battery sizes
Could detect the battery chemistry and charge correctly
Is cheap

You might have a product.

He would, if it didn't already exist.  $18 on Amazon:
http://charger.nitecore.com/product/intellicharger-i4 (http://charger.nitecore.com/product/intellicharger-i4)

And their D4 charger can handle even more battery chemistries.
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: BravoV on January 22, 2016, 03:51:04 pm
Sandeep Kuthyar
Johnson Graduate School of Management
Cornell University, ...<snip>
I am software engineer not an electronics engineer.

Hey Sandeep, is there any chance you're one of those so called "Arduino Engineer" ?
Title: Re: Cofounder needed for Battery Charger startup
Post by: krish2487 on January 22, 2016, 06:36:44 pm


So you are a software engineer from a school of management...
 :o


@bravoV
Arduino didn't help create idiots/incompetents. It just helped expose them..
 :-DD


Quote from: BravoV on Today at 02:51:04 AM (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=61602.msg848171#msg848171)


>Quote from: sk2593@cornell.edu on January 21, 2016, 06:57:11 AM (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=61602.msg846771#msg846771)
Sandeep Kuthyar
Johnson Graduate School of Management
Cornell University, ...<snip>




Quote from: sk2593@cornell.edu on Today at 12:24:01 AM (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=61602.msg848117#msg848117)
I am software engineer not an electronics engineer.



Hey Sandeep, is there any chance you're one of those so called "Arduino Engineer" ?


Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: rx8pilot on January 22, 2016, 06:40:33 pm
OP deleted his opening post!

Not what I expected, but not surprised that he crumbled at the first sight of a challenge. Not so glad I wasted my time responding. He did send me a PM this AM instead of addressing the group, saying he never claimed that this was revolutionary. I remember different, but the first post is deleted so I cannot confirm that.

It is frustrating to see this wave of massively over-optimistic 'change the world' with a 'revolutionary' ideas bubbling to the surface. I totally applaud the enthusiasm, but for an idea to be monetized into a practical business it needs more than just a conversation followed by a post seeking partners on a public forum. If this guy is actually an MBA student or graduate at Cornell, it leaves me wondering WTF are they teaching for all that student loan money?

I guess as long as the schools are churning out dysfunctional graduates, I will have less competition to worry about. For an MBA to be worth more than a pack of gum, you need THICK SKIN, perseverance, tenacity, endurance, willingness. Those are personality traits that you do not learn from a book. Without those, you are just a guy who passed a test and has a paper to prove it.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: wraper on January 22, 2016, 06:48:09 pm
He did send me a PM this AM instead of addressing the group, saying he never claimed that this was revolutionary. I remember different, but the first post is deleted so I cannot confirm that.
He indeed did.
Quote
What we offer

•   The opportunity to revolutionize the rechargeable battery market
•   Equity, lots of it!
•   Initial hardware costs
•   Preliminary circuit design, online resources.
•   I will lead the software programming modules.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: rx8pilot on January 22, 2016, 06:56:35 pm
 :-+

My memory sub-system still works! Thanks for digging that up.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: SL4P on January 22, 2016, 10:26:51 pm
I wonder how Sandeep's going to explain the progress of this conversation to his partner - the other MBA?
It kinda easy to see the flag that he's not much good at either of his chosen professional activities - yet.
He still has a chance to grow and learn.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: SL4P on January 22, 2016, 10:36:25 pm
I wonder how Sandeep's going to explain the progress of this conversation to his partner - the other MBA?
It kinda easy to see the flag that he's not much good at either of his chosen professional activities - yet.
He still has a chance to grow and learn.
it sounds like he has been doing ok.  Stick to the software management.
Quote
BIO
As a business leader and IT technical manager my primary focus is to bring value to my organization, in the form of increased savings or/and increased revenue.

In my career I have been a software architect, programmer, IT strategist and manager. My breadth of experience allows me to see the full business and technical development process.

Expert in SaaS model, multi tenancy using a single instance of Application, and the technical details behind the class loaders etc.

Excellent experience in design and development of highly available and scalable Java/JEE n-tier applications and strong understanding of web services architecture, design and implementation.

Expertise in Enterprise Architecture, Strong Oracle skill, worked as a DBA , adept in PL/SQL development, SQL scripts tuning Data Base design

Responsible for management of P&L, organizational development, strategic planning for product engineering and hiring and retaining good talent

MBA from Cornell University and Masters in Information Technology.

Specialties: IT strategy, software design and development, agile practices, java and web technologies, systems integration, automated testing, and vendor relations.

Also LinkedIn page....
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeep-kuthyar-30935334 (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeep-kuthyar-30935334)
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: Corporate666 on January 22, 2016, 11:28:24 pm
I think the OP got flamed a bit harshly... his pitch was a lot better than the "lights in the sneaker" guy.  But that's just my view -  not saying it was a good idea, just he was starting from a better position than sneaker-dude.

But the good thing about flaming entrepreneurs (or would-be entrepreneurs) is that it really doesn't matter.  The good ones will succeed anyway and the ones who turn tail and run were never going to succeed anyway.  Not that turning tail and running is a sign of failure... there are times when you aren't achieving a result and it's better to cut your losses and bail out.. that time certainly came for the Cornell (or was it Stamford?) guy.  I wish him success and if he does have a good product it will work out.  Gotta work on the tech-jargon though :)
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: tggzzz on January 22, 2016, 11:32:56 pm
Also LinkedIn page....
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeep-kuthyar-30935334 (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeep-kuthyar-30935334)

So, experience in Java then SAP. Sounds like a classic case of someone that may (or may not) be expert in their field, that makes a fool of themselves in another field.

One famous case of that was Linus Pauling w.r.t. Vitamin C.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: SL4P on January 22, 2016, 11:35:47 pm
SAP, and Java.  aren't they both solutions to problems that didn't really exist?
But good marketing created a massive business opportunity

Begin religious wars here:
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: EEVblog on January 22, 2016, 11:48:39 pm
I think the OP got flamed a bit harshly...

Perhaps.
But ultimately the idea was a highly derivative non-starter with at best niche appeal.
That was obvious to anyone who knows anything about battery technology and it's use in products.
And the forum topic title does say:
Quote
Promote your crowd funded project here, just be ready for serious expert feedback.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: tggzzz on January 22, 2016, 11:49:48 pm
SAP, and Java.  aren't they both solutions to problems that didn't really exist?
But good marketing created a massive business opportunity

Begin religious wars here:

As I said, "sounds like a classic case of someone that may (or may not) be expert in their field, that makes a fool of themselves in another field".
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: Corporate666 on January 22, 2016, 11:59:58 pm
Perhaps.
But ultimately the idea was a highly derivative non-starter with at best niche appeal.
That was obvious to anyone who knows anything about battery technology and it's use in products.
And the forum topic title does say:

I didn't remember that he promoted it as revolutionary until RX8 pointed it out... I had a universal charger years ago that you just told it the cell type and it did the rest... so yeah, you're right... highly derivative.  And people here are distrustful of business-types and as you know, engineers LOVE to point out (in minute detail) the problems with anyone else's ideas (thinking back to your video editing posts and how some people loved to dwell on the technicalities)  :-DD
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: Simon on January 23, 2016, 08:36:39 am
If this guy is actually an MBA student or graduate at Cornell, it leaves me wondering WTF are they teaching for all that student loan money?

I guess as long as the schools are churning out dysfunctional graduates, I will have less competition to worry about.

Yep, I have a job despite no qualifications and had the pleasure of pretty much saying WTF? when the graduate our supplier employed moaned that he was not getting enough resolution from a sensor but refused to use all 10 bits on the ADC and insisted he could only use 8......  :-DD

While qualifications are an excellent tool they don't teach you to be a problem solver. You either are one or you are not.
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: tggzzz on January 23, 2016, 12:23:05 pm
While qualifications are an excellent tool they don't teach you to be a problem solver. You either are one or you are not.

Oh, I think you can be shown/taught how to be a problem solver, especially if you start before people are 11 :)
Title: Re: Withdrawn
Post by: Simon on January 23, 2016, 12:45:38 pm
While qualifications are an excellent tool they don't teach you to be a problem solver. You either are one or you are not.

Oh, I think you can be shown/taught how to be a problem solver, especially if you start before people are 11 :)

You mean if you grow up in the right environment  ;)