Author Topic: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*  (Read 44429 times)

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Offline notzippy

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Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« on: May 29, 2013, 10:27:31 pm »
What do you think of the specs on this watch, is it possible ?
http://igg.me/at/orsto-x1-smart-watch/x/1733288

1ghz CPU, wont exactly be the snappiest android device you own but it should run ok, what surprised me was the built in support for wifi, BTLE, NFC, GPS along with Cell support (talk about a james bond watch) - of course running android will be devastating for the battery life and they did not overstate the battery life claiming 1-2 days normal use up to 10 days "standby use"

I have emailed the campaign owner and asked the following
Quote
will the bootloader be unlockable and the source for it available to be downloaded ?
The reply was
Quote
Yes it will. That is our plan. Verstaility we believe is key.






There are more images on the campaign page
http://igg.me/at/orsto-x1-smart-watch/x/1733288

So is this a work of fiction ? or a possibility ?

thanks for your input
Nz
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 05:21:47 am by notzippy »
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 11:56:40 pm »
Dodgy as hell I would say and flexible funding so they up GPB 8800 already.

You might check the company director Paul Gill and the list of dissolved companies he and (presumably) his wife have directed :-

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/911296879
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/911221436
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/908490508





 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 12:14:44 am »
I would not invest in this product, person or company.

Here's why...

First, everything is renderings - they have nothing to show.  How do they know the watch will be 6.5mm thin + 2.9mm bulge in the center?  They could only know that if they have already made one and worked out the bugs.  But if they have already made one, why not show it? 

Second, we do all our own metalworking in our manufacturing facility here.  I work with titanium extensively and I buy a lot of it.  He claims the watch will be made from Ti and shows pictures of it being machined.  Well, Ti is expensive.  I bet I get a lot better price than he does on it, and without doing much calculation, there is a not-insignificant cost just in the titanium.  And it will need either cast, formed or machined.  Casting and forming require large up-front costs in tooling.  Machining does not.  Off the cuff, if someone came to me and wanted those cases machined, they would be looking at maybe $80-100USD easily, probably more. 

Third, there are all sorts of other add-ons to the above... an embedded mini-stylus, buttons, ports for a camera/flash, etc?  All those tiny parts add a ton to the cost.

Fourth, I simply do not believe he can fit an LCD, PCB with MCU/memory, Wifi+Bluetooth+NFC+USB modules/ports, camera+flash, speaker and all the rest into a housing that small.  Absolutely no way in hell.  Not to mention audio jack, inductive charging pickup, microphone, etc, etc.  I would be shocked if Samsung came out with a product of this size and those specs... let alone an independent with no discernible prior experience.

Fifth, I looked at their company registration and Orsto was formed just this year and registered to a "business park" in Durham (not the one shown on their website).  Google Maps shows a row of roll-up garage doors, looking more like a run-down self-storage area.  And that unit (#20) is registered to some garage door company.  His Orsto website shows another business location that appears to be one of those "rent a meeting room for a day" type places with managed offices (where you can often rent a few square meters for a pittance each month).  So this is not exactly a major operation the guy is running.


So based on all that, I would not invest in this project because I have no confidence the project creator would ever be able to pull it off - no time was devoted in the pitch to highlighting past successes, or how much progress has been made to date, or details about how the watch will be fabricated, etc.  It's all just eye-candy.

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Offline notzippy

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 05:20:38 am »
Thanks for the information, I also thought there is way to much electronics to fit in that size of footprint as well. But the information about the assembly costs simply makes this an impossibility to realize.. Should it be reported as such ?

Nz
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 05:46:32 am »
Fourth, I simply do not believe he can fit an LCD, PCB with MCU/memory, Wifi+Bluetooth+NFC+USB modules/ports, camera+flash, speaker and all the rest into a housing that small.  Absolutely no way in hell.  Not to mention audio jack, inductive charging pickup, microphone, etc, etc.  I would be shocked if Samsung came out with a product of this size and those specs... let alone an independent with no discernible prior experience.

As someone who has investigated and prototyped small watch designs (where the emphasis is always mostly on thickness), I concur. Just not possible.  :--
And you forgot the battery.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 05:53:08 am »
The battery used in the prototype is the LP423048 :
http://www.fullwat.com/documentos/000414-LNK02728.pdf
That's 4.3mm gone right there. Good luck getting much thinner and the same capacity.

AND it's got a SIM card?  :wtf:
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 05:57:34 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 08:01:11 am »
Fourth, I simply do not believe he can fit an LCD, PCB with MCU/memory, Wifi+Bluetooth+NFC+USB modules/ports, camera+flash, speaker and all the rest into a housing that small.  Absolutely no way in hell.  Not to mention audio jack, inductive charging pickup, microphone, etc, etc.  I would be shocked if Samsung came out with a product of this size and those specs... let alone an independent with no discernible prior experience.

As someone who has investigated and prototyped small watch designs (where the emphasis is always mostly on thickness), I concur. Just not possible.  :--
And you forgot the battery.

I always forget the battery - story of my life :)


Reading the comments, this project is, IMO, brimming with bullshit.

Someone asked about black and he says "Sure, black is no problem".  Is he aware of the processes by which titanium can be turned black, and what it costs and what is involved?  How could he learn all that in a matter of minutes before his reply?  And if he was already aware, why wouldn't they offer black from the get-go? 

Also, there is so much time devoted to crap like "what color wrist band do you want" and virtually no time devoted to frivolities like showing an *actual* machined housing!

Looking at the housing, it is not DFM = designed for manufacture.  It seems to me these guys don't know how this housing will be made and haven't optimized the housing for efficient and lowest cost production.  Which is especially important when you are up against a cost constraint.

One of the things I manufacture is mechanical watch winders and custom watches.  For the watches, we CNC machine the housings from titanium and stainless steel and insert antique pocket watch movements that a guy embellishes for us.  I don't think the Orsto guy has done any research into margins in the watch field.  They are insane... a $2,000 MSRP item will sell to the retailer for 60-70% off MSRP.  And on top of that you give them free displays and all sorts of marketing allowances.

This guy is a babe in the woods - about to get eaten :)
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Offline Rasz

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Offline notzippy

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 05:02:04 pm »
Specs page has changed again showing "prototype" vs "production" specs, kinda of a sly way to change your specs by making it an image file that is hosted on a remote server.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 05:20:08 pm »
They keep mentioning prototype but I don't see a single real watch anywhere?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 06:48:31 pm »
They keep mentioning prototype but I don't see a single real watch anywhere?

If they had made any prototypes, they would show them. 

They say "We have an almost unrivalled number of years experience in new innovative products and have been involved in many ground breaking technology projects which have become household products, that are pretty much taken for granted these days".  That is a pretty bold claim!  Especially considering their company was formed just a few months ago and registered to a small garage bay at a run-down industrial park.  To build credibility, why not discuss some of the products they have been involved with in the past?  Why not show prototype parts and products?

And their schedule is a pipe dream.  They say that in July, "pre production components will be tested and produced" and all testing will be done.  Then in August, production prototypes will be made, and they will build apps/software.  Each of those processes will take many many weeks - months even!  I do this stuff in-house and I can have prototypes made and tweaked in a matter of hours, and it takes us a couple or few months to get infinitely simpler products through from concept to production.  Even when I have an existing design that's already in production that I can heavily "borrow" from, it still takes many many weeks to get to production parts. 

On the one hand, I sort of feel bad for all the people putting up their hard earned money for this.  On the other, without sounding too rude... a person would have to be really, really dumb to put $150-250 into this project based on that video and some badly rendered CAD drawings and absolutely *nothing* else but promises and unsubstantiated claims.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 07:54:59 pm »
How great is indiegogo...

I hadn't looked much before and now I observer you can't comment without being a contributor. You have to subscribe to a scam to be able to warn anyone about it - lol.

I notice the money keeps trickeling in - another GBP 700 today.

 

Offline notzippy

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 08:11:48 pm »
Got another email from the person running the campaign, he seems confident that he can realize this watch. Supposed to be a video up next week demoing the prototype, and listing the development partners.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 08:30:55 pm »
If they show a REAL prototype then it would not look so much like a scam, but there's still significant hurdles to get it into production.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 08:49:31 pm »
Got another email from the person running the campaign, he seems confident that he can realize this watch. Supposed to be a video up next week demoing the prototype, and listing the development partners.

Of course... everything will be "coming soon".

If they have already made prototypes as they claim, why would they not include them in their pitch?  Why would you be showing off rendered drawings instead?  Why wouldn't they formulate their pitch after they had shot video of their prototypes in action?  They claim to have been working on this for three years.  In three years, all they have to show is a rendering? 

I am also skeptical of the value of "development partners".  Whatever these guys say isn't really verifiable... they can say "we are working with Samsung, Agilent, Tyco and Seiko".  That might just mean they bought a Samsung display as anyone with $20 and a credit card can do from Digikey.

It will be interesting to see what the video they come up with shows - but I believe I already know what will be in there.
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 05:59:30 am »
I dont understand your doubts. Chinese already make watches like those. His "partners" is some 10 man factory in guangdong daya bay.
Technology is not a problem here. The real problem is selling already realized Chinese product while pretending to be an inventor building it from rounds up.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 06:31:54 am »
I dont understand your doubts. Chinese already make watches like those. His "partners" is some 10 man factory in guangdong daya bay.
Technology is not a problem here. The real problem is selling already realized Chinese product while pretending to be an inventor building it from rounds up.

You're joking, right?

The Chinese watches are just some integrated mobile chipset with a small LCD - and they put that in a 15mm thick package.

The Orsto guy claims he is doing all of that, AND, he is adding WiFi, GPS, NFC, USB, Digital compass, G-sensor, an LED flash, and he will have sufficient memory and processor horsepower to run Android, and a battery of sufficient capacity to run the thing for 2 days. 

And he will stuff all that in a package 5.5mm thinner than those plastic Chinese watches. 

He claims he has prototypes, none of which have been shown, and that he's been working on this for 3 years, but all we see are some rendered images and a company that was formed a few months ago. 

I don't understand how anyone can think this can possibly be accomplished? 

I would love to take your money if you'd care to make a bet about whether this product will be delivered on time. Hell, I'll even give you an extra 2 months more than he claims it will take.
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Offline amyk

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2013, 08:48:24 am »
I dont understand your doubts. Chinese already make watches like those. His "partners" is some 10 man factory in guangdong daya bay.
Technology is not a problem here. The real problem is selling already realized Chinese product while pretending to be an inventor building it from rounds up.

You're joking, right?

The Chinese watches are just some integrated mobile chipset with a small LCD - and they put that in a 15mm thick package.

The Orsto guy claims he is doing all of that, AND, he is adding WiFi, GPS, NFC, USB, Digital compass, G-sensor, an LED flash, and he will have sufficient memory and processor horsepower to run Android, and a battery of sufficient capacity to run the thing for 2 days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Android-2-2-GSM-Watch-Wrist-Smartphone-Mobile-Phone-WiFi-GPS-touch-srn-5-/200928587182?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item2ec846edae

The realisation of functionality is definitely there but they're going to have a really hard time making the thing smaller. If you look at their prototype specs the dimensions are actually a little larger than that of the one above.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2013, 10:02:01 am »
The realisation of functionality is definitely there but they're going to have a really hard time making the thing smaller.

An impossibly hard time I suspect...
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2013, 06:09:19 pm »
I dont understand your doubts. Chinese already make watches like those. His "partners" is some 10 man factory in guangdong daya bay.
Technology is not a problem here. The real problem is selling already realized Chinese product while pretending to be an inventor building it from rounds up.

You're joking, right?

The Chinese watches are just some integrated mobile chipset with a small LCD - and they put that in a 15mm thick package.

The Orsto guy claims he is doing all of that, AND, he is adding WiFi, GPS, NFC, USB, Digital compass, G-sensor, an LED flash, and he will have sufficient memory and processor horsepower to run Android, and a battery of sufficient capacity to run the thing for 2 days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Android-2-2-GSM-Watch-Wrist-Smartphone-Mobile-Phone-WiFi-GPS-touch-srn-5-/200928587182?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item2ec846edae

The realisation of functionality is definitely there but they're going to have a really hard time making the thing smaller. If you look at their prototype specs the dimensions are actually a little larger than that of the one above.

I think we would all agree that the functionality is possible... I bet many of us here could make such a product and have it fit in the size of a cigarette pack.

But to make all of that functionality (and more - Orsto claims to add NFC, inductive charging, audio jack, camera flash, etc over that eBay one) and make it in a size so much smaller than anything else - I say is impossible.  Interesting about the eBay one is that the dimensions they list don't include the battery (says "watch" only).  It's a bit misleading but if you see the pics with the back open, it looks like the battery is at least half as thick as the watch, and the same outer dimensions.  So the Orsto one (even the prototype) is claimed to be smaller by quite a lot than this one, but they also claim they will reduce the size again by another 75% or so (difference in dimensions between square prototype and production version in ellipse form). 

And for a price less than the eBay one - with more functions, faster processor, more components (stylus, titanium housing, camera flash, vibratory motor), etc.

It will be interesting to watch this one unfold - but does anyone here really believe Orsto is going to produce a titanium watch in the size they claim for the price they claim?  I would love to be proven wrong because I would buy one in a heartbeat, but there are so many reasons I don't believe in this project - not only the dimensions.
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2013, 06:35:44 pm »
It will be interesting to watch this one unfold - but does anyone here really believe Orsto is going to produce a titanium watch in the size they claim for the price they claim?  I would love to be proven wrong because I would buy one in a heartbeat, but there are so many reasons I don't believe in this project - not only the dimensions.

Na, at best they will ship out those $60 chinese watches and say "this is the best we could do", at worst they will take money and wait till backers forget about it.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2013, 07:05:25 pm »
Na, at best they will ship out those $60 chinese watches and say "this is the best we could do", at worst they will take money and wait till backers forget about it.

He and his wife have been directors of a string of created and dissolved companies over the last 16 years. IMO the chances of ORTSO Ltd still existing in 12 months time are zero.

They are up to GBP 10k5 now, does it look like they will take another 50k in the next 31 days? Probably not so he can just say sorry you didn't give me enough money and walk away with what they did give in his pocket.
 

Offline rougeaux

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 07:52:14 am »
From the project page:
Quote
The Press. What they are saying.
SBWire...  The Orsto X1 known as “The Ultimate Smart Watch” is poised to be the one-stop-shop for all things mobile information.
And who exactly is SBWire?
Quote
SBWire is a leading online newswire specializing in the needs of small to medium-sized businesses.
It takes huge balls to quote your own corporate press release in a way that implies that it actually comes from an independent news source.  Monumentally huge balls.
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 08:22:22 am »
Personally I think its brilliant. Im making a mental note to use this trick next time Im running a scam in EVE Online :D
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2013, 11:05:37 pm »
The guy from Orsto said yesterday he was working on a video update showing the watch and all it's functions - but the video never ended up being posted.

I have no doubt that he is reading this site, because he said something like "unlike the critics, we are actually working with the major component manufacturers".  I wonder what "working with" means?  Do I "work with" Cree because they sent me samples and I used their LED's in various things?  Do I "work with" Cypress because I bought some PSoC chips?

"Working with" implies a level of mutual cooperation and, to me anyway, implies some sort of peer-partnership.  I am sure the relationship between Orsto and the "major component manufacturers" is anything but one of peers.
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