Author Topic: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*  (Read 44360 times)

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Online ataradov

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2013, 05:00:29 am »
And all the specifications are in images located on their site, so they can change them at any moment. Although there is nothing to change, now they are just cheap Chinese watches without any modifications at all.
Alex
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 05:18:36 am »
And all the specifications are in images located on their site, so they can change them at any moment. Although there is nothing to change, now they are just cheap Chinese watches without any modifications at all.

He downgraded the specs... right to the level of those Chinese Android watches that people already posted about.  And because he's hosting the specs, many people don't even realize he pulled a bait-and-switch.

And he deletes comments like crazy - anything even slightly questioning or critical?  Boom - it's gone.  The bad comments fill up late evening (USA time) and in the morning, he must go on there and delete anything critical, because they are gone by the time i wake up the next day.

What a tragedy for the 'investors'. 
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Offline Tost

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 12:52:31 pm »
I'm wondering how they get the Chinese Android watch electronics [1] into their dreamed up casing. Because the original case takes all antennas including GPS inside the chunky watch strap [2].

[1] http://www.orsto.com/plus-watch-pcb-1.jpg
[2] https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/full-android-watch/?action=dlattach;attach=54878;image
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2013, 01:08:08 pm »
The campaign failed to meet the target and he pockets the £22,000.

His new PLUS+ watch campaign is $4,500 into a $128,000 target and will also likely fail.

Wonder how long they can keep this up?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2013, 06:41:53 pm »
Indiegogo has reached a new low - tantamount to being complicit in these destined-for-failure projects.

This campaign was Flexible Funding, which means he gets the $$$ whether it reaches the goal or not, but is supposed to deliver on the rewards.

So the campaign ended, what, yesterday?  It did not hit the 65,000GBP goal, but it did reach 22,000GBP.  And after several of the backers asked what the status is, Paul Gill replies...

"This was a crowdfunding campaign for development of a new product. Contributors to crowdfunding realise that they are becoming part of a crowd of investors in a ‘not risk free’ project. That includes ourselves who have pumped our own money into this campaign.

It did not reach its goal, but as the majority of contributors had requested a different style, we are offering porting to the PLUS+ Watch campaign as a goodwill gesture on our part."

Basically saying "hey, it didn't hit the target so we're not doing it.  You can move your pledge to this other project I'm doing, otherwise f-off".

I contacted IGG about this project and their response was that their trust and security team do a lot of checking, both pre and ongoing, of creators and projects, but that ultimately it is up to the backer to judge the likelihood of project success.

So this guy has shystered $35,000USD on this project, openly admits he's not going to be delivering anything, and also has another project ongoing with the same terms.

And IGG allows this.

Insanity.
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alm

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2013, 07:23:49 pm »
So just stop funding IGG projects, and limit yourself to Kickstarter projects, which seem to have a better system and less obviously fraudulent projects. The lack of a flexible funding being a major difference. Too bad for the project creators outside the US/UK, but I feel that IGG has tolerated too much of this crap to earn any more of our business.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2013, 07:52:13 pm »
So just stop funding IGG projects, and limit yourself to Kickstarter projects, which seem to have a better system and less obviously fraudulent projects. The lack of a flexible funding being a major difference. Too bad for the project creators outside the US/UK, but I feel that IGG has tolerated too much of this crap to earn any more of our business.

I don't fund IGG projects.  My comments on this thread are just to raise awareness amongst this group, as well as the Google Searchers who stumble across the site later - and also with the likely naive hope that some day, IGG will care what their online reputation is like and will see that pretty much everyone who knows anything about crowdfunding considers their site to be rife with scams.

Kickstarter is only minutely better.  They do virtually zero vetting of project creators, and they also do not offer any assistance when a creator takes the money and runs. 

I read an article on Inc yesterday about this guy:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city/comments

Raised over $120k, quit his job, moved to Portland, OR and rented a nice historic house and lived off the money for a year - traveling, shopping, etc, and just announced to his funders last week that the money is gone, there will be no project, etc.  KS's response is to "remind him" that he has to work it out with the backers.  LOL!
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alm

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2013, 11:02:31 pm »
KS is by no means perfect and have had their fair share of fraudsters. But at least they're trying. For example the policy change that prohibited rendered products in intro movies.

Can't say the same about IGG. It seems like a new dodgy IGG project is almost a weekly occurrence. Flexible funding and deletion of comments (does KS allow this?) invite fraud in my opinion. Of the dodgy projects discussed on this forum, eg: this watch, thought phone, Keef's project, the thermal camera, the far majority, if not all of them, came from IGG.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #58 on: August 01, 2013, 02:53:18 am »
KS is by no means perfect and have had their fair share of fraudsters. But at least they're trying. For example the policy change that prohibited rendered products in intro movies.

Can't say the same about IGG. It seems like a new dodgy IGG project is almost a weekly occurrence. Flexible funding and deletion of comments (does KS allow this?) invite fraud in my opinion. Of the dodgy projects discussed on this forum, eg: this watch, thought phone, Keef's project, the thermal camera, the far majority, if not all of them, came from IGG.

I know a guy who invested in the Orsto X1 watch.  Nice guy but he was really naive about the whole thing and assumed IGG was vetting these projects out.  I was talking to him about it this week and he sort of dejectedly told me he's done with crowdfunding and realizes it's all just a scam.  I said much the same as you did above - that it's not a scam but maybe a bit more like the wild west. 

It ticked me off and I ended up sending a somewhat scathing email to IGG's support team.  They got back to me with a surprisingly responsive email asking for more info - so I gave it to them (including links to this thread).

And shortly thereafter, the X1 project was deleted from the IGG website.  And so was the follow-up "Plus+Watch" project.  Both gone.

 :clap:

I am quite surprised.  Shocked actually, but big props to IGG for doing it. 

I wonder what happens to the 22,000GBP that was taken in?  I wonder if that money was dispensed yet? 
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Offline kaz911

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2013, 03:29:46 am »
I wonder what happens to the 22,000GBP that was taken in?  I wonder if that money was dispensed yet?

I think with Flex Funding - the funds goes straight to the project originator on IGG. I have backed a small project with Flex Funding - and money left from paypal straight to funders paypal - minus a fee to IGG.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2013, 03:33:35 am »
I wonder what happens to the 22,000GBP that was taken in?  I wonder if that money was dispensed yet?

I think with Flex Funding - the funds goes straight to the project originator on IGG. I have backed a small project with Flex Funding - and money left from paypal straight to funders paypal - minus a fee to IGG.

I thought so too, but in the back-and-forth with IGG over the course of the day, they mentioned that they have facilities to prevent $$ going through or to pull back $$$ when things get sketchy.

It raises another interesting (or disturbing?) point - since IGG has yanked the X1 project, and since there is no discussion forum on IGG, what are backers supposed to do now?  If the funds were already dispersed, it almost makes it easier for the creator to cut and run... and IGG just eliminated much of the (overt) paper trail.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2013, 03:42:36 am »
So this guy has shystered $35,000USD on this project, openly admits he's not going to be delivering anything, and also has another project ongoing with the same terms.
And IGG allows this.
Insanity.

Fark  :palm:
BTW, what happened to the project page, the original link does not work.
Googling Ostro watch only brings up this forum.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2013, 03:50:14 am »
So this guy has shystered $35,000USD on this project, openly admits he's not going to be delivering anything, and also has another project ongoing with the same terms.
And IGG allows this.
Insanity.

Fark  :palm:
BTW, what happened to the project page, the original link does not work.
Googling Ostro watch only brings up this forum.


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/full-android-watch/msg270367/#msg270367

 :-+

IGG did the right thing.  But I HOPE they clawed back the $$$ before leaving all those backers with no info, no explanation, no project page, no ability to comment.

On the plus side, if EEVBlog comes up when you search Orsto, maybe some of the backers will find their way here!
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2013, 03:54:52 am »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/full-android-watch/msg270367/#msg270367

 :-+
IGG did the right thing.  But I HOPE they clawed back the $$$ before leaving all those backers with no info, no explanation, no project page, no ability to comment.

Just saw that.
So indiegogo deliberately just delete the page and all comments and history off the internet?
The right thing to do? No way, that's just crazy.
The right thing to do would be to keep the page in place but mark it with the reason why it has been shut down, and keep people posted on the status. e.g. the money has/has not been recovered etc.
By deleting campaigns indiegogo are potentially leaving themselves open to the charge of deliberate coverup of fraud.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2013, 03:59:08 am »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/full-android-watch/msg270367/#msg270367

 :-+
IGG did the right thing.  But I HOPE they clawed back the $$$ before leaving all those backers with no info, no explanation, no project page, no ability to comment.

Just saw that.
So indiegogo deliberately just delete the page and all comments and history off the internet?
The right thing to do? No way, that's just crazy.
The right thing to do would be to keep the page in place but mark it with the reason why it has been shut down, and keep people posted on the status. e.g. the money has/has not been recovered etc.
By deleting campaigns indiegogo are potentially leaving themselves open to the charge of deliberate coverup of fraud.

Yep, I agree - I think they did the right thing in shutting it down, but deleting it leaves everyone who is out real money wondering what happened and why.   I wonder what IGG says to backers who contact them to ask what's up.

That's what I was getting at before - if they tell them "we pulled it.. now it's between you and the project creator", it almost leaves backers in a worse spot, because they have no forum to band together and share info, nor do they have an official place for communication from the creator.

We'll see what happens from here on... then again, we may see nothing.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2013, 04:24:51 am »
Yep, I agree - I think they did the right thing in shutting it down, but deleting it leaves everyone who is out real money wondering what happened and why.   I wonder what IGG says to backers who contact them to ask what's up.
That's what I was getting at before - if they tell them "we pulled it.. now it's between you and the project creator", it almost leaves backers in a worse spot, because they have no forum to band together and share info, nor do they have an official place for communication from the creator.

Yep.
Ulimately one of these cases is going to end up in court one day, and if indiegogo aren't lucky, they might very well find out they had the legal obligation to provide some modicum of support for financial backers. Shutting down the entire page and trying to erase the entire project from existence is the worst thing they could possibly do in my view. Same with deleted comments etc if they haven't archived those.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2013, 04:45:17 am »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/full-android-watch/msg270367/#msg270367

 :-+
IGG did the right thing.  But I HOPE they clawed back the $$$ before leaving all those backers with no info, no explanation, no project page, no ability to comment.

Just saw that.
So indiegogo deliberately just delete the page and all comments and history off the internet?
The right thing to do? No way, that's just crazy.
The right thing to do would be to keep the page in place but mark it with the reason why it has been shut down, and keep people posted on the status. e.g. the money has/has not been recovered etc.
By deleting campaigns indiegogo are potentially leaving themselves open to the charge of deliberate coverup of fraud.

Stalin used to have his adversaries killed and "photoshopped" out of old photos and all references to them removed like they never existed.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Booh

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2013, 10:34:53 am »

On the plus side, if EEVBlog comes up when you search Orsto, maybe some of the backers will find their way here!

Hi everyone

I am a cheated contributor of the orsto-campaign an found this forum a few weeks ago, when it was already too late.
It was the my second attempt to support crowdfunding and will be my last, because the system behind is not acceptable.
The backers of this campaign did not have a chance.
When I found out that critical comments and questions got deleted by Gill and the promised product changed, I started making screenshots. I contacted IGG support to get out of this campaign.
I contacted Paypal to get my money back ... no success so far.
I wrote more mails with screenshots attached to IGG telling them that this will be a fraud, but they supported him with the second campaign.
I tried to get in touch with other backers but the IGG system did not allow this. Even I was on the same campaign the system came always up with the message saying I need to be on the same campaign to send messages. And Gill continued with comment deleting and telling nonsense.
This type of crowdfunding practised by IGG is an open gate for cheaters and should not have a future.
Fair enough, we supported the impossible and wanted to make a bargain, but do not most campaigns start like this?
The point is, communication was just not possible to warn the crowd and IGG did not do anything in an earlier stage when they got warned.
Now, IGG removed all orsto-pages but I didnt get message of IGG. It seems like the supporters of a campaign have no rights at all.

To raise awareness to the public concerning crowdfunding I think about of writing an article in a daily newspaper. The entire email traffic of the story is still here.
Sry for my bad english.
 

Offline notzippy

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2013, 03:19:28 pm »
I am pretty sure Flex funding does not go directly to the person, it is still held by IGG till campaign completion. The reason for this is that if the goal is reached IGG charges one rate and if it is not then IGG charges a different rate.

Since the watch end date was July 31 and the project was yanked I am guessing the funds will be refunded. I have been snaking IGG on and off for a while, they must have done a bit of a clean house cause 260 projects were removed in the last couple days.

nz
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2013, 03:31:59 pm »
Hopefully the scammer will see not a penny and everyone will be refunded.
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2013, 04:44:37 pm »
First things to check,
is on the internet            [ x ]
is it too good to be true  [ x ]

conclusion->

IT'S A SCAM

Seriously, what has changed in the internet, since it was all scam and adult entertainment and all the bad stuff?
Before, even small bits of something smelly made people go the long way around. In a case of huge steaming pile people seem to like it and gather around and tell others what a wonderful thing it is. Now everyone and their mothers promise stuff in the name of this awesome crowdfunding.

When is it too late to chargeback on paypal/creditcard? I guess it's too late when things just continue to be promised month after month while spending other peoples money. In the end all people have is the words of some guy on a youtube video with nothing tangible to show.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2013, 05:01:22 pm »
IGG are still just scammers. They can't be arsed to shut down http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tarc-the-first-free-energy-thought-magnifier
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
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Offline notzippy

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2013, 05:22:30 pm »
People have been buying / selling from snake charmers for over 100 years... This is just a new form of it. That said there are some gems among the crap. Just do your research and if it sounds to good to be true it likely is. But it is people like those on this forum that keeps people educated so keep it up the good work..

But your right this guy is bat shit crazy
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2013, 05:38:09 pm »
He is not happy. Asked him why it has been shut down:

Quote
Hi,
 
That is not a problem, from our end.
But indiegogo in their wisdom have temporarily shut our account down.
 
We have no way of contacting anyone or telling anyone what is going on as we cannot even access the contributor details.
 
They have done this without as much as a phone call or email to us, on the strength of a couple of disgruntled people saying that they were not happy for some reason.
 
Indiegogo must be the most unprofessional organisation we have had to deal with.
 
Contributors, understandably will be climbing the walls.
 
We will keep you posted.
 
Orsto Customer Service
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #74 on: August 01, 2013, 05:40:45 pm »
IGG just gave him an easy exit. He wanted to collect more money, obviously, but there will be another project from him, I'm sure.
Alex
 


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