Author Topic: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects  (Read 201655 times)

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Offline DomesticHacks

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List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #150 on: June 15, 2014, 09:31:46 am »
Not really crowd funded but with preorder: https://www.myvessyl.com

It seems that some marketing guys had a lot of fun.
Interesting projects, tipps and tricks (in German).
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Offline andtfoot

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #151 on: June 15, 2014, 10:04:36 am »
Umbrella USB :
Why not just making a USB A->micro USB cable with only 2 wires (5V + GND) in it ?
It would just be more practical than a big/ugly dongle plugged in the wall...

because your Windows computer will provide only a fraction of the available power without correct device identification, so the umbrella has to identify itself to the operating system, ask for the highest possible power and pass through that power to the phone being charged.
But in this case, it's exactly that. The umbrella intentionally doesn't have any USB power negotiation chips or bias resistors; it is purely disconnects the data lines.
 

Offline rob77

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #152 on: June 15, 2014, 11:35:21 am »
Umbrella USB :
Why not just making a USB A->micro USB cable with only 2 wires (5V + GND) in it ?
It would just be more practical than a big/ugly dongle plugged in the wall...

because your Windows computer will provide only a fraction of the available power without correct device identification, so the umbrella has to identify itself to the operating system, ask for the highest possible power and pass through that power to the phone being charged.
But in this case, it's exactly that. The umbrella intentionally doesn't have any USB power negotiation chips or bias resistors; it is purely disconnects the data lines.

actually it MUST HAVE a chip and it must disconnect the data lines on it's OUTPUT ONLY. otherwise it would be a piece of junk providing only 100mA of charging current.
 

Offline andtfoot

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #153 on: June 15, 2014, 12:24:34 pm »
Umbrella USB :
Why not just making a USB A->micro USB cable with only 2 wires (5V + GND) in it ?
It would just be more practical than a big/ugly dongle plugged in the wall...

because your Windows computer will provide only a fraction of the available power without correct device identification, so the umbrella has to identify itself to the operating system, ask for the highest possible power and pass through that power to the phone being charged.
But in this case, it's exactly that. The umbrella intentionally doesn't have any USB power negotiation chips or bias resistors; it is purely disconnects the data lines.

actually it MUST HAVE a chip and it must disconnect the data lines on it's OUTPUT ONLY. otherwise it would be a piece of junk providing only 100mA of charging current.
Hmm, it looks like I could be wrong here. I had the impression that they didn't want to 'fry USB ports by pulling to much current through them' based on the comments section, but they may be specifically talking about >500mA.
 

Offline djococaud

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #154 on: June 17, 2014, 06:08:40 am »
Quote
Quote from: rob77 on June 14, 2014, 12:08:19 AM
actually it MUST HAVE a chip and it must disconnect the data lines on it's OUTPUT ONLY. otherwise it would be a piece of junk providing only 100mA of charging current.

In this case, THIS is a piece of junk, but in most cases, you will have 500mA (most of computers don't really care and just have a 500mA overcurrent protection on USB ports...)
 

Offline MrAureliusR

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #155 on: June 19, 2014, 03:20:43 pm »
Quote
Quote from: rob77 on June 14, 2014, 12:08:19 AM
actually it MUST HAVE a chip and it must disconnect the data lines on it's OUTPUT ONLY. otherwise it would be a piece of junk providing only 100mA of charging current.

In this case, THIS is a piece of junk, but in most cases, you will have 500mA (most of computers don't really care and just have a 500mA overcurrent protection on USB ports...)

That's actually not true on most modern motherboards. The USB ports typically are 'grouped' in groups of 2 or 4, and have a current limit of 1 or 2A. So yes, technically, you could only draw 500mA per port simultaneously, but you can draw more from a single port if the other ports are not drawing.
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Offline rob77

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #156 on: June 19, 2014, 09:06:08 pm »
Quote
Quote from: rob77 on June 14, 2014, 12:08:19 AM
actually it MUST HAVE a chip and it must disconnect the data lines on it's OUTPUT ONLY. otherwise it would be a piece of junk providing only 100mA of charging current.

In this case, THIS is a piece of junk, but in most cases, you will have 500mA (most of computers don't really care and just have a 500mA overcurrent protection on USB ports...)

That's actually not true on most modern motherboards. The USB ports typically are 'grouped' in groups of 2 or 4, and have a current limit of 1 or 2A. So yes, technically, you could only draw 500mA per port simultaneously, but you can draw more from a single port if the other ports are not drawing.

link to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Charging_ports

it's described there :
standard USB port -> 100mA max without negotiation, 500mA (some boards more) after negotiation with the host (switching to "high power")
charging port -> whatever current (within the limits of the board) without negotiation with the host.

so that umbrella shield must have a chip in order to be able to charge a phone from a standard USB port (it simply must negotiate with the host).
 

Offline tsmith35

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #157 on: June 20, 2014, 12:30:03 am »
Some info I looked up for an Amazon review:

---------------
USB Battery Charging Specification 1.2
Chinese Telecom Standard YD/T 1591-2009
Divider Mode, Compliant with Apple iPod, iPhone (1A), and iPad (2A) Mobile Digital Devices

Non-Apple devices that I know of don't use divider mode. They actually use a 2-step process to determine what kind of port they're connected to. For reference, there are 3 USB charge port-type acronyms used:

SDP (Standard Downstream Port), limited to 500mA (900 mA w/USB3)
CDP (Charging Downstream Port), limited to 1500mA
DCP (Dedicated Charging Port), limited to 1500mA

Here's the process that a device being charged uses to determine how fast it can charge:

The device will output 0.6V on pin 3 (D+) and check the voltage returned on pin 2. If the voltage returned on pin 2 (D-) is less than 0.3V, it thinks it's connected to an SDP. If the returned voltage is between 0.3V and 0.8V, it thinks it's connected to a CDP or DCP.

Next, the device will output 0.6V on pin 2 (D-) and check the voltage returned on pin 3. If the voltage returned on pin 3 (D+) is less than 0.3V, it thinks it's connected to a CDP. If the returned voltage is between 0.3V and 0.8V, it thinks it's connected to a DCP. To qualify as a DCP, there's one additional twist: both the USB Battery Charging Specification 1.2 and the Chinese Telecom Standard YD/T 1591-2009 require that pins 2 & 3 be shorted together (USB BCS 1.2 calls for a maximum impedance of 200 ohms, while the Chinese standard actually calls for a dead short).

A so-called "dumb" charger doesn't do anything fancy: it simply shorts together pins 2 & 3 with a maximum impedance of 200 ohms, leaving the device to figure out that it's connected to a DCP, since shorting pins 2 & 3 together means that 0.6V put on pin 2 will appear on pin 3 and vice-versa. This is how a lot of generic and car chargers work.

So... there is certainly a lot of detail in how devices figure out how much current they can get when plugged in. There is actually more going on than what I included above, but that's enough to figure out that USB charging isn't the same as just plugging in a regular power cord.

For those of you with Apple devices, an Apple device determines what kind of port it's connected to by checking the voltages present on pins 2 & 3 of the USB connector (D- and D+, used for data transfer). If pin 2 is a 2.7V and pin 3 is at 2V, max current is 1000mA (1 Amp). If both pins are at 2V, max current is 500mA. If pin 2 is at 2V and pin 3 is at 2.7V, max current is 2000mA (2 Amps).
---------------

Anyway, let me know if I got anything mixed up. :)
 

Online janoc

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #158 on: June 25, 2014, 06:48:32 pm »
That's actually not true on most modern motherboards. The USB ports typically are 'grouped' in groups of 2 or 4, and have a current limit of 1 or 2A. So yes, technically, you could only draw 500mA per port simultaneously, but you can draw more from a single port if the other ports are not drawing.

And relying on this "feature" is a really bad idea and poor design. Sooner or later some port on some laptop gets fried or the device will be unreliable due to the over-current protection tripping on some mobos.
 

Offline zeb

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #159 on: July 05, 2014, 09:01:43 pm »
Apologies for this being my first post.  I'm a long-time EEVblog watcher and forum lurker but just came across this IndieGoGo campaign that I just felt was worthy of adding to this thread:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/self-sustaining-electric-generator-prototype

I watched all of the 33 minute video and found it unbelievable... utterly unbelievable!
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #160 on: July 05, 2014, 09:27:21 pm »
The worse of it is that the person running the indigogo is not the same as the youtube channel.

Quote
Hi, my name is Brady Reed, I am currently a honors student and junior in a private high school. 

The guy in the video is definitely not a high school junior.
 

Offline zeb

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #161 on: July 05, 2014, 09:34:50 pm »
The worse of it is that the person running the indigogo is not the same as the youtube channel.

Good spot!  I was so overwhelmed by the sales pitch that I didn't notice!
 

Offline Rasz

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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #163 on: July 06, 2014, 06:00:18 pm »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/self-sustaining-electric-generator-prototype

I watched all of the 33 minute video and found it unbelievable... utterly unbelievable!
I tried to watch the video, got dizzy after some minutes, fast forwarded it several times. I didn't understand what he was trying to show, very unstructured and random explanations. All I see is a battery which powers something and is at 12.4 V at the beginning of the video with no load and at 12.2 V at the end of the video. I can't believe why the Youtube comments to the video are so positive :palm:

Of course, the Indiegogo campaign is rubbish, even formal: They have already a working prototype ("output of voltage ranging from 60-80 the entire 30 days"), so why do they need money to build a prototype? He should become a politician with statements at the end like "Our method of problem solving is by having a plan of action and then putting the plan into action.", but he doesn't show the plan, like for what the money is used, or at least a simple diagram of the generator construction.

Indiegogo should not allow such projects, it is bad publicity for the crowdfunding idea and hurts many other good crowdfunding projects.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #164 on: July 06, 2014, 06:22:19 pm »
He should become a politician with statements at the end like "Our method of problem solving is by having a plan of action and then putting the plan into action."

Sounds like a plan.
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Offline jippie

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #165 on: July 06, 2014, 08:23:24 pm »
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 08:26:57 pm by jippie »
 

Offline zeb

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #166 on: July 06, 2014, 08:45:07 pm »
I tried to watch the video, got dizzy after some minutes, fast forwarded it several times. I didn't understand what he was trying to show, very unstructured and random explanations. All I see is a battery which powers something and is at 12.4 V at the beginning of the video with no load and at 12.2 V at the end of the video. I can't believe why the Youtube comments to the video are so positive :palm:

It's completely bizarre.  There are three batteries but no real explanation of what each one is for except one is running the inverter.

Then there is the auxiliary motor - why does it need one?  What does it actually do apart from start the thing which it seemed to do perfectly well without it to start with!

There are huge losses in the system - the drag of the auxiliary motor when it's running, the fact that the auxiliary motor is powered by a bench power supply, which is powered by an inverter...  why not just use a 12V motor?

Then there's the statement about how you should always let it run down on his own, followed by him stopping it once by hand and another time when he removed the rubber band for the auxiliary motor!

And then there's the quantity of completely different switches and them being switched for no apparent reason!

Just noticed that at 5:37 he calls it a 'four-way bridge rectifier' - what's one of those?  Full-wave rectification or bridge rectifier, isn't it?

The 'unbalanced battery bank charging circuit' looks like a bit of terminal strip with a handwritten label!

I will believe it when I see it in a Faraday cage whilst in a glass box, running for 30 days with no external inputs.
 

Offline zeb

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #167 on: July 06, 2014, 08:56:49 pm »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-build-a-planetary-energy-transmitter
Unbelievable that already 700 people fell for the Tesla Tower "test setup".

I believe there is a separate thread on the topic: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/lets-power-the-world-with-a-tesla-coil/

If indeed Tesla did write whatever they've been studying, it was probably a practical joke, published on April 1st  somewhere between 1900 and 1917:-DD
 

Offline Bud

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #168 on: July 07, 2014, 02:43:51 am »
Tesla's name is getting abused these days... There is a show called Teslamania coming to Toronto next week. Wanted to go but did a research and a closer look revealed the whole thing is organized by some doctor who will be pushing for sale his medical gadgets under the cover of Tesla name. Of course the guy said in the interview that he and his wife (and I guess his dog, too) use  that device every day on themselves and that it does miracle.
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Offline Tranan

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2014, 09:27:58 pm »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-build-a-planetary-energy-transmitter

OMG on an hotdag bum. I cant belive this garbage. They are just taking all the cash they can and running away. I am in this moment working on power distribution and that is not a easy thing.  Doing it wireless over the world! pure fantasy!
 

Offline uwezi

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #170 on: July 09, 2014, 09:39:19 pm »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/self-sustaining-electric-generator-prototype

I watched all of the 33 minute video and found it unbelievable... utterly unbelievable!
I tried to watch the video, got dizzy after some minutes

I just tuned in - in parallel to the semi-final game...  :scared:

Isn't it amazing. I have to agree with Einstein about the infinity of human stupidity...  :palm:
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #171 on: July 09, 2014, 10:50:56 pm »
I tried to watch the video, got dizzy after some minutes, fast forwarded it several times. I didn't understand what he was trying to show, very unstructured and random explanations. All I see is a battery which powers something and is at 12.4 V at the beginning of the video with no load and at 12.2 V at the end of the video. I can't believe why the Youtube comments to the video are so positive :palm:

It's completely bizarre.  There are three batteries but no real explanation of what each one is for except one is running the inverter.

Then there is the auxiliary motor - why does it need one?  What does it actually do apart from start the thing which it seemed to do perfectly well without it to start with!

There are huge losses in the system - the drag of the auxiliary motor when it's running, the fact that the auxiliary motor is powered by a bench power supply, which is powered by an inverter...  why not just use a 12V motor?

Then there's the statement about how you should always let it run down on his own, followed by him stopping it once by hand and another time when he removed the rubber band for the auxiliary motor!

And then there's the quantity of completely different switches and them being switched for no apparent reason!

Just noticed that at 5:37 he calls it a 'four-way bridge rectifier' - what's one of those?  Full-wave rectification or bridge rectifier, isn't it?

The 'unbalanced battery bank charging circuit' looks like a bit of terminal strip with a handwritten label!

I will believe it when I see it in a Faraday cage whilst in a glass box, running for 30 days with no external inputs.

I don't know whats going on?!?

He has three batteries, one one of which appears to be connected to the inverter, which, of course, discharges when the inverter is on...

The other two seem to be connected to nothing, as they don't react to the load being applied...

His "star of David?" motor is apparently outputting 60volts.... where does this go? lol
 

Offline tsmith35

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #172 on: July 11, 2014, 12:14:18 am »
Probably the dodgiest of the dodgy: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

Yes, he's making potato salad, but he hasn't even decided which kind he will make yet. Given the variety of potato salad recipes out there, contributors really have no idea what to expect. And yet, he's being funded. ;D
 

Offline rob77

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #173 on: July 11, 2014, 01:04:53 am »
Probably the dodgiest of the dodgy: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

Yes, he's making potato salad, but he hasn't even decided which kind he will make yet. Given the variety of potato salad recipes out there, contributors really have no idea what to expect. And yet, he's being funded. ;D

i think that  was intended to be a  fun project ;) he's goal was only $10 !   that's definitely not a scam , definitely looks like "let's make some fun dude" and apparently it went viral :D i guess the guy will make a hell of a party ;)
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #174 on: July 11, 2014, 04:58:41 am »
Probably the dodgiest of the dodgy: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

Yes, he's making potato salad, but he hasn't even decided which kind he will make yet. Given the variety of potato salad recipes out there, contributors really have no idea what to expect. And yet, he's being funded. ;D

Well, he was honest up-front. E.g. telling potential sponsors he hasn't even decided what kind. I think he will have a fulfillment problem, sending a thousand or more bites of potato salad to backers. Uhm, a thousand bites of rotting potato salad in the mail ... Is that even legal? Or 500 backers each allowed to chose one ingredient. That potato salad will taste shit. Or a few hundred backers supposed to join him in the kitchen.

If he is clever he will cancel the campaign before the official deadline, say sorry and thanks for the fun, and give the people the money back.
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