Author Topic: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project  (Read 22878 times)

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Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2015, 12:51:20 pm »
Quote
Taken from actual prototypes that made the ultimate sacrificed in the quest for change! As we melt them, you get them based on the time you pledge. Mounted, signed and dated by the Team, these parts should make one heck of a conversation piece!

So a melted computer part... for $1000.  :o (It'll make a great conversation with my pet rock lol  :'( )

When I could buy two entire life works of salvaged parts for that price (and some of them work, too!)...
(referring to EEVBlog #737 - World's Biggest Collection Of Electronics Components)

I wonder how many rocks could you have bought for the $4 you paid for your pet rock? Gary Dahl sold 1.5 million of them at roughly $4 each (in 70s dollars!) by the time the craze ended, BTW... amazing.

Selling melted computer parts is not the point, but I'm sure you knew that.

Did you have a technical question?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 12:53:21 pm by ltorsini »
 

Offline m12lrpv

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2015, 01:55:52 am »
While the physics of utilizing the heat from processing is sound, the practical marketability and implementation is not.

When you consider what a data center actually does for it's customers, only a small percentage of it is directly relates to CPU cycles.

Storage and network bandwidth/latency are the major components and at present this product does not appear to provide anything positive in those areas with it's suggestion of moving the processing into peoples homes.

You cannot move the storage and you cannot run the necessary level of high bandwidth/low latency network infrastructure into everyone's home hot water system (or wherever you want to utilise the heat).

This is just another scam.
 

Offline Delta

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2015, 12:30:09 am »

Did you have a technical question?

How many MIPS per kW do your machines produce?
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2015, 01:30:27 pm »
While the physics of utilizing the heat from processing is sound, the practical marketability and implementation is not.

When you consider what a data center actually does for it's customers, only a small percentage of it is directly relates to CPU cycles.

Storage and network bandwidth/latency are the major components and at present this product does not appear to provide anything positive in those areas with it's suggestion of moving the processing into peoples homes.

You cannot move the storage and you cannot run the necessary level of high bandwidth/low latency network infrastructure into everyone's home hot water system (or wherever you want to utilise the heat).


This is just another scam.


Thanks for your undoubtedly learned opinion.  Of course you can move the storage, Maidsafe is already beginning to transform that market.  Read the thread - all of this is covered. 

 :blah:

I've wanted a reason to use this icon, this seems like the perfect opportunity.
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2015, 01:47:42 pm »
Well guys, it has been a couple week of fun but I am going to bow out of the discussion at this point since the technical questions seem to have reached a finish and cycled back to repeating the same.  I'd encourage the 'technical' people to reach out through the website if you have some real questions that aren't answered in the thread - please don't bother with miles per gallon and MIPS/kW, they are irrelevant design features at this stage of development.

Feel free to join me in London at the DEVCON Conference the week of the 9th and the DCD Converged conference the 18th - 20th, I'll be on a panel discussion of this topic as well as presenting the project - I'm looking for a few good hecklers.

Andy, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things - would be great to bump into you when I'm in the UK.

Thanks
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2015, 04:30:17 pm »
please don't bother with miles per gallon and MIPS/kW, they are irrelevant design features at this stage of development.

Absolutely not, that's the key to this whole thing.  If this machine takes 2kW to do the same amount of work as an ordinary 100W desktop then the entire project is a waste of time.  The users would be better served buying an ordinary desktop for their computation needs and a standard 2kW resistive heater for their heating needs.

If your machine actually does 2kW of work (similar MIPS/FLOPS per watt to a modern efficient processor) then the project might actually have some merit.
 

Offline m12lrpv

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2015, 01:18:22 am »
While the physics of utilizing the heat from processing is sound, the practical marketability and implementation is not.

When you consider what a data center actually does for it's customers, only a small percentage of it is directly relates to CPU cycles.

Storage and network bandwidth/latency are the major components and at present this product does not appear to provide anything positive in those areas with it's suggestion of moving the processing into peoples homes.

You cannot move the storage and you cannot run the necessary level of high bandwidth/low latency network infrastructure into everyone's home hot water system (or wherever you want to utilise the heat).


This is just another scam.


Thanks for your undoubtedly learned opinion.  Of course you can move the storage, Maidsafe is already beginning to transform that market.  Read the thread - all of this is covered. 

 :blah:

I've wanted a reason to use this icon, this seems like the perfect opportunity.

Do you even know what maidsafe is? It's not not relevant to the bulk of corporate data centre usage. No sane company would trust their corporate date to that. It shows that you really don't comprehend the market's. No surprise really.

Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2015, 09:00:54 pm »
If this company hires people to do product engineering as well as they hire people to do PR outreach, they're doomed. Why on earth would anyone give money to someone who's that much of a dick.
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #83 on: October 24, 2015, 09:04:10 pm »
Thanks Nerull,

We're really not looking for approval, just hoping to pass along some real information about the project.

Any more technical questions, Guys?

You're not looking for approval, you're just begging for money. If you think that insulting everyone you come across is a good way to do it, you're in for a shock.
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #84 on: November 22, 2015, 04:59:51 am »
Hey there gents.  Just a last quick follow up after the DCD London conference to let you know that it went stunningly well.  The attendees were very engaged and had an immediate recognition of the merit and potential of combined heat and computation.  We'll be talking with IBMs OpenPOWER foundation in the next couple of weeks about the project and have already been invited to present at next year's event. 

I do want to thank you for the conversation, it did solidify a number of thoughts I'd had prior to engaging at the conference.  Jacques, you'll be happy to know that a research paper has spawned after conversation about developing a more holistic and realistic accounting for water/energy as it relates to datacenter energy consumption.  There was a number of fairly pointed conversations about shifting energy off the books to create the impression of a lower PUE during the conference.  I don't think anyone thought it was nefarious in intent but it seems the value of a more realistic PUE number - and the dollars that represents in fair marketing - is at least a serious conversation.

Nerull, I'm going to leave you to your echo chamber and wish you good luck in all endeavors.  Just keep in mind we're still not looking for your approval.    :-+



 

Offline Delta

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #85 on: November 22, 2015, 10:16:44 pm »
How.
Many.
MIPS.
Per
kW?

 :-//
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #86 on: November 23, 2015, 02:00:25 am »
How.
Many.
MIPS.
Per
kW?

 :-//

please don't bother with miles per gallon and MIPS/kW, they are irrelevant design features at this stage of development.
In other words, he doesn't give a shit if this contraption is even a reasonably viable alternative to a typical resistive heater, he's just after the paycheck.
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2015, 02:08:21 pm »
How.
Many.
MIPS.
Per
kW?

 :-//

Okay, persistence wins, I'll give it one last shot. 

MIPS/kW are, by and large, an irrelevant measure of compute performance that are generally disregarded for several reasons. 

  • Firstly they vary dramatically by workload vs system architecture, this is obvious when you consider high performance ASIC are optimized for specific workloads and virtually useless for anything but that workload. Given this MIPS are not, at all, an effective measure of the usability of a generic machine that will see different workloads that may or may not be optimized for its architecture.
  • The system we are designing can run many different processors so MIPS/kW is - again- a design feature and one we are not at all focused on at this time.  How many MIPS do you want to make? Tell me the processor you want to use and the workload you will be using and the system can be optimized for those parameters... it is a design feature.
  • the system varies voltage and clock speeds depending on temperature making the MIPS/kW performance a curve based on those variables - this is why we are focused on optimizing the thermal systems and not irrelevant design features - the more efficient the thermal systems the more variability we'll have for optimizing compute performance

Thanks-
 


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