Author Topic: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*  (Read 44214 times)

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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2013, 06:00:05 pm »
I am a cheated contributor of the orsto-campaign an found this forum a few weeks ago, when it was already too late.
It was the my second attempt to support crowdfunding and will be my last, because the system behind is not acceptable.
The backers of this campaign did not have a chance.
When I found out that critical comments and questions got deleted by Gill and the promised product changed, I started making screenshots. I contacted IGG support to get out of this campaign.
I contacted Paypal to get my money back ... no success so far.
I wrote more mails with screenshots attached to IGG telling them that this will be a fraud, but they supported him with the second campaign.

I tried to get in touch with other backers but the IGG system did not allow this. Even I was on the same campaign the system came always up with the message saying I need to be on the same campaign to send messages. And Gill continued with comment deleting and telling nonsense.
This type of crowdfunding practised by IGG is an open gate for cheaters and should not have a future.
Fair enough, we supported the impossible and wanted to make a bargain, but do not most campaigns start like this?
The point is, communication was just not possible to warn the crowd and IGG did not do anything in an earlier stage when they got warned.
Now, IGG removed all orsto-pages but I didnt get message of IGG. It seems like the supporters of a campaign have no rights at all.

To raise awareness to the public concerning crowdfunding I think about of writing an article in a daily newspaper. The entire email traffic of the story is still here.
Sry for my bad english.

I am very sorry that this happened to you.  From what I have been told, the money was collected by IGG, but was NOT send to Paul Gill - and IGG are refunding everyone who contributed to the X1 campaign.  So, you should be getting your money back hopefully.  I would contact IGG about that, and if possible, also file a dispute through PayPal.

I've heard through the IGG grapevine that Paul Gill said the comments which he deleted were racist and/or intended to be offensive to IGG/Orsto.  That is complete bullshit.  I printed out a few screenshots - it was the same thing every day.  After about midnight GMT (7pm Eastern USA time, 4pm California time), comments would pile up from people asking what was going on, why there were no answers, etc, etc.  When about 8am GMT, the comments would get deleted.  In other words, Paul Gill seems to have woken up, and just deleted anything he didn't like.  The "racist" claim is despicable, I never saw a single such comment. 

I sincerely hope IGG does not reinstate his "Plus Watch" campaign.  This guy is a shyster and deserves no quarter.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2013, 06:38:13 pm »
It at least looks like the plus watch exists, even if it is just a cheap Chinese smartwatch with no substantial feature base, the Orsto X1 on the other hand never existed and was merely a set of drawings in photoshop.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2013, 07:36:10 pm »
It at least looks like the plus watch exists, even if it is just a cheap Chinese smartwatch with no substantial feature base, the Orsto X1 on the other hand never existed and was merely a set of drawings in photoshop.

I dunno about that... the plus watch is also just a bunch of shoddy renderings and bad photoshopping of it being on people's wrists.  There are other watches that exist that look similar to the "plus watch", but the prototypes he claimed were just $70 cheap watch-phones from Alibaba disassembled.  He never actually showed anything real as his plus watch.. it was all renderings, IIRC.
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Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2013, 07:52:11 pm »
The plus-watch looks real in this photo. It could be a rendering, but it is a good one if so:


 

Offline ataradov

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2013, 08:00:25 pm »
Yes, this one is exactly what you get from Alibaba. With Android 1.6 from 5 years ago.
Alex
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2013, 08:08:14 pm »
You're right.. I had forgotten about those pics... but I tend to think they are just the $70 Alibaba watch with maybe a different bezel.  Someone posted a pic earlier in the thread of "his" prototype which perfectly matched the Alibaba one.

It raises an interesting question about what this guy's endgame was.  He might have thought if enough people gave money, it would cover the development costs of miniaturizing the one he bought from the Alibaba supplier as the "X1", and when that became untenable, the backup plan was just to sell people a repackaged Z1 for double the price. 

Either way, he certainly misrepresented a lot of aspects of the project - good riddance, IMO. 
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Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2013, 08:58:09 pm »
I believe that he is just re-selling cheap watches. Not strictly against IGG policy, but dodgy nonetheless.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2013, 06:33:11 pm »
Final result, all £22,000 looks to be refunded:

Quote
INDIEGOGO CAMPAIGN update.
Unfortunately, Indiegogo in their wisdom put a hold on our campaign without consulting or informing us first.
They also removed our access to contact contributors, or to post any kind of update.
We have proven that we have followed their rules 100% properly and they have agreed that we have.
However, we have on several occassions expressed concerns that we had about some Indiegogo campaigns.
We have also made clear our dissatisfaction of the stress and worry they cause contributors taking this kind of action.
We have been unable to come to an agreement with Indiegogo. Hence our campaign will not be re-instated on Indiegogo.
This is disappointing considering the time and money we have spent promoting this Campaign and Indiegogo.
Please contact Indiegogo & ensure that you get a full refund from them including their fees.
Ask to speak to Matt or Anthony.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2013, 09:10:26 pm »
Final result, all £22,000 looks to be refunded:

Quote
INDIEGOGO CAMPAIGN update.
Unfortunately, Indiegogo in their wisdom put a hold on our campaign without consulting or informing us first.
They also removed our access to contact contributors, or to post any kind of update.
We have proven that we have followed their rules 100% properly and they have agreed that we have.
However, we have on several occassions expressed concerns that we had about some Indiegogo campaigns.
We have also made clear our dissatisfaction of the stress and worry they cause contributors taking this kind of action.
We have been unable to come to an agreement with Indiegogo. Hence our campaign will not be re-instated on Indiegogo.
This is disappointing considering the time and money we have spent promoting this Campaign and Indiegogo.
Please contact Indiegogo & ensure that you get a full refund from them including their fees.
Ask to speak to Matt or Anthony.

My god, that guy is a liar to the core and a liar to the end.

His campaign was cancelled because he said he was not making the X1 watch and instead was offering to port their funding to the plus watch.   When people asked about still doing the X1, he said "hey, that's the risk of crowdfunding - we have money tied up in this too".  That is why IGG cancelled it, because he acknowledged he had no intention of making the X1 at that point... which was after he already pulled a bait and switch - the campaign was originally for an X1 smart watch, which he later changed (because all the info was hosted on his own server) to just a machined housing for the plus watch.

And he claims the campaigns were cancelled because he revealed some info on other campaigns and IGG didn't like that?

This guy is a pathological liar.  I am sure he is completely unable to see that he did anything wrong and blames it 100% on IGG and the "trolls" who complained that they were being scammed out of money.

He's lucky he's not in jail!
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Offline tom66

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2013, 09:30:55 am »
The plus-watch website is now down and the Orsto site says to wait for 7th August (tomorrow) for an update... wonder what they will do.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2013, 03:43:29 pm »
The plus-watch website is now down and the Orsto site says to wait for 7th August (tomorrow) for an update... wonder what they will do.

In another lie, Orsto man Paul Gill claimed he was refunding people despite PayPal saying it was past the time limit for refunds, and he was eating the PayPal, credit card, and currency conversion fees.  A lie, since it was IGG who initiated a mass refund of the campaign and PayPal refunded everyone.  Nothing to do with Orsto as they never got the money to begin with.

I have heard that the backers have gotten full refunds from PayPal.

As for Orsto, he had a belligerent and retaliatory message on his home page in bright yellow text, which was removed soon after.  Presumably he is re-crafting his message and will be going to one of the other (even) less reputable crowdfunding sites. 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2013, 03:11:19 am »
NOTE:
I have been contacted by Paul Gill directly about this thread, with all sorts of details to clear up the facts.
But I have no desire to comment on these or get involved in this issue, and will not act as an arbitrator or public go-between. I have advised him to post directly himself if he wants to clear the air.
He has asked that I post a note to try and end any personal attacks made directly against him, and I have not read the whole thread to determine if that's has happened, but that's fair enough.
So please no personal attacks.

I would advise Paul that because this is a public access forum, the best way to clear the air is to post directly and answer questions himself. Not doing so can only lead to further speculation on the part of the public about his project.

 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2013, 04:30:42 am »
NOTE:
I have been contacted by Paul Gill directly about this thread,

Was the word "lawyer" mentioned?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2013, 04:32:05 am »
Was the word "lawyer" mentioned?

Nope. Would be laughable if that was the case.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2013, 06:06:52 am »
Presumably this thread is showing up when people do Google searches.

Paul, since you are reading this thread, you need to acknowledge the reasons your project on IGG failed without continuing to fabricate untruths.

I saw the emails to you from IGG.  They did not cancel your project because you were critical of the Kreyos.  They cancelled it because you welched out on your obligation to deliver the rewards to your backers.  You openly acknowledged having no intention to deliver with your "hey this was a risk, we lost money too" post at the close of funding.  That is why IGG cancelled your project and that is what they told you in the email.  You also told them you only deleted racist comments, which they knew was another untruth when some of your PO'ed backers send them screenshots showing that you deleted comments that were merely critical of your ability to complete the project.  And you told the backers you did not change the specs despite the fact that many had screenshots showing otherwise, that they also forward to IGG. 

IGG told you in the email they sent exactly why they dropped your project and company from their service, but you completely misrepresented the reasons afterwards.

You also continually try to promote yourself by putting others down.  Do you think people watching your project don't know that this is your fourth completely different "smart watch" design in as many months?  Do you think people react positively when your company that has failed to raise funding multiple times claims other successful companies are simply lying to their backers? 

« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 06:42:15 am by Corporate666 »
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Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #90 on: September 13, 2013, 07:14:54 am »
New crowdfunding campaing running, boy I'm glad they stopped using that really unprofessional indiegogo who removed they campaing.
http://fundanything.com/en/campaigns/plus-watch
I guess they are using fixed funding?


I like how he gets disoriented on that tiny screen everytime he is suppose to swipe or press.

I also like he is not totally trying spread the word about his watch on other peoples/companies videos with youtube comments: https://www.youtube.com/user/orsto1 (check the comment/comments) WOW thats like a real determination right there.  :-+
I guess he was thinking "free marketing" who could say no to that?

In the beginning he almost likes to switch things up from copy pasting the same thing.

Why are they using the same hand model on every real picture or video they have?

Discussing orsto and their watches was still ok, if it didn't include personal attacks against Mr. Gill?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 07:18:20 am by Legit-Design »
 

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #91 on: September 13, 2013, 08:35:37 am »
I guess this sounded promising:
After you share your campaign, you’ll begin receiving contributions that will be deposited directly into your account. This money is yours to keep. No repayment is ever required.

Nothing like fixed funding. Or refunds if your campaign gets pulled.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #92 on: September 13, 2013, 12:57:58 pm »
You can flag this video as SCAM on Youtube
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Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #93 on: September 13, 2013, 01:40:13 pm »
Well the video is not technically a scam or anything, however taking money from people and promising things that aren't true is generally considered scamming. People who tell these thing might have different opinions about the matter.

Why don't they do some publicity by sending prototype to some entity that can tell their honest opinion about it. Dear Orsto, please take advice, send your watch or invite someone trustworthy to review it. Trustworthy is someone who isn't paid to say good things about the product and will give their honest opinion about it and it's performance and confirm the claims you have made. If it isn't total crap and you can actually deliver the goods, you will make lots of money with it. No need to try putting "competitors" down with somewhat questionable claims and such, just let your product do the work. If you release a good product no one cares about the competition. Trying to put competitors down or censoring stuff will make you look like a total idiot (if it already hasn't).

Good authentic reviews about a product sells better than what you are doing.



 

Offline voice of reason

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Not totally in agreement.
« Reply #94 on: September 13, 2013, 07:34:50 pm »
I do not want to get caught up in a shit storm. BUT. It would appear here that there is a bit of a campaign maybe aimed at the wrong people.
I tell you why. My lad contributed to the first igg ORSTO x1 campaign. He was also one of the vocal contributors saying that a squarer shaped device would look a whole lot cooler than a round one.
They obviously spent time and money on building a new prototype. In reply to what folk like him had asked for.
I do know for a fact that igg gave them instructions to start a new campaign for the square device. pluswatch. I have actually seen the email from igg to ORSTO telling them that.
So campaign 2 starts. I also know that certain people at ORSTO company were asked about their opinion on the technical feasibility of the Kraos watch.
I do know that at some point they told igg that the krayos was a little suspect. But igg swiftly pulled their campaign overnight.
Now whether you like it or not igg do have a reputation for being a set of big headed gits just like ks do.

Now the other ins and outs I do not know much about. However, I do know that my lad got a paypal refund direct from the ORSTO paypal account. So ORSTO must have had at least some of the money. So they must have made the decision to repay contributors. That in itself in my book is commendable. Because I know of many people or companies who would never ever, ever have repaid a penny.

As for igg, they ignored everyone of my lads emails and never replied to any messages on their landlines. I think that tells you something.

Personally I prefer to deal with a company that has a landline and answers the phone. When I look at these websites that have no contact address or phone line, I cannot help but think that they are just a bit dodgy.

Would I use a crowdfunding website ? probably not. I would wait and pay a little extra for the product at my local store where I could have a good look and feel before I handed over my hard earned cash.

I do also agree with Corporate 666 that people as a rule who contribute to a crowdfunding campaign, most likely do so because they want the perk. Not because they want to be charitable.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Not totally in agreement.
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2013, 10:15:07 am »
I do not want to get caught up in a shit storm. BUT. It would appear here that there is a bit of a campaign maybe aimed at the wrong people.

IMPORTANT:

This "Voice of Reason" forum user is using the exact same IP address as the IP address used by Paul Gill in his personal email to me.
The account was also opened one day after his email to me.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:04:23 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Not totally in agreement.
« Reply #96 on: September 14, 2013, 10:24:59 am »
I do not want to get caught up in a shit storm. BUT. It would appear here that there is a bit of a campaign maybe aimed at the wrong people.

IMPORTANT:

This "Voice of Reason" forum user is using the exact same IP address as the IP address used by Paul Gill in his personal email to me.

And why isn't he banned then for sockpuppeting?
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #97 on: September 14, 2013, 10:34:05 am »
Because it could be a NAT proxy. He really has to step deep in the dog turds before he will be banned again. Perhaps he is not totally insane, repeating the same actions and hoping for a change.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #98 on: September 14, 2013, 10:37:59 am »
Because it could be a NAT proxy.

Then it is his lucky day and he should buy a lottery ticket.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Not totally in agreement.
« Reply #99 on: September 14, 2013, 10:59:28 am »
And why isn't he banned then for sockpuppeting?

The account has been banned.
 


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