Author Topic: New Keyboard  (Read 1694 times)

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Offline metrologist

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New Keyboard
« on: September 05, 2018, 12:19:55 pm »
This kickstarter has made like 10x its goal. I guess there will probably not be much else to talk about, unless mechanical keyboards are of interest.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hexgears/hexgears-x-1-mechanical-keyboard?
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 12:39:04 pm »
Kaihua white keys, they are known for bad tactile feedback -- they might not be fired even after tactile feedback.
You really have to push them to the bottom. For light-touch typists, they are horrible.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 02:50:27 pm »
The reason I know when it's break time is due to all the gamer's banging on their keyboards.  :-DD

The site had some pretty graphs about that - not what I'd expect.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 10:04:38 pm »
Why would I want a keyboard designed by someone who does not understand touch typing?  If I wanted a modern laptop keyboard, I would buy a laptop.
 
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Offline metrologist

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 11:02:45 pm »
I hope it's not being considered that I am promoting that KB. Personally I've always been fine with whatever Dell KB came with the package. I rather like the standard KB I'm using now.

But, for a KS to have a goal of $35k and hit $350k in a 30 day funding period probably means there is some interest and that was kind of impressive to me, I mean for a keyboard.

I have not seen too many force curves for that sort of thing, so perhaps I'm easily amused by pretty graphs.

The info here is good because I did not know the switches they are promoting actually suck so bad, and I had not assessed their touch-key experience (or understanding).

They seemed to have achieved all of their design goals regardless of those suggested shortcomings.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2018, 11:08:24 pm »
They seemed to have achieved all of their design goals regardless of those suggested shortcomings.

Oh, they are good at making money, just like all other Chinese companies.
That company is a Chinese company disguised as a Western company for sure.

The company claims to be a German company with HQ in California, which suggests an off shore or brand provider (like RCA, Motorola).
The screenshot of LOL game play is in Simplified Chinese.
Kaihua is a Chinese key switch manufacturer, and they have "invested" in a few keyboard brands in the past.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline madires

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 11:33:37 pm »
There's a German manufacturer of excellent keyboards for quite a while. The brand is called CHERRY ;)
 

Offline edy

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 03:29:18 am »
The keyboard may be good, maybe not. I don't know. But without actually trying it out and feeling it first-hand I wouldn't plop down that kind of money for a keyboard. How many of the people who pledged money for it actually understand the typing experience and tactile sensation of typing on this type of keyboard, and how many just like the cool color LED feature and the "Macintosh" keyboard look?

I see lots of keyboards on Amazon ranging from $15-35, same for BestBuy and others. Yes there are some high-end ones like Microsoft Surface which are in the $100 range, similar to this X-1 keyboard. So this keyboard may actually be worth it if made from metal. However, I would want to test it out especially if it was using some new switches or something I have no familiarity with at all. I just don't have enough experience with various keyboard manufacturers but I do know that keyspacing and travel and "click" versus spongy landing do make a difference, as well as springy-ness of the keys returning. All of these I would want to feel first-hand before buying a keyboard.

How do you manage to judge whether the X-1 is worth it if you can't actually use it? Does anyone else buy keyboards without testing, or do you prefer hands-on demo at a store?  I see these guys tried to provide different key types and also graphs showing the reaction and some "layman" explanation.... Kudos to them for doing that! But I would still want to play around with a sample of each as I have no "calibration" mentally of what any of those mean at the moment.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 03:32:15 am by edy »
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Online BravoV

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 03:39:50 am »
When it comes to mechanical keyboard, real men use weapon grade one, look no further ... an IBM M.  >:D

... duck & run ...
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2018, 03:53:23 am »
I do not need to test it; just an accurate photograph is enough in this case.  If the keys are not cupped, then I am not interested.  This is not a keyboard for those who value human factors engineering and performance over style.

I regularly test keyboards when visiting the office supply or computer store.  Laptop keyboards have gotten much worse over the years in the quest for thinness and style.  Apple's desktop keyboards are not far behind.  I get some strange looks when testing them while looking into the distance; doesn't anybody touch type anymore?

Having finally given up on Logitech's wireless keyboards, my next one will probably be a wired mechanical from Redragon but there are lots of choices.  I just wish they would put the control key next to the A key where God intended it.  With a mechanical instead of laminated keyboard, at least I can take it apart and rewire that affront.
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 04:12:14 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift
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Offline David Hess

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 04:20:59 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift

Not according to my old mechanical keyboards and not according to the ones I modified. :)  PC, XT, and AT keyboards often used to have a switch on the back for swapping control and caps lock.

For keyboards which have a laminated design where I cannot jumper them inside easily, I swap the control and caps lock keys using the operating system remapping feature.  Either has lead to incidents with someone claiming my computer is broken.  Someone trying to bring up the Windows login screen is especially hilarious.
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2018, 04:23:29 am »
How do you manage to judge whether the X-1 is worth it if you can't actually use it? Does anyone else buy keyboards without testing, or do you prefer hands-on demo at a store?  I see these guys tried to provide different key types and also graphs showing the reaction and some "layman" explanation.... Kudos to them for doing that! But I would still want to play around with a sample of each as I have no "calibration" mentally of what any of those mean at the moment.

I agree, but somehow Amazon is doing so well without the touchy feels.
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2018, 04:30:24 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift

Not according to my old mechanical keyboards and not according to the ones I modified. :)  PC, XT, and AT keyboards often used to have a switch on the back for swapping control and caps lock.


I'm sorry, I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter, and has the capslock been there since qwerty was conceived?
 

Offline janoc

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2018, 04:40:37 am »
I'm sorry, I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter, and has the capslock been there since qwerty was conceived?

Not on computers. But mostly only the Unix oldtimers remember this because it used to be like that on some terminals. And the original PC XT:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_lock#Placement

The reason people swap this is because capslock is rarely used and the left control is used a lot more often so a more ergonomic positions for it helps.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2018, 04:43:12 am »
Kaihua white keys, they are known for bad tactile feedback -- they might not be fired even after tactile feedback.
You really have to push them to the bottom. For light-touch typists, they are horrible.

That would likely be the least of your problems with this keyboard. Touch typing on this would be a nightmare - cramped layout, keys not cupped, there is little to nothing between the keys that you can use as a reference to position your fingers - it is all flat.

It is a crappy gaming keyboard. For the same price you can get much better mechanical keyboards, even including the garish lighting.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 05:47:49 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift

Not according to my old mechanical keyboards and not according to the ones I modified. :)  PC, XT, and AT keyboards often used to have a switch on the back for swapping control and caps lock.

For keyboards which have a laminated design where I cannot jumper them inside easily, I swap the control and caps lock keys using the operating system remapping feature.  Either has lead to incidents with someone claiming my computer is broken.  Someone trying to bring up the Windows login screen is especially hilarious.

Literally the first thing I did with my new Thinkpad X1. Being a heavy hhkb user, Ctrl under shift just feels wrong.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 02:11:36 pm »
I'm sorry, I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter, and has the capslock been there since qwerty was conceived?

I learned on a typewriter at about the time that the IBM PC was first released.  Most of the early non-IBM PCs copied the layout of computer terminals which had the control key to the left of the A key and the caps lock key below the shift key for the reason janoc noted; the control key was more important.

Some IBM keyboards were one way and some were the other.  Many of the IBM clone keyboards had a switch on the back to support either configuration.

So if you were used to typewriter keyboards and the IBM Selectric, you wanted caps-lock in the typewriter position.  If you were a programmer or computer operator, you wanted control in the terminal position.
 

Offline NorthGuy

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 04:29:22 am »
I'm sorry, I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter, and has the capslock been there since qwerty was conceived?

On the typewriter, when you hold the Shift key, you actually physically lift and hold the caret, which is rather heavy. So the CapsLock (which actually locked the Shift key in the down position) was very useful. Moreover, it was very forgiving. If you accidentally hit "A" with the intention of depressing CapsLock, you would get a weak print, or may be not any print at all. Also, the locking action produced immediate tactile feedback, so you could feel when you pressed CapsLock and when you pressed Shift.

On the computer, there's no need for CapsLock at all. It may provide some benefits, but it is nothing compare to the harm caused when you hit it by accident. Same goes for the Insert button.

 

Offline metrologist

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 09:22:27 am »
That is bringing back some wee memories. I must now run out and use an old mechanical typewriter. I remember that now that you mention it. My stint there was brief, as a young-un...

edit, I'd never remember the key was called shift lock and was on the right side, no matter the torture... Mom's well.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 09:43:06 am by metrologist »
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 04:07:59 am »
Ah well, anyone thinking that this flat horror design could make a good tactile keyboard should definitely consult a doctor.
 :palm: :-DD
 

Offline sokoloff

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2018, 04:11:54 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift
Caps Lock belongs back in 1988, IMO.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2018, 07:33:27 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift
Caps Lock belongs back in 1988, IMO.

Have you never had to type all caps for style purposes or perhaps just angry AND HAVE TO SCREAM!!!? There are uses for caps lock. The only time control key is used anymore is for shortcut commands, but aside from ctrl-alt-delete, most of the shortcuts are already icons in the program.
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Offline sokoloff

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2018, 08:05:07 am »
Um...but that's where caps lock belongs! Control is usually under Lshift
Caps Lock belongs back in 1988, IMO.
Have you never had to type all caps for style purposes or perhaps just angry AND HAVE TO SCREAM!!!? There are uses for caps lock. The only time control key is used anymore is for shortcut commands, but aside from ctrl-alt-delete, most of the shortcuts are already icons in the program.
When coding and in most computing, I don't use the mouse at all. An icon is of very little use to me compared to a keyboard shortcut.

I almost never need all caps, but if I really need ALL CAPS in a section, I tend to type it and then go back and up-case the next word or region (M-u or M-upcase-region, respectively, in Emacs) or even a text-transform in CSS if it's for display purposes. (For "ALL CAPS" or "CSS" in this post, I just held the shift key, of course.)
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: New Keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 01:49:07 pm »
When coding and in most computing, I don't use the mouse at all. An icon is of very little use to me compared to a keyboard shortcut.

I keep looking for a good text editor which I can remap to use the Wordstar command keys.  They were much faster than using the mouse or dedicated arrow keys.  Of course they also rely on the control key being to the left of the A key.
 


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