Author Topic: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects  (Read 202178 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #175 on: July 11, 2014, 05:48:41 am »
but mainly it's a windows problem - most of the drivers (all of them ?  :-//) allow the 100mA (low power) without identification on windows. on linux systems (with the same hardware) the drivers usually allows you to draw 500mA without identification. all of the controllers have power management, and it's the job of the driver (OS specific) to setup the controller and and control the power schemes.

But the hardware controller for a 500mA capable port usually does not physically limit the current to 100mA. I have never found a single one that does that. So any device is free to ignore any and all standards for negotiation and simply draw 500mA on 500mA capable port. The "negotiation" part is simply a software thing so that the O/S can keep track of total power max consumption on a port.
For those who don't believe this, go stick a suitable resistor on your USB port you'll see.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #176 on: July 11, 2014, 06:09:24 am »
But the hardware controller for a 500mA capable port usually does not physically limit the current to 100mA. I have never found a single one that does that.
You have. In one of your old videos you complained that an oscilloscope's USB host port didn't deliver enough current.

The fault, of course, was not the port, but the device not properly asking for more current.

Quote
For those who don't believe this, go stick a suitable resistor on your USB port you'll see.

I recommend eBay auction: #131214096046 or a similar gadget to measure the voltage and current.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #177 on: July 11, 2014, 06:32:47 am »
But the hardware controller for a 500mA capable port usually does not physically limit the current to 100mA. I have never found a single one that does that.
You have. In one of your old videos you complained that an oscilloscope's USB host port didn't deliver enough current.

No. That was a dev board that needed >500mA. Had nothing to do with any 100mA limit.

Quote
The fault, of course, was not the port, but the device not properly asking for more current.

No.
The fault was me not reading the instructions and not using the supplied USB doubler cable and plugging the device into a two USB ports to give >500mA capability.
 

Offline andtfoot

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #178 on: July 11, 2014, 09:50:08 am »
This one looks a bit dodgy to me:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mikey-usb-connector-charger-cable-booster-battery-bluetooth-locator-tools
Having flash memory, bluetooth locating, and a battery to run a phone for 3 hours in that case seems to be... unrealistic (especially once you factor in the fold-away USB connectors and the support structure needed for the metal thingie).
Also, I don't know about 'travel safe'...  :-\
 

Offline rob77

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #179 on: July 11, 2014, 10:01:38 am »
This one looks a bit dodgy to me:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mikey-usb-connector-charger-cable-booster-battery-bluetooth-locator-tools
Having flash memory, bluetooth locating, and a battery to run a phone for 3 hours in that case seems to be... unrealistic (especially once you factor in the fold-away USB connectors and the support structure needed for the metal thingie).
Also, I don't know about 'travel safe'...  :-\

agree - but except the phone charger it's pretty doable and could be handy as well ;) i doubt they could fit a battery bigger than 100-150 mAh (single cell). another point is the claimed 3 hours for the phone - if they promise 3hrs of standby for the phone... well... actually...  the 100mAh might be enough for that.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #180 on: July 11, 2014, 11:47:19 pm »
but mainly it's a windows problem - most of the drivers (all of them ?  :-//) allow the 100mA (low power) without identification on windows. on linux systems (with the same hardware) the drivers usually allows you to draw 500mA without identification. all of the controllers have power management, and it's the job of the driver (OS specific) to setup the controller and and control the power schemes.

But the hardware controller for a 500mA capable port usually does not physically limit the current to 100mA. I have never found a single one that does that. So any device is free to ignore any and all standards for negotiation and simply draw 500mA on 500mA capable port. The "negotiation" part is simply a software thing so that the O/S can keep track of total power max consumption on a port.
For those who don't believe this, go stick a suitable resistor on your USB port you'll see.

A proper implementation doesn't limit the current to 100 mA. Nor does it limit the current to whatever value is specified in the device enumeration (which is how the device tells the host that it's a "high-power" guy). Rather, if the power-control hardware in the hub (either in the computer or external) detects an overcurrent condition, it'll shut down that port. Hopefully, the operating system will throw up a warning about exceeding current limits.

I ran into this doing a bus-powered USB audio project. The device enumeration indicated that it used all of the 500 mA available after enumeration. The device did things the right way: it used power switching to stage power bring-up. Before enumeration, all of the analog power rails were disabled so current draw was much less than the allowed 100 mA. After enumeration, the processor would enable the analog power rail and the device would be fully functional. The product has two mic preamps with available individually-switched phantom power, which the user could enable as needed.

I built up the first prototype, it all worked and passed audio. Then I switched on the phantom, and HELLO! OS X threw up a "USB device uses too much power!" warning dialog and shut off the port. But what was actually interesting is that Windows XP (this was awhile ago) on a standard Dell box also detected the overcurrent condition and shut off the port (which is the correct response), BUT neglected to throw up the overcurrent warning. The over-current condition was logged somewhere; I don't remember how I found the log.

(The problem was that I had a largish filter cap hanging on the phantom supply; the inrush to that cap was sufficient to trip the overcurrent sensor in the hub. I removed the cap and there was no impact on noise performance and the power issue went away.)

I never did a test to see what would happen if I had the device enumerate indicating that it needed less than 100 mA and then turn on the analog rails. I should do that ...

-a
 

Offline Hardcorefs

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #181 on: July 12, 2014, 08:01:00 am »
But the hardware controller for a 500mA capable port usually does not physically limit the current to 100mA. I have never found a single one that does that.
You have. In one of your old videos you complained that an oscilloscope's USB host port didn't deliver enough current.

No. That was a dev board that needed >500mA. Had nothing to do with any 100mA limit.

Quote
The fault, of course, was not the port, but the device not properly asking for more current.

No.
The fault was me not reading the instructions and not using the supplied USB doubler cable and plugging the device into a two USB ports to give >500mA capability.


One other issue frequently overlooked , is that many of the Cheap USB cables from China are actually just cellophane or plastic sheeting coated in an aluminum film, these are interwoven to provide the internal cables, rather than the more expensive copper.
In some cases you can be dropping over 0v5 of power on a 0.5-1.0m cable, in many cases it is enough to take the USB device WAY out of spec.

 

Offline nickds1

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #182 on: July 23, 2014, 08:37:27 am »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/self-sustaining-electric-generator-prototype

I watched all of the 33 minute video and found it unbelievable... utterly unbelievable!

It looks very like a Bedini Motor, which some highly misguided types believe is an over-unity device. Sigh.

See http://bedinimotors.blogspot.co.uk/

Nick
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #183 on: July 23, 2014, 09:17:17 am »
It looks very like a Bedini Motor, which some highly misguided types believe is an over-unity device. Sigh.

See http://bedinimotors.blogspot.co.uk/
But this website is a bit esoteric, too. Quote: "method of capturing radiant energy and get the world to understand that it is the high potential, almost currentless pulses that the different variations of energizer put out, that causes what happens within the charged batteries.". So they re-invented a pulse charger, probably of very bad quality because of the mechanical setup, described it as some mysterious "radiant energy capturing" device and sell it for only $4200. Seems legit.
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Offline dumle29

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #184 on: July 29, 2014, 04:01:52 am »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/juicer-battery-the-best-smartphone-battery-ever--3

Fiber optic usb 3.1 cable for faster charging. Oh and that fiber optic cable is also more durable and more bendable than regular cables. Oh wait the main product is their amazing battery -.-

I'm surprised they got the usb 3.1 power specs right.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #185 on: July 29, 2014, 07:55:16 am »
It looks very like a Bedini Motor, which some highly misguided types believe is an over-unity device. Sigh.

See http://bedinimotors.blogspot.co.uk/
But this website is a bit esoteric, too. Quote: "method of capturing radiant energy and get the world to understand that it is the high potential, almost currentless pulses that the different variations of energizer put out, that causes what happens within the charged batteries.". So they re-invented a pulse charger, probably of very bad quality because of the mechanical setup, described it as some mysterious "radiant energy capturing" device and sell it for only $4200. Seems legit.
You call it "a bit esoteric", I would simply classify that as a "total bullshit"  :-DD
 

Offline rob77

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #186 on: July 29, 2014, 08:57:56 am »
You call it "a bit esoteric", I would simply classify that as a "total bullshit"  :-DD

"a bit esoteric" is a politically correct description of "total bullshit" ;) we who work for big corporations know how important is to use politically correct words :D
 

Offline janoc

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #187 on: July 29, 2014, 10:37:04 pm »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/juicer-battery-the-best-smartphone-battery-ever--3

Fiber optic usb 3.1 cable for faster charging. Oh and that fiber optic cable is also more durable and more bendable than regular cables. Oh wait the main product is their amazing battery -.-

I'm surprised they got the usb 3.1 power specs right.

Ehm, why does a *battery* need a USB 3.1 interface? And with fiber optic cable!? (Which nothing supports, btw ...)

Wtf ...  :palm:

 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #188 on: July 30, 2014, 11:48:32 am »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/juicer-battery-the-best-smartphone-battery-ever--3

Fiber optic usb 3.1 cable for faster charging. Oh and that fiber optic cable is also more durable and more bendable than regular cables. Oh wait the main product is their amazing battery -.-
It's interesting that you can identify most scams just by their inconsistencies. First "power density that is 1900 times greater than other lithium ion batteries". Later "The world's highest capacity battery @ 13440mAh. More than 4 times than the original capacity & slimmer than other extended battery". And then "this would make our battery the best out there allowing it to last an estimated 25-70 percent longer than your generic smart phone battery". But then in the FAQs: "We estimate up to 50-75 percent increase to your phones battery power compared with the stock battery."

But forget the battery, I want the solar cells! Needs one hour to charge in the light. Maximum sun power is 1120 W/m^2. Their battery is 13440 mAh. The Galaxy S4 size is 137 mm x 70 mm = 0.00959 m^2. So sun power to their aluminum frame is 11 W max. Ignoring the loss when charging a battery, they invented a solar cell with at least 120 % efficiency. Nice, another over unity perpetuum mobile. And they defeated mathematics with nanotechnology, because it works at any angle :)

And of course, nobody is named "Vandal Schnizel" in Germany. "Vandal" is an insect repellent, and "Schnizel" is wrongly spelled Schnitzel.
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Offline janoc

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #189 on: July 31, 2014, 01:32:38 pm »
It's interesting that you can identify most scams just by their inconsistencies.

Fortunately, the scammers are usually not the smartest people, otherwise they could likely do something else for living ... I had my  :bullshit: detector going off scale the moment he started to talk about the fiber optics USB cables which are completely irrelevant for charging.

But forget the battery, I want the solar cells! Needs one hour to charge in the light. Maximum sun power is 1120 W/m^2. Their battery is 13440 mAh. The Galaxy S4 size is 137 mm x 70 mm = 0.00959 m^2. So sun power to their aluminum frame is 11 W max. Ignoring the loss when charging a battery, they invented a solar cell with at least 120 % efficiency. Nice, another over unity perpetuum mobile. And they defeated mathematics with nanotechnology, because it works at any angle :)

Good catch

And of course, nobody is named "Vandal Schnizel" in Germany. "Vandal" is an insect repellent, and "Schnizel" is wrongly spelled Schnitzel.

Well, I wouldn't underestimate the creativity of someone's parents (or just bad luck - you don't get to pick your name) when naming their offspring. I had to work with a lady with a last name "Titsworth" and another time my contact at a publisher was "Sharon Stone". So "Vandal Schnizel" could be possible :-p

 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #190 on: August 02, 2014, 05:44:46 pm »
Clicking on the 'CEO' profile, it comes out that he has 3 campaigns running, all for this Juicer Battery, closing at one week of distance from each other, the later ones with higher goals. Delivery times for each of the campaigns varies.
https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/8096989/campaigns

:wtf:
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #191 on: August 02, 2014, 06:24:20 pm »
Clicking on the 'CEO' profile, it comes out that he has 3 campaigns running, all for this Juicer Battery, closing at one week of distance from each other, the later ones with higher goals. Delivery times for each of the campaigns varies.
https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/8096989/campaigns
And one campaign has flexible funding. I guess he figured that's the way to get at least some money from this scam, if there are not enough fools who funds it. I reported it to Indiegogo.
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Offline andtfoot

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #192 on: August 03, 2014, 06:14:30 am »
Not to mention the comments seem to be shills or fake accounts or something.

e.g.
Quote
I was skeptical about donating for the early bird, but im glad I did. With one day shipping i received the battery the next day, and it works just as expected for my galaxy S5. I have up to a week of battery life, THIS PRODUCT IS AMAZING.
 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #193 on: August 03, 2014, 02:51:40 pm »
Clicking on the 'CEO' profile, it comes out that he has 3 campaigns running, all for this Juicer Battery, closing at one week of distance from each other, the later ones with higher goals. Delivery times for each of the campaigns varies.
https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/8096989/campaigns
And one campaign has flexible funding. I guess he figured that's the way to get at least some money from this scam, if there are not enough fools who funds it. I reported it to Indiegogo.

All 3 are flex funding.. and if you look at the naming in the URL, he tried at least one more.  My guess is that it's an attempt to get around IGG's fee structure for when goals are not met. By using multiple campaigns with lower goals [of his overall higher goal] assuming some of them are met, only a smaller portion of the overall total is hit with the higher fee structure for mt reaching the target.  This of course also works against him, by diluting the funds he is getting, possibly making it that none of his targets are met. Given that I don't see much take up on any, I don't think this guy is going to walk away with much.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #194 on: August 26, 2014, 08:13:13 pm »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/252587878/the-worlds-smallest-tiny-breadboard-power-supply-u

A resistor/led to show there is power, two pins to the breadboard, pcb connector & case $23. No case $20, kit form no case $16

Of course it probably will fail after a 100 inserts and if you wiggle the cable it might loose power if the dimensions are not just right.

Plus I have no clue why they are calling it a power supply.... well... it does supply power to the breadboard I guess  :-//

And of course they will get funded.

At least it's free shipping worldwide from Japan.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #195 on: August 27, 2014, 02:19:23 am »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/252587878/the-worlds-smallest-tiny-breadboard-power-supply-u

A resistor/led to show there is power, two pins to the breadboard, pcb connector & case $23. No case $20, kit form no case $16
They sell the kit with no case already in their shop, for $4.90:
http://frentrep.com/shop/breadboardmaniac/bbm-muc-k.html
When I add it to the cart, shipping costs are $16.66 to Germany, so it's a bargain for $16 free shipping at kickstarter :)
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Offline janoc

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #196 on: August 27, 2014, 08:02:08 am »
They sell the kit with no case already in their shop, for $4.90:
http://frentrep.com/shop/breadboardmaniac/bbm-muc-k.html
When I add it to the cart, shipping costs are $16.66 to Germany, so it's a bargain for $16 free shipping at kickstarter :)

You could probably whip the same thing up in a 10 minutes in Eagle or whatever. 3 boards of that size would cost about 2-3 EUR to Europe from OSHPark (shipping included), the parts maybe 1EUR and soldering takes 2 minutes ...

Certainly more reasonable than paying almost $17 shipping for a $5 kit ...

However, I would rather make it a bit larger so that I could have at least two pins for each rail for more sturdiness. Breadboarding things can be sufficient pain even without having to fight dodgy connectors already.
 

Offline sunnyhighway

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #197 on: August 27, 2014, 09:52:35 am »
However, I would rather make it a bit larger so that I could have at least two pins for each rail for more sturdiness. Breadboarding things can be sufficient pain even without having to fight dodgy connectors already.

Did just that. Had an unused USB extension cable lying around where I made it for.

BOM:
1 Leftover piece of prototype board.
2 Leftover 2 pin pin-headers.
1 Cutout from a blister package to make the pcb thicker.

Works like a charm and the USB connector won't fall off.
A breadboard with a transformer can dangle from the USB cable without coming loose.

 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #198 on: August 27, 2014, 02:15:58 pm »
Did just that. Had an unused USB extension cable lying around where I made it for.

BOM:
1 Leftover piece of prototype board.
2 Leftover 2 pin pin-headers.
1 Cutout from a blister package to make the pcb thicker.
But no LED. If you combine "LED" and "USB", you could sell it for a lot of money:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thingm/blink1-the-usb-rgb-led
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Online dunkemhigh

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #199 on: August 27, 2014, 03:14:45 pm »
To be fair, that's a little bit more than a USB plug and LED soldered together :)

Not to mention that it's free as well if you can be arsed to build your own.

Edit: In fact, I'm annoyed that I missed that! I have an application that is pretty much tailor made for this Blink(1)  - no, Blink(1) is ideal for my application, I mean.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 03:18:05 pm by dunkemhigh »
 


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