Author Topic: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?  (Read 485813 times)

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Offline mamalala

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #850 on: March 11, 2014, 03:35:58 am »
I guess they have ran out of budget or will to continue. But they keep refunding money, as somebody said earlier, this is a strage pattern for a scam and a strange pattern for a legit failed project, I mean, one cannot be so naive to continue with this project having so little time and funds, or so insisting when lying or so willing to refund when scamming.

Look up "pyramid scheme". Yes, they refund money. But we simply don't know how much, compared to how much was funded in the first place. Keep in mind that there is a psychological thing at work as well. Lot's of people who got scammed will not talk about that in public, due to the "shame factor". So, while we see quite some folks getting theit money back, you can be sure that there are a lot of folks who did not, and won't tell about that.

Which, in the end, may still make the whole thing profitable to the perpetrators.

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline mamalala

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #851 on: March 11, 2014, 03:39:00 am »
But then, out of the blue, FLIR came up with the FLIR-One thingy. And all of a sudden they _really_ went "away". One has to wonder (not so much, actually) why that is....

I do hope they don't just disappear, it's been a fun ride (for those not invested) watching and wondering how and what type of BS the next update will contain.
To most of the technical audience here it was obvious this project just wasn't going to happen from the get-go, so most have been waiting for the inevitable finale...

I agree, watching such train wrecks happen surely is a fun thing ;)

But as the saying goes, all good thing must come to an end...

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #852 on: March 11, 2014, 07:17:16 am »
Epic comment on IGG:

Quote
If you’re wife was “pregnant” for 3 years, I’m betting you’d probably assume she just got fat and isn’t going to produce a “product”

Same with Mu…

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #853 on: March 11, 2014, 10:32:36 am »
Hi,

I too miss the updates. The last one:

Hello All,

It's been a good week, we've gotten great responses from all of our suppliers as they, and we, are redoubling our effort to get the MuOptics camera to market as fast as possible. Everyone is either hard at work or sleeping. Weekends are workdays. Things are progressing rapidly and we are in the stretch run. We're on the schedule as mentioned in the previous update. We're trully gaining a sense of pride in what we are accomplishing. Hang in there, it's right around the corner.

Cheers,

-MuOptics


Translation


It's been a good week

They only work on the camera on the weekend. See below. so what happens during the week is irrelevant. ;D



Everyone is either hard at work or sleeping

Well it is clear now that they were sleeping  ;D


Weekends are workdays


At best, we only work on the camera 2 days out of 7, and that is when we are not sleeping  ;D


You just have to read the updates carefully.


I wish everybody who applies for a refund gets one.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B


 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #854 on: March 17, 2014, 04:16:48 am »
This just in, hot off the press! Enjoy, grab some popcorn before you start

Quote
PART 1 of 4

Hello IndieGoGo Supporters,


As technology developers we have the advantage of seeing the fruits of our labor on a day-by-day basis in what has been a protracted journey.  This letter is our way of sharing our recent progress with you and also to begin to make amends for our past shortcomings in communications.

It's plain and clear:  WE SCREWED UP and underestimated the effort.  In this miscalculation, we missed our original deadlines to send you product.  Compounding this:  we have done a really bad job of keeping you up to date.  We are truly sorry and are presently addressing all the open issues.

First

Regarding communications: our updates will become more regular as we now approach the actual release of the product.

Mu Optics has as its mandate: to provide simple and logical thermal imagining technology to the consumer market.  We do this not via the traditional approach, but by marrying thermal imaging with smart devices.  By leveraging devices that have real processing power and great user interfaces:  we are able to lower the price while making its use both very simple and tremendously flexible.  As you might expect:  in order to do this, we have had to create a whole new approach to the technology.

As with any pioneering effort:  early missteps, while disappointing to us all, have shone a light on better paths.  Indeed:  our imager today is far more robust than when we first embarked on this journey.  We have also had had experiences where vendors supplied parts that simply did not live up to our expectations, or were unable to deliver their product in volume.  This was both unacceptable and time consuming.  As you know, the size of a market is driven by two principle factors:  pricing and demand.  When the former drops the latter climbs, and it is volume pricing and our belief that this kind of device can have a useful place in every toolbox that makes this product viable in the consumer space. 

With these teething pains predominantly behind us we understand that gain comes only with pain and these issues forced us to fundamentally rethink how we provide a superior product at a competitive price.  We've made many, many changes including bringing in critical new resource partners who are seasoned tech implementers.

PART 2 of 4

Last year saw the Mu team test multiple sensors and specialty lenses from various manufacturers, design and engineer a good deal of our own unique hardware; architect, write and re-write the software; experiment with dozens of attachment mechanisms as well as design a lens and shutter assembly which has taken considerable cost out of the camera, while at the same time adding functionality.  The team’s newest partner, our Industrial Design/ Mechanical Engineering lead is a perfect complement to the original team’s brilliant physics effort.  He has brought to market a myriad of high-technology and consumer products.  We are very close to the finish line.

While we have made missteps, we apologize, but more importantly we are also now being held to higher standards internally.  You'll see that going forward.  We'll update, at the least, every few weeks.

Here are some recent highlights:

Last month, after adopting and re-engineering the core electronics to take advantage of a terrific new sensor:  We achieved “First Heat” with this new sensor using our production electronics.  On achieving this milestone: we are greatly pleased to announce that our research stage for this product has come to a close and the actual product development is quickly proceeding.  It now appears we're on track to deliver cameras later this spring as we previously posted. 
The smartphone software has been nearly complete for some time now, and we are presently verifying the histographic content of images from the production electronics to move the system engineering into the “completed” category.  Because of the nature of the mobile marketplace:  it's our goal to ship our imager as both iPhone and Android ready.

PART 3 of 4

Initial cameras are being manufactured using what is called “bridge tooling” which is in-process now.  Once we receive first production articles of the electronics and the internal and housing parts, an initial run of “first article” imagers will be built and form our “Alpha” production samples, which will be purposed at field testing, evaluation and outside review.  Because these initial units are actually produced via a production process virtually identical to the final production process (not prototyping):  we expect the Alpha testing process to proceed rapidly.  This essential process will permit us to make any final adjustments to the housing elements, our firmware and of course our applications.  This testing and evaluation process will also allow us to begin to share with you the impressions of the camera from people outside of our company.

It is of significant note that after considerable winnowing we've selected our extended production team.  As the various custom components begin to roll off their respective production lines, our production team is as excited about our camera as are we. 


Our Infrared camera may be small:  but our goals are very big.  Because Mu Optics understands the importance of scaling this product beyond the limits of our walls:  our final assembly partner is an extremely capable domestic electronics contract manufacturer with deep experience in manufacturing highly technical products on a substantially automated line.  Also of importance to our team is the issue of corporate citizenship:  Mu Optics has leveraged the extremely talented but often maligned American manufacturing base.  Please understand that this was a more difficult step for us to take than to simply push the “offshore” (Easy) button, and it required a longer research schedule simply because the US model is that of “many specialist vendors” rather than “one jack-of-all-trades monolith”.  We strongly believe this will be of strategic benefit to Mu Optics as well as our customers in the future.

PART 4 of 4

Our contract manufacturer, located just outside Chicago, after populating the electronics will be focusing, calibrating and testing products using automated fixtures of our design prior to ultrasonic sealing of the product into its housing.

At that point, the camera with the Instruction Manual, calibration report and accessories will be boxed and palletized by the same contract manufacturer, then sent to our logistics partner for shipment to customers. 

As great as our technology is, there is no sensor on earth that can fully measure our appreciation for everyone’s support on this project, and we believe you will love what you see.


Warmest regards,

The entire MuOptics team
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #855 on: March 17, 2014, 04:29:05 am »
 
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 :palm:



Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #856 on: March 17, 2014, 04:46:15 am »
BravoV's post nailed it!
That is some of the finest bullshit known to human kind!  :clap:
STILL no proof of any working hardware, and STILL not even a prototype thermal image.

I have a theory about what's going on here though, and this update kind of confirms it.
The people running this are actually bots!, programmed to respond using a selection of development buzzwords randomly collected from the internet.
I must admit that they had me completely fooled  :-+
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #857 on: March 17, 2014, 08:41:51 am »
I don't know... They convinced me that everything is ok, with this last update.

 :blah: :blah: :blah:

Alexander.
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #858 on: March 17, 2014, 10:50:20 am »
of course everything is ok, they repent their sins! they lied to you before, but not now  no no
see, now we finally managed to get 'something' out of the electronics, our first 'heat' or whatever, here let me sho.. oh wait no, we arent gonna show it to you, you need to take our work for that :D

its like me telling you I did in fact fu$%$%@# your wife before, but its ok now, we are not seeing each other anymore promise! we can all be buddies again, right?  :-DD
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #859 on: March 17, 2014, 11:09:25 am »
Quote
We are truly sorry and are presently addressing all the open issues.

No they aren't. The only issue backers care about it is seeing something that works. Real hardware and an actual thermal image.

Quote
Regarding communications: our updates will become more regular as we now approach the actual release of the product.

Just like you promised before.

Quote
As with any pioneering effort:  early missteps, while disappointing to us all, have shone a light on better paths.  Indeed:  our imager today is far more robust than when we first embarked on this journey. 

So you have a robust thermal imager, great, that means it must be producing images, because, well, that's what thermal images do, and the only thing they do.
So why have you never shown a single image from any prototype including this new robust one?

Quote
With these teething pains predominantly behind us we understand that gain comes only with pain and these issues forced us to fundamentally rethink how we provide a superior product at a competitive price.  We've made many, many changes including bringing in critical new resource partners who are seasoned tech implementers.

Like who?

Quote
Last year saw the Mu team test multiple sensors and specialty lenses from various manufacturers, design and engineer a good deal of our own unique hardware; architect, write and re-write the software; experiment with dozens of attachment mechanisms as well as design a lens and shutter assembly which has taken considerable cost out of the camera, while at the same time adding functionality. 

Great. So where is the thermal image?

Quote
The team’s newest partner, our Industrial Design/ Mechanical Engineering lead is a perfect complement to the original team’s brilliant physics effort.  He has brought to market a myriad of high-technology and consumer products.  We are very close to the finish line.

Who is this person, and what products?
How do you know if your physics effort is brilliant if there is no thermal image from it? And if there is a thermal image, why haven't you shown it?

Quote
While we have made missteps, we apologize, but more importantly we are also now being held to higher standards internally.  You'll see that going forward.  We'll update, at the least, every few weeks.

That's very generous of you.

Quote
Here are some recent highlights:
Last month, after adopting and re-engineering the core electronics to take advantage of a terrific new sensor: 

So you chose an entirely new sensor last month. That presumably would screw up everything - electronics, firmware, form factor, optics matching, housing etc. Sounds like fairly big redesign.

Quote
We achieved “First Heat” with this new sensor using our production electronics.

That means you got an image from it, great, why not show it?

Quote
On achieving this milestone: we are greatly pleased to announce that our research stage for this product has come to a close and the actual product development is quickly proceeding.  It now appears we're on track to deliver cameras later this spring as we previously posted. 

Umm, you're not very experienced at this production thing are you? You just admitted you changed your sensor which impacts a lot of stuff, and that development has just started to proceed again. End of spring is mid June in the US right? didn't you previously say April?

Quote
The smartphone software has been nearly complete for some time now, and we are presently verifying the histographic content of images from the production electronics

So you DO have thermal images, great!, why don't you show them?

Quote
Initial cameras are being manufactured using what is called “bridge tooling” which is in-process now.  Once we receive first production articles of the electronics and the internal and housing parts, an initial run of “first article” imagers will be built and form our “Alpha” production samples, which will be purposed at field testing, evaluation and outside review.  Because these initial units are actually produced via a production process virtually identical to the final production process (not prototyping):  we expect the Alpha testing process to proceed rapidly.

Sorry, I lost count of the buzzwords.

Quote
This essential process will permit us to make any final adjustments to the housing elements, our firmware and of course our applications.  This testing and evaluation process will also allow us to begin to share with you the impressions of the camera from people outside of our company.

So you are admitting that you won't show anything until then? Even a thermal image?

Quote
Our contract manufacturer, located just outside Chicago, after populating the electronics will be focusing, calibrating and testing products using automated fixtures of our design prior to ultrasonic sealing of the product into its housing.

Doesn't sound hackable.

Quote
At that point, the camera with the Instruction Manual, calibration report and accessories will be boxed and palletized by the same contract manufacturer, then sent to our logistics partner for shipment to customers. 

Sounds like a long long way off...

Quote
As great as our technology is, there is no sensor on earth that can fully measure our appreciation for everyone’s support on this project, and we believe you will love what you see.

The only thing backers have seen in over a year is a small photo of prototype board that revealed almost nothing.
Your technology is a thermal imaging camera, and you have not shown a single thermal image from it. Sounds like your technology only exists on paper.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #860 on: March 17, 2014, 11:41:28 am »
Quote
As technology developers
You are not developers you're a bunch of amateurs
Quote
we have the advantage of seeing the fruits of our labor on a day-by-day basis in what has been a protracted journey. 
Pity nobody else has, which is why nobody believes a word you say.
Quote
we have done a really bad job of keeping you up to date.  We are truly sorry and are presently addressing all the open issues.
Until we see evidence of a real product and real images, you are not addressing any issues, just making yourselves look more stupid, if that is even possible
Quote

Regarding communications: our updates will become more regular
Quality, not quantity. An image or two is worth a million pages of your bullshit "updates"
Quote
Mu Optics has as its mandate: to provide simple and logical thermal imagining technolog
"Logical".... what exactly does that mean?
Quote
As with any pioneering effort:  early missteps, while disappointing to us all, have shone a light on better paths.  Indeed:  our imager today is far more robust than when we first embarked on this journey. 
"Robust"? Working would be a start
Quote
  We've made many, many changes including bringing in critical new resource partners who are seasoned tech implementers.
Who  would that be? And how long did it take them to stop laughing?
Quote
Last month, after adopting and re-engineering the core electronics to take advantage of a terrific new sensor:  We achieved “First Heat” with this new sensor using our production electronics. 
..and still no images. We just don't believe a word you say any more
Quote

 Please understand that this was a more difficult step for us to take than to simply push the “offshore” (Easy) button,

The very fact that you think that would be "easy" just reinforces how completely clueless you are
Quote
and it required a longer research schedule simply because the US model is that of “many specialist vendors” rather than “one jack-of-all-trades monolith”.  We strongly believe this will be of strategic benefit to Mu Optics as well as our customers in the future.
My buzzwoord-bulshittometer just hit 11  :bullshit:
Quote
As great as our technology is, there is no sensor on earth that can fully measure our appreciation for everyone’s support on this project, and we believe you will love what you see.
There is no sensor on earth that can measure the infinitessimaly small levels of your remaining credibility
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #861 on: March 17, 2014, 11:48:30 am »
There is no sensor on earth that can measure the infinitessimaly small levels of your remaining credibility

It's so small that quantum effects have taken over. The Mu Optics camera can be thought of as both alive and dead.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #862 on: March 17, 2014, 11:53:20 am »
I predict that Flir One will be on general sale before we see even a picture if real hardware from MuOptics
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Offline firewalker

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #863 on: March 17, 2014, 12:40:11 pm »
We should do a contest.

"Write the next Mu update and win an Mu Thermal Imager".

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #864 on: March 17, 2014, 12:43:52 pm »
We should do a contest.
"Write the next Mu update and win an Mu Thermal Imager".

I have one in stock, along with several air guitars which I'll throw in for free ;D
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #865 on: March 17, 2014, 04:21:30 pm »
What baffles me most are the people who respond to these updates with comments like "Thanks for the update, glad to hear you are not compromising quality for speed" and such.  I wonder if it's some form of Stockholm syndrome at play with people lapping up the smallest dribble of information as an unnecessary kindness from Mu?

The other group that make me laugh are the ones who say "If I don't hear something from you by Friday, I will be requesting a refund!".  LOL! Come on - does anyone think Mu gives a shit what any of the backers think or feel any obligation whatsoever to deliver any news or info?  I can't figure out those folk.
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Offline mrflibble

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #866 on: March 17, 2014, 04:35:43 pm »
Man, that was a fun read! Bravo sir!  :-DD

Although he could have done a bit more to highlight the hamster issue...


I predict that Flir One will be on general sale before we see even a picture if real hardware from MuOptics
Well of course, but that's rather easy. ;) Neverevereverever eeeevah versus regular release according to Flir's roadmap and developed by people with a clue.

And WTF is bridge tooling? *google* Ah, related to injection molding. Oooh, I see what you did there. So clever and non-transparent. Dropping in "bridge tooling", thus implying that you have dealt with that stage of injection molding, and also totally not pulling this stuff out of an ill-lighted orifice.
 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #867 on: March 17, 2014, 04:39:08 pm »
These guy's aren't building a thermal camera, they're going for a writing Oscar! [once they've released their CGI full length feature film of course... after-all that IS what they do]
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #868 on: March 17, 2014, 04:47:01 pm »
What baffles me most are the people who respond to these updates with comments like "Thanks for the update, glad to hear you are not compromising quality for speed" and such.  I wonder if it's some form of Stockholm syndrome at play with people lapping up the smallest dribble of information as an unnecessary kindness from Mu?

I'll bet they have quite a few shills/sock puppets.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 04:54:48 pm by edavid »
 

Offline andtfoot

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #869 on: March 17, 2014, 10:06:47 pm »
They just found an exciting new source of thermal sensors and need to redesign from scratch... starting with a new prototype of the user interface (or other such irrelevant aspect).

Quote from: muOptics
Last month, after adopting and re-engineering the core electronics to take advantage of a terrific new sensor...

Quote from: muOptics
...will permit us to make any final adjustments to the housing elements, our firmware and of course our applications.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #870 on: March 17, 2014, 11:06:46 pm »
It seems that Mu are deleting comments. I for one noticed this. It was over 2000 comments before the new update, and now not even 2000 with all the new comments.
Someone said their comments about getting their refund and buying the Flir was deleted. By who? Well, he says it wasn't him, so that only leaves Mu who have the ability to do that. It of course would be IGG themselves.
 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #871 on: March 18, 2014, 01:42:14 am »
I noticed this and commented on it quite some time back.  Quite shady indeed.
 

Offline dexters_lab

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #872 on: March 18, 2014, 10:24:25 am »
well i am sure most backers know it's happening... i mean this thread is ranked higher than their IGG page on google :-DD

Offline Phroon

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #873 on: March 19, 2014, 11:21:14 am »
The thing I've noticed is how much the writer of these updates talks about the case.  There's rarely any details about the electronics, but every third update is "We have the production enclosure almost ready!  Turns out it's going to have to be made of plastic!"  :palm:
 

Offline FrankenPC

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #874 on: March 19, 2014, 04:07:25 pm »
<= sucker

I bought into it.  I figured they had a line on some new Chinese solid state IR imager on the cheap.  And well...Flir One proved that I was probably right.

Regardless...I know my money is down the drain.  Yes, I demanded a refund.  No I didn't get it.

I still receive those idiotic status updates.  We all know that you can display various aspects of development while still retaining intellectual property secrecy.  But so what?  If that device were actually real and shipped, it would be torn apart in about 24 hours and dissected by a pro (probably right here).  The "secret" wouldn't be much of a secret before long.

Only an idiot wouldn't know that.  Or a con man.
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