EEZ Bench Box 3 - Sequel to EEZ H24005

[prasimix]

It's now official: the campaign start is scheduled for today at 3pm PST (for less then 9 hours). Thanks in advance to all who is going to support this project (as indirectly the EEZ Studio, too).

[prasimix]

https://www.crowdsupply.com/envox/eez-bb3/updates/our-campaign-is-live

[chriswebb]

Backed the early bird version!

Looked like they were going pretty quickly. I will need to purchase a third module to complete the enclosure right? Do you have any general recommendations for most useful option? Does the dual output work with the DCP405 modules? Or only with the B variant?

[prasimix]

Many thanks for support. Any combination of three modules is possible (that's the whole idea of modularity and firmware will recognize what is inserted and simply start to use it. Please note that only DCP405 or DCP405B could be coupled in series or parallel on first two slots. I don't know what to suggest as third module, it depends: if you need more channels with lower capability and precision then DCM220 is probably is fine. If you need better overall performance that you should probably go with DCP405B or DCP405.

[Helix70]

Is there a kit to upgrade an existing H24005 to the EEZ Bench Box 3? Do they use the same AC/DC power supplies and are the modules reuseable? Is it the same case with a new front panel/screen/microcontroller?

[Rerouter]

Got mine ordered. But never saw any update emails

[prasimix]

Is there a kit to upgrade an existing H24005 to the EEZ Bench Box 3? Do they use the same AC/DC power supplies and are the modules reuseable? Is it the same case with a new front panel/screen/microcontroller?

AC/DC modules are the only part that could be reused from H24005. Everything else (even the DC fan) are different. Therefore a sort of upgrade kit would not save a lot.

[Ranayna]

Now that the campaign has started, two questions occurred to me:

1. For backers from the EU, can you ship locally? I my opinion it makes little sense to ship your stuff to the USA and then back to me, not to mention the possible tax/import implications.
2. Regarding the Kit: Are there any components that would provide major difficulty regarding had-soldering? BGAs or chips with thermal pads? Am I correct to assume that the MCU is amongst the most challenging components to solder?

[prasimix]

Now that the campaign has started, two questions occurred to me:

1. For backers from the EU, can you ship locally? I my opinion it makes little sense to ship your stuff to the USA and then back to me, not to mention the possible tax/import implications.

The same "issue" we had with last campaign. But last time CS wasn't part of the Mouser and they didn't use their logistics that is doing all clearance at least for EU, etc. Under Fulfillment & Logistics you can find this:

VAT and Customs
Crowd Supply pre-pays VAT (GST) and pre-clears customs for all packages shipped to all EU countries, Switzerland, Australia, and Canada. This means the package is delivered directly to the backer's door without the need for the backer to deal with a customs house. For all other countries, the appropriate commercial invoices and customs information is provided with the package, but the backer is responsible for paying any duties and, if necessary, working with their local customs house.
The exact duties levied on a particular package depend on several factors, including the Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS) codes of its contents. Crowd Supply will help classify your products with the correct HTS code.

2. Regarding the Kit: Are there any components that would provide major difficulty regarding had-soldering? BGAs or chips with thermal pads? Am I correct to assume that the MCU is amongst the most challenging components to solder?

No QFN or BGA package are present in any modules. However, DCP405/DCP405B has two, and DCM220 has one IC with thermal pad. So far I didn't have any problem to solder them with assistance of the cheapest hot air workstation. Additionally, you can find on the bottom layer that soldering mask is removed beneath that ICs. Therefore you can put additional solder if you are not confident in hot air result.
Since MCU comes in package with exposed pins, total number of pins doesn't make any difference, all what you need is to fix it on 2-3 pins and than proceed with soldering rest. In fact a great fun if you ask me.

[pylo]

The same "issue" we had with last campaign. But last time CS wasn't part of the Mouser and they didn't use their logistics that is doing all clearance at least for EU, etc. Under Fulfillment & Logistics you can find this:

VAT and Customs
Crowd Supply pre-pays VAT (GST) and pre-clears customs for all packages shipped to all EU countries, Switzerland, Australia, and Canada. This means the package is delivered directly to the backer's door without the need for the backer to deal with a customs house.

If I understand this correctly, that's a real shame. And the way I understand it is that CS will make the VAT+TAX payment easy because they (their logistics partner) will front it, but we backers still have to pay them. And I doubt it'd be any other way: for example, the two-channel basic kit costs 599$ (including the 45$ shipping fee to EU), so the BB3 suddenly costs 713$ (with 19% VAT added) instead of the pledge price of 554$ for somebody in Germany. That's a huge difference. And some countries in the EU have much higher VAT (Hungary for example has 27%). My point is, CS will obviously not take over a fee this high.

What bothers me is not that we have to pay these fees. What bothers me is that we wouldn't have to if you shipped directly within the EU.

[prasimix]

If I ship it to you directly from Croatia, and you cannot provide valid company VAT number I have to charge you local 25% VAT anyway that is still a little bit lower then Hungarian, but much higher then German.

[prasimix]

We're halfway there! Thanks for spreading a word and support...

[pylo]

Well, that's only the case if we cannot give you a company VAT. I assume many of us here could, though surely not everybody. I think the problem lays probably with how CS intervenes, as we are paying to CS and not to you, so that's probably what makes it unworkable.

By the way, very cool product and I wish you good luck. I already told everybody in the company about it   As for me, when I wanted to buy the H24005 about two years ago, it wasn't available anymore, so I had to buy myself a different lab supply from somewhere else. It is only because of this that I am still contemplating if I should back a BB3 or not, because I don't really need a 2nd supply. But the BB3 is very good value and has great features, and if you bring out the other extensions modules in the future, it should be almost unbeatable.

By the way: When do you expect to bring out the other extension modules? I am most interested in the 2Q DC-module if it allows me to avoid buying a separate electronic load. Not to mention all the things I could do with it with some firmware hacking... If that modules happens somewhere in the foreseeable future, that alone could justify buying a BB3 for me, even though I already have a lab supply.

[prasimix]

Well, that's only the case if we cannot give you a company VAT. I assume many of us here could, though surely not everybody. I think the problem lays probably with how CS intervenes, as we are paying to CS and not to you, so that's probably what makes it unworkable.

That's right.

By the way, very cool product and I wish you good luck. I already told everybody in the company about it   As for me, when I wanted to buy the H24005 about two years ago, it wasn't available anymore, so I had to buy myself a different lab supply from somewhere else. It is only because of this that I am still contemplating if I should back a BB3 or not, because I don't really need a 2nd supply. But the BB3 is very good value and has great features, and if you bring out the other extensions modules in the future, it should be almost unbeatable.

Many thanks for good wishes!

The main reason why I gave up from H24005 is limited modularity (and that Chinese guys didn't realize yet that it is worth cloning, so you cannot buy it anywhere )
The BB3 address that to fair extent with this first chassis that could accept up to three modules that are not necessary DC power sources only.

By the way: When do you expect to bring out the other extension modules? I am most interested in the 2Q DC-module if it allows me to avoid buying a separate electronic load. Not to mention all the things I could do with it with some firmware hacking... If that modules happens somewhere in the foreseeable future, that alone could justify buying a BB3 for me, even though I already have a lab supply.

He, he, I'm thinking about 4Q power module almost from the very beginning of the EEZ adventure. I do believe that its time is coming, first as 2Q (dissipative) module, then as 2Q bidirectional module and finally a 4Q that could used as a SMU. In parallel I'm dreaming about DC power analyzer with 6-channel simultaneous A/D converter (1 x Vin + 2 x Iin, 1 x Vout + 2 x Iout). So, a two current range with continuous sampling on both ranges where firmware will pick relevant range depending of measured current.

The good thing is that we made our "homework" on the firmware and software side so that one could count on rich GUI on TFT touchscreen and PC side for all modules that are coming. If we succeed with campaign will come into position to continue production of all BB3 parts offering in kit but also fully assembled form (we have to pass CE/FCC certification that should start next month) and extend its feature with new modules.

[prasimix]

I couldn't stand not to say what Bunnie, a great guy who already did a lot for open source/hardware community, said:

https://twitter.com/bunniestudios/status/1197503114246414336

[jbb]

A tweet from Bunnie!  Win!

I've been looking forward to this coming out, so I better get my skates on and order one of these before they sell out...

Do you have any limits on the quantity you'll sell?  (I heard that some campaigns ran into trouble when they planned for 500, got 3500 orders, and found their suppliers and logistics couldn't keep up...)

[prasimix]

Thanks for the good wishes regarding the final quantity:)
Everything is scheduled for min. 200 units and both of major contractors (enclosure and PCBA) are eager to hear about a 1000 units order (sounds more like wishful thinking for me)! Currently there is a couple of parts with longer lead time (i.e. MCU and power switch) but still the first delivery should remain at a safe 200 units.
I'm not sure that any campaign so far on CS has experienced such an unexpected turn, e.g. that it was planned, as you say, 500 and ended up with 3500. Such success stories happen on Kickstarter and Indiegogo where all media attention is (it seems to me that CS is non existent, people never heard of them, and Alexa ranking, if is accurate, can confirm that). We'll see if I made a mistake this time when I didn't try to organize everything at least on Indiegogo (or indirectly, through an agent even on Kickstarter).

[Ranayna]

Well, i ordered a kit.
I now see myself pouring over the BOMs in the next weeks and taking hours to order all the required components 

[jbb]

I hope you get a good number of orders.  Including one from me :-)

[knapik]

Really cool project and very interested in backing this. I don't have the money to back an entire kit unfortunately, so I may buy the kit and try to build it myself.

[prasimix]

Thanks. When you mention the kit version I assume you mean BB3 Enclosure & Bare Boards. Please note that it does include just few parts (i.e. TFT display, and cooling fan that belongs to wire harness) and all other you have to source by yourself. It should be a big problem since I've prepared detailed BOMs (already available on the GitHub).
Hand soldering should also not be a problem at all: quite the opposite, a very fun process. No QFN or BGA packages, just a few tiny ICs (but with exposed pins) and a couple of them with a thermal pad. I soldered all my prototypes by hand, without stencil, reflow oven, etc.

[knapik]

Yep the bare boards is what I was referring to in the latter (probably shouldn't have referred to both products as "kits"). Don't worry, I have good soldering skills, its just that building the boards myself allows me to pay for the entire project incrementally.

[prasimix]

Great, don't hesitate to contact me when adventure begins!

[Ranayna]

By the way, a question in regards to the Kit.
Will we be able to order proper face plates for the modules from you? Getting the holes into a blank plate is one thing, but nice labeling is another

Otherwise, would it be an option to publish gerbers for a pcb as faceplate?

EDIT: And huge  for the 1click BOMs. Those are great 

[prasimix]

By the way, a question in regards to the Kit.
Will we be able to order proper face plates for the modules from you? Getting the holes into a blank plate is one thing, but nice labeling is another

Three predrilled module front panels are included: 2 x DCP405 and 1 x DCM220. Therefore no need for drilling

Otherwise, would it be an option to publish gerbers for a pcb as faceplate?

Very good idea, but has to be made on PCB 2 mm thick what shouldn't be an issue.