Author Topic: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?  (Read 380202 times)

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Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2013, 02:19:03 am »
I'd better get my scam started quickly then.
I can make solar panels out of Tofu and they are 103% efficient and fully bio-degradable.
They will save our small blue panet and all shit like that.
Watch out for my campaign on Indiediscogogo.
 8)
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2013, 03:11:49 am »
Charles McGrath posted an announcement 1 hour ago
Part 1 of 2

Hello all,

I’ll address a few things in this email and hopefully have another update again before the end of the week.

We’ve been watching the comments for +1USB, and so far we’ve counted just over 150 comments on that subject (out of 1920 contributors), with 72% asking for USB support, 21% for both, 6% for WiFi only, and 1% doesn’t care (just get it done).

We like WiFi for it’s nearly universal support and lack of cables; and it’s very cool taking the camera into places without the phone, but we certainly do understand that a physical line is sometimes best, and it looks like many of you have uses in mind where that is the case, some of which are very, very interesting. When we made the decision to switch to Wifi it removed a few headaches related to USB support across multiple platforms. We have a few meetings later this week to discuss this and what our final approach (approaches?) will be. For those of you who need USB we really are paying attention, because you were all early supporters we want to have a workable solution for each of you. (I really wish that Bluetooth was a viable option. Oh well, we work with what we can right?).

 
Charles McGrath posted an announcement 1 hour ago
Part 2 of 2

There is some talk in the comments about us not being on the roster for the Hardware show. This is true, we pulled off of the show floor because we realized that it would be more economical for us to meet with the big buyers privately rather than show the imager on the convention floor. We’re associated with people who can get the right people into the suite with us and they believe the booth to be more of distraction than anything else. So…we’re still aimed at showing the camera there. We also did this for competitive and confidendiatilty reasons.

Let me take a minute to talk in general terms about development status. We started this project knowing that thermography could be such a useful tool for so many more people than currently use it. And so we knew that an affordable thermal camera would be huge. We set off doing our research, noting where the big expenses were, and coming up with dozens of different ideas. Some of these ideas were genuinely very clever, although most ultimately didn’t pan out. In the end, we have a great plan and we’re nearing the finish line to a great camera. We’ve mentioned that we’ve experimented with a few different detectors. Well, we’re very happy with the one we’ve settled with. Abe is in the other room right now tweaking bias voltages and the like to get the best picture possible in the field. Turns out it’s just as hard to make the picture look great as it is just to get a picture in the first place. We’ve got a new case about to be machined (hopefully with proper and final mounts and clips). The next PCB we order should pretty much be the one that goes into the first cameras we ship…baring any big changes. I’m off to poke around the Internet for a new battery because I’m just not satisfied with the pack that we’ve been working with so far. I imagine that you all would be happy with as many milliamp hours as you can get, right?

Late in the month of May still seems good. The longest lead-time we have on any part is a few weeks and suppliers are at the ready.

We’re making steady progress, a video is coming very soon. We’re working late into the evenings and weekends. You’ll be very happy with what you see.

Cheers

 
 :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2013, 03:30:02 am »
We have a few meetings later this week to discuss this and what our final approach (approaches?) will be. For those of you who need USB we really are paying attention, because you were all early supporters we want to have a workable solution for each of you.

Translation:
We have no hardware that's even close to the final thing, if anything at all.
And as such we don't have a hope in hell of meeting any deadline.

Quote
There is some talk in the comments about us not being on the roster for the Hardware show. This is true, we pulled off of the show floor because we realized that it would be more economical for us to meet with the big buyers privately rather than show the imager on the convention floor. We’re associated with people who can get the right people into the suite with us and they believe the booth to be more of distraction than anything else. So…we’re still aimed at showing the camera there. We also did this for competitive and confidendiatilty reasons.

Translation:
We don't have any physical hardware to show. Nothing, zilch, narda.
We don't want anyone to come see us.
This gives us the opportunity to be a quick visitor at the show, and snap some sneaky photos to show we were there.

Quote
Let me take a minute to talk in general terms about development status. We started this project knowing that thermography could be such a useful tool for so many more people than currently use it. And so we knew that an affordable thermal camera would be huge. We set off doing our research, noting where the big expenses were, and coming up with dozens of different ideas. Some of these ideas were genuinely very clever, although most ultimately didn’t pan out. In the end, we have a great plan and we’re nearing the finish line to a great camera. We’ve mentioned that we’ve experimented with a few different detectors. Well, we’re very happy with the one we’ve settled with. Abe is in the other room right now tweaking bias voltages and the like to get the best picture possible in the field. Turns out it’s just as hard to make the picture look great as it is just to get a picture in the first place.

That would mean that you have some hardware to actually extract and display the data. Why don't you show it?

Quote
We’ve got a new case about to be machined (hopefully with proper and final mounts and clips). The next PCB we order should pretty much be the one that goes into the first cameras we ship…baring any big changes.

Like the USB/WiFi option you are still haggling over?
"The next order" means you have previous PCB orders, why don't you show the boards?

Quote
I’m off to poke around the Internet for a new battery because I’m just not satisfied with the pack that we’ve been working with so far. I imagine that you all would be happy with as many milliamp hours as you can get, right?
Late in the month of May still seems good. The longest lead-time we have on any part is a few weeks and suppliers are at the ready.

What about your assembler?
You clearly have no idea how long it takes to produce stuff like this.
No mention of a pre-production run?

Quote
We’re making steady progress, a video is coming very soon. We’re working late into the evenings and weekends. You’ll be very happy with what you see.

My bet is they won't show any real hardware.
This guy is selling snake oil at this point.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2013, 03:31:16 am »
It is clear that Kickstarter at least is simply saving up a warchest right now, waiting for the inevitable legal test that is coming. There are many obvious things that need to be done to improve not only their vetting process but also the general usability of their service. They are making a ton of revenue on these high-profile projects yet refuse to invest a dime into those improvements. They certainly aren't willing to invest in additional manpower needed to adequately vet the submissions.

The changes to the rules (which only apply to two project categories - design and technology) were rather half-assed attempts to make it look like they cared. But those rules have been enforced haphazardly. Many projects blatantly ignore those rules (especially the "no multiple-item rewards" rule) while others are heavily curtailed. And the way they have handled the enforcement has been reprehensible. On one project this past week, they simply deleted all reward levels that offered multiple item quantities without any warning to the project owner or backers. Backers discovered it when Amazon sent them a funding cancellation email with no explanation. That setback cost that project over $50,000 in backing. Had it not been on track to greatly exceed the funding goal, it might have been enough to cause project failure. That's a huge problem because many of these high-volume projects start lining up their supply chain prior to conclusion of funding (sometimes securing short term loans to do it) in order to get started with production more quickly. If they don't, then they also have to wait several weeks for Kickstarter to release the funds to them (while backers get angry).

IndieGoGo is another beast entirely. Their system seems set up to actively make it easier than it needs to be for project creators to abuse it. The ability to communicate with project creators is extremely limited - low character limits on comments and direct messages. The whole "flexible funding" thing that sends cash to the creators whether any funding goals are met or not. And the quite soft legal language that basically says "you're on your own but feel free to use our posted terms of service if you litigate against a project owner".

The project owner has not responded yet to my request for a refund. I'll give it some time (another request or two) before I initiate a transaction dispute with PayPal (they give you 45 days to initiate it).

It could very well be that the project owner knows about that 45 day time limit (all payments go through paypal), and is banking on enough contributors holding out hope for long enough that he can ignore them.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2013, 03:39:55 am »
The project owner has not responded yet to my request for a refund. I'll give it some time (another request or two) before I initiate a transaction dispute with PayPal (they give you 45 days to initiate it).
It could very well be that the project owner knows about that 45 day time limit (all payments go through paypal), and is banking on enough contributors holding out hope for long enough that he can ignore them.

I loved the "I'll post you a cheque on Monday" bit  :-DD

You should post a comment link and point people toward this thread for some extra opinion  ;D
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2013, 04:08:15 am »
Hi group,
 
I suspect that this probably falls into the too good to true category.

I can understand that the market leaders in this area, FLIR and Fluke would not want to 'poison the well' that they are both reaping large profits from. Some competition has appeared recently but nobody seems interested in driving price points down.

It is a stretch that a startup can challenge the market leaders without a significantly different technology.

Background and advice for people looking for a thermal camera.

I use a Fluke IR camera in my job. For it to be useful for electronics you need the following features:

1) You need to short minimum focus distance. This is because you need to be able to focus on a circuit board at around 6 inches (15cm).

2) You need enough resolution to be able to see a hot 0603 resistor.

3) When I did my study I found that increased pixel count did not give higher resolution. The higher pixel count gives a larger field of view. The reason for this is that cameras have the same lens.

4) The lens has to be transparent to IR. The camera I use has a Germanium lens.

5) Temperature range has to be over 100C. Some of the building inspection cameras have a maximum temperature of 100C. For electronics a 150C might be needed.

I chose a Fluke Ti9 and I am very happy with it.


Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2013, 04:32:00 am »
Martin King said 4 hours ago
BTW John offered me a refund but said there was no mechanism for doing a credit card refund through Indigogo (don’t know if this is correct or not) so he would send a cheque Monday morning, I replied saying that a USD cheque is no good to me as I can’t pay it into a UK bank, I sent a follow up email saying Paypal would be better and have heard nothing since yet he’s generally been very quick on replying to my other critical posts here.

The cheque is in the mail and I promise I won't splooge in your mouth!
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2013, 07:47:52 am »
I haven't had so much fun since granny caught her tit in the mangle :-DD

Craig Shih said 3 minutes ago
Competitive and confidentiality reasons? You don’t have to show off how a device works at the show, they aren’t going to get anything out of you that you haven’t posted in public.
PS: Injection molding is much more economical for cases. Try 3D printing your prototypes.
Your supplier lead times are pretty amazing compared to the rest of the industry.
I don’t want a refund, I would love for this project to take off, but these updates are not confidence inspiring.


Craig Shih said 16 minutes ago
Economical? I’ve attended NHS as a exhibitor before, and it’s not that expensive. You’ve raised over a quarter million dollars, I hope you have a spare employee to leave at the booth. The show isn’t just a day, too. Whatever meetings you’ve had with big buyers shouldn’t take a week, and if so, shouldn’t have been done at a show. It’s not like you’re an international business where it’s expensive to fly in.


IraqiGeek said 41 minutes ago
John, I explicitly sent a message asking whether the $150 perk camera had USB, and you replied that it did. Now you’re saying it won’t have USB. You didn’t even mention if WiFi will support infrastructure, no talk about how it will be configured. The camera specs were changed AT THE LAST MOMENT. I had my doubts about this project from the very beginning. Now I’m sorry, but I want my money back. Whatever it is you are trying to sell now doesn’t suit my needs anymore
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2013, 08:21:09 am »
Quote
Charles McGrath posted an announcement 1 hour ago
 We have a few meetings later this week to discuss this and what our final approach (approaches?) will be.
......
 The next PCB we order should pretty much be the one that goes into the first cameras we ship
So you don't know your final interface approach but you have near-complete PCBs? :-DD
Quote
We’ve mentioned that we’ve experimented with a few different detectors. Well, we’re very happy with the one we’ve settled with.
At this price level I highly doubt there are "a few different detectors" to choose from.
Quote

Abe is in the other room right now tweaking bias voltages and the like to get the best picture possible in the field.

..and still you claim to have a production-ready PCB
Quote
Turns out it’s just as hard to make the picture look great
Look good..? It's a measuring device, not a camera - either it's acccurate or it isn't.
Must be hard without expensive Germanium optics, which is what makes TICs expensive.
Quote
We’ve got a new case about to be machined (hopefully with proper and final mounts and clips).
So you have no mould tooling and yet claiming to be shipping in May? :-DD
Quote
I’m off to poke around the Internet for a new battery because I’m just not satisfied with the pack that we’ve been working with so far. I imagine that you all would be happy with as many milliamp hours as you can get, right?
You don't have a final battery, but you think you have finalised the case design, and you are claiming to be shipping May. :-DD :-DD
Quote
Late in the month of May still seems good. The longest lead-time we have on any part is a few weeks and suppliers are at the ready.
Dude, it's Mid April, so you really think you can get parts on "a few weeks leadtime", manufacture, test and package in six weeks - you are clearly delusional :palm:
Quote
We’re making steady progress, a video is coming very soon.
Which I predict will still fail to show any real hardware. 
If they had anything real, you could have shown something, ANYTHING. They have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that they are credible. If it was a pure scam they would already have taken the money and disappeared, so my money is on incompetence and self-delusion at this stage.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2013, 08:30:59 am »
Now now, don't be harsh :-BROKE
I'm sure they are lovely people, why don't we just give them THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT?

(They get the benefit of the munny, I doubt they'll ever produce anything)  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2013, 12:47:47 pm »
I'll see you
 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD

and I'll raise you
 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2013, 06:46:16 pm »
I am very impressed with the choreography of our little yellow 'men'  ;D


The good old times


I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2013, 07:18:54 pm »
The points "mikeselectricalstuff" brought up illustrate the problem in differentiating between "deluded but with good intents" and "just a scammer". 

I design and manufacture our own products - we have CNC machines in the shop, I do the electronic design, we have a software guy, and a machining guy, etc.  And even for relatively simple products, the development cycle is a minimum of a few months, often longer.  And we don't need to deal with the BS of meetings and managerial approvals... not to mention I put in 60+ hours a week every week.  I've also developed a streamlined process where I get prototype PCB's in 4-5 days, and because we do all our own in-house machining, I can get a prototype housing made in a day or two.

And even with all that, it takes me 2-3 months to get something simple done, what with the required testing, software, hardware, and all the details.  Not to mention supplier days... I have a large stock of standard parts we use, and there are lots of times a part doesn't work or fit and I need to make changes... or need to get a new piece of test gear or probe or fixture or such.  Each of those delays consume a week or so in the R&D process.

People unfamiliar with the process will wonder why it takes so long.  They look at a PCB and figure "that doesn't look complicated".  They look at a housing and think "that only took a day to make".  They don't see the stack of 10 PCB's you went through to get there, or the hours spent tweaking the design, etc. 

People who are unfamiliar with the process of bring a complex product to market, but who represent themselves as experienced enough without accepting the risk of their naivete... and who willingly pass that risk along to naive investors - IMO, are scammers. 

It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2013, 12:21:50 am »
Interesting. I was given a full refund via PayPal with no fuss in less than 20 hours. The communication from muoptics was professional and cordial.

I'm inclined to think that they are not intentionally scamming anyone. Otherwise it wouldn't have been nearly so easy to get a refund.

I do still think they are in way over their heads when it comes to manufacturing and delivery. Logistics just aren't on their side. I wouldn't expect to see any product deliveries until late fall at the earliest.

If they succeed though in bringing this to market, and assuming it is functional enough for the price point, I would probably buy a retail unit from them for simple things like improving insulation efficiency in my home etc.
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2013, 01:03:05 am »
Majority of contributors aren't asking for their money back YET.

A wide variety of investment vehicles or strategies, typically legitimate, have become the basis of Ponzi schemes. For instance, Allen Stanford used bank certificates of deposit to defraud tens of thousands of people. Certificates of deposit are usually low-risk and insured instruments, but the Stanford CDs were fraudulent.
Initially the promoter will make amazing promises to attract more investors, and to lure current investors into putting in additional money. Other investors begin to participate, leading to a cascade effect. The "return" to the investors that get suspicious is paid out of the investments of new entrants, and not out of profits.
Often the amazing promises encourage investors to leave their money in the scheme, with the result that the promoter does not have to pay out very much to investors; he simply has to show silly videos showing how nice the gizmo is going to be. This maintains the deception that the scheme is a real business start up.

 |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O :-- :palm:
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #65 on: April 18, 2013, 01:05:08 am »
That's interesting. Were you one of the people complaining publicly?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2013, 01:32:54 am »
No, I had made a couple of comments but nothing overly critical. Yesterday I sent one direct message to the project owner (John) requesting a refund, but IGG's communication tools are bloody awful and there is no "outbox" or "sent messages" to verify that it actually went through. So after no reply a bit later in the day, I posted one short and specific comment to the public activity stream asking for confirmation. I don't think I was being a nuisance: http://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/2848291/activities (obviously, my assessment of the project's chances of success have changed since most of those comments were made)

This morning I had an email from "Marcus Deely" (one of the project members):

Quote
Hello,
Looking through the comments I noticed that contacted John about receiving a refund from your contribution. Your refund should be sent out today via PayPal. I want to assure you that we are working hard to get our product out and we are saddened to hear that you are not longer interested. Thank you for your original contribution.
Marcus

A few hours later I had a refund notice from PayPal and verified that it had already been credited back to me.


Fairly painless and uneventful.
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2013, 02:34:04 am »
Marcus Deely is a VIDEO MAKER!
About 56,300 results (0.22 seconds)
Search Results
Marcus Deely's Porfolio
marcusdeely.com/Marcus Deely. Digital Portfolio. All; Design; Coding; Motion Graphics. waitingforthebus. Waiting For The Bus. Sqipp App. Ragecam Pro App. Genius Squad ...
Marcus Deely on Vimeo
vimeo.com/marcusdeelyMarcus Deely is a member of Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.
Marcus Deely (MarcusDeely) on Twitter
https://twitter.com/MarcusDeelyThe latest from Marcus Deely (@MarcusDeely). Chicago.
Marcus Deely - Google+
https://plus.google.com/108747186069299288010

by Marcus Deely
Jan 18, 2013 – Marcus Deely - Graphic Design, Animation, Videography - DePaul University - Target Corporation - Marcus Theatres Menomonee Falls ...


Funny, in the video they posted earlier he was claiming to be an expert programmer did work for Nasa etc
Do they have any electronic engineers?
I wonder if they have worked out the grid bias issue yet.
What are they using? A freaking triode?

 |O :-- :palm: :scared:.................. :=\
 

Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2013, 02:46:35 am »

Whoops....that was the other guy Abe.
Previous experience of the "design team"........ an app to order a pizza
Like WOW  :-DD
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2013, 03:34:19 am »
Interesting. I was given a full refund via PayPal with no fuss in less than 20 hours. The communication from muoptics was professional and cordial.

I'm inclined to think that they are not intentionally scamming anyone. Otherwise it wouldn't have been nearly so easy to get a refund.

I do still think they are in way over their heads when it comes to manufacturing and delivery. Logistics just aren't on their side. I wouldn't expect to see any product deliveries until late fall at the earliest.

If they succeed though in bringing this to market, and assuming it is functional enough for the price point, I would probably buy a retail unit from them for simple things like improving insulation efficiency in my home etc.

I don't mean to suggest that there is no company, or that these people formulated an idea to grab money and run.  But I liken it to a penny stock.  All hype, no substance.  These guys act precisely like penny stock pushers... lots of promises, and using every trick in the book to prevent people asking questions and keep people hooked.  There is a reason these tactics are universally used amongst that ilk - because they work.  As evidenced by the huge amount of money these guys have taken in, while never showing *anything* at all - absolutely nothing.

As I said earlier, I design products for a living, and I know what's involved, and I know that if these guys were even 3 months from a final product, they would have tons of stuff they could show.  The secrecy angle is just another part of the penny stock scam that these guys are running.

The difficulty lies in proving they knew (or should have known) they could not deliver, but there is no recourse with Indiegogo or Kickstarter.  It's almost the perfect scam, because each individual invests so little that it's not worth suing.  But collectively, the take can be huge.

It will be interesting to watch this train wreck evolve over the coming months... watch the IGG site for the Kubler Ross model to start playing out soon ;)
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Offline MacAttak

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2013, 04:54:36 am »
There is some recourse. When you launch a project on either site, you accept a contract that commits you to delivery of the rewards/perks promised in the campaign, or to provide a full refund. As far as I know, this is a binding contract for any US-based company who accepts money from US-based backers (it's probably not nearly as strongly protective of non-US backers, or as binding to non-US creators). But it should be good enough for recovery via arbitration or lawsuit in most cases. It just takes the right set of backers to get shafted before the process gets tested. So far nobody has pressed it.

I could see a whole cottage industry of specialized law practices springing up who focus on organizing legal actions against fraudulent crowdfunding projects. Especially now that some of these projects are raking in HUGE amounts of cash. There's a good bit of money on the table there - a siren's call to lawyers.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2013, 05:00:59 am »
There is some recourse. When you launch a project on either site, you accept a contract that commits you to delivery of the rewards/perks promised in the campaign, or to provide a full refund. As far as I know, this is a binding contract for any US-based company who accepts money from US-based backers (it's probably not nearly as strongly protective of non-US backers, or as binding to non-US creators). But it should be good enough for recovery via arbitration or lawsuit in most cases. It just takes the right set of backers to get shafted before the process gets tested. So far nobody has pressed it.

I could see a whole cottage industry of specialized law practices springing up who focus on organizing legal actions against fraudulent crowdfunding projects. Especially now that some of these projects are raking in HUGE amounts of cash. There's a good bit of money on the table there - a siren's call to lawyers.

I'm guessing that contract just codifies what consumer law already says - i.e. if you take money from someone under the promise of delivery of something, you must deliver.  The problem though is that if a project creator lists their new widget at $200/ea and gets 2,500 backers... that's half a million dollars.  But each person is only out $250, and the costs of a lawsuit would be well in advance of that.  Plus, if anyone actually sued the project creator just refunds them and moves to dismiss the case.  Only if the feds get involved does it really transcend a civil dispute.

Hope you will keep us updated about this one - it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #72 on: April 18, 2013, 05:21:23 am »
I don't see how it's much different to mail fraud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_wire_fraud
Wire or mail is covered but no mention of internet.
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Offline Keef Wivanef

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #73 on: April 18, 2013, 05:24:22 am »
Hope they have some lovely cell mates
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2013, 07:46:47 am »

Funny, in the video they posted earlier he was claiming to be an expert programmer did work for Nasa etc[/quote]
I think the phrase was something like "worked on projects funded by NASA" which is so vague it could be anything. Just more waffle.
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