Author Topic: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project  (Read 22857 times)

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Offline JacquesBBB

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Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« on: February 12, 2015, 09:53:47 pm »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/projectexergy/project-exergy-darehenry?ref=discovery

Obviously, these guys have no idea of what there are speaking about.

Many of the new big computer centers use very efficient free cooling  systems, where the
cooling is made by direct ventilations, with eventually some water evaporation  help.

As an example,   I run a  2000 core system with a 1.04 PUE which means that the cooling cost is only 4% of the
effective computer cost, compared to the 40-60 % this guy is mentioning. It is some
similar efficient cooling that is used by the facebook data centers.

They also seems to underestimate that they will need to  evacuate the heat he will produce with
their high temperature computer.  I cannot believe he already has raised 34000$.

Hopefully, they will not  get  funded, but  it is not sure as they seems to  be quite a lot of illuminate people
all around that are easy preys for such bullshit project.
 

Offline gregallenwarner

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 09:59:40 pm »
Why would I want this? I already have a device that uses my computer's generated heat to heat my room. It's called a CPU heatsink, and I can tell you it does a good job based on the blisteringly hot temperatures my office can reach after my PC's been on for a while.
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 10:09:28 pm »
Yes,  he also forgot to say what does he do with all this heat in  summer
when you want to cool the temperature of your  house.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 11:16:45 pm »
Sorry, but am I right in thinking they will save energy by using purposely inefficient computers as glorified bar heaters?
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Offline FrankenPC

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 04:45:16 am »
I wish I could find the link...someone was working on some kind of new nano wire thermo-electric generator for use in automobiles so on board electronics can be powered without a need to beef up the alternator or battery.  I have to find that article.

Regardless, I DO wonder if this nano-wire tech could be used with electronics heat sources to re-capture energy.  Usable electricity is WAY more useful than just heat in practical applications.

EDIT:  Here it is:  http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/199022-nanowire-breakthrough-could-recycle-vehicle-exhaust-improve-car-efficiency

The article does imply that it requires a lot of heat over a large surface area (the whole exhaust) system.  Tiny amounts of heat from a PC just won't cut it.
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Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 07:25:25 am »
It is so outrageous that i believe now that it is a hoax. Probably they started with 20 or 30 % of fake donations to try to grab the remaing part.
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 09:10:41 am »
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 09:14:56 am by frenky »
 

Offline electr_peter

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 12:53:41 pm »
Three comments:
  • solar roadways type bullshit :bullshit:
  • good marketing
  • stupid market base to buy into stupid things
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 02:21:41 pm »
The concept of using waste heat from some useful process (eg. running a CPU) in place of pure ohmic heating as in an electric bar fire, is a good one. The total amount of heat produced from running a 500W computer is, as anyone with a basic understanding of physics knows, exactly the same as a 500W ohmic heater - so to convert electrical power straight into heat without it doing something else useful in the process is always missing out on an opportunity to get something for nothing. (Not energy, of course, but 'usefulness').

It's a shame this is so poorly understood, by the people who propose these schemes and those who back them. The lack of elementary knowledge about heat, temperature and energy here is staggering, and the fact that they'd announce it so clearly in public, embarrassing.

I had an idea years ago to use the waste heat from a desktop CPU to brew coffee. If a CPU draws 100W and can run with a water cooling system at, say, 90 deg C, then there should be enough heat available (and at a high enough temperature) to heat water for coffee via a heat exchanger. The whole lot could be built into the PC case, and would be the first genuinely fit-for-purpose "developer's" PC ever made, IMHO.

Offline Dave Turner

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2015, 03:14:56 pm »
I could just imagine the tap/faucet being right over the keyboard.  :-DD
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 04:28:26 pm »
TL;DR.  What do they claim to do? 

I stopped the video half way when the kids started dancing. The pledges give nothing real in return and yet they have $500 average pledge.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2015, 05:27:48 pm »
TL;DR.  What do they claim to do? 

As Mechanical Menace said, they're basically talking about purposely using an inefficient computer to generate heat, using a heat exchanger to capture it, and then pumping it through a house for central heating (or cooling, apparently?)

It's basically just doing something "useful" (number crunching, cloud computing, etc.) with that electrical power in the process of turning it to heat for heating, rather than just pumping it through an ohmic heater.
 

Offline ConKbot

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2015, 12:16:47 am »
Quote
super energy efficient and energy productive by capturing and storing up to 95% of the heat generated by the internal components.

Where does the other 5% of the energy go?  :o Heresy

And crap for efficiency too :p

http://www.walmart.com/ip/FRIGIDAIRE-FFRH12222-Window-A-C-w-Heat-12K-Btu-208-230V-G5332381/41269944

11,000 btu/H or 3200 watts of heat out, with only an 1100 from the wall :p

And you actually get it instead of some vaguely related trinket!
 

Offline janaf

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2015, 02:42:38 pm »
DareHenry by Project Exergy Team, looks like selling magic heat to me. Can't see this making any sense at all from an energy point of view.

But if you pledge 10 grand you get:

"Corporate Sponsor - Your company logo will be prominently displayed on our website, select marketing materials and prototypes clearly showing your support of the quest to evolve the way energy is consumed. You’ll receive a commemorative signed and numbered heat exchanger ‘plaque’ suitable for display. Based on the design our partners at the Clark County Skills Center created, this plaque illustrates the power ideas and innovation have to engage people in creating solutions to some of our biggest problems. We'll want to work closely with you as the product develops to drive a sustainable and profitable future for us all."
my2C
Jan
 

Offline gregallenwarner

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2015, 03:27:35 pm »
DareHenry by Project Exergy Team, looks like selling magic heat to me. Can't see this making any sense at all from an energy point of view.

But if you pledge 10 grand you get:

"Corporate Sponsor - Your company logo will be prominently displayed on our website, select marketing materials and prototypes clearly showing your support of the quest to evolve the way energy is consumed. You’ll receive a commemorative signed and numbered heat exchanger ‘plaque’ suitable for display. Based on the design our partners at the Clark County Skills Center created, this plaque illustrates the power ideas and innovation have to engage people in creating solutions to some of our biggest problems. We'll want to work closely with you as the product develops to drive a sustainable and profitable future for us all."

So basically, for ten thousand dollars, you get your logo on some guy's random website that will rapidly fade into obscurity, and a sign you can hang on your wall. Sounds legit.
 

Offline janaf

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2015, 03:32:01 pm »
Well, you get "select marketing materials" too!  :-DD
my2C
Jan
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2015, 01:42:05 am »
Well... Should I dive in here and straighten this out or are you all so KS jaded it is not worth the time?

Lawrence
 

Offline JimRemington

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2015, 02:50:40 am »
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Well... Should I dive in here and straighten this out
You mean pile on more bullshit?
Good to see that this scam was cancelled!
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2015, 03:37:13 am »
It was moved to IndieGoGo.  As far as bullshit goes, we were final 4 out of more than 100 applicants for 3mil in DoE funding and presented in DC to a panel of industry experts.  We are partnered with a national lab, the Fraunhofer institute and Notre Dame on that proposal.  I'm more than happy to pass along some facts about the actual concept, less interested in jousting with a board of trolling armchair engineers...

;-)

What will it be? Do you have some actual questions about the project?
 

Offline matseng

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2015, 03:52:04 am »
I've got a question....  Why did you cancel the campaign on the (atleast) semi-reputable Kickstarter and go over to the motherlode-of-all-scams Indiegogo?
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2015, 02:10:23 pm »
First and foremost the campaign was more about marketing than it was about funding and it was very successful at putting the concept in the hands of the media.  But as evidenced by the thread above and numerous others we've engaged since the KS campaign, this is a very technically complex concept that is likely not well suited for consumer sales. Incidentally, the German company Cloud & Heat ran into the same issue when they tried a crowdfunding campaign on Seedmatch.

Since then we have been working with focus groups, technical and non technical, to find a quicker path to comprehension but we're not quite there yet.  The engagement we got on KS was actually pretty surprising but some of the interactions with the KS staff made us concerned enough about the platform to halt the campaign.  It was the request of several backers that prompted us to reopen the campaign on IndieGoGo.

Beyond that, Kickstarter is primarily a platform for selling low cost, high risk of delivery trinkets and we are likely not selling a low cost consumer appliance anytime soon.  We like the idea of crowdfunding campaigns but this technology is expensive enough, at least in the early stages, that it probably won't be a good fit for KS. That said, we're still in the R&D phase for likely another year or so as we develop/test the computing appliance, thermal storage and desiccant cooling systems so we haven't made a determination about the ideal launch market.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2015, 05:38:00 pm »
Quote
... it was very successful at putting the concept in the hands of the media.

Just like any other bullshit product. This statement speaks no of a campain's ability to deliver.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline JimRemington

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2015, 08:28:42 pm »
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less interested in jousting with a board of trolling armchair engineers...
Ouch, that sure hurts!
But I understand, it is certainly easier and less work to fool nontechnical people.
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2015, 08:45:14 pm »
"But I understand, it is certainly easier and less work to fool nontechnical people."

Still haven't heard a single technical question.  Let me know if anyone here actually has an understanding of thermodynamics and interest in engaging, more than happy to educate 'technical' people.
 

Offline ltorsini

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Re: Exergy, another Bullshit "save the world" project
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2015, 10:04:18 pm »
"Just like any other bullshit product. This statement speaks no of a campain's ability to deliver."

We delivered everything we promised, Bud. 

You obviously didn't read the campaign?
 


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