Author Topic: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator  (Read 9503 times)

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Offline krivxTopic starter

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IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« on: August 07, 2013, 01:14:25 pm »
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/inti-240kw-solar-thermal-electric-generator/

This looks quite interesting. Multiple contradicting numbers, confusing energy with power ("1 watt = 860 Calories").
 

Online Andy Watson

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 01:56:33 pm »
Quote
The MAX sunlight heat energy is at sea level at about 1100 Watts per meter. Our mirror array is 9 Square meters or 9.9 KW. If the ambient air is less than 40C we get additional potential heat.

The result in a climate that averages 26 to 37C annually with a sun load of 1100 Watt, we get an available energy of about 15KW of the thermal difference.
How's that work? Reducing the air temperature increases the amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth?

There's some creative physics going on here. Smells too much like the free-energy brigade.
 

Offline ElectroIrradiator

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 01:58:12 pm »
Their numbers seem off, though their mix of units means I cannot be bothered to do an accurate calculation. Metric for science please, or go home. ;)

However at least one claim is certified BS: 10 KWh (if that is what they mean by KW/h), 24 hours a day. The incident energy on a 9 m^2 surface, aimed at the Sun, is indeed 10KW. However that is under best possible conditions, meaning Sun at zenith, clean air and no clouds. From the 10KW figure you need to consider mirror inefficiency, solar collector inefficiency, and steam engine plus electric dynamo conversion losses. Then there are thermal losses in the molten salt heat storage battery.

Not to mention the fact that the Earth tend to rotate once a day. So without an atmosphere you'd maximally receive 5KW continuously, when averaged over a 24 hour period. Subtract all the combined loss factors, including the imperfect atmospheric transmission during the day as the Earth rotates, and you will have an idea why something like this hasn't been realized ages ago.

The basic idea is sound, and large solar collectors similar to this one has been built and operated. But they tend to be huge, to make up for the various losses in the system.
 

Offline grenert

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 02:03:15 pm »
Quote from: from their campaign
Graphite Blue Energy (GBE) is a subsidiary of GBI. Our team has a 30 year history of designing robotic systems, operating hundred million dollar marketing companies, building race car engines, developing fuel cells, building super computers, and compression software.

Yet GBI has only a skeleton, empty-link website that was just created in May:
http://www.graphiteblueindustries.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.graphiteblueindustries.com

Yeah, I'm sure these guys are the real deal.
 

Offline cyr

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 02:10:23 pm »
"Interesting" is one word to describe it, not the first that comes to mind though...

I could only manage the first 10% or so of the text, almost none if it made any sense.

What the hell is a "cryogenic salt dewar battery" ? I know molten salts can be used to store heat energy, but that is about as far from cryogenic you can get...


 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 03:20:02 pm »
I don't see any point discussing these Flexible funding campaigns which have nothing of value to offer, except for the project creator who gets money. Maybe I should roll my own, just to get some pocket money since this seems really easy way to do it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 03:21:53 pm by Legit-Design »
 

Offline notzippy

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 10:00:45 pm »
I don't see any point discussing these Flexible funding campaigns which have nothing of value to offer, except for the project creator who gets money. Maybe I should roll my own, just to get some pocket money since this seems really easy way to do it.

Wrong, have received perks from 2 FF campaigns on igg. It is not wrong to discuss them here, all questions will be answered.

Nz

 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2013, 01:47:21 am »
I take it your campaigns actually had something to offer? Not just taking the money and giving kind words of no value back?
Or promising something revolutionary and delivering something that has been operational for several years in a bigger scale.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 01:52:34 am by Legit-Design »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 01:56:19 am »
$500 to get a copy of their business plan  :-DD
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 02:00:01 am »
They lost me at "rotational energy"  :palm:
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 02:06:46 am »
 

Offline Vernon

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 05:50:54 am »
HAHA OK I'll bite...  DOH!  Watch the video in the link "INTI Prototype Demo Video" long enough and one can't help but get the impression that the guy means well and just wants $$$ to keep at it.  Keep watching some more and you get to the "Other Stuff" the water heater, fridge, turbine and fuel cell???  Nothing too ZPE though.  So... not so much snake oil as poor composition, but NAH.  I'll put my money elsewhere for now  :=\
"Pie are not square!  Pie are round!  They ain't teached you nuthin' at that there Uni Versa Tee."
 

Offline ElectroIrradiator

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 06:04:30 am »
 :palm:

 :bullshit:

A technical spec sheet filled with 'net compliant buzzwords to lure the unwashed masses, yet giving absolutely zero detailed specifications. Seems their strategy is to hit the general public with a technological wave of shock-and-awe, hoping no-one calls them out on their complete lack of hard details.

The video was content free for me, no new information in there. The only thing they seem to have actually made themselves, was the 'steam engine', running on compressed air.

Executive summary: They are so full of shit, they ought to plan on collecting their own effluent, using that as fuel for their steam engine. What I cannot decide is whether they are just well meaning amateurs, or a full on scam campaign.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 06:32:52 am »
HAHA OK I'll bite...  DOH!  Watch the video in the link "INTI Prototype Demo Video" long enough and one can't help but get the impression that the guy means well and just wants $$$ to keep at it.

Yes, it seems the majority of people who work on these sorts of projects, and perpetual motion/free energy machines etc do actually believe in what they are doing.
But believing in something is not enough to make it work and meet the specs you think it will have.
And they often get tricked by basic engineering or physics mistakes they don't notice.
And like all good religous people, when the fallacies are pointed out to them, rather than say "oh, yeah, I was mistaken" and drop it, or revise their expectations, it can often give them more belief that they are right.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 06:36:39 am »
A technical spec sheet filled with 'net compliant buzzwords to lure the unwashed masses, yet giving absolutely zero detailed specifications. Seems their strategy is to hit the general public with a technological wave of shock-and-awe, hoping no-one calls them out on their complete lack of hard details.

And that's the thing.
I was going to do a detailed repose point by point of each claim, but realised it would probably take quite some time to do, and then there is always the "but that bit isn't BS because look here, that technology is real and does work..." claim, and they are not wrong.
It can be non-trivial to try and fully "debunk" these types of projects that do fundamentally use a bunch of real working technology.
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2013, 08:48:34 am »

I knew that video looked familiar in the beginning. Joe Carruth is the owner/creator of that mirror thingy generator.

http://hackaday.com/2009/09/09/12kw-solar-collector/ article on hackaday... from 2009... good thing internet never forgets

http://hackedgadgets.com/2009/12/17/solar-mirror-array-steam-engine-drives-12kw-generator/
 

Offline Hypernova

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2013, 01:14:51 am »
"Our lead engineer, Dave, is truely Tesla reincarnate. He is unkown today, but "

*BOOM*

*Hypernova's bullshit meter overloads in a shower of sparks*
 

Offline notzippy

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2013, 05:29:18 pm »
"Our lead engineer, Dave, is truely Tesla reincarnate. He is unkown today, but "

*BOOM*

*Hypernova's bullshit meter overloads in a shower of sparks*

LMMFAO
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2013, 12:44:58 pm »
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/inti-240kw-solar-thermal-electric-generator/

This looks quite interesting. Multiple contradicting numbers, confusing energy with power ("1 watt = 860 Calories").

Quote
The page you are looking for is no longer available or has been moved.

To look further, enter a search in the top right corner of this page or send us Feedback if you think you reached this page in error.
:scared: :scared:

PROJECT REMOVED.
their site: http://gbisac.com/ still points to nonexisting campaign, so I guess they themselves werent behind this.

Why they remove the page and deny it ever existing?
I would like someone making a site that archives all these crowdfunding things, anyone? It should also make snapshots of the pictures and other media, stored on creators servers.
We have google cache and webarchive, but thats not the same thing
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 12:59:17 pm by Legit-Design »
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 01:14:54 pm »
Why they remove the page and deny it ever existing?

This is how IGG covers up their failed scams. They disappear as if they never existed.

A good IGG scam has to fly under the radar. Then IGG will happily support the scammer and take their share from the scam. But if it gets too obvious IGG simply pretends it never happened.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 


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