Author Topic: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?  (Read 13993 times)

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Offline erandored

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kurt/noria-cool-redefined

Almost seems too good to be true.  Worth looking into the specs they list to see if the math works.  The price seems really low as well.
 

Offline Photon939

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 05:26:54 am »
Hey look, a crowdfunding project where they actually show some guts of the unit! I think I've been jaded by all the terrible Indiegogo scams lately.

Efficiency and cooling capacity numbers are certainly in the range of possibility.

The main downside I see of this unit is smaller size for a given cooling capacity means increased air velocity. Smaller coils get dirty faster.

The photo of the refrigeration system looks the same as your typical window ac with the exception of a horizontally mounted rotary compressor.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 05:45:02 am »
The only advantages are size and weight.  Conventional window air conditioners cost $100-200 and often have higher EER than this one.  Also, you don't have to wait until next year to get them :)

 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 05:54:05 am »
Interesting, might be good for some small spaces.

Not a fan of the exterior up-facing vent though. It really should be out-facing, or down-facing to protect the inside workings from rain [and any other falling debris].
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2016, 07:21:15 am »
The fresh air mode is really novel. All of the low end units I looked at did not have that, and it could save some energy, by say activating automatically when the outside temperature drops. As long as it has a good filter on the outside portion of the unit.
The one I got has manually operated mini vent (to prevent CO2 buildup?), but this sounds much better.

I would consider one but it can't be mounted vertically.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2016, 07:29:03 am »
...kickstarter....Almost seems too good to be true...
That has become rather a cliché, hasn't it?
 

Offline MarkS

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 10:50:15 am »
I went to school for HVAC and have designed phase change cooling for computers in the past. I'm not too thrilled by the design. There are some major issues with liquid slugging from lying a compressor on its side, although not as much with rotary compressors. However, rotary compressors (pictured in the Kickstarter link) are the loudest types, so I'm curious how they are keeping the noise down. Also, the condenser coil is about half the size of a typical 5000 BTU window unit, of which I currently have in my bedroom, so I'm curious how well it will be able to condense the refrigerant. I'm really curious about the efficiency and longevity of the unit.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 11:54:27 am by MarkS »
 

Offline mmagin

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 10:51:24 am »
5000 BTU/hr is enough for a well-insulated bedroom.  It's not much.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 11:08:19 am »
I'm really curious about the efficiency and longevity of the unit.

So have many others who put up their money to find out:

200@$249

1017@$299

349@$549

43@$825

46@$1099      !!!!!!!!!!!!

Can these numbers be real?  A lot of nuts with money if real.   :-//
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Offline MadModder

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2016, 12:09:48 am »
And it only works with sliding windows. Everywhere else in the world where we use hinges on our windows, it's useless.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 12:25:36 am »
And totally doesnt work if you dont have a sliding window.
 

Offline rollatorwieltje

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2016, 12:52:55 am »
If the big AC suppliers cannot make a window unit small, why whould a random kickstarter campain be able to do it? They are big for a reason. The smallest units I've seen are marine units that use external water to dump the heat into. This Noria thing is about as big as the evaporator of a 5000 btu Webasto, and somehow it manages to also contain the compressor, condensor and fans... Somehow I have a little bit more confidence in Webasto. I'm pretty sure the AC manufacturers would kill for a smaller unit, size is pretty much a key selling point for mobile/marine applications.

Of course you can make a tiny AC unit like they did, but it really doesn't have a capacity of 5000 btu. This thing has about the size of a Vapochill unit that were all the rage a decade ago to massively overclock your computer. Fun in a computer, but you absolutely cannot cool a room with that (well, not significantly anyway). Afaik it had the performance of an average refrigerator.
 
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Online edavid

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2016, 02:03:36 am »
And it only works with sliding windows. Everywhere else in the world where we use hinges on our windows, it's useless.

It's a 120V only product, and they are only shipping to the US and Canada, so that hardly matters.

(Of course we do have some hinged windows in the US too.)

 

Offline MadModder

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2016, 02:44:32 am »
Yes I know you do have some hinges. ;)
But the sliders are historically the far most common, as far as I 've seen on TV at least.  :P
 

Online Red Squirrel

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016, 06:48:10 am »
Much lower profile than my setup.  :P



12,000 BTU though. Go big or go home.
 

Offline edy

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2016, 11:03:30 pm »
My father is an HVAC engineer who designed numerous AC and heat exchangers of various sizes for decades. He is actually going to Philadelphia regularly and is still involved in working at plants making coils as he is now based in New Jersey. He is going to do some research and may even be able to talk to the Noria developers. I'll keep you posted.
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Offline ZeTeX

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2016, 04:13:30 am »
Much lower profile than my setup.  :P



12,000 BTU though. Go big or go home.
http://www.ecomfort.com/Goodman-GFC138033100U-3/p56796.html
Go big or go home.
(Don't mind the electricity bill)
 

Offline edy

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2016, 04:53:11 am »
Hi Folks,

This is the response from my father in New Jersey who is an HVAC engineer and has designed small to multi-ton units for commercial to industrial applications for the last 5 decades. Excuse the spelling mistakes, English is not his first language:

Quote
Hi Edy,
I hope you didn't went ahead wit this investment. I did some reverse engineering, using the picture showing the prototype on an working bench, and concluded, the Evaporator couldn't deliver 5000 BTUH. I talk with others in the industry, and come to same concusion. If you must know, all this "window shekers" are made now to be control remote with an Android Cell Phone. I will send you an Email in afternoon, with the engineering figures based on the observation of the photo. I have to run to my Inspection routs.

As of this post, 32 hours to go.... Crunch time. 3,321 backers pledged $1,280,760 of $250,000 goal. It will almost definitely get funded.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 05:10:32 am by edy »
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Online Red Squirrel

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2016, 10:00:47 am »
Much lower profile than my setup.  :P



12,000 BTU though. Go big or go home.
http://www.ecomfort.com/Goodman-GFC138033100U-3/p56796.html
Go big or go home.
(Don't mind the electricity bill)

That's actually not a bad price for a central unit.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2016, 11:57:50 am »
$1.3M!  :o
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2016, 11:59:29 am »
This is the response from my father in New Jersey who is an HVAC engineer and has designed small to multi-ton units for commercial to industrial applications for the last 5 decades. Excuse the spelling mistakes, English is not his first language:
Quote
Hi Edy,
I hope you didn't went ahead wit this investment. I did some reverse engineering, using the picture showing the prototype on an working bench, and concluded, the Evaporator couldn't deliver 5000 BTUH. I talk with others in the industry, and come to same concusion. If you must know, all this "window shekers" are made now to be control remote with an Android Cell Phone. I will send you an Email in afternoon, with the engineering figures based on the observation of the photo. I have to run to my Inspection routs.

Please do post his calculations!
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2016, 05:39:27 pm »
My guess is it will be underpowered, and maybe too noisy if used on full power.
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Offline ConKbot

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2016, 06:20:38 am »
Tiny little AC unit, tiny evap and condenser both of which will be restrictive to make up for being small, tiny high static pressure fans to deal with the restrictive coils, for 1/2 the cost of my quality 6k btu/hr friedrich unit, and its going to be cheap, quiet, and efficient.

Yeah.  :-DD
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2016, 06:42:09 am »
You must ask yourself. If they can do it for $300, why aren't they around already?
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Lightweight Window AirConditioner - Noria - Too good to be true?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2016, 06:47:42 am »
$1.3M!  :o

This is another Batteroo.  It's a chunk of money, but nowhere enough to actually execute a project of this magnitude. 

And it does seem that they are likely fudging the Btu capabilities of the unit.  It's less than 1/3 the volume and half the weight of a competing compact air conditioner that is 6000 Btu instead of 5000 Btu.  The laws of heat transfer govern the surface area of the coils necessary to dump the waste heat.  Unless they have some new type of refrigeration mechanism that has a much higher delta T, it's unclear how the cut the size and weight so substantially.

Noria size (5000 Btu):  5.8''H x 18.25''W x 15''D = 1588 cu inch

Fridgidaire size (6000 Btu):  18 x 23.6 x 12.2 inches = 5182 cu inch

Worse yet, credible competitors already exist.  This is the 6000 Btu unit for $280:

http://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-Window-Mounted-Profile-Conditioner-Full-Function/dp/B00IYQYN82/ref=sr_1_17?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1464986556&sr=1-17&keywords=window+air+conditioner

« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 06:57:32 am by LabSpokane »
 


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