Author Topic: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter  (Read 166263 times)

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Offline midasgossye

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #225 on: December 23, 2013, 09:02:37 am »
I wanted to buy one, but the customs costs here in Belgium are very high.
For example:
1 uCurrent production unit: 79 AU$ + 12 AU$ postage = € 60
total cost: € 12 + VAT (21%)
(€ 60 + € 12)*1,21 = € 87
€ 87 = 133 AU$
Customs costs: € 27 = 41 AU$


« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 09:08:43 am by midasgossye »
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #226 on: December 23, 2013, 09:42:39 am »
I wanted to buy one, but the customs costs here in Belgium are very high.
For example:
1 uCurrent production unit: 79 AU$ + 12 AU$ postage = € 60
total cost: € 12 + VAT (21%)
(€ 60 + € 12)*1,21 = € 87
€ 87 = 133 AU$
Customs costs: € 27 = 41 AU$

Is there not a minimum value before they apply duty?  In the UK you don't pay Customs Duty until the value of the imported items hits £135; you just have to pay VAT on any item over £15. 

Annoyingly HMRC don't make the Customs Tariff available for free; you have to buy a subscription to it to find out how much duty they're likely to charge you...assuming you can even figure out what commodity code it's likely to come under (that information is free...but vaguely bewildering).
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #227 on: December 23, 2013, 11:00:33 am »
Annoyingly HMRC don't make the Customs Tariff available for free; you have to buy a subscription to it to find out how much duty they're likely to charge you...assuming you can even figure out what commodity code it's likely to come under (that information is free...but vaguely bewildering).

But the TARIC DB does include the tariffs. And since the UK is part of the EU's custom unit, HMRC (are they still called this?) should be bound by it.

My guess for the uCurrent would be goods nomenclature code 9030 33 10 90 http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Taric=9030331090 I.e, for import from some countries 0%, for others 4.2%.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 11:08:55 am by Bored@Work »
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Offline hikariuk

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #228 on: December 23, 2013, 01:04:49 pm »
My guess for the uCurrent would be goods nomenclature code 9030 33 10 90 http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Taric=9030331090 I.e, for import from some countries 0%, for others 4.2%.

Oh, helpful.  I think it would be 4.2%.  The 0% tariffs are mostly for EEA countries and countries the EU gives preferential treatment to (I think that's mostly less developed ex-European colony countries).

And they're still HMRC - that was their new name after HMCE merged with Inland Revenue.  I suspect the main reason for merging them was so that they could use HMCE's somewhat extensive powers.
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Offline eliocor

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #229 on: December 23, 2013, 01:28:56 pm »
the best thing (for EU people) would be doing like I suggested in my previous message:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/current-gold-on-kickstarter/msg349792/#msg349792
 

Offline baljemmett

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #230 on: December 23, 2013, 02:19:08 pm »
Annoyingly HMRC don't make the Customs Tariff available for free; you have to buy a subscription to it to find out how much duty they're likely to charge you...assuming you can even figure out what commodity code it's likely to come under (that information is free...but vaguely bewildering).

In addition to Bored's link, there's also https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff which lets you browse the tariff for free; there is a note pointing out that it might be at variance with the subscription version in which case the latter is correct, but it's good enough to avoid surprises in my experience.
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #231 on: December 23, 2013, 03:48:33 pm »
Annoyingly HMRC don't make the Customs Tariff available for free; you have to buy a subscription to it to find out how much duty they're likely to charge you...assuming you can even figure out what commodity code it's likely to come under (that information is free...but vaguely bewildering).

In addition to Bored's link, there's also https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff which lets you browse the tariff for free; there is a note pointing out that it might be at variance with the subscription version in which case the latter is correct, but it's good enough to avoid surprises in my experience.

Added to my bookmarks; cheers for that.  Once upon a time I could find things on the gov.uk site, back when it was open.gov.uk...
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Offline bookaboo

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #232 on: December 23, 2013, 06:37:01 pm »



the best thing (for EU people) would be doing like I suggested in my previous message:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/current-gold-on-kickstarter/msg349792/#msg349792

Annoyingly HMRC don't make the Customs Tariff available for free; you have to buy a subscription to it to find out how much duty they're likely to charge you...assuming you can even figure out what commodity code it's likely to come under (that information is free...but vaguely bewildering).

In addition to Bored's link, there's also https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff which lets you browse the tariff for free; there is a note pointing out that it might be at variance with the subscription version in which case the latter is correct, but it's good enough to avoid surprises in my experience.

I don't think there's any way around the VAT issue. It's pretty watertight if you are importing with correct paperwork. Importer will pay VAT and customs to the shipper at point of entry, if you havea VAT number you can claim it back. However if you then want to resell inside the EU you have to charge VAT yourself (unless the end buyer has a EU VAT number).
So in short, if you have an employer or friend who is VAT registered ask them to get if for you.

Custom duties, everyone pays. No refunds!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 06:46:52 pm by bookaboo »
 

Offline eliocor

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #233 on: December 23, 2013, 10:31:52 pm »
I don't think there's any way around the VAT issue. It's pretty watertight if you are importing with correct paperwork. Importer will pay VAT and customs to the shipper at point of entry, if you havea VAT number you can claim it back. However if you then want to resell inside the EU you have to charge VAT yourself (unless the end buyer has a EU VAT number).
So in short, if you have an employer or friend who is VAT registered ask them to get if for you.
Custom duties, everyone pays. No refunds!
I was not talking about evading VAT, but a BULK direct import to Europe of maybe 2-3 hundreds of µCurrent units and a reshipping from inside EU will save lots of importing duties/shipping costs/...
Even VAT is not equal in every EU state: here in Italy is 22%, instead in UK is 20% (I payed less my Flir E4 buying it from Omega because they were shipping from the UK: 800€+15€shipping+20%VAT=978€ total!). So several times here in Italy it can be cheaper buying abroad even if the shipping expenses are higher.
Those savings can be used to cover the costs an individual will occur: just as an example here in Italy I pay taxes and duties on the TOTAL amount (s/h included) I paid, not only on the simple value of the goods.
Taxes and duties also depend on how the inspector has awakened in the morning: once for the same two parcels (different addressee) shipped to the same city (Udine) and arrived the same day at customs, the difference of duties was of 10€ on the total amount to be paid (unfortunately it was me the unlucky one!).
I raised an official complain regarding this different treatment but the answer I got was of typical Italian bureaucracy: incomprehensible and no explanation at all on why they have done so. :(
So, I really do not want to evade VAT, but I'd like to pay the right amount of duties.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 10:33:33 pm by eliocor »
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #234 on: December 24, 2013, 12:06:31 pm »
I'm not sure if it would make a big saving. The S&H costs are fairly reasonable, I dont know what other EU countries costs are but I'd say to post a uCurrent well packaged from EU to EU is going to cost not much less than what Dave is.

Also the distributor will want 30% minimum markup.  Any savings and discounts will get eaten fairly quick.
 

Offline eliocor

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #235 on: December 24, 2013, 12:54:13 pm »
Please can you explain how I will be able (with smoothieboard) to not pay import duties and the shipping supplement as in the original offer (+15USD to cover s/h to Europe)?
If they were able to do it, I think there are some provisions to do it for the µCurrent GOLD too!!!
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #236 on: December 25, 2013, 12:53:14 pm »
Please can you explain how I will be able (with smoothieboard) to not pay import duties and the shipping supplement as in the original offer (+15USD to cover s/h to Europe)?
If they were able to do it, I think there are some provisions to do it for the µCurrent GOLD too!!!

Smothieboard is open hardware, just like the µCurrent, so anyone can make one - the Eagle files are available for download.  What you can additionally do is is ask for permission to manufacture and sell them under the Smoothieboard name, which is what Ipso Factio have done for the EU market. 

Dave could theoretically do the same thing, however that adds additional overhead for Dave because he'd now also need to keep an eye on the manufacturing quality of other people making µCurrent boards, to ensure they matched his standards; any duff manufacturing by a third party is going to reflect on him.  Although I suspect there are EU based people he'd trust do it - it's whether it's worth their while as well.

***

Actually I've just noticed he does do this, µCurrent is available from http://www.robot-italy.com/en/ucurrent-pre-built-tested.html - possibly µCurrent Gold will be too...
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 12:58:39 pm by hikariuk »
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Offline eliocor

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #237 on: December 25, 2013, 01:36:07 pm »
Smothieboard is open hardware, just like the µCurrent, so anyone can make one - the Eagle files are available for download.  What you can additionally do is is ask for permission to manufacture and sell them under the Smoothieboard name, which is what Ipso Factio have done for the EU market. 
Sorry to correct you, but the board (to my knowledge) is being produced only in the USA and will be bulk shipped and imported in EU.
Costs will be reduced (only one shipping and import) and the savings will full cover for the shipping(from USA)/importing (to EU)/reshipping (to EU customers)/VAT expenses.
 

Offline petertux

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #238 on: December 27, 2013, 06:46:31 am »
ok, I pledged for the new device - although I was pretty happy with the old revision too.

but why is there still no soft latching power-on circuit in these uCurrents? because that tiny battery drains out if the device was left on overnight (happened to me twice).

I always forget my Fluke started but I really care less, since it will go into standby after a few minutes. It would be nice if the uCurrent would do the same.

cheers,
peter
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #239 on: December 27, 2013, 07:01:32 am »
but why is there still no soft latching power-on circuit in these uCurrents? because that tiny battery drains out if the device was left on overnight (happened to me twice).
I always forget my Fluke started but I really care less, since it will go into standby after a few minutes. It would be nice if the uCurrent would do the same.

Because it would need to sense the output voltage and reset the timer. Not a trivial amount of circuitry to add to essentially a single sided SMD layout.
If you are concerned about battery life, you can use 3xAAA's or a CR123 battery for greatly increased life.
 

Offline petertux

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #240 on: December 27, 2013, 07:32:42 am »
Because it would need to sense the output voltage and reset the timer. Not a trivial amount of circuitry to add to essentially a single sided SMD layout.
If you are concerned about battery life, you can use 3xAAA's or a CR123 battery for greatly increased life.

I see what you mean. would it be too late to add to your pcb something like an unpopulated MOLEX 0532610471 pad? there would be no need to change the stencils.
this connector would have +BT1, -V, VGND and VOUT signals in any order. this would allow an easy way to mod your device.

I intend to do a small open-hardware msp430 based project that would control the power delivery to the uCurrent.

later edit:
I put together a github repo with my initial thoughts. it is available here: https://github.com/rodan/ucurrent_ctrl

quick schematic is here: https://raw.github.com/rodan/ucurrent_ctrl/master/hardware/schematic.png
and pcb: https://raw.github.com/rodan/ucurrent_ctrl/master/hardware/board.png
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 12:02:46 pm by petertux »
 

Offline MadModder

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #241 on: December 27, 2013, 03:35:23 pm »
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. ;)
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #242 on: December 27, 2013, 04:29:06 pm »
but why is there still no soft latching power-on circuit in these uCurrents? because that tiny battery drains out if the device was left on overnight (happened to me twice).
I always forget my Fluke started but I really care less, since it will go into standby after a few minutes. It would be nice if the uCurrent would do the same.

Because it would need to sense the output voltage and reset the timer. Not a trivial amount of circuitry to add to essentially a single sided SMD layout.
If you are concerned about battery life, you can use 3xAAA's or a CR123 battery for greatly increased life.
Actually pretty trivial - a 6-pin PIC and maybe something to switch the power (may be possible to power everything off an I/O pin). You'd probably save the cost by not needing the battery voltage monitor, and could add an overrange indicator by flashing the LED. e.g. PIC10LF320 SOT-23-6 US$0.36 including factory programming, ink-dot marking and re-reeling.
You could even save the cost of an on/off switch by using a touch button.

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Offline fs

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #243 on: December 27, 2013, 05:06:42 pm »
Hi Dave, any chance of a few more Signature Editions?  eg: "LATE SIGNATURE EDITION" ? :)  I'm kinda late to the party, but would be very happy to upgrade to a higher pledge-point... you've gotta have some other stuff you could throw in along with some signed, hand-assembled uCurrents, to create another pledge level for those of that want to give a bit more money, but that have a lot less money than sense :)

Cheers!
Drat.  Missed 'em again (announced at 4:50am local time).  Oh well :/  Glad the campaign went well (gangbusters?) for you.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 05:17:08 pm by fs »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #244 on: December 27, 2013, 08:03:21 pm »
You do know an elephant is a mouse designed by a committee of course............

Basic, simple and does the thing printed on the tin, noting much more. If you want larger battery unsolder the coin holder and solder wires, or have both in parallel and chose which cell you use.
 

Offline Ryano

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #245 on: December 27, 2013, 11:55:22 pm »
Congratulations Dave! Up by roughly an order of magnitude! And I haven't even upped my pledge beyond the "Dave needs chocolate" level yet.   :bullshit:
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #246 on: December 28, 2013, 12:15:50 am »
Can't you just stop the campaign at a certain number? If you want to avoid buying another reel of parts for just a few needed.
I heard you talking about the "pit of despair" on the Amp-hour and surely you are standing precipitously on the edge now at 974. I am assuming that 1000 is the reorder point for a new reel.

Yes, but I need to manufacture more anyway for further sales through the dealers.
 

Offline hiddensoul

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #247 on: December 28, 2013, 12:19:32 am »
Okay I am in, my XYL just put it on her CC for me as mine is tapped out  :(
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #248 on: December 28, 2013, 12:20:49 am »
Can't you just stop the campaign at a certain number?
You can put quantity limits on all rewards if you want.
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Offline Fsck

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Re: µCurrent GOLD on Kickstarter
« Reply #249 on: December 28, 2013, 07:56:26 am »
I wonder if this project will have the lowest ratios of: $raised/comments and backers/comments on kickstarter.

the popularity is pretty surprising and awesome though.
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