Author Topic: UsbSafe2  (Read 9337 times)

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Offline newbadboy

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UsbSafe2
« on: August 18, 2016, 08:38:04 pm »
I've listened to ideas from backers and i'm soon releasing the latest version of UsbFuse2.

It will feature
 
OVP, over voltage protection
Current monitor
Anti juice jacking mode
Open source
Competitive pricing


Navigate to https://www.crowdsupply.com/karoly-simon/usbsafe2 and subscribe for news and release date!!   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 11:58:46 am by newbadboy »
 

Offline Xenoamor

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Offline badboy

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 12:21:58 pm »
Yes this is the follow up.
 

Offline Xenoamor

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 12:42:50 pm »
What happens if you overvoltage this?
 

Offline badboy

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 05:46:08 pm »
6V is absolut maximum rating for this at the moment. Damage to Ic will occure. Why are you asking?
 

Offline m98

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2016, 08:18:29 pm »
6V is absolut maximum rating for this at the moment. Damage to Ic will occure. Why are you asking?
Why don't you add a simple overvoltage protection circuit? Would be a nice additional feature.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 10:55:16 am »
+1 for overvoltage protection, damage from that is actually more likely to occur than from overcurrent. Most ports are already current-protected.
 

Offline Wilo

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 03:21:45 pm »
Overvoltage protection would limit the use of fast chargers (like Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0/3.0), which can supply up to 12V.
 

Offline m98

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 05:14:43 pm »
Overvoltage protection would limit the use of fast chargers (like Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0/3.0), which can supply up to 12V.
But why would you want to use this device to protect a charger? Also according to the OP it gets destroyed from anything over 5V anyways.
 

Offline badboy

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 07:30:06 pm »
You are all right but somewhere i needed to draw the line. Maybe in future.
 

Offline Esposch T. Tapir

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 09:33:49 am »
Have you heard of the USB Condom before?
Yours looks similar but with OCP.

Great video; shows off the product really well, but I'm not quite sure why I'd buy one.
Most (all?) USB ports on PCs/laptops are protected by a polyfuse, and I've never heard of a charger accidentally sending huge current surges into batteries. 
I'd actually be curious to know if this is possible to have a spike in the current without also spiking the voltage.
Bachelor of Engineering (ECSE) with Honours.
Every time I write a line of code or build a circuit I am reminded that, in the grand scheme of things, I know bugger all.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 09:47:17 am »
The only thing this can be useful for is the case where a faulty USB cable or device shorts an unprotected port on and expensive device, which is indeed a very unlikely scenario. Can't see who would be willing to put up with the cost and bulk of this thing on each of their USB connections.
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2016, 04:07:41 pm »
I made a thingy before; it could be scaled down to the same thing, but with more accurate current limiting and higher voltage tolerance:
http://seventransistorlabs.com/Fuse/

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Offline Xenoamor

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 11:44:47 am »
The only damage I've had from USB is over voltage, but I work with 200V plus stuff

Safe to say after the first destruction everything is fully isolated and sitting behind a USB hub
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 01:09:26 pm »
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 04:40:26 pm »
Have you heard of the USB Condom before?
Yours looks similar but with OCP.

Great video; shows off the product really well, but I'm not quite sure why I'd buy one.
Most (all?) USB ports on PCs/laptops are protected by a polyfuse, and I've never heard of a charger accidentally sending huge current surges into batteries. 
I'd actually be curious to know if this is possible to have a spike in the current without also spiking the voltage.

Yes, the crowdfounded usb condom seems to be a pure passive dongle which you can't controll and don't have usb passthrough.

thx regarding the video, took some time to get it right :)
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 04:48:29 pm »
I made a thingy before; it could be scaled down to the same thing, but with more accurate current limiting and higher voltage tolerance:
http://seventransistorlabs.com/Fuse/

Tim

Yes and i would surely use one myself in the lab. But still it's not optimized for a non techie nor usb at the moment.
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 04:53:00 pm »
https://www.usbkill.com/


tihi power surge attack, that seems kind of BS. But it will probably kill your USB if thats what you want :)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 04:54:40 pm by newbadboy »
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: UsbSafe2
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 11:58:13 am »
I've listened to ideas from backers and i'm soon releasing the latest version of UsbFuse2.

It will feature
 
OVP, over voltage protection
Current monitor
Anti juice jacking mode
Open source
Competitive pricing


Navigate to https://www.crowdsupply.com/karoly-simon/usbsafe2 and subscribe for news and release date!!   
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: UsbSafe2
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2016, 08:01:24 am »
The campaign is now live.  Go and get one!
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: UsbSafe2
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2016, 06:50:33 pm »
Actually the campaign is picking up speed now and thing seems to develop good!!!!
 

Online blueskull

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2016, 03:13:02 pm »
https://www.usbkill.com/

It is not very efficient as a USB port killer.
Judging from its look, it seems like it uses a photo flash IGBT to fire a shock, which looks like a bad design to me.
In these port killers, you want as fast di/dt as possible to make ESD diodes useless, hence I won't recommend an IGBT or MOSFET since they all see increased channel resistance over current.
IGBTs increase resistance over current due to lower injection efficiency at high current, while MOSFET current is limited by total gate charge and transconductance.
I would use an SCR to fire a lethal shot to US port due to the positive feedback effect, and if there is moderately amount of capacitance, a tiny SOT89 SCR is guaranteed to kill any port.
An SCR's voltage drop is not limited by PN junction. It is only limited by Ohmic contact. It behaves exactly like a PN diode -- the higher the current, the higher the injected carriers, the lower the resistance.
 

Offline bktemp

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2016, 05:48:00 pm »
https://www.usbkill.com/

It is not very efficient as a USB port killer.
Judging from its look, it seems like it uses a photo flash IGBT to fire a shock, which looks like a bad design to me.
In these port killers, you want as fast di/dt as possible to make ESD diodes useless
USB killer does not try to have a very fast di/dt, because that is the purpose of ESD diodes to protect from ESD events with a high di/dt because of the high voltage involved. Instead the USB killer puts enough energy into the data lines to burn the ESD diodes/their bond wires. You don't need any fast di/dt, and also no very high current, because high speed ESD diodes are designed only for a small amount of energy.
Are SCRs really faster than IGBTs at turn on? Most SCRs are specified at max 50A/us to 100A/us and have a switching time somewhere around 1us. That's why you usally put an inductor in series to limit the di/dt, otherwise they will fail.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: IntegriFuse. Indiegogo
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2016, 06:37:41 pm »
USB killer does not try to have a very fast di/dt, because that is the purpose of ESD diodes to protect from ESD events with a high di/dt because of the high voltage involved. Instead the USB killer puts enough energy into the data lines to burn the ESD diodes/their bond wires. You don't need any fast di/dt, and also no very high current, because high speed ESD diodes are designed only for a small amount of energy.
Are SCRs really faster than IGBTs at turn on? Most SCRs are specified at max 50A/us to 100A/us and have a switching time somewhere around 1us. That's why you usally put an inductor in series to limit the di/dt, otherwise they will fail.

The energy in these MLCC caps are far from melting bonding wires. The sharper the rising edge the higher the instantaneous current is, and eventually, the high current through Zener diode's contact resistance will have high enough voltage to fry south bridge.

SCRs turn on very fast, but this can lead to secondary breakdown, which makes it impossible to turn off (it takes longer to turn off even after external voltage is reversed). In this case, we only care about as fast turn on as possible, while no one cares if the SCR can turn off reliably quickly.

Also, secondary breakdown in a current unbounded application will cause filamentation, which is the effect where silicon gets molten through by high current concentration at secondary breakdown, while other area merely turns on. This won't happen if the device is large enough compared to capacitor's stored energy.
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: UsbSafe2
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2016, 12:51:41 pm »
So the campaign has reached 100%. Feels great!
 


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