Author Topic: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?  (Read 377512 times)

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Offline mrflibble

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1100 on: August 31, 2014, 02:46:07 am »
Just read that interview. So basically no new information. Would be fun if someone in the area would check out that International Manufacturing Technology Show to see if they just happen to be there.

It is very sad that John has turned out to be total nightmare for backers, but in my Office we would describe him as a 'NEWARK' (rearrange the letters to reveal an appropriate term !)

Mmmh ... http://bit.ly/1qepPum
 

Offline callipso

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1101 on: August 31, 2014, 03:11:36 am »
I'm afraid that if they showed up, someone would break their noses...

Maybe that's why they don't want backers to know where they are supposed to be...  :D
I wonder... **BOOM
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1102 on: August 31, 2014, 03:19:43 am »
Have you seen Mike's Flir One video? There is very little 'electronics' in it. The sensor appears to use a standard phone camera socket. I would not be surprised if it is pin compatible.
And their MSRP price of $400 is even a bit higher than what the Flir One costs ($350, see here). If they buy it in bulk, they could probably just sell it as their product and make some profit :-DD

BTW: An "interesting" application for such a camera is pin code theft. Fortunately it is easy to defend such an attack, as shown in the video at the end, touching more keys than you press.
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Offline MattSR

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1103 on: August 31, 2014, 10:06:26 am »

Have you seen Mike's Flir One video?

Nope, where is it?
 

Offline rs20

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1104 on: August 31, 2014, 10:10:40 am »

Have you seen Mike's Flir One video?

Nope, where is it?

Literally the first hit when Googling "Mike's Flir One video" :P

 

Offline fcb

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1105 on: September 01, 2014, 04:27:59 am »
It is very sad that John has turned out to be total nightmare for backers, but in my Office we would describe him as a 'NEWARK' (rearrange the letters to reveal an appropriate term !)
It took me a few seconds to realise you weren't talking about Farnell's 'other' brand..
 

Offline janekm

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1106 on: September 01, 2014, 09:21:58 am »
A problem is that as resolution increases, the cost of the lens needed to make use of it also rises. The lens in the Lepton is only about 3mm dia - I don't know if it's germanium or chalcogenide, but either way there's not much of it.

I was actually wondering whether it might be silicon... In one of the articles about the price reduction they talk about wafer processing techniques to get the price of the lenses down. Though I suppose no reason why that couldn't be a wafer of germanium / chalcogenide...
 

Offline janekm

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1107 on: September 01, 2014, 09:30:43 am »
Being at a show and having production ready prototypes for public to play with are two different things.

Have you seen Mike's Flir One video? There is very little 'electronics' in it. The sensor appears to use a standard phone camera socket. I would not be surprised if it is pin compatible.

well... In a sense there is a whole lot of electronics in there ;) There's the two camera modules, the rather complex ASIC/FPGA in the Flir sensor module, a SoC running Linux!, the crypto chip for authentication to the iPhone... Rather overkill of course, as Mike demonstrated ;)
 

Offline callipso

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1108 on: September 04, 2014, 05:01:51 am »
I just have to ask--

Mike, was that YOUR iPhone? Are you in the apple herd?
I wonder... **BOOM
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1109 on: September 04, 2014, 06:09:59 am »
I just have to ask--

Mike, was that YOUR iPhone? Are you in the apple herd?
Yes, and no.
 Bought  on Ebay as faulty specifically to run the F1, non activated PAYG SIM in it  - don't even know if it works as a phone
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 06:12:45 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1110 on: September 04, 2014, 06:12:23 am »
I just have to ask--

Mike, was that YOUR iPhone? Are you in the apple herd?
Yes but bought (Ebay as faulty)  specifically to run the F1, non activated PAYG SIM in it  - don't even know if it works as a phone

 :phew:
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline callipso

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1111 on: September 05, 2014, 12:28:41 am »
I just have to ask--

Mike, was that YOUR iPhone? Are you in the apple herd?
Yes but bought (Ebay as faulty)  specifically to run the F1, non activated PAYG SIM in it  - don't even know if it works as a phone

 :phew:


+1 :-+
I wonder... **BOOM
 

Offline kentuckyEE

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1112 on: September 06, 2014, 01:23:19 am »
I will be at IMTS in Chicago Tuesday through Thursday. If I see Mu at any booth, I will certainly post pictures and an account. If this is the convention John is hinting at (and assuming it isn't a bluff),  Mu won't be a standalone booth.  Someone else will be showing it as part of their "toolset." Any guesses?

Here is the exhibitor search:
http://www.imts.com/visitor/exdir/
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1113 on: September 10, 2014, 02:34:21 am »
Today is the day?

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline sunnyhighway

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1114 on: September 10, 2014, 03:59:16 am »
Today is the day?

Of-course he won't show up at the IMTS. Not important enough.

I'm sure he will be introduced by Tim Cook at the Apple Live Special Event within a couple of minutes.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1115 on: September 10, 2014, 04:20:06 am »
I will be at IMTS in Chicago Tuesday through Thursday. If I see Mu at any booth, I will certainly post pictures and an account. If this is the convention John is hinting at (and assuming it isn't a bluff),  Mu won't be a standalone booth.  Someone else will be showing it as part of their "toolset." Any guesses?

Here is the exhibitor search:
http://www.imts.com/visitor/exdir/

Jenoptik has OEM IR modules, maybe them?

 

Offline firewalker

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1116 on: September 10, 2014, 04:21:09 am »
On August 26th the promised to show working prototypes in two weeks! :D

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1117 on: September 10, 2014, 09:37:56 am »
Could it be?

Quote

Hello Everyone,

Yesterday we began showing the camera at the International Machine Tool Show here in Chicago.  While it may not be the most obvious place for us to first show the camera; it's here in our backyard, the show gets 100,000 attendees, and we were invited by a generous host to show within their booth.  Today one of our Contributors came across us and hopefully he'll post his reaction and the couple of photos he took.  As to images off the camera, we'll get some posted here in the next couple of days, it's a show packed with interesting opportunities for impressive thermal images.   While we show the camera throughout the weeklong event, the continuing effort to finalize our production process and define a delivery schedule goes on.   More to follow this week.

Thank you for the continuing support. 

John McGrath
 

Offline kentuckyEE

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1118 on: September 10, 2014, 09:59:32 am »
I'm at IMTS... Rather, back at the hotel. I found John McGrath with an actual working prototype. He's with a vendor that analyzes spindle vibration. The name escapes me, but it's on my phone (which is recharging. To prove it, John took a picture of me in the viewfinder of the camera with my iphone.  I'll write up more later after I go eat dinner. Interestingly enough, he's a heck of a nice guy and didn't elude my questions. Lots more details to come. Feel free to ask me questions and I'll try to remember what he said.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1119 on: September 10, 2014, 10:30:00 am »
A most interesting development. can't wait to see some actual pictures of the product. Why on earth did Mu not post some detailed pictures at the same time as exhibiting the product ? Does not seem like great marketing to me.

A key question I have that I do not really expect an answer to is..... what is the imaging sensor that Mu claimed was already freely available and being used in a most novel manner to achieve the price/performance breakthrough of the Mu concept ? I can imagine cheaper optics but a cheap micro-bolometer based technology still seems some way off, as FLIR has shown with its $250 LEPTON Core (MOQ of 1000)

If Mu really do have an answer to the cheap thermal imaging core, as they claimed, it may be interesting times in the marketplace....BUT somehow I have my doubts about the prospect of a bargain basement 160x120 pixel imaging sensor.

What was the frame rate of the demo unit please ?

Did you hear any noise coming from it whilst in use....clicking of a calibration shutter, or whirring of a motor driving a shutter wheel ?

I await news with great interest

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 10:34:14 am by Aurora »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1120 on: September 10, 2014, 10:41:51 am »
A key to great marketing is not to spill the beans out too early or you get crushed before you even start even if it makes you look bad for the people on the know (or expecting to know).

We'll see how it develops, they probably went through all that money (not much really) developing but with a product that might change things and hopefully they have enough left to fulfill the orders.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1121 on: September 10, 2014, 10:45:07 am »
Can somebody with access to post to the IGG comments page please post the information from kentuckyEE there, somebody wants to go and independently verify it, but they can't find them at the show.

(Aside... kentuckyEE is a new user with 2 posts,  maybe a quick IP check from admins/mods might be sensible, considering this is quite an unexpected development)
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Offline kentuckyEE

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1122 on: September 10, 2014, 11:55:30 am »
Hey guys,

The booth is GTI Spindle Technology Inc., which is N-7433 in the North building of McCormick place. I understand having only 2 posts is a little weird, so I'll do my best to give you what I know to verify. In my next post, I'll write up my account of what went down with pics. That will be in a few minutes after I get a parking issue sorted out.

Matt

 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1123 on: September 10, 2014, 12:56:41 pm »
I'm at IMTS... Rather, back at the hotel. I found John McGrath with an actual working prototype. He's with a vendor that analyzes spindle vibration. The name escapes me, but it's on my phone (which is recharging. To prove it, John took a picture of me in the viewfinder of the camera with my iphone.  I'll write up more later after I go eat dinner. Interestingly enough, he's a heck of a nice guy and didn't elude my questions. Lots more details to come. Feel free to ask me questions and I'll try to remember what he said.

No offense to you intended at all, but most people are "really nice guys" in person.  How could he be anything but demure when he's over a year behind after having taken hundreds of thousands of $$ from people and provided absolutely nothing in return - not even information.

Anyway, I am really really curious to hear your report on the show.  What sensor are they using?  Given that Mike Harrison cobbled together a working imager in just a few days, is it possible they are 'cheating' by using a Lepton core in an obfuscating housing, or did you actually get to see a custom PCB they made and another brand of image sensor? 

What questions did you ask and what were their responses?

It's curious they are at IMTS, especially in the booth of a spindle balancing company.  IMTS is (duh) a machine tool show and being in the machine tool market and having gone to that show numerous times, I would think there would be very little in the way of buyers or people interested in TIC's there.  Booth space isn't exactly unobtainable (or even that expensive) at IMTS, so I can't imagine why they would be piggybacking on someone else's booth.  Not to mention spindle balancing would seem to have pretty much nothing at all to do with TIC's... so it makes me think it's a friend of John's or something - and they just went to be able to say they were at a major show.  Sort of like showing up outside the stadium and listening to the crowd and then saying you were at the concert.  >:D
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline kentuckyEE

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #1124 on: September 10, 2014, 01:05:52 pm »
Hello again,

Here's my impression:

The good:
I feel that there is a working thermal camera here. One camera. I did not see others. GTI Spindle may have been showing off some other models that weren't his.

The less good:
John said the abundance of wifi access points was interfering with the imager (not the wifi link). There is noise in the picture and a very noticeable delay in video.  See my "selfie" that showed the dudes in the background. Whether that is an EMC issue only remains to be seen.
The case is kind of tacked together much like you'd see in a prototype. He's working on something with the molding, but I forget exactly what he said.

Interesting:
He says that the camera will have different skus for different lenses.
He says he expects delivery before the end of the year.
The software appears in working order.
He was not expecting someone from IGG to track him down. Do a google search for "GTI spindle" "Facebook" "Mu optics".

Also:
I heard no whirring.... But this is a machine tool show and there's all sorts of noise. It does have a shutter that opens and closes. I am unclear on FPS. John said something about 35fps... But I had no idea on if that was from the imager or just saved video.
Nice guy is truly objective, I understand. Perhaps a better word is approachable.


What you want to see:
Http://imgur.com/a/9Tk4d

BUT WAIT:
I'll be going back to the show tomorrow. If I can, I'll post video of it working. The delay between images makes my pics seem weird and I think I might be able to better illustrate my point.

I'm no master investigator by any means. 3 years as a EE doesn't make me much more than an enthusiastic kid. I encourage anyone in the area to go take a look. I may have missed something crucial.

Matt

PS: pm me if you're in Chicago tomorrow. I'd love to go with another person to talk to John again.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 01:16:23 pm by kentuckyEE »
 


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