Author Topic: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*  (Read 44222 times)

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Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2013, 11:00:43 am »
If he is using some mobile wireless broadband or similar all of their customers might be behind same NAT. That might be the case where I live, we have unlimited mobile "broadband" and it's also cheap.

Dave is the dns tied to that ipaddress unique or does it point to something that might be such nat proxy?

If you do google search with the last part of the dns tied to that IP, isp website might have info if it is indeed behind NAT proxy or something.

Like I have "numbers_my_direct_ip.my-isp.com"
if my internets were behind NAT my dns might look something like "xxx.nat.my-isp.com" (example from my internet service providers site)

No need to reveal anything private about it.

However, even the way he writes sounds suspicious. Why would he be "caught in a shitstorm", if it wasn't really personal to him and actually knows intimate details about the project. When we consider the fact that Orsto aka. Paul Gill has done such things before, I think we can reasonably assume it's him.

Mr. Gill, please learn to behave and do things like normal people do, or just go home.

Seeing is believing, nothing can beat the fact that when you actually deliver what you promised. That would be considered sticking it down the throats of people who doubted you and your products.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:05:27 am by Legit-Design »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2013, 11:12:33 am »
If he is using some mobile wireless broadband or similar all of their customers might be behind same NAT.

In theory, yes.
But when the account was created one day after he emailed me, and here this person is defending the campaign with quite detailed points, using an email address from inbox.com that gets no google searches for anything else, and using a very similar tone to his email to me.
What are the odds?

Quote
However, even the way he writes sounds suspicious. Why would he be "caught in a shitstorm", if it wasn't really personal to him and actually knows intimate details about the project. When we consider the fact that Orsto aka. Paul Gill has done such things before, I think we can reasonably assume it's him.

My immediate instinct upon reading the post was that yes, it sounded very suspicious, hence I then checked the IP address.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2013, 11:17:58 am »
Dave is the dns tied to that ipaddress unique or does it point to something that might be such nat proxy?

I have no idea how to test for that.
 

Offline SeanB

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Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2013, 11:28:25 am »
Using a ip-lookup/dns lookup http://whatismyipaddress.com/ip-lookup, in that case the "hostname" might give hint if the ip address is actually nat/proxy. For my address those are "numbers_my_direct_ip.my-isp.com" but in most cases it wont tell directly if it is actually ISP nat/whatever. With my cell phone I have unlimited dataplan I actually get something similar to "xxx.nat.my-isp.com".  If it is more cryptic than that then normally a quick google search might be sufficient way to determine that.
Usually this involves gamers since ip address from such NAT-connections are banned from servers, ping too high.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:35:50 am by Legit-Design »
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2013, 11:30:59 am »
However, even the way he writes sounds suspicious. Why would he be "caught in a shitstorm", if it wasn't really personal to him and actually knows intimate details about the project. When we consider the fact that Orsto aka. Paul Gill has done such things before, I think we can reasonably assume it's him.

No kidding, that entire post just exudes red flags from it's red flag exuding hole.  :bullshit:  :bullshit:  :bullshit:

But on the bright side, when you watch this video


and then substitute "spam" with "scam" things are looking up already.  ;D I think IGG should adopt that as their new motto. Scam scam scam wonderfuuuuul scaaaaaam.
 

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2013, 11:33:16 am »
Based on the data presented, claiming that someone from the same ISP happened to get the same IP and registered on the same day he sent that e-mail to support this project in a suspicious way (explicitly trying to appear an outsider) seems very far fetched. Not something worth worrying about since this is not a criminal proceeding.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2013, 11:41:12 am »
http://whois.net/reverse-dns-ip-lookup/

I used that with the IP and got a server IP address of 128.242.54.18 which is for Verio Web Hosting in Englewood USA.
An IP tracer shows the ISP is Griffin Information Systems Limited in the UK.
I still do not understand this stuff, sorry.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:51:48 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2013, 11:51:14 am »
You can also have a look at the header from the e-mail you received for some extra tidbits. Mail route can usually give you an extra clue.
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2013, 11:54:24 am »
That site tells the actual DNS after "name ="

http://whatismyipaddress.com/ip-lookup this site tells the same info on "Hostname:"
It is highly unlikely that "voice of reason" was not Paul Gill, but it's still an option.

But if he does things like this, I think we will hear more about him.
My opinion is that it's just embarrassing and petty.

If he had a choice to pay back the contributors, it was only that he gives the ok himself or paypal close his account (by force) and refund people.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:57:54 am by Legit-Design »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2013, 11:59:13 am »
Englewood Colorado is where this is physically. So most likely a home connection and not a NAT at all. Does this annoyance live in the area? If so then it is his home connection.
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #111 on: September 14, 2013, 12:01:18 pm »
It is highly unlikely that "voice of reason" was not Paul Gill, but it's still an option.

no, not an option, "Services:Suspected proxy server" tells everything.
The probability that "voice of reason" used exact the same proxy as Paul did is 1/3.1415926^999
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2013, 12:03:13 pm »
Englewood Colorado is where this is physically. So most likely a home connection and not a NAT at all. Does this annoyance live in the area? If so then it is his home connection.

Dave took the server: 128.242.54.18 from that site, instead of the actual DNS. Orsto resides in UK. I get the same server: 128.242.54.18  when I search my ip, with that tool. That tool tells the dns after "name="  , like I wrote before.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 12:08:50 pm by Legit-Design »
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2013, 12:06:23 pm »
It is highly unlikely that "voice of reason" was not Paul Gill, but it's still an option.
no, not an option, "Services:Suspected proxy server" tells everything.
The probability that "voice of reason" used exact the same proxy as Paul did is 1/3.1415926^999

With my mobile broadband I can get same IP from my isp as thousands (or maybe hundreds) of other users. If Paul and voice of reason were using same isp (also if they live in same country/area) then odds would be considerably higher.  But I'm not sure if things are the same in UK.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 12:10:03 pm by Legit-Design »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2013, 12:18:30 pm »
That site tells the actual DNS after "name ="

It has:
Non-authoritative answer:
57.118.177.95.in-addr.arpa   name = theIPaddress.fid.mops2.co.uk.
The "fid.mops2.co.uk" part matches what SMF tells me for "hostname", and also the email header tells me.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Not totally in agreement.
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2013, 04:24:35 pm »
I do not want to get caught up in a shit storm. BUT. It would appear here that there is a bit of a campaign maybe aimed at the wrong people.

IMPORTANT:

This "Voice of Reason" forum user is using the exact same IP address as the IP address used by Paul Gill in his personal email to me.
The account was also opened one day after his email to me.


LOL!


I thought the writing style was almost identical to the emails I was shown from him to IGG, and it was not realistic that he knew the detailed info merely by virtue of his "lad" being a contributor to the campaign.

So, yet more proof that Gill is dishonest and has no problem bending the truth for personal gain!
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #116 on: September 14, 2013, 04:33:10 pm »
I guess the real Paul Gill could still claim it wasn't him behind this, but only if he didn't respond to Dave from email address (showing it was really him) registered to orsto, or really linked to him. Meaning someone sent the email with spoofed sender. Like Dave told earlier someone sent email claiming to be Paul was concerned about personal attacks against Paul Gill in this thread. Then this person from same IP address with very high probability came here sharing inside information and trying to make orsto look like the good guy since they "gave" people their money back.

This could be really clever way to make Paul Gill look bad and stupid, or just the tip of the iceberg of what he has been doing all along.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 04:35:45 pm by Legit-Design »
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Not totally in agreement.
« Reply #117 on: September 14, 2013, 04:35:03 pm »
And just to reply to Paul directly... since we all know he is still reading this.

I tell you why. My lad contributed to the first igg ORSTO x1 campaign. He was also one of the vocal contributors saying that a squarer shaped device would look a whole lot cooler than a round one.

I watched the comments religiously.  Nobody was requesting a square shaped watch.  The creator was moving in that direction and kept telling people that most of the contributors wanted it.  Which was strange because that was not reflected in the comments.

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They obviously spent time and money on building a new prototype. In reply to what folk like him had asked for.

Not true.  As was shown earlier in this thread, the "prototype" was just an off-the-shelf part from China that can be bought on many sites today. It was not his design.  He downgraded the specs to match the off-the-shelf watch he purchased, then denied that the specs had changed when backers called him on it.


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I do know for a fact that igg gave them instructions to start a new campaign for the square device. pluswatch. I have actually seen the email from igg to ORSTO telling them that.

I have seen the email also.  IGG told him that it was not really acceptable to change the original project to something else, and that if he wanted to offer a different product, it would need to be through a new campaign.

Quote
So campaign 2 starts. I also know that certain people at ORSTO company were asked about their opinion on the technical feasibility of the Kraos watch.
I do know that at some point they told igg that the krayos was a little suspect. But igg swiftly pulled their campaign overnight.

I do not believe for one second that IGG would solicit feedback from a project creator to check their opinion on another project creator.  It is infinitely less likely that they would do so with the intent of tricking the first project creator into saying something bad so that they could ban them and cancel their project.  Much more likely is that what IGG told you in their email is why your project was cancelled - because you outright stated you have no intention to fulfill the X1 project rewards.  You told the backers in response to whether they were going to get their X1 watch (paraphrasing) "Hey, we all knew this was a risk when we started - we lost money too".  In other words, you stated you intended to keep the money and not deliver the X1.  IGG reminded you that you were obligated to fulfill the rewards regardless of funds raised, which you agreed to with your flexible funding campaign, and because you stated your intent not to fulfill rewards, they cancelled the project an refunded everyone.


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Now whether you like it or not igg do have a reputation for being a set of big headed gits just like ks do.

That is the kind of thing I would think if I was turned down by both parties.

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Now the other ins and outs I do not know much about. However, I do know that my lad got a paypal refund direct from the ORSTO paypal account. So ORSTO must have had at least some of the money. So they must have made the decision to repay contributors. That in itself in my book is commendable. Because I know of many people or companies who would never ever, ever have repaid a penny.

False.  I have a copy of an email from Orsto to a backer where he states he did not ever get any money from IGG and if the backer wants a refund, he can talk to IGG. 

Quote
As for igg, they ignored everyone of my lads emails and never replied to any messages on their landlines. I think that tells you something.

Since "your lad" would be the son of the project creator and is probably a fictional character, that's not surprising.

It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2013, 04:37:35 pm »
I guess the real Paul Gill could still claim it wasn't him behind this, but only if he didn't respond to Dave from email address (showing it was really him) registered to orsto, or really linked to him. Meaning someone sent the email with spoofed sender. Like Dave told earlier someone claiming to be Paul was concerned about personal attacks against Paul Gill in this thread. Then this person from same IP address with very high probability came here sharing inside information and trying to make orsto look like the good guy since they "gave" people their money back.

This could be really clever way to make Paul Gill look bad and stupid, or just the tip of the iceberg of what he has been doing all along.

That would be a whole lot of work to go to just to "frame" him.  And this person would need the ability to write in the same manner as Paul Gill, and they would need to know what his email header information was and/or his IP address, and how to fake it. 

That Venn diagram gets into beyond-microscopic sizes.  Add in the motivation factor and it's 0.0
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2013, 10:52:06 pm »
The user Voice of Reason made 7 posts, every post of which used the same IP address as Paul Gill's email.
Then since being banned for sockpuppeting (and I made Paul aware of this, which to be fair he denies), the user has tried to access the forum multiple times under that same IP address, and then for a 5 minute window tried another IP address, and then back to the original, and now back to the new IP. The first attempt by this IP address was to access the crowd funded board directly as a guest. In fact most of the IP activity on this account links to the crowd funded board directly.
SMF tells me there are no other users in the same IP address range.
Also, the user Voice of Reason has been made clearly aware that they have been banned for sockpuppetting and using the same IP as Paul Gill, but I have had no complaint from the anonymous inbox.com email. And from the jumping from guest to logged in tracked cookie account, the user has clearly tried to use a different machine or browser to access the forum to read threads in only the crowd funded board.
I wish to make people aware (if you didn't know), that the Simple Machine Forum software provides extensive IP and account tracking with date and time, and parts of the forum visited.
That includes guests just browsing the forum, you don't have to be a member or logged in, it tracks everything.

I have informed Paul I will no longer enter into any email correspondence with him, but he is free to join this forum under his real name to discuss his project and answer questions.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:43:12 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2013, 12:52:19 am »
SMF is almost as powerful as the NSA i seems. By the way, one of the 7 posts was an attempt to list the concurrent watch as a bogus project in our 'bogus crowdsourcing projects' thread. It's all so obvious.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #121 on: September 15, 2013, 02:12:45 am »
Damn, I've been ignoring this thread since it was created - mostly because I'm not at all interested in any kind of watch.

I can see now that was a mistake. This thread is where all the action is at  :(
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #122 on: September 15, 2013, 03:39:38 am »
By the way, one of the 7 posts was an attempt to list the concurrent watch as a bogus project in our 'bogus crowdsourcing projects' thread. It's all so obvious.

Looooool!!!  :-DD Seriously? Damn, I missed that one. More transparent than a highly transparent object that is really really (really) transparent. Some people....
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #123 on: September 15, 2013, 04:00:26 am »
Seriously? Damn, I missed that one. More transparent than a highly transparent object that is really really (really) transparent. Some people....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/list-of-dodgy-crowd-source-funded-projects/msg291225/#msg291225
Paul also sent me that exact link in his very first email to me as well, raving on about how dodgy it was.

And the first post is classic "build my account rep" 101:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/you-don't-understand-what-crowd-funding-is-or-how-it-works/msg289365/#msg289365
by trying to appear to be impartial, while laying the groundwork that idigigogo and kickstarter are not playing the game right, and plugging the lesser sites that Orsto is now on.
 ::)

He claims that the forum account is not his, and his excuse is "this is a big building and the local area must have a population of 2 - 3 million people at least". Oh dear :palm:
He has said I can reproduce his entire email, but I won't, he can post his own waffle under a real non-sockpuppet account.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 04:49:44 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Full android watch - Ostro on indiegogo - *Dodgy*
« Reply #124 on: September 15, 2013, 05:11:50 am »
Honestly, my first thought when I saw all those posts from a new account on those crowdfunding threads was "crap, looks like Keef is bored again".
 


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