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Products => Crowd Funded Projects => Topic started by: erandored on May 24, 2016, 06:43:47 pm

Title: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: erandored on May 24, 2016, 06:43:47 pm
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined)

Almost seems too good to be true.  Worth looking into the specs they list to see if the math works.  The price seems really low as well.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Photon939 on May 24, 2016, 07:26:54 pm
Hey look, a crowdfunding project where they actually show some guts of the unit! I think I've been jaded by all the terrible Indiegogo scams lately.

Efficiency and cooling capacity numbers are certainly in the range of possibility.

The main downside I see of this unit is smaller size for a given cooling capacity means increased air velocity. Smaller coils get dirty faster.

The photo of the refrigeration system looks the same as your typical window ac with the exception of a horizontally mounted rotary compressor.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edavid on May 24, 2016, 07:45:02 pm
The only advantages are size and weight.  Conventional window air conditioners cost $100-200 and often have higher EER than this one.  Also, you don't have to wait until next year to get them :)

Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: CanadianAvenger on May 24, 2016, 07:54:05 pm
Interesting, might be good for some small spaces.

Not a fan of the exterior up-facing vent though. It really should be out-facing, or down-facing to protect the inside workings from rain [and any other falling debris].
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: thm_w on May 24, 2016, 09:21:15 pm
The fresh air mode is really novel. All of the low end units I looked at did not have that, and it could save some energy, by say activating automatically when the outside temperature drops. As long as it has a good filter on the outside portion of the unit.
The one I got has manually operated mini vent (to prevent CO2 buildup?), but this sounds much better.

I would consider one but it can't be mounted vertically.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Richard Crowley on May 24, 2016, 09:29:03 pm
...kickstarter....Almost seems too good to be true...
That has become rather a cliché, hasn't it?
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: MarkS on May 25, 2016, 12:50:15 am
I went to school for HVAC and have designed phase change cooling for computers in the past. I'm not too thrilled by the design. There are some major issues with liquid slugging from lying a compressor on its side, although not as much with rotary compressors. However, rotary compressors (pictured in the Kickstarter link) are the loudest types, so I'm curious how they are keeping the noise down. Also, the condenser coil is about half the size of a typical 5000 BTU window unit, of which I currently have in my bedroom, so I'm curious how well it will be able to condense the refrigerant. I'm really curious about the efficiency and longevity of the unit.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: mmagin on May 25, 2016, 12:51:24 am
5000 BTU/hr is enough for a well-insulated bedroom.  It's not much.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: ez24 on May 25, 2016, 01:08:19 am
I'm really curious about the efficiency and longevity of the unit.

So have many others who put up their money to find out:

200@$249

1017@$299

349@$549

43@$825

46@$1099      !!!!!!!!!!!!

Can these numbers be real?  A lot of nuts with money if real.   :-//
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: MadModder on May 25, 2016, 02:09:48 pm
And it only works with sliding windows. Everywhere else in the world where we use hinges on our windows, it's useless.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: NANDBlog on May 25, 2016, 02:25:36 pm
And totally doesnt work if you dont have a sliding window.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: rollatorwieltje on May 25, 2016, 02:52:55 pm
If the big AC suppliers cannot make a window unit small, why whould a random kickstarter campain be able to do it? They are big for a reason. The smallest units I've seen are marine units that use external water to dump the heat into. This Noria thing is about as big as the evaporator of a 5000 btu Webasto (http://www.webasto.com/int/markets-products/marine/cooling-solutions/bluecool-s-series/bluecool-s-series/), and somehow it manages to also contain the compressor, condensor and fans... Somehow I have a little bit more confidence in Webasto. I'm pretty sure the AC manufacturers would kill for a smaller unit, size is pretty much a key selling point for mobile/marine applications.

Of course you can make a tiny AC unit like they did, but it really doesn't have a capacity of 5000 btu. This thing has about the size of a Vapochill unit that were all the rage a decade ago to massively overclock your computer. Fun in a computer, but you absolutely cannot cool a room with that (well, not significantly anyway). Afaik it had the performance of an average refrigerator.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edavid on May 25, 2016, 04:03:36 pm
And it only works with sliding windows. Everywhere else in the world where we use hinges on our windows, it's useless.

It's a 120V only product, and they are only shipping to the US and Canada, so that hardly matters.

(Of course we do have some hinged windows in the US too.)

Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: MadModder on May 25, 2016, 04:44:32 pm
Yes I know you do have some hinges. ;)
But the sliders are historically the far most common, as far as I 've seen on TV at least.  :P
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 25, 2016, 08:48:10 pm
Much lower profile than my setup.  :P

(http://gal.redsquirrel.me/thumbs/lrg-1682-dsc05151.JPG) (http://gal.redsquirrel.me/images/other/random/dsc05151.JPG)

12,000 BTU though. Go big or go home.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edy on May 27, 2016, 01:03:30 pm
My father is an HVAC engineer who designed numerous AC and heat exchangers of various sizes for decades. He is actually going to Philadelphia regularly and is still involved in working at plants making coils as he is now based in New Jersey. He is going to do some research and may even be able to talk to the Noria developers. I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: ZeTeX on June 02, 2016, 06:13:30 pm
Much lower profile than my setup.  :P

(http://gal.redsquirrel.me/thumbs/lrg-1682-dsc05151.JPG) (http://gal.redsquirrel.me/images/other/random/dsc05151.JPG)

12,000 BTU though. Go big or go home.
http://www.ecomfort.com/Goodman-GFC138033100U-3/p56796.html (http://www.ecomfort.com/Goodman-GFC138033100U-3/p56796.html)
Go big or go home.
(Don't mind the electricity bill)
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edy on June 02, 2016, 06:53:11 pm
Hi Folks,

This is the response from my father in New Jersey who is an HVAC engineer and has designed small to multi-ton units for commercial to industrial applications for the last 5 decades. Excuse the spelling mistakes, English is not his first language:

Quote
Hi Edy,
I hope you didn't went ahead wit this investment. I did some reverse engineering, using the picture showing the prototype on an working bench, and concluded, the Evaporator couldn't deliver 5000 BTUH. I talk with others in the industry, and come to same concusion. If you must know, all this "window shekers" are made now to be control remote with an Android Cell Phone. I will send you an Email in afternoon, with the engineering figures based on the observation of the photo. I have to run to my Inspection routs.

As of this post, 32 hours to go.... Crunch time. 3,321 backers pledged $1,280,760 of $250,000 goal. It will almost definitely get funded.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 03, 2016, 12:00:47 am
Much lower profile than my setup.  :P

(http://gal.redsquirrel.me/thumbs/lrg-1682-dsc05151.JPG) (http://gal.redsquirrel.me/images/other/random/dsc05151.JPG)

12,000 BTU though. Go big or go home.
http://www.ecomfort.com/Goodman-GFC138033100U-3/p56796.html (http://www.ecomfort.com/Goodman-GFC138033100U-3/p56796.html)
Go big or go home.
(Don't mind the electricity bill)

That's actually not a bad price for a central unit.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: EEVblog on June 03, 2016, 01:57:50 am
$1.3M!  :o
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: EEVblog on June 03, 2016, 01:59:29 am
This is the response from my father in New Jersey who is an HVAC engineer and has designed small to multi-ton units for commercial to industrial applications for the last 5 decades. Excuse the spelling mistakes, English is not his first language:
Quote
Hi Edy,
I hope you didn't went ahead wit this investment. I did some reverse engineering, using the picture showing the prototype on an working bench, and concluded, the Evaporator couldn't deliver 5000 BTUH. I talk with others in the industry, and come to same concusion. If you must know, all this "window shekers" are made now to be control remote with an Android Cell Phone. I will send you an Email in afternoon, with the engineering figures based on the observation of the photo. I have to run to my Inspection routs.

Please do post his calculations!
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on June 03, 2016, 07:39:27 am
My guess is it will be underpowered, and maybe too noisy if used on full power.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: ConKbot on June 03, 2016, 08:20:38 pm
Tiny little AC unit, tiny evap and condenser both of which will be restrictive to make up for being small, tiny high static pressure fans to deal with the restrictive coils, for 1/2 the cost of my quality 6k btu/hr friedrich unit, and its going to be cheap, quiet, and efficient.

Yeah.  :-DD
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Jeroen3 on June 03, 2016, 08:42:09 pm
You must ask yourself. If they can do it for $300, why aren't they around already?
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: LabSpokane on June 03, 2016, 08:47:42 pm
$1.3M!  :o

This is another Batteroo.  It's a chunk of money, but nowhere enough to actually execute a project of this magnitude. 

And it does seem that they are likely fudging the Btu capabilities of the unit.  It's less than 1/3 the volume and half the weight of a competing compact air conditioner that is 6000 Btu instead of 5000 Btu.  The laws of heat transfer govern the surface area of the coils necessary to dump the waste heat.  Unless they have some new type of refrigeration mechanism that has a much higher delta T, it's unclear how the cut the size and weight so substantially.

Noria size (5000 Btu):  5.8''H x 18.25''W x 15''D = 1588 cu inch

Fridgidaire size (6000 Btu):  18 x 23.6 x 12.2 inches = 5182 cu inch

Worse yet, credible competitors already exist.  This is the 6000 Btu unit for $280:

http://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-Window-Mounted-Profile-Conditioner-Full-Function/dp/B00IYQYN82/ref=sr_1_17?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1464986556&sr=1-17&keywords=window+air+conditioner (http://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-Window-Mounted-Profile-Conditioner-Full-Function/dp/B00IYQYN82/ref=sr_1_17?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1464986556&sr=1-17&keywords=window+air+conditioner)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71poTj5ryzL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: NiHaoMike on June 04, 2016, 08:50:56 pm
They could be using deeper coils to get the same surface area, at the cost of higher restriction.

Where I think they're really losing out on efficiency is the way they're bouncing the cold air off the ceiling. A design that would make more sense is to draw from the top/sides/bottom and blow out the front, with stepper motors controlling the vents. Add a PIR array (really low resolution thermal camera) to automatically detect where to direct the cooling to where it's needed. Drive the compressor off an inverter so it can be throttled back to match demand exactly. You'll basically end up with something that works like a fancy Gree mini split, just a lot easier to install.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: rollatorwieltje on April 05, 2018, 02:30:57 am
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kapsul-cool-redefined-design#/updates/all (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kapsul-cool-redefined-design#/updates/all)

Choo choo, the failtrain is nearing it's destination. Endless delays, renamed project, deleted social media...
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 05, 2018, 05:25:44 am
They should have called it Kaput.  >:D
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: thm_w on April 05, 2018, 07:53:27 pm
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kapsul-cool-redefined-design#/updates/all (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kapsul-cool-redefined-design#/updates/all)

Choo choo, the failtrain is nearing it's destination. Endless delays, renamed project, deleted social media...


Quote
TWO: We didn’t want to give you uncertain information without real dates, but we need you to know that there is now NO WAY that we are going to deliver by summer of 2018. We know how flipping frustrated and disappointed many of you are to hear that. We feel it too. I can say that our founders are currently in China working on our factory order and will have an actual, final, very real delivery date when they return and the ink is dry on the page. By or before April 15, we shall release a moment by moment timeline of the birth and delivery of your air conditioner.

THREE: We are really, tremendously, profoundly sorry about being so late. We want to try to compensate and thank you in some tangible way for sticking with us through this saga and making it possible to create the most amazing air conditioner ever built by anyone... anywhere... period. For some of you, we recognize that this is just a bridge too far and you can take no more! We will work hard to help you too. All that said …I’d love your input. Tell me how we can repay you for your support, kindness and trust.
...
P.S. For those of you who are wondering exactly what’s causing all these delays, I’m working on a detailed report of the challenges we’ve faced and how we’ve navigated them. Look for that in a future update (coming soon!) along with photos of our recent adventures in China.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: james_s on April 05, 2018, 08:51:44 pm
Yes I know you do have some hinges. ;)
But the sliders are historically the far most common, as far as I 've seen on TV at least.  :P

I don't recall ever seeing a window that wasn't sliding, unless you count camper trailers or old mobile homes. I've been to a number of parts of the US, most of the populated areas in Western Canada and part of the UK and sliding windows seem to be pretty standard. I'm not sure how you'd make a window AC unit for a window that didn't slide.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Delta on April 05, 2018, 09:10:20 pm
And just like Batterooiser, you cannae change the laws of physics!
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edavid on April 06, 2018, 03:50:55 am
I don't recall ever seeing a window that wasn't sliding, unless you count camper trailers or old mobile homes. I've been to a number of parts of the US, most of the populated areas in Western Canada and part of the UK and sliding windows seem to be pretty standard.

You've never seen casement windows  :-//

https://www.andersenwindows.com/windows-and-doors/windows/casement-windows/ (https://www.andersenwindows.com/windows-and-doors/windows/casement-windows/)

Quote
I'm not sure how you'd make a window AC unit for a window that didn't slide.

https://www.ajmadison.com/guides/air_conditioner/window/ (https://www.ajmadison.com/guides/air_conditioner/window/)
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: james_s on April 06, 2018, 04:06:30 am
Oh I guess I have seen casement windows, now that I think about it there are a couple of them in my mom's house. They're certainly rare around here though, the vast majority are sliding.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edy on April 12, 2018, 05:56:04 pm
I found this article but it is a bit old:

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/04/18/noria-air-conditioner-kickstarter-kurt-swanson/ (https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/04/18/noria-air-conditioner-kickstarter-kurt-swanson/)

It explains a lot about the concerns that it may be a scam, comments from backers due to the delays, reply by Swanson who is leading up the Noria venture. They raised $2.2 million and it seems they are disappearing quietly into the night with all that money.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Dave3 on July 05, 2019, 01:38:06 am
As the summer heat ramps in once again in the northern hemisphere, yet another deadline has slipped by Noria (now Kapsul).

In a 5 February 2019 update letter, the CEO claims to have raised another $3m of the $4m needed to get this to market. There were a few more recent updates but those are for "investors" only. A few of the commenters noted that updated shipping address and refund details are not so critical at this point lol.

The Kapsul design is sleek and attractive. I like the lower profile but reduced air intake will hit efficiency, noise, and power. These guys deserve some recognition for trying to "revolutionize" commodity window air conditioners with a budget of just a few million dollars.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined/posts/2407626 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined/posts/2407626)
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 05, 2019, 03:12:00 am
5000 btu will take ages to cool a room like my lab here (very small about 10 x 15') guesstimation from my $250 9000 btu portable here that struggles to do the job, it only good for spot cooling, turn it off? its hot again. an excuse that need more fund for that small unit is simply bollock imho or they just got their workflow wrong. welcome to washington corporation, there goes 2M vanish into the thin air.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Siwastaja on July 05, 2019, 10:44:18 am
I realized I'm replying to an old case, but as my points are completely valid regardless and may apply to any new such product, I leave this here:

If the big AC suppliers cannot make a window unit small, why whould a random kickstarter campain be able to do it?

This reasoning is stupid beyond belief, as is this:

You must ask yourself. If they can do it for $300, why aren't they around already?

Almost all game changing innovation, ever, has been about an originally small player being able to pull of something the giants can't. Often, they become big themselves.

Big players can put a lot of resources for certain optimizations if they want, but the issue typically is that they don't see the market.

Someone's always the first. Always, with 100% certainty. Hence, the quoted claim is automatically proven wrong.

And just like Batterooiser, you cannae change the laws of physics!

Exactly which law of physics their claims are contradicting?

Give some real engineering arguments, or go home.

I don't see anything fundamentally impossible here, I totally see the point of the product, and having looked at traditional window AC units, I'm 100% certain there is room for optimizing the size and noise level of the products. If they can deliver their specs, I would rather have one (well, without the stupid mobile UI thing.)

For example, the compressor technology has changed significantly, but I'm not aware of many window AC units that take advantage of this. The big players are mostly concentrating on making the two-piece units better and better (and OTOH, improving refrigerators and freezers).

Their power level choice makes perfect sense. Oftentimes, AC units are oversized thinking that bigger is better, but for AC, IMHO, it doesn't work that way. In humid climates especially, a smaller unit which runs less air through the evaporator, keeping it cooler, better removes moisture from the air, which makes it much more comfortable, even if a thermometer still reads fairly high. I have seen massively oversized systems that keep the evaporator near room temp by pushing massive amounts of air through it, cooling the room very well but increasing the RH to over 90%.

In this time of excess energy consumption and overpopulation, we should indeed concentrate making our lives comfortable enough, not bruteforcing a +20 degC indoor temperature during the hottest season. From this viewpoint, I'd rather take a physically small, more quiet, easier to install device, even if it's underpowered, and even if it fails to provide a nice +21degC during the hottest times.

The market (and Kickstarter) is literally saturated with fake cooling devices (which are either completely con devices, or "work" based on humidifying the air, which can reduce the temperature in extremely dry climates, but increase the dew point to make it more uncomfortable.) This is an actual compressor-based device that actually dehumidifies and cools; I welcome any innovation to make these real compressor units smaller, because they tend to be too big.

Could they, or others succeed in doing a device with these specs robustly (or at all!), is another question completely. No one's saying it's an easy task. The odds of any new business failing are nearly 100%. And odds for any business on Kickstarter being or becoming a scam are high. But the arguments I see in this thread are very poor, except a few good points like the calculation of the outer measurements of similar competitors.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Siwastaja on July 05, 2019, 10:48:28 am
5000 btu will take ages to cool a room like my lab here (very small about 10 x 15') guesstimation from my $250 9000 btu portable here that struggles to do the job

It's because of the inherent flaw in the portable machines, you don't get the benefit of the full 9000 btu cooling power because it's sucking in more hot air. Worst case, the net effect is negative and you only get the benefit of localized cooling by sitting right in the breeze. Totally sucks. Literally.

A proper 5000btu two-section unit is likely more powerful in cooling than the classical 9000 btu portable unit, with the advantage of saving energy.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: donotdespisethesnake on July 05, 2019, 12:03:01 pm
Almost all game changing innovation, ever, has been about an originally small player being able to pull of something the giants can't. Often, they become big themselves.

Big players can put a lot of resources for certain optimizations if they want, but the issue typically is that they don't see the market.

Someone's always the first. Always, with 100% certainty. Hence, the quoted claim is automatically proven wrong.

I think you are just trolling, you seem to enjoy playing Devils advocate. You reasoning is non-sensical.

Almost all failed business startups are about a small player thinking they can pull off something the giants can't, and failing...
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marco on July 05, 2019, 03:05:15 pm
A proper 5000btu two-section unit is likely more powerful in cooling
And a window unit is a proper two section unit, only the refrigerant crosses from inside to out and vice versa.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 05, 2019, 04:20:27 pm
It's because of the inherent flaw in the portable machines, you don't get the benefit of the full 9000 btu cooling power because it's sucking in more hot air. Worst case, the net effect is negative and you only get the benefit of localized cooling by sitting right in the breeze. Totally sucks. Literally.
i believe a/c manufacturers know what they are doing, and yes there are compromise (not flaw) to get the "portability" feature, but with proper setup or modification, the compromise effect can be reduced, so is the portability unfortunately. the one i bought is single outlet i mean it only push hot air (after cooling the condenser) to outside, but has to suck room (already cooled) air to do so. so yeah, room air is circulating and has to suck normal/hotter air from outside to compensate negative room pressure created by the process. to reduce this effect, i'm thinking to mod the unit similar idea to Squirel posted 3 years ago.
(http://gal.redsquirrel.me/thumbs/lrg-1682-dsc05151.JPG) (http://gal.redsquirrel.me/images/other/random/dsc05151.JPG)
this way, the inside air stay cool, the condenser is cooled using outside air, then dumped to another outside again. there are off the shelf double outlet unit like this but unfortunately its not available in my place when i was looking for it...

(https://www.yourbestdigs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Portable-AC_Group-Back-1.jpg)

(https://learn.allergyandair.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/portable-air-dual-hose.jpg)

A proper 5000btu two-section unit is likely more powerful in cooling than the classical 9000 btu portable unit, with the advantage of saving energy.
i wont bet my money on device that small regardless. anyway, after 3 years of story, it seems its not coming anytime soon, the old man has to look for another solution or walk around costco if he cant stand years of waiting. and i think if this thing is practical, a/c manufacturers already do it.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marco on July 06, 2019, 01:11:26 pm
There's mini splits for caravans which aren't that far off weight wise (27kg for 7000 btu) and 500 Watt compressors are pretty small ... it's more a question of marketing. No one has ever seen a market for a residential unit this low power.

There probably isn't a market without the kickstarter marketing to idiots angle. Whether it's 20 kg or 40 kg I'd need a strong bracket regardless and how often will this fit when an existing small window unit won't?
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: SiliconWizard on July 19, 2019, 01:33:34 pm
SO... did they ever deliver? ;D
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edy on July 22, 2019, 11:46:23 pm
Doesn't look like it. I'm reading the updates and they are still having trouble getting money. What are they working on? The key engineering? If they even built one functioning unit that is functioning and performing according to their claimed design specs, that would be enough to convince any investor or group to back them. I don't think they have a working unit, and the entire crowd-funding campaign (as we have seen with MANY OTHER failed projects) is used for R & D only to realize years later that it is not possible to technologically overcome these laws of physics limitations. We have seen this time and time again.

Build just one working prototype (crude as it may look) that is performing and has the size you want, and the money will flow in to build the plastic molding, make the software app, reduce costs due to scale of production, etc. These people on Kickstarter and IndieGogo work BACKWARDS. First they get some artists and marketing wankers to make beautiful renders and come up with specs that don't look too far off existing expectations, and then they take everybody's money and screw around with it for several years to see if it is possible.


Here is an interview with Kurt Swanson about rebranding Noria to Kapsul:

https://artofthekickstart.com/rebranding-a-company-and-overcoming-challenges-with-kurt-swanson-aotk-244/ (https://artofthekickstart.com/rebranding-a-company-and-overcoming-challenges-with-kurt-swanson-aotk-244/)



Someone previously posted....

Quote
Exactly which law of physics their claims are contradicting?

Give some real engineering arguments, or go home.

I don't see anything fundamentally impossible here, I totally see the point of the product, and having looked at traditional window AC units, I'm 100% certain there is room for optimizing the size and noise level of the products. If they can deliver their specs, I would rather have one (well, without the stupid mobile UI thing.)

Well I can tell you that anyone who does the math and has an HVAC engineering degree will agree with my father, who lives an hour out of Philadelphia and is an experienced HVAC designer (having developed numerous A/C units from small up to 20 TON units that go on buildings)... and he says that what they are claiming to do is beyond the laws of physics.

And that is ultimately why after 3 years and millions and millions of dollars they haven't come up with anything. Their design is ultimately not capable of what they are trying to achieve, and that is due to a limitation in the physical requirements of the refrigerant circuit flow, amount of heat exchange that can occur during a given amount of time, the air flow and surface area of the coils, etc... these are fundamental HVAC principles and laws of thermodynamics that experienced HVAC engineers for decades have been unable to overcome.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: SiliconWizard on July 24, 2019, 12:57:29 pm
Sad story.Looks like it will end up in the same cemetery as solar roads... ;D
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Siwastaja on July 24, 2019, 02:27:56 pm
Quote
Someone's always the first. Always, with 100% certainty. Hence, the quoted claim is automatically proven wrong.

I think you are just trolling, you seem to enjoy playing Devils advocate. You reasoning is non-sensical.

No, my comment was not a trolling, nor non-sensical, because it was a simple fact based on physical reality, not opinion.

The classical argument that something cannot happen because it hasn't already happened is totally nonsensical and objectively untrue. Someone is always first, by definition. (Another logical possibility is that nothing is ever happening at all. Would you sign that?)

I have hard time understanding how otherwise sensible people fall into this line of thinking again and again. It's probably an emotional phenomenon called "cynicism" taking over the brain and shutting down basic logical fact-checking. I know, I love to be cynical as well, which is exactly why I force myself out of that comfort zone, and force myself to think rationally instead. And people won't like it. They want circlejerk friends, not to be questioned.

Quote
Almost all failed business startups are about a small player thinking they can pull off something the giants can't, and failing...

Of course, and almost all fail, because the number of those who try is orders of magnitude more of those who succeed. It's called competition. And competition is harsh, and developing new things is really difficult where all the details matter. (BTW, it's not about giants that "can't", it's more often about giants that "won't". A big difference. And guess what? Inside the giants, a lot of internal development fails. It's just hidden.)

Yet sometimes breakthroughs happen. Maybe 0.01% of the time. Blue LEDs, for example, that enabled modern low-energy lighting, is an interesting story about a fairly small company playing on a very limited R&D budget, basically very enterpreneur-like one man show within a small company, trying out things, hitting a gold mine and growing as a result. Now they are a large company.

Henry Ford also built his first car at his home. He even failed once with his startup, got more backers and retried. If he had completely failed, we just wouldn't remember him. They are big now. Confirmation bias.


It's easy to shout from the bushes that "this is going to fail", because your odds of being right are so good, almost 100%. It's like placing bets that Usain Bolt's going to run a faster time than me. No shit Sherlock. You were right, congratulations :clap:. Then in the next thread, you are again right, congratulations :clap:. There are words to describe the process: circle jerk, or echo chamber.

But this is meaningless discussion only for your own ego, nothing else.

Actually debunking things, OTOH, is highly respectable, because of so many con devices, often claiming to break laws of physics. In the process, you teach about physics and engineering, and learn yourself. Actual debunking is always based on technical arguments and physical facts. Otherwise, you lose your credibility (outside your small echo chamber) quickly.

Pointing out that startups almost always fail is a meaningless, trivial fact which proves absolutely nothing.

Look, every time someone claims miraculous new battery technology and it's in the media, I'm called and asked have I heard about this amazing new technology. And I reply: "Yes [regardless of whether I actually have heard about it], it's bullshit, not going to actually happen". I base my bets on the 99.99% of the cases not being quick breakthroughs, or usually being outright scams, and of course I have a 100% success rate here, it's easy, just say "no" to everything. But one day it will happen that I'm wrong for once, and I'm eagerly looking for that day.

But circlejerk is only fun for about 5 minutes without actual solid technical arguments. Then it gets boring, nasty, and smelly.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 24, 2019, 05:51:03 pm
i dont mind startup that fails, i do mind startup that lies, i dont think Mr Ford lied to his backers back then, "investors"? investors get paid each time products sold, crowdfund backers get what?. they promised or give hope that they will deliver. they showed a prototype picture that looked like to be working in the first place, and then ask people's money and say you will get a working unit on this or that date. after years of waiting they came out with a video showing people cadding on a comfy table and PC, on another scene people discussing about the effectiveness of a fan design they just have invented. so where is the working prototype they were showing? right, the money is for feeding them in few years working in R&D for a prototype that never took place. but then when they are very close, they want to rebrand it to some name to fill pile of shit in, and probably sell it to another market region, so whats with backers left with hope? right, they helped the startup to build their business on from ground up, that was the intention wasnt it? objective achieved. with the advent of crowd funding we'll see more and more of this scams on engineering wannabe level with some lame excuses. reminds me of that water from nothing generator and solus 200% efficient heater brought up earlier.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marco on July 24, 2019, 06:02:20 pm
It's not a break through, it's just marketing.

It promises around 3000 cubic inches at 40 pounds for 5000 BTU nominal cooling. A Frigidaire FFRE063ZA1 (https://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-FFRE063ZA1-Mounted-Conditioner-Capacity/dp/B07PWHL4FM) is around 3750 cubic inches at 45.9 pounds for 6000 BTU nominal cooling. Playing around a bit with airflow and efficiency the remaining distance between those numbers isn't going to be hard to cross.

If they fail to produce it it's because of business reasons, not physics.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 24, 2019, 06:07:20 pm
thats not look like something that a lady can grab and hide under the bed... and 40 pounds is heavier than some boat anchor..
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Marco on July 24, 2019, 06:15:08 pm
If you have the strength and reach to relatively safely a wrangle Noria into a window you can probably do it with the Frigidaire, either way you're moving 20+ kg into what is likely to be a multi-story window ... you should probably do it with 2 people just to be safe. You'll need to store it in a closet instead of under a bed/couch, big woop.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Siwastaja on July 24, 2019, 07:40:38 pm
It promises around 3000 cubic inches at 40 pounds for 5000 BTU nominal cooling. A Frigidaire FFRE063ZA1 (https://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-FFRE063ZA1-Mounted-Conditioner-Capacity/dp/B07PWHL4FM) is around 3750 cubic inches at 45.9 pounds for 6000 BTU nominal cooling. Playing around a bit with airflow and efficiency the remaining distance between those numbers isn't going to be hard to cross.

Oh, but someone's dad knows better, so Frigidaire is completely lying and scamming us because dad laws of physics say so!

Thank you for an actual contribution, and completely debunking the "laws of physics" cargo cult circlejerk club in one go.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 24, 2019, 11:46:16 pm
if you have nothing to do other than spewing bullshit you better just enjoy and watch. the original spec of Noria was...

Size: 5.8''H x 18.25''W x 15''D
Weight: Approximately 30 pounds.
Cooling Capacity: 5,000 BTU/hour.

Frigidaire
Size: 15.8 x 18.6 x 12.8 inches
Weight: 45.9 pounds
Cooling Capacity: 6000 BTU

thats only 1500 cubic inches for Noria, half of Frigidaire... so if you cant realize this elementary facts and not having the slightest idea, you should stop spewing bullshit in an attempt to back a failed enthusiast, and congratulation to Marco for making that like apple to apple comparison. if Mr Kurt thinks that reducing volume by half and yet still try to press as much refrigerant into the system as twice the volume unit and expect it to work optimally in Carnot cycle, then i think he is delusional.

the average market price for such a window unit or (10kbtu or 1HP AC unit) is around $250. Noria asked $600, $350 more because it has bluetooth and wifi IC in it and some colorful leds. $350 x 3715 = $1.3M solely can be used for R&D (which they should already done before the campaign) and one-time tooling cost, the $250/unit cost from the $600 asking price is still untouched, thats is another $1M money. and yet they still short of fund. i think they want to make Agilent factory.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Siwastaja on July 25, 2019, 02:15:45 pm
the original spec of Noria was...

Size: 5.8''H x 18.25''W x 15''D
Weight: Approximately 30 pounds.
Cooling Capacity: 5,000 BTU/hour.
thats only 1500 cubic inches for Noria

Thank you for pointing out the change-of-specs. A real technical contribution, wow!

So the Original Noria for reference:
1588 cubic inches (not 1500; 1600 would be correctly rounded. Yes, a 7% rounding error is significant when we are talking about numbers of 36% to 50%)
0.318 in^3 per BTU

Quote
Frigidaire
Size: 15.8 x 18.6 x 12.8 inches
Cooling Capacity: 6000 BTU

0.627 in^3 per BTU
Noria's claimed improvement compared to this Frigidaire: 49%

But wait, there are others:
Frigidaire FFRE0833S1
(18.5*17.5*13.4)/8000 = 0.542 in^3 per BTU
Noria's claimed improvement compared to this: 41%

Danby DAC080B5WDB
(16.8*18.5*13.4)/8000 = 0.521 in^3 per BTU
Noria's claimed improvement compared to this: 39%

Frigidaire FFRE1233S1
(19*21.5*14.5)/12000 = .494 in^3 per BTU
Noria's claimed improvement compared to this: 36%
(This is the best volumetric power density cheap window AC number I found in a 10-minute search.)

Now I have a few rhetorical questions and comments for you. No need to reply, I'm not following the thread after this:

Do you have an understanding about the third exponent in volumetric measurements, and its implications?

Where is the source for the implied claim that existing machines are totally size-optimized for every millimeter, and, not for - OMG - price? (A personal experience: I'm running my AC unit without the cover, because it has a stupid form and the casing mostly holds dead space inside. Its volume down by at least 30-40% just by removing the stupidly designed cover.)

Do you realize that the measurements listed are inaccurate, tend to be rounded, sometimes to half an inch? A 36% volumetric difference might easily be 45%, or 25%.

Have you seen a size difference of a 50/60Hz AC compressor, and a new-generation inverter-driven BLDC compressor of same size, in a modern AC unit?

How do you base the idea that the existing window machines represent the highest evolution of compressor technology, such as BLDC compressors with inverter drive? I'm not saying Noria implements these, but it's a possible implementation.

You can quickly show, to high certainty, that something likely is going to be physically impossible if they claim an improvement of 1000%.

But how do you instantly know, without doing the actual full design math, that a claimed 36% increase in volumetric power density (11% linear increase in each dimension satisfies this condition, for example) is completely impossible, by laws of physics? Of course you don't. You are just full of bullshit.

I can instantly see many of technical details I could do to increase the power density, if I wanted to, like:

* Use an inverter drive, drive the compressor motor at higher frequency; optimize the motor lamination thickness and core material to decrease core losses again. This easily reduces the motor size to 1/3, BTDT.

* Optimize the inverter size using modern semiconductor technology. I can fit a 1kW inverter drive in 0.5x1x3 inch area.

* Change the evaporator and condenser coil spreader leafs from aluminum to copper; make them couple better to the copper pipes, using thermal interface materials, or even welding or soldering the leafs. The typical way of coupling kinda sucks. It's cheap to manufacture; they just use bigger coils to compensate.

* Use modern fan design. Classical implementations require a lot of dead space to direct the airflow to the full condenser/evaporator coil, from one centrifugal or radial fan. Centrifugal fan itself has a good airflow-to-volume ratio, but when equipped with the required air channels, it isn't so good anymore. Besides, they tend to again use 50/60Hz induction motors for these fans. For a point of comparison, look for modern laptop cooling (airflow to volume ratio).

* Use modern electronics to create the front panels. These are classically HUGE, including mechanical knobs, or deep components like DIP 7-segment LED displays. Not uncommon at all that the front panel unit is 10x4x1 inches alone.


Quote
the average market price for such a window unit or (10kbtu or 1HP AC unit) is around $250. Noria asked $600, $350 more because it has bluetooth and wifi IC in it and some colorful leds.

It didn't occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the higher price could be because of, you know, optimization work went into power density, instead of price. Just sayin'. It would be a logical conclusion.

(In reality, I agree with you that it's likely a con, and the price went into the colorful leds. I don't like them either. But this is besides the point.)

The fact they had to change the specs means they clearly didn't make it. But, the circle jerk club is still wrong, as clearly shown. After this analysis I can say with full confidence that the answer to the question in the title, is it too good to be true, is no; the specifications are completely feasible and achievable by good engineering and optimization.

Make your own conclusions.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edy on July 25, 2019, 05:11:44 pm
Oh, but someone's dad knows better, so Frigidaire is completely lying and scamming us because dad laws of physics say so!

 :-DD    Yes, dad laws of physics always win in my book!  And it's not Frigidaire that is scamming/lying... last I checked they actually delivered working products to the market.

Anyways, assuming it is possible to achieve what Noria set out to do... laws of physics aside, where's the result? It only makes the argument for them worse... That is, they are now without any result for something that is physically possible! Which is worse? To try to do something physically impossible and fail, or to just take money when you could have accomplished something possible within laws of physics and current tech?  :-//

I'm all for Noria succeeding... this will be good for everyone. I sincerely hope it comes to fruition. But each day that passes, my confidence that we will get something anywhere close to the original specs and size and cooling capacity that Noria originally promised diminishes.

And by the way, if it was just a matter of taking out the "dead space" in between the components in the air-conditioner and using a few smaller more efficient newly available components to shrink it down 30-40%, don't you think it would have been possible already after all this money and time? Minus all the Wifi/Bluetooth electronic circuit, how hard do you think it is to create the RAW air-conditioner and prove it works? Then add all the other stuff (app, Wifi, fancy enclosure) later.
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 25, 2019, 05:55:54 pm
Anyways, assuming it is possible to achieve what Noria set out to do... laws of physics aside, where's the result? It only makes the argument for them worse... That is, they are now without any result for something that is physically possible! Which is worse? To try to do something physically impossible and fail, or to just take money when you could have accomplished something possible within laws of physics and current tech?  :-//
ditto!
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: edy on July 25, 2019, 06:30:21 pm
Look what I found at Walmart Canada for $139 CA (like less than $100 US) (Midea 5000 BTU A/C):

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/midea-5000-btu-window-air-conditioner/6000199090296?cmpid=sem_google_en_pla_none_1075009830_54173645458_None&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8q2V4NfQ4wIVwxx9Ch0snQrREAQYASABEgJ8UfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/midea-5000-btu-window-air-conditioner/6000199090296?cmpid=sem_google_en_pla_none_1075009830_54173645458_None&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8q2V4NfQ4wIVwxx9Ch0snQrREAQYASABEgJ8UfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)


(https://i5.walmartimages.ca/images/Large/737/819/6000199737819.jpg)

Midea 5000 BTU A/C as per Wal-Mart website Dimensions and weight:

Assembled Height     12.05 in
Assembled Length     13.19 in
Assembled Width       15.98 in
Assembled Weight     35.27 lb


Now the Kapsul W5 info found on the site: https://www.kapsulair.com/faq (https://www.kapsulair.com/faq)

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8f7206_89b810cf35fa4444816ea9f39da91144~mv2_d_3300_1856_s_2.jpg)

This has been revised since the original campaign to be more within realistic (not breaking the law of physics) specifications. Remember still on their Noria page (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined/description (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined/description)) it still says 5.8''H x 18.25''W x 15''D and weight approx. 30 lb, which itself may have changed since the original campaign started (I'm sure someone can confirm if this size/weight has crept up during the last few years without anyone noticing website modifications).

Anyways, their Kapsul W5 specs are as follows:

Height: Face: 7.28" Adapter band: 7.68"
Width: 19.69"
Depth: Body of unit is 22" (8" of that comes into the room, the rest extends through the wall and outside.) 23.87" includes the faceplate and temperature knob.
Weight: 40 lbs (even weight distribution and handles at each end make it easy to carry and even possible to hold with one hand.)

Ok now let's compare dimensions:

               Midea           Kapsul
Height     12.05 in         7.28 in
Length     13.19 in        19.69 in
Width       15.98 in        22.00 in
Weight     35.27 lb        40.00 lb

WHHAAAATTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!  |O   :-DD   |O   :-DD   |O   :-DD   |O

How is this freakingly possible??? Somebody quick go to Walmart and buy a Midea and re-arrange the insides to the shape of a Kapsul and send it to them... you have solved the problem and saved their Kickstarter/IndieGogo campaign!  :-DD

Noria volume:           1587.75 cu in  @ ~30 lb         (5.8 x 18.25 x 15)
Midea volume:           2540 cu in @ ~35 lb            (12.05 x 13.19 x 15.98)
Kapsul W5 volume:    3153 cu in @ ~ 40 lb           (7.28 x 19.69 x 22)

WOW!  :palm:  Their original "Noria" size was HALF the size of what they are now pushing as the Kapsul W5, and you can pick up a Midea from Wal-Mart today for about $100 US which is SMALLER than a Kapsul W5 and LIGHTER.  :palm:  It's too bad they weren't honest with their specs at the time they launched their campaign. Maybe they wouldn't have had as many backers. But since when is honesty a requirement of Kickstarter/IndieGogo campaigns?

So I guess it is not the laws of physics limiting them... it's the laws of morality!  :box:

Dad-Cad says a Midea and Kapsul W5 is physically possible, but a 40% reduction in size compared to the Midea (which is what Noria wanted us to believe) is not. This all boils back to Noria's original claims of size and weight. I'm pretty confident Kapsul W5 can be delivered... at this point you would have to be completely incompetent or crooks or both not to be able to release an A/C that is larger and weighs more than what is already available. Let's hope the Kickstarter and IndieGoGo backers at least receive a Kapsul W5 for their troubles, or send them a Midea in the meantime.  :-DD
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 26, 2019, 04:41:13 am
if they go the waterseer way type of R&D (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/waterseer/msg2531616/#msg2531616)... by taking parts apart and put into their capsule sheet hole... they should already deliver long time ago with somewhat crippled btu, but who cares? as long as they put 5000 btu sticker on top of it and backers are happy with the placebo effect... here the closest thing so far to 1500 cu.inch... 3072BTU Window Air Conditioner (https://www.ebay.com/itm/220V-900W-3072BTU-Window-Air-Conditioner-Cool-Air-Purification-Dehumidification/173896778969?hash=item287d0e44d9&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&enc=AQAEAAADEKvsXIZtBqdkfsZsMtzFbFsbX3WcW5fmB%2Fx7ZbaZTyex6lDP2Ts2dj05gzGhT%2BY679nJjlon9vZzNhv6EwiOP1cQUXZri05DBs4RaASt2vaxFKzl92pMjBUhto57veLbhzXgIe4FxugTGRFH1mrz6t5LUBD0aGM4qaFuS385qXPJGRhGz1TYWPaZ0PUhygzYlArHjmcQM3hkMlNb4gllMbOgn4uu%2FYDiO%2BwDIDELi9YISVrXCe%2FxMwpi4gqM3WD9Jnt6wHhxb77OJF3mR5fY5eUo3Qt9dsncxmZExddhI%2FD%2F4e00%2FPlkfR2hAhYJueF0RwU6MJDq8kYHeAN4szfh4gngxJGuzqO9ezAq9WdGyvp7QA3NHYiHF110u%2Ftmy8zZ%2F2cu1pykDKBp26FShFKveFRZZOlwPGAYfklP13RLjgLHG1aV0Gn7UtrWxuE%2BdHwHULImjsQUTD5Gax1N4Y3r9CGjsVD1tquSc6E3OIKY%2Ba0%2BxF4I5f3PiaiNwigP7U1hNMFUWJDIl7z1z7w3FZUDNg7JN6VV0azTnYg3PuwyeID2rD2xSrL%2B%2FxummwQ3J2n0KICV5E0zDA%2BK90Jz7PST0R%2FrP71kehgDAob6kul7kzqBO3T2C0Fg4fULBg%2FZpuYIAV%2BBIoYHsgMn0B9gKN0PE9J83%2BkGllDge8v5CTJAX04SYkOwZQU3740nFvK%2BfLrswqbAcFQqr1XVbilvTdhiIRzUn15iPUDbZHLGTSpwanhviqA3vZAnOp14g12w5IEHVJRAO2lTEGoyVrUMWUanzajyF7C6Z%2BfcTR725SRbp6J4QRMZp71N2U4ToC3Ibn%2FQqhJ74jF9akMXrIehAeWH3h%2BHiOEOEIFBUgJpuOMcIDQF%2FKLKPg3J0vjb0JFGqPFOQygK3nE8E5zBZABB2hirbF9ZyXpSf3%2BK83gSoMqKHSRj7PBa5jL5uM9jvUM8Y3Bouo6KqKlJ%2BAMThBwyYp4KZjZSg0sLcNB%2FP8e8Rnn1s%2B0fGw%2FK%2BwK6qsLWGjZ%2BVhDcaXoYlkqzvfZkOJH7Tbakpw8%3D&checksum=1738967789692f3da1e929e24507a8db444c8729f637) with excess $200-300 of the crowd fund cost, they can enjoy the retirement happy life with the $1M+ china Jho Low easy come easy go everybody happy way...
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 03, 2019, 06:25:40 pm
i just found a smaller version of this. much smaller but much cooler. who will have the bragging right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il4oR6Qbi4E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il4oR6Qbi4E)
Title: Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 03, 2019, 08:27:29 pm
Something like this could have had potential if it was marketed and designed right.   There is not much as far as battery operated A/C units, ex: for small off grid setups.  A ~500BTU unit that runs on a 12v BLDC (to vary cooling capacity) could be very useful for say, tent camping.  could run off a small solar setup and you could adjust the power usage by slowing down the compressor.  Don't try to be fancy and use "revolutionary" tech, make it use a standard refrigeration cycle, just make it lower capacity/power usage and make it run on DC.

Essentially make it like a portable with two 1" air hoses (air inlet/outlet).   Essentially it would be a mini high velocity system.