Author Topic: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects  (Read 201596 times)

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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #300 on: May 28, 2015, 11:37:12 am »
Quote
or better in some other way

Ever gone tap-dancing on your roof panels? I think the 'some better way' is just tapping (sorry!) into a currently unused resource that is basically there for the taking. The fallacy is in thinking this is instead of all the existing or other things, but it is as well so not displacing anything, not competing, etc.

No, the problem is it can't produce enough energy to make up for it's cost in energy.

And it's not an unused resource there for the taking. To get more energy out of people you have to put more energy in. The human digestive system is hardly efficient. Producing and transporting food is energy intensive. It takes energy to produce, transport, maintain, and then dispose or replace these things. When they can get at most 7wh per day per person you're just wasting energy to feel like you're been green when the reality is the complete opposite.
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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #301 on: June 01, 2015, 09:50:22 am »
Yeah, while "Gizmag" is just another dodgy internet source, and the USPTO have long ago shown that they are unable to detect a "Perpetual Motion Machine" when they see one.
I don't think it is the fault of USPTO. This page says: "United States patent laws do not require you to have a prototype in order to apply for a patent". https://www.indiegogo.com doesn't require a prototype either. The conclusion is obvious :)
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #302 on: June 01, 2015, 01:09:18 pm »
Here's a TED talk by the founder. At least from his presentation it seems like a solution in search of a problem 
:palm: next development step: turn gates everywhere on every street with a generator attached  :D .
 


Offline meeder

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #304 on: August 04, 2015, 09:36:52 am »
More wireless energy bullshit, only 7 days left ;)
Take a look at his circuitboard, looks like he scavenged a board out of some ancient device and jammed it in the box.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitenergy-smart-battery#/story

The inventor is also a naturopath which in itself is enough to get my alarm bells going BTW... ;)
 

Offline meeder

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #305 on: August 04, 2015, 09:40:05 am »
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #306 on: August 04, 2015, 12:12:21 pm »
More wireless energy bullshit, only 7 days left ;)
Take a look at his circuitboard, looks like he scavenged a board out of some ancient device and jammed it in the box.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitenergy-smart-battery#/story

The inventor is also a naturopath which in itself is enough to get my alarm bells going BTW... ;)

I donated &A0 to him that I found spare in an old EPROM, but then I erased the EPROM and it was suddenly full of &FF again!! Free energy!! (8x 256bits to be exact) .Now how do I get all these bits into my phone battery??

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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #307 on: August 04, 2015, 01:13:07 pm »
Information can be converted to energy, see this article. The problem is the energy requirement of Maxwell's demon, but still a neat experiment. Of course, the Indiegogo is bullshit, but some parts are funny, like when they write "Eventually after experimenting with the (GAN) transistors, we were able to produce up to 1000 volts.  This was enough voltage to recharge conventional mobile device batteries. "
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Offline McBryce

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #308 on: August 04, 2015, 07:42:35 pm »
Interesting read, but not what our Indiegogo expert was waffling on about.

1000V !! I didn't realise I'd need a High Voltage phone for it to work!

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Offline DarkStar

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #309 on: August 10, 2015, 11:27:39 pm »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275963200/sunport-plug-into-solar-power-no-panels-required

Looking at the comments, people believe somehow that they'll magically get solar power with this plug adapter... What a scam!
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Offline Rasz

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #310 on: August 10, 2015, 11:32:13 pm »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275963200/sunport-plug-into-solar-power-no-panels-required

Looking at the comments, people believe somehow that they'll magically get solar power with this plug adapter... What a scam!

hehe, its not a hardware scam tho, its the same type of scam TESLA does, this KS is for a non profit that will spend your money buying up renevable credits so you can sleep better :)
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Offline codeboy2k

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #311 on: August 11, 2015, 03:08:01 am »
Re: SunPort Solar Plug

The only one "making money" here is the non-profit ... those two sound like they don't fit well together "making money" and "non-profit", but non-profit is just a tax break, if they get any donations or any income from t-shirt sales or whatever else, and they have expenses (salaries, building rent, marketing, etc).. then they will have an income or a loss and they just don't pay federal taxes on that income (or in some countries may have reduced taxes).

What I see these guys doing is breaking up the S-RECS into tiny chunks and selling them at a premium, so they will be making money on the resale of S-RECs to the consumers (who think they are doing something good). What the consumer is actually doing is donating $3-$5 per month (let's say) to a charity that wants to build more solar (so they can buy more S-RECs to sell back to you for your monthly donation !)
 

Offline meeder

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #312 on: August 11, 2015, 06:10:31 am »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275963200/sunport-plug-into-solar-power-no-panels-required

Looking at the comments, people believe somehow that they'll magically get solar power with this plug adapter... What a scam!

hehe, its not a hardware scam tho, its the same type of scam TESLA does, this KS is for a non profit that will spend your money buying up renevable credits so you can sleep better :)

Exactly, the electricity itself will still come from a coal powered plant ;)
 

Online MagicSmoker

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #313 on: August 11, 2015, 12:36:03 pm »
...Exactly, the electricity itself will still come from a coal powered plant ;)

Yes, but...

The average thermal efficiency of an internal combustion engine in a vehicle is 15-20%, whereas the average thermal efficiency of a coal-fired power plant is 33-40% and combined cycle natural gas power plants have reached a thermal efficiency of 60%.

Furthermore, it is possible to use much more effective pollution reducing technologies on a large fossil fuel power plant than it is on a vehicle, so that there may be a net reduction in pollution over and above that predicted by the difference in efficiency alone even when the fuel itself is considerably more dirty (e.g. - coal vs. gasoline). For example, it's totally impractical (and likely ineffective, anyway) to put an electrostatic precipitator in the tailpipe of a vehicle but relatively trivial to put one in the tall vertical smokestack of a power plant.

 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #314 on: August 11, 2015, 02:32:42 pm »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275963200/sunport-plug-into-solar-power-no-panels-required

Looking at the comments, people believe somehow that they'll magically get solar power with this plug adapter... What a scam!
So what is it? An overpriced power meter with bluetooth, and then you have to pay twice for the energy you use? I don't know how the energy markets is regulated in other countries, but in Germany you can order from any supplier of electric energy, regardless which company provides the physical energy, and there are some solar power companies. Then you have to pay only once for the solar power. Of course, works only for your house or flat, but if you are in a hotel and use your laptop, the energy is only a fraction compared to what you need at home.
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Offline gildasd

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #315 on: August 11, 2015, 07:50:41 pm »
...Exactly, the electricity itself will still come from a coal powered plant ;)

Yes, but...

The average thermal efficiency of an internal combustion engine in a vehicle is 15-20%, whereas the average thermal efficiency of a coal-fired power plant is 33-40% and combined cycle natural gas power plants have reached a thermal efficiency of 60%.

Furthermore, it is possible to use much more effective pollution reducing technologies on a large fossil fuel power plant than it is on a vehicle, so that there may be a net reduction in pollution over and above that predicted by the difference in efficiency alone even when the fuel itself is considerably more dirty (e.g. - coal vs. gasoline). For example, it's totally impractical (and likely ineffective, anyway) to put an electrostatic precipitator in the tailpipe of a vehicle but relatively trivial to put one in the tall vertical smokestack of a power plant.
Not forgetting that a plant can use dust scrubbers that use curtains of water and the associated filtering...
Still the worst kind of generation around, but much better than a car engine.
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Offline mos6502

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #316 on: September 15, 2015, 02:48:01 am »
More wireless energy bullshit, only 7 days left ;)
Take a look at his circuitboard, looks like he scavenged a board out of some ancient device and jammed it in the box.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitenergy-smart-battery#/story

The inventor is also a naturopath which in itself is enough to get my alarm bells going BTW... ;)

LOL! Are you freaking kidding me?



This is their "Quantum Energy Generator"! They just cut up a PCB out of an old alarm clock or something and stuffed in a homemade box!  :palm:
for(;;);
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #317 on: September 15, 2015, 03:43:53 am »
Wow. That is just breath-takingly absurd.
In fact, it is so ridiculous that in two months, they raised only $10 USD, and that was probably one of the principals testing the page to see if it was really live.

It closed with the $10. Probably less than it cost them to put it online. 
It somewhat restores my faith in the general public to spot a flaming con when they see one.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 03:45:24 am by Richard Crowley »
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #318 on: September 15, 2015, 09:06:48 pm »
More good news, some court in the USA ordered money restitution for a delayed kickstarter project, this will be the beginning of the end for the not serious "dodgy" projects.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/11/9310945/kickstarter-court-victory-attorney-general-washington-asylum-playing-cards
 

Offline sunnyhighway

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #319 on: September 16, 2015, 05:01:04 am »
More good news, some court in the USA ordered money restitution for a delayed kickstarter project, this will be the beginning of the end for the not serious "dodgy" projects.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/11/9310945/kickstarter-court-victory-attorney-general-washington-asylum-playing-cards

Not sure if all the motivations of the judge are sound.

I have a lot of trouble understanding this part of the ruling:
Quote
Additionally, Polchlopek and Altius Management must pay $31,000 in civil penalties for violating the state Consumer Protection Act — $1,000 per backer.

The backers are investors, not consumers...
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #320 on: September 16, 2015, 05:47:57 am »
The backers are investors, not consumers...
Well, investors would be able to make a profit. Backers only have the chance to get the product for a "reduced" price and some overpriced perks.
Actually, the price reduction is also not existant most of the time. In the end, backing makes only sense to support a project which would not make it without backing or to get a product which is not available elsewhere.
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Offline matseng

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #321 on: September 16, 2015, 06:36:40 am »
Right.
Quote
Invest - to put money to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.
This is clearly not happening in crowd sourcing.   The closest action is actually a purchase. People (pre)pay money with the promise to receive some goods of some kind.  Just as any mail order, but with the difference that the products on KS/IGG doesn't exist yet, but it's still a purchase.
 

Offline sunnyhighway

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #322 on: September 16, 2015, 07:39:51 pm »
The backers are investors, not consumers...
Well, investors would be able to make a profit. Backers only have the chance to get the product for a "reduced" price and some overpriced perks.
Actually, the price reduction is also not existant most of the time. In the end, backing makes only sense to support a project which would not make it without backing or to get a product which is not available elsewhere.

You convinced me that backers aren not investors.
But backers are not consumers either.
 
For all I know a backer could also be an organisation that is willing to support a good project the creator of the Kickstarter wants to do.
But "supporter" is not the correct term either, because supporting something does not need to involve giving money.

Right.
Quote
Invest - to put money to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.
This is clearly not happening in crowd sourcing.   The closest action is actually a purchase. People (pre)pay money with the promise to receive some goods of some kind.  Just as any mail order, but with the difference that the products on KS/IGG doesn't exist yet, but it's still a purchase.

Your argument seem to fail here because the backer doesn't have to choose a perk that involves receiving a physical item (or even a service for that matter).
In that case you often get the right get your name on a website or some poster. Sometimes you only get the right to read the "for backers only" updates.
Wouldn't call that purchasing.

You can opt to receive some perk when you put in the minimum amount of money for that type of perk
The perk does doe not even have to be a tangible thing or service. You could be in for that "good feeling" that gives you.
There is no obligation to claim that perk. In that case I would call it a donation.

I also have a lot of trouble to see where buying fits in with the following possibilities you could have as a backer.
 - Have some saying in the properties of the product
 - Motivating the creator to change their approach or product.
 - Having the option to have your name listed as a backer on their website.
 - etc. etc.

I think the term sponsor would be more appropriate. You actually sponsoring the creator to pursue their project. I used the word pursue, because there is no guarantee their project will be finalized as predicted.
 

Offline manoumanou

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #323 on: September 24, 2015, 01:43:55 pm »
Can someone check this project : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/janulus/trinity-portable-wind-turbine-power-station

It's a portable wind turbine... I have no doubt it would generate electricity but in how much time ? There is no specification of how much it generate under what conditions and I have hard time visualizing what a 2 m/s wind is ?

Thanks !  :P
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: List of Dodgy Crowd Source Funded Projects
« Reply #324 on: September 24, 2015, 02:09:42 pm »
2m/s is about 4mph, aka a fast walk.

The Trinity 50 is rated at 50W, or 7.5Ah (or 7.5mAh - it's not clear if they use European thousand separators or the proper English ones). The graph indicates that 100% is generated at about 6.5m/s and at 2m/s you'd be lucky to see 5% of capacity. Charging a modern phone in 2m/s wind is going to take a while!

OTOH, you don't have to watch it - leave it charging all day and it doesn't matter what rate it took so long as the built-in battery has enough to charge your phone when you plug it in.
 


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