Author Topic: Microturbine  (Read 5709 times)

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Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Microturbine
« on: March 11, 2024, 04:24:04 am »
Hi ALL.

We would like to open a campaign to develop a microturbine for charging mobile phones

Like this one


What do we need to get started?
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2024, 04:50:50 am »
Skills?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2024, 05:22:28 am »
Electronics engineers, electricians engineers.
But it's not that.
We have the know-how.
We can order anyone to make a plastic structure and put it our know-how there.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 05:24:27 am by Serg2000 »
 

Offline abeyer

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2024, 05:24:38 am »
We have the know-how.

Then why are you here asking what you need?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2024, 05:36:27 am »
We have the know-how.

Then why are you here asking what you need?
I didn't ask what was needed for this.
I asked what it would take to start a campaign.

Does anyone here have experience?
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2024, 05:54:22 am »
We have the know-how.

Then why are you here asking what you need?
I didn't ask what was needed for this.
I asked what it would take to start a campaign.

Does anyone here have experience?
I actually bet this would be a decent place to find a DM for your D&D Campaign :)  Good luck!
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2024, 06:47:52 am »
So many fantastic ways to market it like strap it to your e-bike but first make sure it has a flashing LED like this one :-DD Extra useful when you are carrying 10+kg of batteries too.....



Given the variability of 'wind' and in particular smooth stable wind from one direction without a decent length pole the idea while possible is impractical. There seems to be a 'new' idea to charge a widget every month that will be awesome, just remember if it kind of is someone was there first and will likely do it cheaper.
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Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2024, 12:17:36 pm »
So we are the first with our know-how and it will be cheaper with us.
Just tell me where and what button to press to start the campaign.
Do u know that ?
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2024, 12:21:10 pm »
So we are the first with our know-how and it will be cheaper with us.
Just tell me where and what button to press to start the campaign.
Do u know that ?

you are joking, right?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2024, 12:31:17 pm »
No.
We never messed with this.
We don’t know where to start and wanted to hear the experience of someone who did it. How to do this better?
This is not the only project we have and we want to launch several.
Is this possible?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2024, 07:18:59 am »
Yeah, it seems we to have figured out how to start.
The boss asked me to create a start page on Indiegogo for one of our projects.
Has anyone used this platform?
Can you give any useful advice?
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2024, 07:27:16 am »
Yeah, it seems we to have figured out how to start.
The boss asked me to create a start page on Indiegogo for one of our projects.
Has anyone used this platform?
Can you give any useful advice?

1: Indiegogo is responsible for so many scams and unfulfilled 'products' over time with 'backers' (not customers because that is not guaranteed or even a requirement) left out of pocket.
2: The fact you are here in public asking how to go about it shows you are secondly fundamentally unqualified to execute 'the boss's request' and put your name to it.

Suggestion is find a job you are better qualified and have the skills to do.
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Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2024, 07:40:56 am »
Yeah, it seems we to have figured out how to start.
The boss asked me to create a start page on Indiegogo for one of our projects.
Has anyone used this platform?
Can you give any useful advice?

1: Indiegogo is responsible for so many scams and unfulfilled 'products' over time with 'backers' (not customers because that is not guaranteed or even a requirement) left out of pocket.
2: The fact you are here in public asking how to go about it shows you are secondly fundamentally unqualified to execute 'the boss's request' and put your name to it.

Suggestion is find a job you are better qualified and have the skills to do.

Thanks for the answer.

1. Everyone is responsible.  Including the governments of the countries that spend your money.

2. I’m not asking how to do this, I’m asking for advice from those who have worked with this.
In the absence of advice, I’ll figure it out myself, faster than you.
 

Offline Coordonnée_chromatique

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2024, 08:22:46 am »
Could you describle the energy flows of your solution with some few simple maths please ?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 08:25:24 am by Coordonnée_chromatique »
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2024, 08:46:18 am »
Could you describle the energy flows of your solution with some few simple maths please ?
I don't specialize in this, but it seems to me that everything is quite simple here

1. propeller with a diameter of 0.15 m and an area of 0.018 m^2

2. water speed 3 m/s

3. power 80 watts

4. for 10 hours 1 kWh

error 15%

enough ?
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2024, 09:05:41 am »
I don't specialize in this, but it seems to me that everything is quite simple here

1. propeller with a diameter of 0.15 m and an area of 0.018 m^2

2. water speed 3 m/s

3. power 80 watts

4. for 10 hours 1 kWh

error 15%

enough ?
Whoops, we didn't know you were making a water turbine.    To efficiently extract energy from an unconstrained axial turbine in an incompressible fluid like water you need blades shaped like a boat propeller rather than an aeroplane propeller, and a lot more blade area relative to the swept area.

Also, immersed generators are problematic.  Maintaining a  watertight seal on a rotating shaft long-term, that will stand up to the abrasion of possibly silty water is *difficult*.   To avoid significant loss of energy, smooth flow over the generator body is desirable so it must be well streamlined.

Lastly 3m/s is nearly 11 km/h, a flow velocity that can typically only be found in mountain streams, rapids, and fast flowing floodwaters,  and it will typically be impractical or dangerous to camp close beside them while your USB device charges, and certainly not good for your phone to attempt to charge it in the splash zone!
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2024, 09:19:37 am »
They asked for math, I gave it.

3 m/s is much?
let's take 2.
power 24 watt
these are two 12 W LED bulbs
unlimited lighting for your campsite + smartphone charging during the day
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2024, 10:13:31 am »
Here is one of the projects of our team.
This is a Pre-Launch-Page
Just click on the pix

« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 10:15:03 am by Serg2000 »
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2024, 02:44:21 pm »
Here is one of the projects of our team.
This is a Pre-Launch-Page
Just click on the pix




Hydro is that you again?
 

Offline Coordonnée_chromatique

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2024, 03:40:49 pm »
They asked for math, I gave it.

Hello, a Pleton impeller would give a better efficiency even without injectors... but the real problem is the resistive torque of your generator, have you calculate it ?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 03:42:49 pm by Coordonnée_chromatique »
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2024, 04:16:38 pm »
They asked for math, I gave it.
Hello, a Pleton impeller would give a better efficiency even without injectors...
why do you think so ? this is wrong.
but even if this is so, then what prevents us from using this Pleton Pelton impeller?

Quote
but the real problem is the resistive torque of your generator, have you calculate it ?
resistive torque depends on the power supplied by the generator. we know it, we don’t need anything else.
why do you need resistive torque? where do you want to use it?
do you understand well what you are talking about?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2024, 04:21:06 pm »

Hydro is that you again?
pardon ?

yes, we develop microturbine. hydro micro turbine
 

Offline Coordonnée_chromatique

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2024, 04:37:23 pm »
do you understand well what you are talking about?

No, i don't have this ability.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2024, 09:37:57 pm »
I don't specialize in this, but it seems to me that everything is quite simple here
1. propeller with a diameter of 0.15 m and an area of 0.018 m^2
2. water speed 3 m/s
3. power 80 watts
4. for 10 hours 1 kWh
error 15%
enough ?
Whoops, we didn't know you were making a water turbine.    To efficiently extract energy from an unconstrained axial turbine in an incompressible fluid like water you need blades shaped like a boat propeller rather than an aeroplane propeller, and a lot more blade area relative to the swept area.

Also, immersed generators are problematic.  Maintaining a  watertight seal on a rotating shaft long-term, that will stand up to the abrasion of possibly silty water is *difficult*.   To avoid significant loss of energy, smooth flow over the generator body is desirable so it must be well streamlined.

Lastly 3m/s is nearly 11 km/h, a flow velocity that can typically only be found in mountain streams, rapids, and fast flowing floodwaters,  and it will typically be impractical or dangerous to camp close beside them while your USB device charges, and certainly not good for your phone to attempt to charge it in the splash zone!

WTF?  Why are you going into technical details?  He said:

..
We have the know-how.
..

It's almost like you don't trust him!?  Just set up his Indigogo already! :)
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2024, 11:22:30 pm »

It's almost like you don't trust him!?  Just set up his Indigogo already! :)


It was already setup the day before this thread was created.  :palm:

Technically the owner has the background to make this work in the hydrological sense. But with as far as I can see zero background in volume manufacturing  :-//

The real question is why should this forum get used to assist in or promote an Indiegogo campaign given the terrible history of fail on that platform?
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2024, 11:54:11 pm »

It's almost like you don't trust him!?  Just set up his Indigogo already! :)


It was already setup the day before this thread was created.  :palm:
...

.... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/why-dont-we-make-use-of-water-wheels/?all

...Coincidence.....????
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2024, 12:00:06 am »
Serg has a legal non technical background while the other is a 'Technical' Nutter  :-DD
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Offline langwadt

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2024, 12:05:20 am »
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2024, 02:26:06 pm »
Updated
Here is one of the projects of our team.
This is a Pre-Launch-Page
Just click on the pix


 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2024, 04:18:28 pm »
Hey Sergey, interesting to see you back.

I am not sure whether it is acceptable on this forum to re-join under a different account name after you have been banned. You might want to seek approval from the admins, explaining why you consider this appropriate.
 
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Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2024, 03:08:58 am »
Hey Sergey, interesting to see you back.

I am not sure whether it is acceptable on this forum to re-join under a different account name after you have been banned. You might want to seek approval from the admins, explaining why you consider this appropriate.
Who you are ? Do we know each other ?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2024, 03:10:25 am »
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2024, 03:36:36 am »

Hydro is that you again?
pardon ?

He asked a very reasonable question. Considering you're the same human behind both accounts, do you want to look silly in front of everyone and pretend you're someone else, or are you going to admit that you created another account after you were banned? Decide carefully because my tolerance for games is low today.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2024, 03:46:22 am »

Hydro is that you again?
pardon ?

He asked a very reasonable question. Considering you're the same human behind both accounts, do you want to look silly in front of everyone and pretend you're someone else, or are you going to admit that you created another account after you were banned? Decide carefully because my tolerance for games is low today.

 :popcorn:
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2024, 06:07:06 am »
Hey Sergey, interesting to see you back.

I am not sure whether it is acceptable on this forum to re-join under a different account name after you have been banned. You might want to seek approval from the admins, explaining why you consider this appropriate.
Who you are ? Do we know each other ?

Just penpals from your earlier visit here as "Hydro"...

It's a step in the right direction that you now disclose your affiliation with ERG, rather than trying to act as an undercover claqueur. Like Halcyon, I would encourage you to be open about your background and intent.

In that spirit, could you clarify your location? You claim to be US-based, both in your forum profile and on Indiegogo -- but actually seem to be based in Uzbekistan?
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2024, 08:18:22 am »
Hey Sergey, interesting to see you back.

I am not sure whether it is acceptable on this forum to re-join under a different account name after you have been banned. You might want to seek approval from the admins, explaining why you consider this appropriate.
Who you are ? Do we know each other ?

Just penpals from your earlier visit here as "Hydro"...

It's a step in the right direction that you now disclose your affiliation with ERG, rather than trying to act as an undercover claqueur. Like Halcyon, I would encourage you to be open about your background and intent.

In that spirit, could you clarify your location? You claim to be US-based, both in your forum profile and on Indiegogo -- but actually seem to be based in Uzbekistan?

I don't know you. I don’t know your last name or first name.
If you corresponded with someone from our team, then obviously not with me.
And your statements look strange. If a Microsoft employee writes to you, will you be sure that Bill Gates is writing to you?

I am a resident of Uzbekistan (and another country), but I don’t always live in Uzbekistan and travel a lot.
On the forum, I wrote the country of location, because crowdfunding companies accept applications only from applicants from certain countries who have accounts in banks in these countries. Uzbekistan is not included in this list.

We have a US registered company from which the application is being submitted. That's why I put this flag up so that visitors won't have any questions about the legitimacy of submitting an application to kickstarter.

Have I answered your questions?
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2024, 09:20:36 am »
I don't know you. I don’t know your last name or first name.
If you corresponded with someone from our team, then obviously not with me.
And your statements look strange. If a Microsoft employee writes to you, will you be sure that Bill Gates is writing to you?

I don't think you need to know my name. In contrast to you, I am not running a crowdfunding campaign and pitching it here.

Since ERG is a tad smaller than Microsoft, I do indeed assume that "Serg" from ERG is Sergey Shevtsow, their "Chief Product Officer". If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me. And no, you and I have not corresponded via email or such; just discussed here on the forum when you were registered as Hydro. (Which you were, right? You have not commented on that yet.)

Thanks for the clarification regarding your location. I'll take your word for the US entity, and would hope that Indiegogo verifies such things. I never understood why those seeking funding on that platform don't have to disclose their company details to the audience of potential backers; but apparently that's how they work.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 09:28:40 am by ebastler »
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2024, 10:05:16 am »
I don't know you. I don’t know your last name or first name.
If you corresponded with someone from our team, then obviously not with me.
And your statements look strange. If a Microsoft employee writes to you, will you be sure that Bill Gates is writing to you?

I don't think you need to know my name. In contrast to you, I am not running a crowdfunding campaign and pitching it here.

Since ERG is a tad smaller than Microsoft, I do indeed assume that "Serg" from ERG is Sergey Shevtsow, their "Chief Product Officer". If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me. And no, you and I have not corresponded via email or such; just discussed here on the forum when you were registered as Hydro. (Which you were, right? You have not commented on that yet.)

Thanks for the clarification regarding your location. I'll take your word for the US entity, and would hope that Indiegogo verifies such things. I never understood why those seeking funding on that platform don't have to disclose their company details to the audience of potential backers; but apparently that's how they work.
If you want to correspond with me, then in any case, I need to know your name. If not, then we will not correspond.

ERGroup is much smaller than Microsoft, but has employees and volunteers. Don't you think that I myself translated the subtitles into Arabic, voiced the text of the video and did the accounting?

Yes, my name is Serg, but my last name is different, Sergey Shevtsow Shevtsov - CPO, I am a programmer, web designer

I don't know what you mean by Hydro. Has anyone registered under this nickname? Please clarify.

I don't care whether you take my word for it or not. I don't have to answer to you for this. Especially without knowing who is hiding behind this strange, meaningless nickname.

We do not seek funding on this platform.
We are looking for funding on the Kickstarter platform.
This platform is used for public opinion research, information and feedback. As far as I understand, this is what it is intended for.

In conclusion, I will say a proverb in our language. I don't know if the translation will be accurate, but try it yourself.
"Пул топилган квартиранинг калитини беришим керакми ?"
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2024, 10:14:17 am »
I don't know you. I don’t know your last name or first name.
If you corresponded with someone from our team, then obviously not with me.
And your statements look strange. If a Microsoft employee writes to you, will you be sure that Bill Gates is writing to you?

I don't think you need to know my name. In contrast to you, I am not running a crowdfunding campaign and pitching it here.

Since ERG is a tad smaller than Microsoft, I do indeed assume that "Serg" from ERG is Sergey Shevtsow, their "Chief Product Officer". If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me. And no, you and I have not corresponded via email or such; just discussed here on the forum when you were registered as Hydro. (Which you were, right? You have not commented on that yet.)

Thanks for the clarification regarding your location. I'll take your word for the US entity, and would hope that Indiegogo verifies such things. I never understood why those seeking funding on that platform don't have to disclose their company details to the audience of potential backers; but apparently that's how they work.
If you want to correspond with me, then in any case, I need to know your name. If not, then we will not correspond.

ERGroup is much smaller than Microsoft, but has employees and volunteers. Don't you think that I myself translated the subtitles into Arabic, voiced the text of the video and did the accounting?

Yes, my name is Serg, but my last name is different, Sergey Shevtsow Shevtsov - CPO, I am a programmer, web designer

I don't know what you mean by Hydro. Has anyone registered under this nickname? Please clarify.

I don't care whether you take my word for it or not. I don't have to answer to you for this. Especially without knowing who is hiding behind this strange, meaningless nickname.

We do not seek funding on this platform.
We are looking for funding on the Kickstarter platform.
This platform is used for public opinion research, information and feedback. As far as I understand, this is what it is intended for.

In conclusion, I will say a proverb in our language. I don't know if the translation will be accurate, but try it yourself.
"Пул топилган квартиранинг калитини беришим керакми ?"

ebastler makes sensible points. YTA.

If you want people to invest their money in your company, it is necessary for you to be open an honest - about the technology, its performance, its state of development, the company, the country, etc etc.

Adding an untranslateable/ambiuguous proverb in a language that gurgle (mis)identifies as Kyrgyz is not a good ending point.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2024, 10:19:39 am »
Considering you're the same human behind both accounts, do you want to look silly in front of everyone and pretend you're someone else, or are you going to admit that you created another account after you were banned? Decide carefully because my tolerance for games is low today.

I don't know what you mean by Hydro. Has anyone registered under this nickname? Please clarify.

Hmm... looks like you do want to play games?
I advise against it. Halcyon holds much better cards than you.
 

Online shapirus

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2024, 10:29:07 am »
You want money, you show a working prototype and demonstrate real world measurements. You post renders and buzzwords, you go fund yourself.
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2024, 10:36:27 am »
I don't know you. I don’t know your last name or first name.
If you corresponded with someone from our team, then obviously not with me.
And your statements look strange. If a Microsoft employee writes to you, will you be sure that Bill Gates is writing to you?

I don't think you need to know my name. In contrast to you, I am not running a crowdfunding campaign and pitching it here.

Since ERG is a tad smaller than Microsoft, I do indeed assume that "Serg" from ERG is Sergey Shevtsow, their "Chief Product Officer". If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me. And no, you and I have not corresponded via email or such; just discussed here on the forum when you were registered as Hydro. (Which you were, right? You have not commented on that yet.)

Thanks for the clarification regarding your location. I'll take your word for the US entity, and would hope that Indiegogo verifies such things. I never understood why those seeking funding on that platform don't have to disclose their company details to the audience of potential backers; but apparently that's how they work.
If you want to correspond with me, then in any case, I need to know your name. If not, then we will not correspond.

ERGroup is much smaller than Microsoft, but has employees and volunteers. Don't you think that I myself translated the subtitles into Arabic, voiced the text of the video and did the accounting?

Yes, my name is Serg, but my last name is different, Sergey Shevtsow Shevtsov - CPO, I am a programmer, web designer

I don't know what you mean by Hydro. Has anyone registered under this nickname? Please clarify.

I don't care whether you take my word for it or not. I don't have to answer to you for this. Especially without knowing who is hiding behind this strange, meaningless nickname.

We do not seek funding on this platform.
We are looking for funding on the Kickstarter platform.
This platform is used for public opinion research, information and feedback. As far as I understand, this is what it is intended for.

In conclusion, I will say a proverb in our language. I don't know if the translation will be accurate, but try it yourself.
"Пул топилган квартиранинг калитини беришим керакми ?"

ebastler makes sensible points. YTA.

If you want people to invest their money in your company, it is necessary for you to be open an honest - about the technology, its performance, its state of development, the company, the country, etc etc.

Adding an untranslateable/ambiuguous proverb in a language that gurgle (mis)identifies as Kyrgyz is not a good ending point.

I think that this is not the end point, but the starting point.

Instead of discussing the technology and asking questions about the technology  (but you were given a Pre-Launch-Page and a video)  you launched into some kind of personal showdown that I’m having a hard time understanding.

The details you are talking about are filled out in the complete kickstarter application. If you need to give a draft of it for feedback, then I will ask the boss if it is possible to post it on the forum.

If you have questions, ask.
I will answer those that I can answer, and I will send others to our specialists.
If you need to calculate the area of microturbine blades and its power, then I can do it.

....identifies as Kyrgyz
Try Uzbek
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 10:47:09 am by Serg2000 »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2024, 10:52:08 am »
You need to understand that Indigogo is notoriously used by people looking to defraud people of their money in a way that is legally not considered fraud. There have been many ridicolous projects on there that have turned out to be nothing in the end. The "company" uses the money to pay it's "employees" but their project is either never going to work or was never going to work. Often the products are a rehash of an existing technology and nothing new but claiming some secret ingredient that makes them an innovation.

Legally this sort of "investment" does not have to give the investor anything back and if the "company" fails then the money is certainly lost. There is no legal come back on the "company" taking the money. This makes crowdfunding an easy target for fraudsters as the whole premise that this is a risky investment covers them when they take the money and run. Usually they do not literally do that as that may have legal implications so instead they spend the money that is effectively donated to "the company" to pay it's "employees": themselves to make a show of doing R&D etc but in the end this can fail, the "employees" got paid for some years to mess about on a non project and the money is all "spent" and the "company" abandons it's efforts. That is of course if they do not do more "funding" rounds possibly for "new ideas" and so it goes on.

That is the background with which anyone here will approach your "company". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, where is yours?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 10:54:18 am by Simon »
 
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Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2024, 11:15:17 am »
It's clear. Thanks for the detailed explanations.

They require a detailed answer.
I won't have time today. And I need some advice.
Can you give me until tomorrow?

In the meantime, you can watch the Pre-Launch-Page
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/microturbine/msg5387063/#msg5387063

and video
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/microturbine/msg5392496/#msg5392496

There are already answers to a lot of things.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 11:25:43 am by Serg2000 »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2024, 12:13:29 pm »
It's clear. Thanks for the detailed explanations.

They require a detailed answer.
I won't have time today. And I need some advice.
Can you give me until tomorrow?

In the meantime, you can watch the Pre-Launch-Page
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/microturbine/msg5387063/#msg5387063
and video
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/microturbine/msg5392496/#msg5392496

There are already answers to a lot of things.

Not in that video there aren't.

It is stock footage of windmills (etc), "hooray" advertising slogans, cartoons, and zero technical claims with any substance. Classic example "80% more efficient than existing similar devices". That statement could be satisfied if your device generates 2µW rather than 1µW.

Don't forget that we are engineers, and that means a standard part of our everyday job is to assess what isn't being said, and to weed out advertising bullshit. That's why lawyers (allegedly) don't like selecting engineers for juries :)

Can I suggest that in the near future you add your device and campaign to this thread.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2024, 12:37:27 pm »
It's clear. Thanks for the detailed explanations.

They require a detailed answer.
I won't have time today. And I need some advice.
Can you give me until tomorrow?

In the meantime, you can watch the Pre-Launch-Page
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/microturbine/msg5387063/#msg5387063
and video
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/microturbine/msg5392496/#msg5392496

There are already answers to a lot of things.

Not in that video there aren't.

It is stock footage of windmills (etc), "hooray" advertising slogans, cartoons, and zero technical claims with any substance. Classic example "80% more efficient than existing similar devices". That statement could be satisfied if your device generates 2µW rather than 1µW.

Don't forget that we are engineers, and that means a standard part of our everyday job is to assess what isn't being said, and to weed out advertising bullshit. That's why lawyers (allegedly) don't like selecting engineers for juries :)

There are answers to some questions there, you just don't see them.
You see neither questions nor answers.
Perhaps precisely because you are engineers.
In addition to engineering issues, there are also social, environmental, political, etc. issues.

There really are no answers to engineering questions there. And no video is intended for this.
This is called a "promotional video."

We will definitely return to engineering issues.


I didn't quite understand this phrase.
Quote
Can I suggest that in the near future you add your device and campaign to this thread.

What does "add your device" mean? Should I bring a device weighing 3 tons or post all the drawings here?

What does "add campaign" mean? The campaign has not yet been launched, but is just getting ready. If you need a draft, I'll check with the boss, as I said.
 

Online shapirus

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2024, 12:41:44 pm »
Talk is cheap. Show us the numbers. Every project like this is considered BS until numbers are presented. Demonstration of a working prototype is also a requirement.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2024, 12:58:31 pm »
[...] you launched into some kind of personal showdown that I’m having a hard time understanding.

Let me try to help you understand... This topic has a history here. You (or, for the sake of the argument, let's say "someone") registered as "Hydro" a couple of months ago, presented the same technology, and also looked for "feedback". Hydro took the unusual approach of hiding a lot of facts he wanted feedback on, and generously dishing out insults along the way. While it was amusing on some level, it also caused a lot of aggravation.

We would like to know why we can expect better this time. Is this new incarnation of ERG going to be civil, sincere and open?

You are not off to a great start with this "who the heck is Hydro?" approach. We can all recognize writing styles; moderators can also compare IP addresses and presumably other user fingerprints. Halcyon, who is a moderator here, has already confirmed that you seem to be the same person as Hydro.

If you level with us now, you may still be able to turn this around.
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2024, 12:59:04 pm »
Talk is cheap. Show us the numbers. Every project like this is considered BS until numbers are presented. Demonstration of a working prototype is also a requirement.
So we don’t take money from anyone here and they don’t demand it from us.
This is a forum.

Numbers are not an indicator either. The numbers for a thermonuclear reactor are huge, and 70 years are just numbers. Where is the result?

Have you filled out an application for Kickstarter? Have you filled out applications at all? For some grants.
Do you know what the criteria are?

When I send the application here, there are numbers, calculations, and scientific justification.
Be patient.
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2024, 01:08:27 pm »
[...] you launched into some kind of personal showdown that I’m having a hard time understanding.

Let me try to help you understand... This topic has a history here. You (or, for the sake of the argument, let's say "someone") registered as "Hydro" a couple of months ago, presented the same technology, and also looked for "feedback". Hydro took the unusual approach of hiding a lot of facts he wanted feedback on, and generously dishing out insults along the way. While it was amusing on some level, it also caused a lot of aggravation.

We would like to know why we can expect better this time. Is this new incarnation of ERG going to be civil, sincere and open?

You are not off to a great start with this "who the heck is Hydro?" approach. We can all recognize writing styles; moderators can also compare IP addresses and presumably other user fingerprints. Halcyon, who is a moderator here, has already confirmed that you seem to be the same person as Hydro.

If you level with us now, you may still be able to turn this around.

I can also send you my DNA and blood type.

Or will we talk about the substance of the topic?

I said just as the boss will approve posting a draft of the Kickstarter application on the forums, ask questions.
Well, or you can now, based on the information you have.
I will answer as best as I can.
I can’t, I’ll send it to specialists.

Quote
You (or, for the sake of the argument, let's say "someone") registered as "Hydro" a couple of months ago, presented the same technology, and also looked for "feedback"

Where is it ? May I see it ?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 01:15:14 pm by Serg2000 »
 

Online shapirus

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2024, 01:13:39 pm »
All right, so nothing but BS so far.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2024, 01:28:30 pm »
Quote
You (or, for the sake of the argument, let's say "someone") registered as "Hydro" a couple of months ago, presented the same technology, and also looked for "feedback"

Where is it ? May I see it ?

Oh, now you have convinced me that it's not you and you have never seen that thread before.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/
There was another one in the Crowd Funding section, but I think that got deleted entirely.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2024, 01:47:02 pm »
A water turbine to charge cell phones? Really?  :wtf:
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2024, 02:07:37 pm »
[...] you launched into some kind of personal showdown that I’m having a hard time understanding.

Let me try to help you understand... This topic has a history here. You (or, for the sake of the argument, let's say "someone") registered as "Hydro" a couple of months ago, presented the same technology, and also looked for "feedback". Hydro took the unusual approach of hiding a lot of facts he wanted feedback on, and generously dishing out insults along the way. While it was amusing on some level, it also caused a lot of aggravation.

We would like to know why we can expect better this time. Is this new incarnation of ERG going to be civil, sincere and open?

You are not off to a great start with this "who the heck is Hydro?" approach. We can all recognize writing styles; moderators can also compare IP addresses and presumably other user fingerprints. Halcyon, who is a moderator here, has already confirmed that you seem to be the same person as Hydro.

If you level with us now, you may still be able to turn this around.

Based on his current responses, he won't be able to turn it around.

Bad starting continuing points: bluster, not answering questions, and trying to deflect conversations away from those questions.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2024, 02:33:11 pm »
Based on his current responses, he won't be able to turn it around.
Bad starting continuing points: bluster, not answering questions, and trying to deflect conversations away from those questions.

Let's see what Halcyon thinks once he checks back in. It seems that he has looked into these two user accounts, and had specifically discouraged the behaviour we see now.
 

Offline Serg2000Topic starter

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2024, 02:46:13 pm »
Quote
You (or, for the sake of the argument, let's say "someone") registered as "Hydro" a couple of months ago, presented the same technology, and also looked for "feedback"

Where is it ? May I see it ?

Oh, now you have convinced me that it's not you and you have never seen that thread before.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/
There was another one in the Crowd Funding section, but I think that got deleted entirely.
i quickly looked at your link TL;DR - som kind of nonsense. Some kind of incomprehenible design that has nothing to do with ours.
i havn’t loked further yet, I don’t have time yet.
here is a link to tje draft aplication.
https://www.indiegogo.com/project/preview/157eeca6#/faq
there are links to articles somewere in the texts. you probably need to read them too.
if you have any questions, writ e them here, and when i’m free, ill come in and pick it up.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2024, 03:22:42 pm »
Quote
How much electricity does it produceat a current flow of 1 m/s, 2m/s and so on?
Standard free-flow turbines are efficient only with water flow speeds of 2 m/s and higher. At a speed of 1 m/s, their efficiency decreases eightfold! Our turbine has high efficiency in watercourses slower than 2 m/s. More detailed information is available in the text

sounds like you are quoting fan laws there, or the laws that apply to actual turbines, sure they apply to these paddles too?

Quote
Will the turbine harm fish?
Our turbine does not harm the fauna of rivers as it does not completely block the channel and makes only about 20-30 rotations per minute, which is dozens of times slower than the propellers of boats, ships, or traditional hydro turbines. For fish, this turbine will be similar to a natural obstacle, such as a small island or a waterfall. On the contrary, our turbine will additionally aerate the water which is beneficial for river fauna and flora.

So you have not studied existing turbines like say the ones used in dams, they also do not harm fish, so why is yours special.

Quote
What is the power capacity of your turbine?
The approximate power capacity of the smallest unit is 3 kW. This allows the generation of more than 70 kWh of electricity per day, which is enough to power two to three large houses.In this case, only additional technical means are needed to compensate for peak loads.

be careful. Lots of dodgy products like to claim their 24 hour output for bigger numbers. the standard is kW, stick to established engineering standards, it looks less like you are running some scam then. Chinese wind turbines off amazon anyone?

shall I go on?
 

Offline abeyer

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2024, 05:35:37 pm »
i quickly looked at your link TL;DR - som kind of nonsense. Some kind of incomprehenible design that has nothing to do with ours.

 :-DD

So you're saying the fact that this site which is also called ERG, and which also used many of the same graphics as you do, and also does the same work, and was used by Hydro to post files here is all purely coincidence and his posts were nonsense but yours aren't?
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2024, 06:53:23 pm »
:-DD

So you're saying the fact that this site which is also called ERG, and which also used many of the same graphics as you do, and also does the same work, and was used by Hydro to post files here is all purely coincidence and his posts were nonsense but yours aren't?

And strangely, Hydro even shared his water-power videos using the same "ERG" Youtube channel which Sergey has now advertised. Hydro's old videos have been taken down, but the fact that he used that channel is still documented in the old thread.

Sergey, dear -- you had a chance to own up to the "Hydro" episode, but you have failed epically. How do you expect us to take you seriously and trust you now? Time to say goodbye and come back with a third account in a while...
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2024, 08:12:31 pm »
Wouldn't it be funny if this guy was actually a completely different guy who is really genuinely SUPER EXCITED ABOUT MICROTURBINES!!!!!!!!!!!!, and it's a just a coincidence that he showed up here when he did? 

Should I ask for his help on my MARS ROVER for MARS!!!!
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2024, 09:50:07 pm »
Wouldn't it be funny if this guy was actually a completely different guy who is really genuinely SUPER EXCITED ABOUT MICROTURBINES!!!!!!!!!!!!, and it's a just a coincidence that he showed up here when he did? 

Serg2000 is Hydro. Banned for not admitting it.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2024, 09:52:06 pm »
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2024, 11:05:39 pm »
Funny; I am staying at a friend’s home, and on the YT channel TechZone, there were these ERSTREAM water micro-turbines casually being shown as I was reading this thread!

They mentioned that the kickstart fundraiser was successful.
Among the suggested applications were charging cell phones on the woods.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2024, 11:42:12 pm »
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2024, 11:44:03 pm »
Wouldn't it be funny if this guy was actually a completely different guy who is really genuinely SUPER EXCITED ABOUT MICROTURBINES!!!!!!!!!!!!, and it's a just a coincidence that he showed up here when he did? 

Serg2000 is Hydro. Banned for not admitting it.

with that kind of games I'm sure the project is completely honest and trustworthy
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2024, 12:35:12 am »
The Principal does have some technical credibility on an ability to design this. BUT the overall premise was based on over inflated claims using unrealistic physical factors showing it was 'perfect' to release and market it on Indiegogo along with a false flag to compound the fake beginning.

Technically this will work but the reality is the power output 'claimed' was based on a near flood water flow speed, the simple reality is water flow much above 1/3 of this you would want anything being powered 10+m away minimum. If you do some basic calcs then at the initial claimed power and flow rate given then the actual wattage from a 150mm impeller is well within range and a sensible efficiency. Power output at a reduced velocity falls off dramatically at these lower speeds.

Practically the 'idea' is a flawed one as it only works in a very small subset of locations used by Campers and Water (kayak, canoe etc) users. This is going to be compounded in a stream situation with getting the turbine out into that stream and tethered in place and held above the bed without chopping down a forest or finding that miracle downed tree in just the right spot. Towing is behind you is just DUMB if you have ever done any flat water paddling the last thing to want is a Sea Anchor  :palm:

So this thread should stay in part as a warning to ANYONE thinking of backing a microturbine project or anything put up by the Principal Treschchalov German or his companies including ERGroup.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2024, 12:39:31 am »
I don't know you. I don’t know your last name or first name.

Good. The way it should be.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2024, 02:29:07 am »
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2024, 06:07:24 am »
Serg2000 is Hydro. Banned for not admitting it.

This is what I really like about the moderation here.  Nothing is ever perfect, and if one admits to an error, and promises to not repeat the problems in communication, they can get a second chance.  But, if they do not and just repeat by creating a new account, they get banned.  This is how it should be, because as humans, we make errors, but can also change how we interact with others.  (Using a pseudonym helps with that, because it reminds one that others do not react to your person, but to your output.  For some personality types like mine, this is very important.)

There is obviously something fishy about the project this thread is about, because of the games with the poster identity.  We cannot know whether it was intentional (as in trying to use EEVblog forums as a harebrained way to gain credibility for something the authors know is basically doomed to fail), or unintentional (someone so blinded by their own idea that they cannot communicate about it without sounding like a single-minded fraudster), but the whole scheme reeks of something rotten underneath.

There are lots of projects for small-scale damless hydropower, from waterwheels to underwater stream turbines.  The common factor in these is that only a tiny fraction of the energy in the water flow is harvested, so the stream/flow is minimally affected; plus the electricity output is very modest; overall, comparable to smallest wind turbines.  There is nothing wrong in starting a yet another project like that, but you do need to 1) do your background work diligently, to find out about similar past projects and their wins and failures, and 2) be open about all that.  None of this will be a huge commercial success, because the field –– hydropower in general –– is centuries old by now.  Everything easy or simple or obvious has been done again and again already; any successful product will have to combine the best features of both existing designs and existing manufacturing capabilities, to be successful.  The project here did not do either.

(I have done some online research on underwater flow turbines, but their major problem is that any debris or water plants tend to clog them up.  My root idea was a hubless turbine with permanent magnets at the tips, and the coils in the enclosing double funnel tube.  For something like charging your phone from a small stream for the night when camping/trekking it should work (with very limited electricity output!), as it ends up being cleaned daily, but for anything longer-term, they just are not suitable.  My own conclusion was that a portable wind turbine would perform much better, especially if you could prepend a hand-cranked gearbox in front for emergency charging.)
 

Offline abeyer

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2024, 12:43:43 am »
This is what I really like about the moderation here.  Nothing is ever perfect, and if one admits to an error, and promises to not repeat the problems in communication, they can get a second chance.
Hear, hear! I don't always agree 100%, but it's worth taking the chance to recognize the efforts of the mods. It's absolutely not an easy job, and their work is appreciated.

Using a pseudonym helps with that, because it reminds one that others do not react to your person, but to your output.  For some personality types like mine, this is very important.
I'm of mixed feelings on this... I get that it's helpful to you, and many others, but there also seem to be plenty of people who just take the opportunity to treat it as a "disposable" identity where they can say things they shouldn't and wouldn't otherwise, because they don't fear any permanent/IRL repercussions.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2024, 07:17:29 am »
Using a pseudonym helps with that, because it reminds one that others do not react to your person, but to your output.  For some personality types like mine, this is very important.
I'm of mixed feelings on this... I get that it's helpful to you, and many others, but there also seem to be plenty of people who just take the opportunity to treat it as a "disposable" identity where they can say things they shouldn't and wouldn't otherwise, because they don't fear any permanent/IRL repercussions.
True: that is the negative side.

Similar issue exists in real life too, when people see others as part of a business or machinery instead of people, and/or rely on anonymity to shield them from repercussions, when they do stuff they'd never do to people they know.  This shows up even statistically: in urban environments, certain types of crimes like theft increases superlinearly –– more thefts per person –– as the population size increases (source).

In my own case, and most others who I believe use pseudonyms in a similar, shall we say 'positive' way, are heavily invested in them; they are definitely not disposable.  Perhaps not as permanent as ones legal name, but definitely not disposable.  For me, it is the identifier for my output I want to use long-term.  For example, I've had my own matching .net domain for over a decade, in the hopes that someday, I would be ready to put some of the stuff I've created there for others to use and learn from.  As of mid-March 2024, after doing some quick web searches, all occurrences of 'Nominal Animal' as a username or pseudonym I could find, do all refer to myself.  Or specifically my own output, rather.

I bet this would be a very interesting research subject for someone interested in psychology/anthropology/history, because we can see the same in most creative industries across history, especially with performing artists.  I suppose it is how 'brand names' originated, too.
 

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Re: Microturbine
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2024, 08:00:03 am »
There is a reason people like to live in the countryside or villages. The only reason most don't is the price or the inconvenience as services are more limited and it's more isolating. But it's that isolation (low numbers of people) that bring people together.

We had no moderation at the start on here, or rather no official moderation. Some of us and I was one would wade into the rare arguments and try to get the two parties to be amicable as users. Yes it got harder as an official moderator as we stopped being that cozy community and were much bigger, the anonymity factor kicked in and the official establishment to hate come into being. I miss the days of it being a few hundred users and no moderators. We actively tried to get along as we all knew each other in the much smaller community that we were.
 
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